why do unbelievers...

[Jan Ardena]

...have a problem with relating to God as "he" or "him", preferring in most cases to use the terms "it", or "she"?

jan.

[cosmictraveler]

Because it is easier than saying "your mythologicaly made up diety that doesn't exist".:p

[Jan Ardena]

Because it is easier than saying "your mythologicaly made up diety that doesn't exist".:p


Superman is a made up mythology, yet he is regarded as "he".
Plus that does not explain why God is referred to as "she".

jan.

[cosmictraveler]

Superman is a made up mythology, yet he is regarded as "he".
Plus that does not explain why God is referred to as "she".

jan.

Superman is a "comic" .

[JDawg]

...have a problem with relating to God as "he" or "him", preferring in most cases to use the terms "it", or "she"?

jan.

I think you'll find that when someone references "it", it's probably because they aren't speaking of the god of Abraham specifically. The word "god" is not simply the name of yours, but the name of a kind of being, also.

As far as "she"...I dunno/

[Jan Ardena]

Superman is a "comic" .


Which consists of superman, who can fly, stop bullets, run faster than trains, who is regarded as "he". :)

I think you'll find that when someone references "it", it's probably because they aren't speaking of the god of Abraham specifically. The word "god" is not simply the name of yours, but the name of a kind of being, also.

I can dig that. But if the truth be told people
still use the terms when discussing christianity
and the bible.

jan

[JDawg]

I can dig that. But if the truth be told people
still use the terms when discussing christianity
and the bible.

jan

I haven't personally heard of anyone doing that to be disparaging. But perhaps the people you have were doing it that way.

[Varda]

Superman is a made up mythology, yet he is regarded as "he".
Plus that does not explain why God is referred to as "she".

jan.

so, god is male or what?

[JDawg]

so, god is male or what?

Of course! Isn't it obvious that a being alone in it's own kind with no need for procreation or a mate would have a gender?

[Varda]

... no, it isn't obvious at all

could he/she/it not be both sexes, and even a third or fourth sex if he/she/it wanted?

[greenberg]

...have a problem with relating to God as "he" or "him", preferring in most cases to use the terms "it", or "she"?

As for "it" - Because they have an impersonalist notion of God.
Hence the whole "God cannot be known", "God doesn't communicate" shebang.


As for "she" - That is feminist angst, or patriarchal supremacy.


:itold:

[Jan Ardena]

so, god is male or what?

That appears to be scriptoral consensus.

jan.

[Varda]

does god have a penis?

[Jan Ardena]

As for "it" - Because they have an impersonalist notion of God.
Hence the whole "God cannot be known", "God doesn't communicate" shebang.


As for "she" - That is feminist angst, or patriarchal supremacy.


:itold:

1) they believe God is an imaginary being sometimes using the term "sky daddy" (male)
2) they regard God as a person when they believe that God is evil.

As for the "she", that would make more sense if it were made by women alone, with the exception of effeminate men.

jan.

[JDawg]

... no, it isn't obvious at all

could he/she/it not be both sexes, and even a third or fourth sex if he/she/it wanted?

I was kidding.

[Varda]

I was kidding.

for some reason I thought that post was jan's :)

[Varda]

1) they believe God is an imaginary being sometimes using the term "sky daddy" (male)
2) they regard God as a person when they believe that God is evil.

As for the "she", that would make more sense if it were made by women alone, with the exception of effeminate men.

jan.

they generalize
so do you

[Jan Ardena]

does god have a penis?

Why would you want to know that?
I suspect that God can create by any part of his spiritual anatomy, as everything must be absolutely equal to everything else, and I can't imagine there be need for any waste disposal units.
So before even attempting to answer that question, the question of "is it necessary" becomes the focus.

jan.

[JDawg]

Why would you want to know that?
I suspect that God can create by any part of his spiritual anatomy, as everything must be absolutely equal to everything else, and I can't imagine there be need for any waste disposal units.
So before even attempting to answer that question, the question of "is it necessary" becomes the focus.

jan.

Considering that sex organs, chromosomes, and hormones define the sexes, how could it possibly be that this God is a male without those features?

[Varda]

Why would you want to know that?
I suspect that God can create by any part of his spiritual anatomy, as everything must be absolutely equal to everything else, and I can't imagine there be need for any waste disposal units.
So before even attempting to answer that question, the question of "is it necessary" becomes the focus.

jan.

does he have testicles? does he have a Y chromossome?
what defines someone as a male?
can god have a vagina too?
can he have a dozen penii?
if it is not necessary for god to have a sex, why would he have a sex?
do you realize how silly this topic is?

[Jan Ardena]

Considering that sex organs, chromosomes, and hormones define the sexes, how could it possibly be that this God is a male without those features?

Because a male is not necessarily defined purely by those features.

jan.

[JDawg]

I think the question is, what makes him a man?

[JDawg]

Because a male is not necessarily defined purely by those features.

jan.

Since when? What other definition is there?

[Jan Ardena]

I think the question is, what makes him a man?

God isn't a man.

jan.

[JDawg]

God isn't a man.

jan.

Then why is he called a he?

[Jan Ardena]

Since when? What other definition is there?

Character.

Then why is he called a he?

Because he is male.

jan

[JDawg]

Character.

Bogus. What character traits do you associate strictly with a male?



Because he is male.

jan

But you just said he wasn't a man? Is he a boy, then?

[Mr. Hamtastic]

A gendered God? lol I doubt that God cares whether we assign gender to him. I'm lazy though, and tend to follow the speech patterns of those who seem more well-read than I. Thus, I define God as he when it works just as well. I like referring to God as God and other gods as gods or by their name. YHWH is a pain to type, and I'm not jewish, so I don't use that. I think that the first ideas about God came about during a time when Paternal autocracies were beginning to form, thus they defined God as Father and Him. I could be wrong of course.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

God is all things, if you insist on gendering God, you may find you have put him into your God box which is a strange place for an infinite being.

[greenberg]

does god have a penis?

Aww, but what you really want to know is if God has a penis, what does he do with it, right? :o

[Varda]

hell yes
wouldn't you want to know?

[MacGyver1968]

does he have testicles? does he have a Y chromossome?
what defines someone as a male?
can god have a vagina too?
can he have a dozen penii?
if it is not necessary for god to have a sex, why would he have a sex?
do you realize how silly this topic is?


According to the movie "Pinapple Express" about some super-weed of the same name...which..according to the movie was to supposed to have "Smelled like god's vagina, and smokes like killing a unicorn". I would assume that meant god was female. :)

And if god is male and has a penis...does he jack off?

