View Full Version : I dont see the pont in religion
Dryzalaxean
08-03-08, 07:02 AM
honestly i dont... every time i mention someting bout me bein anti-religous. people call me satanis and shyt like that... i am former satanist, but now i just hate all religions.. it brings nothing to ou society but discusion and arguement. there is no god, there is no devil, theres no reasonto get down to our knees and worship anything. if humans get rid of religion it wll pen the doors to so any options and opertunities, more time to think about how we can better our lives and help our race survive in this universe. but with religion in the way we spend too much time worrying bout if its right or wrong to learn certain things. id say we'd b better with out it.
if you don't see the point than you don't need it.
Dryzalaxean
08-03-08, 07:05 AM
i dont follow any religion, but i wud like for other people to see my veiws and join me... in mot one to go at things alone lol... altho i have been all my life
i dont follow any religion, but i wud like for other people to see my veiws and join me... in mot one to go at things alone lol... altho i have been all my life
Other peoples' needs are different, your help is not needed. Do not force your beliefs into others. Some people need religion and some do not.
Dryzalaxean
08-03-08, 07:12 AM
you tell me not to force my beleifs onto others... yet thats what the christain church is mostly known for, pushing theyre beleifs onto others to join em... so how am i any difrent from them? in my eyes religion is just man kind looking for a shoulder to lean on in bad times of theyre life, due to the fact that they dont want to acept the truth that theyre alone in this world in the end
you tell me not to force my beleifs onto others... yet thats what the christain church is mostly known for, pushing theyre beleifs onto others to join em... so how am i any difrent from them? in my eyes religion is just man kind looking for a shoulder to lean on in bad times of theyre life, due to the fact that they dont want to acept the truth that theyre alone in this world in the end
A church, that exists, a Christian church existance does not mean they are correct in the acts.
If one does evil, do you do evil as well?
There is no one truth for us all, we are all different and so are our needs.
Dryzalaxean
08-03-08, 07:21 AM
yes i understand that, but i still dont see the pint in it all. i mean do people really need religion to cure a disease? do they need religion to get a job? do they need religion to tend to the household? if death is the only reason y they need religion then that isnt a really good reason... death is a natural state of life, and should not m mourned over, it should be envy'd. people sould remember the good times that person had and rejoyce over what theyve done.
yes i understand that, but i still dont see the pint in it all. i mean do people really need religion to cure a disease? do they need religion to get a job? do they need religion to tend to the household? if death is the only reason y they need religion then that isnt a really good reason... death is a natural state of life, and should not m mourned over, it should be envy'd. people sould remember the good times that person had and rejoyce over what theyve done.
If death was envied, we would be all dead, for something to be envied needs full trust in it and belief.
People are different, some need religion, some do not.
People do not need to do something, they got a set number of years to live and they choose themselves what to do with those years of life.
Yes some people need religion to find their way and guidance in daily life. Some are leaders, some are sheep, some want to be in between. Religion is not a truth serum which can be drank by us all and expected to have same result.
Dryzalaxean
08-03-08, 07:31 AM
altho i still dont see the point, i will say this. i am hoestly sick and tired of fake "faith" people... the kind of people that say they know about theyre religion, yet theyve never read a page of theyre religions book, yet they go on to say they know everything about it.
cosmictraveler
08-03-08, 10:30 AM
altho i still dont see the point, i will say this. i am hoestly sick and tired of fake "faith" people... the kind of people that say they know about theyre religion, yet theyve never read a page of theyre religions book, yet they go on to say they know everything about it.
Then just avoid them whenever possible. Usually if you just don't bother them, they won't bother you.
Norsefire
08-03-08, 10:55 AM
There is huge point in religion. It is an affirmation of man's ideas; it is a guide to right and wrong. Without it, there would be no morality.
There is huge point in religion. It is an affirmation of man's ideas; it is a guide to right and wrong. Without it, there would be no morality.
Thank you, Norsefire. I have just submitted your statement to atheist.org for the post of the month.
That quote is shoe-in, although they may not accept it since it didn't originate on their forum.
