calculated to kill!

[Michael]

Ever notice how many religions have this clause whereby, if you question the beleif *poof* suddenly you are in danger (usually of going to hell). Just the act of "thinking" the forbidden thought "Hey, you know, this is all bullshit" and wham - to hell with you. People are so scared of hell they can not even admit they might be wrong. Even this could endanger their mortal soul, best to not even think about it.

Can any of you remember reading any specific text where it say NOT to question that there is a God? Or that questioning this beleif is bad?

I remember my Baptist friends' sister just started repeating bla bla bla bla bla and ran from the room (true story) because she suddenly started getting worried she was going to question her faith. She was scared to even think anything new that might lead to her losing her beleif. Best to remain ignorant.

There's one (or many) monotheist on these boards who can not admit even the possibility could exit there is no God. Not even the possibility can exist, so much for the reality.

Anyway, I came across this about Scientology:


Xenu, according to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, was the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of his people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Scientology holds that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.

These events are known within Scientology as "Incident II", and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire.

The story of Xenu is part of Scientologist teachings about extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by Hubbard. Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, warning that this material was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it."


Now, it may seem funny to us, actually, it's sad. Scientologists really are worried that even thinking too much about the Xenu Space Opera can cause you to DIE. Well, it's really no different with monotheists if you think about it. They're JUST as scared.


Here Watch: In Xianity there is the concept of the eternal SIN. It is UNFORGIVABLE. Blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost.

Do it.


Deny the Holy Spirit.



For me, I can easily, I deny the Holy Spirit. THAT my friends, sent one hell of a shiver up the back of many a Xian. Some are, right now, thinking, poor poor fool.


Now, back to Xenu: I question the Xenu Space Opera. IMO it's bullshit.


Yup, still not worried one bit.

Funny that,
Michael

[Norsefire]

I believe everyone should question their faith and should question the authority

That doesn't mean go against it, but analyze and question it

[nietzschefan]

That is amazing. Where did Hubbard get this shit from?

There *is* an actual hypothesis that earth is a "Farm". An experiment like mice in a maze. It sure would help us justify some of the crap we've done to each other.

[Norsefire]

That actually makes sense, nietzschefan


Michael, if I may ask, what is the logic behind Hubbard's conclusions? I understand the logic behind suggesting intelligence, but this goes too far.

[Michael]

I'm thinking more of the fear, I mean, would anyone here really truly FEAR to thinking about the Xenu Space Opera?

Not one bit. No way. It's just silly to even think that thinking about the Xenu story is going to bring harm to your body in some way. It's not going to happen. I think we can all agree to that.


BUT, when it comes to our own beliefs... well now, that's all together different.


I just can not imagine living in a world where I would fear to think. It's really child abuse to teach a child this fear - if you think about it.


Perhaps 2000 years ago, yeah, people were uncivilized barbarians, yeah, they probably needed the fear to rule them, but, not now.



Xenu Space Opera anyone?

[Betrayer0fHope]

That is amazing. Where did Hubbard get this shit from?

There *is* an actual hypothesis that earth is a "Farm". An experiment like mice in a maze. It sure would help us justify some of the crap we've done to each other.

There's gotta be those who know it. So what positions are they in? Posting anonymously about the internet? Teaching college courses? Physicists? High ranking government officials?

[Michael]

What is the logic behind Hubbard's conclusions? I have no idea Norsefire. Probably very little.

[lightgigantic]

I'm thinking more of the fear, I mean, would anyone here really truly FEAR to thinking about the Xenu Space Opera?

Not one bit. No way. It's just silly to even think that thinking about the Xenu story is going to bring harm to your body in some way. It's not going to happen. I think we can all agree to that.


BUT, when it comes to our own beliefs... well now, that's all together different.


I just can not imagine living in a world where I would fear to think. It's really child abuse to teach a child this fear - if you think about it.


Perhaps 2000 years ago, yeah, people were uncivilized barbarians, yeah, they probably needed the fear to rule them, but, not now.



