View Full Version : Atheist bus ads
It's real, it's happening: you can sponsor the first atheist advert on a bus – and Richard Dawkins will match your money
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/21/religion-advertising
So, do you guys think that this is going to result in dead bus drivers?
The original thread was cesspool for no reason whatsoever. It had a discussion going on, nobody seemed offended, and whoever threw it away offered no justification for doing it. So kiss my ass, nazi mod.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...on-advertising
So, do you guys think that this is going to result in dead bus drivers?
The original thread was cesspool for no reason whatsoever. It had a discussion going on, nobody seemed offended, and whoever threw it away offered no justification for doing it. So kiss my ass, nazi mod.
Simply because I believe some of the moderators here are idiots, I'll do the honors of responding again.
I can't really speak about what would happen in the UK. In the US, however, certain parts of the country might experience some backlash. The south, for example, and parts of the midwest. Places with the lowest education rate would be where most of the violence--if any--took place.
BTW SAM, note that the ad says "There's PROBABLY no God"
How's that any close to a religious affirmation?
Simply because I believe some of the moderators here are idiots, I'll do the honors of responding again.
I can't really speak about what would happen in the UK. In the US, however, certain parts of the country might experience some backlash. The south, for example, and parts of the midwest. Places with the lowest education rate would be where most of the violence--if any--took place.
I think that if a person starts to feel outraged by this ad, and starts to voice it, other people could gather around and feel outraged too, and that could result in a mob setting the bus on fire.
I think that if a person starts to feel outraged by this ad, and starts to voice it, other people could gather around and feel outraged too, and that could result in a mob setting the bus on fire.
Well, good on them. But the next time someone sets a church on fire, I don't want to hear them complaining.
In the UK many people would laugh, shake their heads and walk on by.....
they have lots of immigrants there, lots of muslims
they don't strike me as people who would laugh, shake their heads and walk on by
they have lots of immigrants there, lots of muslims
they don't strike me as people who would laugh, shake their heads and walk on by
Oh, that's true. I think in the UK you'd at least see threats of violence by Muslims. And once that happens, anti-religious advertising will be banned in the UK, because the UK does not want to upset the violent, ignorant Muslim community. They've proven this time and time again.
phlogistician
10-22-08, 11:15 AM
In the UK many people would laugh, shake their heads and walk on by.....
I would, because I'm an atheist, and I think it's good fun having such a slogan on a Bus.
It's about time. We've had too much proselytising from the pro camp for far too long. A little balance isn't a bad thing.
phlogistician
10-22-08, 11:17 AM
Oh, that's true. I think in the UK you'd at least see threats of violence by Muslims. And once that happens, anti-religious advertising will be banned in the UK, because the UK does not want to upset the violent, ignorant Muslim community. They've proven this time and time again.
If that happens I'll start spray painting anti-islamic phrases in public places. I won't be held to ransom.
If that happens I'll start spray painting anti-islamic phrases in public places. I won't be held to ransom.
I'm right with you. The second I see us changing things in the US to suit the Muslims, that is when I begin my own quest to make Muslims as angry as possible.
superstring01
10-22-08, 11:28 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2008/oct/21/religion-advertising
So, do you guys think that this is going to result in dead bus drivers?
HAAAAA! I Love it! I want them on the buses here in the USA.
~String
I love the message of the ad... enjoy your life.. stop worrying about things that probably don't even exist :)
Oh, that's true. I think in the UK you'd at least see threats of violence by Muslims. And once that happens, anti-religious advertising will be banned in the UK, because the UK does not want to upset the violent, ignorant Muslim community. They've proven this time and time again.
No you wouldn't, if you don't attack Muslims they don't care what you believe
I think that if a person starts to feel outraged by this ad, and starts to voice it, other people could gather around and feel outraged too, and that could result in a mob setting the bus on fire.
I don't see why anyone should be offended in any way by such an add. Especially since believers constantly tell us that there IS a god.
one_raven
10-22-08, 12:09 PM
So much for the thousands of claims I have seen about atheists not proselytizing, huh? :D
Dawkins strikes again.
