View Full Version : High Protein diets and Kidneys
Hi,
I have heard that high protein diet may harm kidneys ... While bodybuilding, the first thing you do is jack up the protein intake to at least 1 gm per lb of body weight.
Is there a medical study definitively linking high protein intake in body builders or people who are on high protein diets may be susceptible to kidney failure?
Rick
phlogistician
12-31-08, 10:46 AM
There was some research that proved a link yes, I looked it up 'cos my mother was ill for a while, but it turned out she had gall stones, probably caused by her liking for peanuts (the fat rather then the protein caused those iirc).
But a diet high in animal products, which you'd generally need to get high protein intake isn't all that good for you, which is why the Atkins diet increases the carbs with time.
LadyMidnight
01-01-09, 04:31 AM
There was some research that proved a link yes, I looked it up 'cos my mother was ill for a while, but it turned out she had gall stones, probably caused by her liking for peanuts (the fat rather then the protein caused those iirc).
Gall stones are mostly excess cholesterol (and some bile). Peanuts are high in fat, but not in cholesterol. I doubt the peanuts are what caused your mom's gall stones.
LadyMidnight
01-01-09, 04:45 AM
Hi,
I have heard that high protein diet may harm kidneys ... While bodybuilding, the first thing you do is jack up the protein intake to at least 1 gm per lb of body weight.
Is there a medical study definitively linking high protein intake in body builders or people who are on high protein diets may be susceptible to kidney failure?
Rick
It's extremely hard - almost impossible - for a study to have a "definitive" conclusion, but yes, several studies have shown a correlation between high protein diets and kidney failure. Other studies have said that that's bullshit. We may never know the truth!
phlogistician
01-02-09, 04:01 AM
Gall stones are mostly excess cholesterol (and some bile). Peanuts are high in fat, but not in cholesterol. I doubt the peanuts are what caused your mom's gall stones.
Ah yes, but it's not just imbibed cholesterol that counts, our bodies make it too, and they can make it from saturated fat, and peanuts are high in fat.
Out bodies produce more than we imbibe, generally too.
LadyMidnight
01-02-09, 09:49 PM
Ah yes, but it's not just imbibed cholesterol that counts, our bodies make it too, and they can make it from saturated fat, and peanuts are high in fat.
Out bodies produce more than we imbibe, generally too.
Yup, most cholesterol is synthesized in the liver, which is why genetics is a big determining factor when it comes to cholesterol problems. Peanuts aren't that high in saturated fat. They are high in fat with about 15 grams per ounce, but less than 2 grams of that fat is saturated. But I guess it's easy to eat way more than one ounce if you REALLY like them. If she's eating 10 ounces of peanuts a day, that's already 20 grams of saturated fat and, as a general rule, you shouldn't exceed 15.
Asguard
03-20-09, 05:09 PM
oh for god sake phlogistician, get a clue.
excess red meat means excess saturated FAT, which if continued causes insulin resistance and type 2 diabities. Then its the high and low blood sugar which causes kidney damage NOT protein
as for the akins diet that is VERY dangerious, if you want a true scientific eating plan for life, then try something like this:
http://www.csiro.gov.au/science/TWD.html
medium carbs
HIGH protein
low FAT
STEALTH60
03-20-09, 05:40 PM
COME ON, I think that it is quite clear that if you eat everything in moderation but stay on the low side for saturated and other kinds of fat that you will stay health. that of course is excluding and specific genetic factors.
Ganymede
03-26-09, 10:41 PM
I've been an avid weight lifter for years. And I've read, and tried just about every body building diet known to man. One thing is for sure, it's insanely hard to consume one gram of protein per body pound. What I recommend is eating steak or red meat 3 times a week, and reduce your carb intake as much as possible. Consuming red meat should only be practiced on a short term basis. Once you've attained a solid core, stick with the white meat exclusively. Also, try substituting protein shakes for Albacore Tuna.
codanblad
03-27-09, 12:40 AM
I've been an avid weight lifter for years. And I've read, and tried just about every body building diet known to man. One thing is for sure, it's insanely hard to consume one gram of protein per body pound. What I recommend is eating steak or red meat 3 times a week, and reduce your carb intake as much as possible. Consuming red meat should only be practiced on a short term basis. Once you've attained a solid core, stick with the white meat exclusively. Also, try substituting protein shakes for Albacore Tuna.
i weight lifted for a while, got reasonably muscly without really assessing or changing my diet. being fit makes you hungry neways, eating different shit's easy cos u get bored of stuff. i think protein shakes etc. are ineffective for the amount of effort i've seen friends put into their diet vs. the results they got.
