Celibacy .

[mike47]

As a man I enjoy and appreciate sex very much . It is one of life most interesting aspect . The Catholic church does not allow its priests to get married or to engage in sexual activities . Unless you are sick , it is hard to abstain from sex . Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . I think celibacy is just another religion crap that has no meaning at all . It is against nature will . If we all practice celibacy it will be the end of the world .

[CutsieMarie89]

I believe it relates to Jesus supposedly being celibate his entire life and the priest are emulating him and the nuns are married to God so unless God comes to them in person then they can't have sex with anyone else because that would be adultery. I myself didn't find celibacy so difficult back when I was in high school, but the idea doesn't sit well with me either anymore. It would be very difficult.

[PsychoticEpisode]

I've practiced celibacy at least a 1000 times. Wasn't too difficult.

[Eidolan]

I've practiced celibacy at least a 1000 times. Wasn't too difficult.

Um....................k ?

[lightgigantic]

As a man I enjoy and appreciate sex very much .
most people do


It is one of life most interesting aspect .
it also gets a mention in marshall's analysis of economy too

The Catholic church does not allow its priests to get married or to engage in sexual activities .
why do you suppose that is?


Unless you are sick , it is hard to abstain from sex .
Therefore there are many prerequisites for accepting such a life - accepting sex as life's most interesting aspect is obviously not one of them.

Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour .
And many, many, many more weren't

I think celibacy is just another religion crap that has no meaning at all . It is against nature will .
Have you ever wondered what perspective a celibate person might have?

If we all practice celibacy it will be the end of the world .

Therefore you find that lifelong celibacy is not recommended as a prescriptive measure for all ... or even for a majority.

Here is an article (http://www.dandavats.com/?p=4018#more-4018) you might find interesting ... not so much for repositioning your values (you can eat your own cake) but for seeing what the devil's advocate has to offer

Such sentiments have greatly contributed to the presently widespread movement toward a full sensual awakening through the liberation of sexuality. Given that the body provides our only access to happiness, we must extirpate those constraints upon our fulfillment, those internal impediments inculcated by discarded, life-denying religions and moralities—the repression of desires, the consciousness of guilt, the fear and hatred of the body. Now one cultivates a liberated and expansive life, free from all repressions; one aspires to drink deeply at the wells of pure pleasure, unpolluted by guilt or shame, healed and whole inspirit through a joyous acceptance and celebration of the body.

It shouldn’t take much experience of the actual conduct of sexual relations for an alert person to recognize that this vision of unrestrained, joyous sex is an unrealizable fantasy. Nevertheless, the fantasy still seems to exercise an irresistible fascination. I suppose’ that people must blame its disappointments on repressions still unpurged, residual guilt and shame, and a lack of trust in and surrender to the body itself.

But in fact none of us can wholeheartedly trust in and surrender to the body, because we know, beneath the bluff and the bravado, that our bodies are frail and weak and dying and that the greatest pleasure it gives us it heartbreakingly brief. We find ourselves bound within a complexity of muscle and vein that nature can dismantle at any moment, in any of thousands of horrible ways. Our strength and beauty leak away in daily increments. Our body disintegrates before our eyes and becomes itself a major source of our suffering, and then we die.

Therefore, no one can help but be horrified by his body (even though the mind must repress those feelings in self- defense). This horror is not an artificial hate or fear imposed by some life-denying religion. It is only a sensible reaction to a correct perception.

[PsychoticEpisode]

LG....The least you could have done is offered the guy a link to the Kama Sutra.

[lightgigantic]

LG....The least you could have done is offered the guy a link to the Kama Sutra.

actually if people who picked up that book bothered to read the other 6/7th's of it that deals with issues other than sexual positions they might enjoy living in a society with a lower deivorce rate.
:o

[PsychoticEpisode]

actually if people who picked up that book bothered to read the other 6/7th's of it that deals with issues other than sexual positions they might enjoy living in a society with a lower deivorce rate.
:o

Like buying Playboy or Penthouse for the interviews:D

[lightgigantic]

As a man I enjoy and appreciate sex very much . It is one of life most interesting aspect . The Catholic church does not allow its priests to get married or to engage in sexual activities . Unless you are sick , it is hard to abstain from sex . Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . I think celibacy is just another religion crap that has no meaning at all . It is against nature will . If we all practice celibacy it will be the end of the world .
BTW here is an article by a hindu priest who visits a catholic seminary and provides some indications where he sees the problems lie

Celibacy—Exquisite Torture, or a “Yes to God”? (http://btg.krishna.com/main.php?id=166)


I was appalled by the amount of sexual frustration these men were giving voice to. It was wrong. So I started to question them about their life in the seminary, and it soon became quite clear why they were having such immense difficulty. To begin with, they had large stretches of idle time on their hands. And then, they freely read novels and magazines, habitually watched television. All these activities certainly agitated their senses. There was nothing spiritual about their eating habits. It was strictly for the tongue, and they were accustomed to drinking beer and smoking. They had lots of idle time, their senses were kept continuously under the bombardment of materialistic stimulation, and then—they were told to be celibate!

No one could be celibate under those circumstances. They were being cruelly, exquisitely tortured. Then I remembered the monsignor with his perverse syllogism: “Everything God has made is good. God has made alcohol… .” (He made arsenic, too, but you don’t ingest that!) I became angry. It was criminal to do this. These seminarians were not ordinary men: they wanted, and wanted very badly, to dedicate their lives fully to God. But nobody was showing them how. They were living in a way to agitate all their senses, and then commanded to be celibate! Of course they were always falling down, always laboring under a huge load of guilt. No wonder they were so cynical, so bitter and resentful. I wondered why nobody was teaching them. They didn’t even know the practical ABCs of spiritual life. They were being criminally betrayed.

[Orleander]

I remember seeing a cartoon once of a monk sitting in a church library looking at a very old scroll and crying. He was saying, "It says celebrate! CELEBRATE!!!"
lol, damn typo

[John99]

Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . I think celibacy is just another religion crap that has no meaning at all . It is against nature will . If we all practice celibacy it will be the end of the world .

Kids are more likely to get abused in school by teachers, bus drivers etc.

In fact many, many, many more. Asa a matter of fact it happens every day. Not just in schools but in their own homes. Of course these kids dont get big lawsuits, they get shit and it doesnt even make it in the last page of the newspaper.

I dont agree with celibacy unless that is your personal decision but celibacy alone has nothing to do with molesting children.

[Hapsburg]

As a man I enjoy and appreciate sex very much . It is one of life most interesting aspect . The Catholic church does not allow its priests to get married or to engage in sexual activities . Unless you are sick , it is hard to abstain from sex . Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . I think celibacy is just another religion crap that has no meaning at all . It is against nature will . If we all practice celibacy it will be the end of the world .
Yet another reason why I never turned to Christianity. Forcing celibacy on a priesthood is stupid, I think. It should be a personal choice, not something irrationally forced on you.
In Wicca, sexuality and love, in all its forms, is sacred and cherished as an important part of life. Rather than demonised, it is a key part of our mythology and rituals, regardless of if it is actual or symbolic.

[spidergoat]

This edict was never strictly enforced. In "A Distant Mirror", Barbara Tuchman describes it as expected that a priest would have a mistress, in fact, more than most people, since he held almost as much power as a nobleman, and they didn't marry. They simply paid the appropriate fine and got away with it. Illicit love was looked upon with some admiration in all circles, since marriage was more often than not, loveless.

[John99]

Yet another reason why I never turned to Christianity. Forcing celibacy on a priesthood is stupid, I think. It should be a personal choice, not something irrationally forced on you.


Isnt it a personal choice to become a Priest?

[Enmos]

Isnt it a personal choice to become a Priest?

No, you get picked by God..

[spidergoat]

Priests also often chose to marry someone, and left the priesthood, it's not like you were doomed to a sexless life.

[UltiTruth]

And it is a reasonable thing. Actually, I believe one would be more sensible in his priest's role once his basic desires are attended to, than when he is a pent up pressure cooker.

[John99]

And it is a reasonable thing. Actually, I believe one would be more sensible in his priest's role once his basic desires are attended to, than when he is a pent up pressure cooker.

But statistics DO NOT bear out what you believe. People that you would or rather society views as normal seem to molest or rape even more. That is the point with the priests and with single males in general.

History and statistics prove that there is absolutely no relationship or profile of the pressure cooker theory.

That is my understanding from reading papers mostly derived from FBI data.

[Cris]

What is meant by celibacy?

From websters:

1: the state of not being married
2 a: abstention from sexual intercourse
2 b: abstention by vow from marriage

This does not seem to exclude self gratification which can be used to effectively relieve those temporary natural urges.

Sex in all its various forms has been intertwined with religion for many mellenia. In past Eastern religious cultures it is celebrated and in the West the religious confuse it with feelings of guilt and repress it.

The connection between religion and sex is unclear to me.

[snake river rufus]

The early catholic church foisted celibacy on their priests not because of bible teachings but to save the church money. A celibrate man does not need a wage large enough to support a wife and children and no support is needed should that man die.

[spidergoat]

Much more importantly, his inheritence goes back to the church, not to his wife and kids. Priests spent loads of money, believe me.