No you wouldn't, if you don't attack Muslims they don't care what you believe
Yea right.. there are always fundamentalist groups that will use violence.
No you wouldn't, if you don't attack Muslims they don't care what you believe
Bullshit.
one_raven
10-22-08, 12:14 PM
No you wouldn't, if you don't attack Muslims they don't care what you believe
Can you honestly make the claim that you believe there is no way that some insane, fundamentalist, extremists would not see that as an attack on Allah/Islam?
Pull the other one.
Can you honestly make the claim that you believe there is no way that some insane, fundamentalist, extremists would not see that as an attack on Allah/Islam?
Pull the other one.
Like fatwas on Dawkins? The bus is in the UK. :shrug:
Technically speaking, from a Muslim point of view, who cares what a kafir believes?
Have you seen any? The bus is in the UK. :shrug:
Give it time. Rome wasn't burned in a day.
Give it time. Rome wasn't burned in a day.
http://www.google.com/search?q=muslims+attack+atheist&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a
Like fatwas on Dawkins? The bus is in the UK. :shrug:
Technically speaking, from a Muslim point of view, who cares what a kafir believes?
What about Van Gogh then ?
What about Van Gogh then ?
He was attacked because of his movie showing naked [or semi-naked] Muslim women on a prayer mat. Not sure if it was because they were semi-naked [stripping a Muslim/Asian woman is an insult in most Muslim/Asian cultures] or because she was naked on a prayer mat. Oh and because Quranic verses were written on her naked body, which is an issue of taharrat [cleanliness] in acts of worship. Probably some emotional guy who considered it a racist attack on Muslims or something.
He was attacked because of his movie showing naked [or semi-naked] Muslim women on a prayer mat. Not sure if it was because they were semi-naked [stripping a Muslim/Asian woman is an insult in most Muslim/Asian cultures] or because she was naked on a prayer mat. Oh and because Quranic verses were written on her naked body, which is an issue of taharrat [cleanliness] in acts of worship.
The movie was critical of Islam. That's why.
The movie was critical of Islam. That's why.
Not at all. The movie had nothing to do with Islam at all.
He was attacked because of his movie showing naked [or semi-naked] Muslim women on a prayer mat. Not sure if it was because they were semi-naked [stripping a Muslim/Asian woman is an insult in most Muslim/Asian cultures] or because she was naked on a prayer mat. Oh and because Quranic verses were written on her naked body, which is an issue of taharrat [cleanliness] in acts of worship. Probably some emotional guy who considered it a racist attack on Muslims or something.
That justifies it?
There is no justification. Just like there was no justification for threatening that European cartoonist for depicting Mohamed. But that's what your kind does.
Not at all. The movie had nothing to do with Islam at all.
I suggest you check your facts.
How is an observation a justification? My ex- was Moroccan and it was just an opinion based on what I have seen in Moroccan culture.
I suggest you check your facts.
I've seen it. It had as much to do with Islam as the Jewel of Medina
How is an observation a justification? My ex- was Moroccan and it was just an opinion based on what I have seen in Moroccan culture.
The correct answer would be, "He was attacked because radical Muslims are the scum of the earth."
Whats a "radical" Muslim? For all you know he wasn't even religious.
No you wouldn't, if you don't attack Muslims they don't care what you believe
i'm pretty sure that, as tame as that ad is, some people might consider it an attack
i'm pretty sure that, as tame as that ad is, some people might consider it an attack
I doubt it. Though you could substitute God for Allah and then see the difference.:D
How is an observation a justification? My ex- was Moroccan and it was just an opinion based on what I have seen in Moroccan culture.
I've seen it. It had as much to do with Islam as the Jewel of Medina
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submission_(movie)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submission_(movie)
I'm a Muslim. You don't have to show me a movie by a kafir to teach me if its about Islam. The purpose of that movie was provocation. Its like making a movie on Stalins gulags and describing it as a movie on atheism. :p
I'm a Muslim. You don't have to show me a movie by a kafir to teach me if its about Islam. The purpose of that movie was provocation. Its like making a movie on Stalins gulags and describing it as a movie on atheism. :p
It doesn't matter whether or not you recognize it as a movie about Islam. The fact is that Van Gogh intended it to be about Islam.