[JDawg]

YHWH is a pain to type, and I'm not jewish, so I don't use that.

I'm pretty sure Jews aren't allowed to use it, either.

[greenberg]

1) they believe God is an imaginary being sometimes using the term "sky daddy" (male)
2) they regard God as a person when they believe that God is evil.

True, which means that their notion of God is not consistent or unified, but rather made up of several - even mutually exclusive - notions, sometimes impersonalist, sometimes not.

"Sky daddy" can simply be male for language reasons.

Evil is easiest to imagine when we imagine a person being evil - because for there to be evil, the common idea is that evil intention is necessary. We don't tend to think that volcanoes or bacteria are evil.


As for the "she", that would make more sense if it were made by women alone, with the exception of effeminate men.

Feminism is in some ways something many men support. Feminism after all implies a greater willingness of women to engage in casual sex - which is many men want.

[Jan Ardena]

JDawg,

Bogus. What character traits do you associate strictly with a male?

Where does the "strictly" come from?
Dominance is a trait asociated with maleness.

But you just said he wasn't a man? Is he a boy, then?

So to be male, means you have to be either man or boy, does it?

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

greenberg,

"Sky daddy" can simply be male for language reasons.

I think it is obvious that God is male, from the scriptoral point of view at least.

Feminism is in some ways something many men support. Feminism after all implies a greater willingness of women to engage in casual sex - which is many men want.

And casual sex isn't good for family life.

jan.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Jan-one christian to another-God's bigger than a breadbox. He invented time, and gender, why does God need to have a gender?

[greenberg]

I think it is obvious that God is male, from the scriptoral point of view at least.

Yes. I think there also needs to be more clarity about what God's maleness is like.
Because if God is a male like many human males are like - puffed up, making empty promises, shying away from responsibility, a fat couch potato who views women as sexual objects, someone with poor regard for his hygiene, and so on - then we are really bad off.


And casual sex isn't good for family life.

Of course not.

[greenberg]

Jan-one christian to another-

What makes you think Jan is a Christian?

[CutsieMarie89]

A spiritual being like God can not be defined by human standards. If God exists outside of space and time, then God certainly exists outside of gender. We as humans just have a difficult time fathoming things that do not fit neatly into our realm of understanding, i.e. everything has a beginning and end, everything is either male or female. God has no gender. People shouldn't use pronouns when referring to the Christian God.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

If Jan is not a christian, then they are amzingly studious of common christian beliefs and philosophies.

[Michael]

...have a problem with relating to God as "he" or "him", preferring in most cases to use the terms "it", or "she"?

jan.In the Japanese creation myth there is a Goddess.

But, the real reason is because we all know the sky-daddy is a reflection of our past need for an alpha-male monkey. So, to try to get theists to think, we say It or She. Which they hate to do and so it hurts their head and hence this thread.

Second of all, if you think of an all knowing all powerful God, that can not learn anything new or even feel emotions like "I'm shocked!" ... well, your god is like a big hard-drive, a memory device controlling a virtual world.
This thing you worship can't even "Think". "It's" therefor not even a rational being. So, I think IT is much more an apt term.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

A spiritual being like God can not be defined by human standards. If God exists outside of space and time, then God certainly exists outside of gender. We as humans just have a difficult time fathoming things that do not fit neatly into our realm of understanding, i.e. everything has a beginning and end, everything is either male or female. God has no gender. People shouldn't use pronouns when referring to the Christian God.

Nothing exists outside of space & time. As long as anything exists, there is space & time.

[spidergoat]

I think when atheists do it, it is to point out how the sex of a devine king is clearly the reflection of those that created this character in the first place. A male God in a patriarchal culture is entirely expected.

[Jan Ardena]

Jan-one christian to another-God's bigger than a breadbox. He invented time, and gender, why does God need to have a gender?

I doubt that gender is something that is needed.

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

Michael,

In the Japanese creation myth there is a Goddess.

Goddesses play a different role in universal affairs, to Gods.

But, the real reason is because we all know the sky-daddy is a reflection of our past need for an alpha-male monkey. So, to try to get theists to think, we say It or She. Which they hate to do and so it hurts their head and hence this thread.

So basically you use it to attack the theists sensibilities?

Second of all, if you think of an all knowing all powerful God, that can not learn anything new or even feel emotions like "I'm shocked!" ... well, your god is like a big hard-drive, a memory device controlling a virtual world.
This thing you worship can't even "Think". "It's" therefor not even a rational being. So, I think IT is much more an apt term.

Have you read any scriptures?
If you have - like Bruce Lee at the start of Enter the Dragon where he chastises the boy student; What was that?

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

CutsieMarie89,

A spiritual being like God can not be defined by human standards.

Male and female is not a standard.

If God exists outside of space and time, then God certainly exists outside of gender.

I don't believe that gender is a constraint.

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

I think when atheists do it, it is to point out how the sex of a devine king is clearly the reflection of those that created this character in the first place. A male God in a patriarchal culture is entirely expected.


But you have no evidence that God is a created character.
You conclusion only serves to justify your world view.
The fact is that God is scriptorally defined as male (energy) in his role, so why deny it.

jan.

[spidergoat]

Actually, creativity is more naturally characterized as a female trait.

[YinyangDK]

does he have testicles? does he have a Y chromossome?
what defines someone as a male?
can god have a vagina too?
can he have a dozen penii?
if it is not necessary for god to have a sex, why would he have a sex?
do you realize how silly this topic is?

Now you are asking the right questions!
Here comes the fun part, for all you belivers in a god/gods.

If it is not necessary for the god to have sex, why would he have ses?

Is it nesessary for scienceists to have sex to reproduce or are the able to recreate/make life in the lab?

Now I know that it is difficult for you belivers to think realistic but,
What would the beings made in the lab think about their creators?
Would they think of them as gods?
Would they stare up in awe?
Or does it matter at all what they do or do not do?

[YinyangDK]

Why would you want to know that?
I suspect that God can create by any part of his spiritual anatomy, as everything must be absolutely equal to everything else, and I can't imagine there be need for any waste disposal units.
So before even attempting to answer that question, the question of "is it necessary" becomes the focus.

No it is not nesessary to know the genter of our creator.
But if you are thinking of heaven as being earth beliving in the same god and doing his bitting, then we as a race mighe as well become ants.
Everything is equal and there is no waste.

[Jan Ardena]

Varda,

does he have testicles? does he have a Y chromossome?[/quotes]

God is not material, scriptoral definition.

[QUOTE]what defines someone as a male?