Xenu Space Opera anyone?

hence fear of god is not indicated as perfectional - in fact it is simply the default position of persons who remain caught up in sinful reactions

B 18.66 Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.

[Norsefire]

I have no idea Norsefire. Probably very little.

More like none. It also doesn't help that Hubbard was a sci-fi writer.

[S.A.M.]

I'm thinking more of the fear, I mean, would anyone here really truly FEAR to thinking about the Xenu Space Opera?

Not one bit. No way. It's just silly to even think that thinking about the Xenu story is going to bring harm to your body in some way. It's not going to happen. I think we can all agree to that.


BUT, when it comes to our own beliefs... well now, that's all together different.


I just can not imagine living in a world where I would fear to think. It's really child abuse to teach a child this fear - if you think about it.


Perhaps 2000 years ago, yeah, people were uncivilized barbarians, yeah, they probably needed the fear to rule them, but, not now.



Xenu Space Opera anyone?


IOW, people react to their own beliefs, but not to those of other people. Wow, thats some epiphany. :D

[Michael]

Poor poor fool :(



Let me guess, these are also your friends.OH SAM, just tell me your ideas on the Xenu Space Opera.


Why do you suppose Ron Hubbard wrote that people should not think to hard about it.... or they could be in danger of dieing.

Why would he write that?

[Norsefire]

Kind of like the classic "If I'm lying, may God strike me down now"

They know it won't happen but they use it to their advantage

[S.A.M.]

Dunno, I don't think about it at all. Much like I have no interest in atheism.

[Michael]

IOW, people react to their own beliefs, but not to those of other people. Wow, thats some epiphany. :DHaaa!

The point is to see the Xenu Space Opera, then ... stop ... think ... stop again ... think somemore .. see one's own beleif ... think about the space opera .. think about the similarities.


*!epiphany!*


HEY, Ron Hubbard was just copying what all the other religions have done! Which means .. which means ... maybe, just maybe.... .... .....

[S.A.M.]

That atheists have nothing to say and keep digging into religions for lack of anything to think about?

[Michael]

Dunno, I don't think about it at all. Much like I have no interest in atheism.for having such little interest in atheism - you sure talk about it a lot ;)

[Michael]

That atheists have nothing to say and keep digging into religions for lack of anything to think about?Come ON!

[nietzschefan]

Don't worry the population of the world is just too large for people to be dominated by religion. Even Islam I think is loosing it's grip, people are becoming slaves to something much more subtle and weaker in actual power, but with a lot longer range(like say gravity). Globalism, economic globalism. Obedience tied to being able to "trade" to be able to complete for the scarcity of resources. Religion has fuck all to do with that now. If you are not bondable, have a criminal record, etc in about 5-10 years, you will be completely fucked beyond all hope. That's when we are gonna see the really heavy laws get passed, that will give us the inquisition part deux.

[S.A.M.]

Sure, like I talk about George Bush/Americans a lot, one has to watch out for the nuts.

[Norsefire]

Nietzschefan I wouldn't mind if we reject religion as long as we replace it with something more powerful. The world is in need of strong leaders and most people are too stupid to think for themselves, so people like us, need to do it for them.

[S.A.M.]

Don't worry the population of the world is just too large for people to be dominated by religion. Even Islam I think is loosing it's grip, people are becoming slaves to something much more subtle and weaker in actual power, but with a lot longer range(like say gravity). Globalism, economic globalism. Obedience tied to being able to "trade" to be able to complete for the scarcity of resources. Religion has fuck all to do with that now. If you are not bondable, have a criminal record, etc in about 5-10 years, you will be completely fucked beyond all hope. That's when we are gonna see the really heavy laws get passed, that will give us the inquisition part deux.

Yeah, the real demons are waiting to be unleashed. And that will be something that will make even atheists shiver with fear.