[Yorda]

This does not seem to exclude self gratification which can be used to effectively relieve those temporary natural urges.

self gratification isn't allowed if you want to be celibate for real, but humans shouldn't try to be celibate. only people like jesus can do that without going crazy.

The connection between religion and sex is unclear to me.

let me clear this up for you a bit.

sex is the "god" of religions which creates new life. sexual energy is the lifeforce. by having sex you use your lifeforce. a long time ago there were people who could harness the sexual energy and that's why they had all their crazy magical powers that you read about in myths. eventually these ancient spiritual people didn't have any sex at all, so they gradually "died" out (ascended to higher planes). but before they died, genesis 6:4 says that they had sex with 'ordinary' materialistic humans, so that their powers would be transmitted to us. at first many people were born with magical powers, like the prophets in the bible, but the more time passed, the more the powers started to vanish. jesus was one of the last "sons of god", as they were called. when those holy men had sex with "us", they "crucified" themselves (god, divine self) in these bodies to save us from materialism.

the sexual energy in the bible is symbolized with a snake ("devil"), but if you've read the bible, you can see that if you "lift up a serpent on a cross", it becomes a rod/staff, which symbolizes sexual energy that has been converted to divine energy.

sex means to unite and become one with the one you love (god/self). when humans were separated from god/self when they "ate the fruit", they now seek themselves/god outside themselves, in religions, in people of opposite gender etc. but in reality they can only find themselves in themselves. god has seemingly divided into two parts, male and female, so they seek to unite and become "god" (infinite joy) again.

[CIEan]

As a man I enjoy and appreciate sex very much . It is one of life most interesting aspect . The Catholic church does not allow its priests to get married or to engage in sexual activities . Unless you are sick , it is hard to abstain from sex . Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . I think celibacy is just another religion crap that has no meaning at all . It is against nature will . If we all practice celibacy it will be the end of the world .

In psychology, it is said priests make use of a defense mechanism called sublimation, which enables them to redirect their sexual urges to more acceptable activities. Ex.: Painting, martial arts, playing an instrument, etc. Perhaps the ones that don't redirect their urges do those things.

[lightgigantic]

The early catholic church foisted celibacy on their priests not because of bible teachings but to save the church money. A celibrate man does not need a wage large enough to support a wife and children and no support is needed should that man die.
or alternatively, notions of mendicancy have gone so far out the door in contemporary western culture that there is a whole way of life from as recent as 75 years ago that people cannot even begin to understand

[Asguard]

its interesting, mum and i were having a conversation about married priests a while ago and it was her opinion that he church SHOULD alow priests to marry. After all if you look at the work they do its mostly quite similar to the work a psycologist does yet the psycologist can come home and unburden themselves of all the crappy things they have to deal with, with there partner. Priests dont have that suport. Nuns and brothers on the other hand dont deal with these sorts of things, they dont go out and give the last rights to children and try to surport there families. Or suport the remaining partner who has just lost his\her wife or husband of 50 or more years ect.

[lightgigantic]

its interesting, mum and i were having a conversation about married priests a while ago and it was her opinion that he church SHOULD alow priests to marry. After all if you look at the work they do its mostly quite similar to the work a psycologist does yet the psycologist can come home and unburden themselves of all the crappy things they have to deal with, with there partner. Priests dont have that suport. Nuns and brothers on the other hand dont deal with these sorts of things, they dont go out and give the last rights to children and try to surport there families. Or suport the remaining partner who has just lost his\her wife or husband of 50 or more years ect.

there is the added element about whether having an opportunity to have a heightened or more focused relationship with god can offer a few reserves that can't even be approached by the most functional of monogamous realtionships

[Asguard]

if you say so, im betting your wrong however

[lightgigantic]

if you say so, im betting your wrong however
with you being an atheist, I wouldn't expect you to wager otherwise

[Asguard]

of course, ignore the fact that your oposing position comes from a RELIGION teacher in a catholic school. Its her job to take the kids through all the sacroments so if you think you have a closer relationship with your priest than the working relationship mum has with the priest of the parish her school is under go right ahead:)

[lightgigantic]

of course, ignore the fact that your oposing position comes from a RELIGION teacher in a catholic school. Its her job to take the kids through all the sacroments so if you think you have a closer relationship with your priest than the working relationship mum has with the priest of the parish her school is under go right ahead:)
and what?
if an RE school teacher can't get issues of celibacy down nobody can?

[Asguard]

actually no, i was responding to your comment that because i dont belive in god i dont know what im talking about. I actually do have very strong conections to the catholic church and i probably know whats happerning there in before you do and with more accuracy inspite of the fact that i think the church is one of the most unethical insitutions on earth

[greenberg]

its interesting, mum and i were having a conversation about married priests a while ago and it was her opinion that he church SHOULD alow priests to marry. After all if you look at the work they do its mostly quite similar to the work a psycologist does yet the psycologist can come home and unburden themselves of all the crappy things they have to deal with, with there partner. Priests dont have that suport.

This is not true. A priest's work is not even close to a psychologist's work.
A priest is not a regular person anymore, because at least ideally, a priest has a knowledge and connection to God that run-of-the-mill people don't.

I am repusled by older men, men in their forties and later who are engaging in sex, yet who still talk about God.
I have no respect for CS Lewis, for example, or other non-clergy theistic writers. Nor for any protestant priest who even in in his fifties and sixties has sex. Nor for such women.

If these people know God -as they claim they do- then why on earth do they need to engage in run-of-the-mill activities? Why do these supposedly God-knowing people engage in sex, have their favorite TV series to watch, why do they eat meat, hunt, drink alcohol and coffee, smoke ...? Do they not know God??

[Enmos]

After all if you look at the work they do its mostly quite similar to the work a psycologist does yet the psycologist can come home and unburden themselves of all the crappy things they have to deal with, with there partner. Priests dont have that suport.

What ? But they have God..

[Myles]

This is not true. A priest's work is not even close to a psychologist's work.
A priest is not a regular person anymore, because at least ideally, a priest has a knowledge and connection to God that run-of-the-mill people don't.

I am repusled by older men, men in their forties and later who are engaging in sex, yet who still talk about God.
I have no respect for CS Lewis, for example, or other non-clergy theistic writers. Nor for any protestant priest who even in in his fifties and sixties has sex. Nor for such women.

If these people know God -as they claim they do- then why on earth do they need to engage in run-of-the-mill activities? Why do these supposedly God-knowing people engage in sex, have their favorite TV series to watch, why do they eat meat, hunt, drink alcohol and coffee, smoke ...? Do they not know God??


Oh dear,

You obviously have a hangup about sex. Why you should be repulsed by older people engaging in sex is beyond me. It is a natural human activity, as are the other activities you mention. Why should knowing god affect any of this or vice versa. ?

[phlogistician]

I believe it relates to Jesus supposedly being celibate his entire life and the priest are emulating him .

As it's quite likely that Jesus and Mary Magdelene were an item, it's doubtful that Jesus was celibate. The bible may not mention him consumating the relationship, but it doesn't mention him using a toilet either, and it would be incorrect to infer Jesus never took a crap!

Jesus being betrayed by Judas was probably because Judas was jealous, and had homosexual feelings towards Jesus. Sex, sex, and more sex. The bibles are full of it.

[Myles]

Celibacy in the RC Church has a practical side to it. It relieves the Church of the burden of caring for widows and orphans of the clergy.

[lightgigantic]

Oh dear,

You obviously have a hangup about sex. Why you should be repulsed by older people engaging in sex is beyond me. It is a natural human activity, as are the other activities you mention. Why should knowing god affect any of this or vice versa. ?
I would have thought the answer is simple

different values

:o

[Myles]

I would have thought the answer is simple

different values

:o

That's your problem, an inability to distinguish between what is simple and what is simplicistic.

[lightgigantic]

That's your problem, an inability to distinguish between what is simple and what is simplicistic.
more value judgments .... meh

[CutsieMarie89]

As it's quite likely that Jesus and Mary Magdelene were an item, it's doubtful that Jesus was celibate. The bible may not mention him consumating the relationship, but it doesn't mention him using a toilet either, and it would be incorrect to infer Jesus never took a crap!

Jesus being betrayed by Judas was probably because Judas was jealous, and had homosexual feelings towards Jesus. Sex, sex, and more sex. The bibles are full of it.

I think so too. I don't know about Judas though.

[phlogistician]

I think so too. I don't know about Judas though.

IIRC there's a passage in the NT where Judas lays with his head in the lap of Jesus, and also, think of how Judas betrayed Jesus, ... with a kiss.

GAY GAY GAY!

[mike47]

As a man who really love sex and love ; I just find it so weird and buzzard that a man does not have sex all his life unless he is sick . If people stop having sex it will be the end of the world .

[visceral_instinct]

Celibacy for religious purposes is utterly retarded. It doesn't make you a better person, just makes you a very sexually frustrated one. You want to do something good, go do some material good that actually makes life better for someone. Denying yourself sex won't save any children from starving or cure anyone's AIDS.

[spidergoat]

It wasn't about sex, it was about money. Keeping the priesthood celibate (officially anyway), kept the church's assets with the church.

