The word "Paki" debate...

[Muslim]

As a Pakistani, I've called myself a "Paki" when I've been around friends, to project some kind of a "gangster" image. But generally we consider anyone using the word Paki to be immature or uneducated. But in some contexts when your goofing around its cool, for example when I used to work, I had a black manger he used to call me a "Paki" I used to call him "nigger" it was totally cool, but that was an understanding between me and him, I wouldn't go around throwing that word to someone I was no familiar with.

The word Paki has generally been used in a derogatory term in England by white nationalists.

What's everyone else's take on this?

[S.A.M.]

I've never had an issue with it. I call my cousins Pakis

[draqon]

I call my Pakistani people, Pakistani people.

[electrafixtion]

As a Pakistani, I've called myself a "Paki" when I've been around friends, to project some kind of a "gangster" image. But generally we consider anyone using the word Paki to be immature or uneducated. But in some contexts when your goofing around its cool, for example when I used to work, I had a black manger he used to call me a "Paki" I used to call him "nigger" it was totally cool, but that was an understanding between me and him, I wouldn't go around throwing that word to someone I was no familiar with.

The word Paki has generally been used in a derogatory term in England by white nationalists.

What's everyone else's take on this?

What is wrong with Paki? It sure ain't sand nigger, hodgie, snake charmer, towelhead or camel jockey. Seems respectful to me but at the same time I would figure pretty much anyone would rather just be called their name.

[draqon]

paki sounds disrespectful to me.

its like calling Americans, Americs...retarted.

[Syzygys]

no, it is like calling Americans, Amis, I don't have a problems with either. It is a simple and logical shortened form of the too long word...

[cosmictraveler]

I try to know what peoples names are so that I can call them by their names not slang.

[draqon]

I try to know what peoples names are so that I can call them by their names not slang.

yes cosmictraveler, not long avatar name :rolleyes:.

From Draq to Cosm

[cosmictraveler]

Just call me COZ for short.:)

[electrafixtion]

paki sounds disrespectful to me.

its like calling Americans, Americs...retarted.

Honestly Dragon, if we were friends that hung out and that term offended you, I would make it a habit to cease using it. That's just called basic human respect.

But I would remind you that Czechoslovakian people are called Czechs, Polish people are Poles, Norwegian are Norse, Swedish are Sweds, etc.

Pakis could be a less than respectful term if someone were to say "hey, look at that stinking bunch of dirty pakis"

but if it was used for instance in the Olympics and a commentator states that the Pakis are really getting a great deal of medals this time, that's another story.

Point is, it seems kind of gray rather than being out and outright derogatory.

[Michael]

Because Pakistan has such a bad reputation, I think Paki will mostly be seen as derogatory. I know Japanese that call themselves Japs, but, mainly just imitating what someone from AU or Americas would say, so they think this must be disrespectful. I suppose because Japan is Nippon they also think Jap shows even more ignorance than normal - so they can call the last laugh there. I've been called Yank and Sepo, Yank is fine, but Sepo is a slander.

etc...

[Ghost_007]

The 'Paki' word is distasteful, derogatory and offensive. It is gutter language, just like the words ‘nigger’ and ‘chink’. From what I know, ‘paki’ is not considered offensive in the US. In the UK it is regularly used by racists, it is used in reference to all people from the Indian subcontinent and sometimes against those that follow the Islamic faith. Calling some Pakistani matey a ‘paki’ is akin to calling black person a ‘nigger’.


Because Pakistan has such a bad reputation, I think Paki will mostly be seen as derogatory.


Yeh right, just because you hate (and are obsessed with) Pakistan and its people doesn't mean everyone else hates them.

Anyway, tell us about America? what are the two things most associated with Americans? I'll tell you, obesity and stupidity.

[John99]

Nice finish there. After he lectures everyone about derogatory and offensive words.

Paki word is virtually unknown in U.S.

[Michael]

Most people in the western "civilized" world, see Pakistan negatively. One could say it's our fault, but, really, come on. India mind you, is fine, only Pakistan is seen negatively. So, of course, to refer to a person as a Paki would be an Insult.

Hell remember that Sinfield episode where the guy misses his letter and ends up deported and "stuck" in Pakistan and he repeats over on over "I kill you". God that was funny.

Two things associated with America? Right now?
1) Obama POTUS
2) Housing crisis/Economic collapse

[nietzschefan]

Paki was the English shorthand for many years. When immigration occurred(to the west) from India and Pakistan in the 70s-80-today, non-immigrants managed to make the "Paki" sound a lot like nigger.

