The Concept of Hell

[rockguitarist89]

This is a mere soapbox for me. I used to be a Christian. Not just a Christian, mind you, but somebody who was willing to give up everything they had to spread the Word of God. Now being awakened to rationality, I have something to ask you all. I apologize if this thread seems like a rant, but I feel it is legit.

The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit. The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire.....fire....fire.

So since I used to be a Christian, but am not at the moment, does that mean I'm going to burn in Hell? I have given money to Christian causes, told others about Jesus, and like I said, had planned my life to this false hope. Pretending God is real for just one moment, tell me am I going to hell? That just sounds ridiculous.

As common as it is to see this example, I feel I need to express my confusion. I've lived a decent life as a human being. I give to charitable causes, donate blood, and pretty much live by the rule of "treat others as you would like to be treated." I'm going to be sent to a pit of fire while a serial killer accepts Jesus during his last breath?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****. The cruelty in the Bible is just unimaginable. I could list many examples, which I might later in this thread of just some of the absurd happenings in the Bible.

Two examples: I will look up where it is located when I have time(I promise)

1. King David sleeps with Bathsheba, one of David's frontline men's wife. Bathsheba gets pregnant. Does David get reprimanded? No. Instead, God takes the baby's life as David's punishment. Wow, go God! I could go on and rant, but next example...

2. Elisha, Elijah's apprentice, who takes over for Elijah after Elijah gets taken into Heaven by a Chariot of Fire.(wow, ..again... Go God!!..couldn't do that for anyone else..just him..b/c he's special right?) Anyways, Elisha is just walking around when some teenage boys start throwing rocks at him and call him bald. After this harassment, God sends one or two bears after the boys and kill them all. Go God!!!!! Wow, the justification of human life is just splendid.

I'm getting way too emotional and I'm not even trying to be elaborate. I just don't understand this whole concept of not just Hell, but punishment for people who don't deserve it. Being somebody who has studied the Bible, gone to a Christian high school, has a crazy fanatic mom who tells me I'm going to hell, to leave the house if I don't believe, and when anytime I have a different opinion than her tells me she doesn't want to hear me "spout my venom" or some other crazy stuff, I just can't understand this magical fantasy anymore. I'm done. Your thoughts?

[Vkothii]

I believe the Bible is largely metaphorical; a construct after the facts - embellishments of historical events - celestial ones too. Flood myths are common in many cultures, e.g. The story of Jonah inside a big fish goes back further than ~700BCE or whenever the Torah or Pentateuch was put together.

With that in mind, and keeping in mind certain experiences of my own that have led me to my worldview of religions and writings and all that: that the Christian Bible has a lot of parallels in other religious writings if you read any of them. It certainly isn't the only place you can find certain kinds of tales and parables, related to our philosophical outlook, our culture.
At some stage of our development, we must have had a single culture - we all believed in the same kinds of metaphor. So it isn't a big deal to see the same kinds of stories, that must be based on the same metaphor, in different cultures. Flood myths are the most common, I think you'll find - but why? Why is the characterisation of a vengeful god, punishing wicked humans, in most examples? Where does the myth itself come from, a natural event maybe?

[Betrayer0fHope]

The notion of hell is silly, because an all powerful god could create an infinite about of hell/heavens, which with each person would go to one of them, depending on what the deserve, which god knows with his all knowingness. It's just stupid to think that God is restricted by human things, such as logic, according to theists, but apparently he is too "busy" doing other things than to save a child, stillborn, who had no knowledge of Christ anyways, and therefore will go to hell. I guess that means he approves of this. Nice guy, this God.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

The KJV is too contradictory for its god to exist. There can't be a square triangle.
If certain parts are true, then anyone who doesn't believe isn't saved from the hell we're otherwise destined for. Deserve's got nothing to do with it. Which is insane, of course. Which fits all the other insanity of the bible. If much of the KJV is true, Yahweh is insane, unpredictable, unlovable & untrustworthy & has very low selfesteem. It could've given us the bible for unknowable reasons yet won't stick to it. Maybe there won't be a hell. Maybe everyone will be in hell. IF Yahweh exists, Christians, despite their faith & their holy word, do not know what the god will do.
Of course the 2 examples you cite are a very small bit of the horrible violence of god. But David also had her husband murdered.

[Kadark]

Pain is a universally understood concept.

There is no greater retribution than hellfire.