The dictionary describes "male" as;

...producing sperm: relating or belonging to the sex that produces sperm to fertilize female eggs

This is about procreation

Procreate means to produce offspring by reproduction.
So God procreates, but not in the way we do. In every scripture there is some example of Gods' creative ability, and none of them involve sexual intercourse (to my knowledge anyways).
Need I go into the genesis scenario?

can god have a vagina too?

That's just another silly point.
Why would God want a vagina?

can he have a dozen penii?

If you care to seriously read up on the nature of God,
you will understand he is, ultimately, source of everything, so everything ultimately, must belongs to him.
Now whether or not you believe that, is not the question, so don't bother with the "there is no evidence" rhetoric.
You do not need to believe in something, in order to gather a basic understanding of that thing.

if it is not necessary for god to have a sex, why would he have a sex?

If by procreation, through interaction with material nature, then I suppose you could call it sex if you want to. But that definition wouldn't really explain the creative process described in scriptoral terms.

do you realize how silly this topic is?

I realize how silly you are, and your attempts to degrade the topic. :)

Alot of atheists don't seem to be able to bring themselves to refer to God as "he" or "him", prefering to use terms like "it", "she".

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

No it is not nesessary to know the genter of our creator.
But if you are thinking of heaven as being earth beliving in the same god and doing his bitting, then we as a race mighe as well become ants.
Everything is equal and there is no waste.

The point of this thread is to find out why atheists, more often than not, do not refer to God as "he", why they prefer the labels "it" or "she".
Especially when, the being understood to be God (regardless of belief status) is referred to as "he".
Not to determined whether God is a male or female.

jan.

[JDawg]

JDawg,

Where does the "strictly" come from?

Think about it. No physical characteristics of a male, so we have to get into behavioral characteristics. In order to give God a gender, you'd have to be able to give him traits that belong only to a male.

Dominance is a trait asociated with maleness.

And females. And where is this trait in God?

So to be male, means you have to be either man or boy, does it?

You could be an adolescent, too. Are you contending that God is a teenager? I mean, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about here, and now you're just stalling until you can find something on Google that supports your ridiculous effort to argue about God's gender.

You lost. Get over it.

[spidergoat]

The point of this thread is to find out why atheists, more often than not, do not refer to God as "he", why they prefer the labels "it" or "she".
Especially when, the being understood to be God (regardless of belief status) is referred to as "he".
Not to determined whether God is a male or female.

jan.

Only humans can be he or she. God is such an extraordinary notion, I don't see how the normal labels could apply.

[Jan Ardena]

JDawg,

Think about it. No physical characteristics of a male, so we have to get into behavioral characteristics.

1) Let us make man in our own image?
2 Unless you're not from this planet there are difference between male and female, which can be labelled as characteristics.
3) Objects, and systems are also labelled as male and female.
4) A man actions can be called effeminate, and a womans actions can be called masculine.
5) People of a particular gender often feel they are not the gender they are percieved as.
6) not all male species carries the y chromosome, or has sexual intercourse to procreate.

In order to give God a gender, you'd have to be able to give him traits that belong only to a male.

If he is the original male, which is his scriptoral definition, not mine, why?

And females. And where is this trait in God?

Females can be dominant, yes. And from my neck of the wood we regard that as a masculine signature. So yes, females have male traits and males have female traits. That would make sense if we are a combination of spirit and matter.

I mean, you obviously have no clue what you're talking about here, and now you're just stalling until you can find something on Google that supports your ridiculous effort to argue about God's gender.

So I take it you won't be referring to God as he, despite the scriptoral designation. May I ask why?

You lost. Get over it.

Lost what?
Maybe you should focus on the discussion, rather than trying to win it, its so much more fun.

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

Only humans can be he or she. God is such an extraordinary notion, I don't see how the normal labels could apply.

So what about pets, automobiles, ships....

jan.

[JDawg]

JDawg,



1) Let us make man in our own image?
2 Unless you're not from this planet there are difference between male and female, which can be labelled as characteristics.
3) Objects, and systems are also labelled as male and female.
4) A man actions can be called effeminate, and a womans actions can be called masculine.
5) People of a particular gender often feel they are not the gender they are percieved as.
6) not all male species carries the y chromosome, or has sexual intercourse to procreate.

So what makes God a male?


If he is the original male, which is his scriptoral definition, not mine, why?

Because it's never explained.


Females can be dominant, yes. And from my neck of the wood we regard that as a masculine signature. So yes, females have male traits and males have female traits. That would make sense if we are a combination of spirit and matter.

But in other necks of the woods, dominance would be considered a female trait.

So I take it you won't be referring to God as he, despite the scriptoral designation. May I ask why?

When did I say I wouldn't be?

Lost what?
Maybe you should focus on the discussion, rather than trying to win it, its so much more fun.

jan.

I've already won. You maintain that God is male, and even tried to argue why he was male, then failed, and now you're falling back on this "scriptural definition" BS because you know you can't support it. But in doing so, you've just demonstrated that you're an unthinking, unquestioning lemming.

[CutsieMarie89]

CutsieMarie89,



Male and female is not a standard.



I don't believe that gender is a constraint.

jan.

And in what universe do you live in where humans don't have gender? It drives most people crazy if they don't know what gender someone is. And all human notions are constraints when placed upon a being like God.

[greenberg]

And in what universe do you live in where humans don't have gender? It drives most people crazy if they don't know what gender someone is.

And in what universe do you live? :o


And all human notions are constraints when placed upon a being like God.

I am not sure whether, for example, "infinitely merciful" or "infinitely powerful" are human notions, but they sure don't seem constraining to me.

[Enmos]

1) Let us make man in our own image?

Jan, I'm not clear on something. Who are God's pals ?

[JDawg]

Jan, I'm not clear on something. Who are God's pals ?

Yet another thing they can't address.

[MacGyver1968]

Jan, I'm not clear on something. Who are God's pals ?

I think he's a part of something like "The Justice League"...like from the comic books...with all the other deities. :)

[JDawg]

I think he's a part of something like "The Justice League"...like from the comic books...with all the other deities. :)

Yes! I wonder what his name was there...? Wouldn't it be funny if he was the weak link in that group? Like, whenever he came in, everyone else was like "Sigh...here comes Yahweh again...sheesh. Can't we get rid of this guy?"

[Enmos]

I think he's a part of something like "The Justice League"...like from the comic books...with all the other deities. :)

Yes! I wonder what his name was there...? Wouldn't it be funny if he was the weak link in that group? Like, whenever he came in, everyone else was like "Sigh...here comes Yahweh again...sheesh. Can't we get rid of this guy?"

lol :D

[jpappl]

Great.

So we got stuck with the lame god.

