Who here is fearful their children will become atheist/theist/Scientologist/Mormonist

[Betrayer0fHope]

Anyone? Seems quite irrational to me.

[11parcal]

My children can do what they want with their religion but they need to respect the fact that other people may not believe what they do, all in all I don't have as much of a problem with religion's morals but I have a problem with religious ceremonies, wars and what not, they can do what they want, just leave me out of it

[one_raven]

I will encourage my children to find their own belief system, as I did, and support their choices as well as I can.
I have to be honest, though, if my child elects to be a member of a religion I will feel like a failure.

[CheskiChips]

I will encourage my children to find their own belief system, as I did, and support their choices as well as I can.
I have to be honest, though, if my child elects to be a member of a religion I will feel like a failure.

Raven you can barely support a statement. You've convinced yourself you can.

[one_raven]

Raven you can barely support a statement. You've convinced yourself you can.

Please elaborate.

[Betrayer0fHope]

Alright let me tell you guys a bit more about what I think about this. I will avidly debate with my child who believes this and constantly try to change what he believes, but only by logic, and by no other means. I will talk to him as if he is a good friend, and the debate will purely for knowing what he thinks. I am not fearful, nor will I be angry if my child does choose religion, though.

[Bells]

Alright let me tell you guys a bit more about what I think about this. I will avidly debate with my child who believes this and constantly try to change what he believes, but only by logic, and by no other means. I will talk to him as if he is a good friend, and the debate will purely for knowing what he thinks. I am not fearful, nor will I be angry if my child does choose religion, though.

Why would you want to? It's their life and their choice. As an atheist, I would never want to force my beliefs (or lack of) on my children, like Catholicism was forced on me as a child. I would rather they believe in something or nothing, so long as they are happy in their choice. And I can assure you, if either or both of my children grew up to be theists, it would not really bother me if they found happiness in believing in 'God' and as long as they believed out of their own free will.

I wouldn't want my children to feel that I was disappointed in them for what they choose to believe in. Nor would I try to change their minds. That is something they need to discover for themselves and if they choose to believe, then it is entirely their choice and I would support them no matter what.

[JDawg]

I'm with everyone else (except Cheski, who has proven himself to be a useless prick with nothing of value to add to any discussion) in that I don't fear my children becoming theists (or atheists). Whatever works for them is fine by me.

But, since you put it in the title...I would bring my child behind the shed and beat him or her bloody if he or she became a Scientologist.

[cosmictraveler]

Anyone? Seems quite irrational to me.

Since I have no children of my own , I'm not concerned.

[w1z4rd]

Personally.. if I catch scientologists sniffing around my kids, I swear Ill get the gun out. I dont mind Islam, Christianity, Mormonism.. my kid can even become Amish or Jewish. Anything but Scientology. It kills families.

[Medicine*Woman]

I will encourage my children to find their own belief system, as I did, and support their choices as well as I can. I have to be honest, though, if my child elects to be a member of a religion I will feel like a failure.
*************
M*W: I sympathize with your feelings. I raised my children as catholics, and at the time, I told them that was the right thing to do. They accepted it, because they trusted in me that I was telling them the truth. I regret bringing them up in a religion that I now think is inherently wrong (christianity). My children are all grown up, now, and the elder two are christians, but the younger two are not. The younger two appreciate what I tell them about atheism. The elder two fear for my salvation! In any event, the elder two never step foot in a church, but I think they have an innate fear of no salvation. I don't pressure them into my belief/non-belief systems. It is kinda hard to do that since I crammed christianity down their throats and later regretted it. Ultimately, they have to find their own path, and it may not be the one I'm on. All that means is that they are still searching for the truth. Someday they may find it.

[Medicine*Woman]

Personally.. if I catch scientologists sniffing around my kids, I swear Ill get the gun out. I dont mind Islam, Christianity, Mormonism. my kid can even become Amish or Jewish. Anything but Scientology. It kills families.
*************
M*W: I don't know that much about Scientology, but why do you think it "kills families?" From what little I've read, Scientology builds up the individual ego, so I can see where that would be a problem. Who can live with a person with a big ego?