[Michael]

hence fear of god is not indicated as perfectional - in fact it is simply the default position of persons who remain caught up in sinful reactions

B 18.66 Abandon all varieties of religion and just surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reactions. Do not fear.OMG lightgigantic, you are too cryptic, probably necessarily so, and in that way, it's too bad you weren't a humanist. There's nothing wrong with causing people think deeply, but why take people to the supernatural when there's so many natural things that are super :)

[Norsefire]

OMG lightgigantic, you are too cryptic, probably necessarily so, and in that way, it's too bad you weren't a humanist. There's nothing wrong with causing people think deeply, but why take people to the supernatural when there's so many natural things that are super :)

Like Humanity

[Michael]

Yeah, the real demons are waiting to be unleashed. And that will be something that will make even atheists shiver with fear.who knows, maybe it can bring us together?


Anyway, I'm buying 5 fishing poles, a small boat - screw the world!


Hey babe, I'll trade ya some fresh fish for a blow... hehe... just kidding!


Anyway, back to the thread topic.


EVEN IF you are a theist - could you post a similar reference in your own beleif? Something that you can not or will not do for fear of offending, disappointing, or down right pissing off, God.

[Michael]

Like Humanity
exactly :)


but .. also ... the whole biosphere and humanities place in it!

[lightgigantic]

OMG lightgigantic, you are too cryptic, probably necessarily so, and in that way, it's too bad you weren't a humanist. There's nothing wrong with causing people think deeply, but why take people to the supernatural when there's so many natural things that are super :)
if you had only ever dined on cold pizza you would probably think it was pretty far out, even in the association of people who had eaten hot pizza

[Norsefire]

Humanity is the epitomy of all life and Earth is the purest of any planet

How about that for religious claims?;)

[lightgigantic]

Humanity is the epitomy of all life and Earth is the purest of any planet

How about that for religious claims?;)
fine
if you want to give an argument that atheists can philosophically enter through with a front end loader ....

[Michael]

Firstly, stop derailing the OP topic :)
Secondly, it's difficult to have a "serious" conversation with someone who believes in Xenu the Alien Overlord and refuses to even acknowledge that even the possibility could exit that Xenu doesn't exist.
Thirdly, there is no such thing as race.
Fourthly, returning to the topic at hand.

I wonder, why, do you suppose, Ron Hubbard wrote this material (Xenu Space Opera) was "calculated to kill anyone who attempts to solve it."

Why write such a thing? Especially given that Scientology the word means “the study of knowledge” it just seems so paradoxical? I just don't understand it??? It ...well ... it, almost reminds me of the all forgiving all loving God who sends humans to burn in hell fire for eternity.... ... hmmm wait a minute.... :bugeye:



;)

[Michael]

Surely everyone sees the striking and obvious similarity here?

[Adstar]

Ever notice how many religions have this clause whereby, if you question the beleif *poof* suddenly you are in danger (usually of going to hell). Just the act of "thinking" the forbidden thought "Hey, you know, this is all bullshit" and wham - to hell with you. People are so scared of hell they can not even admit they might be wrong. Even this could endanger their mortal soul, best to not even think about it.

Can any of you remember reading any specific text where it say NOT to question that there is a God? Or that questioning this beleif is bad?

I remember my Baptist friends' sister just started repeating bla bla bla bla bla and ran from the room (true story) because she suddenly started getting worried she was going to question her faith. She was scared to even think anything new that might lead to her losing her beleif. Best to remain ignorant.

There's one (or many) monotheist on these boards who can not admit even the possibility could exit there is no God. Not even the possibility can exist, so much for the reality.

Anyway, I came across this about Scientology:


Xenu, according to Scientology founder L. Ron Hubbard, was the dictator of the "Galactic Confederacy" who, 75 million years ago, brought billions of his people to Earth in DC-8-like spacecraft, stacked them around volcanoes and killed them using hydrogen bombs. Scientology holds that the essences of these many people remained, and that they form around people in modern times, causing them spiritual harm.

These events are known within Scientology as "Incident II", and the traumatic memories associated with them as The Wall of Fire.