Kadark

[Betrayer0fHope]

Aren't there people who don't feel pain?

[Nin']

The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit.

A God that was created in the minds of men that wanted to spread their power through fear.

The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire.....fire....fire.

The biblical concept of hell is logically impossible as it contradicts the existence of heaven. One could not be happy in heaven knowing a loved one is burning in hell for eternity. Thus, heaven cannot be perfect and cannot exist. Neither can you say that god will manipulate your consciousness to make you happy because this would infringe on your free will.

I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****.

Yes the men who created him must have had vivid imaginations to have created such a sadomasochistic belligerent douchebag.

[camilus]

can anyone explain to me why they believe hell is fiery??

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

I can't tell you where it is presently. But hell is compared to a nasty piece of desert & other scripture mentions the lake of fire.

[Adstar]

The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit. The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire.....fire....fire.

He sends them their for rejecting the forgiveness. He has provided for them thought the Messiah Jesus. Rejecting the Word of God is a most serious thing.

So since I used to be a Christian, but am not at the moment, does that mean I'm going to burn in Hell?

If you have come to reject the sacrifice that Jesus went through to atone for your sins and you refuse to change your mind, Then yes you will have eternity in the Lake of Fire.


I have given money to Christian causes, told others about Jesus, and like I said, had planned my life to this false hope.

It is not a false hope :)


Pretending God is real for just one moment, tell me am I going to hell? That just sounds ridiculous.

Well i am not saying that you are going to the lake of fire. But i believe if you die in your current rejection of His atonement for your sin then yes you are destined to the Lake of Fire. Irrespective of your opinion that it is ridiculous. Irrespective of your disbelief. What will be will be.



As common as it is to see this example, I feel I need to express my confusion. I've lived a decent life as a human being. I give to charitable causes, donate blood, and pretty much live by the rule of "treat others as you would like to be treated." I'm going to be sent to a pit of fire while a serial killer accepts Jesus during his last breath?

Yep.

You think your righteous works buys you eternity in the presence of the Perfect Creator of all existence??? You have got to be kidding. You are a sinner as is the serial killer is. The difference is that the serial killer has accepted the forgiveness of God for his sins while you have rejected the forgiveness of your sins. Those who are not forgiven have eternity in the Lake of Fire.


Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****.

Make your judgements upon God if you like. Declaring God who is perfect a "son of a b****" is a grand insult indeed. But it will not justify you on the day of judement.






Two examples: I will look up where it is located when I have time(I promise)

1. King David sleeps with Bathsheba, one of David's frontline men's wife. Bathsheba gets pregnant. Does David get reprimanded? No. Instead, God takes the baby's life as David's punishment. Wow, go God! I could go on and rant, but next example...

You false liar.

Read the response David received from God through Nathan his prophet: See all the stuff you left out. Have you ever read the bible yourself false accuser?

2 Samuel 12

1 Then the LORD sent Nathan to David. And he came to him, and said to him: “There were two men in one city, one rich and the other poor. 2 The rich man had exceedingly many flocks and herds. 3 But the poor man had nothing, except one little ewe lamb which he had bought and nourished; and it grew up together with him and with his children. It ate of his own food and drank from his own cup and lay in his bosom; and it was like a daughter to him. 4 And a traveler came to the rich man, who refused to take from his own flock and from his own herd to prepare one for the wayfaring man who had come to him; but he took the poor man’s lamb and prepared it for the man who had come to him.”
5 So David’s anger was greatly aroused against the man, and he said to Nathan, “As the LORD lives, the man who has done this shall surely die! 6 And he shall restore fourfold for the lamb, because he did this thing and because he had no pity.”
7 Then Nathan said to David, “You are the man! Thus says the LORD God of Israel: ‘I anointed you king over Israel, and I delivered you from the hand of Saul. 8 I gave you your master’s house and your master’s wives into your keeping, and gave you the house of Israel and Judah. And if that had been too little, I also would have given you much more! 9 Why have you despised the commandment of the LORD, to do evil in His sight? You have killed Uriah the Hittite with the sword; you have taken his wife to be your wife, and have killed him with the sword of the people of Ammon. 10 Now therefore, the sword shall never depart from your house, because you have despised Me, and have taken the wife of Uriah the Hittite to be your wife.’ 11 Thus says the LORD: ‘Behold, I will raise up adversity against you from your own house; and I will take your wives before your eyes and give them to your neighbor, and he shall lie with your wives in the sight of this sun. 12 For you did it secretly, but I will do this thing before all Israel, before the sun.’”
13 So David said to Nathan, “I have sinned against the LORD.”
And Nathan said to David, “The LORD also has put away your sin; you shall not die. 14 However, because by this deed you have given great occasion to the enemies of the LORD to blaspheme, the child also who is born to you shall surely die.” 15 Then Nathan departed to his house.

