View Full Version : question for xians
scorpius
10-05-08, 06:32 PM
if Jesus took all the Sins upon him,how can YOU be a Sinner?
Through understanding of Jesus you can find forgiveness. Jesus's existence does not eradicate free will. If you have trouble understanding his death and forgiveness and the fact that people die for righteous causes every day, not just Jesus, understand this: He is divine.
Imagine it this way. A man rapes and murders your wife and tortures your children to death, extending their lives for several weeks and allows you to watch. He eats parts of them in front of you, while they are still alive. After your family is dead he kills you slowly over a period of a year.
Once dead in heaven you are reunited with your family. One of your daughters was judged by God as being unfit for heaven for the thoughts she had while being tortured. Her soul is lost (in a place you cannot go) forever.
But this tortuous man needs a servant on Earth to wipe his posterior for the rest of his life as he has become to slothful to do it himself. You volunteer to return to earth, away from the love of your family to do this deed for this man for thirty six years, after which he will torture and kill you. You, taking on this task, may or may not be reunited with your family. You leave Heaven with your family pleading and begging you to stay with them in eternity. Multiply by ten and this is what Jesus's gift was to you. Comprende?
Through understanding of Jesus you can find forgiveness. Jesus's existence does not eradicate free will. If you have trouble understanding his death and forgiveness and the fact that people die for righteous causes every day, not just Jesus, understand this: He is divine.
How deliciously convoluted. It does display how little even the faithful understand about their own faith, though...
How deliciously convoluted. It does display how little even the faithful understand about their own faith, though...
Yes, understanding forgiveness through Jesus is complicated for me. I may have not expressed it in a way that would be helpful to others. My apologies.
How deliciously convoluted. It does display how little even the faithful understand about their own faith, though...
How would you answer the thread?
flameofanor5
10-05-08, 11:19 PM
if Jesus took all the Sins upon him,how can YOU be a Sinner?
Because you have not yet "given them to him". Jesus died for them, that doesn't mean we have to give them up to him. It's like buying a cake for everyone, you buy it for everyone, but not everyone accepts it. (sorry wierd analogy).
OilIsMastery
10-05-08, 11:46 PM
if Jesus took all the Sins upon him,how can YOU be a Sinner?
Very easily.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-06-08, 01:48 AM
if Jesus took all the Sins upon him,how can YOU be a Sinner?
I'm not.
Because you have not yet "given them to him". Jesus died for them, that doesn't mean we have to give them up to him. It's like buying a cake for everyone, you buy it for everyone, but not everyone accepts it. (sorry wierd analogy).
Jesus did not die for me.
Very easily.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
I'm as righteous as I can be. If my best falls short of some inhuman "ideal" & I'm punished for that, it's simply insane.
I cannot obey or disobey something which does not exist or something which I don't know exists.
OilIsMastery
10-06-08, 01:58 AM
I'm as righteous as I can be.
So what are you worried about?
If my best falls short of some inhuman "ideal" & I'm punished for that, it's simply insane.
I agree totally.
I cannot obey or disobey something which does not exist or something which I don't know exists.
You know in your heart that morals exist. And if you're honest with yourself you'll have to admit that true morals can only come from one being in the universe, namely God.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-06-08, 02:29 AM
So what are you worried about?
What, me worry?
You know in your heart that morals exist. And if you're honest with yourself you'll have to admit that true morals can only come from one being in the universe, namely God.
Don't tell me what I know & don't know.
Did you read this :
I cannot obey or disobey something which does not exist or something which I don't know exists.
Yes, understanding forgiveness through Jesus is complicated for me. I may have not expressed it in a way that would be helpful to others. My apologies.
I would have said that it's utter nonsense, a way to make his death sound as if it served a purpose beyond what it actually was. It is made to sound intentional, as if it was the plan all along, because it has to in order for Jesus to remain a deity. A god can't be tricked by Man.
But to the question, which was, "if Jesus died for our sins, how can we be sinners?" I would say that it doesn't really seem that he did die for our sins. We are still born with original sin (why we are baptized), and we can still sin on our own...so I'm not really sure how they spin that one.