[Enmos]

The one with no real super powers ?

[Michael]

Jan,

Goddesses play a different role in universal affairs, to Gods.yeah, so?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Amaterasu_cave_edit2.jpg

So basically you use it to attack the theists sensibilities?"attack" their "sensibilities" ... hardly. It's to try to get theists to think about the FACT that other culttrue represent the main God as woman. THAT in and of itself should get theists to thinking about just why we made up Gods. Obviously in a culture where women were revered for their ability to bring life into the world, they represented the main God as a woman.

If you lived in ancient Athens you'd be worshiping a Goddess. Athena. That's a FACT Jan. And if you met your contemporary self, you'd condemn yourself to death for atheism - denial of the Gods and Goddesses.

So, yeah, when I write Xenu, or She or It, I am trying to get theists to see their own religious biases from a different angle. That's NOT attacking your sensibility, its offering your a different perspective.

[Michael]

Tell me Jan, what are your thoughts on the Japanese Shinto religion?

Does it have merit? Do you think it is a good belief system? If you to visit Japan, will you give offerings to their Gods and Goddesses?


http://www.geocities.com/ominaga2/kitsune_shrine.jpg

http://www.geocities.com/ominaga2/kitsune_anime.jpg

[(Q)]

Ships are referred to as females.

[jpappl]

I've seen some goddesses I would worship.

[Jan Ardena]

JDawg,

So what makes God a male?

What makes Superman a he?

Because it's never explained.

So what?

But in other necks of the woods, dominance would be considered a female trait.

I doubt that very much.
A matriarchal society, if such things exist, most probably run by women because they are respected as mother, not because they are dominant.

When did I say I wouldn't be?

This question is a little assumptive don't you think.

I've already won.

Even when you lose, you win, how convenient.

You maintain that God is male, and even tried to argue why he was male, then failed, and now you're falling back on this "scriptural definition" BS because you know you can't support it.

I maintain that God is described as male in all major scriptures.
Some people can't bring themselves to calling God "he" or "him", choosing instead to refer to him as "it", or "she".
In case you hadn't noticed, God is the point of scriptures, so I fail to see how using scriptoral definitions to understand that "he" is regarded as a "he", not a "it" or a "she", puts me in a losing position.

But in doing so, you've just demonstrated that you're an unthinking, unquestioning lemming.

Why? Because I refer to God as "he", and "him"?
What is so unquestioning, and lemming like about that?
Or are you referring to my theistic notions? :)

jan.

[swarm]

God is definitely a shemale.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

God was created in the image of man.

[glaucon]

Jan,
...
That's NOT attacking your sensibility, its offering your a different perspective.

Michael,

Although no theist myself, I must say you've made a number of good points. It's refreshing to see someone herein making use of reason.
However, I'm afraid that you will find Jan to be quite intolerant of both sensibility and perspective.

An intolerant Christian, imagine that....



God was created in the image of man.


A truer statement was never said.

[Jan Ardena]

Michael,

yeah, so?

What do you mean "yeah, so?".

"attack" their "sensibilities" ... hardly. It's to try to get theists to think about the FACT that other culttrue represent the main God as woman.

You mean their main 'god', or in this case 'goddess'?
What's your point here?
They don't believe in God.

THAT in and of itself should get theists to thinking about just why we made up Gods. Obviously in a culture where women were revered for their ability to bring life into the world, they represented the main God as a woman.

This is irrelevant to the topic.

So, yeah, when I write Xenu, or She or It, I am trying to get theists to see their own religious biases from a different angle. That's NOT attacking your sensibility, its offering your a different perspective.

Most theists here are muslim, or christian. Most arguments here are aimed at christianity, then islam. Most attention is paid to the personality of God, in the bible, and then, in the qur'an. The personality of God in both scriptures are described as male.
So despite your benevolent attempts, why can't you accept that these personalities, despite you belief status, are classified as male and refer to them thusly.

If i refer to you as "it" or "she" (if you are male), wouldn't you be curious as to my reasoning?
Or, if I referred to your mother as "it" and "he", wouldn't you be curious as to why?

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

God was created in the image of man.

Your missing the point.

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

glaucon,

Although no theist myself, I must say you've made a number of good points. It's refreshing to see someone herein making use of reason.

What good points has he made?
The shinto religion does not believe in God.
Amaterasu, the goddess in question, is not regarded as a supreme being.
Some hindus worship goddesses and gods, its nothing new, nor does it contradict the worship of a supreme being.
Where is his reasoning relevant, why you admire it so much?

However, I'm afraid that you will find Jan to be quite intolerant of both sensibility and perspective.

Your fear is totally unjustified.

An intolerant Christian, imagine that....

Why do you think I am a christian, what to speak of intolerent?
It is polite to converse with someone before you designate them, or accuse them of intolerence.

A truer statement was never said.

Prove that God was created in the image of man.

jan.

[Enmos]

What makes Superman a he?

For starters it's Superman. Especially relevant since there's also a Superwoman.

Also:
"kind of costume and let's give him a big S on his chest, and a cape, make him as colorful as we can and as distinctive as we can." ~Jerry Siegel.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Superman#Creation_and_conception

In case you're wondering...
Jerome "Jerry" Siegel (October 17, 1914 – January 28, 1996), who also used pseudonyms including Joe Carter,[1] Jerry Ess,[1] and Herbert S. Fine, was the American co-creator of Superman (along with Joe Shuster), the first of the great comic book superheroes and one of the most recognizable fictional characters of the 20th century.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerry_Siegel

And finally, the first page of the first superman action comic ever, behold:

http://xroads.virginia.edu/~UG02/yeung/actioncomics/images/page1.jpg

Notice the very first sentence of the very first picture. It says:
"As a distant planet was destroyed by old age, a scientist placed his infant son within a hastily devised space-ship, launching it toward Earth !"

You see I can provide this kind of proof because Superman is a fictional character.
The ONLY way you can provide such evidence is if either you declare God a fictional character, or if God ITself comes down here and provides the proof.

[jpappl]

Enmos,

I am going to ask you one more time and one more time only !

Are you sure superman is a he ?

[Enmos]

Enmos,

I am going to ask you one more time and one more time only !

Are you sure superman is a he ?

lol :rolleyes:

[one_raven]

Your book says Superman is a he.
Her book says God is a he.
My book says "I do not like them, Sam-I-am".

[Enmos]

Your book says Superman is a he.
Her book says God is a he.
My book says "I do not like them, Sam-I-am".

