Islamophobia

[S.A.M.]

Islamophobia (which isn't a real word)

What makes a word, a "real" word?

I dipped into wikipedia:

In 1997, the British Runnymede Trust defined Islamophobia as the "dread or hatred of Islam and therefore, to the fear and dislike of all Muslims," stating that it also refers to the practice of discriminating against Muslims by excluding them from the economic, social, and public life of the nation. It includes the perception that Islam has no values in common with other cultures, is inferior to the West and is a violent political ideology rather than a religion.[4] Professor Anne Sophie Roald writes that steps were taken toward official acceptance of the term in January 2001 at the "Stockholm International Forum on Combating Intolerance", where Islamophobia was recognized as a form of intolerance alongside Xenophobia and Antisemitism.[5]

So is it a word?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Muslim

[OilIsMastery]

It's a real word for the reason I've described, namely that Muslims want people to fear them and be afraid of them.

[Fraggle Rocker]

You realise this is the Linguistics forum?* * * * NOTE FROM THE MODERATOR * * * *

Sam is right. This is the Linguistics subforum, not Politics, World Events, History, Religion or Comparative Religion. I'm famous for tolerating off-topic posts on this board because it helps keep it interesting and entertaining so the traffic doesn't drop off. But I'm not going to entertain a debate over whose religion is worse than the others.

To get back on topic, "islamophobia" has appeared often enough in the press that it has achieved the status of a real word. English is a democratic language, not an autocratic one. Words are created through usage, not by the decree of scholars. Nonetheless I beg to differ with the scholars in Sam's citation. The original meaning of the Greek suffix -phobia is "fear." Not hatred, discrimination, exclusion, devaluation or any of those other nouns they used. "Islamophobia" is a perfect word for what many Americans feel since the Iran hostage crisis and then 9/11: fear of Islam and/or Muslims.

I think the meaning of the suffix got muddled when the term "homophobia" was coined. It's a perfectly reasonable word to express what many of us heterosexual men feel: a fear of sexual contact with another man. Somehow it got twisted to mean hatred of homosexuals. So now when someone coins a new "phobia," people think it means hatred instead of fear.

[CheskiChips]

Was it pressed forward by non-English speakers?

[(Q)]

Islamophobia is not a word because phobia is a Greek word, hence any word attached to it must be Greek also. Islam is not a Greek word.

[S.A.M.]

Whats islam in Greek?

I think the meaning of the suffix got muddled when the term "homophobia" was coined. It's a perfectly reasonable word to express what many of us heterosexual men feel: a fear of sexual contact with another man. Somehow it got twisted to mean hatred of homosexuals. So now when someone coins a new "phobia," people think it means hatred instead of fear.

Thanks, I thought homophobia meant fear of those with same sex inclinations.

[S.A.M.]

Barbarian

.

No that was the Greek words for all non-Greeks or crude Greeks

The word "barbarian" comes into English from Medieval Latin barbarinus, from Latin barbaria, from Latin barbarus, from the ancient Greek word βάρβαρος (bárbaros). The word is onomatopeic, the bar-bar representing the impression of random hubbub produced by hearing a spoken language that one cannot understand, similar to blah blah, babble or rhubarb in modern English. Related imitative forms are found in other Indo-European languages, such as Sanskrit barbara-, "stammering" or "curly-haired."

Depending on its use, the term "barbarian" either described a foreign individual or tribe whose first language was not Greek or a Greek individual or tribe speaking Greek crudely. The term is also historically used to describe the Vikings[2] and Goths; it is a common label for the "Normans" during their invasion of England and for the Goths during the Gothic revolt that put an end to the Roman Empire in 470 A.D. and began the so-called Dark Ages.

The Greeks used the term as they encountered scores of different foreign cultures, including the Egyptians, Persians, Indians, Celts, Germans, Phoenicians, Etruscans, and Carthaginians. However in certain occasions, the term was also used by Greeks, especially Athenians to deride other Greek tribes and states (such as Macedonians, Epirotes, Eleans and Aeolic-speakers) in a pejorative and politically motivated manner.[3] Of course, the term also carried a cultural dimension to its dual meaning.[4][5] The verb barbarizein in ancient Greek meant imitating the linguistic sounds non-Greeks made or making grammatical errors in Greek.

Plato (Statesman 262de) rejected the Greek–barbarian dichotomy as a logical absurdity on just such grounds: dividing the world into Greeks and non-Greeks told one nothing about the second group. In Homer's works, the term appeared only once (Iliad 2.867), in the form barbarophonos ("of incomprehensible speech"), used of the Carians fighting for Troy during the Trojan War. In general, the concept of barbaros did not figure largely in archaic literature before the 5th century BC.[6] Still it has been suggested that "barbarophonoi" in the Iliad signifies not those who spoke a non-Greek language but simply those who spoke Greek badly.[7]

[GeoffP]

I think the meaning of the suffix got muddled when the term "homophobia" was coined. It's a perfectly reasonable word to express what many of us heterosexual men feel: a fear of sexual contact with another man. Somehow it got twisted to mean hatred of homosexuals. So now when someone coins a new "phobia," people think it means hatred instead of fear.