See? You asked, I answered. More than I can say for you.
SkinWalker
10-06-08, 11:05 PM
You know in your heart that morals exist. And if you're honest with yourself you'll have to admit that true morals can only come from one being in the universe, namely God.
Given that the morals of Christianity have been contrary to the morals of secular society on many occasions, this god (if yours is the Christian god) must be one evil bastard. I want little to do with your god's morals and I'm rather satisfied with those of humanity based on human experience.
After all, it is human morality based on human experience that has rejected nonsensical and evil practices of stoning adulterers, taking slaves, killing those that don't keep the sabbath, offering your daughter up for gang-rape, etc. Biblical atrocities like these have no place in moral society.
Further, given that there are billions of people who don't recognize your own god and have god(s) of their own, its very clear that morality isn't a "divine" attribute at all and that it is a wonderful construct of human society.
PsychoticEpisode
10-06-08, 11:30 PM
Do we accumulate sin debt? At what point does God call in His loan? When does he 'bail us out'. Slaughtering the world seemed to be an ample arrangement for the first round and knocking off Jesus seemed to be His method of repayment for a second go round.
Who gets to die when our credit gets streched again? This is obviously how God solves his credit crunch. Yet He still continues to collect interest on His loaning us Life and on original sin, since we are still dying. Hard to believe that we even add to the sin debt total by being born, truly amazing!!
Given that the morals of Christianity have been contrary to the morals of secular society on many occasions, this god (if yours is the Christian god) must be one evil bastard. I want little to do with your god's morals and I'm rather satisfied with those of humanity based on human experience.
After all, it is human morality based on human experience that has rejected nonsensical and evil practices of stoning adulterers, taking slaves, killing those that don't keep the sabbath, offering your daughter up for gang-rape, etc. Biblical atrocities like these have no place in moral society.
Further, given that there are billions of people who don't recognize your own god and have god(s) of their own, its very clear that morality isn't a "divine" attribute at all and that it is a wonderful construct of human society.
That is what people did and i am not so sure it was just do to religion.
SkinWalker
10-06-08, 11:43 PM
That is what people did and i am not so sure it was just do to religion.
There were several verbs and a couple of themes to that short post. Could you at least narrow down which paragraph if not which specific point you were responding to?
Medicine*Woman
10-07-08, 09:55 AM
if Jesus took all the Sins upon him,how can YOU be a Sinner?
*************
M*W: Excellent question. That seems to be the contradiction of christianity. The trick here is in order for Jesus to take the sins away, you gotta believe that he died for you. I just don't understand the logic in this. I didn't come into this world to be saved from anything, and I never asked for it. All I could see that this mind-set does is bring guilt and fear into a person's life. To me, that is the description of hell.
Medicine*Woman
10-07-08, 10:15 AM
Very easily.
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)
*************
M*W: I believe there is an astro-theological meaning in these two passages:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
As I understand this, I would question exactly what does it mean when it says written, and I would assume that, considering the time this was written, it would mean that anything that was not written down was not considered as authentic as oral traditions.
Moving on:
"As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:" (Romans 3:10)
Astro-theologically taken, I believe when it refers to rightousness (a metaphor) for anything lesser than the sun/son of god, who is not as righteous as the sun/son of god. I understand that that the ancients believed that the darkness of night became known as "sin." They believed that the the sun/son of god, the creator of the universe, was the supreme being, creator of all things.
Some cultures of the day believed that the moon was called "sin," as in the darkness or time of evil when the sun/son of god hid behind the Earth when the ancients couldn't see their "god."
The NT (and even in the OT), there are hidden meanings in the scripture that refers to astrological (logos) or god-like figures, includes the belief that the sun was the son of god.
Venus, the Morningstar, rises with the sun, so in essence, the planet Venus is also believed to be the sun/sun of god. The devil was also called the Morningstar, or one who is there at the right hand of god, but who is lesser than god (the sun). My take on this is that the planets in our solar system are lesser than the sun/son of god.