The story of Xenu is part of Scientologist teachings about extraterrestrial civilizations and alien interventions in Earthly events, collectively described as space opera by Hubbard. Hubbard detailed the story in Operating Thetan level III (OT III) in 1967, warning that this material was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it."


Now, it may seem funny to us, actually, it's sad. Scientologists really are worried that even thinking too much about the Xenu Space Opera can cause you to DIE. Well, it's really no different with monotheists if you think about it. They're JUST as scared.


Here Watch: In Xianity there is the concept of the eternal SIN. It is UNFORGIVABLE. Blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost.

Do it.


Deny the Holy Spirit.



For me, I can easily, I deny the Holy Spirit. THAT my friends, sent one hell of a shiver up the back of many a Xian. Some are, right now, thinking, poor poor fool.


Now, back to Xenu: I question the Xenu Space Opera. IMO it's bullshit.


Yup, still not worried one bit.

Funny that,
Michael

You don’t even know what Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.

You think disbelief and denying the existence of the Holy Spirit is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit when it is not.

One has to believe in God and demons to be capable of blaspheming the Holy Spirit as it is revealed in the scriptures.

Why are you so incapable of understanding basic scriptures?

Funny that.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Michael]

You don’t even know what Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is.

You think disbelief and denying the existence of the Holy Spirit is Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit when it is not.

One has to believe in God and demons to be capable of blaspheming the Holy Spirit as it is revealed in the scriptures.

Why are you so incapable of understanding basic scriptures?

Funny that.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

Fair enough comment.

But, my point wasn't so much as to be about being balasphemous and more about the fear of being balasphemous. Which in turn can even mean the fear of thinking.

Why is it, do you suppose Adstar, that R Hubbard wrote: warning that this material was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it."


I can only think of two reasons:
1) He truly believed that if you thought about Xenu Space Opera you could screw up your thetan level, ow whichever, and become sick.
OR
2) By thinking about it a bit, you might actually come to the conclusion it's all made up.


Now, that isn't to say religion and fear didn't have it's time and place, but, now-a-days, in the civilized societies (both East and West) the fear part of religion really isn't needed for most people.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Yeah, the real demons are waiting to be unleashed. And that will be something that will make even atheists shiver with fear.

In our foxholes?

I happen to agree, I hate atheists who act all superior and mock peoples' beliefs. I mean, at least show respect.

Respect cruel & absurd makebelieve? Then I couldn't respect myself.


Why are you so incapable of understanding basic scriptures?

You don't understand. So you condemn.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

No.

[S.A.M.]

Firstly, stop derailing the OP topic :)
Secondly, it's difficult to have a "serious" conversation with someone who believes in Xenu the Alien Overlord and refuses to even acknowledge that even the possibility could exit that Xenu doesn't exist.
;)

Why? What " serous conversation" do you want to have with them ?

[greenberg]

Why do you suppose Ron Hubbard wrote that people should not think to hard about it.... or they could be in danger of dieing.

Why would he write that?

Any religion, worldview, philosophy or however it is to be called

needs to be (presented as) a matter of life and death

if it is to have real potential to be acted upon consistently.


Anything that is less than a matter of life and death has poor chances of being acted upon consistently.

[greenberg]

Now, that isn't to say religion and fear didn't have it's time and place, but, now-a-days, in the civilized societies (both East and West) the fear part of religion really isn't needed for most people.

Riiight. People should not fear pollution, the crash of the economy, no, they should just fearlessly continue in their usual civilized ways ...

[greenberg]

But, my point wasn't so much as to be about being balasphemous and more about the fear of being balasphemous. Which in turn can even mean the fear of thinking.

As if thinking would be such a good thing.

Most of our thinking is really just regurgitations of old vomit. Makes one wonder why anyone would be infatuated with thinking.