Yea but the difference is that Superman is a fictional character. I can only prove Superman is a he because he indeed is a fictional character.
His creators said so.. and since they are the ones that created him.. well.. it almost seems to obvious, doesn't it ;)

You see I can provide this kind of proof because Superman is a fictional character.
The ONLY way you can provide such evidence is if either you declare God a fictional character, or if God ITself comes down here and provides the proof.

[swarm]

jpappl
Are you sure superman is a he?

So are you accusing superman of being transgendered?

No I get it, you are pronoun challenged! Sorry, didn't realize you were "special."

Superman is portrayed as a male fictional character. For male characters the common usage is to select the pronoun "he." So yes, barring an unforeseen plot twist, everyone is sure superman is a he.

Now the ever popular fictional god is harder to pin down. In the myths he is portrayed as a guy, but theologians have trouble sexing a god and so they either neuter him or make him part female, the holy ghost is popular for this trick. Of course other religions sensibly make him a her, or hims and hers as needed.

[Enmos]

So are you accusing superman of being transgendered?

No I get it, you are pronoun challenged! Sorry, didn't realize you were "special."

Superman is portrayed as a male fictional character. For male characters the common usage is to select the pronoun "he." So yes, barring an unforeseen plot twist, everyone is sure superman is a he.

Now your fictional god is harder to pin down. In the myths he is portrayed as a guy, but theologians have trouble sexing a god and so they either neuter him or make him part female, like the holy ghost is popular for this trick. Of course other religions sensibly make him a her, or hims and hers as needed.

Well IF all the theists were to decide that God is a fictional character, they can prove God is a he.. no problem ;)

[one_raven]

Yea but the difference is that Superman is a fictional character. I can only prove Superman is a he because he indeed is a fictional character.
His creators said so.. and since they are the ones that created him.. well.. it almost seems to obvious, doesn't it ;)

Gotcha.
I'm a little slow in my tired state right now.
I wish I was in REM state. :)

I still like my book better.

[Enmos]

Gotcha.
I'm a little slow in my tired state right now.
I wish I was in REM state. :)

I still like my book better.

:)
What is your book actually ? You mean your view or an actual book ?
Sorry, I'm a bit slow as well.. down with the flue atm.

[one_raven]

Green Eggs and Ham by Dr Seuss. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Eggs_and_Ham)

One of the greatest philosophy books ever written.

[Enmos]

:D lol

[one_raven]

You didn't recognize the "I do not like them, Sam-I-am" line?

[Enmos]

You didn't recognize the "I do not like them, Sam-I-am" line?

I don't know the books that well. I have read one or two back when I was a kid though, I think.

[one_raven]

You should.
It's never too late, and you are certainly never too old.
And there really is some great wisdom and inspiration in some of them.

[swarm]

Read his books, you must! you must!
Soon you'll talk like thus! like thus!

[one_raven]

"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr Seuss

[Enmos]

Yea, that sounds simple enough ;)

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Your missing the point.

jan.

No.

[Carico]

Because it is easier than saying "your mythologicaly made up diety that doesn't exist".:p

Considering that you have to make up your own history to deny that Jesus is Lord, then it's unbelievers who have to live in a fantasy land, not us. Sorry. ;)

[JDawg]

JDawg,



What makes Superman a he?

His penis.

So what?

It begs the question as to why he is defined as a man.

I doubt that very much.
A matriarchal society, if such things exist, most probably run by women because they are respected as mother, not because they are dominant.

And you base that on...what, exactly? A hunch? Certainly not any facts. Have you ever met a woman before?

This question is a little assumptive don't you think.

Says the one who just assumed that dominance is not ever mistaken as a female trait.

I maintain that God is described as male in all major scriptures.
Some people can't bring themselves to calling God "he" or "him", choosing instead to refer to him as "it", or "she".
In case you hadn't noticed, God is the point of scriptures, so I fail to see how using scriptoral definitions to understand that "he" is regarded as a "he", not a "it" or a "she", puts me in a losing position.

Because the question is "what makes him a male?" and though you've floundered about trying to come up with a reasonable answer, you haven't. If your answer is "it's scripture" then why the dance about "He's not a man," or "What makes Superman a man?" If I'm correct, all that was meant to serve as filler. It had no substance, because you didn't support it with anything.

Why? Because I refer to God as "he", and "him"?

What is so unquestioning, and lemming like about that?
Or are you referring to my theistic notions? :)

jan.

It's an aspect of your theistic notions that you wouldn't ever feel the need to question what makes God a male. You simply accept it. That's the sign of a weak mind.

[CutsieMarie89]

And in what universe do you live? :o




I am not sure whether, for example, "infinitely merciful" or "infinitely powerful" are human notions, but they sure don't seem constraining to me.

The universe where humans have genders, perhaps I am under some illusion. If there is no such thing as gender and it is not a human standard then no one should complain if I were to put my son's hair in a ponytail tied with a bow, dress in a frilly Easter dress, and have him wear t-strap shoes (those are so cute, I used to wear them). :rolleyes:
And since humans cannot be infinitely merciful, (which God isn't, he's got a pretty short fuse, if you read the Old Testament) nor can they be infinitely powerful these ideas cannot be truly understood by humans, just like having no beginning cannot be fully understood by humans, we just accept it as something God understands and we do not.
I have no problem with calling God he if that's what he wants to be called, then so be it. It seems to me though that God would only do this for our benefit as lowly humans, so we can lump him into a box as humans tend to be fond of doing.

[jpappl]

Swarm,

You got me wrong, I was just joking with Enmos.

"“ jpappl
Are you sure superman is a he? ”

So are you accusing superman of being transgendered?

No I get it, you are pronoun challenged! Sorry, didn't realize you were "special."

Enmos did such a complete and thorough job of proving that Superman was and is a he that I couldn't resist joking about it.

Enmos understood.

"
“ Originally Posted by jpappl
Enmos,

I am going to ask you one more time and one more time only !

Are you sure superman is a he ? ”

lol "

[swarm]

It would be more ironic to have superman transgendered.

[jpappl]

Swarm,

"Of course other religions sensibly make him a her"

I wouldn't mind worshipping a goddess. If she was hot ! Like Wonder Woman.

"It would be more ironic to have superman transgendered."

Or if god was. LOL

[Jan Ardena]

JDawg

His penis.

Ok, so let's say his creator created him with a penis. This means he can, with the collaberation of a female, he produce off-spring.
God produces off spring, and we can understand that he used the natural elements to place his seed (collaberation).

It begs the question as to why he is defined as a man.

I think you're mistaking me for someone else. I, nor any scripture (to my knowledge), as ever defined God as a man.

Have you ever met a woman before?