Moving on:
"For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God." (Romans 3:23)[/QUOTE]
All the constellations, stars and planets have experienced the darkness of night (evil) as well as the brightness of day (good). All these things have "sinned," and have not and will never live up to the solar-centric placement of the sun in our universe.
scorpius
10-08-08, 10:12 PM
*************
M*W: Excellent question. That seems to be the contradiction of christianity. The trick here is in order for Jesus to take the sins away, you gotta believe that he died for you. I just don't understand the logic in this.
neither do I,but then logic and religion doesnt mix well as the xian responses prove.
also what about people who never heard about Jesus or lived before his time?
did he took their sins away also?
all that SIN is just Self Inflicted Nonsense
Medicine*Woman
10-08-08, 11:55 PM
neither do I,but then logic and religion doesnt mix well as the xian responses prove.
also what about people who never heard about Jesus or lived before his time?
did he took their sins away also?
all that SIN is just Self Inflicted Nonsense
*************
M*W: I love it!
if Jesus took all the Sins upon him,how can YOU be a Sinner?
In eternity i am not a sinner, All my sins have been covered by the blood of Jesus. But i am not in eternity from my perspective. I am still in universal time. Therefore in Gods Eternity i am covered by the blood of Jesus and am accounted as righteous through believing Him. But in this universal time from my perspective i am a sinner with still a lot of sinning to do.( that’s if i live a normal life time).
It is all about what perspective your looking at time scorpius. Our times here in the universe or God time in His place.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
rjr6 Imagine it this way.
Wow, not only is that the worst analogy for JC I've ever seen, its pretty high on the sick and twisted scale. I would definately cross the street to avoid him if that's what is going on. You should like see a therapist or get committed or start doing drugs. The xtianity is obviously not working out so well.
Adstar: in Gods Eternity i am covered by the blood of Jesus
Eew! Man! Eating his flesh drinking his blood covered in his blood for all Eternity... you guys are grossing me out.
Did you read this :
I cannot obey or disobey something which does not exist or something which I don't know exists.
You can decide if a directive is worthy of being obeyed or not worthy of being obeyed. It should not matter to you if the Director exists or not. If you are given a message, a code of living. You can decide if it is worthy to follow or worthy to be discarded.
In truth those who are moved by the truth of the directives will believe in the Director. But those who hate the directives belief in the Director is resisted with full vigor.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar: in Gods Eternity i am covered by the blood of Jesus
Eew! Man! Eating his flesh drinking his blood covered in his blood for all Eternity... you guys are grossing me out.
Do you have no grasp of simple symbolic speech?
Or are you just being obstinately immature?
I expect such form a 5 year old.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-09-08, 06:56 AM
You can decide if a directive is worthy of being obeyed or not worthy of being obeyed. It should not matter to you if the Director exists or not. If you are given a message, a code of living. You can decide if it is worthy to follow or worthy to be discarded.
In truth those who are moved by the truth of the directives will believe in the Director. But those who hate the directives belief in the Director is resisted with full vigor.
Convoluted doubletalk.
Do you preach to animals?
Adstar: Do you have no grasp of simple symbolic speech?
Sure, except eating his flesh and drinking his blood and being washed in his blood aren't just ugly metaphors, they are supposedly the gospel truth.
transubstantiation: the changing of the elements of the bread and wine, when they are consecrated in the Eucharist, into the body and blood of Christ
1 Corinthians 11
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
Note he did not say "this means/represents/symbolizes my body." He said "this is my body."
Now if ritual cannibalism bothers you, maybe you should rethink choosing a religion where it is the central tenet of "salvation." But don't blame me for being able to read and understand what is written.
Speaking of xtian oddities why the big play up of his suffering.
Less than a day of torture. Nailed to a cross but then immediately stabbed and killed by a spear.
As bad as that sounds it ain't squat compared to what people suffer on a regular basis.
People go through years of mind numbing torture followed by truly grusome and prolonged deaths, not just from other humans but from disease as well.