[Simon Anders]

Can any of you remember reading any specific text where it say NOT to question that there is a God? Or that questioning this beleif is bad? I do not think it is in the Bible, but I am not a scholar. Because of coming from a family that was either Christian or christian-atheist - ie. an atheist position primarily formed in reaction to the God of the Bible and the Christian church - I always found it a relief when in other religions or in the struggles of certain mystics doubting the existence of God and even getting pissed off at God were seen as normal, par for the course and unavoidable. There was one guru in India - I cannot remember his name - who would get very angry when one of his disciples died. He was not the sort to talk a lot but he spoke passionately on these occasions and one raised his fist to the heavens.
I came in contact with another guru there who said that what your relationship with God is is not important, only that you have a relationship. If you doubt God exists, tell God that.

(by the way, I am not putting forward their reactions or ideas as 'the truth'. I just think they are related to your OP and perhaps interesting.)

I also noted in certain Hasidic teaching stories that supposedly holy men had rather brusque and not very Christian talks with God on occasion. I also found this freeing somehow.

In the writings of mystics you find dark nights of the soul, often, and other periods where one goes through profound doubt. This is not taken as bad.

I think the Christians - and other religious people - who have this zero tolerance attitude are deeply afraid of their own natures. They see the slightest bit of doubt or questioning as the start of a slippery slope.

Poor them, stuck in a very tight box.

Since one can only manage this is a good dollop of denial, it must be like wearing blinders.

[Adstar]

Fair enough comment.

But, my point wasn't so much as to be about being balasphemous and more about the fear of being balasphemous. Which in turn can even mean the fear of thinking.

Why is it, do you suppose Adstar, that R Hubbard wrote: warning that this material was "calculated to kill (by pneumonia etc) anyone who attempts to solve it."


I can only think of two reasons:
1) He truly believed that if you thought about Xenu Space Opera you could screw up your thetan level, ow whichever, and become sick.
OR
2) By thinking about it a bit, you might actually come to the conclusion it's all made up.

Why would i care for what R Hubbard wrote ?



Now, that isn't to say religion and fear didn't have it's time and place, but, now-a-days, in the civilized societies (both East and West) the fear part of religion really isn't needed for most people.

Fear is an important thing because it is a great motivator to prompt people to seek. Why would anyone study and investigate volcanoes if volcanoes never had explosive and disastrous eruptions? I suppose some would study volcanoes but not with the same urgency that life and death outcomes motivate many researchers today.


fear is a beggining:
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.

Fear of the Lord leads to that fear being removed by discovering the Love of the Lord. Most would not not seek without an element of fear to motivate them.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Why would i care for what R Hubbard wrote ?

Why would I care what superstitious primitives wrote?

Fear is an important thing because it is a great motivator to prompt people to seek. Why would anyone study and investigate volcanoes if volcanoes never had explosive and disastrous eruptions? I suppose some would study volcanoes but not with the same urgency that life and death outcomes motivate many researchers today.

Ignorant raving. If volcanos never hurt anyone, we'd study them as much. Sometimes I think we don't study dangerous things enough.
The vast majority of science is not about that.

fear is a beggining:
Proverbs 1:7The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Fear of the Lord leads to that fear being removed by discovering the Love of the Lord. Most would not not seek without an element of fear to motivate them.
1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.


You're contradicting yourself.

[Simon Anders]

Fear is an important thing because it is a great motivator to prompt people to seek.Often to seek beyond old images of God that are abusive.

Why would anyone study and investigate volcanoes if volcanoes never had explosive and disastrous eruptions? I suppose some would study volcanoes but not with the same urgency that life and death outcomes motivate many researchers today.This shows a great naivte about motivations. Of course people would investigate volcanos and with as much interest. What you believe in is an old form of pedagogy, where the teachers scared the students because they so distrusted their interest in the world. They never noticed the self-fulfilling prophecy that resulted.


fear is a beggining:
Proverbs 1:7
The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Fear is a good thing to notice. There can be much insight in it. There is, however, no need for God to be scary, there is quite enough frightening otherwise.

Fear of the Lord leads to that fear being removed by discovering the Love of the Lord. Most would not not seek without an element of fear to motivate them.Speak for yourself.

1 John 4:18
There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. But he who fears has not been made perfect in love.
Which leads to a muddle given your other thoughts. Here believers are encouraged to be afraid of their fear as unloving.

