View Full Version : Is God Really Pro-Life?
SetiAlpha6
10-12-08, 12:54 PM
What do you think?
Baron Max
10-12-08, 01:05 PM
Not according to the Bible. And as I understand it, the god of the Muslims isn't pro-life either according to the Koran.
See? God knows that there are evil people in the world that should die!
Baron Max
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-12-08, 01:30 PM
It's obvious.
CutsieMarie89
10-12-08, 02:12 PM
Pro life as in abortion or pro-life as in not killing everybody all the time? It doesn't matter, the answers no for both.
SetiAlpha6
10-12-08, 03:13 PM
I agree!
God does not appear to be Pro-Life Himself.
So if I am personally Pro-Life, might that place me in open rebellion against God's will?
It would seem so.
CutsieMarie89
10-12-08, 03:24 PM
I agree!
God does not appear to be Pro-Life Himself.
So if I am personally Pro-Life, might that place me in open rebellion against God's will?
It would seem so.
I don't think so, at least as far as abortion is concerned. But for not putting people to death for every minor infraction then yes that does go against God's will. If you don't stone everyone you know for committing adultery then you are disobeying a direct order from God himself.
SetiAlpha6
10-12-08, 04:29 PM
I don't think so, at least as far as abortion is concerned. But for not putting people to death for every minor infraction then yes that does go against God's will. If you don't stone everyone you know for committing adultery then you are disobeying a direct order from God himself.
I think that abortion would have to be included in this since the killing of a sinful woman would automatically result in the abortion of any resulting innocent fetus from a sexual union. Parents are supposed to stone to death their own daughter if she is found to not be a virgin on her wedding day. So they are basically commanded to participate in the abortion of their own grand children, right?
What "wonderful" family values we have here!
Eidolan
10-12-08, 11:31 PM
God is obviously pro-death as well as pro-life because if god was only pro-life, we would be immortal.
Judge for yourself...
Zephaniah 1:18-19 (New International Version)
I will bring distress on the people
and they will walk like blind men,
because they have sinned against the LORD.
Their blood will be poured out like dust
and their entrails like filth.
Neither their silver nor their gold
will be able to save them
on the day of the LORD's wrath.
In the fire of his jealousy
the whole world will be consumed,
for he will make a sudden end
of all who live in the earth.
mynameisDan
10-12-08, 11:53 PM
God is prolife which is why it is written that "thou shall not kill (ie. murder)". God, being the Creator, has the right to take life and delegates this right to the state to punish evil doers. Being pro life has nothing to do with excercising the right of self defense. killing defenseless children while they reside in the womb is in opposition to the biblical God, which is why so many Christians oppose it.
Obviously prodeath or he wouldn't have created death.
Leo Volont
10-13-08, 02:08 AM
PRO LIFE has always been just a Political Calculation.
Originally the Catholics threw in behind it to increase their numbers, back in the days when Statesmen and Presidents calculated their chances in War by the Birthrate of the Countries they were allied with. The Unaborted Fetus today will be tomorrows Solder -- "Charge those Machine Guns! (after enough bodies those guns have GOT to run out of bullets!)"
Then the Republicans did the math and decided that their own Pro-Life Program would suck in the Catholic Vote, normally Democratic (Remember John Kennedy), and change the entire Electoral Landscape. And the Stupid Bishops could not guess what was happening. So the Pro Life Aggenda made allies between otherwise decent Catholics and those Scum Bag Predatory Protestants, Republicans for short.
Actually, in the Bible they make it clearly to be understood that a Baby, even when born, is not a Human Being until the Presentation. Well into the Modern Era it is largely to be expected that a great deal of Nostril Pinching was going on, that is, suffocating the baby shortly after birth, and telling the mother that the poor little baby did not make it. Really, when people used to look around and see that a Family's resources were hardly sufficient to support the present conglomeration of mouths to feed, then between a practical father and a realistic Mid-wife, they would see their sad duty before them. Indeed, the rather sizeable Infant Mortality Rates of the past centuries make little sense otherwise.
The way it is now, anybody who agitates for Pro-Life should be placed on a list of those who would willingly receive any baby that could be dropped off on their doorstep, and then they would be held responsible for their entire upbringing, and responsible for the consequences also -- if one of their Charges becomes a Criminal and goes to Prison, well, we can see that there was a failure to Take Responsibility and the Do Gooder Pro-Life person should go to jail too. Really, anytime a person, who would have been aborted in the normal scheme of things goes bad and turns into a social burden or a social liability, they should round up some Pro-Life Person to pay and take the blame.
As it is now they just go to rallies and shoot their mouths off, vote for Predator Politicians, and laugh at the consequences... pleased that God is forgiving them all their Sins after Sin after Sin.
Michael
10-13-08, 03:10 AM
What do you think?No because God often seen too it all the people were murdered, including pregnant mothers.
Pandaemoni
10-13-08, 03:18 AM
God is prolife which is why it is written that "thou shall not kill (ie. murder)". God, being the Creator, has the right to take life and delegates this right to the state to punish evil doers. Being pro life has nothing to do with excercising the right of self defense. killing defenseless children while they reside in the womb is in opposition to the biblical God, which is why so many Christians oppose it.