Even compared to others of the day JC had it pretty light for what the Romans regularly dished out to miscreants.
Seems like for a god he chickened out. Sure it sucked, but people have taken worse to save others from his followers and their tortures.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-09-08, 07:24 AM
Even as metaphor, it's damned nasty crap.
I've suffered thousands times more than what The Holy Babble says happened to him.
Adstar: Do you have no grasp of simple symbolic speech?
Sure, except eating his flesh and drinking his blood and being washed in his blood aren't just ugly metaphors, they are supposedly the gospel truth.
transubstantiation: the changing of the elements of the bread and wine, when they are consecrated in the Eucharist, into the body and blood of Christ
transubstantiation is a catholic teaching. Not a Christian teaching. I am a Christian Not a cathoic. You may as well try quoting an islamic teaching on Jesus to me, it would have the same level of authority with me... None.
1 Corinthians 11
24 and when he had given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25 In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
Plain and clear symbolism. Jesus was instituting an act of remembrance for what He was about to do. But as i said in another post. Those who desperately want to disbelieve will like satan promote the twisted version of Jesus as the true version to help them reject the truth of God and the true Messiah Jesus. You here confirm the point i made. How knowledgeable you are in the balaam traditions of men.
Note he did not say "this means/represents/symbolizes my body." He said "this is my body."
Now if ritual cannibalism bothers you, maybe you should rethink choosing a religion where it is the central tenet of "salvation." But don't blame me for being able to read and understand what is written.
It is the Holy Spirit that gives one understanding. But to those who seek to run into darkness (symbolic speech there) the thoughts of men will suffice.
satan is laughing at you.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Speaking of xtian oddities why the big play up of his suffering.
Less than a day of torture. Nailed to a cross but then immediately stabbed and killed by a spear.
He was not killed by being stabbed. The solider stabbed Him to test if He was dead. He was already dead.
As bad as that sounds it ain't squat compared to what people suffer on a regular basis.
People go through years of mind numbing torture followed by truly grusome and prolonged deaths, not just from other humans but from disease as well.
Even compared to others of the day JC had it pretty light for what the Romans regularly dished out to miscreants.
You are mistaken.
Seems like for a god he chickened out. Sure it sucked, but people have taken worse to save others from his followers and their tortures.
True followers of Jesus have tortured no one. False ones have of course, tortured and killed millions in the name of Jesus they have. I guess once again it is more comforting for you to desperately hold onto the false as true to make rejection of the True easier.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-09-08, 08:01 AM
I guess once again it is more comforting for you to desperately hold onto the false as true to make rejection of the True easier.
The pot calls the toilet black.
Adstar: transubstantiation is a catholic teaching. Not a Christian teaching. I am a Christian Not a cathoic.
Catholics are as much or more christians as you protestant noobs are so save me the internecine squabbling. They at least have a direct lineage supposedly back to JC. All you have is that nut job Luther.
Catholic, Orthadox, protestant, Coptic, Rasta, Universalist, Mormon you are all as true a Christian as the next Christian. Get over it all ready.
A little something from before you guys got schism all over:
“From the Eucharist and the prayer they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.” St Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 7. (Ignatious of Antioch was a direct disciple of John, handpicked to be the bishop of his city.)
“The food that has been made the Eucharist by the prayer of His word, and which nourishes our flesh and blood by assimilation, is both the flesh and blood of that Jesus Who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, Apology 1,66.
And a bit of history: The RCC held to transubstantiation, the bread and wine is transformed into the body and blood of Christ; the Lutheran's who held to consubstantiation, the literal body and blood is present "in, with, and under" the bread and the wine, Calvinists who held that there is a spiritual presence in the elements but not a physical one and finally the Anabaptists who held that there is no presence at all but is strictly symbolic.
[thanks to h ttp://ww w.theologyweb.com/campus/archive/index.php/t-20619.html for the details]
Adstar: satan is laughing at you.
Typical. How can you talk with people like this?
Adstar: He was not killed by being stabbed.