"The film's title is a direct translation of the word "Islam" (see also the etymology and meaning of the word)."
"Hirsi Ali has said "it is written in the Koran a woman may be slapped if she is disobedient. This is one of the evils I wish to point out in the film"."
"While the film drew both praise and outrage over its portrayal of the abused women,[9] as a criticism of Islam it drew the following comment from The Village Voice movie critic Dennis Lim, “It's depressing to think that this morsel of glib effrontery could pass as a serious critique of conservative Islam.”"
"Hirsi Ali has stated she would like to make a sequel to the movie because "By not making 'Submission Part II,' I would only be helping terrorists believe that if they use violence, they're rewarded with what they want." When asked if she would submit to threats against her life, she said "Not me.""
Quotes from Wikipedia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submission_(movie)
there is nothing in that link
/%^$#&^%*&)(*&
this is ridiculous
sam must think she is talking to infants
jadawg and enmos
have you no goddamn shame?
sam is shafting you guys up the ass and you remain oblivious?
I doubt it. Though you could substitute God for Allah and then see the difference.:D
I think that they used the generic word for god in english because it is not their purpose to target a specific belief
there is nothing in that link
/%^$#&^%*&)(*&
this is ridiculous
sam must think she is talking to infants
jadawg and enmos
have you no goddamn shame?
sam is shafting you guys up the ass and you remain oblivious?
:rolleyes:
For some reason it leaves out the last bracket. Type it manually, you lazy bastard.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submission_(movie)
It doesn't matter whether or not you recognize it as a movie about Islam. The fact is that Van Gogh intended it to be about Islam.
Did he? You mean Hirsi Ali and Theo van Gogh were concerned about Muslim women? Really? :rolleyes:
I have come to the opinion [especially after reading about the Jewel of Medina] that the only logical approach to western skits on "Islam" is that of the tolerance shown to a retarded child. Clearly, they have no idea what they are talking about and its pointless to think that will ever change.
Yes.
And Hirsi Ali is or was Muslim herself.
Was she? Is that why her father is an athiest and her brother a Christian? She's associated with Zionist and right-wing neo-evangelical groups in the US. I really don't consider her a spokeswoman for anything about Muslims.
jadawg and enmos
have you no goddamn shame?
sam is shafting you guys up the ass and you remain oblivious?
Speaking of shame, have you ever heard of the SHIFT key?
Was she? Is that why her father is an athiest and her brother a Christian? She's associated with Zionist and right-wing neo-evangelical groups in the US. I really don't consider her a spokeswoman for anything about Muslims.
Liar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
MacGyver1968
10-22-08, 01:01 PM
I'm a Muslim. You don't have to show me a movie by a kafir to teach me if its about Islam. The purpose of that movie was provocation. Its like making a movie on Stalins gulags and describing it as a movie on atheism. :p
What's a kafir?
What's a kafir?
Someone that doesn't follow Islam.
What's a kafir?
Non-believer.
Liar.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ayaan_Hirsi_Ali
Ho hum. You're pasting wiki as a reference?:rolleyes:
What's a kafir?
Kafir is one who rejects God or one who hides, denies or covers the truth
The word kāfir is the active participle of the root K-F-R "to cover". As a pre-Islamic term it described farmers burying seeds in the ground, covering them with soil while planting. Thus, the word kāfir implies the meaning "a person who hides or covers". In Islamic parlance, a kāfir is a word used to describe a person who rejects Islamic faith, i.e. "hides or covers [viz., the truth]"
Ho hum. You're pasting wiki as a reference?:rolleyes:
Yep.. It's common knowledge that she was a Muslim SAM..
Kaf·ir
2. (lowercase) Islam. an infidel or unbeliever.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kafir?o=0
I suspect it's used as a derogatory term.
Ho hum. You're pasting wiki as a reference?:rolleyes:
the wiki references to the magazine to which she gave the interview about losing her faith
Yep.. It's common knowledge that she was a Muslim SAM..