Exactly right. It is also why He is anti-contraception, because you are murdering children the He wants born. God knows each child before conception, hence the prescription against onanism and seed spilling, which applies equally well to contraception.
That's why I have to reject God's silly standards on those points.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-13-08, 05:30 AM
Leo --- Well into the Modern Era it is largely to be expected that a great deal of Nostril Pinching was going on, that is, suffocating the baby shortly after birth, and telling the mother that the poor little baby did not make it. Really, when people used to look around and see that a Family's resources were hardly sufficient to support the present conglomeration of mouths to feed, then between a practical father and a realistic Mid-wife, they would see their sad duty before them.
Stranger =====Sadly that did happen who knows how many times but
Leo --- Indeed, the rather sizeable Infant Mortality Rates of the past centuries make little sense otherwise.
Stranger =====... there were other reasons for high infant mortality rates.
Leo --- The way it is now, anybody who agitates for Pro-Life should be placed on a list of those who would willingly receive any baby that could be dropped off on their doorstep
Stranger ==== I'd be the 1st on that list but the rest of that paragraph is absurd.
Seti --- What "wonderful" family values we have here!
Stranger ==== The Holy Babble is the worst values & the ignorant arrogant hypocrites irk me when they claim high morals. It's actually very anti family.
Eidolan --- if god was only pro-life, we would be immortal.
Stranger ==== Christians believe they will live forever & most believe all others will also tho in agony.
Onan wasn't a matter of seed spilling in general. He was defeating a specific purpose.
SetiAlpha6
10-13-08, 01:46 PM
killing defenseless children while they reside in the womb is in opposition to the biblical God, which is why so many Christians oppose it.
Then why does God command that a woman who has had sexual intercourse outside of marriage be killed when He knows full well that there could easily be a defenseless child residing within her? Killing her means killing that innocent child and yet that is exactly what the God of the Bible commands.
Why must that innocent child die for the sins of his/her mother under the command of God? What sin has that child done?
I really would appreciate an explanation for this! :bugeye:
amark317
10-13-08, 02:04 PM
I think that this pic should end any debate in this forum about god.http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2008/04/02/jesus-takes-issue-with-you/jesusjpg-2/
sorry, internet's being slow, it's the second one I'm talking about.
God being pro-life doesn't neccessarily mean that we wouldn't die, it's just that he wouldn't kill us.
amark317
10-13-08, 02:05 PM
ooh, my bad. pic not working. well, here's the url
http://www.myconfinedspace.com/2008/04/02/jesus-takes-issue-with-you/jesusjpg-2/
amark317
10-13-08, 02:05 PM
it's still the second picture.
I think it's pretty much an irrelevant question. Convince me that God exists first..
SetiAlpha6
10-13-08, 03:08 PM
I think it's pretty much an irrelevant question. Convince me that God exists first..
For you, and many others, it may not be a relevant question. But... how does that make the question irrelevant for everyone else on this earth?
mynameisDan
10-13-08, 03:25 PM
I think it's pretty much an irrelevant question. Convince me that God exists first..
Why should we? We prefer to let you live in your ignorance.
mynameisDan
10-13-08, 03:28 PM
Obviously prodeath or he wouldn't have created death.
death is an event silly, not a material thing.
For you, and many others, it may not be a relevant question. But... how does that make the question irrelevant for everyone else on this earth?
How can one question attributes of something of which there is not even a speck of evidence ? What's the point ?
Why should we? We prefer to let you live in your ignorance.
Too late..
SetiAlpha6
10-13-08, 04:34 PM
How can one question attributes of something of which there is not even a speck of evidence ? What's the point ?
You are right, it would probably have no point for you.
But this is surely not irrelevant for all of the millions of very real people who have been taught that the Bible is the one and only perfect moral guide and is the inerrant "Word of God". These people are often taught that if they dare question this Book they are in peril for their soul on that basis alone.
The point is that it is a very healthy thing for anyone to question their own belief system, no matter what it is. It can help guard against arrogance and narrow mindedness.
Is that possible?
SetiAlpha6
10-13-08, 04:48 PM
Why should we? We prefer to let you live in your ignorance.
That is not very loving of you!
You cannot be a follower of Jesus! Jesus commanded you to love your enemies!
Who are you following then?
A large fraction of pregnancies (about half as I recall) spontaneously abort very early on, usually before the mother is even aware she was pregnant. If you believe that an embryo is a person with a soul from the moment of conception, then about half of the souls that exist were only around on earth as embryos for a few days.
lightgigantic
10-13-08, 10:21 PM
What do you think?
yes and no
BG 7.6 All created beings have their source in these two natures. Of all that is material and all that is spiritual in this world, know for certain that I am both the origin and the dissolution.
