View Full Version : We need religion
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:12 PM
As in, we need, or could really benefit from, what it is that a "religion" might offer, namely guidelines, common ground, and standards
Standards by which all people can seek to live up to, providing them with goals, and common goals leads to common grounds, which leads to unity; guidelines, providing a true necessary conformity for society, etc
Now, we don't require a religion that has belief in the supernatural or anything of the sort; it could be more of a philosophy-religion, namely something, as I've suggested, that praises, epitomizes, and worships the Human species
Why is that when you need something, I have to need it to?
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:18 PM
It is not ME or YOU, it is WE, as a society, if we want a healthy nation. Otherwise we lack cohesion.
We NEED guidance, goals, and WE NEED strict order. I want to see Humanity become gods, and this is not going to happen if we have idiots holding us back.
Btw, that's more of an ethic than a religion. Religion requires a sort of subservient, idiot faith. I can see why you find such a thing attractive- most closeted cock cravers do.
It is not ME or YOU, it is WE, as a society, if we want a healthy nation. Otherwise we lack cohesion.
We NEED guidance, goals, and WE NEED strict order. I want to see Humanity become gods, and this is not going to happen if we have idiots holding us back.
Society's composed of ME's and YOU's. It's best to let individuals choose for themselves. It's scientific fact.
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:22 PM
Society's composed of ME's and YOU's. It's best to let individuals choose for themselves. It's scientific fact.
If we have a society, how can we let invididuals "choose for themselves"? That is no society. That's a lack of society, because it is individualism. Individualism to that extent is dangerous and anti social. Society requires unity among individuals. And religion, especially one that worships Humanity, can pull this off.
spidergoat
09-28-08, 11:22 PM
We don't need to become Gods, just individuals. Humanity's greatest acheivements are accomplished by individual creativity.
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:23 PM
We don't need to become Gods, just individuals. Humanity's greatest acheivements are accomplished by individual creativity.
We don't need to be individualists; we need to all be unique, yes, but we also need something that we all live up to, that we all desire, that we all are united by. We need perfection.
Humanity can make no accomplishments when we still allow the ignorant and weakminded to live freely.
spidergoat
09-28-08, 11:26 PM
Just like it's the errors in copying that lead to the creativity of evolution, it's also the mutants, the strange, the non-conformist thinkers in society that provide it with new ideas. The only things we all have to do together is make sure there is enough to eat and we don't destroy the planet.
If we have a society, how can we let invididuals "choose for themselves"? That is no society. That's a lack of society, because it is individualism. Individualism to that extent is dangerous and anti social. Society requires unity among individuals. And religion, especially one that worships Humanity, can pull this off.
Not if I choose to interact with other people. Letting individuals choose what is the right amount of socialism is really the best way to do it.
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:28 PM
Just like it's the errors in copying that lead to the creativity of evolution, it's also the mutants, the strange, the non-conformist thinkers in society that provide it with new ideas. The only things we all have to do together is make sure there is enough to eat and we don't destroy the planet.
There's no culture there, no sense of loyalty and community.
We can have different lifestyles, ideas, etc, but as long as we are united and loyal to the same flag, same cause, same goal, and same society, this is what is necessary; and praising the perfection of Humanity, and creating dedication to its betterment, would be perfect.
I am somewhat annoyed even by some religious people that are against transhumanism and cloning. I fully support transhumanism and we could use cloning to build soldiers or workers.
We don't need to be individualists; we need to all be unique, yes, but we also need something that we all live up to, that we all desire, that we all are united by. We need perfection.
Humanity can make no accomplishments when we still allow the ignorant and weakminded to live freely.
Again, you might need that, but I don't see why you need to force it on me. It doesn't really make sense.
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:29 PM
Not if I choose to interact with other people. Letting individuals choose what is the right amount of socialism is really the best way to do it.
Ok, they can decide, but if they are in a certain society and disagree, they need to move.
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:30 PM
Again, you might need that, but I don't see why you need to force it on me. It doesn't really make sense.
Humanity needs this if we are to make progress, if we are to have stability, and if we are to have unity. If you do not desire these things, leave.
Ok, they can decide, but if they are in a certain society and disagree, they need to move.