[Medicine*Woman]

Celibacy for religious purposes is utterly retarded. It doesn't make you a better person, just makes you a very sexually frustrated one. You want to do something good, go do some material good that actually makes life better for someone. Denying yourself sex won't save any children from starving or cure anyone's AIDS.
*************
M*W: You make a very good comment about lack of sex causing frustration. It can become a lot more perverted than just being frustrated. As Catholic priests have shown us, repressed sexuality rears its ugly head by coming out in a more perverted way, i.e. molesting children. It is psychologically unhealthy to deny one's sexuality.

[Medicine*Woman]

It wasn't about sex, it was about money. Keeping the priesthood celibate (officially anyway), kept the church's assets with the church.
*************
M*W: Yes, this was how it got started--by greed (isn't that one of the seven deadlies?). However, the psychological implications arose out of sexuality being repressed. Ergo, pedophilia. Why? Because it was easier to victimize small children than adults.

[John99]

Most pedo's are in heterosexual relationships. Someone will have to check but i believe that statistically this is true, at least according to FBI data. Ergo. Pedo's are born like that.

Edit: At least in the vast majority of cases, as noted by recidivism rates.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism

[lightgigantic]

Celibacy for religious purposes is utterly retarded. It doesn't make you a better person, just makes you a very sexually frustrated one.
it would probably make you sexually frustrated

You want to do something good, go do some material good that actually makes life better for someone. Denying yourself sex won't save any children from starving or cure anyone's AIDS.
Try reading up on what newton remarked as his greatest achievement in life or what Gandhi indicated as the most effective means to achieve difficult tasks.

[visceral_instinct]

it would probably make you sexually frustrated


Try reading up on what newton remarked as his greatest achievement in life or what Gandhi indicated as the most effective means to achieve difficult tasks.

It would make any normal human frustrated.

If you say it was not having sex, I'll snort at the back of my mouth so hard I'll probably propel myself into the wall.

[mike47]

It wasn't about sex, it was about money. Keeping the priesthood celibate (officially anyway), kept the church's assets with the church.

As people get more educated and more realistic things such as celibacy ought to be something of the past . The whole episode does not make sense at all .

[John99]

Mike your whole argument cannot be backed up with statistics. People who are celibate do not go on sexual rampages. As a matter of fact the opposite is true.

Now we are left with the question of can people become addicted to sex? If you are getting a lot do you just want more and more? Like a crack head hitting the pipe, if not for that first hit then there would be no binge.

There are people who are celibate by choice, be they male or female does not make any difference. Most are not even religious but do it because they are not with someone they care about enough.

The thing is that this is not your decision to make for people and NO I am not celibate. I think that sex is overrated though, even animals would look at how some of us live and wonder if it is even normal.

Sexuality is a persons own business, i really do not make a big deal about it myself. At one time i did and then i realized that i was being manipulated, conformed to peoples expectations.

[lightgigantic]

It would make any normal human frustrated.

if you replaced the word "normal" with "common" I would agree - it is not advocated as a universal panacea for humanity at large

If you say it was not having sex, I'll snort at the back of my mouth so hard I'll probably propel myself into the wall.
:o

[mike47]

IIRC there's a passage in the NT where Judas lays with his head in the lap of Jesus, and also, think of how Judas betrayed Jesus, ... with a kiss.

GAY GAY GAY!

First of all I see religion as a man made non sense .
There is no proof that Jesus was gay from what you say as in many cultures men kiss men just like a father kisses his son as an example . In many parts of the world men who are not gay kiss men as friends or relatives ( Some parts of Africa , Middle East , Some parts of Asia .....etc ).

[CutsieMarie89]

Celibacy for religious purposes is utterly retarded. It doesn't make you a better person, just makes you a very sexually frustrated one. You want to do something good, go do some material good that actually makes life better for someone. Denying yourself sex won't save any children from starving or cure anyone's AIDS.

I disagree. At first I thought celibacy was next to impossible for me, but when I actually did it recently and after I went through withdrawal symptoms and stopped thinking about the sex I wasn't having I wasn't frustrated at all and spent more time focusing on other things. If people practicing celibacy for religious purposes were able to move past the temporary frustration it would be quite beneficial if they wanted to spend all of their time focusing on their religion. I mean if that's what you really want to do with all of your spare time.

[mike47]

I disagree. At first I thought celibacy was next to impossible for me, but when I actually did it recently and after I went through withdrawal symptoms and stopped thinking about the sex I wasn't having I wasn't frustrated at all and spent more time focusing on other things. If people practicing celibacy for religious purposes were able to move past the temporary frustration it would be quite beneficial if they wanted to spend all of their time focusing on their religion. I mean if that's what you really want to do with all of your spare time.
And if you can live without food and water of course you will die soon . Sex is necessary and a must for normal people .

[Red Devil]

You will find that sex is quite prevalent amongst catholic clergy, why do you trhink there are so many scandals involving priests.

[mike47]

You will find that sex is quite prevalent amongst catholic clergy, why do you think there are so many scandals involving priests.
Does this prove that religion is only another human CRAP created by man ?.
I think so .

[Red Devil]

But of course. There is no such thing as a pure religion. Lets face it, Catholicism via the Vatican is the biggest lie on the earth.

[mike47]

But of course. There is no such thing as a pure religion. Lets face it, Catholicism via the Vatican is the biggest lie on the earth.
I said good bye to religion when I was 22 and what a relief it was !.

[John99]

Does this prove that religion is only another human CRAP created by man ?.
I think so .

it proves you are a bitter old man and getting worse.

[Red Devil]

Why is that someone expresses a dislike for something, they are bitter but if they agree with a point its, "good man" ???? Religion is the route of all evil - enough said ;)

[John99]

Why is that someone expresses a dislike for something, they are bitter but if they agree with a point its, "good man" ???? Religion is the route of all evil - enough said ;)

Not all the time.

[lightgigantic]

Why is that someone expresses a dislike for something, they are bitter but if they agree with a point its, "good man" ???? Religion is the route of all evil - enough said ;)
If you want to judge a genre by its worst example you have sufficient means to discard absolutely anything ....
:o

[mike47]

Men and women were created to enjoy one another....if they do not do that then they must be sick....either mentally or physically or both.

[Lori_7]

I believe it relates to Jesus supposedly being celibate his entire life and the priest are emulating him and the nuns are married to God so unless God comes to them in person then they can't have sex with anyone else because that would be adultery. I myself didn't find celibacy so difficult back when I was in high school, but the idea doesn't sit well with me either anymore. It would be very difficult.

who says jesus was celibate? :confused:

nuns and priests are "supposed" to be celibate so they can concentrate on their "studies" without the interruption of sex. which indeed, is a great interruption.

[Lori_7]

As a man I enjoy and appreciate sex very much . It is one of life most interesting aspect . The Catholic church does not allow its priests to get married or to engage in sexual activities . Unless you are sick , it is hard to abstain from sex . Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . I think celibacy is just another religion crap that has no meaning at all . It is against nature will . If we all practice celibacy it will be the end of the world .

i just ended 8 years of celibacy this past weekend. i'm not sick...was not. i just felt like, because of my circumstances, it was the right thing to do, and i'm very glad i did. i didn't plan on having sex again but, almost miraculously, my circumstances changed. i'm very happy about that too. beyond happy.

[lightgigantic]

Men and women were created to enjoy one another....if they do not do that then they must be sick....either mentally or physically or both.
nevertheless the secret of maintaining a successful relationship remains a secret ......

;)

[Lori_7]

Its no secret. Its communion.

[lightgigantic]

Its no secret. Its communion.
and the secret of communion .....?

[mike47]

nevertheless the secret of maintaining a successful relationship remains a secret ......

;)
A catholic priest has no relationship at all . Yet he dictates to others how they live their lives....hahahaah...!!!.

[Ophiolite]

A catholic priest has no relationship at all . Yet he dictates to others how they live their lives....hahahaah...!!!.That is an ignorant remark. A Catholic priest conveys to his congregation how their lives should be led according to the teachings of the Roman Catholic church. He is an intermediary for conveying these instructions, not an originator of them. Consequently he has no need to have personal knowledge of all topics for which he provides guidance and direction.

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

-=-

Apparently, he has no need to have personal knowledge of anything at all.

[Asguard]

i just ended 8 years of celibacy this past weekend. i'm not sick...was not. i just felt like, because of my circumstances, it was the right thing to do, and i'm very glad i did. i didn't plan on having sex again but, almost miraculously, my circumstances changed. i'm very happy about that too. beyond happy.

lori thats great for you, however that was your choice and you could end it any day you wanted. Imagin if your carrer was linked to you never having sex though? you fall in love with someone and are left with the choice of giving up everything you have dedicated your life to or giving up someone you love.

That isnt even to mention the fact that you are stripping away a very BASIC surport stucture in human sociaty. For instance lets say you are a trauma psycologist dealing with people pulled out of war zones, child solders, people blown up in terriost acts, people who have lost whole families in bush fires (like in Black sat) ect ect and you come home at night and there is no one there just to cuddle. No one to surport YOU (wether thats in the form of sex, intimacy or wether it is a chance to sit down with them and discuss your pts which some chose to do and some dont), how do you think your OWN mental health is going to be without that?