One thing is for sure, it's insanely hard to consume one gram of protein per body pound.
What do you mean? I weigh 190 lbs and I accidentally consumed over 220 grams of protein the other day.
What I recommend is eating steak or red meat 3 times a week, and reduce your carb intake as much as possible. Consuming red meat should only be practiced on a short term basis. Once you've attained a solid core, stick with the white meat exclusively. Also, try substituting protein shakes for Albacore Tuna.
I just started the keto diet. My daily intake of carbs is 5% or less of my total calorie intake (30 grams or less). Protein makes around 25% (160 grams) with fat being 70%.
Besides my mouth tasting like shit, I feel great.
i think protein shakes etc. are ineffective for the amount of effort i've seen friends put into their diet vs. the results they got.
Then I must say that your friends suck. They probably didn't track calories or anything. On top of that, they probably think that you grow in the gym... no, you grow in the kitchen and in bed.
Protein shakes are for convenience only! Many people, including myself, can get all the protein they need (and more) from real food alone.
Asguard
03-27-09, 04:13 AM
absane, that is just about the worst diet i have ever herd of. when i can use a computer rather than my phone i will try to post some stuff on arterio scolorosis which is something you probably have badly. as any diabetic will tell you glocose is important. you can die without it and its the product of carbs. on the othere side fat is the source the body has the most trouble proccessing which is why it ends up as free floating chlorestorol and fatty deposits in the artrries. even if you look the correct weight you are probably destroying your body
cosmictraveler
03-27-09, 06:02 AM
Each persons metabolism is different as well as their genetic makeup. With that being the case everyone digests what they eat differently and should consider eating in moderation to avoid any major problems. Trying to force ones body into a diet it cannot tolerate only brings about many problems within each of our bodies.
absane, that is just about the worst diet i have ever herd of. when i can use a computer rather than my phone i will try to post some stuff on arterio scolorosis which is something you probably have badly.
I'll look it up.
as any diabetic will tell you glocose is important. you can die without it and its the product of carbs.
If carbs are so important, why is it that the body can run on ketone bodies? Even the brain can run without carbs. In the last 3 days I have had less than 90 grams of carbs... A typical person on a 2500 calorie diet will have 250 grams A DAY. I'm not in a coma and I am not any weaker. Hell, I don't even feel hypoglycemic. Explain.
on the othere side fat is the source the body has the most trouble proccessing
This is because we are living on a high carb diet. Can you please explain to me why I feel more energetic on 70% of my calories from fats? Keep in mind, I keep my fats balanced (I get more than enough monounsaturated fats, for example). Sure, for the first two days I felt like shit... but now I don't.
which is why it ends up as free floating chlorestorol and fatty deposits in the artrries. even if you look the correct weight you are probably destroying your body
Is cholesterol really a bad thing? You do realize that the body produces it... right? For all the cholesterol I don't get in my diet, the body makes up for. Also, dietary cholesterol has little/no correlation with cholesterol levels.
As for the "fatty deposits," I know nothing about that. Please fill me in so I can do my research.
Just one question, how did man survive without agriculture? Before we could grow grains, we had to rely on meat, some berries, and nuts. On an evolutionary scale, my diet is much closer to what we evolved on than the modern diet is.
Each persons metabolism is different as well as their genetic makeup.
True.
With that being the case everyone digests what they eat differently and should consider eating in moderation to avoid any major problems.
Define "moderation." I always love this.
Trying to force ones body into a diet it cannot tolerate
The body is amazing when you really think about it. It's very strong and very adaptable. I think that the reason some smokers can be pack-a-dayers since 15 and live to their mid-90s is because their bodies are very VERY good at adapting to stress. People think that the more they treat the body as being weak, the stronger and more efficient it becomes (think... drinking filtered water). Wrong, it becomes weaker.