Good luck keeping anyone in your society.
You know why Berlin had a wall right? I'll give you a hint- it wasn't to keep people out.
Humanity needs this if we are to make progress, if we are to have stability, and if we are to have unity. If you do not desire these things, leave.
You know why Texans want to put a wall up, right?
It's to keep people from coming to a country that was founded on the ideals of individual and personal liberty.
When people think like you do, you get stuff like 13th century Europe, or Mao, or Stalin. Just doesn't work.
Norsefire
09-28-08, 11:42 PM
Good luck keeping anyone in your society.
You know why Berlin had a wall right? I'll give you a hint- it wasn't to keep people out. We need Human unity. Do you disagree? We need direction, motivation, guidelines, and standards.
You know why Texans want to put a wall up, right?
It's to keep people from coming to a country that was founded on the ideals of individual and personal liberty.You know why Texans want to put a wall up, right?
It's to keep people from coming to a country that was founded on the ideals of individual and personal liberty.
And this same petty "liberty" is holding us back!
We do need freedom to enjoy life, I agree, but if we take it too far, we create greed and lack of cohesion, and we need these things to push Humanity forward.
When people think like you do, you get stuff like 13th century Europe, or Mao, or Stalin. Just doesn't work.
What are you, an anarchist?
Look at how successful and perfect Hitler's society was, before he fell.
We need Human unity. Do you disagree? We need direction, motivation, guidelines, and standards.
What central authority led to the Industrial Revolution? What central authority was responsible for the invention of the light bulb, the creation of the internet?
And this same petty "liberty" is holding us back!
From what, exactly?
Leading the industrial revolution?
Landing on the moon?
Inventing more awesome stuff than you know exists?
Please.
We do need freedom to enjoy life, I agree, but if we take it too far, we create greed and lack of cohesion, and we need these things to push Humanity forward.
The driving force of all human society, no, all life is greed. Without incentive, there is no reason to do anything. And force makes a poor incentive when it comes to the innovative thinking that has made modern western society so great.
What are you, an anarchist?
Look at how successful and perfect Hitler's society was, before he fell.
A society run on force, fear, and fake money. Yeah, it sure was going to work out... no, wait, it didn't!
visceral_instinct
09-29-08, 01:38 PM
It is not ME or YOU, it is WE, as a society, if we want a healthy nation. Otherwise we lack cohesion.
We NEED guidance, goals, and WE NEED strict order. I want to see Humanity become gods, and this is not going to happen if we have idiots holding us back.
Norsefire that's bollocks. I am an atheist, but I get on perfectly well with Christians, provided they do not force their beliefs on me. One of my closest friends is a Christian. I'm fairly sure I'm not the only one.
spidergoat
09-29-08, 01:44 PM
Order and conformity are the opposite of creativity and innovation. Without religion and the Dark Ages, we could have built on the technological success of the Greeks and Romans. Religion holds us back.
I swear to God, it is so much fun to have this bigot on ignore. You guys should join me. If he was on ignore, he'd go away, and we wouldn't have to listen to his bigoted bullcrap.
Join me.
As in, we need, or could really benefit from, what it is that a "religion" might offer, namely guidelines, common ground, and standards
Standards by which all people can seek to live up to, providing them with goals, and common goals leads to common grounds, which leads to unity; guidelines, providing a true necessary conformity for society, etc
Now, we don't require a religion that has belief in the supernatural or anything of the sort; it could be more of a philosophy-religion, namely something, as I've suggested, that praises, epitomizes, and worships the Human species
um, i hate to break this to you but that doesnt make sense. It is not a religion then, is it?
glaucon
09-29-08, 04:19 PM
um, i hate to break this to you but that doesnt make sense. It is not a religion then, is it?
You sir, are correct.
That would be a system of laws.
We need a religion... like we need a hole in the head. (Which, interestingly enough, would explain religious behaviour...)
You sir, are correct.
That would be a system of laws.
We need a religion... like we need a hole in the head. (Which, interestingly enough, would explain religious behaviour...)
We need some holes in our heads.
Not any new ones, though.
