Can Sound Waves Boil water at overunity efficiency with specific frequency of sound?

[Sci-guy]

The full Question is:
Can Sound Waves Boil water at overunity efficiency if the sound generated is at waters resonance?

I have been watching this video on youtube (link below) and found various articles describing this device developed by a New Zealand man, Peter Davey, which boils water within around 10 seconds and is exceedingly efficient because it doesn't expend energy boiling water that evaporates over the course it is boiled. I calculated some numbers I found regarding this device. It runs on about 20 Watts, and can boil 100 grams of water in ten seconds from what i have been able to surmise. Also the validity of this device may seem quesitonable coming from youtube, but it is a recording of a New Zealand news broadcast, so then question of the validity of the New Zealand media.

Input energy:
P = W/t
20Watts = W/10
200 Joules

Output energy:
Q = mc(deltaT)
Q = (100g)(4.18)(100 C - 25C)
31350 joules

First I felt that the excess energy was produced by a chemical reaction induced by the sound in the breaking of the polar covalent bonds of water to form hydrogen and oxygen, but with further investigation I found that:
H2 + 1/2 O2 --> H2O + Heat
This disproves the theory that water breaking down can be accredited with the excess heat produced since it is an endothermic reaction.

I then also calculated the change in mass that would occur to determine if this device works on the principles claimed (that were disproved) by Dr. B. Stanley Pons and Dr. Martin Fleischmann regarding the ability to induce a fusion reaction at room temperature. There are some discrepancies though between the alleged device of 1989 and this sonic boiler, in that the fusion experiment of 1989 used Heavy Water, where as this sonic boiler uses tap water, and the 1989 experiment makes no note of inducing this reaction with sound.

E = mcc
(31,500 - 200 joules) = m(9.00 *10^16)
m = 3.461111 * 10^-13 grams
So If the excess heat induced by sound is produced by fusion then the intial 100 grams of water would experience a loss in mass of 3.461111* 10^-13 grams.

Any conclusions or ideas of what could be occuring?
What is the resonance of water?
Is this even possible?
Is equitment avaliable to test this, such as an adjustable tunning fork that goes from high to low frequencies?

LINK: youtube.com/watch?v=5JrpdVZyt_s[/url]

P.S. Sorry for the crazy long post, but I wanted to prevent anyone from doing more work then necessary to answer/provide input.

[Vkothii]

it is a recording of a New Zealand news broadcast, so then question of the validity of the New Zealand media.
The "integrity" of the NZ media is very much like that of media organisations everywhere. The criteria have bugger-all to do with hard science, and everything to do with "a story" - even if the story is out there.
For example, recently a reporter interviewed someone in NZ who claims they can run a car on H20, after extracting hydrogen from it, or something. I watched the interview but so few details were given (it's all rather hush-hush of course) I had no real idea what the working principle is. There has been a fair queue of dudes with similar claims, throughout the history of the combustion engine, and often these ideas seem to pop up when oil is scarce - like during global wars, oil shortages or high prices.

Perhaps those are the only real things involved, though. I reserve judgement, but no previous claim of combustion of H20 in a heat-cycle engine has yet emerged as a real working machine, that I know about anyway.

[cosmictraveler]

Please watch this video to see radio waves make hydrogen for very cheap amount of electricity.

http://runyourcarwithwater.org/

[Cannon]

yes, all things have a particular resonance. It can be figured by the number of oscilations at the speed of light over one meter. As such barium is like 39 ish with like 14 decimals.

[Cannon]

this goes back to tesla.

[Myles]

When I want to make a cup of tea I shout at my kettle till the water boils.

[Sci-guy]

I have continued to search for answers on some forums of questionable credibility, but despite my lack of faith in their validity, they seem to have been qualified in the field of electronics.
Here Are some of the forums that have had extensive experience with the replication and testing of this device.

energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1414-daveys-water-heater.html

overunity.com/index.php/topic,4083.0.html

IN both forums the user that started the thread provided a reasource to begin the discussion with. THe first site listed requires you to be a memeber to view it but on the second site it is accessable. The reasource from he second site contains a more detailed description of the Sonic boiler in addition to other aclaimed overunity heaters. IF you scroll down in the pdf you will find a schematic of the Boiler with the only complete description I have ever seen, describing all the aspects of the machine.
Although the second site provide a better source for discussion, the first sites forum members were able to constructivly go farther by acctually building and testing the device, and finding strange occurances with it that I attribute to electrolysis and oxidation. The only aspect that the forum failed to do was find a method to properly tune the device to 50Hz which is the alledged frequency that water resonates at and high efficiency is achieved.

One user made a suggestion but it was never carried out here is an excerpt: (from the first link, user elias)

"I didn't get time to tune one, But I would recommend you building or buying a variable frequency AC power supply for this purpose. This would make it much easier to tune it. The article says that he has worked on it years to make it operate like this, we don't want to spend years to make a device be able to operate at exactly 50 Hz. So It is more wise to build it and make the adjustments to the frequency instead of the device itself to see at what frequency the current draw drops, as it seems that should drop at a certain frequency."

Is this a viable solution to the problem of tuning the Boiler? IF so where the hell would I find one? (cheaply, I don't have a money growing wallet)

[Read-Only]

I have continued to search for answers on some forums of questionable credibility, but despite my lack of faith in their validity, they seem to have been qualified in the field of electronics.
Here Are some of the forums that have had extensive experience with the replication and testing of this device.

energeticforum.com/renewable-energy/1414-daveys-water-heater.html

overunity.com/index.php/topic,4083.0.html

IN both forums the user that started the thread provided a reasource to begin the discussion with. THe first site listed requires you to be a memeber to view it but on the second site it is accessable. The reasource from he second site contains a more detailed description of the Sonic boiler in addition to other aclaimed overunity heaters. IF you scroll down in the pdf you will find a schematic of the Boiler with the only complete description I have ever seen, describing all the aspects of the machine.
Although the second site provide a better source for discussion, the first sites forum members were able to constructivly go farther by acctually building and testing the device, and finding strange occurances with it that I attribute to electrolysis and oxidation. The only aspect that the forum failed to do was find a method to properly tune the device to 50Hz which is the alledged frequency that water resonates at and high efficiency is achieved.

One user made a suggestion but it was never carried out here is an excerpt: (from the first link, user elias)

"I didn't get time to tune one, But I would recommend you building or buying a variable frequency AC power supply for this purpose. This would make it much easier to tune it. The article says that he has worked on it years to make it operate like this, we don't want to spend years to make a device be able to operate at exactly 50 Hz. So It is more wise to build it and make the adjustments to the frequency instead of the device itself to see at what frequency the current draw drops, as it seems that should drop at a certain frequency."

Is this a viable solution to the problem of tuning the Boiler? IF so where the hell would I find one? (cheaply, I don't have a money growing wallet)

Not one of those people have any idea what they are talking about. The resonance frequency of water is VERY high - up in the microwave region (which, by the way, is the basis upon which ordinary microwave ovens operate on.)

And here's another hard, fast and accurate rule for you to consider. Anyone who claims to have invented an over-unity device is either a fool or a con artist. (People have been bilked out of millions of dollars by J.V. Naudin and his like.) Any - and I repeat ANY - such device would violate the laws of thermodynamics - and there's no getting around that.

