Closing Guantanamo Bay Detainee Camp

[S.A.M.]

In broad terms, the idea seems to be to abandon the military tribunals authorised under the Military Commissions Act 2006. These have begun to get underway at Guantanamo Bay. A trial procedure would be set up within the United States instead.

At the same time, a renewed effort would be made to find countries willing to take those prisoners already cleared for release.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/us_elections_2008/7721628.stm

Finally. Then there is Diego Garcia, Bagram, Abu Ghraib and the prison ships. Wonder how many people there are in all.

It is thought there are about 50 or so prisoners who might face trial, out of the 255 or so in the camp.


A new system would also come under the close scrutiny of the US courts and a case against it would probably go right up to the Supreme Court to test its constitutionality

The problem is that evidence against them might have obtained either through coercion, or even torture, or from foreign agencies which have used similar methods.

Some of this evidence might be admitted in a trial before a military tribunal. So might hearsay evidence, in which someone relates what he or she was told, if the military judge decides that it would have "probative value to a reasonable person".

But neither would be acceptable under the normal rules of US courts.

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, for example, charged at Guantanamo with responsibility for the 9/11 attacks, was subject to waterboarding.

It is true that he has expressed a wish to die but a civilian court in the US might not admit evidence against him gathered at Guantanamo Bay. Then what happens? It is hard to see him simply being released.

There is also the problem of whether the source of some evidence should be withheld from the prisoner.

Wonder what will happen to all these guys.

[Baron Max]

Wonder what will happen to all these guys.

They'll all go back and continue bombings and killings of innocent people in their home nations.

As you well know, SAM, the Muslim terrorists kill far, far more of their own people than they do anyone else. I guess they figure that if they keep killing their own people, ....

Well, geez, I guess that's what "jihad" means, right? Muslims killing Muslims? Killing ones own people?

Baron Max

[Texas Bob]

"Wonder what will happen to all these guys."

They will probably get released and scurry right back to rejoin the Jihad. There are numerous cases where we have let some of them go and then later they were killed, wounded or captured again in combat with our troops.

[draqon]

amazing...Obama is actually changing the USS (United States Stalinistic) regime

[S.A.M.]

Strange, why would anyone want to kill US troops after being tortured by them for several years?

I think they should sue the US government for unlawful detention and torture or apply to the ICC and file human rights abuses against the USA. Their cases should be heard in open court.

[Baron Max]

Strange, why would anyone want to kill US troops after being tortured by them for several years?

If they killed US troops on their own soil, I wouldn't complain ...that's what war is all about. But, SAM, you know as well as me, that the "jihadists" kill far, far more of their own people!

Muslims killing Muslims ...in some twisted idea that it harm Americans in some way??? :D

Baron Max

[Texas Bob]

They were captured in the first place for taking up arms against our guys....news flash we didn't just go randomly snatch them out of their shop when they were minding their own business.

And torture? What teaching troops how to handle their Korans so as not to offend anyone? yeah, that sounds horrible...if it were me, I wouldn't let them have that book and would burn the dam thing if I found one in their possession since that is the inspiration for their terror activities.

[Baron Max]

I think they should sue the US government for unlawful detention and torture or apply to the ICC and file human rights abuses against the USA. Their cases should be heard in open court.

Won't happen, they were/are POWs. So that comes under a whole new legal system. They might petition the "Geneva Convention" people, but...?

Baron Max

[S.A.M.]

Won't happen, they were/are POWs. So that comes under a whole new legal system. They might petition the "Geneva Convention" people, but...?

Baron Max

Nope sorry, doesn't fly

In April 2004, Cuban diplomats tabled a United Nations resolution calling for a UN investigation of Guantanamo Bay[143].

In May 2007, Martin Scheinin, a United Nations rapporteur on rights in countering terrorism, released a preliminary report for the United Nations Human Rights Council. The report stated the United States violated international law, particularly the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, that the Bush Administration could not try such prisoners as enemy combatants in a military tribunal and could not deny them access to the evidence used against them.[144]

Prisoners held at Camp Delta and Camp Echo have been labeled "illegal" or "unlawful enemy combatants," but several observers such as the Center for Constitutional Rights and Human Rights Watch maintain that the United States has not held the Article 5 tribunals required by the Geneva Conventions.[145] The International Committee of the Red Cross has stated that, "Every person in enemy hands must have some status under international law: he is either a prisoner of war and, as such, covered by the Third Convention, a civilian covered by the Fourth Convention, [or] a member of the medical personnel of the armed forces who is covered by the First Convention. There is no intermediate status; nobody in enemy hands can fall outside the law." Thus, if the detainees are not classified as prisoners of war, this would still grant them the rights of the Fourth Geneva Convention as opposed to the more common Third Geneva Convention which deals exclusively with prisoners of war. A U.S. court has rejected this argument, as it applies to detainees from al Qaeda.[23] Henry King, Jr., a prosecutor for the Nuremberg Trials, has argued that the type of tribunals at Guantanamo Bay "violates the Nuremberg principles" and that they are against "the spirit of the Geneva Conventions of 1949.

[draqon]

why haven't US newspapers made newslines of Guantanamo as USA Gulag?

[Texas Bob]

I think they should sue the US government for unlawful detention and torture or apply to the ICC and file human rights abuses against the USA. Their cases should be heard in open court.

