View Full Version : Why do christians continue to believe their religion when it's been refuted?
Medicine*Woman
10-25-08, 08:33 PM
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M*W: I've been on sciforums for several years now, and no matter what you read, legitimately research, or post, the christians on this forum are not open to new or innovative ideas about their religion, and they only believe what has been fed to them by their leaders.
That is a scary thought, if you ask me. I question why they don't even want to listen to what could be a possible revelation to them, but they shun all ideas of anything different than what they already know.
What's amusing is that some of the christians on board make broad statements that have long been found to be untrue. Some of these statements include:
Adam and Eve
Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat
The talking serpent
The plural gods of Eden
Giants of the Earth
All the metaphors for Jesus
Jesus's birth
Jesus's life
Jesus's death
Jesus's resurrection
All the witnesses who never saw Jesus
...and more.
What I want to know is when does truth and reality clash with lies and fantasy? And, why can't christians see the fallacies of their beliefs?
Christianity is not a forward moving religion. In fact, it seems from the posters here, it is going backwards to the days before scientific research existed or was kosher for it's believers to undertake such a feat.
It just doesn't make sense to me that a scientific forum contains information from the Dark Ages. Surely the human race has progressed beyond that even where religion is concerned.
A bigger concern I have is why are those people who are still living in the Dark Ages allowed to post their drivel in a modern scientific forum?
Orleander
10-25-08, 08:40 PM
.... why can't christians see the fallacies of their beliefs?...
Because they don't want to. Their beliefs make them happy. Why give up something that makes you happy?
And what place does religion even have on a science forum? Where would that leave you if the religion section was removed? How many science threads have you started?
Orleander
Their beliefs make them happy.
I think its more a one/two fear/greed punch. They are at heart greedy cowards who will betray any value in their lust after heaven and their fear of hell. They worship ignorance and blind obedience and consider refusing inconvenient truths a sign of "faith."
KennyJC
10-25-08, 11:16 PM
Exactly. Christianity is wrong. FULL STOP.
That's not even opinion, it's simple truth.
Yet the majority just seem to go along with it due to some vague cultural identity issues.
I'm just hoping that in the 21st century, each new generation will be a little less religious than before.
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M*W: I've been on sciforums for several years now, and no matter what you read, legitimately research, or post, the christians on this forum are not open to new or innovative ideas about their religion, and they only believe what has been fed to them by their leaders.
That is a scary thought, if you ask me. I question why they don't even want to listen to what could be a possible revelation to them, but they shun all ideas of anything different than what they already know.
What's amusing is that some of the christians on board make broad statements that have long been found to be untrue. Some of these statements include:
Adam and Eve
Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat
The talking serpent
The plural gods of Eden
Giants of the Earth
All the metaphors for Jesus
Jesus's birth
Jesus's life
Jesus's death
Jesus's resurrection
All the witnesses who never saw Jesus
...and more.
What I want to know is when does truth and reality clash with lies and fantasy? And, why can't christians see the fallacies of their beliefs?
Christianity is not a forward moving religion. In fact, it seems from the posters here, it is going backwards to the days before scientific research existed or was kosher for it's believers to undertake such a feat.
It just doesn't make sense to me that a scientific forum contains information from the Dark Ages. Surely the human race has progressed beyond that even where religion is concerned.
A bigger concern I have is why are those people who are still living in the Dark Ages allowed to post their drivel in a modern scientific forum?
M*W, would you support the burning of the Christian Bible, in your eyes to rid the world of this information?
Simon Anders
10-25-08, 11:35 PM
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The talking serpent
The plural gods of Eden
Giants of the Earth
Could you link me to posts dealing with these topics?
All the metaphors for Jesus
How can you refute a metaphor?
Medicine*Woman
10-26-08, 12:39 AM
M*W, would you support the burning of the Christian Bible, in your eyes to rid the world of this information?
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M*W: No. I don't believe any book should be burned, but I do believe we have the right to read anything we want and every book should be read in the context of which it was written. Nothing should be taken at face value.
Medicine*Woman
10-26-08, 12:41 AM
Could you link me to posts dealing with these topics?
How can you refute a metaphor?
*************
M*W: These topics have been worn out long ago, and I don't know how to retrieve these specific topics from earlier posts. Maybe someone who knows how to do this can help you out.
ylooshi
10-26-08, 12:43 AM
M*W, would you support the burning of the Christian Bible, in your eyes to rid the world of this information?