[swarm]

Adstar: Why would anyone study and investigate volcanoes if volcanoes never had explosive and disastrous eruptions?

You mean like they study frogs or tulips?

[Michael]

Why would anyone study and investigate volcanoes if volcanoes never had explosive and disastrous eruptions?Like love, orgasm, bees, space,


Yeah, I wonder why Pythagoras studied the science of music?


In short, theistic people are so motivated by their own fear of Sky Daddy they don't realize that many of us are motivated to study things simply for enjoyment.

[swarm]

Michael many of us are motivated to study things simply for enjoyment.

Yay! Enjoyment based living!

Send the fear mongers packing.

[Adstar]

Often to seek beyond old images of God that are abusive.

Images that they wish to interpret as abusive.

But are in fact an image of uncompromising absolute Justice. The images of the serious consequences of sin.



This shows a great naivte about motivations. Of course people would investigate volcanos and with as much interest.

No they would not and No not in the numbers and with the monetary backing the have today. As Necessity is the mother of invention, fear of God is an emotion that is the mother of serious and dedicated seeking.



Fear is a good thing to notice. There can be much insight in it. There is, however, no need for God to be scary, there is quite enough frightening otherwise.

Oh there is reason for God to be scary to those who have rejected the Love of His truth. Reason to be in absolute terror of God actually.




Speak for yourself.

I never said All did i? I said Most. You move my words to the extreme to justify your false observation.



Which leads to a muddle given your other thoughts. Here believers are encouraged to be afraid of their fear as unloving.

If they truly believe Jesus then all fear is removed. :) That’s the thing that those who are blinded cannot see. They see the two quoted verses and they see it as contradiction or confusion. When in fact it tells a story of the progression of revelation.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[swarm]

Adstar Oh there is reason for God to be scary to those who have rejected the Love of His truth. Reason to be in absolute terror of God actually.

Only if your god is evil.

[Adstar]

Like love, orgasm, bees, space,


Yeah, I wonder why Pythagoras studied the science of music?


Why do you selectively take out words that i say and disregard the rest? Like the others have done. Those who cannot see the "Most" and you who cannot see the bolded part in my quote:



Fear is an important thing because it is a great motivator to prompt people to seek. Why would anyone study and investigate volcanoes if volcanoes never had explosive and disastrous eruptions? "I suppose some would study volcanoes "but not with the same urgency that life and death outcomes motivate many researchers today.

You and swarm saw the first part and saw an opening for attack. But you seem to think that i cannot quote myself and clearly show your attack to be based on a blatant disregard for the entire message that i put down. It's like the anti-christs in here who quote a verse in the bible in isolation in an attempt to condemn the God of Abraham. Do they think they can get away with distortion when others can read the scriptures in context?



In short, theistic people are so motivated by their own fear of Sky Daddy they don't realize that many of us are motivated to study things simply for enjoyment.

Once again i have no fear of God. i am loved by God and because He loved me first i love Him. True Christians do now dwell on the lake of fire.

It may seem that i do. But the people who dwell upon it in here and bring it up again and again and again are the anti-christs. Once it becomes a topic or is injected into a topic i will stand by it, because it is a revealed reality in the scriptures and no amount of argument about it's justification will remove it.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Images that they wish to interpret as abusive.
But are in fact an image of uncompromising absolute Justice. The images of the serious consequences of sin.
No they would not and No not in the numbers and with the monetary backing the have today. As Necessity is the mother of invention, fear of God is an emotion that is the mother of serious and dedicated seeking.
Oh there is reason for God to be scary to those who have rejected the Love of His truth. Reason to be in absolute terror of God actually.
I never said All did i? I said Most. You move my words to the extreme to justify your false observation.
If they truly believe Jesus then all fear is removed. :) That’s the thing that those who are blinded cannot see. They see the two quoted verses and they see it as contradiction or confusion. When in fact it tells a story of the progression of revelation.