When you break a bone and the bone heals, that bone is stronger than it was before. When you cause microtearing in your muscles due to physical demands, the muscle fibers get stronger. Hell, when you go to boot camp for the military, you come out mentally stronger. A stronger body (and mind) can tolerate even more stress... and the more stress a body (and mind) can handle, the more life it can handle.
Note, I'm not saying to go out and smoke or abuse the body. The point is to stress the body a little bit at a time. Like calluses on your hands. Notice how they slowly get larger and harder? It's to deal with the constant stress on your hands. If you were to cut the skin on your hand with a knife, the last part to get cut would be the callus.
codanblad
03-27-09, 12:18 PM
Then I must say that your friends suck. They probably didn't track calories or anything. On top of that, they probably think that you grow in the gym... no, you grow in the kitchen and in bed.
Protein shakes are for convenience only! Many people, including myself, can get all the protein they need (and more) from real food alone.
just stating opinion and experience. its possible they could have done it better, all i said was the work they put in didn't pay off. without making any effort with my diet i put on about 6 kilos while kick boxing and going to the gym semi-seriously. even when i was trying to lose weight to stay inside my weight class, by eating carefully, i'd still put on about 4.5. i think all the effort and planning for the diet is a waste of time, but i suppose some people are taking it a lot more seriously than me. i guess my msg is aimed at people who want to be huge but aren't really ready to put 100% into it. save urself some hassle, take it easy and be content with smaller rewards.
just stating opinion and experience. its possible they could have done it better, all i said was the work they put in didn't pay off. without making any effort with my diet i put on about 6 kilos while kick boxing and going to the gym semi-seriously. even when i was trying to lose weight to stay inside my weight class, by eating carefully, i'd still put on about 4.5.
It's agreed that some people have it easier than others. I'm lucky in that I can eat shitty and not get fat as quickly as most people do. I spent all my college years living on Mountain Dew and processed food. I never experienced the "Freshman 15."
i think all the effort and planning for the diet is a waste of time, but i suppose some people are taking it a lot more seriously than me.
Well if someone just wants to live their life, then there is no need to plan anything. For me, I just get the basics down and then I just "wing it."
A high-protein diet may lead to uric acid build-up and kidney stones, which are very painful.
absane, that is just about the worst diet i have ever herd of. when i can use a computer rather than my phone i will try to post some stuff on arterio scolorosis which is something you probably have badly. as any diabetic will tell you glocose is important. you can die without it and its the product of carbs. on the othere side fat is the source the body has the most trouble proccessing which is why it ends up as free floating chlorestorol and fatty deposits in the artrries. even if you look the correct weight you are probably destroying your body
I'm still waiting :-/
Asguard
03-31-09, 09:15 PM
sorry still stuck on phone. stupid computer
Ganymede
03-31-09, 10:41 PM
What do you mean? I weigh 190 lbs and I accidentally consumed over 220 grams of protein the other day.
I just started the keto diet. My daily intake of carbs is 5% or less of my total calorie intake (30 grams or less). Protein makes around 25% (160 grams) with fat being 70%.
Besides my mouth tasting like shit, I feel great.
Please give me a break down. Your average Frozen Chicken Breast has 32 grams of protein. So you accidentally ate 5 + chicken breasts, or 4 10 oz steaks? You can't accidentally eat that much protein, unless you're consciously trying.
Please give me a break down. Your average Frozen Chicken Breast has 32 grams of protein. So you accidentally ate 5 + chicken breasts, or 4 10 oz steaks? You can't accidentally eat that much protein, unless you're consciously trying.
Yea, that's basically it. When you cut out carbs, all eat a lot less roughage and it becomes much easier to get too much protein.
I don't remember what I ate that day, but it was about a dozen eggs, some steak, some hamburgers, nuts, etc.
Most doctors agree that high protein diets are fine for people with healthy kidneys. If you have kidney problems, obviously your mileage may vary.