Burning would be bad for the environment. Much better to just recycle them. Turning them into paper mulch/pulp and then repressing them into tissue, packing paper, notebooks for kids in school, etc.
ylooshi
10-26-08, 12:46 AM
Could you link me to posts dealing with these topics?
Doesn\'t this site have a \"Search\" feature?
How can you refute a metaphor?
Cannot one refute a metaphor if that metaphor is being posited as a factual argument? If that metaphor is being retold by someone who takes it to be literal?
I guess, technically, that wouldn\'t be \"refuting the metaphor\" but refuting the misapplication of the metaphor.
Simon Anders
10-26-08, 01:26 AM
Doesn\'t this site have a \"Search\" feature?
Ye\s. I tri\ed "that". Not so go\od with ph\rases, so.....
Cannot one refute a metaphor if that metaphor is being posited as a factual argument? If that metaphor is being retold by someone who takes it to be literal? Well, I don't know what she meant. I don't think many Christians think Jesus is a fish. But then if you refute a statement about Jesus that could be taken as a metaphor, you are not refuting a metaphor, you are refuting a literal statement, one that perhaps should be taken as a metaphor.
I guess, technically, that wouldn\'t be \"refuting the metaphor\" but refuting the misapplication of the metaphor.
Ah, sorry. I missed this. Or refuting taking it literally.
Refuting that Tony flew into the room is really wasting everyone's time unless he is not a bat or a bird etc. and people mean it literally.
ylooshi
10-26-08, 01:29 AM
Sorry about the slashes, by the way. I have no idea what\'s causing them. They seem to be related to inverted commas and I can\'t (should I say cannot?) seem to fix it.
Simon Anders
10-26-08, 01:37 AM
No problem. I found it rather expressive.
I also thought of 'The Lamb of God'.
But perhaps she is on about Son/Sun, or the like.
Or perhaps she means that some of his actions were really metaphors. Or the crucifiction.
OilIsMastery
10-26-08, 02:45 AM
the christians on this forum are not open to new or innovative ideas about their religion, and they only believe what has been fed to them by their leaders.
Sounds like the scientists on this forum.
Giants of the Earth
Do you know what a dinosaur is?
Christianity is not a forward moving religion.
It's the only forward moving religion I know. For example, the Catholic Church is constantly modifying and changing it's views in light of new scientific evidence.
Leo Volont
10-26-08, 05:26 AM
Refuted!?
One can attack legends and myths claiming that they are not literally true, without doing anything in the least to cast the slightest doubt upon their Higher Meanings.
Yes, some particularly Stupid Christians think that the Legends matter, literally, but these are not the Leaders who actually keep the Entire Christian Superstructure going.
anyway, the Causes and Sources of a Religion are one thing to attack, but what of a Viable Living Religion?
Now, yes, mostly you people attack Protestants. Easy Targets. They really DON'T have a living viable Religion. They destroyed a Religion, and what they kept for themselves... Free Passes on Sin... really has no Spiritual Content. Not really a Religion, not in the way that the World defines Religion.
But check out Catholicism... no not Modern Catholicism... the Catholicism of Bishops who wanted to be accepted by their Protestant Colleagues... of Catholic Bishops who forgot that Paulist Doctrines were rejected by Civilized Catholicism at the Height of it Civilization for probably very good reasons. The Rise of the Saints came at the decline of Paul... and reversing that formula ... was that supposed to help?
Anyway, there is a great deal of Modern History of Religion ... of Spiritual and Miraculous Religion, which you won't go near because you have no hope to refute any of it. You would rather cast doubt on Archeological Remnants... so much easier for you.
You should be a lawyer. But Scholarship is so much more difficult.
Michael
10-26-08, 06:43 AM
What I want to know is when does truth and reality clash with lies and fantasy? And, why can't christians see the fallacies of their beliefs??
must be genetic...
Cellar_Door
10-26-08, 07:24 AM
They believe because they still cannot claim to know.
greenberg
10-26-08, 08:29 AM
Why do christians continue to believe their religion when it's been refuted?
Because it hasn't been refuted. It has only been mocked and anger has been expressed toward it. Mockery and anger do not a refutation make.
greenberg
Because it hasn't been refuted. It has only been mocked and anger has been expressed toward it. Mockery and anger do not a refutation make.