In about 10 years you are going to be able to lose your job for calling someone an immigrant.

I love it, I love being able to destroy people just using words. Please outlaw MORE words. Wimps.

[madanthonywayne]

It's pretty ridiculous to consider "Paki" an insult. As has been pointed out, it's no different than Swede, Pole, Yank, Czech, Norse, etc. Who wants to say Pakistani when they could say Paki?

Fortunately, in the US there's not much call to use either word so the issue is strictly academic to us.

[leopold99]

What's everyone else's take on this?
i would introduce you as "someone from pakistan" or a "pakistani" or some other term that you agreed with.

i don't consider "paki" as being derogatory.

[Muslim]

Most people in the western "civilized" world, see Pakistan negatively. One could say it's our fault, but, really, come on. India mind you, is fine, only Pakistan is seen negatively. So, of course, to refer to a person as a Paki would be an Insult.

Hell remember that Sinfield episode where the guy misses his letter and ends up deported and "stuck" in Pakistan and he repeats over on over "I kill you". God that was funny.

Two things associated with America? Right now?
1) Obama POTUS
2) Housing crisis/Economic collapse

India is fine? Where they beat women and do witch hunts? :eek:

http://www.desiloaded.com/file/299-supposed-indian-witch-tied-and-beaten.html

[Enmos]

I call my Pakistani people, Pakistani people.

Of course you don't really have Pakistani people..

[Ghost_007]

Most people in the western "civilized" world, see Pakistan negatively. One could say it's our fault, but, really, come on. India mind you, is fine, only Pakistan is seen negatively. So, of course, to refer to a person as a Paki would be an Insult.


Again, just because you hate Pakistan and its people with a passion (something continuously demonstrated by your posts in this forum) doesn't mean everyone else does. And that bit about India being fine is laughable, the average yank could not distinguish between a Pakistani and an Indian, they can't distinguish between anyone with brown skin, another thing, there is a lot of overlap between Pakistan and India (language, dress, religion, culture, architecture etc.), your understanding of the situation (as usual) is nonsensical. Pakistan was actually India a while back.

Two things associated with America? Right now?
1) Obama POTUS
2) Housing crisis/Economic collapse


Really? Those in their teens and twenties have grown up watching the stupid blood-crazed Bush administration presiding over the US and effing up the rest of the World - the last 8 years will not be forgotten, particularly by the young.

[Captain Kremmen]

You can only judge the offensiveness of a word by how offensive it is felt by the people that the word describes.
That would usually be related to the degree of hatred and oppression exerted by the people who use that word against them as an insult.
And the power that those people had over them.

Probably the most offensive word is C***.
Followed by N*****.

When people become emancipated, words previously found very offensive can actually be adopted by the people who were formerly insulted by them.
For example nigger, previously asterisked, as a term used between Black Americans for each other, is a sign of progress. It's OK when they use it, so the asterisks are not needed.

Women, however, are still not using the word C***.

Paki comes quite a bit down the list, but it is still a word that an educated person should be expected not to use.

[cosmictraveler]

A very bad word to me is the word "uneducated".

[Captain Kremmen]

Pourquoi?

[shorty_37]

Probably the most offensive word is C***.
Followed by N*****.



Women, however, are still not using the word C***.

Paki comes quite a bit down the list, but it is still a word that an educated person should be expected not to use.

Yeah I hate that word! I cringe when I hear it. I have never been called that but if I was I was be really :mad:.

I have used the word Paki but only amongst ppl I know. I wouldn't go running around using that word in public.

[Enmos]

I honestly don't see what's so horrible about the word Paki.. it's just an abbreviation :shrug:

[shorty_37]

I honestly don't see what's so horrible about the word Paki.. it's just an abbreviation :shrug:

What about the word C***?

[Enmos]

What about the word C***?

What word is that ?

[shorty_37]

What word is that ?

Don't play stupid Enmos....;) C**T

[Enmos]

lol
I guess nowadays that word is only used as a curse word.

Edit: I guess it's equivalent to "dick".

[S.A.M.]

You can only judge the offensiveness of a word by how offensive it is felt by the people that the word describes.
That would usually be related to the degree of hatred and oppression exerted by the people who use that word against them as an insult.
And the power that those people had over them.

Probably the most offensive word is C***.
Followed by N*****.


I don't consider the word nigger to be offensive, after all, Indians were called that by the British, so it must be the Queens language

As for cunt, I've discovered its very popular with the genteel male today. But mostly in private messages. The same gentlemen claim to never say "fuck off" to anyone, so its clearly not the most offensive term.