I refuse to see anymore Tom Cruise movies, because he came out as a public nutcase. Same goes for Nicolas Cage. His recent movie is the biggest flop in five-years. I thought Scientology was supposed to improve its members lives! Lisa Marie Presley is another one.

I even have a recent convert to Scientology in my own family (a nephew).

I thought it was interesting that you said Scientology "kills families." Please explain.

[Syzygys]

Here is the smart approach:

I would be happy if my children became Mormons, assuming they are following the practice correctly. What parents wouldn't want a teenager who is non-drinking, not doing drugs and says no to sex??? :)

Now of course when they reach 18-20, I would sit down with them and say:

"Look son...." :m:

[S.A.M.]

I will encourage my children to find their own belief system, as I did, and support their choices as well as I can.
I have to be honest, though, if my child elects to be a member of a religion I will feel like a failure.

I'd probably feel like that if my children were atheist.

[lucifers angel]

Anyone? Seems quite irrational to me.

i ahve three kids and i will be proud of them whatever they decide to belive in, allbeit, becoming a mormon (which may i add, most of our family members allready are)

if they dont want to belive then thats also up to them, has long has they are informed enough to make such choices

[Betrayer0fHope]

Why would you want to? It's their life and their choice. As an atheist, I would never want to force my beliefs (or lack of) on my children, like Catholicism was forced on me as a child. I would rather they believe in something or nothing, so long as they are happy in their choice. And I can assure you, if either or both of my children grew up to be theists, it would not really bother me if they found happiness in believing in 'God' and as long as they believed out of their own free will.

I wouldn't want my children to feel that I was disappointed in them for what they choose to believe in. Nor would I try to change their minds. That is something they need to discover for themselves and if they choose to believe, then it is entirely their choice and I would support them no matter what.

Someone is bound to try to change their mind, but now that you mention it I will be sure to tell them I am not sure of anything, and that the choice is still theirs, and that whatever they choose I will understand. If I tell my parents now I supported the Holocaust, they'd probably ask me to explain myself. I someone feel like I can compare this to religion, but I realize how extreme of an example this is.

[spidergoat]

I'm so fearful I refuse to have kids.

[whitewolf]

I want my kids to grow up into good adults. I wouldn't want my kids to become like S.A.M. Is that a good answer?

[Norsefire]

No. If I had children, I'd teach them something like Confucianism or Taoism growing up, and allow them to choose their own religion.

[Orleander]

I dwell on this. My daughter is a very dedicated believer and I dread the day she finds out I don't believe. I don't want my atheism affecting her decision. I want her to come around to it naturally like my son did.

I can just imagine future holidays though. Especially if she becomes a minister or a missionary.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

I'm most fearful that my children will have blind faith in anything. I do my best to teach them to question, question, question, make a decision, then question some more. I'm not afraid of them becoming anything in particular, though if they become members of hate groups of some kind, I'd find this disconcerting.

[Norsefire]

Mr. Hamtastic, if you question, question, question your religion, you'd be an atheist.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Norsefire-Not at all. I do question my religion. Everyday. God is no less for being questioned. I believe God gave us free will because he wants us to choose to believe in him. Thus, I am a theist, albeit a thinking one. :)

[Norsefire]

If we approach God with the scientific method, we can conclude that there is no reason to believe in one.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Religion is not meant to prove science, nor vice versa. Science answers alot of specific "how" questions. Philosophy, Religion answer "why" questions. Applying the scientific method to God is much like trying to measure freedom with a protractor. It's silly.

[Norsefire]

Religion is not meant to prove science, nor vice versa. Science answers alot of specific "how" questions. Philosophy, Religion answer "why" questions. Applying the scientific method to God is much like trying to measure freedom with a protractor. It's silly.

The "why" answers are based on claims; claims have to be proven (or disproven). For instance, the claim that God exists.

[Orleander]

soooo Norse, what religion are you today?

[nietzschefan]

I see the word "fear" connected with religion a lot. It is NOT a coincidence.

[Norsefire]

soooo Norse, what religion are you today?

Christian.

[Orleander]

I will encourage my children to find their own belief system, as I did, and support their choices as well as I can.
I have to be honest, though, if my child elects to be a member of a religion I will feel like a failure.

can you imagine if they became scientologists? I would just die!