So he bailed before getting stabbed and the caught some lung juice in a cup and they add that to the wine/blood. Quite a mix there. Yum!
Adstar: You are mistaken.
I'm exactly and precisely spot on and you know it. Feel free to prove otherwise. The Romans could be extremely brutal. Read up on it. Consider the accounts of what happened in 70 CE to the last of the Jews. Even Peter had it tougher than JC. Face it. Compared to being burned alive like Joan or any number of those tortured and killed by Christians, JC's death was a dawdle.
Adstar: True followers of Jesus have tortured no one.
So the protestants of the reformation weren't "true?" Cause they sure killed and tortured a lot of people. Doesn't that throw your claim to be a christian in doubt?
I bet you'd be right gleeful if I burned in hell, wouldn't you?
Through understanding of Jesus you can find forgiveness. Jesus's existence does not eradicate free will. If you have trouble understanding his death and forgiveness and the fact that people die for righteous causes every day, not just Jesus, understand this: He is divine.
Imagine it this way. A man rapes and murders your wife and tortures your children to death, extending their lives for several weeks and allows you to watch. He eats parts of them in front of you, while they are still alive. After your family is dead he kills you slowly over a period of a year.
Once dead in heaven you are reunited with your family. One of your daughters was judged by God as being unfit for heaven for the thoughts she had while being tortured. Her soul is lost (in a place you cannot go) forever.
But this tortuous man needs a servant on Earth to wipe his posterior for the rest of his life as he has become to slothful to do it himself. You volunteer to return to earth, away from the love of your family to do this deed for this man for thirty six years, after which he will torture and kill you. You, taking on this task, may or may not be reunited with your family. You leave Heaven with your family pleading and begging you to stay with them in eternity. Multiply by ten and this is what Jesus's gift was to you. Comprende?
Sorry, but man has no free will. He is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Jeremiah 10:23, "Oh Lord, I know a man's life is not his own. It is not for a man to direct his steps." ;)
SkinWalker
10-09-08, 09:43 AM
If man has no free will, then your god knew I would be an atheist and consider him to be mythology. In that case, I cannot be held accountable for my so-called "rejection" of your god (in the same way I reject the thousands upon thousands of other gods that came before and after him), since it's his fault I'm an atheist.
I'm being sarcastic, btw.
scorpius
10-09-08, 09:59 PM
True followers of Jesus have tortured no one. False ones have of course, tortured and killed millions in the name of Jesus they have.
define TRUE and False xian for us would you..
Medicine*Woman
10-09-08, 11:18 PM
transubstantiation is a catholic teaching. Not a Christian teaching. I am a Christian Not a cathoic. You may as well try quoting an islamic teaching on Jesus to me, it would have the same level of authority with me... None.
Plain and clear symbolism. Jesus was instituting an act of remembrance for what He was about to do. But as i said in another post. Those who desperately want to disbelieve will like satan promote the twisted version of Jesus as the true version to help them reject the truth of God and the true Messiah Jesus. You here confirm the point i made. How knowledgeable you are in the balaam traditions of men.
It is the Holy Spirit that gives one understanding. But to those who seek to run into darkness (symbolic speech there) the thoughts of men will suffice.
satan is laughing at you.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
*************
M*W: Catholicism is a christian religion. Why is it that you people try to pretend this isn't true. You're just as much of a sun worshipper as they are. Their origins are the same.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
10-09-08, 11:43 PM
I grew up in & around several noncatholic christian sects including Baptists & Pentecostals & they believe & practice that crap you claim for only Catholics.
BTW, do you preach to animals?
scorpius
10-10-08, 09:39 PM
what happened.. cat got your tongue??
define TRUE and FALSE Christian
scorpius define TRUE and FALSE Christian
True xtian = the xtian talking and possibly xtians of almost exactly the same beliefs
False xtian = all other xtians
rjr6 Imagine it this way.
Wow, not only is that the worst analogy for JC I've ever seen, its pretty high on the sick and twisted scale. I would definately cross the street to avoid him if that's what is going on. You should like see a therapist or get committed or start doing drugs. The xtianity is obviously not working out so well.