[AlphaNumeric]

The US patent office will not accept any patent for anything to do with free energy o over unity machines or perpetual motion machines unless the inventor can prove said machine has been running for at least a year without being 'plugged in' or filled with petrol etc.

Nothing yet.

[EndLightEnd]

Any - and I repeat ANY - such device would violate the laws of thermodynamics - and there's no getting around that.

Right. Just like there was absolutely NO WAY anything heavier than air could fly. Or no way the Earth is round otherwise wed be able to see it.

Dont you people realize that current limitations are just gaps in knowledge?

I acknowledge the current laws of physics makes this impossible, but the physics we have now wont be the physics 100 years from now, so saying ANYTHING is impossible is making the claim you know exactly how EVERYTHING works. Only god (if he exists) can make that claim my friend.

[AlphaNumeric]

Someone once said

"If you go against Newton, you're common place. If you go against quantum mechanics, you're bold. If you go against relativity you're daring. If you go against thermodynamics, you're wrong".

[EndLightEnd]

Someone once said

"If you go against Newton, you're common place. If you go against quantum mechanics, you're bold. If you go against relativity you're daring. If you go against thermodynamics, you're wrong".

Some one once said "Its impossible to anything heavier than air to fly"
Your point?

[Read-Only]

Right. Just like there was absolutely NO WAY anything heavier than air could fly. Or no way the Earth is round otherwise wed be able to see it.

Dont you people realize that current limitations are just gaps in knowledge?

I acknowledge the current laws of physics makes this impossible, but the physics we have now wont be the physics 100 years from now, so saying ANYTHING is impossible is making the claim you know exactly how EVERYTHING works. Only god (if he exists) can make that claim my friend.

Yeah, right! You just keep on believing that we can violate the principles in the laws of thermodynamics and see what it gets you. Those are fundamental principles and TOTALLY unlike the other rather silly things you've tried to compare them to.

Tell me - seriolusly - do you actually understand the three basic laws of thermodynamics anyway? It would appear that you clearly do not.

[Sci-guy]

Not one of those people have any idea what they are talking about. The resonance frequency of water is VERY high - up in the microwave region (which, by the way, is the basis upon which ordinary microwave ovens operate on.)

And here's another hard, fast and accurate rule for you to consider. Anyone who claims to have invented an over-unity device is either a fool or a con artist. (People have been bilked out of millions of dollars by J.V. Naudin and his like.) Any - and I repeat ANY - such device would violate the laws of thermodynamics - and there's no getting around that.

Well to first address the begining of your statement, if you read further or any at all you would understand that your not tunning the sound projected by the device to be 50Hz but the sound that travels through the metal spheres to be 50Hz so that when it changes mediums (metal to water) the properties of the sound wave will also change.

Second with regard to the law of thermodynamics, nothing is set in stone and no law of science is safe from question. Look at the radical evolution of our perception of the atom across the past century, from the plum pudding model to the electron cloud model. Even the name of the atom has become a fallacy because the atom is no longer the known smallest unit of exsistance as its name suggests, it has been replaced by the quark. If all scientists were as stubborn as you then our current society would not only be our present society but our future one to, becasue no progress can be made when you don't explore the unexplored.

EndlightEnd is right in saying that science is an ever changing field, that will not and should not retain its laws throughout the ages.

"Science is a series of judgments, revised without ceasing."

William Hazlitt understood that "Science is the desire to know causes" and thats what I wanted to do with this thread, know the cause if any of this occurance. I never said that energy was coming from no where, but rather asked where it was coming from (chemical reactions, table top fusion). By continually posting that this is a fraud you are doing nothing but hindering any progress we could be making to acctually determining the validity of this claim. If you believe this is truely a sham then there is no need to comment because we will eventually come to the same conclusion if you are correct, read-only. But if you are wrong then you may have dampened the possibity of another great invention and another essential revision needed in the laws of science.

[Oli]

Some one once said "Its impossible to anything heavier than air to fly"
Your point?

A mis-quote, which was a statement of engineering ability, not scientific knowledge...

[AlphaNumeric]

Some one once said "Its impossible to anything heavier than air to fly"
Your point?The fact we couldn't build something isn't the same as excluding something as impossible on fundamental grounds. We don't know how to build a 10 mile high building but that doesn't mean it cannot be done in principle. Getting over unity energy output is excluded by every theory which describes energy.

[Steve100]

Maybe there is some sort of hidden energy in this.
Or it could just be lies about the overtunity.

[EndLightEnd]

Every theory has made by men (who make mistakes all the time).
Our scope of experience is limited not only by the VERY small part of the universe we live in, but also by our fundamental biological limits (such as seeing only part of the electromagnetic spectrum).
And for you to sit here and tell me we can know ANYTHING for certain is just ludicrous for me. Science is changing all the time with new evidence, surely you must recognize this. Given enough time, who says we cant prove that wrong one day?
A little imagination wouldnt hurt you ya know.

[Steve100]

Every theory has made by men (who make mistakes all the time).
Our scope of experience is limited not only by the VERY small part of the universe we live in, but also by our fundamental biological limits (such as seeing only part of the electromagnetic spectrum).
And for you to sit here and tell me we can know ANYTHING for certain is just ludicrous for me. Science is changing all the time with new evidence, surely you must recognize this. Given enough time, who says we cant prove that wrong one day?
A little imagination wouldnt hurt you ya know.

Good call.

[Oli]

Every theory has made by men (who make mistakes all the time).
ALL the time?
They're not even right now and again?


Science is changing all the time with new evidence, surely you must recognize this.
Except, of course, for the bits that aren't.
The laws of thermodynamics have held up pretty well so far, and now some woo-woo (correction: ANOTHER woo-woo) comes along, says he's beaten them and (once again) fails to produce any hard evidence...

What I find interesting is that the guy "boils" the water while it's in a glass, which remains in one piece. Strange...

[Sci-guy]

No one here ever stated that this device acctually drew energy from absolutly nothing defying thermodynamics and equlaibrium of mass and energy. The title of this post regarding overunity efficiency was just used to stimulate people to read and comment, considering the first post was nothing but a mathmatical attempt to explain where the energy comes from. I jsut wanted to know if we could determine the source of energy the machine is drawing upon, if it is in fact any currently known energy source.

There are plenty of sources it could be drawing from, such as vacuum energy (i doubt it, but theres little reason to disregard the possiblity). There are multiple sources of energy in the universe that we know exsist, such as vacuum energy, but have not yet found a mechanism to harness the energy. The fact that people claim it is an overunity device tarnishes the devices reputation and discredits it from further scrutinization. This thread is ment to over come this and determine the true source of the devices energy, if it is at all valid.

[Read-Only]

Well to first address the begining of your statement, if you read further or any at all you would understand that your not tunning the sound projected by the device to be 50Hz but the sound that travels through the metal spheres to be 50Hz so that when it changes mediums (metal to water) the properties of the sound wave will also change.

Second with regard to the law of thermodynamics, nothing is set in stone and no law of science is safe from question. Look at the radical evolution of our perception of the atom across the past century, from the plum pudding model to the electron cloud model. Even the name of the atom has become a fallacy because the atom is no longer the known smallest unit of exsistance as its name suggests, it has been replaced by the quark. If all scientists were as stubborn as you then our current society would not only be our present society but our future one to, becasue no progress can be made when you don't explore the unexplored.