Yeah, real torture...heavens we might of even played some loud music as we taught our guys to be politically correct regarding their religion of death. Maybe we went a bit over the top running a few of them through industrial plastic shredders....o' wait, that was Saddam doing that to innocent children so scratch that one off the list.

[CarpetDiem]

Strange, why would anyone want to kill US troops after being tortured by them for several years?

I think they should sue the US government for unlawful detention and torture or apply to the ICC and file human rights abuses against the USA. Their cases should be heard in open court.

Hey, they're alive with options, unlike many of thei countrtymen and the people they've destroyed. They weren't put there 'cause they sang in the choir! If David Hicks and co had aimed a rifle at one of the Oz soldiers he would've been justifiably killed. But because he got caught etc, now they make a bg song and dance abot detention.
Can't do the time, don't do the crime or pu yourself in that situation.

[ElectricFetus]

For the ones with no viable evidence and no trial to determine if they are guilty how do any of you know that they are terrorist?

[Texas Bob]

For the ones with no viable evidence and no trial to determine if they are guilty how do any of you know that they are terrorist?

Let see....most of them were caught in armed conflict with our soldiers.

[ElectricFetus]

Let see....most of them were caught in armed conflict with our soldiers.

That not a terrorist, that a prisoner of war. Besides were the evidence on how they are caught and why?

[Baron Max]

That not a terrorist, that a prisoner of war.

All of the people held at Gitmo are POWs.

Besides were the evidence on how they are caught and why?

Don't need "evidence" for POWs. If they were caught on the battlefield, that's evidence enough to send them to Gitmo.

My best guess is that all the captured Afghanis and Iraqis threw down their weapons when the soldiers got close ...and without uniforms or ID, just being in the region of fighting is more than enough evidence of complicity.

Baron Max

[ElectricFetus]

All of the people held at Gitmo are POWs.

Don't need "evidence" for POWs. If they were caught on the battlefield, that's evidence enough to send them to Gitmo.

My best guess is that all the captured Afghanis and Iraqis threw down their weapons when the soldiers got close ...and without uniforms or ID, just being in the region of fighting is more than enough evidence of complicity.

Baron Max

According to this many of them were not caught on the battlefeild, many were caught in Pakistan by the Pakistanis and sold for bounty to Americans.
http://www.newstatesman.com/200610090029

[Baron Max]

According to this many of them were not caught on the battlefeild, many were caught in Pakistan by the Pakistanis and sold for bounty to Americans.

Well, if a legitimate, recognized nation catches terrorists, and don't want to deal with them in their own nation, and the US don't want them released, .....what else are they to do?

Baron Max

[(Q)]

Finally. Then there is Diego Garcia, Bagram, Abu Ghraib and the prison ships. Wonder how many people there are in all.

Plenty to keep you ranting, no doubt. :p

[ElectricFetus]

Well, if a legitimate, recognized nation catches terrorists, and don't want to deal with them in their own nation, and the US don't want them released, .....what else are they to do?

Baron Max

First of all these were not pick up by Pakistan's government, they were pickup by individuals of varying allegiances, second: how is the US to know they are terrorist, any bum could have been pickup and sold for bounty? Many have been release already with no charges filled, why did we waste years of their lives and tax dollars imprisoning innocent people? As is only 60 are ever planned to be brought to trial in a closed military tribunal, all the rest released, waste of money and morality.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Absolutely. I think there should simply be a campaign of Genocide. All things have their solutions. :rolleyes:

[ElectricFetus]

Absolutely. I think there should simply be a campaign of Genocide. All things have their solutions. :rolleyes:

Absolutely: kill all humans!

[Baron Max]

First of all these were not pick up by Pakistan's government, they were pickup by individuals of varying allegiances,...

And you know this ......how?

... second: how is the US to know they are terrorist, any bum could have been pickup and sold for bounty?

The Paki gov turned them over to the USA as terrorists or Taliban operatives. Others were picked up on the battlefield by US allies of the region.

Many have been release already with no charges filled, why did we waste years of their lives and tax dollars imprisoning innocent people?

Well, you're asking the wrong person! I don't know the answers, and I suspect that you don't either. Yet you're the one ranting as if you DO know the answers.

Personally, I don't give one little rat turd about any and all of them. They could all drop dead in their cells and I'd go have a cold beer as if nothing had happened.

Baron Max

[Baron Max]

Absolutely: kill all humans!

Don't worry, we're working on it. It's just going to take some time, that's all. We may kill some innocent animals in the process, but in the whole, they'll survive.

Baron Max

[ElectricFetus]

And you know this ......how?

The Paki gov turned them over to the USA as terrorists or Taliban operatives. Others were picked up on the battlefield by US allies of the region.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8049868/


Well, you're asking the wrong person! I don't know the answers, and I suspect that you don't either. Yet you're the one ranting as if you DO know the answers.


Why would I ask the question if I know the answer???


Personally, I don't give one little rat turd about any and all of them.They could all drop dead in their cells and I'd go have a cold beer as if nothing had happened.

Baron Max

Shows how much you care about people.

Don't worry, we're working on it. It's just going to take some time, that's all. We may kill some innocent animals in the process, but in the whole, they'll survive.

Baron Max

Humans are animals. I don't think survival of animals is the concern, rather make sure and evolutionary successor to humans and life in general is created and than leaving the old system to fester to oblivion.