The small graveyard within walking distance from my home dates back to the 18th century, yet in some cases the inscriptions on the stone markers have already weathered away. Even those that remain legible tell me so little of the person that once was: Here lies Rebecca, wife of Silas Spaulding. Born August 18, 1748… Soon, even the stone letters commemorating Rebecca’s name will turn to dust. One day the names of Newton and Einstein will also be forgotten. History will reduce you and I to dust. Even the Pyramids will crumble into sand. Our face and name will be forgotten, and soon it will be as if none of us had ever lived. Nothing that any of us writes in these SciForums represents the ultimate truth. Every theory that each of us defends so fiercely will one day will be shown to be either wrong, incomplete, or irrelevant. New ideas will supercede our own tired notions. Before the ideas we hold so dear are forgotten entirely, our successors will laugh at our naivete in bearing such primitive concepts. In turn, the beliefs of our successors will be ridiculed and then forgotten by those who follow them. So what do we have? Our past has already passed, and the future is not yet. We have only this fleeting moment. Whatever it is that we have in this life, it is necessarily contained within the span of this moment. We exist in a tiny point in time and space. We are surrounded by a great void of cold space and unconscious time. Again I ask, what do we have? Our bodies are mortal, our ideas are imperfect, and we exist as insignificant smudges of chemical dirt in a lonely backwater of a nondescript galaxy. My answer is that we have each other. If I knew that I should never again feel a warm embrace or see the smile of a friend, I’m quite sure I would put a bullet in my brain tonight. All I have in this vast universe is you. You make the difference between despair and delight in my life. I don’t want your blood; a kind word, or your pleasant thought will suffice. Everything we say in this forum is absolutely worthless in comparison with how we treat each other when we say it. I can read science books on my own, and I’m quite capable of entertaining my own philosophical thoughts. My discussions about science or philosophy are simply my excuse to come together and feel the warmth of fellow travelers. I’m curious to know how you think and feel about the mystery of your own life. I hope to be able to both give and receive encouragement, and perhaps some measure of friendship. My own ideas are important to me, but your ideas, even if diametrically opposed to mine are important as well. If I didn’t wish to be exposed to differing views, I’d have never joined in a debate on this forum to start with. I’m asking that we think twice, three times,…, what ever it takes before we post the miserable words, “Fuck You,” or some variation thereof. It hurts me to read these things aimed at another person. I can only imagine how the intended target feels. This is a plea for civility. This is a plea that we consider the mortal on the other end of our discussion to be as important as the mortal ideas that we discuss. Disagree by all means, but let us disagree with respect and civility. It makes no sense to sign onto this forum just so that we might barely tolerate each other. We’ve all come to this place purposefully. I suspect we are here to take pleasure in each other’s good company. As for myself, I’ve fought a terrible underlying feeling of loneliness from the time I was a child. This is why I reach out to others, and why I shrink back when I read some of the horrible things I've seen posted. I have a sense that there is good in nearly all of us. I'm asking that we let the good in us shine through. Michael
orthogonal, There is love & compassion, out there. Too bad most folks cannot find those within themselves. If you ever need an ear to listen or a shoulder to cry on. pm me, please. I will be here for you.
Wow...simply... wow...... Extremely well written. orth that is some of the best writing I have ever seen. I could take 50 good quotes from that 3 or so paragraphs. My compliments to you. Sorry to see go btw, because I just met youPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Later T P.S. Look belowPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Not too far. Just below that small line but still within my post.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Orthogonal, This a poor summary of your post but there are several points here that I’d like to reference. As we see from Joeman not everyone agrees with you. He reflects a destructive perspective that is present in the world that I suspect will not easily disappear. No matter how much we would like his type to “go away” they unfortunately may always be present. This means we must be aware of them, be always vigilant, and defend ourselves against their usually inevitable violence and destructive nature. You state My answer is that we have each other. That isn’t a good answer, that is a dependence that you have acquired through many thousands of years of evolutionary conditioning. You have been conditioned to ‘come together’ for reproduction and hence help ensure the survival of the species. Without that conditioning the species would have died out a long time ago. As an example look at the Giant Panda. These are solitary creatures with a low sex drive; consequently they are on the verge of extinction. Humans on the other hand are self-aware, unlike any other animal, and we are capable of intelligently shaping our future destiny. Our current perceived dependence on primeval emotions and instincts should be seen as a disadvantage and a hindrance to future progress. Once we learn to control and/or eliminate these ancient impediments we will then achieve true freedom. The result of course will be individual independence. Through technology and science we are slowly seeing the potential of extending our lives to duration’s that will rival if not achieve actual immortality. Even then in the timelessness of a probable infinitive universe we will still remain as insignificant specs. I have no problem with that perspective since it presents a challenge of new things to explore and to understand. I am not here because I want to be with others but because I want to learn from others and to learn about others because that helps me understand my self. My objective is to be truly independent without any reliance on any other individual. For the moment I need a community for survival, e.g. doctors, health care, and the many other services that for the moment can only be provided by others. But as increased mechanization, robotics, and AI take a firmer grip on how the world functions then the need for dependence on others will eventually disappear. So yes for the moment we are mortal, but I expect to beat that problem, and our instincts drive us to be with others, and I’m developing skills to overcome those problems. Feelings of loneliness are only in your mind and stem from a long evolutionary process. Your mind and intelligence can overcome those primeval instincts. Just an alternate view. Cris
so true, orthogonal I sortof feel that sciforums has become my home, a pplace where I feel comfortable in the vast net. Ready to fight to defendPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!D) I hope it will remain even when we all are gone (or I succeed and aquire imortality) cheers, It's sad you're leaving , but I have a suspicion you'll return someday. Don't forget your passwordPlease Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Once again you have posted a well thought out, logical, and reasoning post. I still have times when I wish for the more civil days of exosci. Times change, so do the members of sciforums. With that change come the new. Some good; some bad. The lack of civilty on the boards tends to start flames, flame wars, and general conflict. It is seen time and again. One poster sees another as a threat to ideas and shortly thereafter it is personal. The merit of the post is lost in the conflict. A lot of the time it is the attitude expressed in words. Sometimes intentional yet othertimes by neglect of expression, not knowing the others' frame of mind, or even the lack of body and facial signals that usually go with a conversation to signal the severity or seriousness of the other. When dealing with "just text" as the medium of expression these misunderstandings happen more frequently. The clue as to how a statement is meant is more critical without the body signs to clue one as to the meanings. It is amazing at exactly how much of our conversation depends upon these nonverbal signals. Civility is the mark of civilization and culture. It is obvious that we are still growing...