Never.
I hear they've got fleas. :D

Says the one who just assumed that dominance is not ever mistaken as a female trait.

I don't think dominance is a feminie trait, but females can, and obviously do project dominance, and males can easily project femininity.
To be dominant in the real sense requires masculinity, hense the term 'ladet'.

Because the question is "what makes him a male?" and though


It doesn't matter what makes him male, as far as your concerned he's not real.

...you've floundered about trying to come up with a reasonable answer, you haven't.

Wrong.
I have.

If your answer is "it's scripture" then why the dance about "He's not a man," or "What makes Superman a man?"

Which man can create like the character God does?
If you refer to superman as a "he", because he is portrayed that way, then why not refer to God as "he" because he is portrayed that way?
Why, when refering to the biblical, and Koran(ical) character do you use references like "it", and "she", when in fact they are not portrayed that way?

If I'm correct, all that was meant to serve as filler. It had no substance, because you didn't support it with anything.

It has substance, but like some folks refusal to refer to God at least how he is portrayed, you straight-ahead refuse to accept it has substance.

It's an aspect of your theistic notions that you wouldn't ever feel the need to question what makes God a male. You simply accept it. That's the sign of a weak mind.

What a load of arrogant bollocks. :rolleyes:
It doesn't matter what I accept, can you not see that?
What matters is (as far as this thread is concerned), why atheists in particular (not all) cannot bring themselves to refer to God as "he", prefering to use terms like "it", "she", and terms which are obvioiusly derogative.

It's just simple question.
Deal with it.

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

Well IF all the theists were to decide that God is a fictional character, they can prove God is a he.. no problem ;)

If he is a fictional character (which the atheists in question do), and is portrayed as "he", then he is a "he".
What's the point of not accepting that?

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

Jan, I'm not clear on something. Who are God's pals ?

What does it matter to you?

jan.

[jpappl]

I wouldn't want to hang around someone who I can't question or challenge and if I did would turn me into something hideous. My friends aren't like that fortunately.

[Jan Ardena]

Male and female is not a standard.
I don't believe that gender is a constraint.


And in what universe do you live in where humans don't have gender? It drives most people crazy if they don't know what gender someone is. And all human notions are constraints when placed upon a being like God.

Because we have male and female attributes, doesn't mean that male and female end with the universe. To me male and female is about interactions and relationships, not molecules and atoms.
God, whether you believe in him or not, clearly has interactions and relationships with others.
Human notions is necessary in wanting to understand God. We can understand some aspects of God through understanding ourselves, not everything of course. But enough to come to certain realisations.

jan .

[KennyJC]

...have a problem with relating to God as "he" or "him", preferring in most cases to use the terms "it", or "she"?

jan.

Well I think images of god with male/female reproduction organs gives additional humor to the notion of an intelligent first cause.

[Jan Ardena]

I wouldn't want to hang around someone who I can't question or challenge and if I did would turn me into something hideous. My friends aren't like that fortunately.

I'm not sure who and/or what you are addressing with this.

jan.

[jpappl]

who are Gods pals ?

[Jan Ardena]

who are Gods pals ?

What do you mean?

jan.

[CutsieMarie89]

Because we have male and female attributes, doesn't mean that male and female end with the universe. To me male and female is about interactions and relationships, not molecules and atoms.
God, whether you believe in him or not, clearly has interactions and relationships with others.
Human notions is necessary in wanting to understand God. We can understand some aspects of God through understanding ourselves, not everything of course. But enough to come to certain realisations.

jan .

What do you mean by molecules and atoms? Humans can't understand God, regardless of our efforts. That's why humans aren't supposed to question God.

[jpappl]

Jan,

“ Originally Posted by Enmos
Jan, I'm not clear on something. Who are God's pals ? ”

What does it matter to you?

“ Originally Posted by jpappl
who are Gods pals ? ”

What do you mean?

jan."

Jan, it's a joke. Trying to be funny. It's nothing significant.

I'm not looking for a serious answer to the question.

[Enmos]

If he is a fictional character (which the atheists in question do), and is portrayed as "he", then he is a "he".
What's the point of not accepting that?

jan.

The point is that theist do NOT claim God is a fictional character and still claim to know for certain that God is a he. That's the problem here.

[Enmos]

What does it matter to you?

jan.

I'm curious that's all. According to your quote God said "Let us make man in our own image?"
I was always under the impression that God created man on his (assuming God's a he for a sec, hope you don't mind ;)) own.
But apparently he had some help, or was part of a group of equal gods.
So I ask you, as you are a self-proclaimed Christian, who the others were that were in league with God creating us.

[Jan Ardena]

The point is that theist do NOT claim God is a fictional character and still claim to know for certain that God is a he. That's the problem here.

Some folks believe the characters portrayed in soap operas are actually who they portray, but it doesn't change the fact these portrayals are understood by both believers and non-believers alike.
The term theist, is not a one size fits all situation, other than a theist believes in God. Unless you know every theists position on belief, how are you so certain that they claim to know for certain that God is a he.
And to add to that. I haven't claimed any knowledge of whether God is a "he".
I am refering to God as a "he" because he is defined in scriptures as "he".

jan.

[Michael]

Jan, what are your thoughts on the Japanese Shinto religion?

Does it have merit? Do you think it is a good belief system? If you to visit Japan, will you give offerings to their Gods and Goddesses?

[Enmos]

Some folks believe the characters portrayed in soap operas are actually who they portray, but it doesn't change the fact these portrayals are understood by both believers and non-believers alike.
The term theist, is not a one size fits all situation, other than a theist believes in God. Unless you know every theists position on belief, how are you so certain that they claim to know for certain that God is a he.
And to add to that. I haven't claimed any knowledge of whether God is a "he".
I am refering to God as a "he" because he is defined in scriptures as "he".

jan.

I didn't mean ALL theists, I meant the ones that do claim God is a he, and there are plenty.
You also made it appear you believe God is a he. Further.. you replied to a post of mine that wasn't even directed at you.

I rather want you to answer post 115. Thanks :)

[Jan Ardena]

Enmos,

I can't imagine why you are so adamant about wanting to know who Gods' asociates were, especially as you do not, nor are likely to believe any explanation or that God himself exists.

The bible does not explain who the "us" are in that quote, not to my knowledge anyway.
However, in the qur'an, the cow 2.30, Allah (God) says;

Lo! I am about to place
a viceroy in the earth, they said:

Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee ?

He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.

In the next verse he goes on to say;

And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.

While this does not directly answer your question, it gives insight into Gods' asociates before Adam was created on the earth.

jan.