Necessity is A mother of invention not THE mother of all invention, obviously. Fear is the root of evil. A wise omniscient, benevolent, omnipotent god would have no need for fear. This is 1 of the many absurdities of The Holy Babble. I can't be afraid of something I don't know exists. I won't be afraid of gods if I find they exist.
No matter what you say or how many times you say it or how you think your words have been twisted, the vast majority of science is not done for safety.

Do you or do you not preach to animals?

[Leo Volont]

Okay... I call your bluff... How many religions do what you say they do.

It is tiresome with Atheists. The Religious People have to prove everything, but the Atheists are allowed to get by with the vaguest of generalities in regards to accusations.

Are you accusing Religions of anything that ever REALLY happened, or are you just referring to the Legends and Myths of Atheist Propaganda?

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Okay... I call your bluff... How many religions do what you say they do.

It is tiresome with Atheists. The Religious People have to prove everything, but the Atheists are allowed to get by with the vaguest of generalities in regards to accusations.

Are you accusing Religions of anything that ever REALLY happened, or are you just referring to the Legends and Myths of Atheist Propaganda?

Desperate absurd foaming at the mouth.

[swarm]

Leo Volont The Religious People have to prove everything

You make the god claim, you get the burden of proof.

If you actually know something about god, prove it. Bitching about nasty atheists is not proof of god.

[Carico]

Ever notice how many religions have this clause whereby, if you question the beleif *poof* suddenly you are in danger (usually of going to hell). Just the act of "thinking" the forbidden thought "Hey, you know, this is all bullshit" and wham - to hell with you. People are so scared of hell they can not even admit they might be wrong. Even this could endanger their mortal soul, best to not even think about it.

That doesn't describe Christianity in the least. All people were unbelievers before they became believers. So your statement doesn't apply to Christianity.

Can you admit you're wrong? Can you admit that you have to make up your own history to deny the life and deeds of Christ? So why do you go to that extreme to keep from admitting you could be wrong? :eek: Pride, perhaps? Is your pride worth the price of hell? If so, then God will give you your wish. If not, then it would be wise for you to see that you're not omniscient enough to make up your own history or determine what happens after you die. Sorry. ;)

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Can you admit you preach to animals?

[Adstar]

Adstar Oh there is reason for God to be scary to those who have rejected the Love of His truth. Reason to be in absolute terror of God actually.

Only if your god is evil.

If God does not exist then He cannot be either good or evil. You cannot disprove the existence of God by declaring Him evil. All you do is show your judgement concerning the will of God.

People think they can disprove God by simply disagreeing with His revealed will. How absurd. Can i prove that Pol Pot never existed just because i disagree with his policies? Of course not.

But i see it all the time in here.

“God is bad so that proves that God must not exist.” Weird.

If God exists and If His will has been revealed by the Bible then your opinion and ranting and raving against it will make not one jot of difference. God is God He has absolute Authority and no one will have eternity in His presence without Him granting it to them.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Your ranting & raving doesn't make a difference as to whether gods exist.
No 1 has absolute authority over me.
I certainly don't want to spend eternity in the presence of the christian god. That seems like hell to me.

[swarm]

Adstar If God does not exist then He cannot be either good or evil.

We are discussing you conception of god. You have yet to demonstrate the least knowledge of any actual gods.

The only reason "for God to be scary to those who have rejected" him is if he is evil.

[Michael]

Calculated to Kill!!!

Sounds like a cool Alfred Hitchcock movie doesn't it? The sad thing this was really a warning by Ron Hubbard against his fellow Scientologists NOT to think too deeply about the bullshit *ahem* I mean "religion" because they might die!!!

Haaa!!! How stupid do people have to be? I mean, WTF? Don't think?

DON'T THINK???

It's just ludicrous. Yet, here we have Scientologists worried that thinking to much about their beleif my cause them to die? No No NO... just drink the Kool Aid and all will be well in the world.

Not only this, but I know of many monotheist, many (actually maybe all) who worry that questioning the bullshit *ahem* their "religion" will piss off the Sky Daddy and they might go to "hell".