Sorry for getting a little morbid. the concept of forgivenss/Christ is complex. The analogy sprung from atheists dismissing Jesus and a general perception of persons that pooh-pooh Jesus.
The analogy was not intended to describe Forgiveness/Sin/Christ/God. It was only intened to describe what Jesus sacrificed for humans by becoming one of us.
Sorry, but man has no free will. He is either a slave to sin or a slave to righteousness. Jeremiah 10:23, "Oh Lord, I know a man's life is not his own. It is not for a man to direct his steps." ;)
Are you saying that you do not have free will? What is your definition of free will?
rjr6 Sorry for getting a little morbid.
Its not your fault. Any one who tries to make sense of the actual stories ends up in sick and twisted land. Bible god, even JC, is a pretty disturbed individual. That's why the vast majority of people who read the bible for comprehension end up non xtians.
rjr6 It was only intened to describe what Jesus sacrificed for humans by becoming one of us.
Are you saying god is such a shoddy craftsman that being human is some big sacrifice? I thought we were his great master piece?
I'm still not that impressed with the whole JC sacrifice bit. Compared with what many go through JC got off easy. Part of a day of light torture and the he is barely up on the cross and he kicks off? Please! This is supposed to be the great sacrifice?
Go by amnesty international and read some real stories of torture and sacrifice. Years of crippling torture. Friends and family dismembered and killed. Deaths that drag on and on. Shoot there are diseases that are worse than what JC got, cluster headaches for example.
And what kind of "sacrifice" are we really talking about any way. Its not like anything happens to god he doesn't actually want to happen (which really makes it kind of masochistic). So he didn't really die for any sins, he just lost his shirt that he made to loose any way. It all seems like a cheap setup. Like he's mocking us.
Adstar: transubstantiation is a catholic teaching. Not a Christian teaching. I am a Christian Not a cathoic.
Catholics are as much or more christians as you protestant noobs are so save me the internecine squabbling. They at least have a direct lineage supposedly back to JC. All you have is that nut job Luther.
Who said i was protestant?
Did i say it? No. And the rabid anti-semitic righting’s of that nut job luther reveals he was no bother in Jesus with me.
Catholic, Orthadox, protestant, Coptic, Rasta, Universalist, Mormon you are all as true a Christian as the next Christian. Get over it all ready.
Nope. One who believes Jesus is a True Christian.
A little something from before you guys got schism all over:
“From the Eucharist and the prayer they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.” St Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 7. (Ignatious of Antioch was a direct disciple of John, handpicked to be the bishop of his city.)
Declared a saint by the catholic church. When all those who believe Jesus are Saints. I do not trust in the recorded history that is in rebellion against the truth.
“The food that has been made the Eucharist by the prayer of His word, and which nourishes our flesh and blood by assimilation, is both the flesh and blood of that Jesus Who was made flesh.” Justin Martyr, Apology 1,66.
justin was and is wrong.
Adstar: satan is laughing at you.
Typical. How can you talk with people like this?
Easy.
Adstar: He was not killed by being stabbed.
So he bailed before getting stabbed and the caught some lung juice in a cup and they add that to the wine/blood. Quite a mix there. Yum!
To quote your hypocritical self "How can you talk with people like this?"
I'm exactly and precisely spot on and you know it. Feel free to prove otherwise. The Romans could be extremely brutal. Read up on it. Consider the accounts of what happened in 70 CE to the last of the Jews. Even Peter had it tougher than JC. Face it. Compared to being burned alive like Joan or any number of those tortured and killed by Christians, JC's death was a dawdle.
You know only what you desire to know to justify your attack upon the Love of the truth. But your attack is not justified and never will be.
Adstar: True followers of Jesus have tortured no one.
So the protestants of the reformation weren't "true?" Cause they sure killed and tortured a lot of people. Doesn't that throw your claim to be a christian in doubt?
There you go again calling me a protestant. Grabbing for boxes to put me in to calm your sence of unease. Well it isn't going to work anti-christ.