The REAL problem is that when someone like you comes along who knows so little science to begin with, anything seem possible. I'm all for exploring the unexplored. But every single thing you mentioned (above) in NO WAY changed even the slightest physical law. You totally fail to recognize that there is no comparison between an improvement in physical understanding and physical law. Yes, our understand of the structure of the atom has improved but again NO law was changed as a result.

And to make the point even clearer about your level of understanding of scientific/physical things please explain this absurdity that you wrote above:

"...if you read further or any at all you would understand that your not tunning the sound projected by the device to be 50Hz but the sound that travels through the metal spheres to be 50Hz so that when it changes mediums (metal to water) the properties of the sound wave will also change."

That makes NO sense at all. What leads you to believe such nonsense as that??

[Sci-guy]

And to make the point even clearer about your level of understanding of scientific/physical things please explain this absurdity that you wrote above:

"...if you read further or any at all you would understand that your not tunning the sound projected by the device to be 50Hz but the sound that travels through the metal spheres to be 50Hz so that when it changes mediums (metal to water) the properties of the sound wave will also change."

That makes NO sense at all. What leads you to believe such nonsense as that??

Have you ever heard of index of refraction? The properties of a wave, its frequency and wavelength, change when it enters a new medium(substance) of a different density according to the formula:
velocity = lambda*frequency

When sound changes mediums (from steel to water) its velocity changes based on whether it is entering a medium of higher density or lower density. In the instance of sound changing from a metal medium to a water medium, it goes from a higher density to a lower density so its velocity increases. If its velocity increases then according to the equation above (which is based on those scientific laws that you hold to be infallible and everlasting) then the frequency and wavelength must increase to account for the increase in velocity. If you are a scientist who hasn't heard of this, then your either over a century old and haven't read these "new" discoveries which you probably mark as lies or your like tom cruise and bought a college degree.

So take your pick either I am wrong along with those scientific laws that in your perspective can never be incorrect or you are wrong.

But every single thing you mentioned (above) in NO WAY changed even the slightest physical law. You totally fail to recognize that there is no comparison between an improvement in physical understanding and physical law. Yes, our understand of the structure of the atom has improved but again NO law was changed as a result.

So read-only are you to say though that no law in human history of science has ever been changed? If that was so then we would still be developing theroy's around why Aristole's laws of the Universe don't mathematically work and the contributions of Kepler and Galileo would have never exsisted. Also we would only acknowledge the exsistance of Aristotle's five elements (fire, earth, water, air, and aether) as the people of europe did for nearly a millennium.

[Oli]

So read-only are you to say though that no law in human history of science has ever been changed? If that was so then we would still be developing theroy's around why Aristole's laws of the Universe don't mathematically work and the contributions of Kepler and Galileo would have never exsisted. Also we would only acknowledge the exsistance of Aristotle's five elements (fire, earth, water, air, and aether) as the people of europe did for nearly a millennium.

Name a law that has been changed (as opposed to refined or expanded).
You class Aristotle as science?
Learn some history and what defines science.

(Incidentally I find it highly amusing that your edits state the reason is "spelling". Would that be to introduce or correct errors?)

[AlphaNumeric]

Having watched the video, it looks very suspect. The water in the glass is already hot, you can see the condensation it forms on the glass. If it's cold to the touch, why does he have insultation on the device to pick it up?

The only way I'd take any of that seriously was if he provided a video of him using a thermometer to show the temperature of the water and the device at the start is 'normal' (10C for the water, 25C for the device) and he attached a power metre to the plug of the device. Then he runs it for a while and then measures it again and calculates the energy change in the water and compares it to the energy reading on the device. Then it doesn't matter how the device works, if it takes more power from the mains then it gives the water, it's BS.

If the device is heating water at 95C to boiling because it's at 200C already (which is entirely possible, since there's no rigour in the video) then it's doing nothing but taking up the end of a news story. In Wales we get BS like "What are goats wearing to keep themselves warm during the winter month?". Obviously this NZ news company just indulged a nutty old man.

[Sci-guy]

Name a law that has been changed (as opposed to refined or expanded).
You class Aristotle as science?
Learn some history and what defines science.

(

It is internationally recognized in the field of European history that Aristotle's laws of the universe was science, and if you knew anything about history you would know that science was orginally a branch of philosphy and religion called natural philosphy. So I don't know how you think science was born. Do you really think some random person just said I am going to observe and record things to further our development of technology? Are you that nieve?

columbia.edu/cu/augustine/a/science_origin.html[/url]

Science started because we wanted to further our physical knowledge of god's influence which is why Aristotle included all of his known universal spheres (planets) in a geocentric model that he assumed was the entire universe and then assumed further that since he couldn't see any farther that must be heaven. This provided a physical area of heavens exsistance and reaffirmed the beliefs of the Catholic Church which is why it was condoned.

Then Galileo came along and in an attempt to confirm Aristotle, he studied the universe with more advanced avaliable technology than that of aristotle and found him to be wrong. Galileo then publisehd his book Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief world systems which then supported Coperincus' theory rather than Aristotle's as he intially intented. It was only because he intially intended to support Aristotle that the Papal Inquisition approved the distribution of the book, thinking that he acctually supported Aristotle.

It all comes to the limitations of technology. Aristotle in his time with his available knowledge was right. We today with out limited understanding of the Universe are right. But if we knew everything then how come break throughs everyday are being made with thin flim solar cells, thermolectric substances, nano scale electronics. If our laws were so applicable to all objects then how come computers work on the micro scale but not on the nanoscale? How come our chemical reactions work on the macro level differnetly then the nano? Are these just exceptions? Well thats how it started with Aristotle. Kepler found a mathematical exception, and from that point on the laws of Aristotle became obsolete.

And by the way, I do have horrible spelling. As a freshman in college i entered with 21 history credits, 18 science and mathematics credits, and only 9 english credits. So english is my weak point, and the fact that I placed out of english in college didn't aid the situation.

[Oli]

Internationally recognised?
Oh goody.
That makes it a hard fact then. :rolleyes:
It's still not science (by the definition of science - repeatability, falsifiability etc etc) which is what I was getting at.
Aristotle was right?
Not demonstrably so, even at the time.
He often eschewed actual experimentation (and in some cases observation) in favour of thought and perceived elegance.

Um, Aristotle reaffirmed the beliefs of the Catholic church?

[Sci-guy]

[QUOTE=AlphaNumeric;1942540]
The only way I'd take any of that seriously was if he provided a video of him using a thermometer to show the temperature of the water and the device at the start is 'normal' (10C for the water, 25C for the device) and he attached a power metre to the plug of the device. Then he runs it for a while and then measures it again and calculates the energy change in the water and compares it to the energy reading on the device. Then it doesn't matter how the device works, if it takes more power from the mains then it gives the water, it's BS.

QUOTE]


Well due to the absence of the thermometers and recording equitment I thought it might just be a cold steam trick. I remember these devices that changed the pressure of water to produce steam that was cold and give the water the apperance of boiling without acctually being at 100 degrees celcuis and in STP conditions. I thought it could be this but I don't know how sound or a circuit using the water as its resistor alter the pressure so rapidly.