[Enmos]

I don't consider the word nigger to be offensive, after all, Indians were called that by the British, so it must be the Queens language

As for cunt, I've discovered its very popular with the genteel male today. But mostly in private messages. The same gentlemen claim to never say "fuck off" to anyone, so its clearly not the most offensive term.

:confused::m:

[leopold99]

. . . the average yank could not distinguish between a Pakistani and an Indian, they can't distinguish between anyone with brown skin, . . .
what does brown skin have to do with anything? trying to play the race card?
can you tell the difference between a japanese born in japan and one born in america? can you tell the difference between a japanese and a chinese? taiwanese? korean? vietmanese?
what does "brown" have to do with anything?

[Michael]

India is fine? Where they beat women and do witch hunts? :eek:

http://www.desiloaded.com/file/299-supposed-indian-witch-tied-and-beaten.htmlI know, I know, but the fact is that's the way it is. Probably most of the Indians that migrate are a bit British and therefor share our modern value system and many of the Pakistani are Middle Eastern and seem like superstitious throwbacks.

Then there was a series of gang-rapes of high school girls by Pakistani boys.
The London bombings.
The who cartoon thing.
The whole "Down with Australia" oh, but I'll collect my Dole check thank you very much thing...

etc...

Indian come here, integrate, work hard, are smart, don't seem overtly superstitious (or if so no more than a modern Xian and they keep it to themselves) and in short integrate very very well.

[Dr Lou Natic]

. . . the average yank could not distinguish between a Pakistani and an Indian
What a stupid thing to say. They are the same thing, they were one country that was arbitrarily divided quite recently.

[Dr Lou Natic]

I just noticed you go on to say-
Pakistan was actually India a while back.
So you know that, but why "the average american"? No one can tell the difference, indians can't tell the difference.

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: I don't think "Paki" is meant to be derogatory, but then I'm not Pakistanian. Why not just call them "Paks?" The rest of the world call us "Yankees" or "Yanks" for short. To me a "Yankee" is someone from the Northern USA.

[Captain Kremmen]

I don't consider the word nigger to be offensive, after all, Indians were called that by the British, so it must be the Queens language

As for cunt, I've discovered its very popular with the genteel male today. But mostly in private messages. The same gentlemen claim to never say "fuck off" to anyone, so its clearly not the most offensive term.

You don't find the word nigger applied to Indians offensive.
It meant that they were considered of low worth and could be abused with impunity.
What words do you find offensive, then?

[Muslim]

I know, I know, but the fact is that's the way it is. Probably most of the Indians that migrate are a bit British and therefor share our modern value system and many of the Pakistani are Middle Eastern and seem like superstitious throwbacks.

Then there was a series of gang-rapes of high school girls by Pakistani boys.
The London bombings.
The who cartoon thing.
The whole "Down with Australia" oh, but I'll collect my Dole check thank you very much thing...

etc...

Indian come here, integrate, work hard, are smart, don't seem overtly superstitious (or if so no more than a modern Xian and they keep it to themselves) and in short integrate very very well.


Generalize much? :bugeye: I'm a Pakistani am not even a Muslim am an atheist, you can't get any more British then that. Anyway my dads a Pakistani his a non Practising Muslim but his a millionaire... In fact most Pakistanis in the UK are self employed. Check the census. My dad could have moved his factories to India and saved costs in wages, but he does not like Indians thus = more British jobs. My father employs over 2000+ workers.

[Muslim]

*************
M*W: I don't think "Paki" is meant to be derogatory, but then I'm not Pakistanian. Why not just call them "Paks?" The rest of the world call us "Yankees" or "Yanks" for short. To me a "Yankee" is someone from the Northern USA.

I mean I'd just prefer it if you guys just called us by our names...

[cosmictraveler]

That's what I said to begin with.:)

[Fraggle Rocker]

But I would remind you that Czechoslovakian people are called Czechs. . . .No. The Czechs and Slovaks are two different ethnic groups. They have two separate languages although they're closely related and with a little practice they can learn to understand each other pretty well.

The land of the Czechs used to be known as Bohemia, and in fact the Czechs were generally called "Bohemians" by others and never objected, even though the Bohumil were a Celtic people who lived there 1500 years ago. My mother's family were Bohemians and they called themselves that in English. They didn't expect anyone else to be able to pronounce or spell "Czech," which is the Polish spelling of their own name for themselves. (I don't have the character set to spell it in the Czech language.)