[Enmos]

Enmos,

I can't imagine why you are so adamant about wanting to know who Gods' asociates were, especially as you do not, nor are likely to believe any explanation or that God himself exists.

The bible does not explain who the "us" are in that quote, not to my knowledge anyway.
However, in the qur'an, the cow 2.30, Allah (God) says;

Lo! I am about to place
a viceroy in the earth, they said:

Wilt thou place therein one who will do harm therein and will shed blood, while we, we hymn Thy praise and sanctify Thee ?

He said: Surely I know that which ye know not.

In the next verse he goes on to say;

And He taught Adam all the names, then showed them to the angels, saying: Inform Me of the names of these, if ye are truthful.

While this does not directly answer your question, it gives insight into Gods' asociates before Adam was created on the earth.

jan.

You mean they were angels ?
Jan, I'm just curious :)

[Jan Ardena]

Jan, what are your thoughts on the Japanese Shinto religion?

Does it have merit? Do you think it is a good belief system? If you to visit Japan, will you give offerings to their Gods and Goddesses?


My thoughts on the shinto religion, is quite similar to my thoughts on hinduism.
Does it have merit?
Yes, for those who use it.
Do I think it's a good belief system?
No I don't. Because it is a materially based system.
If I visits Japan, I will respect their culture and customs as much as I can, and see no harm in presenting an offering to their god, goddess, or ancestor out of respect. As long as it does not contradict my belief system, and culteral representation.

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

CutsieMarie89,


What do you mean by molecules and atoms?

It's not just about the body.

Humans can't understand God, regardless of our efforts. That's why humans aren't supposed to question God.

Humans can understand God up to a point, otherwise there is no need of God.
It makes no sense to question God, to do so, you are putting yourself on the same level, which indicates a laps of understanding (ignorance).
If we want to question God, then we can have life times of such pursuit., until we begin to understand who and what God is, in relation to ourselves.
jan.

[Jan Ardena]

You mean they were angels ?
Jan, I'm just curious :)

I'll tell you what.Find where it give information of who the actual "we" are, send me the co-ordinates, then I will return them to you.

jan.

[Enmos]

I'll tell you what.Find where it give information of who the actual "we" are, send me the co-ordinates, then I will return them to you.

jan.

Sigh.. that's a blow off. Ok, very well.

[Jan Ardena]

Sigh.. that's a blow off. Ok, very well.

No it's not a blow-off.
The nature of the answer is in relation to the nature of the question.
You pose the question, already knowing that there is not an answer that is not based in speculation. It is a poor, trick question.

jan.

[Enmos]

No it's not a blow-off.
The nature of the answer is in relation to the nature of the question.
You pose the question, already knowing that there is not an answer that is not based in speculation. It is a poor, trick question.

jan.

What ? I wanted to know who 'the others' were according to the bible. In stead of reading the bible from cover to cover I figured I'd ask someone that might know..
It's not a trick question at all.
If you don't know, just say so.

[Jan Ardena]

What ? I wanted to know who 'the others' were according to the bible. In stead of reading the bible from cover to cover I figured I'd ask someone that might know..
It's not a trick question at all.
If you don't know, just say so.


In that case you have your answer.
Accept it and be done with it.

jan.

[Enmos]

In that case you have your answer.
Accept it and be done with it.

jan.

So you don't know.. (?)
That's fine Jan..
Why are you being so defensive ?

[Jan Ardena]

So you don't know.. (?)
That's fine Jan..
Why are you being so defensive ?

I have given you an answer which stands to reason.
Accept it, as it answers your question. If you dis-agree with my answer, then please state why.
As you are not being offensive, I have no reason to be defensive.

jan.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

CutsieMarie89,



It's not just about the body.



Humans can understand God up to a point, otherwise there is no need of God.
It makes no sense to question God, to do so, you are putting yourself on the same level, which indicates a laps of understanding (ignorance).
If we want to question God, then we can have life times of such pursuit., until we begin to understand who and what God is, in relation to ourselves.
jan.

How can I question god? I have never heard his opinion on anything.


peace.

[Jan Ardena]

How can I question god? I have never heard his opinion on anything.


peace.


I think she meant, to question what and who God is.

jan.

[greenberg]

It makes no sense to question God, to do so, you are putting yourself on the same level, which indicates a laps of understanding (ignorance).
If we want to question God, then we can have life times of such pursuit., until we begin to understand who and what God is, in relation to ourselves.


In one way, I agree with this. There can indeed be no direct communication between two beings that are usually purported to be so different as God and man are.

But on the other hand, I do not agree with what you are saying.
Nowadays when we are afraid and confused and there are so many people and texts who claim to speak the truth about God - what are we supposed to do?
Of course it then seems feasible to seek to go straight to God. When His messengers become evidently suspicious (such as eating meat, engaging in illicit sex and condoning it, quarreling with eachother), this diminishes the faith people have in the disciplic succession and genuineness of their message about God.

And then there is of course the fear that God might be evil, and what this would imply for us.

[Jan Ardena]

greenberg,

But on the other hand, I do not agree with what you are saying.
Nowadays when we are afraid and confused and there are so many people and texts who claim to speak the truth about God - what are we supposed to do?

The question is; what are we actually looking for?
Do we want to accept God on our own terms?
When I read the uttering of Jesus, Muhammad, Prahalad Maharaj, I see the same essential message. Of course they may appear different due to time, place, and circumstance, but the essence remains the same.

Of course it then seems feasible to seek to go straight to God.
When His messengers become evidently suspicious (such as eating meat, engaging in illicit sex and condoning it, quarreling with eachother), this diminishes the faith people have in the disciplic succession and genuineness of their message about God.

This is the time we are living in.

And then there is of course the fear that God might be evil, and what this would imply for us.

God is, period.
There can be no point worrying whether God is evil or not.
What are you going to do, not believe in him?

jan.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Jan
Do you preach to animals?

[greenberg]

The question is; what are we actually looking for?

True happiness.


God is, period.
There can be no point worrying whether God is evil or not.
What are you going to do, not believe in him?

Imagine an evil god getting a kick out of playing a game of carrot on a stick on us forever - "You want true happiness, yes? There, there's the carrot, go, run! Can't catch it? Oh, too bad! Try again!"

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

There can be no point worrying whether God is evil or not.

No point!!! IF I discover god exists, that is crucial!

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Imagine an evil god getting a kick out of playing a game of carrot on a stick on us forever - "You want true happiness, yes? There, there's the carrot, go, run! Can't catch it? Oh, too bad! Try again!"

That's the impression I get of The Holy Babble.