[Sci-guy]

Internationally recognised?
Oh goody.
That makes it a hard fact then. :rolleyes:
It's still not science (by the definition of science - repeatability, falsifiability etc etc) which is what I was getting at.
Aristotle was right?
Not demonstrably so, even at the time.
He often eschewed actual experimentation (and in some cases observation) in favour of thought and perceived elegance.

Um, Aristotle reaffirmed the beliefs of the Catholic church?

Take your own advice and take european history in college. And by the term internationally recognized, it is meant that historians don't debate in papers that Aristotle's natural philosphy science contributions weren't the foundations for the development of science. But I am sorry your so much more intellegent then the professor of columbia university whos link validates what i stated.

Aristotles work also had to reaffirm the Catholic Church to even be published or it would be blacklisted by the Papal Inquisition who during the middle ages held a firm grasp upon europe since the protestant reformation didn't occur yet. All the rulers required the endorsement of the Papacy since religion was the mechanism of control for the European monarchs. Onoly during the Avignon Papacy did the Catholic Church for over half a century lose its grasp on europe, with the exception of France.

[Oli]

Take your own advice
I didn't offer any.

contributions weren't the foundations for the development of science.
Foundations: yes. Actual science: no.

But I am sorry your so much more intellegent then the professor of columbia university whos link validates what i stated.
Yes it is a shame that a college professor is so much dumber than me.
This probably goes some way to explain American educational standards...

Aristotles work also had to reaffirm the Catholic Church to even be published
Aristotle's work neither affirmed nor contradicted the Catholic church since it prefigured that church.
Whether it was in accord or not with the tenets of the church was something else. :p
It should have been "Do the beliefs of the church accord with known facts?"

[Sci-guy]

Aristotle's work neither affirmed nor contradicted the Catholic church since it prefigured that church.
Whether it was in accord or not with the tenets of the church was something else.
It should have been "Do the beliefs of the church accord with known facts?"

The fact that Aristotle claimed he found a physical place where heaven resides proved the exsistance of heaven (in the eyes of the people) and thus validated the Catholic Beliefs since heavens' existance was a central aspect of obtaining followers.

“ Originally Posted by Sci-guy
Take your own advice ”

I didn't offer any.
Yes you told me to pick up a book and learn history, you may want to try that yourself considering I know enough history as it is. Besides you probably think from your amazing wealth of knowledge you've demonstrated regarding the evolution of religion and science, you probably think the Defenestration of Prague has somethign to do with going to the bathroom.

Originally Posted by Sci-Guy
"So you believe the contributions weren't the foundations for the development of science. ”

Foundations: yes. Actual science: no.

Depends on your definition of actual science. They made observations and conclusions based on their available knowledge. Isn't that the essense of science?

“ But I am sorry your so much more intellegent then the professor of columbia university whos link validates what i stated. ”

Yes it is a shame that a college professor is so much dumber than me.
This probably goes some way to explain American educational standards...

Hey our American standards of education have propelled us further than that of europe. In two hundred and fifty years of existance we have made some of the most imporant contabutions politically and scientifically to the world. Such as the light bulb (object allowing you to see this computer), the atomic bomb (the thing that saved your ass in WWII by allowing us to divert more reasources to defeating Germany), Ben Franklin's study and tests of electricity, the B-2 plane (the mere fear of it haulted any soviet thoughts of a last resort attack on western europe), synthetic rubber (now you don't ahve to grow rubber on a Para tree anymore like an idiot), plastics (need I explain their impact), and the internet (that thing you are using right now).

And above all we have defeated every major european country in war. So if europe is so great how come they are not the un-question rulers of the world? O' right thats becasue they are not great in any aspect. Unless greatness is measured in how obnoxious and conceded a society can be, then i nthat case europe is great.

[Oli]

The fact that Aristotle claimed he found a physical place where heaven resides proved the exsistance of heaven
Claimed?
With what "scientific" evidence?

Yes you told me to pick up a book and learn history
Consider the following:
I'd advise you to... = advice.
Do... = instruction.
I didn't offer advice.

you probably think the Defenestration of Prague has somethign to do with going to the bathroom.
Ad homs now.:rolleyes:
Nope, my linguistic skills are such that I know it means removing all the windows...

Depends on your definition of actual science. They made observations and conclusions based on their available knowledge. Isn't that the essense of science?
Observations which were over-ridden in many cases because the prevailing beliefs didn't accord... therefore not science.
Proto science maybe.
Equivalent to calling Pithecanthropus a modern human.

Hey our American standards of education have propelled us further than that of europe.
It wouldn't have anything to do with
A) immigrants
B) large funding
C) huge population base
as well/ instead of educational levels at all would it?

Such as the light bulb (object allowing you to see this computer)
Er no, it's daylight allowing me to see the computer - who has the lights on at 18:40?

the atomic bomb
No contribution from Einstein (immigrant), Szilard (immigrant), Fermi (need I go on)??

(the thing that saved your ass in WWII by allowing us to divert more reasources to defeating Germany)
Ah the history qualification at work.
Germany was already out the war when the bombs were dropped on Japan...

Ben Franklin's study and tests of electricity
And of course no else in the world had ever studied electricity at all, Galvani, Ampere, Volta...

the B-2 plane (the mere fear of it haulted any soviet thoughts of a last resort attack on western europe)
Really?
No not really.
Soviet military technology literature is fairly dismissive of the B-2 and stealth in general.

synthetic rubber
One

plastics
Parkesine: Alexander Parkes, Birmingham, England

internet
Um, CERN, Tim Berners-Lee?

And above all we have defeated every major european country in war. So if europe is so great how come they are not the un-question rulers of the world? O' right thats becasue they are not great in any aspect. Unless greatness is measured in how obnoxious and conceded a society can be, then i nthat case europe is great.
And "greatness" is measured in military strength?
For information there is no "European society".
You've beaten "every major European country in war"?
Not on your own you haven't.

[Vkothii]

They didn't need to invade Britain, they just waited for someone like Tony Blair to get elected.

[Sci-guy]

It wouldn't have anything to do with
A) immigrants
B) large funding
C) huge population base

A)Mostly, immigrants only come to countries that are better than the ones they are currently in (which is why my ancestors left europe and came to the land of opportunity, America)
B) You have to have a successful economy to have funding, and our country was born into debt, it was only because of the Financial Plans of Alexander Hamilton that we today enjoy the benifits of wealth, so its not as though we were just given financial supremcy we had to earn it)
C) European nations first had larger populations than the United States due to their colonies, but because of our ambitious attitude we expanded westward to facilitate a growth in our population

Er no, it's daylight allowing me to see the computer - who has the lights on at 18:40?

Well if your in the UK specifically London it rains there alot so I wouldn't be suprised if you needed the lights on during the day alot.

Ad homs now.

No an ad hominem argument would require that I attack your character. For instance calling you evil directly. Apparently you barely know your own language.

