what is the point of geniusness?

Discussion in 'Human Science' started by Agent@5, Jun 24, 2002.

  1. Agent@5 Registered Senior Member

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    I started reading 'a beautifil mind' last night, and it got me thinking who are these so called geniusess? What makes them so much more advanced than the rest of humanity. Can anyone achieve this? Or is it somehting that is 'natural'..... what do you think?
     
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  3. Firefly Registered Senior Member

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    Higher IQ?
     
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  5. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    Most of what I've read suggests that intelligence is partially natural and partially instilled at youth. What is genius? There's another thread on this somewhere. Basically, genius is the ability to interput, comprehend, relate and communicate complex ideas in a simple, efficient manner.
     
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  7. Bebelina kospla.com Valued Senior Member

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    Intelligence....there are so many kinds of it. I saw a program on tv the other day about children with different disorders as aspergers and children with low logical iq, and they are quite the opposite of eachother. The autistic children( autism is ten times more common among boys than girls) had almost none understanding of emotions, their emotional iq was very low, but their logical and mathematical iq was often very high. With the other children it was the opposite, they had very low mathematical iq, but very high emotional iq, and were very social and empathic.
    Also they said that many of the autistic children had scientists as parents, which often showed autistic tendencies themselves.
    So maybe a very high mathemathical iq is at the cost of a low emotional iq, and vice versa. "Normal" people have about the same amount of both.
    So what we call geniouses are actually emotionally dysfunctional human beings, to put it bluntly.

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  8. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    I think genius traits are a matter of degree of application and ability to gather and retain info.

    Another thought is that genius ability is not necessarily permanent. Sometimes a child tests as being a genius only to lose it later in life. Others have lost that ability at different stages of age. Yet some have maintained it throughout their lifespan. I guess what I am saying is that it is not a stable trait in all cases.

    Another thought on the subject is that it has been found sometimes that someone who is called an idiot salvant may have the ability to do large sums in their head yet have problems with tying their shoes. It shows that we have a long ways to go to understand all of humans’ capabilities and what triggers those aptitudes.

    I like the way Bebelina put it, "emotionally dysfunctional human beings."

    Nothing is free without some kind of trade off. Even here I suspect this is a rule. Soemthing some where is given up to gain the ability.
     
  9. Mr. G reality.sys Valued Senior Member

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    Extant genius is the Universe's means of reminding consensus opinion it's nothing more than pedestrian conformity.
     
  10. Chagur .Seeker. Registered Senior Member

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    Hmm ...

    I think Robert Oppenheim said it best:

    "Genius is the answer, before the question."

    Take care

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  11. Agent@5 Registered Senior Member

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    nah, i still dotn get it.... do you think there are geniusess in all species?
     
  12. Bebelina kospla.com Valued Senior Member

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    Yes, or at least my cats think so.
    We have geniouses to reminds us that the benefits of diversity is what drives the human evolution( and other species) forward.
    Mathemathical geniouses are often those who drives the technological evolution forward.

     
  13. Xenu BBS Whore Registered Senior Member

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    I don't think geniusness is a thing that you are or you aren't, it's more of a degree. Also it's culturally defined. On top of that there are many layers of intelligence. There are intelligences that most people don't recognize or refuse to recognize. Such as emotional intelligence, interpersonal intelligence, intrapersonal intelligence. You may be a genius in these areas and may not even know it.

    There is one thing that mystifies me: photographic memory. When I hear about such people it just seems that they have to have just a completely different wiring of the brain or something. Maybe I think this just because my memory is so shitty.

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  14. Joeman Eviiiiiiiil Clown Registered Senior Member

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    That would be me. I don't have a lot of pure brain power but I can flat out memorize. I believe there are many kinds of intelligence. Some people in school think I am a genius since I get A's with ease. I have extremely good memory so I can regurgitate everything during an exam, but I am pretty average in analytical ability and thinking speed. A lot of geniuses I know lack common sense.