Mr. Hamtastic
09-29-08, 06:51 PM
As in, we need, or could really benefit from, what it is that a "religion" might offer, namely guidelines, common ground, and standards
Standards by which all people can seek to live up to, providing them with goals, and common goals leads to common grounds, which leads to unity; guidelines, providing a true necessary conformity for society, etc
Now, we don't require a religion that has belief in the supernatural or anything of the sort; it could be more of a philosophy-religion, namely something, as I've suggested, that praises, epitomizes, and worships the Human species
What? That's silly. We don't need religion. Get your facts straight. You and they need religion. I have faith in christianity, but I'm not going to get diarhhea if I don't have it. You, sir, get no jellybeans.
glaucon
09-29-08, 07:01 PM
We need some holes in our heads.
Not any new ones, though.
lol
I was going to say something to that effect in my post, but it would have ruined the joke.
Nicely done.
As in, we need, or could really benefit from, what it is that a "religion" might offer, namely guidelines, common ground, and standards
Standards by which all people can seek to live up to, providing them with goals, and common goals leads to common grounds, which leads to unity; guidelines, providing a true necessary conformity for society, etc
Now, we don't require a religion that has belief in the supernatural or anything of the sort; it could be more of a philosophy-religion, namely something, as I've suggested, that praises, epitomizes, and worships the Human species
Lets call the new god man the Arian race and the rest sub-humans, Sieg Heil Sieg Heil Sieg Heil Sieg Heil Sieg Heil Sieg Heil Sieg Heil.........
Why not change your revolution fist avatar with something more appropriate, a swastika maybe.
All Praise The Ancient of Days
hug-a-tree
09-29-08, 07:46 PM
"Hands that help are better far than lips that pray."
— Robert Ingersoll
KennyJC
09-30-08, 01:16 AM
As in, we need, or could really benefit from, what it is that a "religion" might offer, namely guidelines, common ground, and standards
Standards by which all people can seek to live up to, providing them with goals, and common goals leads to common grounds, which leads to unity; guidelines, providing a true necessary conformity for society, etc
Now, we don't require a religion that has belief in the supernatural or anything of the sort; it could be more of a philosophy-religion, namely something, as I've suggested, that praises, epitomizes, and worships the Human species
All the things you want would be better achieved without religion.
KennyJC
09-30-08, 01:16 AM
I swear to God, it is so much fun to have this bigot on ignore. You guys should join me. If he was on ignore, he'd go away, and we wouldn't have to listen to his bigoted bullcrap.
Join me.
I'm very close to joining you.
Norsefire
09-30-08, 05:25 PM
All the things you want would be better achieved without religion.
It does require a socially adopted policy...which we could call a religion.
I'm very close to joining you.
He put me on ignore for disagreeing with him in the "freedom or equality thread"; if you are that pathetic, go ahead.
shaman_
09-30-08, 07:39 PM
It does require a socially adopted policy...which we could call a religion..What you are describing could be called principles, standards, ethics or even a philosophy. These would be a more accurate description than 'religion'.
Norsefire
09-30-08, 07:53 PM
Ok, well we need these standards and philosophies
I'd call this a religion however because it involves worship (of the Human species)
Standards by which all people can seek to live up to, providing them with goals, and common goals leads to common grounds, which leads to unity; guidelines, providing a true necessary conformity for society, etc
Communism is already an ideology.
Now, we don't require a religion that has belief in the supernatural or anything of the sort; it could be more of a philosophy-religion, namely something, as I've suggested, that praises, epitomizes, and worships the Human species
Worship is not required. But, if you really want to worship something, then worship an education.
Norsefire
09-30-08, 09:02 PM
Communism is already an ideology. Communism is atheist anyway and I disagree vehemently with that ideology
Worship is not required. But, if you really want to worship something, then worship an education.
Nothing is really "required", but it'd be better as it boosts Human value, morale, and hey, we can praise Humanity and its perfection. Why not?
Better than praising a being we can't see, hear, taste, smell, or touch in any way.
Communism is atheist anyway and I disagree vehemently with that ideology
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.
Nothing is really "required", but it'd be better as it boosts Human value, morale, and hey, we can praise Humanity and its perfection.
Praising and worshiping are irrelevant. Recognition for achievement is another matter.
Better than praising a being we can't see, hear, taste, smell, or touch in any way.