Refuted and mocked
jayleew
10-27-08, 08:46 AM
Went to church yesterday. First time in months. Other than a lecture on communication, I didn't really get much out of it. I'm hoping to find someone in the midst who is like-minded. Willing to question the fishy smell coming from the Bible. I did make an observation on this subject.
Medicine Woman, there are three reasons of Christian ignorance:
One, they believe the Bible. To them, nothing is fact unless it fits in the Bible box.
Two, they go to church and receive weekly brainwashing. First, they sing about how they love God, what God does for them, etc. This is all very encouraging for people who are hurting. But, once you are in the club, you feel obliged to sing these words. If you sing or say these words enough, you'll believe them.
After singing, they are ready to receive the message. But, your mind is very squishy at that time. Your emotions are likely burning at this point, and you are willing to hear "the truth" that your aching heart wants to hear. In other words, they are exposed with their guard down. They will quickly affirm anything told to them as long as someone is holding the Bible with a quick "Amen!".
And three, once you are in the club. Generally, it makes you pretty happy attending. People are on their best behavior, and you'll not find the treatment you get in the club anywhere else. You feel good.
You feel great, why would anyone in there right mind want to leave a sanctuary, where everything's alright and you can even be yourself (as long as you are not psychotic).
The fellowship is great fun, plain and simple. They even feed you. If you are part of the club, you can have many good friendships without all the work of maintaining them.
The bottom line is, the church would see to your every need in life if it was within their power. I've even had monitary help when I was down long ago.
Everyone should join the club. The problem is when the babbling starts. When the bad interpretations rear their ugly head, when zealot's call upton fire and brimstone, and when the church leadership is in a funk. Basically, when people have trouble with living their lives according to the Bible. And, the ones that do, they have their head so far up their butts, that they can't hear people who need help.
Those type are just out of touch with reality!!
Those type are Blinded by their own faith to the real needs of men.
This errosion in the faith proves another argument: The Bible is not completely true and God is something not known, or there is no God and Christians are just playing a game. The evidence for this argument is that the Christians who live by the letter of the law in the Bible, are either zealots or blinded by faith to reality. Every one of them. It's the Christians that do not follow every word as written that are the most healthy (kind, decent, loving, grounded, and fun) human beings in the club.
The culture is undeniable, and Christians are not willing to part with the culture, even at the cost of reason.
amark317
10-27-08, 08:52 AM
of course they aren't open to new ideas and only believe what their leaders tell them, THEY'RE CHRISTIANS!!!!!!!!
Because they don't want to. Their beliefs make them happy. Why give up something that makes you happy?
because it's not true would be a perfectly valid reason.
And what place does religion even have on a science forum?
Agreed.
Mr. Hamtastic
10-27-08, 09:46 AM
*************
M*W: I've been on sciforums for several years now, and no matter what you read, legitimately research, or post, the christians on this forum are not open to new or innovative ideas about their religion, and they only believe what has been fed to them by their leaders.
I'm sorry, but legitimate research does not include things impossible to verify.
That is a scary thought, if you ask me. I question why they don't even want to listen to what could be a possible revelation to them, but they shun all ideas of anything different than what they already know.
Here's a revelation, Gravity does not exist. No? You're sure you are right? Hope it's not a theory...
What's amusing is that some of the christians on board make broad statements that have long been found to be untrue. Some of these statements include:
Adam and Eve
Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat
The talking serpent
The plural gods of Eden
Giants of the Earth
All the metaphors for Jesus
Jesus's birth
Jesus's life
Jesus's death
Jesus's resurrection
All the witnesses who never saw Jesus
...and more.
What I want to know is when does truth and reality clash with lies and fantasy? And, why can't christians see the fallacies of their beliefs?
More to the point, why can't you see that the truth or falsehood of these things can only be accepted, not proven.
Christianity is not a forward moving religion. In fact, it seems from the posters here, it is going backwards to the days before scientific research existed or was kosher for it's believers to undertake such a feat.
Childish nonsense.
It just doesn't make sense to me that a scientific forum contains information from the Dark Ages. Surely the human race has progressed beyond that even where religion is concerned.
And yet, here it is.
A bigger concern I have is why are those people who are still living in the Dark Ages allowed to post their drivel in a modern scientific forum?