    To excel in all types of intelligence has to be almost statistically impossible.
     
  15. Riomacleod Registered Senior Member

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    Generally speaking, genius has to do with being able to apply the knowledge that you have to new situations, in order to come up with new things. It's not simple memorization, although someone who has memorized things will appear to be as much of a genius as someone who synthesizes information, there will be ways to tell, generally by putting them into unfamiliar situations or situations which don't exactly conform to the memorizer's knowledge.

    I have a terrible memory, so I got through physics, math, and chemistry by re-deriving any equation I needed from the main equation set. It used to really piss off the people in my class.

    I don't, however, think it's culturally defined. Unless you mean that certain cultures select for geniuses like other cultures select for prettiness or ability to kill an elephant or hunt deer or plow fields. If you look at the revolutionary minds of the ages, they were all brilliant men who were usually underappreciated in their time, at least considered kooky. Franklin, Da vinci, and Tessla all come to mind as certified kooks during their times (A death ray? Come on!).

    Usually it's not the strict logicians who become the great creators either. It seems to always wind up being the people who can make fantastic jumps of logic from one set of ideas to a completely new one without having to waste their time plodding through the muck of every individual derivation.
     
  16. kmguru Staff Member

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    11,757
    what is the point of geniusness?

    To procreate like everybody else. If there is a journey, we dont know yet where we are going.....
     
  17. nitetrax Registered Member

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    Hi, I'm new here, but couldn't resist this topic.

    My 5-year-old son is an autistic savant. He began reading at age two. He taught himself to read and do simple math and tell time at age three. At four he could name the capitol and currency of any country in the world. He can even do this for countries I had never heard of before. It's an amazing talent that appeared quite suddenly about a month ago (just before his fifth birthday) while on a camping trip.

    He was deprived of his computer and toys. I suspect he was bored and began reciting these facts to entertain himself.

    He now answers geography questions on request and recites countries by continent, island groups and highest points for fun.

    Unfortunately, he can't yet carry on a conversation. And he would have trouble telling you his home address.

    Neurologists theorize that the superior functioning of savants in certain areas is caused by compensation for cognitive delays in other parts of the brain. This makes sense to me. Einstein didn't speak until age four. Apparently there were more important things going on up there than communication with other people.

    My son would much rather spend his time on a computer, or with a clock, map or globe than another person.

    If you ask an aspie (Asperger's Syndrome) they'll tell you that autism is the evolution of intelligence. I don't know about that. I do know it's a very different form of intelligence.

    The point to this type of genius -- or any type of genius for that matter -- is to evolve. JMO.

    I believe if the wheel hadn't yet been invented, then my son Boone would have invented it.

    Here's my son's website, which I posted on another sig here. I think those interested in this thread will enjoy it:

    http://home.isoa.net/~nitetrax/bart.htm
     
  18. kmguru Staff Member

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    Very interesting.

    Highly unlikely. Neurologists rarely understand information theory and decision matrix and backpropagation in a multidimensional landscape.

    Anyway...your work is cutout for you...good luck...
     
  19. nitetrax Registered Member

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    I don't know what you consider unlikely -- that there is compensation for brain injury (cognitive delays) -- or that neurologists would understand the theory itself.

    Anyway, all I know of what neurologists, neuropsychologists, developmental pediatricians, psychiatrists (and all the other specialists my son has seen) understand is what I've read and been told. This is the popular theory among professionals in the field.

    Nobody has ever mentioned "emotional dysfunction" as a cause of his autism or his uneven intellectual development (genius). Autism is not an emotional disorder. It's a neurological disorder.