[Kadark]

If my children become atheists, I will disown them.

It's as simple as that.


Kadark

[Mr. Hamtastic]

fine norsefire. Allow me to posit a question for you. Why is blue?

[Norsefire]

fine norsefire. Allow me to posit a question for you. Why is blue?

Why is blue what? Why is blue blue? There is a reason to that, a scientific one.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Nono, you misunderstand. For what purpose is blue?

[Norsefire]

Nono, you misunderstand. For what purpose is blue?

Does everything need a purpose?

[Mr. Hamtastic]

That is a good question. Does it?

[Norsefire]

That is a good question. Does it?

I don't think anything needs a purpose, an objective purpose.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

So why is science? It has no distinct survival purpose, we'd be just as survivable if we wore animal skins and lived nomadically.

[Norsefire]

So why is science? It has no distinct survival purpose, we'd be just as survivable if we wore animal skins and lived nomadically.
Science does have a purpose, one that we fulfill by merely existing. Understanding the natural world.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

So: Why is science? Because we exist. That seems nonsensical to me. A nonanswer. Do you have a better one?

[Michael]

When I create a brood - something I am greatly looking forward to. I am going to push my children into becoming polytheists :) I will take them on walks into the mountains and we will worship the local water and mountain gods and goddesses. If they find this beleif ridiculous later in life and decide to become atheists, then that's their choice.

[James R]

If my children become atheists, I will disown them.

It's as simple as that.

Sounds like they might be better off without you anyway.

[Kadark]

Sounds like they might be better off without you anyway.

Blood is thicker than water.


Kadark

[Syzygys]

My kid is most likely an atheist out of laziness. How good is that? :)

[James R]

Blood is thicker than water.

You're inconsistent. You said you'd disown them.

So, which is it?

[Kadark]

You're inconsistent. You said you'd disown them.

So, which is it?

They need me more than I need them.

The choice is theirs, is it not?


Kadark

[Michael]

They need me more than I need them.

The choice is theirs, is it not?


KadarkWhen you're an old man, you might find things differently.

Just accept your kids WILL be atheists. That's a FACT. It's going to happen. They don't want to worship some mumbo jumbo religous BS. No way.

They'll probably pretend they believe, just to make you happy, but in reality (without you ever knowing) they will be laughing at you with their friends. You will be the butt of their jokes.

Poor Kadark....

[James R]

They need me more than I need them.

The choice is theirs, is it not?

It's you doing the disowning, not them.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Kadark-with luck you will not spawn progeny. You are enough of a blight on civilization.

[Kadark]

When you're an old man, you might find things differently.

Just accept your kids WILL be atheists. That's a FACT. It's going to happen. They don't want to worship some mumbo jumbo religous BS. No way.

They'll probably pretend they believe, just to make you happy, but in reality (without you ever knowing) they will be laughing at you with their friends. You will be the butt of their jokes.

Poor Kadark....

Wow, you get stupider every time I have the displeasure of talking to you. Why are you so certain my kids (if I have any) will be atheists? Chances are, they won't be. There isn't a single atheist in my family, despite the fact that we're free to believe whatever we like. If my kids turn out to be anything like their father, they themselves will want to learn about their religion, history, and culture. Do you think I was taught religion by my parents? No. I researched it by myself, due to my yearning for knowledge. I learned to read a foreign language by myself at the age of twelve, all because of my motivation to read the Qur'an in its original language. I memorized pages of prayers in a language I had never before spoken, driven only by my personal thirst for religious knowledge. So, Michael, don't tell me that my kids will think of religion to be bullshit. Everything I know of religion is the result of my own hard work and will - not my parents' lectures. If you raise your children in the right environment, and introduce your religion to them in the way it's meant to be introduced, they will be religious, and they will be completely sincere about it.

Don't let me hear you talk such nonsense in the future.


Kadark

[Norsefire]

When you're an old man, you might find things differently.

Just accept your kids WILL be atheists. That's a FACT. It's going to happen. They don't want to worship some mumbo jumbo religous BS. No way.

They'll probably pretend they believe, just to make you happy, but in reality (without you ever knowing) they will be laughing at you with their friends. You will be the butt of their jokes.