I'm sure it is. I'm betting she has never studied or practised Islam and has created a political identity for propaganda purposes. Like she "defended" liberal values and homosexuals and now works for a neo-con organisation. :rolleyes:
Kaf·ir
2. (lowercase) Islam. an infidel or unbeliever.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/kafir?o=0
I suspect it's used as a derogatory term.
No more than "radical" Muslim.
We know the word "Kaffer" here in the Netherlands, which is Yiddish for Kafir. Or at least it comes from the Yiddish word for Kafir.
It's commonly used as a derogatory term
I'm sure it is. I'm betting she has never studied or practised Islam and has created a political identity for propaganda purposes. Like she "defended" liberal values and homosexuals and now works for a neo-con organisation. :rolleyes:
No more than "radical" Muslim.
She has denounced Islam SAM.
I suggest you read that article.
the wiki references to the magazine to which she gave the interview about losing her faith
Did she tell the magazine about the other lies she made up to get European citizenship? And the lies she made up about her sister to try and get her an European citizenship?:rolleyes:
I'm sure it is. I'm betting she has never studied or practised Islam and has created a political identity for propaganda purposes. Like she "defended" liberal values and homosexuals and now works for a neo-con organisation. :rolleyes:
No more than "radical" Muslim.
who are you to judge who is a god muslim and who is a bad muslim?
Did she tell the magazine about the other lies she made up to get European citizenship? And the lies she made up about her sister to try and get her an European citizenship?:rolleyes:
What does that have to do with anything ? Your reaction is typical.
She has denounced Islam SAM.
I suggest you read that article.
I suggest you broaden your horizons:
Ms Hirsi Ali sounds less frank when she tells the convoluted story of how and why she came to seek asylum at the age of 22 in the Netherlands. She has admitted in the past to changing her name and her age, and to concocting a story for the Dutch authorities about running away from Somalia's civil war. (In fact she left from Kenya, where she had had refugee status for ten years.) She has since justified those lies by saying that she feared another kind of persecution: the vengeance of her clan after she ran away from an arranged marriage.
However, last May a Dutch television documentary suggested that while Ms Hirsi Ali did run away from a marriage, her life was in no danger. The subsequent uproar nearly cost Ms Hirsi Ali her Dutch citizenship, which may be the reason why she is careful here to re-state how much she feared her family when she first arrived in the Netherlands. But the facts as she tells them about the many chances she passed up to get out of the marriage?how her father and his clan disapproved of violence against women; how relatives already in the Netherlands helped her to gain asylum; and how her ex-husband peaceably agreed to a divorce?hardly seem to bear her out.
Ayaan Hirsi Ali is not the first person to use false pretences to try to find a better life in the West, nor will she be the last. But the muddy account given in this book of her so-called forced marriage becomes more troubling when one considers that Ms Hirsi Ali has built a career out of portraying herself as the lifelong victim of fanatical Muslims.
Feb 8th 2007
From The Economist print edition (http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=E1_RGGPNPT) [need a subscription]
I suggest you broaden your horizons:
Feb 8th 2007
From The Economist print edition (http://www.economist.com/displayStory.cfm?Story_ID=E1_RGGPNPT) [need a subscription]
What's your point ? :confused:
She pandered to the right-wing factions in the Netherlands to get refugee status. In case you did not know, religious persecution gets you refugee status in the Netherlands
She pandered to the right-wing factions in the Netherlands to get refugee status. In case you did not know, religious persecution gets you refugee status in the Netherlands
You think I don't know these things ? :rolleyes:
so you don't like this girl because she refuses to be oppressed?
so you don't like this girl because she refuses to be oppressed?
And all of a sudden she's not a real Muslim.. typical.
No, I don't like her because she maligned her family to get ahead in life and targeted all Muslims to support her fake identity. I have no idea if she is a theist or athiest, what she is, is a poor excuse for a human being.
jesus wept
i'd go home and slit my wrists if i get pwnd like this
jesus wept
i'd go home and slit my wrists if i get pwnd like this
pwnd ? lol :rolleyes:
No, I don't like her because she maligned her family to get ahead in life and targeted all Muslims to support her fake identity. I have no idea if she is a theist or athiest, what she is, is a poor excuse for a human being.