I am not being specific here, that can be a close friend, male partner, female, multiple partners sexual or not it doesnt matter, everyone is different. However the fact remaines that sexual relationships DO bind humans together and provide a very strong social surport, especially for men.

Male sexual health has been shown time and again to fall faster and further than women's on the death or loss in whatever fassion (including divorce) of a spouse. This is because in general men dont have the sorts of social structures that women have, for alot of men ALL of their friends are either their partner's friends or the partner's of their partner's friends. Some dont even have those they are basically solitary except for there partner.

I havent seen any resurch specifically done on catholic priests (and priests of other sects which are unable to marry) but if that holds true for them as well you are basically stripping them of potentually their OWNLY confidant

[Lori_7]

and the secret of communion .....?

this is something i wrote in my blog a while ago. just some personal feelings that i kind of went on about for a minute, and then mid-writing it occurred to me that's what it seemed like i was talking about. but this is a personal interpretation...

sunday thoughts...

i refer to myself as a nun, and i mean it. but what i really mean is, that i'm waiting for someone very special. if i were asked who that is, i could say someone who i trust...who i admire...who is strong...enough to be honest...but that's not true. i am really waiting for, who it is that was meant to be...my fate...my soulmate...my destiny. if i were asked what i would want to do with my life, i would say i want to create, feed, foster, nuture, encourage, protect, and defend...to love, develop, grow, learn, teach, and share everything i am and do, with someone who, would share everything they are and do, with me. and to appreciate each other with an unconditional acceptance that never wanes, because it's what we both desire for ourselves and each other, more than anything. a desire to achieve, complete and unbridled intimacy, through complete and uncompromised honesty, which to me, sounds like communion. it's the perfect balance that sustains and perfects life by giving it purpose and meaning. without it, everything i do, is either too important, or not important at all, like if there's nothing resting on the other side of my scale.

________________

now, i started writing that with a mate in mind, but i realize that you can definitely apply that to relationships with all human beings, and to god. it's what god has shown me through the way he interacts with me, and the way i feel about him.

this is something else i wrote that could be relevant as well...

thinking of you...

you can have the greatest achievements
the most disappointing failures
the most paralyzing fear
the most intense joy
the most profound sorrow
and none of it means anything
without someone to share it with

[Lori_7]

lori thats great for you, however that was your choice and you could end it any day you wanted. Imagin if your carrer was linked to you never having sex though? you fall in love with someone and are left with the choice of giving up everything you have dedicated your life to or giving up someone you love.

That isnt even to mention the fact that you are stripping away a very BASIC surport stucture in human sociaty. For instance lets say you are a trauma psycologist dealing with people pulled out of war zones, child solders, people blown up in terriost acts, people who have lost whole families in bush fires (like in Black sat) ect ect and you come home at night and there is no one there just to cuddle. No one to surport YOU (wether thats in the form of sex, intimacy or wether it is a chance to sit down with them and discuss your pts which some chose to do and some dont), how do you think your OWN mental health is going to be without that?

I am not being specific here, that can be a close friend, male partner, female, multiple partners sexual or not it doesnt matter, everyone is different. However the fact remaines that sexual relationships DO bind humans together and provide a very strong social surport, especially for men.

Male sexual health has been shown time and again to fall faster and further than women's on the death or loss in whatever fassion (including divorce) of a spouse. This is because in general men dont have the sorts of social structures that women have, for alot of men ALL of their friends are either their partner's friends or the partner's of their partner's friends. Some dont even have those they are basically solitary except for there partner.

I havent seen any resurch specifically done on catholic priests (and priests of other sects which are unable to marry) but if that holds true for them as well you are basically stripping them of potentually their OWNLY confidant


you know, on one hand, i've gone through some intense spiritual stuff, and i have to admit that if i had been in a relationship or married while going through it, i know that those aspects of my life would have clashed so much that they would have destroyed each other. my spiritual experience was all encompassing. it took over my life for a while. someone i would have been involved with would have had to have been profoundly understanding during that time, and even then, i just don't think it would have worked. i don't think i would have been able to accomplish, or rather have god accomplish through me, what he did if i had been married.

on the other hand, religion, and the catholic church especially, is so fucked up. you know, they're such an institution. their own city for god's sake, their own government. they think they own god, own christ, and he's for sale, and unless you pay, and you're a card carrying member, you're not getting into heaven. the pope is fucking royalty, and apparently the bishops and nuns get away with murder. they turn their spirituality into a job, that they do get paid for. they segregate themselves from society and then practice a bunch of stupid and meaningless rituals to escape having to be real spiritual people in the real world. they don't understand that those rituals are meaningful, but only in representation of what they're supposed to be when realized in life. it's like, after i read that book "the davinci code" i was talking to my brother about how the monk beat himself with weapons and i didn't understand what purpose that was supposed to serve. my brother, who is an atheist but very educated about history and religion, said that it was supposed to make them closer to god somehow (i forget what he said exactly). but my thoughts about that were, "well maybe if they didn't hide themselves away from the rest of society in some retreat in the mountains or some compound somewhere, they wouldn't have to beat themselves to feel pain and seek god because they would experience the pain that's associated with living a normal life in society".

religion is bullshit.

[mike47]

That is an ignorant remark. A Catholic priest conveys to his congregation how their lives should be led according to the teachings of the Roman Catholic church. He is an intermediary for conveying these instructions, not an originator of them. Consequently he has no need to have personal knowledge of all topics for which he provides guidance and direction.
Is he another God too...?. Just asking and wondering !.
Bahama.

[MGMkZERO]

I believe it relates to Jesus supposedly being celibate his entire life

Which is why Christians hate the da Vinci Code.

I myself didn't find celibacy so difficult back when I was in high school

Of course you didn't.

[MGMkZERO]

"religion is bullshit."

Words of George Carlin. None truer.

Megaman Killed Zero

[OriginalBiggles]

This from Lightgigantic's post #5;
“ Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . ” [Mike47's post #1]
And many, many, many more weren't [Lg's comment]

This from John99's post #11in reply to Mike47 also;
Kids are more likely to get abused in school by teachers, bus drivers etc.
In fact many, many, many more. As a a matter of fact it happens every day. Not just in schools but in their own homes. Of course these kids dont get big lawsuits, they get shit and it doesnt even make it in the last page of the newspaper.
I dont agree with celibacy unless that is your personal decision but celibacy alone has nothing to do with molesting children. [John99's comment]

Having been engaged on numerous occasions with apologists for church-derived paedophilia in many discussion groups since the inception of the latest scandals several years ago, it has become apparent that one of their more decrepit strategems for diverting attention is to tar other unrelated groups with the same brush. One particularly mealy-mouthed writer in MSN groups consulted his priest and was advised to accuse Islam of paedophilia. He ignored appeals for references and couldn't extract them from his all-knowing advisor either.
Lightgigantic and John, equally, fall into this category of heinous apologetics.
Wherever paedophilia is discovered it is a betrayal of innocence, of the imperative that the young be nurtured and educated for the benefit and advancement of humankind.
Priests in particular are charged with this duty, it is for them A SACRED DUTY and the betrayal of that sacred duty is in the eyes of all society, an abomination, a rejection of priestly raison d'etre.
Rather than expending time and effort in diversion, it would behove both apologists well to proclaim in high dudgeon their contempt for the betrayers and the hierarchy that conspired to protect and encourage them.

OriginalBiggles, Prime

[MGMkZERO]

Dude, your post made my brain hurt really hard and I have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

[Asguard]

ops, after reading Lori_7's quote of my post i realised i made a mestake. Where it says "male sexual health" it SHOULD read "male MENTAL health". Sorry for the confusion

[OriginalBiggles]

Dude, your post made my brain hurt really hard and I have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

Could you be referring to my post #79?

If so, please tell me where your difficulty lies and I'll be happy to explain

OriginalBiggles, Prime

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

If you want to judge a genre by its worst example you have sufficient means to discard absolutely anything ....


If you want to judge a genre by its best example you have sufficient means to accept absolutely anything.

[MGMkZERO]

Could you be referring to my post #79?

If so, please tell me where your difficulty lies and I'll be happy to explain

OriginalBiggles, Prime

Yes.

Everywhere.

Sorry.

Megaman Kills Zero.

[John99]

Yes.

Everywhere.

Sorry.

Megaman Kills Zero.

your talking to yourself...arent you?;)

[MGMkZERO]

No.

"If so, please tell me where your difficulty lies and I'll be happy to explain

OriginalBiggles, Prime"

Now go eat something John99.

[lightgigantic]

If you want to judge a genre by its best example you have sufficient means to accept absolutely anything.
The "strawman fallacy" tends to indicate otherwise ......