Observations which were over-ridden in many cases because the prevailing beliefs didn't accord

Their prevailing beliefs didn't accord? Thats not even a full sentance. When you use accord you must specify with what? with each other?
During that tiem with the information avilable, they knew of the exsistance of heaven and it was a resonable assumption for Aristotle to assume that heaven lies byond what he thought was the end of the universe, which turns out to be only the end of the solar system. It was becasue of his technological constraints that he wasn't able to realize the error of his assumption. In science you have to assume alot to make progress and when technology progresses who can discovery whether your assmptions were valid or not. But since technological progression was so slow it was never found to be false in his life time, so it was pressumed to be valid.

No contribution from Einstein (immigrant), Szilard (immigrant), Fermi (need I go on)??

Yes but their research could only have been conducted in the United States because in Europe's infanent wisdom they were designated as outcasts. Its not as though Einstein returned to Europe after WWII. He considered himself an american and retired to long island. It was the american atomsphere of unity against a common enemy that facilitated their success.

"Ah the history qualification at work.
Germany was already out the war when the bombs were dropped on Japan..."

Yes but if you knew something about the manhattan project then you would know that the bomb wasn't concieved, designed, and built overnight.We were planning its creation for many years in response to Germany's possible creation of it. By knowning of its development alongside other weapons we could safely divert resources to europe.

They had to build the largest plutonium producing plants the world will ever see in order to make "fat man". The planning for the production of the bomb was known for almost two years. With this knowledge of the bomb we were able to plan accordingly.
The japanese front had evolved to nothing but a naval war due to the island hopping strategy and we didn't need to keep attacking japan becasue they couldn't retaliate without a navy or air force, they could only defend with their soldiers. With the development of two bombs, the atomic bomb and the bat bomb, we planned to break the will of the japanese and it was only a matter of time.
Since both bombs were in development to deal the killing blow to japan during 1943 and 1944, we could focus more of our ground asessts on europe.
From 1942 to 1945 German industrial production tripled, so unlike the japanese, the german capacity to conduct war was increasing. We diverted our forces to Europe to defeat germany as quickly as possible. Knowing that multiple projects were under development such as the manhatten project and bat bomb project, we were confident that if the japanese were to retaliate then we would have the means to end the war.

Um, CERN, Tim Berners-Lee?

Um, ARPAnet. . . .Charles M. Herzfeld? The first successful transmission over a network was from UCLA to Standford University? Two universities not located in Europe. That was the foundation of the first computer network. Tim Berners-Lee only built upon what they did. Without their experiments the internet would have never been.

You've beaten "every major European country in war"?
Not on your own you haven't.

American Revolution (the french asissted when they said we could prove we could win, if we could prove we could win why woudl we need them) They only helped during the last battle and munitions

War of 1812 (All by ourselves)
Spanish American War ( All by ourselves)
WWII (We had to not only fight German and Italy but also Japan even after the battle of Dunkirk crippled British forces, France was being occupied, and Russian troops were just being used to absorb enemy Ammunition.

[Oli]

A)Mostly, immigrants only come to countries that are better than the ones they are currently in (which is why my ancestors left europe and came to the land of opportunity, America)
B) You have to have a successful economy to have funding, and our country was born into debt, it was only because of the Financial Plans of Alexander Hamilton that we today enjoy the benifits of wealth, so its not as though we were just given financial supremcy we had to earn it)
C) European nations first had larger populations than the United States due to their colonies, but because of our ambitious attitude we expanded westward to facilitate a growth in our population
All of which sort of negate the "superior education"...

Well if your in the UK specifically London it rains there alot so I wouldn't be suprised if you needed the lights on during the day alot.
There's more than London to the UK and of course it does rain here a lot: just like every American is either a hillbilly or a redneck.:rolleyes:

No an ad hominem argument would require that I attack your character. For instance calling you evil directly. Apparently you barely know your own language.
An ad hom is attacking the person - making false assumptions about my education doesn't class as an attack?
Strange...
And again - since when do you consider Latin as my own language?

Their prevailing beliefs didn't accord? Thats not even a full sentance. When you use accord you must specify with what? with each other?
Forgive, I assumed your reading comprehension was such that you could retain the overall meaning of the sentence in your mind while you read... didn't accord with observation. Verb, object, subject....

During that tiem with the information avilable, they knew of the exsistance of heaven and it was a resonable assumption for Aristotle to assume that heaven lies byond what he thought was the end of the universe, which turns out to be only the end of the solar system.
KNEW of the existence og heaven?
Hardly.
And Aristotle was an ancient Greek - he would have therefore gone for Olympus. Top of the mountain, yes?

It was becasue of his technological constraints that he wasn't able to realize the error of his assumption.
No it wasn't: he rearely made experiment or used instruments.

In science you have to assume alot to make progress and when technology progresses who can discovery whether your assmptions were valid or not.
Not assumptions based on unverifiable speculation.

Yes but if you knew something about the manhattan project then you would know that the bomb wasn't concieved, designed, and built overnight.We were planning its creation for many years in response to Germany's possible creation of it. By knowning of its development alongside other weapons we could safely divert resources to europe.
Specious argument to back up your mis-statement.
If money hadn't been poured into the Manhatan Project (which, since I was a nuclear weapons specialist I DO happen to know something about) how much more could have been used against Germany?

With the development of two bombs, the atomic bomb and the bat bomb, we planned to break the will of the japanese and it was only a matter of time.
The Bat? An active radar anti-shipping missile that was used fewer than a dozen times IIRC?

Um, ARPAnet. . . .Charles M. Herzfeld? The first successful transmission over a network was from UCLA to Standford University? Two universities not located in Europe. That was the foundation of the first computer network. Tim Berners-Lee only built upon what they did. Without their experiments the internet would have never been.
Tim Berners-Lee set up the WWW which is actually what we're using....

American Revolution (the french asissted when they said we could prove we could win, if we could prove we could win why woudl we need them) They only helped during the last battle and munitions
And we were also fighting the Dutch at the time...

War of 1812 (All by ourselves)
We were still fighting the French...

Spanish American War ( All by ourselves)
Ooh Spain... I thought you said major powers?

WWII (We had to not only fight German and Italy but also Japan even after the battle of Dunkirk crippled British forces, France was being occupied, and Russian troops were just being used to absorb enemy Ammunition.
All on your own?
Bollocks. And equally bollocks to the "Russian troops were just being used to absorb enemy Ammunition".

[Vkothii]

Some of these Americans seem to be convinced, the world wouldn't be here if not for them.

[Read-Only]

Some of these Americans seem to be convinced, the world wouldn't be here if not for them.

Well, it sure wouldn't be the world as you know it today. For one thing, everybody would probably be speaking German. For another, Jews and Blacks would be close to being exterminated. (The Nazi party saw both as parasites and as sub-human and used them as handy scapegoats - especially the Jews.)

[Sci-guy]

Ooh Spain... I thought you said major powers?
They were strong enough to dominate trade throughout the 1500's and 1600's until the dutch came. Also they were one of the few nations to attempt to invade england. They also held their major american colonial possessions far longer than other European nations.

We were still fighting the French...
Not my fault Britain is hated by numerous nations and you can't effectively manage your foriegn policies so that you don't engage yourself in multiple wars.

All on your own?
Bollocks. And equally bollocks to the "Russian troops were just being used to absorb enemy Ammunition".