Back to the topic. Othogonal: here is my 2 cents from Desiderata: Go placidly amid the noise and haste, and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible, without surrender, be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even to the dull and ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons; they are vexations to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others, you may become vain or bitter, for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble, it's a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs, for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals, and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantement, it is as perrenial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with dark imaginings. Many fears are born of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life, keep peace in your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
Yeah, I've noticed the hostillity in the forums recently. Things weren't like this 1 year ago when I first joined. It's pretty sad. Such hostility (ie the work "fuck") has been directed to me, too. Obviously, though, it's a sign of weakness and I don't let it get to me. People who need back their words with that, usually don't know what they're arguing about, or are too lazy to care (ie stoned). I'm sad to see you leaving, not only because we're loosing a member, but also since I realize it's gotten to such a point, were someone would be driven away. I come here to develop thoughts and discuss things, not to burn time like some (since I don't have enough of it Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! ). So people who come here to flame, like the mallory knox's among you oughta be ashamed. Shame, shame..........
Elbaz: If you see fucking as a form of hostility, it's no wonder you're so tense. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Really, come on people, firstoff: Since when was a bit of hostility a bad thing? Secondly, quit being such bloody hypocrites. If the board is un-civil, that's likely because its members are uncivil. And we're all members, ja? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The solution is really simple. Just make sure the content your post is approved by Xev and Adam. Civility restored Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Sexy: Yeah, 'cuz I have such fucking issues with fucking profanity. I get really fucking offended when people use it. Fucking morons. I also have issues with how sexually oriented things have gotten. Thus I demand that every post have (bandwidth friendly) pictures of scantily clad, attractive women or links to such pictures. This post brought to you by the Society for the Proliferation of the verb "fuck". Have a nice day. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Tristan, Ah, Vulcans, my heroes!!!! But remember that is a fictional story written by people who see emotions as important and portray someone who insists on logic as somehow inferior. The bias is itself illogical, and many things Spock is expected to do are in fact quite illogical. However, have you noticed that Spock and his logic tends to be the most common aspect that solves most of their problems. Notice also that seemingly poor old Data, who irrationally wants to become human, also seems to be the one that solves most of the crew's problems. Of course again the fiction writers show human emotions as important and that a machine wouldn't have emotions. Both these perspectives I expect to be shown false in the near future. But this is a debate in its own right and this is not the appropriate forum to pursue this. Have fun Cris
orthogonal: If I could hide the words you didn't want to see then that would make for a good clairavoiance session now wouldn't it. Lighten up on yourself old man! It's just life...or something like it. "People are people so why should it be You and I should get along so awefully"
Thank you Orthogonal/Michael Orthogonal/Michael, You may never see this message but I feel the need to write it. I was sitting here working away and feeling the total stress of being a web designer with demanding clients, feeling the total and utter loss of a virtual chat community I once created, and feeling overall devastation due to rejection from yet another potential investor for a revised version of my failed community when I received an email with a quote in the text. Needing a quick distraction, I Google the following: (Quote: "It's just life -- or something like it.") When I came upon your post I decided to read it even though “I thought” it wasn’t what I was looking for. It ended up being just what I needed. Your thoughts, so beautifully written, made me realize that everything is finite. The stress of this day will end. Screaming clients will become satisfied ones or be replaced by new ones. My failed community will either receive backing or it will remain only a fond memory; and in the end… “it’s all just life – or something like it”. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Thank you for your message in a bottle (written 9 years ago). It gave me pause and a new breath of reality. Ahhhhh the Internet…gotta love it.
Yep. We're all pointless... That's the really frustrating thing about life for me, it's usually this awful, joyless struggle... and there's no meaning to it whatsoever... but YMMV.... Because this thread is really old, though, I must... Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
Except for pretty girls, right? And that is my first post on sciforums.com. Hello everyone Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
