Im losing my faith

[sisyphus__]

Ok. I'll share a moment of my time. First I don't really "believe" in God, it's more of a faith or how to say it trust sort of thing. Others I am certain feel similar or exactly the same... :shrug: I don't know though I mean I do believe in what I believe to be this trust, and feel God exists however he exists in truth.

But I most certainly have been catching myself saying to myself after saying something in my head like "these people are so stupid to say God exists in such a manner as they say he does". I cannot believe how dumb and arragant they are. :mad:

I get upset that they are ignorant and I find myself doing it in more abrasive ways.

Sometimes I'll think it's a prejudice. That one person perhaps indeed does feel of god as I feel she does and hold it to be a form of necessity. That is common but why do I start to question something which is so miserable when I don't want to change my comfortable beliefs anyhow (trust me. To obviously discuss comfort with me is beyond unreasonable at certain times.)

Most of the time it's just plain idiotic.

But I ask if that's how I really feel.

I want to believe in the bible and in God but I just can't continue holding up to so much of stupidity for so long. I have tried to recounsel my beliefs to the best of my ability telling myself God likly is rational there likly is no reason I have to worry about anything if anything my beliefs are correct I consider how God exists in truth and in depth.

How in the end am I going to consider reading the bible.
I haven't touched a bible in about 5 or 6 months. At that time I was wanting to believe it fully or at least take it as I wanted.
When I come back to it I will still have faith in it.
But I feel like I am losing a certain love. Like I need some advice. What is happening with me does it look like.

I don't mean to get really uuber personal with you.
But I don't know how I should feel about this.

...Does anyone have any similar thoughts in the matter? :(

[Michael]

Hmmmm..... is it you WANT to remain religious or you don't? I used to be theist and then I had an epiphany and now I am atheist. Perhaps you are at the cusp of having a similar epiphany? Which brings us back to: is it you want to remain religous or you don't? If you do then I suggest stop thinking too much about God and just accept God. Thinking too much is not good for remaining theistic.

[hypewaders]

"...Does anyone have any similar thoughts in the matter? "

You're not alone- but Christian societies are typically highly-defensive, and Christians you know may try in subtle ways make you feel isolated and inferior for thinking independently. You'll likely find it very helpful to make some new friends who have left Christianity. Reading the work of literary ex-Christians can also help you to set your own thoughts in order. I was brought up a Christian, and Bertrand Russell's Why I am Not a Christian (http://users.drew.edu/~jlenz/whynot.html) was the first thing I ever saw, that provided any reassurance that I wasn't alone in my rational difficulties with Christian faith.

Leaving Christianity (http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~slocks/decon.html) is a simple website on the subject with handy links for more reading. Don't allow Christians to make you feel alone or defective in your doubts- you're not.

[John99]

"...Does anyone have any similar thoughts in the matter? "

You're not alone- but Christian societies are typically highly-defensive, and Christians you know may try in subtle ways make you feel isolated and inferior for thinking independently.

And what society is not? Even Atheists get defensive....Fundamentalist's? well that goes without saying.

SissyF, do what you want. Why do you think anyone cares if you decided that you were Agnostic?

Sure if you were female then you would be courted by various groups for what you sit on but in your case i wouldnt worry too much.

[Leo Volont]

Dear Sisyphus,

I can sympathize with your urge toward Religion, but why the Bible? It is a good reference material, and one should be familiar with it, but one would hope that Religion had developed somewhat since the time when it was compiled. Besides, much of the Bible is absolutely spurious... the 14 Letters of Paul being the works of the virtual Anti-Christ. The Big Hint there is that any True Religion should not focus upon Forgiveness of Sin. Any authentic Religion would be more about Moral Responsibility, wouldn't it?

And then there is Spirituality and Emotional Health. People look for an External God forget that God is probably best being Psychological. When I hear Atheists say that 'only Crazy people see God', I say, "duh!" Whom is God supposed to do the most good for anyway?

Also, even psychologically healthy people experience God... where? In dreams. People who work with dreams, year in, year out, doing their best to follow their guidance are eventually lead to Angels and then to God. Real or just Dreams? Well, nobody can force a Dream of God. The Ecstatic Experience is real enough.

Now, I am not dismissing the Miraculous. Every Moral Religion has had documentation of Miracle Working Saints. Notice that Christianity has had Miracle Working Saints only in times when it had forgotten Paul and insisted upon Moral Responsibility and pursued Spirituality. In this Day and Age where Christianity, both Protestantism and Corrupted Catholicism see themselves as Vehicles for Moral Permissiveness (what else is Salvation?), there are no Christian Saints... no Christian Miracles. Sin, forgiven or not, is not allowed in the House of God. One must either BE pure or return to Purity.

How? Well, study the lives of the Saints... Christian Saints of the Marian Orders (that had always rejected Paulism) or the Saints of Sufism or Hinduism. yes, yes, there is so much talk of Buddhism... but we don't need a Religion to teach us how to riot, do we? Philosophically and Spiritually there is nothing to be found in Buddhism that is not double trumped by Spiritual and Metaphysical Hinduism -- Sanskrit Philosophy.