;)

[lightgigantic]

This from Lightgigantic's post #5;
“ Many innocent children were abused by some priests and some popes apologized for this sick behaviour . ” [Mike47's post #1]
And many, many, many more weren't [Lg's comment]

This from John99's post #11in reply to Mike47 also;
Kids are more likely to get abused in school by teachers, bus drivers etc.
In fact many, many, many more. As a a matter of fact it happens every day. Not just in schools but in their own homes. Of course these kids dont get big lawsuits, they get shit and it doesnt even make it in the last page of the newspaper.
I dont agree with celibacy unless that is your personal decision but celibacy alone has nothing to do with molesting children. [John99's comment]

Having been engaged on numerous occasions with apologists for church-derived paedophilia in many discussion groups since the inception of the latest scandals several years ago, it has become apparent that one of their more decrepit strategems for diverting attention is to tar other unrelated groups with the same brush. One particularly mealy-mouthed writer in MSN groups consulted his priest and was advised to accuse Islam of paedophilia. He ignored appeals for references and couldn't extract them from his all-knowing advisor either.
Lightgigantic and John, equally, fall into this category of heinous apologetics.
Wherever paedophilia is discovered it is a betrayal of innocence, of the imperative that the young be nurtured and educated for the benefit and advancement of humankind.
Priests in particular are charged with this duty, it is for them A SACRED DUTY and the betrayal of that sacred duty is in the eyes of all society, an abomination, a rejection of priestly raison d'etre.
Rather than expending time and effort in diversion, it would behove both apologists well to proclaim in high dudgeon their contempt for the betrayers and the hierarchy that conspired to protect and encourage them.

OriginalBiggles, Prime
The reality is that you find people in positions of power misusing their positions of power. Its the central theme of human history.

To use this to demand that the position, in toto, be dissolved is simply a knee jerk emotional response from (rightly) distraught victims.

After all, how many parents have misused that position? Does this mean we should get rid of parenthood?
How many school teachers have misused that position? Does this mean we should get rid of all school teachers?
How many politicians have misused that position? Does this mean we should get rid of all politicians?

etc etc

I'm not sure whether you are arguing for the dissolution of the position, but that was certainly the context that the statements were made.

[lightgigantic]

this is something i wrote in my blog a while ago. just some personal feelings that i kind of went on about for a minute, and then mid-writing it occurred to me that's what it seemed like i was talking about. but this is a personal interpretation...

sunday thoughts...

i refer to myself as a nun, and i mean it. but what i really mean is, that i'm waiting for someone very special. if i were asked who that is, i could say someone who i trust...who i admire...who is strong...enough to be honest...but that's not true. i am really waiting for, who it is that was meant to be...my fate...my soulmate...my destiny. if i were asked what i would want to do with my life, i would say i want to create, feed, foster, nuture, encourage, protect, and defend...to love, develop, grow, learn, teach, and share everything i am and do, with someone who, would share everything they are and do, with me. and to appreciate each other with an unconditional acceptance that never wanes, because it's what we both desire for ourselves and each other, more than anything. a desire to achieve, complete and unbridled intimacy, through complete and uncompromised honesty, which to me, sounds like communion. it's the perfect balance that sustains and perfects life by giving it purpose and meaning. without it, everything i do, is either too important, or not important at all, like if there's nothing resting on the other side of my scale.

________________

now, i started writing that with a mate in mind, but i realize that you can definitely apply that to relationships with all human beings, and to god. it's what god has shown me through the way he interacts with me, and the way i feel about him.

this is something else i wrote that could be relevant as well...

thinking of you...

you can have the greatest achievements
the most disappointing failures
the most paralyzing fear
the most intense joy
the most profound sorrow
and none of it means anything
without someone to share it with
So you wouldn't recommend a mindset of "this person is meant for my enjoyment", yes?

[OriginalBiggles]

Post #84 belongs to MGMkZero and it contains;

Originally Posted by OriginalBiggles;

"Could you be referring to my post #79?
If so, please tell me where your difficulty lies and I'll be happy to explain

OriginalBiggles, Prime ”

Yes.
Everywhere.
Sorry.

Megaman Kills Zero.

There's no need to apologise for your deficiencies. In cases involving the godly such deficiencies are sometimes not of their own doing, so in true atheist fashion I am prepared to be magnanimous and allow that you are either dyslexic or that the English language itself poses difficulties for you. If the latter then it is probable you suffered a US public school education and no one fully recovers from such an early disadvantage. A great countryman of yours, Robert Green Ingersoll, observed with conspicuous sapience;
"College is the place where pebbles are polished and diamonds are dimmed." [note the subtle alliteration]. Nevertheless, it must be a matter of some pride to you that you are illustrative of such noble wisdom from the most distinguished US atheist of his era.

Unfortunately, I don't have the time to translate or to reword my post #79. I suggest you have a friend who speaks both English and your native tongue to translate for you. Have him/her concentrate on the second half of that post, that's where the crux lies. And concentrate on your spelling, USA-ians are pretty dreadful at it.

Good Luck to you and yours

OriginalBiggles, Prime

[John99]

pretty dreadful?

[John99]

that dont make no cense biggles.

[OriginalBiggles]

Lightgigantic #88,
The reality is that you find people in positions of power misusing their positions of power. Its the central theme of human history.
To paraphrase a current assertion; "And many, many, many do not abuse that power." Such an assertion is still irrelevant to the discussion and a propagation of the very strategem you would disavow. Men of the cloth from the highest to the lowest cultivate a sacred public trust and confidence far beyond that of the rest. They are the revered channel between the faithful and their deity. Their responsibility covers ALL in their care and protection. They frequently and loudly proclaim their special and unique station in society. Their own doctrine demands they be responsible for ALL spiritual and temporal care when called upon.
Parents, school teachers and politicians make no such claims and expect no such reverence from their flock.
Be that as it may, I made no call for the abolition or dissolution of religious organisations and decline to be diverted to this side issue, however much I relish the thought.
IMHO, centuries will be required for humankind to mature to a self-reliant, intellectually independent member of the animal kingdom. That association itself is a proud heritage but insufficient by a huge margin for us to presume to a suzerainty of the Cosmos. That we presume to be suzerains of Earth is a wholly unjustifiable pomposity.

OriginalBiggles, Prime

[StrangerInAStrangeLa]

If you want to judge a genre by its worst example you have sufficient means to discard absolutely anything ....


If you want to judge a genre by its best example you have sufficient means to accept absolutely anything.


The "strawman fallacy" tends to indicate otherwise ......


That is a strawman, as is the other quote from you.

[Lori_7]

So you wouldn't recommend a mindset of "this person is meant for my enjoyment", yes?

well i would imagine that the kind of relationship i'm suggesting here would be enjoyable. :shrug:

[OriginalBiggles]

John99 in his posts #91 & #92 remarked; pretty dreadful? that dont make no cense biggles.

The difficulty lies most probaby in the fact that my mode of expression is written English.

PRETTY DREADFUL = Somewhat dreadful, quite dreadful, fairly dreadful, moderately dreadful, very dreadful, awful, terrible, disgusting, outrageous, horrible, unspeakable, painful, atrocious, abominable, horrendous, frightening, fearsome, dire, unconscionable, unbearable, dismal.

In the Oxford Dictionary, the word PRETTY is defined as adj. beautiful, attractive. As adv. fairly. moderately. I have employed something of the hyperbole in my definitions above. It is used in this sense in the USA as well as English-speaking nations throughout the world.
I think it was in the movie ANALYSE THIS, Robert Deniro was asked if some mutual acquaintance was unexpectedly deceased, and he answered; "Pretty much." How would you interpret this response?

OrginalBiggles, Prime

[lightgigantic]

well i would imagine that the kind of relationship i'm suggesting here would be enjoyable. :shrug:
Certainly

But is that enjoyment secured through the mindset of "this person is meant for my enjoyment" or something more along the lines of sacrifice, giving more than you take etc?

[lightgigantic]

That is a strawman, as is the other quote from you.
On the contrary, the act of judging a genre by its worst example is a strawman
:rolleyes:

[Lori_7]

Certainly

But is that enjoyment secured through the mindset of "this person is meant for my enjoyment" or something more along the lines of sacrifice, giving more than you take etc?

I wouldn't consider it a sacrifice either. I would consider it symbiotic, and a true blessing.

[lightgigantic]

I wouldn't consider it a sacrifice either. I would consider it symbiotic, and a true blessing.
so as long as everything is cool from your end of the deal, its a perfect relationship?

[darksidZz]

I'm going for all my life, and I'll make it too! (darkies no good with finding a lady)

[cosmictraveler]

I'm going for all my life, and I'll make it too! (darkies no good with finding a lady)

You just haven't found the right one yet, don't worry you'll find her as long as you keep looking!

[mike47]

I've practiced celibacy at least a 1000 times. Wasn't too difficult.
Maybe you need Viagra....and lots of it too....loool .

[Lori_7]

so as long as everything is cool from your end of the deal, its a perfect relationship?

Of course not.

SYM BI O TIC.

[Lori_7]

I'm going for all my life, and I'll make it too! (darkies no good with finding a lady)

Hey, if a wierd little girl like me can find someone to see eye to eye with so can you.

Learn to love yourself first. Get to know yourself really well. Don't be afraid to set the mark high. The more idealistic the better. And then stand alone and reside yourself.

That's when miracles happen.

[tuberculatious]

I'm going for all my life, and I'll make it too! (darkies no good with finding a lady)

you can always try guys

[mike47]

you can always try guys
hahahaha....!. :D .

[swarm]

nevertheless the secret of maintaining a successful relationship remains a secret ......

Choose to stay together.