Good luck, though.
You actually have a place called athiest.org? What do they talk about? All the things they don't believe in?
Just several weeks after I became Acting President of American Atheists, I discovered that the roof on the American Atheists Center in Cranford, New Jersey had been leaking for some time and water had already done considerable damage to books and other materials in our stock room. Worse yet, there were indications that the part of the roof covering the Charles E. Stevens American Atheist Library & Archives (C.E.S.A.A.L.A.) was also failing and that the special climate-controlled, fire suppression-protected rooms housing the rarest materials were in grave danger. As American Atheists officers and staff were in the very act of hiring a contractor to replace the roof, a heavy rainstorm penetrated the ceiling of the library itself, bringing down some ceiling tiles. Fortunately, prescient staff at the Center had covered the ranks of books with enormous sheets of plastic film and no serious damage was done. At the moment that I am writing this, the repair of the roof is nearly complete....
These attractive gel bracelets identify you as a proud Atheist who defends Reason and the separation of church and state! And wearing them helps support the important work of American Atheists. They make great gifts any time of year. Check out this colorful line of accessories that tell people where you stand!
Uh apparently not. :eek:
http://www.atheists.org/
Ugh, I hate that sort of arrogant self promoting crap.
honestly i dont...
Religion doesn't see a point in you, punk. What have you ever accomplished?
Kadark the Piston
Norsefire
08-03-08, 02:27 PM
Kadark speaks truth
I love how atheists have a need to talk about what they don't believe in.
Kadark speaks truth
I love how atheists have a need to talk about what they don't believe in.
Tell us about god.
Go ahead...:)
Norsefire
08-03-08, 02:56 PM
Tell us about god.
Go ahead...:)
I'm agnostic, I cannot.
KennyJC
08-03-08, 03:44 PM
There is huge point in religion. It is an affirmation of man's ideas; it is a guide to right and wrong. Without it, there would be no morality.
Still repeating the same old crap? Religion is built around morals, not the other way round. ie. morals existed before religion, and sure would exist without it. So stop talking shit.
Do you know anyplace other than religion where morality is a focus?
KennyJC
08-03-08, 03:52 PM
Do you know anyplace other than religion where morality is a focus?
Societal consensus or just being an everyday good person.
And just an additional point, religious people don't get their morals from religion. Morals change, and religions change with it. It's why christians now ignore half of the bible. If only we could get muslims to ignore half of the Koran.
Syzygys
08-03-08, 03:54 PM
You actually have a place called athiest.org? What do they talk about?
I thought that was obvious:
How to avoid stampedes....
For the OP: Religion is a spiritual crunch for dealing with the hardness of life....
Societal consensus or just being an everyday good person.
And just an additional point, religious people don't get their morals from religion. Morals change, and religions change with it. It's why christians now ignore half of the bible. If only we could get muslims to ignore half of the Koran.
Morals don't change. People's ideas about what morality means changes. Its why the British who wrote of Arabs as sodomites now have gay parades.
There has been no successful atheist society. They were all failures. The only surviving societies are all derived from religion.
KennyJC
08-03-08, 04:01 PM
Morals don't change. People's ideas about what morality means changes. Its why the British who wrote of Arabs as sodomites now have gay parades.
Ok. Either way religion is no gold standard for morality.
There has been no successful atheist society. They were all failures. The only surviving societies are all derived from religion.
Yes, forced atheism will always be a failure. Organic atheism will improve societies from their roots of enforced religion.
Organic athiesm? Hilarious.
Ever heard of teh Carvakas? Its a failed organic atheism movement.
KennyJC
08-03-08, 04:06 PM
Organic athiesm? Hilarious.
Ever heard of teh Carvakas? Its a failed organic atheism movement.
The most peaceful societies, most healthiest societies in the world today have a large percentage of atheism that is not forced by the government.
The most peaceful societies, most healthiest societies in the world today have a large percentage of atheism that is not forced by the government.
But they cannot form a successful society on their own. I think its because they lack a basic understanding of what religion contributes to society.
