What to do when democracy fails.

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by coberst, Dec 22, 2008.

  1. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    What to do when democracy fails.

    In a democracy the citizens are sovereign; when the citizens of a democracy haven’t the capacity to comprehend the problems of that democracy that democracy will fail.

    Human ingenuity has proven to be capable of producing very sophisticated technology. But humans seem to be unable to develop the intellectual sophistication required to guide and control that technology. That is to say that democracy cannot function adequately in this high tech society we have created.

    Our financial system’s abrupt collapse is one manifestation of this problem. Few of our experts, if any, have the sophistication to mange this high tech economy that we have created. Certainly few if any of our (USA) citizens have the sophistication to make decisions about this matter.

    A large democratic state cannot consistently function within a world that is beyond the comprehension capacity of the citizens of that democracy.

    We have tried Monarchy, Oligarchy, and now Democracy.

    Where can we turn when our technology outstrips our intellectual sophistication?

    To me the only direction that seems available is that since we cannot achieve the commensurate intellectual sophistication demanded by our technology then we must curtail the use of such sophisticated technology.
     
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  3. tim840 Registered Senior Member

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    umm... well first of all you are wrong about democracy not being able to function adequately; it is still doing a fine job. But when people stop valuing democracy, when people stop participating in democracy, that is when democracy fails. Democracy can only fail if the people cause it to - like every other aspect of the thing, it is decided by the populace. At that point, if it comes, dictatorship seems the best option. Of course, not a permanent dictatorial government (I would never espouse that) but dictatorships often function as good transitional periods. People just need to be reminded of how blessed they were under a democratic system, and while a dictator can consolidate power and public opinion and get some crap done, a return to democracy immediately afterwards is advisable as well as likely.
     
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  5. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    coberst is also wrong in assuming that the US is a democracy.
     
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  7. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    I agree. But replace "democracy" with "represtentative republic" and I think the post is not far wrong.

    "In a democracy the citizens are sovereign; when the citizens of a democracy haven’t the capacity to comprehend the problems of that democracy that democracy will fail."

    I think that's a valid statement. I also think that it's quite true of the people of the USA - the complexities of the nation, and it's involvement in the world, is far, far beyond the comprehension of the average voter. And what that means, of course, is that the few who actually vote can't know what the hell they're voting for or against.

    The solution? I think it's far simpler than most might think ...local politics. People/voters can understand their local politics quite well, even including their "role" in national and international happenings. In so doing, the local politicians can then be instrumental in "electing" national leaders ...leaving the voters out of it altogether because they can't understand it.

    As for his statement on curtailing technology, I think he's gone off of his basic track. Voters/the people don't need to know shit about technology in order to function ...and I can't see it having much of an effect on anything about politics in general. In fact, technology has helped in keeping our national government functioning as well as it has ...can you imagine how difficult it would be if we didn't have technologies like telephone and tv?

    Baron Max
     
  8. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    i always thought a democracy was one where majority rules.
    i picture our system as a republic of 50 independent states.
    what's there to understand? people love and hate each other
    take energy for example. the US could easily produce the energy it needs.
    the real question is why don't they?
    scr3w the vote. the only thig that matters is if the government represents the people.
     
  9. YinyangDK Registered Senior Member

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    As with all great nations before us, The Romans, The egyptians, U.K., Russia ect.
    All have had their moments and then failed.
    Some because of poor leadership others because of too far stretched borders and some because of indifferentisme in the population.
    The U.S. will properly in a near future have another civil war and if not some military person takes over, The U.S will split up in smaller independent countries as seen in Russia.
    Some of these new countries will become democratic and other will become others forms of goverments. There might be some anarchistic "goverments" down south.
     
  10. Baron Max Registered Senior Member

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    Democracy is when each individual in the society/nation has a vote on each and every issue.

    No, the states are far from being independent! We're all bound by the Constitution and by the subsequent amendments, as well as by laws that have been passed in the last couple of centuries.

    If you think the states are independent, then how do you explain that the Northern states wouldn't let the Southern states pull out of the union?

    That answer practically proves my earlier statement.

    Baron Max
     
  11. Zap Facts > Opinions Registered Senior Member

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    326
    'No one escapes when freedom fails -
    The best men rot in filthy gaols;
    And those who cried "Appease! Appease!"
    Are hanged by those they tried to please.'
     
  12. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    The point is that whether you call it a democracy or vegetable soup we live in a form of government wherein the citizens are sovereign and in most cases lack the sophistication required for that task. Furthermore they often lack the will to perform their task adequately.
     
  13. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    are you saying the people don't know what's good for themselves?
    society has a habit of producing the people it needs
    this i'll agree with.
     
  14. leopold Valued Senior Member

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    i believe the intentions of our founders was for the states to be independent but united. you can see the results of that in the various state laws.
    we are united in some ways, independent in others.
     
  15. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    We were born smart enough but we weren’t born intellectually sophisticated enough to handle this high tech world we have invented.

    What is the difference between “being smart” and “being sophisticated”? I would say that we can use the handyman and his tool box as a good analogy for comprehending this difference. The number and quality of the instruments in a handyman’s tool box is a measure of his smartness and his experience using those tools is a measure of his sophistication.

    If a handyman has only a hammer then every job is a job that will get hammered on. If that handyman has a great tool box but has experience only with a hammer then that handyman will look for things that can be hammered into place.

    My answer to the question “how to become more intellectually sophisticated?” is “become a self-actualizing self-learner of disinterested knowledge.”
     
  16. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    Hope for the best and try not to kill yourself

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  17. YinyangDK Registered Senior Member

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    Good Answer!

    It is funny how many people sees a democracy as an automated system that works if you vote every 4 years.
     
  18. Syzygys As a mother, I am telling you Valued Senior Member

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    Except we have the question that who are being represented?

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  19. coberst Registered Senior Member

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    This is all part of my claim that our (USA) citizens lack the sophistication to responsibly perform thier task as citizens in a democracy. Our educational system teaches us to be good producers and consumers but fails us in other areas of our life. That is why that becoming a self-actualizing self-learner is so important.
     

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