[swarm]

A Catholic priest ... has no need to have personal knowledge of all topics for which he provides guidance and direction.

And you choose your doctors this way?

[swarm]

I support the celibate being celibate. In fact they should have all the help medicine can provide.

[mike47]

I support the celibate being celibate. In fact they should have all the help medicine can provide.

And why is that...if I may ask...?. :) .

[lightgigantic]

Of course not.

SYM BI O TIC.
what do you see as the distinction between symbiosis and sacrifice?

[swarm]

And why is that...if I may ask...?. :) .

more for the rest of us.

[fiicere]

Ya know, one would think that the desire for celibacy would have been bred out of the human race by now...

[mike47]

Hey, if a wierd little girl like me can find someone to see eye to eye with so can you.

Learn to love yourself first. Get to know yourself really well. Don't be afraid to set the mark high. The more idealistic the better. And then stand alone and reside yourself.

That's when miracles happen.

The poroblem is I do not know who I am to start with......so I can not love someone I do not know....add to this mysery....I have no mark at all let alone high mark........of course with no idealistic thoughts.....and here I am alone....just as you predicted.....standing....obviously . :worship:

[Lori_7]

what do you see as the distinction between symbiosis and sacrifice?

There is no sacrifice in giving yourself entirely to someone who gives themself entirely to you with the best and most loving intent and honesty. Its a brave thing to do, but ironically so. We're so covered in lies and fear.

But I'm here to tell you right now that taking a stand for something right and pure and wonderful, even to the point of idealism means something. It changes things. It matters. It makes miracles happen. I know that.

[mike47]

There is no sacrifice in giving yourself entirely to someone who gives themselves entirely to you with the best and most loving intent and honesty. Its a brave thing to do, but ironically so. We're so covered in lies and fear.

But I'm here to tell you right now that taking a stand for something right and pure and wonderful, even to the point of idealism means something. It changes things. It matters. It makes miracles happen. I know that.
Happy miracles Lori_7.......:D .
I will have my miracles with Lori_8 or Lori_9......so I keep counting all Loris..;) .

[Lori_7]

The poroblem is I do not know who I am to start with......so I can not love someone I do not know....add to this mysery....I have no mark at all let alone high mark........of course with no idealistic thoughts.....and here I am alone....just as you predicted.....standing....obviously . :worship:

I went through something that forced me to dig deep inside myself and find and see and learn to love who I am. It was like a crash course in me after 30 some years of not understanding what I was capable of. It was hard, and I bitched like a motherfucker. It hurt. But it was extremely liberating and now I feel really strong and safe and confident. Its awesome. I'm really grateful now.

I hope the same for you.

[PieAreSquared]

I've noticed the longer woman go without sex.. the more woo-woo they get

[Lori_7]

Happy miracles Lori_7.......:D .
I will have my miracles with Lori_8 or Lori_9......so I keep counting all Loris..;) .

Yay! :)

[Lori_7]

I've noticed the longer woman go without sex.. the more woo-woo they get

The week I've just spent with the man of my dreams throws you're theory right out the window. :D

[mike47]

I've noticed the longer woman go without sex.. the more woo-woo they get

I have noticed that the longer men go without sex....the more crazy and bizarre they get.....:) .

[PieAreSquared]

The week I've just spent with the man of my dreams throws you're theory right out the window. :D

oh no... you're still as woo-woo as they come..;)

[PieAreSquared]

glad you got your clam lubed... glader that you're over the hill as far as child bearing

[mike47]

glad you got your clam lubed... glader that you're over the hill as far as child bearing

Too glad indeed.......:rolleyes: .

[PieAreSquared]

I have noticed that the longer men go without sex....the more crazy and bizarre they get.....:) .


yeah...but they get over it ;)

[Lori_7]

glad you got your clam lubed... glader that you're over the hill as far as child bearing

that's not a very nice thing to say. what the hell is wrong with you? :bugeye:

and i am not over the hill in any regards. :mad:

my clam lubed???

jesus. :rolleyes:

i'm glad i'm not you.

[mike47]

that's not a very nice thing to say. what the hell is wrong with you? :bugeye:

and i am not over the hill in any regards. :mad:

my clam lubed???

jesus. :rolleyes:

i'm glad i'm not you.
I thought the person was drunk or on something strong for him so I stopped answering last night....Cheers .

[PieAreSquared]

hard for me to take someone seriously who claims to hang out with spirits and watch movies..oh channeling medium you are.

you're over the hill as far as child-bearing goes..unless you want some physical problems to go along with your mental ones.

[Signal]

There is no sacrifice in giving yourself entirely to someone who gives themself entirely to you with the best and most loving intent and honesty. Its a brave thing to do, but ironically so. We're so covered in lies and fear.

But I'm here to tell you right now that taking a stand for something right and pure and wonderful, even to the point of idealism means something. It changes things. It matters. It makes miracles happen. I know that.

If you are not in menopause and still have functioning ovaries and uterus:
Were you using contraceptives (in whatever form)?
What if they fail and you become pregnant? (Even vasecotmies and tubal ligations are not 100% proof.)

As a woman, if you (or your partner) are using contraceptives (which means you do not actually want to conceive children):
Do you not consider this to be a sacrifice of your mental equilibrium, and possibly health?

[Lori_7]

hard for me to take someone seriously who claims to hang out with spirits and watch movies..oh channeling medium you are.

you're over the hill as far as child-bearing goes..unless you want some physical problems to go along with your mental ones.

well thanks for the well wishes. that's very gracious of you.

i happen to be in better shape than most 20 year olds, and my stuff's working just fine. ;)

[PieAreSquared]

Do you not consider this to be a sacrifice of your mental equilibrium, and possibly health?


way too late for that ;)

[PieAreSquared]

well..hope you don't kill this one

man of your dreams..isn't this the guy you were so wrapped up in years ago who fooled around on you ..so you got even and ended up pregnant .. then aborted the baby

[Lori_7]

If you are not in menopause and still have functioning ovaries and uterus:
Were you using contraceptives (in whatever form)?
What if they fail and you become pregnant? (Even vasecotmies and tubal ligations are not 100% proof.)

As a woman, if you (or your partner) are using contraceptives (which means you do not actually want to conceive children):
Do you not consider this to be a sacrifice of your mental equilibrium, and possibly health?

everything's still in order, and we're not using contraceptives. if i wasn't willing to have a child with this man i wouldn't be having sex with him. if god wants to give us a child, we'll have a child. and he will make a wonderful father, and i a mother.

i really trust god. and it feels really good...freedom, and confidence. i'm not worried about a thing.

if i were still trying to do things my way...the way i've done in the past when i was younger...then i would be worried with good reason.

[Lori_7]

well..hope you don't kill this one

man of your dreams..isn't this the guy you were so wrapped up in years ago who fooled around on you ..so you got even and ended up pregnant .. then aborted the baby

no, it's not. and i would never have another abortion. obviously...

this may be against forum rules and all but, you're being a real hateful asshole. you know that right?

[PieAreSquared]

actually Lori...I'm giving you some of your own crap back ..

I'm not hateful... but you're a fool

[Lori_7]

actually Lori...I'm giving you some of your own crap back ..

I'm not hateful... but you're a fool

i don't recall being hateful to you, or calling you a fool...throwing up past mistakes and regrets in your face in light of good fortune.

[PieAreSquared]

so your memory isn't worth a hoot either..lol

you choose your path ..but don't worry you're not going to have any baby

you're too old ..42 right... you missed your window..deal with it

[Lori_7]

so your memory isn't worth a hoot either..lol

you choose your path ..but don't worry you're not going to have any baby

you're too old ..42 right... you missed your window..deal with it

you seem to be more concerned with that than i am certainly. how did i offend you? refresh my memory would you?

[PieAreSquared]

let's just say like a number of people who have higher post counts here... you are quick to jump to name calling when someone doesn't agree with you and quick to cry foul when it comes back to you....ahhh the benefits of the net... you can say things to people you wouldn't normally say face to face .

[Lori_7]

let's just say like a number of people who have higher post counts here... you are quick to jump to name calling when someone doesn't agree with you and quick to cry foul when it comes back to you....ahhh the benefits of the net... you can say things to people you wouldn't normally say face to face .

what name did i call you?

[mike47]

actually Lori...I'm giving you some of your own crap back ..

I'm not hateful... but you're a fool
I thought we were supposed to debate the pros and cons of celibacy.....how wrong I was....we are attacking one another....:shrug:.

[PieAreSquared]

de-railed...anyhow she ain't celibate any more

[Asguard]

strange that (as far as i know) no one has yet been willing to discuss the implications of stripping away a vital human surport (ie a sexual partner) which is even more important for men who lack the networks women seem to aquire (for the most part)

[mike47]

de-railed...anyhow she ain't celibate any more
Top secret...no one is celibate here....:) .

[PieAreSquared]

I am...cause god wants me to be ;)

[mike47]

I am...cause god wants me to be ;)
God....?. Ah... this is another long thread .
God or Gods or no Gods are the questions !. :D .

[PieAreSquared]

no it's god with a little "g" ;)

[mike47]

no it's god with a little "g" ;)
No respect for " god "...?.
:cool: !.