Ain-i-Akbari, written by Abul Fazl, the famous historian of Akbar's court, mentions a symposium of philosophers of all faiths held in 1578 at Akbar's insistence. Some Cārvāka thinkers are said to have participated in this symposium.[14]
Under the heading "Nastika," Abul Fazl has referred to the good work, judicious administration, and welfare schemes that were emphasized by the Cārvāka lawmakers. Somadeva has also mentioned the Cārvāka method of defeating the enemies of the nation. However, the so called peasant religions or opinions never told that you should not live happily, rather they said that the means of happiness is giving up which goes in contradiction to carvaka, who said the material pleasure are enough to give happiness to the material body.
PS the same peaceful societies get their peace by occupying defenseless nations.
Orleander
08-03-08, 04:09 PM
yes i understand that, but i still dont see the pint in it all. ....
because some people have such pointless crappy lives that its nice to know that someone somewhere loves them. That at some point in their life it will get better.
Yes, its lame, yes its a crutch, but it is what it is. I would never take hope away from anyone just to make myself feel smarter/superior.
because some people have such pointless crappy lives that its nice to know that someone somewhere loves them. That at some point in their life it will get better.
Yes, its lame, yes its a crutch, but it is what it is. I would never take hope away from anyone just to make myself feel smarter/superior.
Your daughter has a pointless crappy life?
Orleander
08-03-08, 04:14 PM
LOL, considering all the wailing that went on this morning when I made her make her bed, she would tell you yes.
She doesn't need religion, she just likes it. There are many people that do need it and I understand that.
What the hell is organic atheism ?
because some people have such pointless crappy lives that its nice to know that someone somewhere loves them. That at some point in their life it will get better.
Yes, its lame, yes its a crutch, but it is what it is. I would never take hope away from anyone just to make myself feel smarter/superior.
It is not taking hope away.
Dryzalaxean
08-04-08, 12:29 AM
after all that ive read im still not convinced... i beleive that without religion humans can actuly thrive to a point to where we can ensure our survival. people need to realize that there is no life after death, there is no heaven or hell.. its just death... our mentle stte ceases to exist. as for the morals, that is comon sence, we dont need to be preached about it, as long as weretaught at a young age on what is right and wrong and understand it... we will b set. there is so much bullshit goin on in this country caused by religion, in the work-space, in schools, and in our goverment. in the history of religion and war... nearly 80% of all wars were started by religion... and out of that 80% nearly 75% of that was caused by people trying to convert others to theyre religion.
Eidolan
08-04-08, 12:51 AM
I do not think wars are started by religion. I believe wars are justified by religion. Wars start for economic reasons.
Some people have religion to meet emotional needs, such as the need to be accepted. Some people need religion in order to not feel lonely. Others desire a sense of higher purpose.
I am religious for self improvement. I need religion to get past some troubles that I have had and be happy.
KennyJC
08-04-08, 02:33 AM
What the hell is organic atheism ?
It's when atheism occurrs in society without it being forced by dictatorships. ie. communism.
But they cannot form a successful society on their own. I think its because they lack a basic understanding of what religion contributes to society.
Well it's unfair to assume atheists could not start a society on their own since there were no atheists when civilisation was beginning.
Society is better with high levels of 'organic' atheism, so even if they couldn't be there when civilisation was beginning, they are certainly improving a society that was handed to them by religious folk.
PS the same peaceful societies get their peace by occupying defenseless nations.
I wouldn't call America or the UK as the best example of peaceful societies. And it's worth noting that America (90% religious) probably 90% of citizens supported the Iraq war whereas about 50% of the uk (50% religious) was largly against it.
I'm spotting a trend.
Dryzalaxean
08-04-08, 03:05 AM
i sence an arguement in the mist >.>
River Ape
08-04-08, 03:16 AM
http://www.avignon-et-provence.com/avignon-tourisme/pont-avignon/img/pont-avignon-02.jpg
The pont in religion must surely be the famous Pont d'Avignon
which was built in response to the command of angels
in the town that belonged to the Popes
was the home of the Popes during the 14th Century
and only became French territory in 1791.