Poor Kadark....

Why will they be atheists? I'm loving your predicting the future power over here and the evidence you're showing...oh wait

Religious BS? Ha, says the scientologist!

[CheskiChips]

Wow, you get stupider every time I have the displeasure of talking to you. Why are you so certain my kids (if I have any) will be atheists? Chances are, they won't be. There isn't a single atheist in my family, despite the fact that we're free to believe whatever we like. If my kids turn out to be anything like their father, they themselves will want to learn about their religion, history, and culture. Do you think I was taught religion by my parents? No. I researched it by myself, due to my yearning for knowledge. I learned to read a foreign language by myself at the age of twelve, all because of my motivation to read the Qur'an in its original language. I memorized pages of prayers in a language I had never before spoken, driven only by my personal thirst for religious knowledge. So, Michael, don't tell me that my kids will think of religion to be bullshit. Everything I know of religion is the result of my own hard work and will - not my parents' lectures. If you raise your children in the right environment, and introduce your religion to them in the way it's meant to be introduced, they will be religious, and they will be completely sincere about it.

Don't let me hear you talk such nonsense in the future.


Kadark

Car, dark.

[Bells]

I'd probably feel like that if my children were atheist.

Why?

I really don't get the whole "my children must be believe in this or that or I'll be a failure as a parent" thing. Your children will be who they are. If they are theists, they are theists. If they are atheists, they are atheists. It is their choice and their path. All that should matter is that they are not arseholes but caring and fine individuals.. As a parent who is an atheist, I really do not care if my children become theists or atheists. It is entirely their choice and I refuse to allow anyone to pressure them either way. I care most about their happiness, their health and trying to bring them up to be fine, thinking and respectful individuals who aren't arseholes.

[Norsefire]

Religion is such a useful tool for teaching family values. I don't want my children to be crazy drug using liberals.

[OilIsMastery]

If I ever have kids God-willing, I'm not afraid they will become any of those things. I will teach my kids Aristotle, Physics and Metaphysics, and the a priori scientific law of cause and effect. Thus my kids will know there was a First Cause that caused the Big Bang.

I will also teach my kids Kant and Heisenberg.

"The use of these concepts, including space, time and causality, is in fact the condition for observing atomic events and is, in this sense of the word, 'a priori'." -- Werner Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy

"When we make an experiment we have to assume a causal chain of events that leads from the atomic event through the apparatus finally to the eye of the observer; if this causal chain was not assumed, nothing could be known about the atomic event." -- Werner Heisenberg, Physics and Philosophy

[one_raven]

Why?

I really don't get the whole "my children must be believe in this or that or I'll be a failure as a parent" thing. Your children will be who they are.

Because I want them to be critical thinkers who do not buy into groupthink, aplogies and justifcation.
I want my child to be happy - that's most important.
I would just as disappointed in myself, though, if my child were someone who was a political party loyalist.

[Norsefire]

Religion makes plenty of people happy.

[one_raven]

Religion makes plenty of people happy.

So does Prozac - what's your point?

[11parcal]

Wow, you get stupider every time I have the displeasure of talking to you. Why are you so certain my kids (if I have any) will be atheists? Chances are, they won't be. There isn't a single atheist in my family, despite the fact that we're free to believe whatever we like. If my kids turn out to be anything like their father, they themselves will want to learn about their religion, history, and culture. Do you think I was taught religion by my parents? No. I researched it by myself, due to my yearning for knowledge. I learned to read a foreign language by myself at the age of twelve, all because of my motivation to read the Qur'an in its original language. I memorized pages of prayers in a language I had never before spoken, driven only by my personal thirst for religious knowledge. So, Michael, don't tell me that my kids will think of religion to be bullshit. Everything I know of religion is the result of my own hard work and will - not my parents' lectures. If you raise your children in the right environment, and introduce your religion to them in the way it's meant to be introduced, they will be religious, and they will be completely sincere about it.

Don't let me hear you talk such nonsense in the future.


Kadark

Hmmm... obviously we searched in different places, Kadark, I basically found my atheistic lack of belief in the same way you found your theism

[11parcal]

So does Prozac - what's your point?