Asguard, your body can and will get all the glucose it needs from either protein or fat, no carbs required.
Asguard
04-01-09, 05:55 PM
nasor, really. Then why did type 1 diabetics stave to death before insulin was avaliable?
After all, they still break down the bodies fat and protine and then they die
nasor, really. Then why did type 1 diabetics stave to death before insulin was avaliable?
After all, they still break down the bodies fat and protine and then they die
Because without insulin your muscles and various other tissues won't extract glucose from the blood, even though there is plenty of glucose present. Aren't you supposed to be in healthcare or something?
Asguard
04-01-09, 08:14 PM
partually correct, YES glucose is converted to ATP but that is only part of the story. Protine is NEVER converted to glucose and insulin ONLY works on glucose (ok it also helps with excess K+ but thats irrelivent to this debate)
Our lecturer was discussing type 1 diabetics and a trend amongst young women especially when she was younger (its probably still happerning). That is that they stop taking there insulin for a couple of days before they go out so they can drop a couple of dress sizes. Why would they lose weight rather than causing brain and myocardial death with-in 3 min (the brain cant store ATP and the heart has a HUGE demand on it and thats why these 2 organs fail very rapidly in hypoxia)? The answer is that the body switches to burning fat and protine (hense the acitone smell which comes from burning potine as a fuel sorce) insted of glucose. However this is not sustainable, they WILL die and all of them did before we learnt to sythasise insulin in pigs.
shorty_37
04-01-09, 08:20 PM
What do you mean? I weigh 190 lbs and I accidentally consumed over 220 grams of protein the other day.
I just started the keto diet. My daily intake of carbs is 5% or less of my total calorie intake (30 grams or less). Protein makes around 25% (160 grams) with fat being 70%.
Besides my mouth tasting like shit, I feel great.
I tried Atkins a while back myself, and I know what you are talking about the bad taste in your mouth.
I have tried going back to it a few times since then, but find the first couple days I get a MASSIVE headache and then break down and eat carbs.
Have you experienced that at all?
I would loose weight, but had an issue with going to the bathroom. It would be DAYS and DAYS before I would go. I couldn't understand
how I was loosing weight.
Asguard
04-01-09, 08:21 PM
shorty, very smart. Try the diet i posted earlier, IT at least has some bases in science rather than a basis in wanting to eat McDonalds dripping in fat
Asguard
04-01-09, 08:52 PM
http://www.badfatsbrothers.com/BFB.html
and does anyone know how i can get a slide show PDF linked here? i cant directly link it because its on a ristricted site so i need to post it to somewhere else. Absane if you give me an email adress i will send it to you
Protine is NEVER converted to glucose and insulin ONLY works on glucose
Oh rly?! I beg to differ.
I tried Atkins a while back myself, and I know what you are talking about the bad taste in your mouth.
I have tried going back to it a few times since then, but find the first couple days I get a MASSIVE headache and then break down and eat carbs.
Have you experienced that at all?
I would loose weight, but had an issue with going to the bathroom. It would be DAYS and DAYS before I would go. I couldn't understand
how I was loosing weight.
I have little craving for carbs and I never got a headache.
But I am not doing the Atkins diet.
shorty, very smart. Try the diet i posted earlier, IT at least has some bases in science rather than a basis in wanting to eat McDonalds dripping in fat
Who's eating McDonalds?
shorty_37
04-02-09, 09:21 AM
shorty, very smart. Try the diet i posted earlier, IT at least has some bases in science rather than a basis in wanting to eat McDonalds dripping in fat
What are you talking about McDonalds? :bugeye: I very very rarely ever eat there, unless we are out and about and starving.
Protine is NEVER converted to glucose and insulin ONLY works on glucose (ok it also helps with excess K+ but thats irrelivent to this debate)
I guess you've never heard of the gluconeogenic pathway? Glucogenic proteins? Any of this ring a bell?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glucogenic_amino_acid
Asguard, you seem to have a habit of posting really screwy stuff about health and medicine. This isn't the first time I've noticed you confidently posting stuff that's completely wrong. If your lecturer really told you that proteins are never converted to glucose, I think it's time to switch to a better university.
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