Oh now you have no idea.. a minute ago you were denying she was a Muslim.
She can't even keep her stories striaght:
Another, even more disturbing story concerns her sister Haweya's sojourn in the Netherlands. In her earlier book, ?The Caged Virgin?, which came out last year, Ms Hirsi Ali wrote that her sister came to the Netherlands to avoid being ?married off?. In ?Infidel?, however, she says Haweya came to recover from an illicit affair with a married man that ended in abortion. Ms Hirsi Ali helped Haweya make up another fabricated story that gained her refugee status, but the Netherlands offered her little respite. After another affair and a further abortion, Haweya was put into a psychiatric hospital. Back in Nairobi, she died from a miscarriage brought on by an episode of religious frenzy.
A miscarriage brought on by religious frenzy? :rolleyes:
who are you to judge who is a god muslim and who is a bad muslim?
yeah
who the hell appointed you judge, jury and executioner?
eh, sam?
/eek
i can smell the beauteous varda
/pant
Shall we get back to the original post, if possible?
Yea keep sidetracking SAM.. the point is that Hirshi Ali was Muslim.
Oh now you have no idea.. a minute ago you were denying she was a Muslim.
Where? I did not say anything about her faith, I said she clearly has very little knowledge of Islam. She could be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, atheist, shes still pathetic.
Shall we get back to the original post, if possible?
Sure carry on. Umm haha? how funny, an evangelical agnostic poster?
Where? I did not say anything about her faith, I said she clearly has very little knowledge of Islam. She could be Muslim, Christian, Buddhist, atheist, shes still pathetic.
Here ?
Yes.
And Hirsi Ali is or was Muslim herself.
Was she? Is that why her father is an athiest and her brother a Christian? She's associated with Zionist and right-wing neo-evangelical groups in the US. I really don't consider her a spokeswoman for anything about Muslims.
Yep.. It's common knowledge that she was a Muslim SAM..
I'm sure it is. I'm betting she has never studied or practised Islam and has created a political identity for propaganda purposes. Like she "defended" liberal values and homosexuals and now works for a neo-con organisation. :rolleyes:
No more than "radical" Muslim.
She has denounced Islam SAM.
I suggest you read that article.
Did she tell the magazine about the other lies she made up to get European citizenship? And the lies she made up about her sister to try and get her an European citizenship?:rolleyes:
i don't think that poster is preaching anything, sam
Nope I'm sure it isn't
http://www.ancient-future.net/uploaded_images/End-is-near-785574.jpg
The end is probably near?
N.E.A.R. -> Not Even A Reality :p
Here ?
I said I don't believe her. I don't :shrug:
one_raven
10-22-08, 02:01 PM
Sam,
Are you, in your very round about way, saying that anyone who attacks innocent civilians is not a Muslim, because that person is not following the tenets of the religion, which is a peaceful one?
In other words, people who call themselves Muslim and engage in terrorism and extremist behavior are not really Muslims, because a REAL Muslim wouldn'd do such a thing?
Sam,
Are you, in your very round about way, saying that anyone who attacks innocent civilians is not a Muslim, because that person is not following the tenets of the religion, which is a peaceful one?
In other words, people who call themselves Muslim and engage in terrorism and extremist behavior are not really Muslims, because a REAL Muslim wouldn'd do such a thing?
Not at all, I'm saying that Muslims [in general] really would not care what non-Muslims believe about religion. So long as they did not attack Islam or its icons. We tend to be very protective and senstitive of our own. Other people's beliefs are like other people's children. We may approve or disapprove, but its really none of our business. Thats why you'll rarely [points to self] see any Muslim attacking other people for being of a different religion
Not at all, I'm saying that Muslims [in general] really would not care what non-Muslims believe about religion. So long as they did not attack Islam or its icons. We tend to be very protective and senstitive of our own. Other people's beliefs are like other people's children. We may approve or disapprove, but its really none of our business. Thats why you'll rarely [points to self] see any Muslim attacking other people for being of a different religion
Wouldn't that add be seen as an attack ?