The country of Czechoslovakia was formed in the 20th century by combining the two countries of Bohemia and Slovakia. Americans often referred to both Czechs and Slovaks as "Czechs," the same way Europeans refer to all Americans as "Yankees" even though that only applies to people from the Northeast. Our Southerners put up with it graciously, and so did the Slovaks.

The country split into "the Czech Republic" and "Slovakia" after Perestroika.I don't consider the word n***** to be offensive, after all, Indians were called that by the British, so it must be the Queen's language.The fine distinction between slang and offensive language is not the same in all anglophone countries, so please don't depend on what you learned in the UK to be true in America. I know Alison Moyet used that word in a song lyric, just to mean "a downtrodden person," without raising any hackles in Britain, but do not throw it around here or you might end up being extremely regretful. As you can see, I won't even let what we refer to here as "the N-word" go out through my company's server with my ID.

[John Connellan]

can you tell the difference between a japanese born in japan and one born in america?

The american accent gives it away :p

[Ghost_007]

I just noticed you go on to say-

So you know that, but why "the average american"? No one can tell the difference, indians can't tell the difference.


Nope. Outsiders cannot tell the difference, Pakistanis and Indians can (as well as those that pay attention). The Indian Subcontinent is an area that is incredibly diverse, the people in the East (Afghans) are a lot different to those in the West (Nepal, Bangladesh), and those from the North a lot different to those in the South. As a general rule the further down you go the shorter and darker toned the people become. There is a major mish-mash of different races and religions.

I know, I know, but the fact is that's the way it is. Probably most of the Indians that migrate are a bit British and therefor share our modern value system and many of the Pakistani are Middle Eastern and seem like superstitious throwbacks.


Rotfl - Pakistan is not in the Mid-East. Pakistan was India, the British ruled Pakistan/India at one time.


Then there was a series of gang-rapes of high school girls by Pakistani boys.

And? That makes it right to be prejudiced against Pakistan and Pakistanis?

The London bombings.


Yes. I'm sure you hate the Irish just as much for their many bombings of London.

Indian come here, integrate, work hard, are smart, don't seem overtly superstitious (or if so no more than a modern Xian and they keep it to themselves) and in short integrate very very well.


India has a Muslim population of over 150 million, around about the same amount in Pakistan and Bangladesh. I'm sure you knew that. Do you like Indian Muslims?

You don't make sense to me. Did you know that the Punjab province is split with half in Pakistan and the other half in India? The distinction between Indian and Pakistani is many cases is so blurred – your understanding (as usual) is fucked beyond belief. Another thing, you make all this fuss about religious clothing, what is your take on the Sikh turban? Do you know what a Sikh is? Once you're done googling I look forward to your response.

And finally, did you know that Pervez Musharraf is ‘Indian’? lmfao.

[Ghost_007]

*************
M*W: I don't think "Paki" is meant to be derogatory, but then I'm not Pakistanian. Why not just call them "Paks?" The rest of the world call us "Yankees" or "Yanks" for short. To me a "Yankee" is someone from the Northern USA.


'Pakistanian' Hahaha, its Pakistani!

These days people get the name wrong. They pronounce it: Pack-is-Tan

Its supposed to be: Pah-kih-stahn

Listen to how Obama says it (vid in link):

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004641.html

[Captain Kremmen]

Stationed in the Falklands after the Falklands war, British troops started calling the locals "Bennies" after a very slow witted character in a soap of the time.

The Falklanders were understandably upset by this, and the Army made it a punishable offence for the soldiers to use the nickname.

The soldiers responded by renaming the Islanders "Stills"

Why Stills?

Still Bennies.

[Ophiolite]

What's everyone else's take on this?There is no doubt that the term Paki has often been used as a term of racial abuse by white nutters. I have also heard it used in conversation as term, which as worst was neutral and at best complimentary.

In the 1960s the only grocery stores in the UK that were open past five o'clock were owned/operated by individuals from the Indian sub-continent. We appreciated the service they offered and their commitment to earning a living to support their families. Visiting one of the stores would be described as 'going down to the Paki's. In my home town, an enterprising local kept his store open into the evening and was known as the white paki.

These latter usages were all intended positively, but I would not employ them today.

[Captain Kremmen]

Paki, which I would imagine is only offensive in the UK, was a term used to refer to all Asians, not just Pakistanis.
This particularly upset Indians, who were probably more anti-Pakistani than the British.

[Medicine*Woman]

'Pakistanian' Hahaha, its Pakistani!