So to you now take this opportunity to use the deeds of David to blaspheme the God of Abraham. Tell your lies to those who are ignorant of the scriptures and you may prosper in it. But as the saying goes you can fool most of the people most of the time but you cannot fool all the people all the time.


2. Elisha, Elijah's apprentice, who takes over for Elijah after Elijah gets taken into Heaven by a Chariot of Fire.(wow, ..again... Go God!!..couldn't do that for anyone else..just him..b/c he's special right?)

Why the sarcasm? Does it add to your points? No not one bit. You just reveal the spirit within you.


Anyways, Elisha is just walking around when some teenage boys start throwing rocks at him and call him bald. After this harassment, God sends one or two bears after the boys and kill them all. Go God!!!!! Wow, the justification of human life is just splendid.

So be it. Where the boys mocking him because he was bald or where they mocking his baldness seeking to undermine him as a messenger of God. You do not know the motivation of those who mocked Elisha. Or even those who may have urged the children to do it. God knows the whole situation. You Don't.

I'm getting way too emotional and I'm not even trying to be elaborate.

Your doing very well in revealing the hatred that is within you. An excellent job indeed.


I just don't understand this whole concept of not just Hell, but punishment for people who don't deserve it. Being somebody who has studied the Bible,

"studied the Bible" ???? I have already revealed by posting 2 Samuel 12 the quality of your supposed bible study. I suggest you stop making proud boasts that have been shown to be lies.


gone to a Christian high school, has a crazy fanatic mom who tells me I'm going to hell, to leave the house if I don't believe, and when anytime I have a different opinion than her tells me she doesn't want to hear me "spout my venom" or some other crazy stuff, I just can't understand this magical fantasy anymore. I'm done. Your thoughts?

This is not about your mother. This is about you and your personal reply to the Word of God. At lest your mom has one thing right. Your full of venom.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Nin']

It is not a false hope :)

It's as much as a false hope as any other religion that promises paradise. You might as well worship the three little pigs, at least the story is short, easy to memorize, and is written in a simple childish style that isn't as convoluted as the bible (Stops you from having all those pesky interpretations).


You think your righteous works buys you eternity in the presence of the Perfect Creator of all existence??? You have got to be kidding.

You think a simple acceptance of Jesus in your last breath, while during your whole life you've been murdering people and raping babies, buys you eternity in the presence of the Perfect Creator of all existence??? You have got to be kidding.

You are a sinner as is the serial killer is. The difference is that the serial killer has accepted the forgiveness of God for his sins while you have rejected the forgiveness of your sins.

What if that serial killer murdered someone who would have turned to Christ so he/she suffered an eternity in hell because of that? Funny how you can say a simple white lie is equivalent to such a horrible (fictional) deed. Then again your book of ancient desert scribblings says so, therefore, it's true. Right?

Those who are not forgiven have eternity in the Lake of Fire.
That's nice, I'll be spending time with some of the greatest people to ever exist including Einstein and Hawking.

Make your judgements upon God if you like. Declaring God who is perfect a "son of a b****" is a grand insult indeed. But it will not justify you on the day of judement.

What If I call him a sadomasochist and can back that up, is it ok? I mean it's true and all.

You false liar.

A false liar? That seems a little redundant. Also, you'd be the one to convict someone else of being a liar when you lie to yourself every day. Keep telling yourself that your fairy tales are real, that still won’t make them true.


So be it. Where the boys mocking him because he was bald or where they mocking his baldness seeking to undermine him as a messenger of God. You do not know the motivation of those who mocked Elisha. Or even those who may have urged the children to do it. God knows the whole situation. You Don't.

So you see the ridiculousness of it? You have too; otherwise you wouldn’t be making excuses for god.


Your doing very well in revealing the hatred that is within you. An excellent job indeed. He’s not full of hatred, I see it more as contempt.