As you can see, it doesn't really lead anywhere!
It's when atheism occurrs in society without it being forced by dictatorships. ie. communism.
Thanks Kenny :)
Spud Emperor
08-04-08, 06:37 AM
You can only see the Pont if you're catholic.
I dont get it, don't you.
Thanks Kenny :)
The Dutch are hardly examples of peace. :rolleyes:
From colonizing to the "intervention" in Afghanistan, they have never been able to keep out of other peoples freedoms.
The biggest massacres in the world in the world have been by atheists. All their attempts at creating a society have been failures. And yet, they expect people to have faith in their ability to do it. Based on what?
I dont see the pont in religion
There is a difference between religion and faith.
Jan Ardena
08-04-08, 03:12 PM
You actually have a place called athiest.org? What do they talk about? All the things they don't believe in?
Uh apparently not. :eek:
http://www.atheists.org/
lol!
:roflmao:
SAM's drive at atheists is only funny for theists.
Crunchy Cat
08-04-08, 03:24 PM
honestly i dont... every time i mention someting bout me bein anti-religous. people call me satanis and shyt like that... i am former satanist, but now i just hate all religions.. it brings nothing to ou society but discusion and arguement. there is no god, there is no devil, theres no reasonto get down to our knees and worship anything. if humans get rid of religion it wll pen the doors to so any options and opertunities, more time to think about how we can better our lives and help our race survive in this universe. but with religion in the way we spend too much time worrying bout if its right or wrong to learn certain things. id say we'd b better with out it.
All humans have a wide array of psychologial needs ranging from socialization to identity and religion is a quick and easy path towards meeting alot of those needs.
There is no need for religion . you can be civil ,good and successful with no religion at all .
religion is a myth full of contradictions and it became a mixture of politics ,business ,control ,power and other agendas . Certainly one day we shall have no religion at all since people will see that religion is a mere hoax .
Medicine*Woman
08-04-08, 06:07 PM
There is no need for religion. you can be civil ,good and successful with no religion at all.
religion is a myth full of contradictions and it became a mixture of politics ,business ,control ,power and other agendas. Certainly one day we shall have no religion at all since people will see that religion is a mere hoax.
*************
M*W: That's where religion is heading (at least the hoax of christianity). It's about time. I only hope to see it in my lifetime.
There is huge point in religion. It is an affirmation of man's ideas; it is a guide to right and wrong. Without it, there would be no morality.
There is much morality outside religion . Religion does not show you what is right and what is wrong . If you have a conscience you will know the difference between the two .
Medicine*Woman
08-04-08, 10:00 PM
*************
M*W: Off topic, but Norsefire, have you battened down your hatches waiting for Eduordo? Is there anybody else out there in sciforums land who is in the path of the storm in the Gulf? Let me hear from you! In the meantime, I'll be shutting down my computer. Stay dry!
~ M*W
nietzschefan
08-04-08, 10:01 PM
honestly i dont... every time i mention someting bout me bein anti-religous. people call me satanis and shyt like that... i am former satanist, but now i just hate all religions.. it brings nothing to ou society but discusion and arguement. there is no god, there is no devil, theres no reasonto get down to our knees and worship anything. if humans get rid of religion it wll pen the doors to so any options and opertunities, more time to think about how we can better our lives and help our race survive in this universe. but with religion in the way we spend too much time worrying bout if its right or wrong to learn certain things. id say we'd b better with out it.
Crowd control.
Eidolan
08-04-08, 11:29 PM
So what would a lack of religion entail? Would everyone be agnostic?
Would everyone be agnostic?
I would think so.
Dryzalaxean
08-04-08, 11:56 PM
no, i see no name for it... not agnstic, not atheist... just humans behaving the way we should be, the way evolution brought us up to be... personaly, i just want peace in the world.. for man kind to get along for once in history... not fight over whs gods better, or whos lands bigger, or who has the most money... we all just need to swallow our pride, get rid of our beleifs, and actuly work together to help our kind, our planet, and our universe... now let me ask you... is that honestly too much to ask for? is it?