[sisyphus__]

Hmmmm..... is it you WANT to remain religious or you don't? I used to be theist and then I had an epiphany and now I am atheist. Perhaps you are at the cusp of having a similar epiphany? Which brings us back to: is it you want to remain religous or you don't? If you do then I suggest stop thinking too much about God and just accept God. Thinking too much is not good for remaining theistic.

Thank you all. ... Just when considering leaving the forum due to no response to any posts I get some very nice input.

You pose a very difficult question for me to answer.
Leovalunt you write a very nice letter with much thought provoking and food for thought.

I think this is funny though I wanted to comment:
Even Atheists get defensive
Any attack aganist "atheist" is almost always done with ...... what's the word? Prejudice, incorrect thinking, logicial fallacy or whatnot? My reasoning is simple. And the reason I bring it up in the first place, is that it relates quite well with me, myself. Atheists are not defensive unless they are a stupid atheist. You should know that.

I don't believe that I would get defensive if I were an atheist. However I do believe that the position is something worth holding if someone is to hold it.

I do not plan to become an atheist. Sometimes the best or any advice at all, is the hardest to give especially in a case like this.

Refering someone who is simply sad etc about his loss in faith and wishing to hear commentary similar to the thought presented in the opening post is difficult to do especially if there isn't much to present. But what is there to present. That's the question really.

I am just sad that's all. I have had a position on faith which I have (probably) taken for granted and such. It is just a crisis. I don't wish to lose faith in God of the bible just as I don't wish to lose any other of my faiths in whatever I held in high esteem. But so much stupidity, sometimes, is hard to handle.... I guess it's pretty deep isn't it. Here it is: I don't want to quit believing in God.

That's all I want to say. Just you can discuss whatever you want that relates with the opening post..

[hypewaders]

"I don't want to quit believing in God."

If God can't fit within the Christianity box, it isn't necessarily an absence.

[JDawg]

I'm glad I never believed in God, because I have never had to have a crisis like this.

[SetiAlpha6]

Here it is: I don't want to quit believing in God.

That's all I want to say. Just you can discuss whatever you want that relates with the opening post..


I might be able to understand what you are going through.

If you do not want to quit believing in God, then don't. Why should you have to?

If the Bible really is the work of mere men and not the very "Word of God" (my own personal view) then that truth alone can be an immensely freeing and enabling thing. I think you already sense that. For one thing, finally, you don't have to blame God for everything that is written in it. Finally, you can feel guilt free for NOT killing your own children when they sin, because that really is commanded in the Bible.

You can learn to think for yourself and learn to love and forgive others even more than you do now. The walls between people can begin to come down and your understanding of this world can become ever deeper.

SMILE!!!!!!!!

You understand things that many, if not most, never understand in their entire life. You are truely blessed!

Anyway, Take Care!

[Michael]

Probably you think your life is going to dramatically change - but, in reality, once you come to the conclusion there is no God, believe it or not, the earth doesn't shake. It just makes more sense.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

sisyphus, I've had similar problems, which is why I've developed the belief I have today. If you strip christianity of all the extra garbage people like to attatch to it, it gets pretty simple. I believe that God wants us to CHOOSE to believe in him and follow his teachings. His teachings boil down to treat other people the way you want to be treated, and trust/love God. The trust/love occurs by simply choosing to believe. Other christians usually call me a "bad" christian for this, but that's ok. My belief is stronger and more valuable to me because I chose it. I guess that's what I'm trying to say, really. Do you choose to believe or choos to not believe? As far as christianity goes, it really is that simple.

[hypewaders]

Here's something fun for the whole family: Take the Blasphemy Challenge (http://www.blasphemychallenge.com/).


I like the practical approach of Rational Responders: "Believe in God? We can fix that." (http://www.rationalresponders.com/)

[OilIsMastery]

How can anyone look at Barack Obama and say with a straight face that God exists?

[hypewaders]

Yep, Jethro, that's one ugly n******, who don't know his place (http://www.evilbible.com/Slavery.htm).

[John99]

It is amazing how many Christians are on sciforums. People you would never suspect are "coming out".

[(Q)]

Like I need some advice. What is happening with me does it look like.

If you grew up with your religion, and it's been the religion of your family, most likely you were indoctrinated like most other theists. And, now you're beginning to realize it's all myth and superstition, yet you can't come to terms with it, simply because it's been part of your entire life's upbringing.

But, if you realize that you were in fact indoctrinated, it makes coming to terms with it much easier, and you'll find yourself shedding the belief system that has been handed down to you even though you never made a choice to follow the religion in the first place.

[Challenger78]

Sisyphus: Do you view a large portion of religion as tokenistic and unnecessary ?

[John99]

But, if you realize that you were in fact indoctrinated, it makes coming to terms with it much easier, and you'll find yourself shedding the belief system that has been handed down to you even though you never made a choice to follow the religion in the first place.

It is hard to imagine him being pressured into a belief system.

[(Q)]

It is hard to imagine him being pressured into a belief system.