This is not about your mother. This is about you and your personal reply to the Word of God. At lest your mom has one thing right. Your full of venom.

And you’re full of ****.

[Medicine*Woman]

This is a mere soapbox for me. I used to be a Christian. Not just a Christian, mind you, but somebody who was willing to give up everything they had to spread the Word of God. Now being awakened to rationality, I have something to ask you all. I apologize if this thread seems like a rant, but I feel it is legit.

The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit. The whole concept sounds hokey right from the start. I mean, fire...fire...fire.

So since I used to be a Christian, but am not at the moment, does that mean I'm going to burn in Hell? I have given money to Christian causes, told others about Jesus, and like I said, had planned my life to this false hope. Pretending God is real for just one moment, tell me am I going to hell? That just sounds ridiculous. We are all believers in something. I just happen to believe that there is no god.

As common as it is to see this example, I feel I need to express my confusion. I've lived a decent life as a human being. I give to charitable causes, donate blood, and pretty much live by the rule of "treat others as you would like to be treated." I'm going to be sent to a pit of fire while a serial killer accepts Jesus during his last breath?

Correct me if I'm wrong. I understand God might not have to be fair, if he existed. But if he's real, he's one sick son of a b****. The cruelty in the Bible is just unimaginable. I could list many examples, which I might later in this thread of just some of the absurd happenings in the Bible.

Two examples: I will look up where it is located when I have time(I promise)

1. King David sleeps with Bathsheba, one of David's frontline. ` could go on and rant, but next example...

2. Elisha, Elijah's apprentice, who takes over for Elijah after Elijah gets taken into Heaven by a Chariot of Fire.(wow, ..again... Go God!!..couldn't do that for anyone else..just him..b/c he's special right?) Anyways, Elisha is just walking around when some teenage boys start throwing rocks at him and call him bald. After this harassment, God sends one or two bears after the boys and kill them all. Go God!!!!! Wow, the justification of human life is just splendid.

I'm getting way too emotional and I'm not even trying to be elaborate. I just don't understand this whole concept of not just Hell, but punishment for people who don't deserve it. Being somebody who has studied the Bible, gone to a Christian high school, has a crazy fanatic mom who tells me I'm going to hell, to leave the house if I don't believe, and when anytime I have a different opinion than her tells me she doesn't want to hear me "spout my venom" or some other crazy stuff, I just can't understand this magical fantasy anymore. I'm done. Your thoughts?
*************
M*W: Welcome to SciForums, my precious! You will have a lot to offer this website. I was walking in your shoes once, but now I'm free of the delusion of religion. You are not alone! People who post on SciForums have walked in your shoes. We understand where you're coming from.

Also, we don't give too much credence to what religionists say. They are the deluded ones, but they can't see how they are deluded. Be careful when you reply to S.A.M. She is an habitual liar. She is Muslim, but that's really not her downfall. There are Muslims who are honest and respectable people. S.A.M. is not one of them.

You'll find the moderators of this forum to be open-minded, so don't worry about any rants you may have. You will find many friends here, but you will also find a few enemies, too. Don't worry, you will be in good hands!

Don't be confused, my precious. I believe you will soon see the truth. SciForums will lead you in that direction. SciForums saved my life. I am a true believer in atheism! Some people say that atheism is not a belief. I dare to deny that statement!


Again, welcome to the web site that will bring you the truth! You can't go anywhere else to find it. You are in the right place! Again, welcome. I'm sure we all will look forward to your coming posts!

Regards,

~ Medicine*Woman

[Medicine*Woman]

Pain is a universally understood concept.

There is no greater retribution than hell. Kadark
*************
M*W: Go for it, mein freund.

[Medicine*Woman]

can anyone explain to me why they believe hell is fiery??
M*W: The concept of hell is fiery, because it is an image of the bright sun. If anyone dares to look directly into the sunlight, your eyes will be burned... aka the Lake of Fire! It's all metaphorical. There is no Lake of Fire ergo, no Hell. People who believe in this crap are delusional (i.e Adstar).

You have nothing to worry about. You will never end up in any (Lake of fire)! That is the major delusion of christianity. The ("Lake of Fire) is just a delusion of the Sun!

You heard this first from Medicine*Woman.

[cosmictraveler]

Aren't there people who don't feel pain?