[Michael]

Enmos,

That is a left over from when proto-Jews, pre-Jews, etc... believed in more than one God. They only worshiped one of the Gods, that's where they were a bit different.

Michael

[Enmos]

Enmos,

That is a left over from when proto-Jews, pre-Jews, etc... believed in more than one God. They only worshiped one of the Gods, that's where they were a bit different.

Michael

Ah, thanks Michael :)
Are these other gods known ?

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Enmos,

That is a left over from when proto-Jews, pre-Jews, etc... believed in more than one God. They only worshiped one of the Gods, that's where they were a bit different.

Michael

At 1 time they worshipped more than 1 god.
I suspect different parts of the OT were about different gods but they were blended together into 1 as it was compiled, translated & mistranslated.

[JDawg]

At 1 time they worshipped more than 1 god.
I suspect different parts of the OT were about different gods but they were blended together into 1 as it was compiled, translated & mistranslated.

Or left those parts out altogether.

[Michael]

My thoughts on the shinto religion, is quite similar to my thoughts on hinduism.
Does it have merit?
Yes, for those who use it.
Do I think it's a good belief system?
No I don't. Because it is a materially based system.
If I visits Japan, I will respect their culture and customs as much as I can, and see no harm in presenting an offering to their god, goddess, or ancestor out of respect. As long as it does not contradict my belief system, and culteral representation.

jan.You are a monotheists correct? It seems from the word GO Shinto religion will contradict your belief system.

Or do you mean other things, like, don't covet your neighbors wife (or perhaps God should have said? don't covet your neighbors wives - they were polygamists after all), well, I think those sorts of cultural aspects are universal.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Or left those parts out altogether.

Or both. (Without the altogether.)

[glaucon]

glaucon,



What good points has he made?

In particular, that theists rarely scrutinize other theists with the same fervor they do atheists.



Your fear is totally unjustified.

Not upon reviewing your posts.


Why do you think I am a christian, what to speak of intolerent?
It is polite to converse with someone before you designate them, or accuse them of intolerence.

The history of theistic intolerance is well known.


Prove that God was created in the image of man.

Actually, the onus of 'proof' fall to you, who supports an unfounded idea.
But simply for the sake of argument, it's quite simply really: the concept 'god' does not predate man.

QED

[greenberg]

But simply for the sake of argument, it's quite simply really: the concept 'god' does not predate man.

If we accept the Big Bang theory, the Evolution theory, science and history (as you imply to), then those concepts "don't predate man" either - in the sense that there were no concepts of "science", "evolution", "history", "universe", "space", "chemistry", "physics" that "predate man"... Unless of course you think that early bacteria had invented those concepts and made use of them ...

[phlogistician]

...have a problem with relating to God as "he" or "him", preferring in most cases to use the terms "it", or "she"?

jan.

Two reasons. Referring to God with a specific gender implies we have decided something about your God, and we haven't, we don't believe in it, so we haven't assigned a gender, or even if the concept of gender should apply. It's still up in the air.

Second reason, it's a load of patriarchal bullshit.

[Jan Ardena]

Two reasons. Referring to God with a specific gender implies we have decided something about your God, and we haven't, we don't believe in it, so we haven't assigned a gender, or even if the concept of gender should apply. It's still up in the air.

Second reason, it's a load of patriarchal bullshit.


So basically you are making a statement?

jan.

[swarm]

Jan Ardena
he used the natural elements to place his seed

So just checking here...you are saying we are god cum?

[Jan Ardena]

So just checking here...you are saying we are god cum?

Nah.
I am saying we are part spirit. ;)

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

Jan
Do you preach to animals?

I don't preach, period.
Why do you ask that?

jan.

[phlogistician]

So basically you are making a statement?

jan.

Jan, try and comprehend. NO WE ARE NOT MAKING ANY STATEMENT.

We are being non-committal, hence our reluctance to assign gender.

What the fuck is it with theists, that NOT doing one thing, becomes DOING something else? Why can't you simply understand the concept of NOT.

[greenberg]

What the fuck is it with theists, that NOT doing one thing, becomes DOING something else? Why can't you simply understand the concept of NOT.

It is a common sense concept that one either does one thing or another,
one cannot not do something, not even for a second.

We have verbs and other words to describe what we do every second of the day: e.g. we sleep, we eat, we drink, we do, we avoid, ... We always do something, even if it's just sitting around and waiting.

[phlogistician]

one cannot not do something, not even for a second..

What a load of crap. I'm not walking, right now, and I have been not walking for about an hour now. That 'something' I'm not doing, is walking.

I think you mean it is impossible to not do _anything_

Language is important, use it carefully.

I reiterate, not doing one thing, does not in any way, imply doing something else.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

I don't preach, period.
Why do you ask that?

jan.

The Holy Babble says to preach to animals.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Language is important, use it carefully.

My view also. It's seems impossible tho for most humans.

[Orleander]

The Holy Babble says to preach to animals.

Is that what St Francis of Assisi did?

[Jan Ardena]

The Holy Babble says to preach to animals.

What is the "Holy Babble", and why have you asked if I preach to animals??
If you're gonna ask a question, then ask it in our mutual language, and if asked to clarify something, please do so if you are genuine.

I await clarification
jan.

[swarm]

StrangerInAStrangeLa
At 1 time they worshipped more than 1 god.

The torah still uses the plural "gods" instead of "god" in the earlier parts of genesis.

[swarm]

Jan Ardena
I am saying we are part spirit.

Now I'm pretty sure "seed"=cum.

If we are part spirit, what part? Left? Right? Top? Bottom?

[phlogistician]

Superman is a "comic" .

No, he's a Superhero.

Bob Hope was a comic.

[one_raven]

It would be more ironic to have superman transgendered.

I was driving up the Pacific Coast once (can't recall exactly where I was) and there was a transmission shop.
The mascot was a super hero character with the same name as the shop - "Tranny-Man".

Thanks for the memory.

[PsychoticEpisode]

...have a problem with relating to God as "he" or "him", preferring in most cases to use the terms "it", or "she"?

jan.

I try and mix it up as to not offend one side more than the other. I prefer 'the almighty' but it takes too long to type. Perhaps TA would suffice?

[swarm]

T&A works for me!

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Why do theists refer to it as he???
1111

[Jan Ardena]

Why do theists refer to it as he???
1111

Quite simply because all the scriptoral accounts and references to God refer to him as he/him.

I assume you are talking about the scriptoral God.

jan.

[Jan Ardena]

I try and mix it up as to not offend one side more than the other. I prefer 'the almighty' but it takes too long to type. Perhaps TA would suffice?

At least it's a reason.
Thanks.

jan.