Would that add be seen as an attack ?
Only if God was replaced with Allah :D
I said I don't believe her. I don't :shrug:
You don't believe her when she says she's a Muslim. That's the same thing as saying she's not a Muslim.
Only if God was replaced with Allah :D
Allah IS God, isn't he ?
Allah IS God, isn't he ?
Yeah, but most Muslims know that [most] non-Muslims don't think that, so it would be seen as targeting Muslims.
You don't believe her when she says she's a Muslim. That's the same thing as saying she's not a Muslim.
I don't believe her about anything. Thats saying that she is a professed liar.
I'm tempted to add here:
'To thine own self be true'
But I won't of course as I've got a raging temperature thus am obviously delirious.
MacGyver1968
10-22-08, 02:39 PM
It's not the raging temperature that causing the delirium...it's your raging personality. ;)
Yeah, but most Muslims know that [most] non-Muslims don't think that, so it would be seen as targeting Muslims.
I don't believe her about anything. Thats saying that she is a professed liar.
What about all the reactions on the internet afterwards, cheering the killer on ?
What about the Muslims cheering when they heard the news about the Twin Tower attack ?
I have nothing against Muslims in particular btw, it's just that this thread seems to have taken that direction.
spidergoat
10-22-08, 02:41 PM
Only if God was replaced with Allah :D
That's a good idea, but I don't think Dawkins wants to die. :fright:
I'm tempted to say here:
Enjoy your life as you'll only burn in hell forever along with the rest of us.
Yeah, but most Muslims know that [most] non-Muslims don't think that, so it would be seen as targeting Muslims.
I don't believe her about anything. Thats saying that she is a professed liar.
So do you believe she was a Muslim or not ?
What about all the reactions on the internet afterwards, cheering the killer on ?
I have nothing against Muslims in particular btw, it's just that this thread seems to have taken that direction.
More people pissed about naked Muslim women on prayer mats. Liek I said, Muslims, especially conservative ones do not like anyone targeting Islam or disrobing their women.
What about the Muslims cheering when they heard the news about the Twin Tower attack ?
Were they? Can I see a video? My own reaction at the time was, say what?
That's a good idea, but I don't think Dawkins wants to die.
:D
More people pissed about naked Muslim women on prayer mats. Liek I said, Muslims, especially conservative ones do not like anyone targeting Islam or disrobing their women.
And how does that make it right to kill an innocent man, or cheer this killer on and threaten to kill more people ?
Were they? Can I see a video? My own reaction at the time was, say what?
It was all over the news at the time SAM..
And how does that make it right to kill an innocent man, or cheer this killer on and threaten to kill more people ?
Who said it makes it right?
It was all over the news at the time SAM..
No doubt, can I see it? I was in Saudi Arabia at the time and we did not get that on the news/
Who said it makes it right?
You are acting like it is.
No doubt, can I see it? I was in Saudi Arabia at the time and we did not get that on the news/
I'm sure you can find it.
Ghost_007
10-22-08, 03:06 PM
Oh, that's true. I think in the UK you'd at least see threats of violence by Muslims. And once that happens, anti-religious advertising will be banned in the UK, because the UK does not want to upset the violent, ignorant Muslim community. They've proven this time and time again.
Pure ignorance.
The biggest opponents of Dawkins are not even Muslims. As a Muslim I lol'd when I first read about this, its just some advertising. Aren't those sending threats against Dawkins mainly (White) Christians? This is not even your typical nonsensical West vs. Islam type of debate.
one_raven
10-22-08, 04:15 PM
I'm saying that Muslims [in general] really would not care what non-Muslims believe about religion.
I don't think people are talking about Muslims in general, unless you ae saying that Muslims in general are extremists and terrorists.
I don't think people are talking about Muslims in general, unless you ae saying that Muslims in general are extremists and terrorists.
I'm making allowances for the oddball here and there. Does anyone here have experience with a Muslim who made derisive remarks about their beliefs? [Besides me, I'm merely talking the talk here :D]
Isn't it great though, to have a country where you can put this on a bus and not be stoned to death?
one_raven
10-22-08, 04:39 PM
Isn't it great though, to have a country where you can put this on a bus and not be stoned to death?