Yes, they are known as LAWYERS! ;)

[rockguitarist89]

Adstar:

From what you've written, I've concluded you are either joking, or one close-minded human. I'm thinking the former. It is obvious to me that through your intended fearful and hurtful responses to my original post that you are trying to make me angry and I am no fool.

I believe Adstar, that you are an atheist, trolling on the SciForums network just to annoy people, acting as if you are a know-it-all Christian. The secrets out. Thanks for making my day. You are not even good at hiding this illusion of false religion.

By taking the time to google up what I was talking about or going through your Bible's appendix, it's easy to copy and paste, or re-write the words of the Bible. That gives you no creditability in my book. Your thoughts are not your own. Next time you respond to any one of my posts, I will completely disregard it as if it were not there. I do not to waste my time on reading trolls responses to my threads. Once again, Adstar, you are an atheist trolling on these forums trying to convince everyone you are Christian. It's so obvious through ways you respond to posts that you are just trying to be a douchebag.

[Kadark]

Aren't there people who don't feel pain?

Some people have relatively high pain thresholds, but all of that is negligible when your entire body is being roasted by fire so hot that its appearance takes the colour of pitch black.

*************
M*W: Go for it, mein freund.

What?


Kadark

[Medicine*Woman]

Some people have relatively high pain thresholds, but all of that is negligible when your entire body is being roasted by fire so hot that its appearance takes the colour of pitch black.

What?

Kadark

*************
M*W: Sorry, I thought you sprechen Sie Deutsche.

[Captain Kremmen]

Revelation 20


22 ....So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom....


Carried by the angels to Abraham's bosom. That sounds like a metaphor to me, or was the beggar physically carried by angels to the chest area of Abraham.

[Nin']

I am a true believer in atheism! Some people say that atheism is not a belief. I dare to deny that statement!


Believing in atheism is equivalent to me believing that my shirt is red. Everything is a belief, but not all beliefs are faiths.

[ggazoo]

What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit.

The fiery pit is a metaphor. And God doesn't send people to hell, they choose it.

[MarcAC]

...The concept of hell. What kind of God sends people who don't believe in his Son to a fiery pit...Hey dude/tte consider it this way: if you don't believe in God, then in the afterlife, you will be in a place where God is not. The place where there is a complete absence of God, is the place called hell. So don't beat yourself up about it too much, since you don't believe in God and presumably want nothing to do with God, then well... You'll end up somewhere God isn't. :shrug:

Yeeaaahh, yeaaaah the whole firy pit and sh*t - well that's just imagery from a culture of the past. Remember the Bible has historical and cultural contexts, so hell may be different things to different people as time progresses. One thing that will never change is that where hell is, God isn't. Atheists will probably rejoice in that fact. No more God! You know? :)

Arguably you can say that our society today has some balance between the Will of God, and man's will. So in hell, you just take all God's Will away, and man's will remains for him to do whatever he wants with, except, I guess, go back to God - too late by that time, probably. We can't know what the God-less place'll be like until God is completely removed from all existence around us - I for one will stick to the God side of that uncertainty. :cool:

[ggazoo]

Nicely stated MarcAC.

Robert Bellah's "Habits of the Heart" peaks about a modern culture who has no problem with a loving God who supports us no matter how we live, but has a major problem with a judgmental God. Many have a problem with "a loving God that would allow hell". Modern people think that God gives us time, but if we haven't made the right choices, he says "Too late! You've had your chance!" and casts your poor soul to hell as punishment. This thought is quite laughable IMO.

Christians believe that we were originally created to flourish in God's presence. Sin separates us from the presence of God. If were were to lose His presence totally, that would be hell. And that's what I meant when I said that people choose hell... spiritual eternity without God, forever (I'm in the camp that the "eternal fires" are metaphorical).

Basically, hell is simply one's freely chosen identity from God on a trajectory into infinity. If God is love, then Heaven is a wonderful place in his presence.

On the flip side, those in hell are miserable; they would rather have their "freedom" from God rather than their salvation. Their delusion is that if they glorified God, they would somehow lose power and freedom, but ironically, their choice has ruined their own potential for greatness. I know that C.S. Lewis is shunned around here, but I think what he wrote applies to this thread (and is probably better than my babble):

"There are only two kinds of people - those who say "Thy will be done" to God or those to whom God in the end says "Thy will be done"; All that are in Hell choose it. Without that self-choice it wouldn't be Hell. No soul that seriously and constantly desires joy will ever miss it".