Hmmm. Posting that the various religions are actually "Sun Worship" is somehow better? If I attack your beliefs, do you mildly say, "To each his own"? Of course not. To theists, their deity/deities are as cherished as family, and sometimes the associated beliefs are thus as well. I'm sorry, is it harming you, personally?:bugeye::bugeye::bugeye:
What I want to know is when does truth and reality clash with lies and fantasy? And, why can't christians see the fallacies of their beliefs?
Primarily indoctrination and the false hopes it brings them.
greenberg
10-27-08, 10:26 AM
Refuted and mocked
It hasn't been refuted. For all practical purposes, the refutation of Christianity is wishful thinking at best.
Myself, I am no Christian nor do I support Christianity. Especially the mainstream fire and brimstone version of Christianity is impossible to refute, as its tenets are such that one would have to be at least enlightened to know that they are wrong.
For all practical purposes, Christianity can only be avoided, but not refuted.
Medicine*Woman
10-31-08, 04:44 PM
Hmmm. Posting that the various religions are actually "Sun Worship" is somehow better? If I attack your beliefs, do you mildly say, "To each his own"? Of course not. To theists, their deity/deities are as cherished as family, and sometimes the associated beliefs are thus as well. I'm sorry, is it harming you, personally?:bugeye::bugeye::bugeye:
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M*W: Thank you for crediting me for thinking up "Sun Worship." Had you been a more avid reader in ancient religions, you might understand that which you do not know. There are so many titles to choose from. I'll begin with Ahmed Osman, British Anthropologist and Egyptologist. Joseph Campbell comes to mind. Then there are the lesser known researchers, try looking up ancient history or religions, on bookshelves everywhere.
Again, thank you for your accolades. I didn't make sun worship up, actually there was a pagan's dream back in Abraham's day, oh, but you wouldn't believe that if I told you. For me, I'll keep reading about ancient religions and cultures. Maybe you should do the same.
skywalker
11-02-08, 01:01 AM
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?
No matter what they say MW... I admire your commitment and knowledge in this topic. It is obvious that Texas still got inteligent people. :-)
Medicine*Woman
11-02-08, 04:12 PM
No matter what they say MW... I admire your commitment and knowledge in this topic. It is obvious that Texas still got inteligent people. :-)
********
M*W: Gee, thanks!
It hasn't been refuted. For all practical purposes, the refutation of Christianity is wishful thinking at best.
It has been repeatedly refuted from several difrerent angles, empirically, logically and historically. Xtianity is just rubbish.
joepistole
11-03-08, 07:57 AM
One because they probably do not belive their religion has been refuted. Two, religion is not about fact but rather about faith. Three, religion has been a glue that has held mankind together throughout history. Granted their have been abuses, and those abuses have been throughly documented. But who really cares if Christians want to continue their belief system as long as they are not forcing others. I say let each to their own. If it gives them comfort and serves as a rule and guide for them...great, as long as they don't cross the line and start forcing people to conform to their viewpoints.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
11-07-08, 10:53 PM
Because they don't want to. Their beliefs make them happy. Why give up something that makes you happy?
They don't seem happy to me.
It hasn't been refuted. For all practical purposes, the refutation of Christianity is wishful thinking at best.
Myself, I am no Christian nor do I support Christianity. Especially the mainstream fire and brimstone version of Christianity is impossible to refute, as its tenets are such that one would have to be at least enlightened to know that they are wrong.
For all practical purposes, Christianity can only be avoided, but not refuted.
It has been refuted.
One because they probably do not belive their religion has been refuted. Two, religion is not about fact but rather about faith. Three, religion has been a glue that has held mankind together throughout history. Granted their have been abuses, and those abuses have been throughly documented. But who really cares if Christians want to continue their belief system as long as they are not forcing others. I say let each to their own. If it gives them comfort and serves as a rule and guide for them...great, as long as they don't cross the line and start forcing people to conform to their viewpoints.
Religion has been much more divisive & destructive than otherwise.
1111
You say that we as Christians are antiquated? Do you personally know of any Christian psychologists or psychiatrists? Have you ever met a Christian who happens to study science or archaeology? Do you have any idea what all a pastor or preacher has to learn in college in order to obtain their position?
You may be surprised at what all Christians really know. What amazes me is that so many people decided to come up with another term for A.D. because of the reference of Anno Domini being translated meaning, "the year of our Lord." Seems kind of anti-religious to get away from that. Oh, and the calendar was changed not too long after Jesus died. Do you still not believe in Him?