These days people get the name wrong. They pronounce it: Pack-is-Tan

Its supposed to be: Pah-kih-stahn

Listen to how Obama says it (vid in link):

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/004641.html
*************
M*W: Thanks for claifying that. When I was writing this, I questioned the correct usage and still got it wrong. No offense to anyone.

[Captain Kremmen]

No-one from the North of England would pronounce it Pak-i-Stahn.
That would be too bloody la-di-dah.

Its Pak-i-stan.
And I don't care how Obamma pronounces it.

[prometheus]

Words are more than just their etymology. The history of their use is vitally important to the meaning of the word. The historical reason for shortening Pakistani to paki was so that it would be easier to say things like "filthy paki go home," etc.

IMO the word paki carries racist undertones no matter how the person speaking intended. It simply shows the intelligence and consideration of the odious little wanker harry that he used it at all.

(PS, apologies for the rant.)

[Captain Kremmen]

It simply shows the intelligence and consideration of the odious little wanker harry that he used it at all.
(PS, apologies for the rant.)


If it was a film from last week I would agree with you, but it was from three years ago. He certainly showed how much growing up he had to do.
He was being arrogant, and perhaps worse. I caught a note of Sadism in the way he said "Our Paki Friend". I hope that his time in the army has changed his attitude. If not, he will be despised all his life.
For the moment, I think we should give him the benefit of the doubt.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Originally Posted by Ghost_007: 'Pakistanian' Hahaha, its Pakistani!Originally posted by prometheus: Words are more than just their etymology. The history of their use is vitally important to the meaning of the word. The historical reason for shortening Pakistani to paki was so that it would be easier to say things like "filthy paki go home," etc. IMO the word paki carries racist undertones no matter how the person speaking intended.There's more to it than that. The suffix -ostan is the Persian word for "land." When the Mughals (one wave of the Mongol "hordes") ruled much of southwestern and south central Asia, Persian was the lingua franca and that suffix was used, quite reasonably, to form the names of individual nations within their empire. Hindustan was at that time the name for India; Hindu being the name of the Indus river, phonetically modified over the centuries as the Iranic languages separated from the closely related Indic languages. It eventually came to mean the entire continuum of ethnic groups living there and their religion.

This naming convention persisted until modern times. Turkmenistan is the land of the Turkmen people, ditto for Tajikistan, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan.

As already pointed out, what is now Pakistan was historically part of the territory of India. But since it is way up there in the northwestern corner, close to the path of the Mughal Invasion, and since along their way the Mughals adopted Islam and then proceeded to spread it everywhere they went, that part of India ended up with a much higher concentration of Muslims than the central and southern part. (Bangladesh was the eastern edge of India and underwent the same process; in fact until the 1970s Bangladesh--"Free Bengal"--was part of Pakistan.)

When Pakistan separated from India in 1947, the two countries differed primarily in religion rather than ethnicity. There's not really any one ethnic group that identifies Pakistan, so they had to come up with a name for the country that was not simply the name of an ethnic group plus -stan. The writer Choudhary Rahmat Ali had published a pamphlet "Now or Never" in 1934 advocating the separation of that region from India. He named it Pakistan, which means "Land of the Pure." That name was an obvious choice for the new country. For the first time (perhaps, I'm not an expert), a country name was coined with the -stan suffix, without the first part being the name of the people who live there.

So... The the people who live in Kazakhstan are Kazakhs, the people who live in Kyrgyzstan are Kyrgyz, the people who live in Tajikistan are Tajiks, the people who live in Turkmenistan are Turkmens, and the people who live in Uzbekistan are Uzbeks. Obviously after decades of Soviet occupation there are a lot of Russian people there too, not to mention there are Tajiks and Kazakhs in Uzbekistan and so forth, but that doesn't stop us from using those names for all of them. Nobody ever uses the word "Uzbekistani" or "Uzbekistanian," even though that might actually be more politically correct.

So here we were confronted with a new country named Pakistan. Westerners just have to be forgiven for automatically assuming that the people who live there are called Pakis.

[prometheus]

So here we were confronted with a new country named Pakistan. Westerners just have to be forgiven for automatically assuming that the people who live there are called Pakis.

That's right enough, but this view completely ignores all of the recent British history that really set "paki" as a term of racist abuse. I should point out that I am white, not Pakistani, but I am old enough to remember the racism and riots of the 1980's and "paki" was a common term then, often coupled with "go home" or "dirty" or some such, as I've stated above. It's bound to have taken on a new meaning with this sort of use. This issue has come about as a result of prince Harry using the word and nothing in your (very interesting) post changes my opinion that he was wrong to use it.