[SkinWalker]

Hey dude/tte consider it this way: if you don't believe in God, then in the afterlife, you will be in a place where God is not.

Very poorly argued. If one doesn't believe in your god, it doesn't imply that he/she will not share the afterlife with a god.

This assumes that you've chosen the correct god and that, if a god exists (one that hasn't revealed itself to humanity), it wouldn't prefer someone that is willing to not believe in a false god (your own).

Moreover, if there actually is no god, then there is no afterlife. Indeed, there's no good reason to believe that an afterlife exists. It is, however, part of the mythology of various religious cults, many of them conflicting in their dogma and superstition.

The real question is: if there exists an afterlife, how do you know it's populated and maintained by your god and not someone else's?

[SkinWalker]

Mod Note: Please keep posts on topic, with discussion content, and without proselytization.

[ggazoo]

Moreover, if there actually is no god, then there is no afterlife. Indeed, there's no good reason to believe that an afterlife exists.

You yourself have just made an assumption, that God does not exist.

Regardless, all God does in the end is give people what they want, including freedom from himself. What could be more fair than that?

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

The fiery pit is a metaphor. And God doesn't send people to hell, they choose it.

No matter what spin you put on it, you're talking about an allpowerful being having people suffer horribly for eternity.

[MarcAC]

Very poorly argued. If one doesn't believe in your god, it doesn't imply that he/she will not share the afterlife with a god.

This assumes that you've chosen the correct god and that, if a god exists (one that hasn't revealed itself to humanity), it wouldn't prefer someone that is willing to not believe in a false god (your own).Actually, my argument was within the context of this thread i.e - Christianity and Hell? You're a moderator - moderators should have a very good grasp of context, yet your argument steps neatly out of context, doesn't it?Moreover, if there actually is no god, then there is no afterlife. Indeed, there's no good reason to believe that an afterlife exists. It is, however, part of the mythology of various religious cults, many of them conflicting in their dogma and superstition.And even if there is a god, there may not be an afterlife either. And there may even be no god, and there still may be an afterlife. Let's keep it within context - Christianity. We all have our opinions on what is a good reason, and what isn't, wouldn't you agree?The real question is: if there exists an afterlife, how do you know it's populated and maintained by your god and not someone else's?The real issue is about hell within the context of Christianity, which is what this thread is about. So let's keep it within context and, if you want to speak of other gods, then, start another thread.

[SkinWalker]

You yourself have just made an assumption, that God does not exist.

I made no assumption at all (except, perhaps one of the reading and comprehension skills of others) in my statement. Go back and read it again and not the qualifying "if" used at the beginning. :-)

Regardless, all God does in the end is give people what they want, including freedom from himself. What could be more fair than that?

Assuming, of course, that your god exists. But we allow for that assumption (as a thought experiment), how are you certain that all your god "does in the end is give people what they want?"

Actually, my argument was within the context of this thread i.e - Christianity and Hell? You're a moderator - moderators should have a very good grasp of context, yet your argument steps neatly out of context, doesn't it?

Why keep to the limited context of a very narrow-minded view of the universe. Christianity is but one set of cults that believe in a hell concept. Indeed, it is very likely that this concept is borrowed from earlier mythology of other cults.

For all readers & discussants: the moderator has opened this thread up to all concepts of hell from all cults extant and extinct.

After all, this is a religion subforum of a Science forum, not a Christian sub-forum of a religious forum. Let's give all religious cults fair critique.

[MarcAC]

After all, this is a religion subforum of a Science forum, not a Christian sub-forum of a religious forum. Let's give all religious cults fair critique.I disagree with your position that this is a religion subforum of a Science forum. This website is called Sciforums and there's a neat forum at the top of the home page dedicated to science. This is a religion sub-forum of a philosophy forum of the website, and this thread was (until your 'declaration') a thread focusing on the Concept of Hell in the context of Christianity. I understand you're an atheist but that doesn't qualify you to modify context as you see fit - you exercising your powers as a moderator to modify the context is simply, hilarious and pathetic.

[SkinWalker]

See SubForum Rules (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=34473), first paragraph.

You're allowed to disagree. The nature of the forum will, however, remain the same. Please do not respond to this post in this thread as it will be considered off-topic and deleted. For further communication, rules questions, or other metadiscussion, use PMs or the Site Feedback forum.