Many Russians soldiers were given the option to charge and be shot by the germans or refuse to charge and be shot by their commandign officer for treason. Yes they really know how to win a battle. If it wasn't for the harsh Russian winter, Mussilini's invasion of Greece delaying Germany's invasion of Russia, and that one third of all german troops died from eating a rapid amount of food while starving (German high command found that too many troops died of starvation so they then ordered that they should be feed 3 meals a day which was a mistake becasue when you give a starving man alot of food he dies) then russia would have fallen.

And besides bollocks you provided no rebutle facts. After the Battle of Dunkirk and the full conquest of France, the allies were on the verge of total defeat. Not to mention, as I stated earlier about Germany'stripling its industrial output between 1942 and 1945, Germany was only growing stronger. If it wasn't for full american mobilization then England wouldn't be speaking english anymore.

And we were also fighting the Dutch at the time...

I have never heard that before, I know that you had economic disputes with the Netherlands in that they previously handled all of your naval shipping needs which was substantial since Britain is an island and that you haulted their shipping, but never a military war. This would also be impossible considering you were the allies of the Dutch since the 30 years war when William of Orange was delcared the Dutch Great Protectorate whose duties were to defend the nation. This is one of the few times the French sided with Britian as well, but thats only because of Louie the 12th and 13th were controlled by Cardinal Richelu (spelling inaccurate).

There's more than London to the UK and of course it does rain here a lot: just like every American is either a hillbilly or a redneck.

That has nothing to do with it raining in the UK alot. Also a Redneck and hillebilly are the samething. And i suppose thats like how every British person has bad teeth and thinks their good at soccar.

Forgive, I assumed your reading comprehension was such that you could retain the overall meaning of the sentence in your mind while you read... didn't accord with observation. Verb, object, subject....

That doesn't change the fact that it was a fragment sentence. Ironically you mock me for my poor spelling while you can't even write a sentence.

KNEW of the existence og heaven?
Hardly.
And Aristotle was an ancient Greek - he would have therefore gone for Olympus. Top of the mountain, yes?

He knew the existance of a higher plain, which can be equated to heaven.


No it wasn't: he rearely made experiment or used instruments.

And you know this from the time machine you posess or from your version of history where you fought a war with your ally, the netherlands?

The Bat? An active radar anti-shipping missile that was used fewer than a dozen times IIRC?

No the bat bomb is acctually a brain child of an American dentist who devised a plan to build a bomb that would release bats with incindinary devices during daytime bombing runs. These bats theoretically were suppose to fly with a timed incindinary device into the small dark corners of a japanese style home, and since japanese homes were traditionally made out of paper and wood the device would burn the house and, if enough bats found their targets, the town also. this device was only allowed to be developed because the denist knew a friend of President FDR who then suggested the program to him. As ill-concieved this plan may seem, it was completely successfuly in the testing phase during 1943. A mock japanese village was built in the middle of the Nevada desert using the common cosntruction materials of japanese homes, the bomb was dropped, the bats were released, and the town entirely burned. The project was set for production but then haulted in 1944 and never saw combat. the funding would then be allocated to the manhattan project.

Tim Berners-Lee set up the WWW which is actually what we're using....

Still not possible without the conception and development of computer science from ARPAnet. Plus that was the first inter-network of computers, internet.

An ad hom is attacking the person - making false assumptions about my education doesn't class as an attack?

Nope your education is not your character. Character is defined as your personal qualities. If you have a degree at Princeton that doesn't make you a good caring person.

[Vkothii]

The Nazi party saw both as parasites and as sub-human They also saw aboriginal Australians, native tribes, and anyone living in the southern hemisphere in generally the same way. Hitler believed NZ people all lived in trees, and Australians in mud huts, for instance.

But Oceania would have got Japanese rulers, I suppose. They were at least a little more selective with the old oppression, humiliation and so on.

[Sci-guy]

Go to the political category if you want to talk further because this is far out of the realm of my orginal question and it has just resulted in insults on both sides

[Sci-guy]

Well, it sure wouldn't be the world as you know it today. For one thing, everybody would probably be speaking German. For another, Jews and Blacks would be close to being exterminated. (The Nazi party saw both as parasites and as sub-human and used them as handy scapegoats - especially the Jews.)

Finnally we agree on something

[Read-Only]

Have you ever heard of index of refraction? The properties of a wave, its frequency and wavelength, change when it enters a new medium(substance) of a different density according to the formula:
velocity = lambda*frequency

When sound changes mediums (from steel to water) its velocity changes based on whether it is entering a medium of higher density or lower density. In the instance of sound changing from a metal medium to a water medium, it goes from a higher density to a lower density so its velocity increases. If its velocity increases then according to the equation above (which is based on those scientific laws that you hold to be infallible and everlasting) then the frequency and wavelength must increase to account for the increase in velocity. If you are a scientist who hasn't heard of this, then your either over a century old and haven't read these "new" discoveries which you probably mark as lies or your like tom cruise and bought a college degree.


Pardon me, but once again your partially educated slip is showing.

I'm fully aware of refraction, reflection and diffraction. But not a one of those - or all taken together - can cause a 50Hz audio wave to mysteriously leap far up into the microwave region which would be required to cause the dissociation of a water molecule into simple hydrogen and oxygen if that is what is assumed to be happening here. Not even to mention the fact that even at the proper frequency, it would take a lot of energy to accomplish.

Now even if we're talking about only simple boiling, that can be done by various methods that create cavitation in the water and transfer energy that way. But even that would be a very stupid approach because it could easily be achieved by direct heating rather than through the use of anything more complex.

And what you seem incapable of understanding is that the physical laws that have been discovered (and tested and applied MILLIONS of times over) simply do NOT change. Advancement can certainly REFINE them, making them more accurate and descriptive, but not a single one has ever been overturned.

The only places in the whole universe that what we call "physical laws" break down are inside immense gravity wells - like black holes.

[Sci-guy]

to cause the dissociation of a water molecule into simple hydrogen and oxygen if that is what is assumed to be happening here. Not even to mention the fact that even at the proper frequency, it would take a lot of energy to accomplish.


No, you can't assume the device is attempt to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen becasue that would be electrolysis and if youread the reasources I provided plus my posts you would find that I nor the reasources have never once stated that the device is intented to split H2O.

It really seems that degree you bought isn't helping you much, because if you acctually took a college or even high school chemistry course then you would know that H2O to H2 and O2 is a ENDOTHERMIC reaction and since you have failed multiple times to understand my previous posts I will explain what that equates to.
When that reaction takes place, it loses heat energy NOT gains it. So if the devices jsut split water than it would not boil the remaining water. NO although it was stated in some of the information that these devices do undergo minimal electrolysis (its inevitable when you put an open circuit in water) that is not the objective of the device.

The device is intended to induce an increase in heat in the water with a 50 Hz wave by transfering the sound energy into momentum energy of the water molecules. This is possible if you know fundamental quantum mechanics. Supposedly 50Hz is the frequency at which this process of energy transfer can occur at an extreme efficiency.With an a transfer of energy from the sound waves to the water molecules the water molecules gain kinetic energy and thus raise in temperature. Where the excess energy comes from I don't know. I started this thread to determine this but the only responses I have gotten are that you can make energy. I understand and acknowledge that, but i never said he was making energy. I gave a few theories (see first three posts) and wanted additional input, but you have all been so obsessed with saying this is a fraud, that we've made NO progress. The only other possible erngy source that I know it could come from is Vacuum energy, since as of yet we have not found a method to harness it so any device producing a seemingly excess of energy could jsut have found a way to harness vacuum energy.