[PieAreSquared]

Chased, chased
By the angry mob
Trying to steal my heart from me
Steal from me my love for god
Watch as stars fall from the sky
Wait until the oceans dry up
But even then
I still feel loved
Even so, I feel cared for
Even now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6CASI7f68E&feature=PlayList&p=F99973E9D7EC1AFC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=33)

[mike47]

Chased, chased
By the angry mob
Trying to steal my heart from me
Steal from me my love for god
Watch as stars fall from the sky
Wait until the oceans dry up
But even then
I still feel loved
Even so, I feel cared for
Even now (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6CASI7f68E&feature=PlayList&p=F99973E9D7EC1AFC&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=33)

I thought you were a hard core Atheist . Did you change over night or Am I having hallucinating ?....:D .

[PieAreSquared]

there you go thinking again ;)

assuming that since one doesn't agree with others views .. that they don't believe

it kind of boils down to how far woo-woo one gets and there are some pretty far out views

[mike47]

I am...cause god wants me to be ;)
Happy and long celibacy then.....:) .

[PieAreSquared]

I've already had 5 kids... I ain't missing nothing ;)

[Lori_7]

de-railed...anyhow she ain't celibate any more

*happy dance*

:yay:

[Lori_7]

strange that (as far as i know) no one has yet been willing to discuss the implications of stripping away a vital human surport (ie a sexual partner) which is even more important for men who lack the networks women seem to aquire (for the most part)

why is this always more important for men?

the man card...:rolleyes:

[Orleander]

since when does the Catholic Church force its priests to be celibate? Its a job requirement, which all jobs have. If they can't follow the job requirements, they can quit.

[mike47]

since when does the Catholic Church force its priests to be celibate? Its a job requirement, which all jobs have. If they can't follow the job requirements, they can quit.
This is an inhuman, unrealistic, unfair and unachievable job requirement that led to hypocracy, lies, sexual diversions, child molestation and pedophilia !.:rolleyes: .

[Orleander]

But they knowingly willingly signed up for it.
And celibacy didn't lead to child molestation and pedophilia. The Catholic church's willingness to hide it (not the celibacy requirement) led to a huge job market opportunity for pedophiles. They went where the accessible kids were.

[Lori_7]

yeah, just for the record, i didn't molest any children while i was celibate. didn't even cross my mind...

[mike47]

yeah, just for the record, i didn't molest any children while i was celibate. didn't even cross my mind...

I did NOT know you were a Catholic priest as I was referring to priests of course....:D .

[Lori_7]

I did NOT know you were a Catholic priest as I was referring to priests of course....:D .

i did refer to myself as a nun (in an unconventional sense), and i want to be a foster mom. does that count?

i didn't wear a habit, but i do have a jesus cheerleader uniform with purple and gold metallic pom poms.

:shrug:

[mike47]

i did refer to myself as a nun (in an unconventional sense), and i want to be a foster mom. does that count?

i didn't wear a habit, but i do have a Jesus cheerleader uniform with purple and gold metallic pom poms.

:shrug:
Good point though....we hear about priests abuses but NOT nuns' ones.....:D.

[Signal]

everything's still in order, and we're not using contraceptives. if i wasn't willing to have a child with this man i wouldn't be having sex with him. if god wants to give us a child, we'll have a child. and he will make a wonderful father, and i a mother.

i really trust god. and it feels really good...freedom, and confidence. i'm not worried about a thing.

if i were still trying to do things my way...the way i've done in the past when i was younger...then i would be worried with good reason.

What about your plans for the future? If you do have a child, or more, is there a point where you see yourself as not having sex anymore or begin using contraceptives?

[Lori_7]

What about your plans for the future? If you do have a child, or more, is there a point where you see yourself as not having sex anymore or begin using contraceptives?

my plans? go with the flow. i guess if i were younger and faced with the possibility of popping out 15 kids by the time i reached menopause i might feel differently, but that's not an option now. i want to be a foster mom too.

[mike47]

my plans? go with the flow. i guess if i were younger and faced with the possibility of popping out 15 kids by the time i reached menopause i might feel differently, but that's not an option now. i want to be a foster mom too.
Welcome to the world of the non celibate....you will enjoy every second of it...:D .

[Asguard]

why is this always more important for men?

the man card...:rolleyes:

why is having a wife statistically more important for men?
if you think im saying sex is more important for men your wrong, however various studies have shown that men in a commited relationship live longer and that men are more likly to die with in a year of losing a partner through death, divorce ect (to the point that its as great a risk factor as smoking).

Why is this?

Well it most likly has to do with social networking. Women statistically have a much wider social network than men do. In fact for a lot of men (and my father is a good example of this) there friends are compleatly dependent on their partner (ie they are the husbands of the wife's friends). Studies have shown time and again the protective effects of having a social network for mental health and mental illness (paticually anxiaty disorders and depression) have a strongly depressing influence on immune responce (for instance Auto immune diseases are shown to strike more often in people with anxiaty and depression when compared to the general population, cold sores and colds both have been shown to strike most often in people under stress ect).

I wasnt dismissing the importance of sex and relationships for women but they are even more important for mens health.

[swarm]

yeah, just for the record, i didn't molest any children while i was celibate. didn't even cross my mind...


Good thing to.

People leave that sort of thing to professional priests.

[tuberculatious]

are you celibate if you masturbate?

[mike47]

are you celibate if you masturbate?

Of course you are.....so enjoy yourself by yourself....with yourself ...:idea:

[Lori_7]

why is having a wife statistically more important for men?
if you think im saying sex is more important for men your wrong, however various studies have shown that men in a commited relationship live longer and that men are more likly to die with in a year of losing a partner through death, divorce ect (to the point that its as great a risk factor as smoking).

Why is this?

Well it most likly has to do with social networking. Women statistically have a much wider social network than men do. In fact for a lot of men (and my father is a good example of this) there friends are compleatly dependent on their partner (ie they are the husbands of the wife's friends). Studies have shown time and again the protective effects of having a social network for mental health and mental illness (paticually anxiaty disorders and depression) have a strongly depressing influence on immune responce (for instance Auto immune diseases are shown to strike more often in people with anxiaty and depression when compared to the general population, cold sores and colds both have been shown to strike most often in people under stress ect).

I wasnt dismissing the importance of sex and relationships for women but they are even more important for mens health.

that's interesting. i never really considered that before, but it's true. most men don't have support systems like most women do.

[mike47]

that's interesting. i never really considered that before, but it's true. most men don't have support systems like most women do.

Men usually sulk, cry and if it does not work for them they turn to booze, drugs or both.....silly men...:wallbang:

[Lori_7]

Men usually sulk, cry and if it does not work for them they turn to booze, drugs or both.....silly men...:wallbang:

it's nice to be needed. even given women's "support systems", i'm convinced that all most women really want is to be valued by a man.

i expect some backlash for this comment, but i stand by it. ;)

[mike47]

it's nice to be needed. even given women's "support systems", i'm convinced that all most women really want is to be valued by a man.

i expect some backlash for this comment, but i stand by it. ;)
We all men and women need to be needed because we are still babies and do refuse to grow........momy......daddy......:D:D.

[Lori_7]

We all men and women need to be needed because we are still babies and do refuse to grow........momy......daddy......:D:D.

nah...it's inherent...the desire for communion. i think you have to achieve a certain level of maturity and independence before that can even happen in a healthy way.

you can't compare that kind of relationship with a child/parent relationship. that would be kinda sicko, you know?

[mike47]

ops, after reading Lori_7's quote of my post i realised i made a mistake. Where it says "male sexual health" it SHOULD read "male MENTAL health". Sorry for the confusion
Why apologize ?. It seems everyone thinks sexual instead of mental......it is in the genes.....:) .

[mike47]

I've practiced celibacy at least a 1000 times. Wasn't too difficult.
It is too difficult for me .
People are different .
Life is complex .
When people try to control other people's lives they end up damaging lots of souls .
:D .

[Lori_7]

It is too difficult for me .
People are different .
Life is complex .
When people try to control other people's lives they end up damaging lots of souls .
:D .

When who tries to control other people's lives?

[PsychoticEpisode]

Originally Posted by PsychoticEpisode
I've practiced celibacy at least a 1000 times. Wasn't too difficult.

It is too difficult for me .
People are different .
Life is complex .
When people try to control other people's lives they end up damaging lots of souls .
:D .

Mike...Just a joke...I stopped having sex after each time I had sex. The moment between sexual encounters was my celibate mode, whether I wanted it or not. Someone asked famous American comic actor WC Fields if he could quit drinking and he answered that it was easy to quit drinking because he'd done it a thousand times. Usually after he went unconscious.

[earth]

Good point though....we hear about priests abuses but NOT nuns' ones.....:D.

A nun pleaded no contest two counts of child molestation (http://www.huliq.com/41768/nun-norma-giannini-pleads-no-contest-to-child-molestation)

Dozens Allege Sex Abuse (http://www.snapnetwork.org/female_victims/dozens_allege_nuns.htm) by Nuns

[mike47]

When who tries to control other people's lives?

Like the pope and others in high places who dictate to the sheeple what to do and what not to do .....;);).