Indoctrination doesn't mean being "pressured."

[John99]

I guess it just depends on what you experience. My parents never asked me or told me about belief systems. It was never an issue.

[(Q)]

I guess it just depends on what you experience. My parents never asked me or told me about belief systems. It was never an issue.

Hence, you never did make a choice. You were simply taught your religion and you accepted it, as most children would accept Santa. ;)

[John99]

I wasnt taught any religion. Unless you know something that i dont.

[JDawg]

Q, it's not always at childhood that people are brainwashed. Remember, religion feeds on fear and weakness, so there must have been something about John's character that made him a perfect fit for faith, even as an adult.

[Dr Mabuse]

I want to believe in the bible and in God but I just can't continue holding up to so much of stupidity for so long.

I would bet a large sum of money you haven't even read the bible, to even lightly understand what it is you want to believe in.

So often the case.

I find the people the most ignorant about the bible are the ones who 'preach' it on Sunday, and the 'critics' of it.

Seems very few actually read the thing and THEN form an opinion.

[JDawg]

I would bet a large sum of money you haven't even read the bible, to even lightly understand what it is you want to believe in.

So often the case.

I find the people the most ignorant about the bible are the ones who 'preach' it on Sunday, and the 'critics' of it.

Seems very few actually read the thing and THEN form an opinion.

So anyone who criticizes that fantasy document simply must not have read it?

Nice cop out. Try applying that to your religious brothers and sisters next time they try arguing against evolution.

[Dr Mabuse]

You need to up your reading comprehension level.

What a simplistic, simpleminded, reactionary bit of drivel that post was.

[JDawg]

You need to up your reading comprehension level.

What a simplistic, simpleminded, reactionary bit of drivel that post was.

Great answer. No substance, just noise.

How shockingly typical.

[EmptyForceOfChi]

Ok. I'll share a moment of my time. First I don't really "believe" in God, it's more of a faith or how to say it trust sort of thing. Others I am certain feel similar or exactly the same... :shrug: I don't know though I mean I do believe in what I believe to be this trust, and feel God exists however he exists in truth.

But I most certainly have been catching myself saying to myself after saying something in my head like "these people are so stupid to say God exists in such a manner as they say he does". I cannot believe how dumb and arragant they are. :mad:

I get upset that they are ignorant and I find myself doing it in more abrasive ways.

Sometimes I'll think it's a prejudice. That one person perhaps indeed does feel of god as I feel she does and hold it to be a form of necessity. That is common but why do I start to question something which is so miserable when I don't want to change my comfortable beliefs anyhow (trust me. To obviously discuss comfort with me is beyond unreasonable at certain times.)

Most of the time it's just plain idiotic.

But I ask if that's how I really feel.

I want to believe in the bible and in God but I just can't continue holding up to so much of stupidity for so long. I have tried to recounsel my beliefs to the best of my ability telling myself God likly is rational there likly is no reason I have to worry about anything if anything my beliefs are correct I consider how God exists in truth and in depth.

How in the end am I going to consider reading the bible.
I haven't touched a bible in about 5 or 6 months. At that time I was wanting to believe it fully or at least take it as I wanted.
When I come back to it I will still have faith in it.
But I feel like I am losing a certain love. Like I need some advice. What is happening with me does it look like.

I don't mean to get really uuber personal with you.
But I don't know how I should feel about this.

...Does anyone have any similar thoughts in the matter? :(

Don't be down, you have to understand the bible was written by man and is flawed. Just because the bible or any other scriptures have faults and contradictions does not mean it goes against gods existence. just look around at the earth and look up at the universe at night, you will see how everything makes sense. Don't let negative people taint your perception of how amazing existence and life is, you will always come across people who want to take your faith away and try to make you believe the universe is a cold place with no meaning. Try to help those people see the beauty of life, when a person throws negative energy at you throw some positive energy back at them. Words in books are not whats important the universe you are surrounded by can teach you a whole lot more.


I think god exists when I look at everything in the universe I see that it is not random chance. Nothing is completely random everything has a cause which leads to an effect, something has always existed you cannot get 1 from 0. people will try to make you explain god with hard evidence, that is because they require that evidence and they seek that evidence. Don't take life too seriously and become bitter with hate, there is logic in gods existence I was raised an Atheist untill my late teens where I became Daoist, I do believe in God now But I am still a daoist. I guess I just found the way now and im actualy happy Im not religious though but I do think a God created this universe.

I came to the conclusion God exists despite being raised as an Atheist, don't worry enjoy your time here on earth don't waste your time being negative. The most bitter people I know are Atheists I don't wish that on anybody its a hard way to live, and the most dangerous people are religious extreamists, be careful straying too far to the left or the right of the spectrum can harm you and others.


Look at the way theists and atheiss battle and fight over gods existence, that is not wise.

peace.

[Medicine*Woman]

How can anyone look at Barack Obama and say with a straight face that God exists?

*************
M*W: I get it, I think. When I listen to his words, though, I'm convinced that there is no god. Why does he have so many?