[ggazoo]

I disagree with your position that this is a religion subforum of a Science forum. This website is called Sciforums and there's a neat forum at the top of the home page dedicated to science. This is a religion sub-forum of a philosophy forum of the website, and this thread was (until your 'declaration') a thread focusing on the Concept of Hell in the context of Christianity. I understand you're an atheist but that doesn't qualify you to modify context as you see fit - you exercising your powers as a moderator to modify the context is simply, hilarious and pathetic.

Maybe MarcAC ws a little harsh here, but...


After all, this is a religion subforum of a Science forum, not a Christian sub-forum of a religious forum. Let's give all religious cults fair critique.

To label all religions as "cult" as an underlying tone of bias.

[SkinWalker]

I'm an anthropologist and an archaeologist. All religions are a cult from my perspective (one that is outside of religion and not biased to any single religion).

cult - n. A particular form or system of religious worship; esp. in reference to its external rites and ceremonies. -Oxford English Dictionary, 2nd ed. 1989

[Quigly]

To label all religions as "cult" as an underlying tone of bias.

agreed..though the term "cult" by one of its definitions could be deemed accurate, it is a negative term for religious groups. It usually refers to the nutters. ~~~~~~~~~`

Christians are kind of split on hell, some think it a physical fire/burning, while others feel it is more a seperation from God, while still others feel it is a prison of sorts with torture, ect...

I lean toward the seperation from God aspect.

[Adstar]

Adstar:

From what you've written, I've concluded you are either joking, or one close-minded human. I'm thinking the former. It is obvious to me that through your intended fearful and hurtful responses to my original post that you are trying to make me angry and I am no fool.

You where already angary.. You even called it a rant. People rant when they are angary. Of course you are and where angary. No point in denying it.


I believe Adstar, that you are an atheist, trolling on the SciForums network just to annoy people, acting as if you are a know-it-all Christian. The secrets out. Thanks for making my day. You are not even good at hiding this illusion of false religion.

I Believe Jesus.


By taking the time to google up what I was talking about or going through your Bible's appendix, it's easy to copy and paste, or re-write the words of the Bible.

The words are there, and i exposed your claim to be learned in scripture as false.


That gives you no creditability in my book.

What makes you think i want to be credible in the book of a hate filled anti-christ?


Your thoughts are not your own.

True. To a certain extent. If a person is a messenger of God then most of the message they give will not be their own thoughts.


Next time you respond to any one of my posts, I will completely disregard it as if it were not there.

So be it.


I do not to waste my time on reading trolls responses to my threads. Once again, Adstar, you are an atheist trolling on these forums trying to convince everyone you are Christian. It's so obvious through ways you respond to posts that you are just trying to be a douchebag.

Blab, blab, blab. Viterol, viterol, viterol, avoid, dodge and stick your head in the sand. One who is wilfully lost spits and slaps and runs away.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

agreed..though the term "cult" by one of its definitions could be deemed accurate, it is a negative term for religious groups. It usually refers to the nutters. ~~~~~~~~~`

Christians are kind of split on hell, some think it a physical fire/burning, while others feel it is more a seperation from God, while still others feel it is a prison of sorts with torture, ect...

I lean toward the seperation from God aspect.

If there is a god as described/depicted in the Holy Babble (for the moment forgetting that it's too contradictory), I certainly want to be as far from it as possible. Hell would be being near the creep.

[MarcAC]

Maybe MarcAC ws a little harsh here, but...Tit for tat. ;)



To label all religions as "cult" as an underlying tone of bias.Obvious, isn't it? :)

[Nin']

Tit for tat. ;)



Obvious, isn't it? :)

By the definition he provided, religion perfectly falls under it. :rolleyes:

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

All religions are cults. Yes, I am biased against the practice, fervor & pride of believing things for which there is no evidence.

[SkinWalker]

I think its important to use terminology that is inclusive and broad when it comes to examining religion. Indeed, I find it offensive that members of Christian cults so easily and casually apply the term "cult" to religious groups that differ from their own. The greater the difference, the more likely Christians are to apply the term.

This doesn't apply to all Christians, of course. Nor is it limited to just cults of Christianity -cults of Islam, for instance, are just as likely (if not more so in some cases) to assign the term "cult" to groups that believe in superstitions and supernatural agency different from their own.

By leveling the playing field and apply the term broadly and intentionally, I'm including cults of Christianity, Islam, etc. as religious groups which have superstitions and supernatural beliefs that defy reason and have supernatural agents whom they worship and desire to appeal to.