[Oli]

They were strong enough to dominate trade throughout the 1500's and 1600's until the dutch came. Also they were one of the few nations to attempt to invade england. They also held their major american colonial possessions far longer than other European nations.
200 years earlier than you fought them they'd BEEN a major power. By the time of the Napoleonic wars they were held in low regard.

Not my fault Britain is hated by numerous nations and you can't effectively manage your foriegn policies so that you don't engage yourself in multiple wars.
IS? Was. And it wasn't hate, it's a consequence of owning a quarter of the globe...

Many Russians soldiers were given the option to charge and be shot by the germans or refuse to charge and be shot by their commandign officer for treason.
Not commanding officer - political officer. Which doesn't make them "absorbers of enemy ammunition". They did fight Kursk, Stalingrad...

Yes they really know how to win a battle. If it wasn't for the harsh Russian winter, Mussilini's invasion of Greece delaying Germany's invasion of Russia, and that one third of all german troops died from eating a rapid amount of food while starving (German high command found that too many troops died of starvation so they then ordered that they should be feed 3 meals a day which was a mistake becasue when you give a starving man alot of food he dies) then russia would have fallen.
Equally bollocks - the USSR had the territory to retreat indefinitely while building strength. The winter helped admittedly.

And besides bollocks you provided no rebutle facts. After the Battle of Dunkirk and the full conquest of France, the allies were on the verge of total defeat.
Really? Is that why Hitler decided to leave England alone - being left alone is how we get totally defeated?

Not to mention, as I stated earlier about Germany'stripling its industrial output between 1942 and 1945,
Tripling it's output between 42 and 45?
Please look at the numbers. They switched to an axctual war footing late 42, early 43 IIRC had two good years and then declined...

Germany was only growing stronger. If it wasn't for full american mobilization then England wouldn't be speaking english anymore.
Ah the old one... you do know the US came into the war for its own reasons don't you? Not to "save" England.

This would also be impossible considering you were the allies of the Dutch since the 30 years war when William of Orange was delcared the Dutch Great Protectorate whose duties were to defend the nation.
Impossible? Is that why one peace treaty was settled only 20 years ago?


That has nothing to do with it raining in the UK alot. Also a Redneck and hillebilly are the samething. And i suppose thats like how every British person has bad teeth and thinks their good at soccar.
Nope, but has loads to do with US-centric chauvinism.

That doesn't change the fact that it was a fragment sentence. Ironically you mock me for my poor spelling while you can't even write a sentence.
I think it was Harlan Ellison (an American author) who said that he preferred English readers to American ones: if an American can't understand something he assumes the author is at fault, if an Englishman can't understand something he assumes the fault is his and improves his education.
Stylistic variations do not constitute "not being able to write a sentence". Writing by formula only gives you formulaic writing.
And for your information I haven't mocked you for poor spelling: I was mocking you for noting that you were correcting your spelling and still leaving so many errors. In fact highlighting your own mistakes.

He knew the existance of a higher plain, which can be equated to heaven.
He speculated without evidence...

And you know this from the time machine you posess or from your version of history where you fought a war with your ally, the netherlands?
I know this from reading about the history of science and proto science.

No the bat bomb is acctually a brain child of an American dentist who devised a plan to build a bomb that would release bats with incindinary devices during daytime bombing runs.
Oh that one. The total technical failure.

Still not possible without the conception and development of computer science from ARPAnet. Plus that was the first inter-network of computers, internet.
Granted, but it's not how we are communicating.

Nope your education is not your character. Character is defined as your personal qualities. If you have a degree at Princeton that doesn't make you a good caring person.
Ad hom: Argumentum ad hominem (argument directed at the person)- to attack the character or motives of a person who stating an idea, rather than confronting the idea itself. The character or attributes of a person making an argument is not as relevant to a topical discussion as whether the argument is valid.
Retrieved from "http://www.sciforums.com/encyclopedia/Ad_hominem"

Character OR attributes.

[Read-Only]

No, you can't assume the device is attempt to disassociate water into hydrogen and oxygen becasue that would be electrolysis and if youread the reasources I provided plus my posts you would find that I nor the reasources have never once stated that the device is intented to split H2O.

It really seems that degree you bought isn't helping you much, because if you acctually took a college or even high school chemistry course then you would know that H2O to H2 and O2 is a ENDOTHERMIC reaction and since you have failed multiple times to understand my previous posts I will explain what that equates to.
When that reaction takes place, it loses heat energy NOT gains it. So if the devices jsut split water than it would not boil the remaining water. NO although it was stated in some of the information that these devices do undergo minimal electrolysis (its inevitable when you put an open circuit in water) that is not the objective of the device.

The device is intended to induce an increase in heat in the water with a 50 Hz wave by transfering the sound energy into momentum energy of the water molecules. This is possible if you know fundamental quantum mechanics. Supposedly 50Hz is the frequency at which this process of energy transfer can occur at an extreme efficiency.With an a transfer of energy from the sound waves to the water molecules the water molecules gain kinetic energy and thus raise in temperature. Where the excess energy comes from I don't know. I started this thread to determine this but the only responses I have gotten are that you can make energy. I understand and acknowledge that, but i never said he was making energy. I gave a few theories (see first three posts) and wanted additional input, but you have all been so obsessed with saying this is a fraud, that we've made NO progress. The only other possible erngy source that I know it could come from is Vacuum energy, since as of yet we have not found a method to harness it so any device producing a seemingly excess of energy could jsut have found a way to harness vacuum energy.

Sorry to burst your last bubble but I not only took all those courses, I also worked in labs for years.

And certainly I know the process is endothermic - just as the oxidation of hydrogen to form water is exothermic. Not at all sure why you're resorting to very basic chemistry here...

You REALLY wonder why no progress is beng made here?? My, my - it's very simple. There's absolutely NO progress that CAN be made when the topic of discussion is a fraudulent process/device. That's why!!!:rolleyes:

[Sci-guy]

And certainly I know the process is endothermic - just as the oxidation of hydrogen to form water is exothermic. Not at all sure why you're resorting to very basic chemistry here...

If the machine is produce heat, then it can't be doing it by undergoing electrolysis as you stated earlier, becasue it is an endothermic reaction.

Oli, read a history book or at least a newspaper.

[Read-Only]

If the machine is produce heat, then it can't be doing it by undergoing electrolysis as you stated earlier, becasue it is an endothermic reaction.


I can agree that it's not electrolysis. And it's also very simple to understand how subjecting it to sonic waves would heat it - there's no mystery there in the least. And no "vacuum energy" needed, either.

But what I AM complaining about is this 50Hz "resonant frequency" business. That's just sheer nonsense right off the bat. And that by itself makes everything that follows it equally nonsensical as well.

Please provide some link to a recognized scientific source that states the "resonant frequency of water is 50 Hz." Can't do it? Why am I not surprised?:rolleyes:

[Sci-guy]

But what I AM complaining about is this 50Hz "resonant frequency" business. That's just sheer nonsense right off the bat. And that by itself makes everything that follows it equally nonsensical as well.