PsychoticEpisode
10-13-08, 10:27 PM
LG...you once told me that all cells have a soul. I realize that there are different degrees of soulness but of the ovum and the sperm....2 souls becoming one? Or is one soulless? If the sperm contains a soul then why do we need so many if the vast majority die? Souls lounging around in soul land can choose to be reborn as a sperm?
lightgigantic
10-13-08, 10:32 PM
LG...you once told me that all cells have a soul. I realize that there are different degrees of soulness but of the ovum and the sperm....2 souls becoming one? Or is one soulless? If the sperm contains a soul then why do we need so many if the vast majority die? Souls lounging around in soul land can choose to be reborn as a sperm?
fertilization provides a vehicle for the soul to inhabit - kind of like there may be a bus full of 60 people, but only one is in the driver's seat
PsychoticEpisode
10-13-08, 10:42 PM
fertilization provides a vehicle for the soul to inhabit - kind of like there may be a bus full of 60 people, but only one is in the driver's seat
So does that mean that there can be no soul or maybe its no life unless both seemingly living (but maybe not) components combine? So with millions of sperm all trying to get to the driver's seat it sounds as if they are all alive, with a soul but only one soul gets to mature so to speak. The soul inhabiting the original egg...does it get a seat on the bus too?
Countless googols of sperm each containing a soul that has made a conscious decision to be a sperm cell are being killed every day. Why is this carnage permitted? A soul in purgatory does not seem to possess much in the way of smarts but are definitely great risk takers.
If each cell contains a soul then where do the extra souls come from. What is the method of delivery? It seems strange that countless zillions are killed off only to have others make it in to the human zygote/human being anyway.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-13-08, 11:01 PM
How can one question attributes of something of which there is not even a speck of evidence ? What's the point ?
What's your point?
Soul isn't something you have, its something you make.
Diode-Man
10-14-08, 01:40 AM
God is pro-balance. I hope. :-)
Diode-Man
10-14-08, 01:41 AM
Soul isn't something you have, its something you make.
Soul is something you have and then build up or destroy. :shrug:
greenberg
10-14-08, 03:03 AM
God is obviously pro-death as well as pro-life because if god was only pro-life, we would be immortal.
Are we not immortal?
lightgigantic
10-14-08, 06:34 PM
So does that mean that there can be no soul or maybe its no life unless both seemingly living (but maybe not) components combine? So with millions of sperm all trying to get to the driver's seat it sounds as if they are all alive, with a soul but only one soul gets to mature so to speak. The soul inhabiting the original egg...does it get a seat on the bus too?
Countless googols of sperm each containing a soul that has made a conscious decision to be a sperm cell are being killed every day. Why is this carnage permitted? A soul in purgatory does not seem to possess much in the way of smarts but are definitely great risk takers.
If each cell contains a soul then where do the extra souls come from. What is the method of delivery? It seems strange that countless zillions are killed off only to have others make it in to the human zygote/human being anyway.
The idea is this.
each cell has a soul (since it has life)
those cells that afford the opportunity for fertilization are simply providing the opportunity for a soul to incarnate (IOW it is not a case of the soul inhabiting either the sperm or the ovary that proceeds on to be the zygote)
I am not sure why you are saying this suggestion requires that countless souls get curtailed or manifested to maintain the status quo.
flameofanor5
10-21-08, 11:07 PM
[Assuming God exists] God as in The God of Islam? God of Christianity? Im not sure about Islam, but I know the Bible says that if you strike a pregnant women and harm the baby,(even if you dont kill it) You are punishable by whatever the mother chooses.
flameofanor5
10-21-08, 11:11 PM
How can one question attributes of something of which there is not even a speck of evidence ? What's the point ?
One of the laws of thermodynamics says matter can not be created or destroyed. There's evidence for ya. Although, one piece of evidence is not enough to prove anything, lets see you give some evidence for evolution before you ask for evidence from Creationists.
SetiAlpha6
10-22-08, 12:01 AM
[Assuming God exists] God as in The God of Islam? God of Christianity? Im not sure about Islam, but I know the Bible says that if you strike a pregnant women and harm the baby,(even if you dont kill it) You are punishable by whatever the mother chooses.
That sounds pretty good, maybe, in some cases, but I think that only applies to married and legitimately pregnant women. Those are the only ones who would be left alive. Well, maybe not all of the others would be killed. Some of them will be protected and hidden from the faithful and some of these poor children will inevitably be born. They would be in violation of the Law to do this, of course.
In the Bible, such children are considered to be and are branded as illegitimate children for life. Welcome to the world bastard! Yes that really is a Biblical word... Where do you think this whole idea comes from?
Deuteronomy 23:2
"A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD."
In the Bible, a single pregnant woman is supposed to be killed for her sin, baby and all. And an adulterous married woman is supposed to be killed for her sin as well. But some will slip through the cracks and they will deal with them.
What do you think? Is that justice for the mother or baby? Is that even justice for the next ten generations of offspring of this innocent child?
Actually, it might be the very best thing for this kid's family. That way perhaps, just perhaps, they won't have to go on killing each other generation after generation for sin, if they get kicked out of the faith for that long. And they may never go back and decide to choose a life of love, mercy, and forgiveness instead.
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