And to add to that I guarantee Prozac has caused much less death than religion

[James R]

Religion is such a useful tool for teaching family values.

So are nursery rhymes and Sesame Street.

I don't want my children to be crazy drug using liberals.

Do you have any evidence at all that "liberals" are more likely to be crazy or use drugs, compared to your fine upstanding conservative types?

I thought not.

[one_raven]

Sesame Street.

That's where I learned them.

[Betrayer0fHope]

Kadark makes it seem like his children being like him would be a good thing.. :rolleyes:

[Michael]

Why will they be atheists? I'm loving your predicting the future power over here and the evidence you're showing...oh wait

Religious BS? Ha, says the scientologist!Oh the joy .... may Xenu's blessing follow Ron Hubbard (PBUH) into the next life where he will be reborn as Kadark's son :p

Wow, you get stupider every time I have the displeasure of talking to you. Why are you so certain my kids (if I have any) will be atheists? Chances are, they won't be. There isn't a single atheist in my family, despite the fact that we're free to believe whatever we like. If my kids turn out to be anything like their father, they themselves will want to learn about their religion, history, and culture. Do you think I was taught religion by my parents? No. I researched it by myself, due to my yearning for knowledge. I learned to read a foreign language by myself at the age of twelve, all because of my motivation to read the Qur'an in its original language. I memorized pages of prayers in a language I had never before spoken, driven only by my personal thirst for religious knowledge. So, Michael, don't tell me that my kids will think of religion to be bullshit. Everything I know of religion is the result of my own hard work and will - not my parents' lectures. If you raise your children in the right environment, and introduce your religion to them in the way it's meant to be introduced, they will be religious, and they will be completely sincere about it. You're too easy.

Some people are more inclined to learn about truth than about fiction.

M

[w1z4rd]

*************
M*W: I don't know that much about Scientology, but why do you think it "kills families?" From what little I've read, Scientology builds up the individual ego, so I can see where that would be a problem. Who can live with a person with a big ego?

You do need to get more information MW. Several reasons. Have a look at a BBC Panorama documentary called "Scientology and Me". It shows how Scientology people are pulled away from their families and told not to interact with them.

I write in a popular blog, and I swear, two days ago, I had a mom email me. Really really distraught. I live in South Africa.. this woman was also from South Africa, but several years ago her son had being sent to Clearwater in the US. She has not heard from him since then. She is trying to find an organisation that will help her get her son back.

Scientologists are informed to break all ties with non-scientology people ( disconnects) or SP`s (Suppresive person... which is anyone critical in the slightest of scientology).. also see my next link I will be posting in this section.

I refuse to see anymore Tom Cruise movies, because he came out as a public nutcase. Same goes for Nicolas Cage. His recent movie is the biggest flop in five-years. I thought Scientology was supposed to improve its members lives! Lisa Marie Presley is another one.

I even have a recent convert to Scientology in my own family (a nephew).

I thought it was interesting that you said Scientology "kills families." Please explain.

Say goodbye to him. Seriously. The deeper he gets, the more the chance is he will never be seen again by his family. Seriously watch that documentary I mention.. it shows what families have gone through with this cult.

Scientology has a "Disconnect Policy" which they help enforce with their "Fair game" tenents.

This google result brought up a lot of results: http://www.google.co.za/search?rlz=1C1GGLS_enZA291&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8&q=scientology+breaks+up+families

Also contact Mark Bunker on Youtube, he has done a lot of work on their cult.

[pjdude1219]

If my kids(when i have them) become scientolgists they will either recant or be disowned. I don't mind religion but Scientology isn't a religion its a scam to make money.