    Here's the common opinion:
    http://www.wisconsinmedicalsociety.org/savant/islands.cfm
    Theories to explain Savant Syndrome include eidetic imagery, inherited skills, concrete thinking and inability to think abstractly, compensation & reinforcement, and left brain injury with right brain compensation. Newer findings on cerebral lateralization, and some imaging and other studies that do show left hemisphere damage in savants, suggest that the most plausible explanation for Savant Syndrome to be left brain damage from pre-natal, peri-natal or post-natal CNS damage with migratory, right brain compensation, coupled with corresponding damage to higher level, cognitive (cortico-limbic) memory circuitry with compensatory take over of lower level, habit (cortical-striatal) memory. This accounts for the linking of predominately right brain skills with habit memory so characteristic of Savant Syndrome (Treffert, 1989).
     
  20. kmguru Staff Member

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    Both - Cognitive delays should not be confused with matrix processing on multivariable data elements. Also it should not have anything to do with superior functioning of savants in certain areas.

    Just a layperson's POV, the human brain works similar to a fault tolerant MPP computer system but several order better. Now, a delay in data processing would make a system work only slower...they have to come up with a new word to explain that.

    There is no basic course work for a person who does postgraduate work in neuroscience in the area of Information Processing. Otherwise, we would have already built an Artificial Intelligent machine by now with so much DARPA money available. So the theory even eludes the core Information Technologists - and neuroscientists are in the fringe area.


    It is like blind leading the blind. Have ever heard of six blind men describing an elephant? All I am saying is that our latest medical knowledge is still lacking (severely I might add) in this area. It is much easier to understand how proteins function or how specific chemical do their thing in a basic biochemistry science - but when it comes to the information processing in the brain, the best out there is still in the dark ages....

    Neither have I. Many years ago, my son (his recorded IQ at 167)had some developmental problems. I saw a neurologists, and a neuropsychologists on the recommendation of his Pediatrician. I did a lot of research on the subject ( I do have a background in neuroscience and information science) after spending many thousnad dollars for tests and finally concluded that it is a science of the blind leading the blind. Not much has changed since. So consider my posting as my rants....nothing personal....

    BTW - my son is doing great.
     
  21. nitetrax Registered Member

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    kmguru,

    It's true enough that it's all hypothesis and none of the theories are proven.

    I recently read an article that gives some credence to the theory, however. I will post it later if I can find it again.

    It was about a young girl who had half her brain removed due to a brain infection. The "language center" of her brain was sacrificed to save her life. According to the article she has since recovered, is of normal intelligence and speaks two languages. The article mentions "compensation" as a possible explanation.

    The brain tissue project at MCG in Augusta is looking into the "wiring" theory. They are working on the theory that savants have more neurotransmitters than neuro-typicals. This would not explain savants with brain injury after birth or alzheimers patients who suddenly develop artistic skills they never had before.

    I'm glad to hear your son is doing well. I have very high expectations for my son too.

    To answer the original question posted here, physicist Alan Snyder believes the savant talent is latent in all of us. Here's an article:
    http://www.discover.com/feb_02/gthere.html?article=featsavant.html

    The Inner Savant
    Are you capable of multiplying 147,631,789 by 23,674 in your head, instantly?
    Physicist Allan Snyder says you probably can, based on his new theory about the origin of the extraordinary skills of autistic savants
    By Douglas S. Fox
    Photography by James Smolka


    "If the human mind was simple enough to understand,
    we'd be too simple to understand it." ~Emerson Pugh
     
  22. Popcorn8636 Registered Senior Member

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    I don’t believe that one kind of genius is at the cost of another. Just because a person is mathematically smart, doesn’t mean that they are emotionally challenged. I believe that DNA is responsible for our strengths and weaknesses. The key to genius lies somewhere in it’s code, making different parts of our brain stronger than the next.

    Besides, don’t you think the world would be a lot more different if it was divided into smart, emotionally challenged people, and not-as-smart, emotionally reasonable people?
     
  23. nitetrax Registered Member

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    This isn't the case in every instance, obviously. It is the case in many notable instances, however. It's certainly not uncommon and it's difficult ignore when you see it.

    No. I don't think it would be much different from the way it is now.
    Most people have their own unique neuroses. Some are just better at hiding it than others.
     

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