So far.
Dawkins may want to steer clear of quarries.
I'd rather be stoned to death by an angry mob than by my government. So win-win for the West.
Orleander
10-22-08, 06:45 PM
I'd rather be stoned to death by an angry mob than by my government. So win-win for the West.
I'd rather have you stoned that way as well.
:p
MacGyver1968
10-22-08, 07:04 PM
Hey..I like getting stoned...wait...that's not what you're talking about..huh?
one_raven
10-22-08, 07:21 PM
Everybody must get stoned.
Orleander
10-22-08, 07:40 PM
How big does it have to be to be considered a stone? can I be rocked? Sanded? Pebbled?
Hmm in the Mecca ritual, the stones are pea sized
Orleander
10-22-08, 07:44 PM
Hmm in the Mecca ritual, the stones are pea sized
I think they are considerably bigger in the Bible.
Jan Ardena
10-22-08, 07:59 PM
BTW SAM, note that the ad says "There's PROBABLY no God"
How's that any close to a religious affirmation?
That's a ploy to give the appearance of being rational.
Either you believe God does not exist, or, you do not accept the authority of God if he does exist. The idea of not believing in God because there is no scientific evidence is a nonsense.
A person can be religious, and not believe in God, there are good examples of this. The religion of the atheist, is to live without the rules and regulations of organised religion.
The advert is an advertisment to recruit new members, Dawkins and his inner circle crew are like priests, mainstream media is the guru, in particular the one-eyed gure (tv). :D
jan.
one_raven
10-22-08, 08:07 PM
I like the quote, can't remember who said it...
"If not believing in God is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby."
Jan Ardena
10-22-08, 08:12 PM
I like the quote, can't remember who said it...
"If not believing in God is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby."
The religion isn't "not believing in God", the religion is a way of life, without God.
jan.
one_raven
10-22-08, 08:23 PM
While religion can be a "way of life", a way of life is not necessarily a religion.
If that were so, every person on earth would be religious, because everyone has a "way of life".
If everything is a religion, nothing is a religion.
Jan Ardena
10-22-08, 08:40 PM
one_raven,
While religion can be a "way of life", a way of life is not necessarily a religion.
Of course you are correct, but a way of life can be a religion.
If that were so, every person on earth would be religious, because everyone has a "way of life".
If everything is a religion, nothing is a religion.
That's an interesting take on it.
Perhaps everyone is religious to some degree or other. Maybe God based religion is merely the highest form of religion.
In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna advises his devotee to abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto him.
jan.
one_raven
10-22-08, 08:57 PM
Perhaps everyone is religious to some degree or other. Maybe God based religion is merely the highest form of religion.
Or the lowest.
KennyJC
10-22-08, 10:07 PM
Are we still calling non-belief in god a religion? Zzzzzzz....
You don't get to stamp the word religion on anything and everything.
Jan Ardena
10-22-08, 10:22 PM
Are we still calling non-belief in god a religion? Zzzzzzz....
You don't get to stamp the word religion on anything and everything.
I didn't say non-belief in God is a religion, and neither is belief in God. Religion is a way of life. Do you have a problem with that?
jan.
phlogistician
10-23-08, 04:30 AM
Was she? Is that why her father is an athiest and her brother a Christian? She's associated with Zionist and right-wing neo-evangelical groups in the US. I really don't consider her a spokeswoman for anything about Muslims.
Like we could trust your opinion about anything SAM.
You are such a twisting liar.
I'd rather have you stoned that way as well.
:p
Yes, I know, anyone that disagrees with you must die.
You sound Muslim...?
phlogistician
10-23-08, 10:20 AM
I like the quote, can't remember who said it...
"If not believing in God is a religion, then not collecting stamps is a hobby."
That's a good one, and my own personal one for those that equate a lack of belief in god, with a belief god does not exist;
" 'I don't believe I'll win the lottery this week', does not mean 'I do not believe there is no lottery to win'. I have a ticket so I know it exists, but I also know the odds are 14 million to one against me winning."
Of course, theists haven't got a ticket.
