Homosexuality vs. the ''Non-Gay Man''

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by gluon, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. gluon Banned Banned

    Messages:
    512
    Dr. Joseph Nicolosi should have his PhD removed from him for sheer professional foolery. In a recent thread, our resident mod Bells gave a link to this mans work on homosexuality, and i am stunned more by his conclusions on how he defined homosexuality, to rather his overall conclusions of his theory, whilst that is amazingly erreneous, even for a doctor of philosophy.

    Wiki states,

    ''The introduction summarized the main themes of the book. It defined non-gay homosexual men as men who, while sexually attracted to other men, reject a gay identity.''

    Ok, so what he seems to be saying, is that homosexuality in men is fine, but they are only homosexual if they practice it? Isn't that just another way of repressing ones feelings, whilst simultaneously lying about their true identities? I hardly see how (if a man) finds other men attractive but don't practice it how it doesn't make him a homosexual, or even a bisexual.

    This is ludricrous, and if that indeed is what is book starts off with, i would have been putting it in the bin.

    Further, as akin to the thread Bell posted this link in, he conlcudes homosexuality is,

    ''Nicolosi insisted that homosexuality is a developmental problem that often results from problems between a boy and his father, or between a boy and his male peers, leading to a failure to internalize male gender-identity. This disenfranchisement from males produces eroticization of maleness.''

    But wait, the best is yet to come. In reading what Nocolosi believed, he finally contradicts his own way of teaching,

    ''Nicolosi complained that people who do not value homosexuality as much as heterosexuality were deemed homophobic, and wrote that it was legitimate to place higher worth on heterosexuality within the context of one's own value system.''

    Wait a minute. Dr. Nicolosi, did you not define,

    ''non-gay homosexual men as men who, while sexually attracted to other men, reject a gay identity.''

    Well, it seems that you are telling men all over the world not to value their homosexual side if you are wanting them to reject their homosexual identity as being non-gay. For a doctor who believes to be non-gay could be a male who has homosexual feelings but does not practice them, is giving out the wrong impression in his book, as one can be left slightly lied to if he certainly believes its all down to placing an inequality between how we personally associate homosexuality and heterosexuality.

    Then, if one follows wiki, the doctor certainly believes it can be treated, as though as it were a mental illness:

    ''Nicolosi's second book was Healing Homosexuality: Case Stories of Reparative Therapy, published in 1993. Healing Homosexuality was written with the assistance of Lucy Freeman, who was mentioned on the title page but not listed on the cover as a co-author. Nicolosi wrote in the introduction that, "...in order to preserve the privacy of the men, each case history has been woven as a composite of several clients with similar issues. No case story fits any particular client in every detail. Any resemblance to any one particular individual is purely coincidental." Nicolosi explained that these men were representative of those he had encountered in the twelve years in which he treated over two hundred homosexual clients.

    Semi-fictionalized descriptions of the treatment of eight homosexual men (Albert, Tom, Father John, Charlie, Dan, Steve, Edward, and Roger) were given in the first through to the eighth chapters. The ninth chapter was Men Together - How Group Therapy Heals, an account of group therapy. In it Nicolosi wrote that group therapy could be a source of healthy male relationships. The tenth chapter was How Reparative Therapy Works, a general description of reparative therapy. In it Nicolosi wrote, "The basic premise of reparative therapy is that the majority of homosexual clients suffer from a syndrome of male gender-identity deficit. It is this internal sense of incompleteness of one's own maleness that is the essential foundation for homoerotic attraction. The causal rule of reparative therapy is: "gender identity determines sexual orientation." We eroticize what we are not identified with. The focus of treatment therefore is the full development of the client's masculine gender identity." [4]''

    Ok... hold on. Men can be cured of homosexual thoughts... is this the same as repressing it all together, like we found in that gem at the start?

    Too many men nowadays are quick to repress homosexuality. In fact, most men will go through their life saying to other people they are not gay or bisexual, whilst retaining a bit of dignity, but also unaware that they are ultimately lying to themselves in the process.

    These classes he holds are certainly 'A breading ground for such mentality in men', where other men justify these ways of thinking. So in a group, it is easier to express they have homosexual tendancies, but equally call each other straight men if they do not practice gay lifestyles.

    Is this all not pure stuipidity?
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Balerion Banned Banned

    Messages:
    8,596
    It is stupidity. He seems to segregate "gay" and "homosexual" as two different things, and actually uses "non-gay" to define men who pretend they aren't homosexual. That's simply not true. If you're homosexual, you're gay. That's the vernacular. If he wanted to say "non-practicing", that might be different.

    Also, the idea that homosexuality can be healed is ridiculous. It's not a disease, it's a sexuality.
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. Pronghorn Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    A bit off topic on the Nicolosi subject:

    Whilst I do not think that "homosexuality" is a disease (oh, no), or that same-sex desire stems from gender identity disorder (pffffft), one must remember that "gay" is a culture-specific label (identity, rather) that is not universal. There is a reason why some people cannot identify with it - therefore reject to use it on themselves. Remember that it is YOUR vernacular. The rest of the world does not always need to follow suit with what westerners do.

    Why even in the west, there are those who prefer "G0y" over "Gay"! I think we ought to respect their wishes to segregate themselves from an identity that is not their own.

    P.S. I capitalise "Gay" (sexual identity) because I still use gay (adjective) to mean happy. Ehehehe...
     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Pronghorn Registered Member

    Messages:
    15
    And I think the reason why some practitioners of "man-man loving" reject the term Gay is because it's associated with so many other unrelated things.
     
  8. Fraggle Rocker Staff Member

    Messages:
    24,690
    I'm not at all sure these men are reacting to connotations of the word "gay." I think that for one reason or another they're simply denying or suppressing their sexuality. Clearly for some or many of them this will have a lot to do with pressure, discrimination or ostracism by family, friends and society. But it also may be the result of things they learned about how to live back before they were sexually mature enough to know how they felt about sexuality--self-repression.

    I knew a guy who grew up in an utterly flaming Catholic community and he just went through his life doing all the things he had learned were right, including marriage and fatherhood. It wasn't until he was much older, divorced, living in a more liberal community, and acquainted with some gay men, that he began to realize what was inside him and began being and living sexually gay. This really is not only possible but sadly common.

    Other men go through that same revelation but for various reasons do not want to give up the life they've already made. That's not hard to understand either, especially if it includes a loving family, even if the other parent is not of the gender they'd choose if they had it to do over again. Love can certainly transcend absolutely anything.

    Lots of people--although anecdotally more women than men--have sex they don't enjoy with their spouses. It's just something they treat as a duty. Plenty of other people have sex rarely or even never. It's just not that difficult to imagine scenarios in which a man who is sexuality attracted to men would not identify himself as gay.

    And then there are the men like that senator and that governor, who have the established heterosexual life with wives and children, but sneak out to have gay sex for pleasure. They had plenty of reasons to not identify themselves as gay, for a major period in their life. You don't have to be a prominent politician to make the decision that you'd just rather not "come out" right now if ever.
    The most recent reports I've read suggested that homosexuality in men was neither hereditary nor environmental, but rather the result of conditions in utero. We'll have to wait for more research on that one.
    So it would seem.
    I don't know about that, but it's not very good science.
     

Share This Page