River Ape
08-05-08, 03:08 AM
no, i see no name for it... not agnstic, not atheist... just humans behaving the way we should be, the way evolution brought us up to be... personaly, i just want peace in the world.. for man kind to get along for once in history... not fight over whs gods better, or whos lands bigger, or who has the most money... we all just need to swallow our pride, get rid of our beleifs, and actuly work together to help our kind, our planet, and our universe... now let me ask you... is that honestly too much to ask for? is it?
The way evolution brought us up was to fight one another for survival of the fittest.
That includes the fittest beliefs.
So then we have not evolved at all.
Jan Ardena
08-05-08, 11:34 AM
SAM's drive at atheists is only funny for theists.
Funny is funny.
Don't you see the irony in that link?
jan.
Dryzalaxean
08-07-08, 01:10 AM
no we havent.. we just fooled ourselves that we have evoled more than before, only beacuse we developed language and we have technology
Norsefire
08-07-08, 01:21 AM
*************
M*W: Off topic, but Norsefire, have you battened down your hatches waiting for Eduordo? Is there anybody else out there in sciforums land who is in the path of the storm in the Gulf? Let me hear from you! In the meantime, I'll be shutting down my computer. Stay dry!
~ M*W
Turns out it was nothing to worry about:)
Syzygys
08-07-08, 08:39 AM
honestly i dont...
Just because you don't see the point of something, it doesn't mean there is no point for others.
I don't see the point of Nascar, but millions love it....
EmptyForceOfChi
08-07-08, 08:46 AM
honestly i dont... every time i mention someting bout me bein anti-religous. people call me satanis and shyt like that... i am former satanist, but now i just hate all religions...
lol, I could not possibly comprehend why they would call you that how strange. :bugeye:
it brings nothing to ou society but discusion and arguement. there is no god, there is no devil, theres no reasonto get down to our knees and worship anything. if humans get rid of religion it wll pen the doors to so any options and opertunities, more time to think about how we can better our lives and help our race survive in this universe. but with religion in the way we spend too much time worrying bout if its right or wrong to learn certain things. id say we'd b better with out it
It brings many people happiness and hope for the future, religion can be used in a positive or negative way depending on the person or group as individuals making choices. Anything in the hands of humans can be destructive or dangerous I dont see how being a moderate muslim, christian or buddhist is harming people, but it does give those believersjoy and hope, and also meaning.
peace.
*************
M*W: Off topic, but Norsefire, have you battened down your hatches waiting for Eduordo? Is there anybody else out there in sciforums land who is in the path of the storm in the Gulf? Let me hear from you! In the meantime, I'll be shutting down my computer. Stay dry!
~ M*W
Its just all in the master plan.:)
KennyJC
08-07-08, 01:37 PM
It brings many people happiness and hope for the future, religion can be used in a positive or negative way depending on the person or group as individuals making choices. Anything in the hands of humans can be destructive or dangerous I dont see how being a moderate muslim, christian or buddhist is harming people, but it does give those believersjoy and hope, and also meaning.
Yeah, well said, well said.
Oh no, wait... You're talking crap.
Do you realize how many posts I read on this forum that cite the "joy, hope, meaning"? Too fucking much.
Honestly, if you keep repeating that, I may start to believe it and desperately start charging to the nearest place of worship to see if I can find whatever it is this mean old atheist is missing. Because that's the ace religion has up it's sleeve doesn't it? Makes people believe they have to belong to it or be missing out on something important.
As for the moderate crap. If there were no moderates then there'd be no fundamentalists. And even if there were fundamentalists and no moderates, we could more easily battle fundamentalism and tolerate none of it. But with all the moderates in the way the rational line becomes blurred, and we actually start pandering to these loons.
EmptyForceOfChi
08-10-08, 07:11 PM
Yeah, well said, well said.
Oh no, wait... You're talking crap.
Do you realize how many posts I read on this forum that cite the "joy, hope, meaning"? Too fucking much.