Like we could trust your opinion about anything SAM.
You are such a twisting liar.
Yeah, how dare I quote the Economist and a Dutch film that interviewed her family. :rolleyes:
How dare I believe Ayan Hirsi Ali when she admitted she lied to get refugee status. :rolleyes:
Why, oh why don't I get my snooze from Faux Noise? :rolleyes:
Jan Ardena
10-23-08, 10:56 AM
That's a good one, and my own personal one for those that equate a lack of belief in god, with a belief god does not exist;
" 'I don't believe I'll win the lottery this week', does not mean 'I do not believe there is no lottery to win'. I have a ticket so I know it exists, but I also know the odds are 14 million to one against me winning."
Of course, theists haven't got a ticket.
That is a bad analogy because the lottery undeniably exists, so the unbelief is caused by the odds.
The correct analogy that reflects your point is to say, I don't believe in the lottery, therefore I am not going to partake in it. This will undoubtedly affect your life in some way, because there are underlying reasons why you have made this choice. How it affects your life could be regarded as religion, or a way of life based on your belief.
jan.
phlogistician
10-24-08, 04:34 AM
That is a bad analogy because the lottery undeniably exists, so the unbelief is caused by the odds.
The correct analogy that reflects your point is to say, I don't believe in the lottery, therefore I am not going to partake in it. This will undoubtedly affect your life in some way, because there are underlying reasons why you have made this choice. How it affects your life could be regarded as religion, or a way of life based on your belief.
jan.
No Jan, it's a good analogy, but your failure to accept that is part of your flawed reasoning, which also leads you to be a theist.
You see, the analogy is not about God (or the lottery). It's about belief. Two different things. Belief or lack of, is definite. The analogy holds, therefore.
phlogistician
10-24-08, 04:36 AM
Yeah, how dare I quote the Economist and a Dutch film that interviewed her family. :rolleyes:
How dare I believe Ayan Hirsi Ali when she admitted she lied to get refugee status. :rolleyes:
Why, oh why don't I get my snooze from Faux Noise? :rolleyes:
Or you could listen to what she has to say for herself, that's actually salient, rather than convolving disparate 'facts', SAM.
Yeah, how dare I quote the Economist and a Dutch film that interviewed her family. :
How dare I believe Ayan Hirsi Ali when she admitted she lied to get refugee status. :
Why, oh why don't I get my snooze from Faux Noise? :
Or you could listen to what she has to say for herself, that's actually salient, rather than convolving disparate 'facts', SAM.
Say for herself? You mean her lies are her testimonial? :roflmao:
Jan Ardena
10-24-08, 09:23 AM
No Jan, it's a good analogy, but your failure to accept that is part of your flawed reasoning, which also leads you to be a theist.
You see, the analogy is not about God (or the lottery). It's about belief. Two different things. Belief or lack of, is definite. The analogy holds, therefore.
My understanding of one ravens quote was that not believing in God, is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps makes a stamp collecter. Which I agree with, and would like to add that believing in God in not a religion. The religion is how you live your life.
It seemed that your analogy was additionally in support of ravens, and sort to add another in the same vain.
My apologies if I misunderstood.
jan.
Spud Emperor
10-24-08, 09:43 AM
I reckon that the vast majority of religious folk fail to realise that most atheists are very spiritual.
I think they'd be genuinely surprised to find that most atheists have a well formed moral code and religious type feelings for things (nature for example,.. their kids, their lives.)
Of course they do, they grow up in a religious majority society. Thats like saying, everyone speaks English in the UK.
phlogistician
10-24-08, 10:10 AM
My understanding of one ravens quote was that not believing in God, is as much a religion, as not collecting stamps makes a stamp collecter. Which I agree with, and would like to add that believing in God in not a religion. The religion is how you live your life.
It seemed that your analogy was additionally in support of ravens, and sort to add another in the same vain.
My apologies if I misunderstood.
jan.
Yes Jan, you did misunderstand a little, it wasn't a further explanation of One Raven's stamp collector analogy, but a an explanation of why not believing something does not equate to belief in the non-existence, which is often levelled at atheists.
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