[w1z4rd]

MW.. here is that email I got from that concerned mother:

donve to legal
show details Aug 31 (9 days ago)

Reply

Hi there
Do you know of any exit counsellors/organisations in South Africa that assist in getting Scientology members out of the cult? My son has been in the US, at the Clearwater Florida headquarters, I haven't seen him since he left the country in 2005. My only contact over the last few years has been a few phone calls. I'm desperate. Any leads will be appreciated.
I look forward to hearing from you
Donvé ****, Cape Town

[w1z4rd]

MW.. here is that email I got from that concerned mother:

donve to legal
show details Aug 31 (9 days ago)

Reply

Hi there
Do you know of any exit counsellors/organisations in South Africa that assist in getting Scientology members out of the cult? My son has been in the US, at the Clearwater Florida headquarters, I haven't seen him since he left the country in 2005. My only contact over the last few years has been a few phone calls. I'm desperate. Any leads will be appreciated.
I look forward to hearing from you
Donvé ****, Cape Town

[Kadark]

Oh the joy .... may Xenu's blessing follow Ron Hubbard (PBUH) into the next life where he will be reborn as Kadark's son :p

You're too easy.

Some people are more inclined to learn about truth than about fiction.

M

I'm sure you, Michael, of all people, know what the "truth" is. :rolleyes:

You're such an idiot.


Kadark

[Norsefire]

So are nursery rhymes and Sesame Street. They teach the morals, sure, but religion is a useful tool for coming up with them.

Do you have any evidence at all that "liberals" are more likely to be crazy or use drugs, compared to your fine upstanding conservative types?

I thought not.

Most of them probably are.

[sisyphus__]

Anyone? Seems quite irrational to me.

I like the question but I despise what you said:

Seems quite irrational to me

Yes. How on earth is fear irrational. Why is it irrational to be fearful that my child will be something that incites my fear. Why is it irrational to be fearful that I am fearful my child will be something I fear for him to be. Why is it fearful to be fearful of fear.

I swear to God. I would hate it if my child was preaching atheism at lunch tables or something. That is not irrational to hold. I would also hate it if I sat down for a minute and thought my son will become something bad. "Bad" is kind of hard to describe. I hope you understand what I mean. Good always is the best. I would hope my child would (well, not like I have the idea.. well I do have a girl who is already pregnant so I guess I do have the idea of what it's like to consider that.: ) not going to go forward into an outrageous position. It is best to keep things neutral or at least safe. Being "anything", example being dedicated to a cause, straight forward in their positions. I don't want to see anything overly dramatic. I would hope they retain a good stance, a stance which does not contain anything irrational as you call it.

Irrational would consist of holding obscene beliefe systems at early ages,

Irrational would consist of holding beliefs which do not match reality such as:

An atheistic position dedicated to atheism in which case that atheism fails to present an accurate stance in the position of truth.

What this "position of truth" actually in fact is is something which is wholy dependant upon him or her self. And I do hope that you would consider before you call people who call their sons or daughters fearful irrational hopless dumb bastards.

:mad:

[(Q)]

There isn't a single atheist in my family, despite the fact that we're free to believe whatever we like.

Until you threaten to disown them if they change their beliefs from your beliefs.


If you raise your children in the right environment, and introduce your religion to them in the way it's meant to be introduced, they will be religious, and they will be completely sincere about it.

Threatening to disown them is the "right environment?"

[Kadark]

Until you threaten to disown them if they change their beliefs from your beliefs.

Nobody in my family would do that other than me. Considering I have no kids, your argument is invalid.


Kadark

[(Q)]

I have no kids

:bravo::yay::worship:

[Michael]

I'm sure you, Michael, of all people, know what the "truth" is. :rolleyes:

You're such an idiot.


KadarkActually, you're not an idiot, Kadark. You have decent taste in video games, but, when it comes to religion you are somewhat brainwashed. not completely mind you.

Did you read the thread on the Syria-Aramaic reading of the Qur'an? What did you think? It's fitting better and better with the facts. I used to think that Mohammad was a Messianic Jew (and that still may be the case) but it seems more and more likely the if Mohammad had lived, he was a conservative Christian as well as he probably thought he was a Prophet. I wonder, supposing this is the truth, would you be happier living knowing it or just continuing to believe a fairytale about winged fairy creatures flying through split moons - that's really the main difference between you and I. I moved past those sorts of fantasies in my mid 20s. Perhaps you will too by your mid 20s?

If your truly interested in finding out the truth, then, you should read more archeology and use that to interpret your religious mythos.

[Michael]

Well I guess that answered that :p

[shorty_37]

I would be more fearful of them marrying someone with a different religion and their spouse or their family trying to pressure them into something.