Honestly, if you keep repeating that, I may start to believe it and desperately start charging to the nearest place of worship to see if I can find whatever it is this mean old atheist is missing. Because that's the ace religion has up it's sleeve doesn't it? Makes people believe they have to belong to it or be missing out on something important.
As for the moderate crap. If there were no moderates then there'd be no fundamentalists. And even if there were fundamentalists and no moderates, we could more easily battle fundamentalism and tolerate none of it. But with all the moderates in the way the rational line becomes blurred, and we actually start pandering to these loons.
If you can find a way to have faith in eternal life and God and truley believe it's real you will feel good. put some effort into finding god and lose the attitude, let god into your life. I can't fully believe yet but I experienced that feeling for a short period, I realised people need a connection with god to experience true happiness, wel also have to make the connection on our side. Just give it a try or something I can't prove god to anybody, I can only prove Gods existence to myself, just like the rest of you.
People should be allowed to live life as they please aslong as they don't harm others, try to help each other instead of take from each other. we all have our own path to finding God, extreamists who choose to harm others do not respect life or god. Each person has to strive to be good not just read ancient texts and listen blindly to written words. If people go to war over religion then they are stupid and ignorant, Atheists, and all sub-types of Theists need to come together and work on improving this planet and achieving some amazing things. I don't think bickering is worthwhile, what would we achieve that is productive, we could share knowledge, insight, thoughts and things we observe, that way wisdom can be shared but we should try to help one another instead of oppose.
peace.
KennyJC
08-11-08, 10:46 AM
If you can find a way to have faith in eternal life and God and truley believe it's real you will feel good. put some effort into finding god and lose the attitude, let god into your life. I can't fully believe yet but I experienced that feeling for a short period, I realised people need a connection with god to experience true happiness, wel also have to make the connection on our side. Just give it a try or something I can't prove god to anybody, I can only prove Gods existence to myself, just like the rest of you.
How is it I know this feeling you experienced for a short period? Could this be because I'm a fucking human being just like you? Could this be the same feeling Richard Dawkins opened with in "The God Delusion"? The difference between me and you is that I don't need bullshit to be the enabler of these so-called transcendental feelings. It has nothing to do with god, nothing to do with faith.
You are barking up the wrong tree and looking like a fool in the process.
The problem is that everyone is deluded. I would go so far as to say that an individual would have a very rough time surviving without it. In 90% of the cases religion is a minor delusion in that it does not have a negative impact on one's life.
And in fact may not be a delusion at all. I am really undecided on where\with whom this particular delusion lies. Is Dawkins deluded, was Darwin deluded? I cannot say with 100% certainty.
Norsefire
08-11-08, 05:52 PM
Dawkins and Darwin could very well be deluded; why? They use reason. Now, you may ask "well, how are they deluded then"? Think about it though: by using "reason", they confine themselves only to what they can sense and only the material world around them. Therefore, for all we know, there is a God specifically deluding them into believe there is no God! That's an irrational and illogical theory...........but that's exactly the point!
KennyJC
08-11-08, 06:40 PM
I get it... You're saying the more we understand the world around us, the more delusional we are becoming. Great logic!
:bravo:
Norsefire
08-11-08, 06:46 PM
I get it... You're saying the more we understand the world around us, the more delusional we are becoming. Great logic!
No, but what I am saying is, how do we know we aren't "understanding" precisely what something wants us to understand? i.e, we "understand" the world only on a path, as in, we are lead to "understand" the world from only a single point.
Cyperium
08-12-08, 06:10 AM
honestly i dont... every time i mention someting bout me bein anti-religous. people call me satanis and shyt like that... i am former satanist, but now i just hate all religions.. it brings nothing to ou society but discusion and arguement. there is no god, there is no devil, theres no reasonto get down to our knees and worship anything. if humans get rid of religion it wll pen the doors to so any options and opertunities, more time to think about how we can better our lives and help our race survive in this universe. but with religion in the way we spend too much time worrying bout if its right or wrong to learn certain things. id say we'd b better with out it.Just live your life. The reason comes when it comes. Actually everything comes when it comes. Don't worry so much.
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