(Off topic) I do have a certain prejudice against the monarchy but for someone who has lived his entire life in the spotlight of the media he's shown incredibly poor judgement in the many gaffes he's made, and this is not the first time he's been criticized for his lack of nous on race issues. I am of the opinion that people with merit should be revered, not a person who's only claim is that he is someone's son.

[S.A.M.]

Well there is some argument as to whose son he actually is. :p

[prometheus]

SAM; IMO his entire family are equally stupid so his parentage is fairly obvious!

[Captain Kremmen]

The person he is most like is Prince Philip........
No, it couldn't be. Could it?
Though I wouldn't put it past the old blighter.

[outlandish]

It's pretty ridiculous to consider "Paki" an insult. As has been pointed out, it's no different than Swede, Pole, Yank, Czech, Norse, etc. Who wants to say Pakistani when they could say Paki?

Fortunately, in the US there's not much call to use either word so the issue is strictly academic to us.

pretty ridiculous to you maybe, but then retards have a low ridiculous level threshold.
typical anglo saxon crap, yes, it wouldn't seem an insult to you my white trash friend, just as the klan don't see what all the fuss is about when the hang a nigger.
hardly going to get an objective view of what is/isnt considered racially ofrensive from a member of the master race are you?

the origin of the word paki lies soley in racisim. the word's very exsistence lies causing offence, it didn't have any other origin.
the fact that muslim (who is a moron) doesn't find offence in the word paki doesn't actually render the word inoffensive and non racially insulting.

[John99]

um, excuse me isnt it a shortened version of Pakistani?

[outlandish]

um, excuse me isnt it a shortened version of Pakistani?

semantics. you know what it means, and it's not just a shorterned version of pakistani.

[John99]

in a bad mood today?

i dont know what else it could mean. i never heard it before.

[Ghost_007]

There's more to it than that. The suffix -ostan is the Persian word for "land." When the Mughals (one wave of the Mongol "hordes") ruled much of southwestern and south central Asia, Persian was the lingua franca and that suffix was used, quite reasonably, to form the names of individual nations within their empire. Hindustan was at that time the name for India; Hindu being the name of the Indus river, phonetically modified over the centuries as the Iranic languages separated from the closely related Indic languages. It eventually came to mean the entire continuum of ethnic groups living there and their religion.

This naming convention persisted until modern times. Turkmenistan is the land of the Turkmen people, ditto for Tajikistan, Kazakstan, Kyrgyzstan and Uzbekistan.

As already pointed out, what is now Pakistan was historically part of the territory of India. But since it is way up there in the northwestern corner, close to the path of the Mughal Invasion, and since along their way the Mughals adopted Islam and then proceeded to spread it everywhere they went, that part of India ended up with a much higher concentration of Muslims than the central and southern part. (Bangladesh was the eastern edge of India and underwent the same process; in fact until the 1970s Bangladesh--"Free Bengal"--was part of Pakistan.)

When Pakistan separated from India in 1947, the two countries differed primarily in religion rather than ethnicity. There's not really any one ethnic group that identifies Pakistan, so they had to come up with a name for the country that was not simply the name of an ethnic group plus -stan. The writer Choudhary Rahmat Ali had published a pamphlet "Now or Never" in 1934 advocating the separation of that region from India. He named it Pakistan, which means "Land of the Pure." That name was an obvious choice for the new country. For the first time (perhaps, I'm not an expert), a country name was coined with the -stan suffix, without the first part being the name of the people who live there.

So... The the people who live in Kazakhstan are Kazakhs, the people who live in Kyrgyzstan are Kyrgyz, the people who live in Tajikistan are Tajiks, the people who live in Turkmenistan are Turkmens, and the people who live in Uzbekistan are Uzbeks. Obviously after decades of Soviet occupation there are a lot of Russian people there too, not to mention there are Tajiks and Kazakhs in Uzbekistan and so forth, but that doesn't stop us from using those names for all of them. Nobody ever uses the word "Uzbekistani" or "Uzbekistanian," even though that might actually be more politically correct.

So here we were confronted with a new country named Pakistan. Westerners just have to be forgiven for automatically assuming that the people who live there are called Pakis.


I have never come across anyone who thought the people who live in Pakistan are called Pakis, not once, not in the UK and not once elsewhere in Europe. I have also never come across anyone respectful using the term in the media, not in the UK, Europe, the US or anywhere else.