Right now we don't talk much about religion in our house. It is not something I am overly concerned with right now. I have more important things to keep my mind busy like the getting through the teenage yrs and other issues like smoking, sex, drugs.

I am more concerned that they turn out to be good individuals with morals and respect for other ppl, not a bunch of hooligans.

[Norsefire]

Religion is an excellent way to ensure that they come out to be good people with morals and respect for others. How many respectful atheists have you met?

[shorty_37]

Are you saying religious ppl aren't corrupt? liars? They are all outstanding citizens?

So far my boys are really good. They have great manners and have never been in any serious trouble ever.
This is without any religious influences on them.

[Norsefire]

Are you saying religious ppl aren't corrupt? liars? They are all outstanding citizens?

If they abide by their religion, yes.

[shorty_37]

If they abide by their religion, yes.

HA HA! I have come across some real religious nuts in my time. You know what I found? They were the WORST when it came to being honest and are even downright rude. Even the kids that my son hangs around with, one is from a very religious background. His mom had me on the phone one night telling me his father is a preacher. I said really? because one of my neighbors complained to me that they heard your son swearing his head off on my street. She said what? my Johnathon? I said yes and I have personally heard him. She said well he knows better I am surprised because his father is a preacher. :rolleyes:

Funny thing is, even though this kid swears, I have never heard my son swear or had anybody tell me he is out and about swearing. Again we aren't religious, so I throw your theory out the window.

[CheskiChips]

HA HA! I have come across some real religious nuts in my time. You know what I found? They were the WORST when it came to being honest and are even downright rude. Even the kids that my son hangs around with, one is from a very religious background. His mom had me on the phone one night telling me his father is a preacher. I said really? because one of my neighbors complained to me that they heard your son swearing his head off on my street. She said what? my Johnathon? I said yes and I have personally heard him. She said well he knows better I am surprised because his father is a preacher. :rolleyes:

Funny thing is, even though this kid swears, I have never heard my son swear or had anybody tell me he is out and about swearing. Again we aren't religious, so I throw your theory out the window.

Christian churches are breeding grounds for sexual promiscuity, vulgarity, and light drug use. At least that's what it appears to be to me.

[Norsefire]

"if they abide by their religion", they wouldn't be swearing.

[shorty_37]

So how many ppl do you think REALLY abide to their religion? or their kids for that matter?
Or do they just going around preaching about their religion but they don't really follow it.

[CheskiChips]

So how many ppl do you think REALLY abide to their religion? or their kids for that matter?
Or do they just going around preaching about their religion but they don't really follow it.

In America, a good percentage of the Muslims, a decent percentage of the Jews and a small percentage of the Christians.

[(Q)]

So how many ppl do you think REALLY abide to their religion? or their kids for that matter?
Or do they just going around preaching about their religion but they don't really follow it.

None. If you actually looked at what was required from a religion, it would literally be impossible to follow it to the letter.

[Betrayer0fHope]

While in my limited searchings through religious texts, I can't really find any physically impossible things Islam, Judaism, or Christianity requires you to do. Although, I have yet to meet ONE person who follows one of those religions to the letter, mostly because they
"interpret" it completely different than me. And my interpretations are what the theologists tell me it is.

[Simon Anders]

Anyone? Seems quite irrational to me.I'm afraid my kids will think salvation comes through brand name products and will live their lives with a barely noticed terror that they do not have the right ones.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

I think people mistake religion for relationship. Judaism, Christianity, both can be summed up by one verse in their respective bibles-

He has shown you oh man what is good, and what does the Lord require of you but to do justly, to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.-Micah 6:8

Not,"and the lord said, lo, thou shalt use the fork that is second from the left on tuesday for vanilla pudding, but on wednesday you shall drive a rocket powered car through the everglades chasing wild monkeys who bear alms of tarantula liver pate." I entertain myself by pointing out to some "theologians" that this verse seems to be what Jesus was most up in arms about. God tries to keep things simple, because we are pretty muttonheaded creatures. Then we have a lovely crop of "theologians" come along who inundate us with unnecessary rules and regulations. Pfeh.

Sorry, I didn't mean to preach.:soapbox:

[Betrayer0fHope]

Thought you left?