Hmm. Interesting put. What's the solution? I suppose Gower (may the gods curse him) would just say "hatred" but he's shown a tendency to accept some modern styles.

[Spud Emperor]

Get that up ya OIM!

[GeoffP]

Well I don't like Gower either, Spud (a civil servant given a knighthood for that which more civilized countries would just have decently have had him shot) but that's no reason to go around injecting the man up people's orifices.

[Spud Emperor]

Well I don't like Gower either, Spud (a civil servant given a knighthood for that which more civilized countries would just have decently have had him shot) but that's no reason to go around injecting the man up people's orifices.

Pardon me.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Whats islam in Greek?The Babylon online English-Greek dictionary (http://www.babylon.com/definition/Islam/Greek) says it's simply the same word transcribed into the Greek alphabet: Ισλάμ. The accent is on the second syllable, unlike English. We tend to normalize foreign words into the Germanic pattern of accenting the first syllable.Thanks, I thought homophobia meant fear of those with same sex inclinations.Well that's a fair interpretation as well, but in the sense of "fear that one of them might make an overture toward me."

It's been pointed out that both men and women fear uninvited erotic contact with a man, whereas neither men nor women fear it with a woman. Most women have exactly the same reaction to unwanted advances from a man as men do. And while most women don't actually fantasize about being hit on by strange women the way many men do, they're pretty nonplussed when it happens.

Instead of "homophobia," perhaps the word should be "androphobia."

[Captain Kremmen]

It's a real word for the reason I've described, namely that Muslims want people to fear them and be afraid of them.[Moderator's note: I have deleted the original post.]

If that is true, then this is a sufficient reason for the existence of the word.
Even the belief would be a good reason.
Words are not arbiters.

Other than that. If the word exists, it exists.
Usage is the test.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Islamophobia is not a word because phobia is a Greek word, hence any word attached to it must be Greek also. Islam is not a Greek word.That's not correct. We mix radicals from different languages routinely. Tele- is Greek and -vision is Latin. Neo- is Greek and -conservative is Latin. Read- is Anglo-Saxon and -able is Norman French.

[Captain Kremmen]

The most common example of this is the word television.

Television........The word is derived from mixed Latin and Greek roots, meaning "far sight": Greek tele (τῆλε), far, and Latin visio, sight (from video, vis- to see, or to view in the first person).

From wiki

Posted later.
Sorry frag, you've just said that.:o
Well, I said it was a common example.

[Cellar_Door]

It's like adding the suffix 'oholic' to so called 'addictions' like shopping and chocolate. It's just sloppy, lazy and imprecise.

[(Q)]

That's not correct. We mix radicals from different languages routinely. Tele- is Greek and -vision is Latin. Neo- is Greek and -conservative is Latin. Read- is Anglo-Saxon and -able is Norman French.

That's what's called word games. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Word_game)

[S.A.M.]

So television is not a word?

[GeoffP]

Instead of "homophobia," perhaps the word should be "androphobia."

But wouldn't that more imply fear of all men? Surely there's a finer term.

[camilus]

Not EVERY word is in the dictionary. Islamophobia sounds ridiculous but is probably true.

Like SAM said,

In 1997, the British Runnymede Trust defined Islamophobia as the "dread or hatred of Islam and therefore, to the fear and dislike of all Muslims," stating that it also refers to the practice of discriminating against Muslims by excluding them from the economic, social, and public life of the nation. It includes the perception that Islam has no values in common with other cultures, is inferior to the West and is a violent political ideology rather than a religion.[4] Professor Anne Sophie Roald writes that steps were taken toward official acceptance of the term in January 2001 at the "Stockholm International Forum on Combating Intolerance", where Islamophobia was recognized as a form of intolerance alongside Xenophobia and Antisemitism.

[Cellar_Door]

Anti-Semitism is a stupid and misused term anyway; it's nearly always applied to Jews while not all Jews are Semites and not all Semites are Jewish.

Why not 'anti-Jewish' or 'anti-Islamic' - surely that conveys the meaning of this relatively unknown phrase rather than just crudely sticking 'phobia' at the end. A phobia is an irrational fear, not a hatred.

[Captain Kremmen]

It's like adding the suffix 'oholic' to so called 'addictions' like shopping and chocolate. It's just sloppy, lazy and imprecise.


Its worse than that.
It's sloppoholic, lazoholic, and imprecisoholic. :)

A definition that covers "hatred or fear" of something, is definitely sloppoholic.

[GeoffP]

Anti-Semitism is a stupid and misused term anyway; it's nearly always applied to Jews while not all Jews are Semites and not all Semites are Jewish.

Why not 'anti-Jewish' or 'anti-Islamic' - surely that conveys the meaning of this relatively unknown phrase rather than just crudely sticking 'phobia' at the end. A phobia is an irrational fear, not a hatred.