Why waste time on medieval rituals?
Norsefire
09-30-08, 09:42 PM
Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it. Repeat what? I'm pro secular. I come from a secular country, for the most part (Syria).
And it is secular especially for the region; political parties based on religion are strictly banned, and Hafez Assad was extremely strict about keeping religion out of politics. religious-based movements are executable offenses
The only thing they need to change for us to be TRULY secular is to make it so that a non Muslim can become president. Hafez was going to do this, make it "Syrian" instead of specify religion, but the people didn't want him to, so he made it "Muslim" instead of "sunni"
Praising and worshiping are irrelevant. Recognition for achievement is another matter. They wouldn't hurt anyway.
Imagine, declaring Humanity the epitome of all life; praising and worshipping the Human species; with giant temples and statues of Human perfection by which we live by and live up to.
Such a religion would reject the supernatural as the supernatural threatens Human ability.
Repeat what? I'm pro secular. I come from a secular country, for the most part (Syria).
http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/L/Joshua.M.Landis-1/Islamic%20Education%20in%20Syria.htm
Imagine, declaring Humanity the epitome of all life; praising and worshipping the Human species; with giant temples and statues of Human perfection by which we live by and live up to.
Sounds more like a complete waste of time, energy and resources.
Norsefire
09-30-08, 10:00 PM
http://faculty-staff.ou.edu/L/Joshua.M.Landis-1/Islamic%20Education%20in%20Syria.htm Oh yes, as I said there are things to be worked out, but we are secular compared to the rest of the region and we're getting there
It's mainly the god damn sunnis that want a theocracy. Even my family over there say this, and they are also secular ( as they are alawi and that is a minority anyway)
Assad is also a minority religion, I'm sure he'll make improvements to promote secularism
It's the sunnis that make demands and seriously they are so annoying, but we have to cater to them because they are the majority.
Sounds more like a complete waste of time, energy and resources. No, it fulfills social and psychological functions, and gives pride to Humanity and divinity to our species.
We don't need to be individualists; we need to all be unique, yes, but we also need something that we all live up to, that we all desire, that we all are united by. We need perfection.
Humanity can make no accomplishments when we still allow the ignorant and weakminded to live freely.
You appear to have somewhat of a Hitler complex. Freedom is the basis of any religion and the human refusal of that freedom, the hypocrisy and blasphemy of them all. It's a weak mind that refuses another the freedom to find their way and to pursue their dreams. Your dream seems to be a dictatorship where you would tell another who and what they would be, never allowing a weaker person to become strong. If you have this superior knowledge and divine power why don't you put it into practice by solving world conflicts, ending world hunger, and restoring the global economic uncertainty? At least I make suggestions to our government leaders and point out the errors of their policies, suggesting alternatives, what is it that you do besides blurt your nonsense on this site? Greed, selfishness, and superiority complexes are the cause of all the dissention and your suggested solution is more of the same. It didn't work for Hitler, Napoleon, or Alexander and each of them was 10 times the man you'll ever be (at least) so how will it work for you?
Ignore him. Just ignore him.
I know when I say this you're going to start crying because that's what you people do and It's important that you understand that I make no judgement based on colour. Still now that I know what colour your skin is, it's easy to understand why your such an idiot.
Norsefire
10-01-08, 05:57 PM
Azriel, I'm not black, if that is what you are implying; anyway, I'm going to go ahead and put you on ignore. Your posts aren't even on topic
Anyway, so like I said a religion that worships Humanity is best; we get to keep religion AND it isn't with the supernatural.
Azriel, I'm not black, if that is what you are implying; anyway, I'm going to go ahead and put you on ignore. Your posts aren't even on topic
Anyway, so like I said a religion that worships Humanity is best; we get to keep religion AND it isn't with the supernatural.
Oh I thought being from Syria you would be of a darker compexion but if you're caucasion, that's even worse. I worship the only true God and he has nothing to do with christianity, islam or any other false religion. All religion is horseshit and a religion that worships the creation rather than the creator isn't a religion that I would want any part of. I don't care if you ignore me, quite frankly I'm getting bored with this crap anyway. I think I'll go try to find someone with an ounze of grey matter between their ears.
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