[Mr. Hamtastic]

I changed my mind. I do that. I am unstable you know, and prone to anything. Perhaps I'm sitting in your neighborhood in my car with my pants around my ankles and a laptop in the passenger seat, while I peer through binoculars at you.

Then again, perhaps not.

Truffle?

[Betrayer0fHope]

Shuffle!!!!!!!!!!

But I don't get what that has to do with the thread topic.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

what topic? I thought we were dancing.

[Hapsburg]

Anyone? Seems quite irrational to me.
When/if I have children, I would encourage them to think for themselves and find their own beliefs. My parents did so with me, and I turned out fine. I chose my religious beliefs, and was not forced into them at all. If you force a kid into something, they are that much more likely to turn away from it and retain a spiteful sense of anger towards the parent for imposing it.

[Orleander]

But what if they wanted to join something like Heaven's Gate? Or join Jim Jones' church?

[Simon Anders]

What if my children become Neo-cons?

[Norsefire]

Q, that isn't true at all. In the scripture, which I really don't like, but I'll use anyway, you have to discern between seperate things:

a. the moral law
b. the civil law


The moral law hasn't changed throughout the ages, and doesn't change; the civil law, however, can change according to society. For instance, stealing is wrong. Stealing has always been wrong and likely will remain wrong. The moral law, therefore, does not change.

The civil law has changed; in previous times, stealing was punishable by death or some other punishment (which isn't necessarily bad for people that continue stealing); today, they are imprisoned and "rehabilitated"

[Hapsburg]

But what if they wanted to join something like Heaven's Gate? Or join Jim Jones' church?
Anomalies. There are exceptions to every rule.

Nevertheless, I implied strongly that I would instruct them on how to notice the difference between a dangerous cult and a small religious denomination, and act accordingly for their safety and well-being. Something like Heaven's Gate was patently off the wall and dangerous, and so it would be recognized quickly as such.

[Betrayer0fHope]

So what are the guidelines of which you will interfere with your child's right to the pursuit of happiness?

[Medicine*Woman]

Christian churches are breeding grounds for sexual promiscuity, vulgarity, and light drug use. At least that's what it appears to be to me.
*************
M*W: You are so right! This is especially true of preachers' kids.

[Betrayer0fHope]

That seems like just a thing in the movies, but seriously the preachers daughter or the kids with the notoriously hard parents are always the loosest.

[Medicine*Woman]

So how many ppl do you think REALLY abide to their religion? or their kids for that matter? Or do they just going around preaching about their religion but they don't really follow it.
*************
M*W: I think most of them claim to be religious or a member of a particular religious organization, but they think that is the more PC way to identify themselves. Most Americans probably claim to be christian, but it's a facade that is fading into the sunset.

[Mr. Hamtastic]

Shockingly, I have met one, exactly one, person who claimed christianity, then showed otherwise. I have met many christians who are an embarassment to the rest of us. I've met some who have struck me down with awe in their depth of faith. I'm afraid that it is not a facade that is fading. I'm afraid that you are just closed to other ideas that are not your own. Where I see a church full of believers, you see a church full of people acting. I hurt for you, MW.

[Kadark]

Well I guess that answered that :p

Don't get antsy. The only reason I didn't reply to your post is because I was banned at the time.

I wonder, supposing this is the truth, would you be happier living knowing it or just continuing to believe a fairytale about winged fairy creatures flying through split moons - that's really the main difference between you and I.

Well, in order for me to even consider such a scenario, you'd have to convince me somehow that Muhammad was either a "Messianic Jew" or a "conservative Christian", using the "archaeological sources" you so frequently quote.

I moved past those sorts of fantasies in my mid 20s. Perhaps you will too by your mid 20s?

I doubt it. My beliefs are reinforced with life experience; the closest I came to resolutely eschewing these so-called "fantasies" was during my adolescence.

If your truly interested in finding out the truth, then, you should read more archeology and use that to interpret your religious mythos.

I would never be arrogant enough to claim I know the "truth". If you were to ask me who, of the two of us, was closer to reaching such a concept, I'd choose myself.

But hey, that's just my opinion ...


Kadark