Makes sense.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Anti-Semitism is a stupid and misused term anyway; it's nearly always applied to Jews while not all Jews are Semites and not all Semites are Jewish.As I pointed out in my first post. Dictionary definitions make that clear; it's not about Semites, just Jews. It would surely be a good idea to remind the Jews and the Arabs that they are brethren.Why not 'anti-Jewish' or 'anti-Islamic' - surely that conveys the meaning of this relatively unknown phrase rather than just crudely sticking 'phobia' at the end. A phobia is an irrational fear, not a hatred.As I also pointed out, what my people feel toward Muslims really is as much fear as hatred. Watch a woman in one of those ninja outfits get onto the subway with her husband and see what happens. The Americans will quietly get out at the next station and move to another car. They will NOT get in her face, which is what they traditionally do when they hate somebody. Although I suppose that's the precise problem: you can't get in somebody's face if they're dressed like a ninja. :)

[fantasus]

How shall we understand all this?Why not openly say that everybody is obliged to accept that religion without to many questions? I cannot see from the definition any distinction between a possible justified criticism of islam and "intolerance". So I guess any criticism is seen as "intolerant". (The same coukld be the case with words like "antiamericanism" or in fact most "anti --isms".
Another thing about any "fobia" : Is it just a word for "dislike"? or "insane" dislike?
(We have imported that word to my language too).

[Enmos]

I think Cellar door meant to say it is not an official word. Obviously any arrangement of words and/or pre- or suffixes are words, they probably just don't all are officially recognized words.

[Fraggle Rocker]

Another thing about any "fobia" : Is it just a word for "dislike"? or "insane" dislike?Absolutely not. Phobia is Greek for "fear." (In English we use the Latin transcription of PH for the Greek letter phi.) For example, just starting with the A's, acrophobia, agoraphobia, ailurophobia and arachnophibia are, respectively, an intense and irrational fear of heights, open spaces, cats and spiders.

This transcends dislike or hatred but it is also distinctly different from dislike or hatred. Admittedly, when you get into the political realm, the difference gets blurry. The word "xenophobia" means "fear of foreign culture, especially of its impact on one's own culture," but it's now taken to mean "intolerance or hatred of foreigners."I think Cellar door meant to say it is not an official word. Obviously any arrangement of words and/or pre- or suffixes are words, they probably just don't all are officially recognized words.We don't have "official" words in English. For de facto standards, look to our newspapers. They are eager to keep up with trends and appeal to young people, so they generally use new words as soon as they are in wide enough use that they can reasonably expect their readers to understand them. English-language dictionaries generally accept a new word after it has appeared in print in news or academic media several times. But dictionaries are not published as often as newspapers so you won't find the newest words there. In addition they want to avoid slang that might disappear by the time the edition is published, so they're likely to be more conservative about picking up colloquialisms rather than technical jargon.

[mikenostic]

Absolutely not. Phobia is Greek for "fear." (In English we use the Latin transcription of PH for the Greek letter phi.) For example, just starting with the A's, acrophobia, agoraphobia, ailurophobia and arachnophibia are, respectively, an intense and irrational fear of heights, open spaces, cats and spiders.

This transcends dislike or hatred but it is also distinctly different from dislike or hatred. Admittedly, when you get into the political realm, the difference gets blurry. The word "xenophobia" means "fear of foreign culture, especially of its impact on one's own culture," but it's now taken to mean "intolerance or hatred of foreigners."We don't have "official" words in English. For de facto standards, look to our newspapers. They are eager to keep up with trends and appeal to young people, so they generally use new words as soon as they are in wide enough use that they can reasonably expect their readers to understand them. English-language dictionaries generally accept a new word after it has appeared in print in news or academic media several times. But dictionaries are not published as often as newspapers so you won't find the newest words there. In addition they want to avoid slang that might disappear by the time the edition is published, so they're likely to be more conservative about picking up colloquialisms rather than technical jargon.

I was about to post something to this nature but you beat me to it Fraggle.
phobia is the 'adjactive-suffix' for fear of something. It more or less can be tacked on to anything someone fears. Just like FR states above, there are 'phobia' words for anything you fear, including fear of words (logophobia)...LOL.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/logophobia

[fantasus]

Absolutely not. Phobia is Greek for "fear." (In English we use the Latin transcription of PH for the Greek letter phi.) For example, just starting with the A's, acrophobia, agoraphobia, ailurophobia and arachnophibia are, respectively, an intense and irrational fear of heights, open spaces, cats and spiders.

This transcends dislike or hatred but it is also distinctly different from dislike or hatred. Admittedly, when you get into the political realm, the difference gets blurry. . So, It seems I was wrong about the details - the exact meaning of the word. I still find there is very serious problem with accepting the word. If we use it, and not make it clear if there is any difference between justified criticism and this "irrational extreme fear", we will end up with a silent agreement there can be no such justified criticism. If there can be only irrational criticism of an ideology or religion, what can the reason be? Perhaps because we all has to accept it is perfect. By decree?

[Fraggle Rocker]

If there can be only irrational criticism of an ideology or religion, what can the reason be?By highlighting a couple of words in your question, I think I may have answered it. :)