People who make such mistakes should not be forgiven in my opinion, they should be mocked and humiliated, if the situation allows for this. Pakistan is a recognised and well-known country, Pakistanis have settled all over the place, the UK, US, Europe, Australia, Saudi Arabia, Canada etc. They are more dispersed then lets say Kazakhs or Uzbeks. There are no excuses in my view.

[John99]

How about calling British - Brits?

Should they be mocked and humiliated or perhaps shot?

[John99]

how about Danish - Danes?

[John99]

Swiss - Swedes
Norwegian - Norde\Norse\Nordic (?)

[Fraggle Rocker]

How about calling British - Brits? Should they be mocked and humiliated or perhaps shot?We call them that pretty commonly in the U.S. and I've never heard them complain about it. It's not meant as an insult and apparently it's not taken as one. There's even a type of rock called "Britpop."

Our Southerners graciously put up with the entire world calling them "Yanks," and there's no greater insult than that. So I think Americans can be given some slack if we don't happen to understand the subtleties of the word "Paki," especially when someone like Sam tells us that that's what she calls her Pakistani friends.how about Danish - Danes?The original Germanic tribe who settled on that peninsula were the Danes. They call themselves dansk.

Most languages don't capitalize adjectives formed from names: americano, americansk, americain, amerikaner, etc.Swiss - SwedesYou've got them mixed up. The Swiss are the people from Switzerland. They speak three different languages and call it Schweiz in German, Suisse in French and Svizzera in Italian.

The Swedes, or the Swedish people, are from Sweden. The call the country Sverige and themselves svenska.Norwegian - Norde\Norse\Nordic (?)They call the country Norge and themselves norsk.

"Norse" and "Nordic" do not refer to Norway.

"Norse" refers to the original North Germanic tribe and its successor people who remained in the north: the Swedes, Norwegians, Danes, Icelanders and Faroese. The ones who did not remain in the north became the West Germanic tribes, (Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Langobards, etc.) and the East Germanic tribes (Visigoths, Ostrogoths, Vandals, etc.). Old Norse is the language from which the Scandinavian languages are descended, rather similar to Modern Icelandic.

"Nordic" refers to Scandinavia from a geographical, rather than ethnic or linguistic standpoint. I.e., it includes Finland. The Finns are not only not Germanic but not even Indo-European. They came from farther east and may have originally been a Mongolic people. Their language is related to Hungarian and many linguists put it in a much larger family with Turkish, Kazakh, Azeri, Uzbek, Tatar, Mongolian and their whole vast set of Mongolic relatives. There has been so much mixing of peoples in Eurasia over the millennia that it's not easy to sort out their DNA.

At any rate, you can see that it's not easy for people who speak one language to come up with a name for people who speak another language, that perfectly matches their own name for themselves. Often the problem is phonetic: The Spaniards can't pronounce "English" so they call them inglés. Sometimes it's grammatical: The Russian adjectival suffix is -skiy so they call them angliyskiy. Sometimes it's because an ancient name in an ancient language followed two different evolutionary paths in two different languages. Latin Londinium slowly turned into "London" in English, but it became Londra in Italian. Sometimes it's a matter of history. We named Hungary after the Huns, the first non-European people to occupy the territory, whereas the people who live there now named it Magyarorszag, after their own ancestors who arrived more recently, the Magyars.

[Valentine_A]

The Finns are not only not Germanic but not even Indo-European. They came from farther east and may have originally been a Mongolic people. Their language is related to Hungarian and many linguists put it in a much larger family with Turkish, Kazakh, Azeri, Uzbek, Tatar, Mongolian and their whole vast set of Mongolic relatives.

No. Finnish and Hungarian are not in the same family as the other languages. They, along with Estonian, belong to the Finno-Ugric language family, while Turkish and Mongolian are Altaic languages – a group of languages whose precise classification is still a matter of dispute among linguists. The reason Turkish is sometimes confused with the Finno-Ugric languages is because of something called vowel harmony, a linguistic feature which Turkish shares with Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian.

[CptBork]

We covered this type of scenario way back in high school social studies. The point was made that many Canadians of southeast asian descent like to call each other Pakkies, but when a white person says it, them's fightin' words. Same with black Americans in hip-hop culture, they love callin' each other "nigga", sometimes they even mean it in a derogatory fashion, but again if a white person says it, it's go time. It's not the number 1 priority on my list of problems for the world to address, but I think if these are considered derogatory words when certain people use them, then they shouldn't really be used by anyone.

[mike47]

I honestly don't see what's so horrible about the word Paki.. it's just an abbreviation :shrug:
That is what I thought until I read this thread . :) .