Adam and Eve - They were exiled from the garden of Eden for eating from the tree of life. Genesis 3:23 "So the Lord God banished him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken. 24 After he drove the man out, he placed on the east side of the Garden of Eden cherubim and a flaming sword flashing back and forth to guard the way to the tree of life." Basically this meant that nobody was getting into the Garden of Eden. Where this place was...we may never know. All we have in existence today are two rivers that flowed from it.
Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat - Has been found in the Mountains of Ararat, but scientists do not want to come forward and admit it. It is on the Iran side of this mountain range.
The talking serpent - Was also mentioned in Genesis chapter 3. Of course if you don't read the chapter prior to it you may not understand that Adam was in command of all the animals. This particular one was satan in a snake form, which happened to have legs until God cursed him.
The plural gods of Eden - Okay, I give you this, there is no mention of many Gods of Eden in the Holy Bible. This is only one God!
Giants of the Earth - Further reading into the scripture and you will find that these giants are the sons of men. More than likely interbreeding of taller people within families to ensure taller growth. Sort of what we do now.
All the metaphors for Jesus - I really don't know what you mean by this.
Jesus's birth - It did happen, and scientists have proven this in a round about way by the formation of the "Star," which will not occur again for quite some time.
Jesus's life - There are other records of him other than what the Bible has written in it.
Jesus's death - There are Roman records of his death.
Jesus's resurrection - This is just too obvious. If He didn't raise from the dead, you would not have any fear of Christians.
All the witnesses who never saw Jesus - There were over 500 witnesses who saw Him. I haven't seen you, but I believe you exist.
There is more than enough proof that Jesus does exist, it is just your choice to accept that He is real or not. Christians cannot make you believe anything you do not choose to believe.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
02-24-09, 12:34 AM
hdsink
We've been thru all of that over&over&over again.
PieAreSquared
02-24-09, 12:57 AM
Medicine*Woman
they like their warm and fuzzies
Hapsburg
02-24-09, 04:37 AM
Adam and Eve
Not all Christians take that story literally.
The plural gods of Eden
:bugeye:
Noah's Ark on Mount Ararat
Very few take that bit literally.
The talking serpent
See above.
Giants of the Earth
See above.
All the metaphors for Jesus
Be specific.
Jesus's birth
Could be because it's core to their religion? Maybe?
Jesus's life
Which is attested to by Flavius Josephus. Not in much detail, but he does state that there was a preacher named Jesus(Yeshua), brother of a preacher named John(Yohannan), that had a following around Galilee and Jerusalem, and was executed.
Jesus's death
As said above, something attested to by historical records.
Jesus's resurrection
Again, because it is core to their religion. It's not been proven, but it's not been disproven, hence it is taken on faith by them. It's part of their system of belief.
And, why can't christians see the fallacies of their beliefs?
Why can't you stop generalising hundreds of millions of people on the views of an, albeit vocal, minority?
I'm not a Christian, obviously, but I will stand up for them if they are being attacked for simply having a set of beliefs. It's fine to criticise the academic veracity of certain claims, but what you are doing (generalising Christians themselves) is unfair and childish.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
02-24-09, 06:44 AM
Not all Christians take that story literally.
Very few take that bit literally.
See above.
See above.
Be specific.
Could be because it's core to their religion? Maybe?
Which is attested to by Flavius Josephus. Not in much detail, but he does state that there was a preacher named Jesus(Yeshua), brother of a preacher named John(Yohannan), that had a following around Galilee and Jerusalem, and was executed.
As said above, something attested to by historical records.
Again, because it is core to their religion. It's not been proven, but it's not been disproven, hence it is taken on faith by them. It's part of their system of belief.
Why can't you stop generalising hundreds of millions of people on the views of an, albeit vocal, minority?
I'm not a Christian, obviously, but I will stand up for them if they are being attacked for simply having a set of beliefs. It's fine to criticise the academic veracity of certain claims, but what you are doing (generalising Christians themselves) is unfair and childish.
It's not just generalizing, it's stating facts. It's not based on disagreeing views. It's that they make claims with no proof.
We're not attacking them for simply having a set of beliefs. We're attacking the beliefs. Absurd cruel beliefs which are way beyond unfair & childish.
They coerce & force their childish beliefs on others with no respect or regard for others' beliefs or for human rights & dignity.
The Holy Babble clearly states any with other beliefs are evil & are not to be tolerated.
The things you list as not taken literally are in The Holy Babble which they claim to believe & live by.
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