I bet you'd be right gleeful if I burned in hell, wouldn't you?
No i would not. I would not even wish it on hitler or pol pot.
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
define TRUE and False xian for us would you..
I have done it many times in here. Hey i just did it above in my last post. What is blocking your perception from reading it?
All Praise The Ancient Of Days
Adstar Who said i was protestant?
Dissing Catholics almost always shows a protestant. So what are you? Orthodox? Coptic? You don't sound Rasta. Neo Gnostic?
Your writing sure looks protestant, but you get points for knowing about Luther.
Adstar Nope. One who believes Jesus is a True Christian.
So are you saying that the Catholic, Orthodox, protestant, Coptic, Rasta, Universalist, Mormons don't believe Jesus?
“From the Eucharist and the prayer they hold aloof, because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ.” St Ignatius of Antioch, Letter to the Smyrnaeans, 7. (Ignatious of Antioch was a direct disciple of John, handpicked to be the bishop of his city.)
”
Adstar Declared a saint by the catholic church. When all those who believe Jesus are Saints. I do not trust in the recorded history that is in rebellion against the truth.
The catholics make all kinds of people saints, they even made the Buddha a saint. So what?
Ignatious significantly precedes the organization of the early church into the catholic church and he was taught and approved of by the Apostle John, but that's not good enough for you? Are you dissing the Apostle John? I mean he was supposedly there, wrote a gosple and would seem like some one who would know about this sort of thing.
What possible reason could you bring forth for saying Ignatious is wrong?
Adstar justin was and is wrong.
Wow, just like that. Harsh man.
Adstar To quote your hypocritical self
Hey its the xtian story. I'm not making this stuff up. What did you think was in the holy grail?
Adstar You know only what you desire to know to justify your attack upon the Love of the truth. But your attack is not justified and never will be.
I see no love of truth in you. I see only iron clad dogma and a fear of the truth.
Adstar Well it isn't going to work anti-christ.
My, my! You are so quick with the insults. This ritual cannibalism seems to be shortening your temper.
Adstar No i would not. I would not even wish it on hitler or pol pot.
Yet you call me anti christ? Who is the hypocrite?
rjr6 Sorry for getting a little morbid.
Its not your fault. Any one who tries to make sense of the actual stories ends up in sick and twisted land. Bible god, even JC, is a pretty disturbed individual. That's why the vast majority of people who read the bible for comprehension end up non xtians.
rjr6 It was only intened to describe what Jesus sacrificed for humans by becoming one of us.
Are you saying god is such a shoddy craftsman that being human is some big sacrifice? I thought we were his great master piece?
I'm still not that impressed with the whole JC sacrifice bit. Compared with what many go through JC got off easy. Part of a day of light torture and the he is barely up on the cross and he kicks off? Please! This is supposed to be the great sacrifice?
Go by amnesty international and read some real stories of torture and sacrifice. Years of crippling torture. Friends and family dismembered and killed. Deaths that drag on and on. Shoot there are diseases that are worse than what JC got, cluster headaches for example.
And what kind of "sacrifice" are we really talking about any way. Its not like anything happens to god he doesn't actually want to happen (which really makes it kind of masochistic). So he didn't really die for any sins, he just lost his shirt that he made to loose any way. It all seems like a cheap setup. Like he's mocking us.
I definitely spoke beyond my understanding.
scorpius
10-15-08, 09:58 PM
scorpius define TRUE and FALSE Christian
True xtian = the xtian talking and possibly xtians of almost exactly the same beliefs
False xtian = all other xtians
IOW all who feel they are xians think they are,huh?
it aint so easy:
unless you can cast out demons ,drink poison without being harmed,give all you posesions to the poor, heal the sick handle serpents and so on
http://www.paganlibrary.com/fundies/test_those_christians.php
seems like there are no True xians,eh :p
It truly is difficult to fathom who is a true xtian.
Perhaps the all are from Hitler on up to the pope.
Perhaps none are.
Maybe the term "true xtian" has no intelligible meaning.
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