[Lori_7]

Like the pope and others in high places who dictate to the sheeple what to do and what not to do .....;);).

well who gives a fuck what he thinks? lol...

from what i've learned, god doesn't want you to do things or not do things because someone else (even god) tells you to (like an order). god wants you to do what you want to do willingly, and independent of social norms (which include religion).

the way it worked with me...

god gave me an impression, and a vision, of a sexual relationship that was so desirable to me, that i really had no choice but to turn away from social norms, and from what i've experienced in the past. it wasn't an effort, it was something i not only wanted to do, but was completely natural. i developed a negative association with something that was disappointing to me. that's not surprising is it?

so i stood for what i believed in...for 8 years. and now i've got it. :)

[mike47]

well who gives a fuck what he thinks? lol...
Millions and millions follow the Pope so he is a very powerful figure .

from what i've learned, god doesn't want you to do things or not do things because someone else (even god) tells you to (like an order). god wants you to do what you want to do willingly, and independent of social norms (which include religion).the way it worked with me...
Each person sees life in a different spectrum but when it comes to religion and politics most of us are just followers .

god gave me an impression, and a vision, of a sexual relationship that was so desirable to me, that i really had no choice but to turn away from social norms, and from what i've experienced in the past. it wasn't an effort, it was something i not only wanted to do, but was completely natural. i developed a negative association with something that was disappointing to me. that's not surprising is it?

so i stood for what i believed in...for 8 years. and now i've got it. :)
Of course it was too much of an effort .
We are humans and we are geared up by many instincts including sex .

[swivel]

Celibacy comes from Paul's insanity. Paul thought Jesus was going to return in his lifetime. Revelations was supposed to take place 2,000 years ago. That's why Paul said it was unethical to divorce, marry, or have more children. What was the point?

So, what we have is a system that rewards people with innate, deviant thoughts. Most men have such a strong urge to mate with women, that they don't think twice about becoming priests. Some men don't feel this urge to chase women (nature isn't perfect, see siamese twins, conjoined twins, poor eyesight, autism, etc...). These men see this lack of sexual appetite as either a calling to preach, a sign of their strength, or just aren't put-off by the sacrifices required.

So what happens? Paul's insanity leads to a system that attracts pedophiles and puts them in charge of little boys.

Brilliant!

[mike47]

:bravo::bravo: !.

[earth]

Celibacy comes from Paul's insanity.

Paul wasn’t insane. He most likely had ED (erectile dysfunction). If they had medical science back then he could have seen a doctor and got a prescription for Cialis or Viagra. I guess God didn’t know that there is a solution for such things.

"I wish that all men were as I am." 1 Corinthians 7:7

Paul referred to his ED problem as a gift. ;)

[swarm]

Paul, the gay closeted misogynist.

[mike47]

Paul, the gay closeted misogynist.
Where did you get your info from ?.
What is your proof ?.
:bugeye:

[Lori_7]

Millions and millions follow the Pope so he is a very powerful figure .


Each person sees life in a different spectrum but when it comes to religion and politics most of us are just followers .


Of course it was too much of an effort .
We are humans and we are geared up by many instincts including sex .

copout, copout, copout.

[mike47]

copout, copout, copout.
Huh.....I thought you are no longer in love with celibacy.....;) .
Any moment of celibacy is a complete waste of human time and enjoyment .

[Lori_7]

Huh.....I thought you are no longer in love with celibacy.....;) .
Any moment of celibacy is a complete waste of human time and enjoyment .

hm...obviously you've never been screwed. :p

[mike47]

hm...obviously you've never been screwed. :p
Screwing is always nice but being screwed is another entire issue .
Nature is as mysterious as it can be .
;) .

[Lori_7]

Screwing is always nice but being screwed is another entire issue .
Nature is as mysterious as it can be .
;) .

and human nature can be very destructive.

i think that everyone should call sex "mating". i think that would help some...

gain a little perspective.

[mike47]

and human nature can be very destructive.

i think that everyone should call sex "mating". i think that would help some...

gain a little perspective.
Sex is fun and REAL fun too .
It has nothing to do with mating .
I can have sex with a million women with no child conceived .

[Lori_7]

Sex is fun and REAL fun too .
It has nothing to do with mating .
I can have sex with a million women with no child conceived .

that's UNnatural.

[(Q)]

I can have sex with a million women with no child conceived .

Your boys can't swim, eh? Sucks to be you. hehe

Look on the bright side, the fact that you can't breed is a good thing, you won't become the child beater we all know you want to be. :)

[mike47]

Your boys can't swim, eh? Sucks to be you. hehe

Look on the bright side, the fact that you can't breed is a good thing, you won't become the child beater we all know you want to be. :)

You are nuts . That was an example only . You can use condoms, have a vasectomy or the ladies get their birth control.......hahaha...you just like to insult people little moron !!!.

[(Q)]

You are nuts .

How did you guess? http://www.smileyshut.com/smileys/new/buffo4.gif

.......hahaha...you just like to insult people little moron !!!.

Sorry, I didn't know you were sensitive about your little problem? teehee

[S.A.M.]

Is this a prelude to a dick sizing contest? Who is the bigger dick?

[(Q)]

Is this a prelude to a dick sizing contest? Who is the bigger dick?

Did you hear the one about the Corvette and the porcupine? With the porcupine, the prick is on the outside.

[shorty_37]

Ha Ha..............Mike and Q you guys are quite entertaining!

You are turning into the Male version of Orleander and Me going at it. :p

[Slysoon]

Celibacy is foolish, but reducing ejaculation to once every seven to ten days has many health benefits via reduction in dihydrotestosterone levels.

[mike47]

Ha Ha..............Mike and Q you guys are quite entertaining!

You are turning into the Male version of Orleander and Me going at it. :p
It is beyond me why some folks find any excuse to swear at people as if they are here just to fight . If someone has a personal problem or if he or she is CRAZY then they should not be here . This is not a psychiatric ward .
I am glad most people agree with me that celibacy is not healthy specially when it is for a life time .........;):D .

[(Q)]

This is not a psychiatric ward .

Yes, it is. I've not seen a larger group of nutjobs and loonies in one place than this place.

[Orleander]

...I am glad most people agree with me that celibacy is not healthy specially when it is for a life time .........;):D .

:confused: it isn't? I'm more likely to die because of sex than being celibate.

[shorty_37]

If someone has a personal problem or if he or she is CRAZY then they should not be here . This is not a psychiatric ward .


I could swear sometimes it is. Sometimes while reading posts I have a voice in the back of my head saying " It's Medication Time" :p

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/212/328048573200729c14a7s.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/i/328048573200729c14a7s.jpg/)

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6467/334522431621ae84f9d9027.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/334522431621ae84f9d9027.jpg/)

[mike47]

I could swear sometimes it is. Sometimes while reading posts I have a voice in the back of my head saying " It's Medication Time" :p

http://img137.imageshack.us/img137/212/328048573200729c14a7s.jpg (http://img137.imageshack.us/i/328048573200729c14a7s.jpg/)

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/6467/334522431621ae84f9d9027.jpg (http://img90.imageshack.us/i/334522431621ae84f9d9027.jpg/)

It is the same when some mods come with their decisions " trolling, trolling and trolling.....!!!".
I am tired of being reminded that I can not say what I want . Freedom and liberty at 100% is just a dream.....so we keep on dreaming ...!.
Good news I am not celibate.....:.

[Medicine*Woman]

Celibacy is foolish, but reducing ejaculation to once every seven to ten days has many health benefits via reduction in dihydrotestosterone levels.
*************
M*W: Celibacy is unnatural. I have studied urological surgery. The optimal number of ejaculations to prevent prostate and other urological problems is three times per week, but I guess you take what you can get eh?

[Slysoon]

*************
M*W: Celibacy is unnatural. I have studied urological surgery. The optimal number of ejaculations to prevent prostate and other urological problems is three times per week, but I guess you take what you can get eh?

Urology by itself does not come close to explaining the effects of ejaculation on the male body as a whole. The effects are potent at high frequencies of ejaculation, and have a wide host of target areas, including the prostate gland.

[Medicine*Woman]

Urology by itself does not come close to explaining the effects of ejaculation on the male body as a whole. The effects are potent at high frequencies of ejaculation, and have a wide host of target areas, including the prostate gland.
*************
M*W: I don't disagree with you.

[John99]

*************
M*W: Celibacy is unnatural. I have studied urological surgery. The optimal number of ejaculations to prevent prostate and other urological problems is three times per week, but I guess you take what you can get eh?

Urology by itself does not come close to explaining the effects of ejaculation on the male body as a whole. The effects are potent at high frequencies of ejaculation, and have a wide host of target areas, including the prostate gland.

*************
M*W: I don't disagree with you.

I would love to know how these conclusions are derived. Of course I know they are not true but i just find it amazing that people make statements as if they were facts.

[mike47]

I believe it relates to Jesus supposedly being celibate his entire life and the priest are emulating him and the nuns are married to God so unless God comes to them in person then they can't have sex with anyone else because that would be adultery. I myself didn't find celibacy so difficult back when I was in high school, but the idea doesn't sit well with me either anymore. It would be very difficult.

Being married to God is something out of this world .
Jesus life is not well explained when it comes to sex and family .