And, among these superstitions that are, in turn, among these cults, lies superstitious beliefs about "hell." Religious cults use various methods to maintain control and to manipulate their followers. By being able to do this, religious cults are able to sustain increase membership, dictate behavior among adherents, and provide reason for participation in cult rituals. This set of rituals and doctrine/dogma act as a feedback system, pushing cult followers to adhere to dogmatic demands, justifying doctrinal demands, and actualizing or reenacting believed events in cult doctrine (i.e. communion, baptism, being "saved," etc.).

"Hell" is merely one of the many mythical controls that religious cults use to manipulate their followers. Cult leaders allege that failure to speak certain words, participate in certain rituals, or believe certain beliefs, results in an eternity in "hell." And "hell" exists in many different religions and their cults.

For instance, the Islamic koran speaks of "hell" several times:
It is unlawful for a believer to kill another believer except by accident. ... He that kills a believer by design shall burn in Hell forever.
- Sura 4:92,93

The adherents of many Hindu cults would consider "hell" as a state of mind. (http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Spirit_World/id/21687)

But, for Christian cults, the notion of "hell" takes on a special tone. In some ways, Christianity is a very successful religion if only because its various cults have figured out some common methods for keeping a spell on their adherents. A spell that instills fear and prevents them from daring to even question, inquire, or speak against cult leaders, cult deities, and even the mythical "holy spirit."

Hell is a big fear motivator.

Jesus repeatedly called hell a place of unquenchable flames (Mark 9:43–48 ) where the very bodies of the wicked will never die (cf. Luke 12:4–5 ). John the apostle described hell as a place of eternal torment. He declared that “the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever” ( Rev. 20:10 ).

Believers within christian cults are ultimately steered by two possible, but mythic, destinies: do right -go to heaven; do wrong -go to hell.

For many christian cults, you need only believe in its main god and you get to go into heaven. For many others, you need also believe in the minor god of Jesus as well as Yahweh to get the heaven reward. But you better not call the third christian god, the holy ghost, an asshole, or you'll never, ever get in -no matter how hard you try. Instead, you get the reserved suite at the lakeside (of fire) address in "hell". For dissing a ghost.

Finally, I like what Robert Ingersoll said of "hell": it includes "all the meanness, all the revenge, all the selfishness, all the cruelty, all the hatred, all the infamy of which the heart of man is capable."

Hell is a mythical place created by man.

[superluminal]

So, theoretically at least, hell is heaven for a hard-core masochist, and vice-versa? Yes?

[MarcAC]

So, theoretically at least, hell is heaven for a hard-core masochist, and vice-versa? Yes?Yes.

[Medicine*Woman]

*************
M*W: If an ancient human looked upon the day sky (which was belived to be true), he would have seen the brightness of the sun (son) which would have appeared as the "Lake of Fire."

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

Makes me think of christians pointing away from Earth & saying "I know where I'm going when I die".

[SkinWalker]

Hell concepts with most religions can be traced back to the notion that the sun passes under the earth at night.

In ancient Egyptian cults, Ra traveled the underworld with Set, Mehen, and Ma'at in a boat to protect the sun from the waters of the underworld. Each sunrise was a rebirth of the sun goddess, Nut.

This underworld is present in many, many cultures and can be found in their myth and lore as well as represented in their art. It's an intuitive deduction that ancient peoples arrive at as they observe what appears to be the sun lowering into the ground or ocean only to rise again on the other side.

In many of these cultures, "the west" becomes the place of the dead and the gateway to the underworld. This is true of Egyptians 4,000 years ago as well as the Zuni just 400 years ago.

It doesn't take too much imagination to develop stories of the underworld into stories of a "hell."

[MarcAC]

*************
M*W: If an ancient human looked upon the day sky (which was belived to be true), he would have seen the brightness of the sun (son) which would have appeared as the "Lake of Fire."They could've also seen Volcanic eruptions from a vantage point - seeing lava flow into oceans, or elsewhere, and arrived at a similar conclusion - of course I have no evidence to support this apart from the fact that volcanoes exist, humans have seen them, humans have seen them erupt, there are lava flows and the concept of hell exists - common sense.

[Cellar_Door]

I believe the Bible is largely metaphorical;


That's a handy get-out clause. ;)