Same Kool Aid different color... and it all tastes the same too. Sweet but leaving me thirsty after a full glass.


M

[Simon Anders]

Images that they wish to interpret as abusive.

But are in fact an image of uncompromising absolute Justice. The images of the serious consequences of sin. yes, even as earthly dicatators have their apologists old ideas about God create apologies for false images of God as a dictator.

No they would not and No not in the numbers and with the monetary backing the have today. As Necessity is the mother of invention, fear of God is an emotion that is the mother of serious and dedicated seeking.
This is simply not correct, as the people mentioning tulips and other things passionately investigated by scientists and others has shown. You are perhaps motivated by fear primarily and therefore think that a scary good is a good idea.

Oh there is reason for God to be scary to those who have rejected the Love of His truth. Reason to be in absolute terror of God actually. I can only assume that you needed to be scared into the beliefs you have.

I never said All did i? I said Most. You move my words to the extreme to justify your false observation.
Be honest: I never said 'all'.
You said 'most'. I said speak for yourself. My response fits, perfectly, what you said. Your response above, does not fit mine.
I think even you have the awareness to see you basically lied here but saying I did something I did not do.
'Most', Adstar, is clearly talking about VASTLY more people than just you. Thus my response is not misleading. You generalized. I admonished you for it. If you think it is fine to generalize, that is another issue, but your accusation, and added analysis of me, is disingenous.

[Adstar]

No 1 has absolute authority over me.

Pride comes before destruction.

I certainly don't want to spend eternity in the presence of the christian god. That seems like hell to me.

Your wish may well be granted, woe is to you.


All Praise The Ancient of Days

[Adstar]

The only reason "for God to be scary to those who have rejected" him is if he is evil.

Nope.

A criminal fears a judge for the sentence that judge has the power to deliver. Especially when the penalty is extreme.

Many criminals facing the possibility of a death sentence will fear the judge they face without thinking that the judge is evil.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
No 1 has absolute authority over me.

Pride comes before destruction.

No pride just fact.

Originally Posted by StrangerInAStrangeLa
I certainly don't want to spend eternity in the presence of the christian god. That seems like hell to me.

Your wish may well be granted, woe is to you.

No, woe to me if I have to spend eternity in the presence of your god.

[Adstar]

Calculated to Kill!!!

Sounds like a cool Alfred Hitchcock movie doesn't it? The sad thing this was really a warning by Ron Hubbard against his fellow Scientologists NOT to think too deeply about the bullshit *ahem* I mean "religion" because they might die!!!

Haaa!!! How stupid do people have to be? I mean, WTF? Don't think?

DON'T THINK???

It's just ludicrous. Yet, here we have Scientologists worried that thinking to much about their beleif my cause them to die? No No NO... just drink the Kool Aid and all will be well in the world.

Not only this, but I know of many monotheist, many (actually maybe all) who worry that questioning the bullshit *ahem* their "religion" will piss off the Sky Daddy and they might go to "hell".

Same Kool Aid different color... and it all tastes the same too. Sweet but leaving me thirsty after a full glass.


M

Questioning God is ok. I have done it a lot. But God can see the motivations of each person. Do they question with a spirit of seeking to understand more while still trusting that God knows best and knows best what to reveal and when to reveal it to the seeker. Or is the person not asking questions at all but indeed making accusations and criticisms against God to justify their rebellion against Him.

Your own words reveal to us your motivations

questioning the bullshit *ahem* their "religion"

You have already made up your mind about God. You have not come to ask questions to gain understanding, you are not a genuine seeker. Your in rebellion and your questions are not designed to bring knowledge but to undermine the message of God.

But all such attacks are in vain, His will shall be done. And no about of venom (no matter how eloquently delivered) will change that.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

You have made up your mind about gods. You are not a seeker. You do not want knowledge or understanding, you want to pretend you have them.
He's asked plenty of questions, you haven't.
It's your Holy Babble that's venomous.
Are you ashamed of preaching to animals?