Egalitarianism?

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Norsefire, Oct 1, 2008.

  1. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    How can we have an egalitarian nation when people aren't equal?

    Not economic inequalities; after all, those will always exist in a free enterprise system.
    I believe that there are really two major problems in how we treat human society; firstly, our concept of "government" and "the common people"
    It is this: we have a nation, that has people; the government does whatever it is supposed to do, the common people get on with their lives
    We need to abolish both of these ideas. They pointlessly create inequalities, a lack of standards, and are simply inefficient.
    Another problem is our concept of "all men are equal and free"

    I do support liberty. I really do. However, I do not believe that all people are necessarily entitled to the same amount of liberty, nor that we should not have authority.

    However, there is also a major problem with typical authoritarian nations: power never shifts. This is due to the "government and common people" view, in which you have the government, and everyone else, so the power just stays with the government and is usually abused.


    Class division is most certainly necessary; however, not classes formed by economic status, but rather merit.
    I believe that we should rethink "government" as an elite. This elite would form the highest spot in the hierarchy. They would not govern; they'd be free individuals living their lives. They would serve themselves.

    Different areas and divisions can be owned by different elite groups, that own that land and can establish society's guidelines and goals. The people below would be people to be commanded, and would serve as a workforce.

    The "workforce" would not be slaves, of course; they'd be as common people are today. However they would, in the end, serve to meet the ends of the elite. Their human rights would be protected and they'd live normal, happy lives; however, instead of working for themselves, they'd work for the elite.

    Now here is what separates this from simply a tyranny: everyone would have the opportunity to join this intellectual elite, if they meet the qualifications and have enough "merit"; they'd be given power and status by the others according to their deeds and performance

    I believe that everyone should have equal opportunity; however, I do not believe that means everyone is entitled to equal treatment. It depends on what they do with that opportunity that they are given.
    The "common people" would all, and should all, be given the opportunity to join the elite. Nobody should be born into the elite, because that would be unfair. The elite should be a status that you actually have to achieve; there could be established schools and the sort where you could go to learn the ways of this "elite", if you want to, and also depending on your social merit

    The "nation" would be run by the wishes of the elite; after all, they come first. However, because everyone is provided the opportunity to join this elite, it is not unfair, as they are welcome to join if they work hard and qualify.

    One major benefit of this is that this, immediately, establishes a goal for absolutely everyone: join the elite. If they don't want to, that's just fine; after all, the elite is made up of the willing and the strong. The unwilling could remain "common" and never achieve anything if they want, that's what makes them weak: lack of will.

    We could have a third class, something like "prospective"; one who isn't part of the elite, but isn't "common" either, and could be given charge, on behalf of the elite, to carry out their will in order to eventually make it in. Not one person given charge, but the group of the prospectives

    People could work to improve themselves to join this elite, and then be given the opportunity to, after becoming a part of this elite, follow their own dreams and will.


    There are several problems we must solve:

    1] Who decides the standards and qualifications for the elite?
    2] Who gets to accept or deny someone into the elite?
    3] If no one can be born into the elite, how do we determine who is in the elite in the beginning so that the system can work?
    4] How do we make sure the elite don't deny people unfairly?

    And generally that sort of thing; however I am sure there can be a fair way of doing this.



    As for the actual elite, there would be several groups, forming the one "elite"; the several groups would own separate land, and that land would belong to that respective group, of which it is their's and they can do as they please, serving their desires; (all desires served would be of the elite, giving more incentive to make it in), with limits only to protect Human rights and at least somewhat a quality of living for the "common people" and to protect the integrity of equal opportunity (i.e, to make sure the people always have the opportunity to make it in)


    The common people could remain a part of that class, living out normal lives; they could be given free economic choices as to their role in serving the elite (what career they want, etc) and just pretty much live normal lives

    Or

    They could try to make it into the elite


    What do you think of my idea?
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2008
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  3. Thoreau Valued Senior Member

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    Makes perfect sense to me.

    I'm sure there are loopholes somewhere, but from face value, I do not currently see how it would be a system bound to flop. Qualified people in qualified and fitting positions. A hell of a lot better than what he currently have; foundering idiots in positions of extreme power where they have no right being.
     
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  5. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Therefore the "nation" is run according to the wishes of the elite BUT everyone is able to make it into the elite and have their say

    So it's fair

    It'd be

    Elite​

    Subdivisions

    Territorial Elite

    Prospectives

    Common people
     
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  7. Thoreau Valued Senior Member

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    Agree'd. :thumbsup:


    High responsibility positions should be met by highly qualified individuals. Those who do not wish to put forth the effort in life to EARN what they get, deserve to be denied certain rights, resposibilities, positions, and social class. But those who do should be rewarded correspondently.
     
  8. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

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    As with all your ideas, you forget one thing.
    The human condition

    People like holding on to power.
    People like giving power to those that they like
    People like having the good life.
    People do not give that up easily

    What happens, when the elite does something at the expense of the common people?
     
  9. Thoreau Valued Senior Member

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    3,380
    I disagree...

    1. Power can be mandated and regulatedby the lower echilons to a point.

    2. Again

    3. Then it should be incentive to earn a good life.

    4. What exactly are you referring to?
     
  10. Roman Banned Banned

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    11,560
    We should restrict voting to rich, white males. They're the most elite demographic, so it stands to reason that they would make the best choices.

    I mean, when was the last time we had a Jefferson or Washington for president?
     
  11. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    Yes....

    Remember this isn't typical "government', the point IS to gain power and not be a subordinate of another.
    It's a competition for power, where only the most qualified are given power

    With protection to basic rights
    Sure. Although that one person doesn't stand for the entire elite
    That's the idea, that's the point of wanting to get into the elite
    Who is giving up? An elite position has to be earned; you have people above to be obeyed and people below to be commanded. Do your job right and you can rise.
    The common people serve the elite.....however because they are offered the chance to join the elite, it isn't unfair. It's up to them whether they want to remain subordinates or join the elite.

    The elite are the ones who would establish the goals and standards
     
  12. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    The point of this system is to root out the "weak" and the "strong", or the unwilling and the willing, respectively. The willing and able rule over the unwilling and unable

    The elite would be their own society that rules over the common society, the common society works for the elite society and the elite society provides the common society with the essentials and the opportunity to join


    And remember no body is BORN into the elite, it has to be earned.
     
  13. Norsefire Salam Shalom Salom Registered Senior Member

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    11,529
    Let me explain more clearly:

    There are two main classes of people: the elite and the common people.

    The elite status must be earned; all begin as common people for the sake of equal opportunity. Those that are competent, willing, and able, are granted elite status


    This elite rules over the common people; they establish the goals and standards for the common people. There are limits, however, for instance going against human rights, or denying them equal opportunity to join the elite

    The elite also have responsibilities, which is managing the common people to maintain their wellbeing

    However, the common people serve the elite. Their work output and capital goes to the elite and a small part goes to them to be distributed

    The elite, as I said, lead the common people, according to their own will; all can join the elite if they qualify and work for it

    Within the elite, they each rule over a different portion of the country, subsequently the authority becomes more localized in "lesser elite" groups and more centralized in "greater elite" groups

    The "elite of the elite" are the heads of state, basically



    Within the system, for the common people the work is distributed based on output and they are granted whatever utilities and that sort that they need to maintain a normal life (after the fair share for the elite is given)

    The ultimate goal of everyone is to become a member of the elite and rise in status, and their subordinates serve them, and they serve their superiors

    By "serve" I only mean, carry out the wishes, but they'd obviously be within reasonable limits

    And everyone has the opportunity to join the elite
     

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