[mike47]

*************
M*W: I don't think "Paki" is meant to be derogatory, but then I'm not Pakistanian. Why not just call them "Paks?" The rest of the world call us "Yankees" or "Yanks" for short. To me a "Yankee" is someone from the Northern USA.
I thought " Yanks " was derogatory too . Isn't that true ?.

[Lucysnow]

The word Paki has generally been used in a derogatory term in England by white nationalists.

What's everyone else's take on this?

The word 'paki' is used by ANYONE who is trying to be derogatory. They don't have to be a nationalist party.

[Nyr]

Its derogatory if you're not one; there's always some mysterious distrust among communities that leads to aggression when an outsider uses the term.

I relate it to the sort of a situation in which people tend to get uncomfortable when outsiders use a nickname or something of the sort that usually only an inner circle of friends or family are privileged to use.

[Lucysnow]

The term paki was started by outsiders. Its what the english use when they want to demean or insult a pakistani immigrant. Its not a bloody nickname. Just because a group claims a term in order to have some sense of control over its meaning or subvert a meaning doesn't mean it loses its derogatory status. For example african american males may call each other nigger but it doesn't make them look very good.

[mike47]

Its derogatory if you're not one; there's always some mysterious distrust among communities that leads to aggression when an outsider uses the term.

I relate it to the sort of a situation in which people tend to get uncomfortable when outsiders use a nickname or something of the sort that usually only an inner circle of friends or family are privileged to use.
If the word is really that bad then no one should use it at all . It is a human hypocracy to use such a word in families and friends .

[Nyr]

Argh.. I meant the second part as a parallel; an analogy.

Plus, would you consider your grandmother hypocritical if called you a little scoundrel, but attacked a stranger on street if he or she said the same?

[Fraggle Rocker]

No. Finnish and Hungarian are not in the same family as the other languages. They, along with Estonian, belong to the Finno-Ugric language family, while Turkish and Mongolian are Altaic languages – a group of languages whose precise classification is still a matter of dispute among linguists. The reason Turkish is sometimes confused with the Finno-Ugric languages is because of something called vowel harmony, a linguistic feature which Turkish shares with Finnish, Estonian and Hungarian.Sounds like a Sprachbund, languages with similarities that are not due to common ancestry, but to their speakers forming a cultural community and assimilating elements of each other's languages. The Semitic languages have some remarkable grammatical similarities to the Indo-European family, yet they are unrelated. Romanian, a Romance language, has many phonetic features characteristic of the Slavic languages.I thought "Yanks" was derogatory too. Isn't that true?I don't believe it was originally intended as an insult. The "Brits" are fond of shortening words so "Yankee" simply became "Yank" when thousands of American soldiers came to their military bases after our country entered World War I. My parents were children at the time but their impression was that when the British yelled, "the Yanks are coming," it was an expression of gratitude, relief and affection. I am not aware of the word ever being interpreted as an insult by my people (except the Southerners, more on that in a moment). There was a popular song titled "Over There" about American soldiers being shipped "over there" to fight in the war. The phrase, "The Yanks are Coming," appears in the lyrics as a perspective on how their arrival was greeted by the British, and it was regarded the same way: gratitude, relief and affection. Today the British seem to regard us with bemused fondness, in their traditional reserved way, so I don't think they say "Yank" as an insult. 140 years after the American Revolution and 100 years after the War of 1812 there was still an undercurrent of animosity toward the British among some Americans. There was a significant segment of the population who thought we should enter the war on the German side, and an even larger segment who thought we should remain neutral. Analysis of the political machinations that resulted in our siding with the British would fill a library (not everyone regards Woodrow Wilson as a hero), but once the war was over and millions of Americans had fought and died side-by-side with millions of Britons, the animosity was buried forever. We regard British culture as our culture; many young Americans think that Shakespeare and the Beatles are part of our history, and I guess they are. As long as the earth turns, Americans will die to protect England. None of us regards "Yank" as an insult, except... Of course "Yankees" are, technically Americans from the Northeast. During our Civil War the Southerners applied it to all Northerners and the Northerners did not object. So it's an insult to call a Southerner a Yankee. Nonetheless, today we are all Americans and Southerners and Northerners fought and died side-by-side with the British in two wars, and became accustomed to being called "Yanks" by people who couldn't tell us apart. I can't get away with calling a person from Texas or North Carolina a "Yank," but there's no reason I would ever do that. But if a British tourist or student calls them that, they will be politely corrected but no offense will be taken. So long as everyone is sober.:)