Well in the video the inventer, Peter Davey, did state that the device projects a high frequency sound wave to boil water. This sound wave is at waters natural resonance. I was confused why the forums on both the links I provided state they are trying to produce a 50Hz signal, but with further investigation into the forum they state that this is not infact the output or even the sound input into the device. It is the frequency of the AC power being directed into the device to power it. (Please read the forums I posted on the first page of this thread)

The forum members decieded that since it took Peter Davey years to adjust this devices cavitation to produce the proper freqency sound wave to boil water efficiently, they should just alter the frequency of the input power to achieve the same result. I can't comment on how effective of a solution that may be because it is not in my field.

I think the misunderstanding arose when I thought you said it was impossible for the water to be boiled when a 50Hz frequency was used in the device. I didn't clarify that it was a 50 Hz AC power source's frequency and not the frequency output of the device. Then I attempted to explain refraction because I thought you were then arguing that the frequency output of the device wouldn't change to a higher frequency when changing meduims.

And no "vacuum energy" needed, either.

I was just using Vacuum energy as an example of an energy source that we haven't harnessed yet. If a device were harnessing vacuum energy then it would seem to be a "free energy" device when in acctuallity it is harnessing a legitimate energy source. I am not implying that this Sonic boiler harnesses vacuum energy, but rather when a device such as this claims to be producing more energy it consumes, it may not be a fraud, it may jsut be harnessing other sources of power we have yet to extract, such as vacuum energy. thats why I believe some (a very small fraction) of these "free enrgy" devices deserve further scrutinization.

Oli yet again if you want to keep disscussing this jsut make a thread in politics

[Bishadi]

Sci-guy,

You have a tough group you dealing with.

The thread is a beauty in that you shares something that is pretty much basic but often folk are too stubborn to use their head first before barking.

i.e... resonance is energy upon mass

No........ the resonant frequency is not being published, as that is what the Davey’s has to show for his work.

this goes back to tesla. correct!

That is tesla stuff, and what he recognized is the STP state combined with the additional resonance, offered the direct resonant state of hot water. Meaning at that edge of the sphere, I will bet it is real hot.

Such the same that a sonic device tesla used to bring down buildings. Over a period of time the whole structure would be resonating

The ‘extra’ is simply of the STP combining with; so the environment is being sapped.

The US patent office will not accept any patent for anything to do with free energy o over unity machines or perpetual motion machines unless the inventor can prove said machine has been running for at least a year without being 'plugged in' or filled with petrol etc.

who knows what that big huge tower behind tesla’s lab was?

It sure wasn’t for transmitting as people think. It was a generator that used the flux lines of the earth’s magnetic field to generate a potential from the coil.

Now take that to your patent office and send me a thank you card.

Someone once said

"If you go against Newton, you're common place. If you go against quantum mechanics, you're bold. If you go against relativity you're daring. If you go against thermodynamics, you're wrong".

coming from a rival against the integrity of science; as your example; is status quo

life even as it goes through all them cycles of growth and rebirth has abused entropy since the beginning of time.

Otherwise life would never have evolved!

The 2nd law will be repealed. But in order for the gang to realize this, the first law of science must be adhered to;

honesty and integrity of observance.

The 2nd laws affixed a direction to energies state. i.e.. to equilibrate.

It’s wrong! And life proves it without any doubt!

[Read-Only]

Sci-guy,

You have a tough group you dealing with.

The thread is a beauty in that you shares something that is pretty much basic but often folk are too stubborn to use their head first before barking.

i.e... resonance is energy upon mass

No........ the resonant frequency is not being published, as that is what the Davey’s has to show for his work. correct!

That is tesla stuff, and what he recognized is the STP state combined with the additional resonance, offered the direct resonant state of hot water. Meaning at that edge of the sphere, I will bet it is real hot.

Such the same that a sonic device tesla used to bring down buildings. Over a period of time the whole structure would be resonating

The ‘extra’ is simply of the STP combining with; so the environment is being sapped.



who knows what that big huge tower behind tesla’s lab was?

It sure wasn’t for transmitting as people think. It was a generator that used the flux lines of the earth’s magnetic field to generate a potential from the coil.

Now take that to your patent office and send me a thank you card.



coming from a rival against the integrity of science; as your example; is status quo

life even as it goes through all them cycles of growth and rebirth has abused entropy since the beginning of time.

Otherwise life would never have evolved!

The 2nd law will be repealed. But in order for the gang to realize this, the first law of science must be adhered to;

honesty and integrity of observance.

The 2nd laws affixed a direction to energies state. i.e.. to equilibrate.

It’s wrong! And life proves it without any doubt!

What a bunch of garbage!!!:bugeye: You should really go back to school - if you've even been there in the first place. Sheesh!!

[funkstar]

Right. Just like there was absolutely NO WAY anything heavier than air could fly.

I hear this claim quite often. I've yet to see an actual source, and given the existence of birds, I'm inclined to call this a myth.

Or no way the Earth is round otherwise wed be able to see it.

We can, and people did.

Dont you people realize that current limitations are just gaps in knowledge?

I acknowledge the current laws of physics makes this impossible, but the physics we have now wont be the physics 100 years from now,

I call bullshit. Newtonian physics is still very much physics, extremely widespread and useful. And that's a lot older than 100 years.

so saying ANYTHING is impossible is making the claim you know exactly how EVERYTHING works. Only god (if he exists) can make that claim my friend.
Physics has convergence. Anything to overturn the current understanding will have to explain the same things, and more.

[MacGyver1968]

I haven't seen the video, because I can't stream video at work...but I think I get the picture. As a physics novice, would it be possible to do this experiment with the thermometers and power meters...and still fake the results by filming in hyperbaric chamber, and just lowering the atmospheric pressure?

[Sci-guy]

I haven't seen the video, because I can't stream video at work...but I think I get the picture. As a physics novice, would it be possible to do this experiment with the thermometers and power meters...and still fake the results by filming in hyperbaric chamber, and just lowering the atmospheric pressure?


Yeah I said this in a earlier post, regarding cold steam. There used to be novelty devices that reduced the pressure in a chamber with water and heated it. With reduced pressure, it requires less energy for the water molecules to undergo Heat of Vaporization, thus producing steam at a lower temeprature. I don't think you could fake the display on a standard thermometer, but if you had an electronic thermometer it may be possible, or if you display false data output on a Laptop.

[MacGyver1968]

Forget the thermometer...I wasn't thinking there...the water would boil at a lower temp than 100c. My mistake.

I was just thinking on the bus, if you shot the video in a pressure chamber, you could essentially replace the apparatus with say...a rubber duck, and still get the same visual results.

edit: Now that I'm home, and seen the video..it was obviously not shot in a hyperbaric chamber. :)

Question for the physics guys: I know that microwave ovens use a magnetron to create radio waves around 2.45 Ghz. that excite water molecules. If I had a speaker capable of creating sound waves at that same frequency, would it have the same effect on the water? (Do we have the technology to create sound waves that high?)

[MacGyver1968]

This thread has my "Macgyver" juices running. In the video, the guy dunks his device in the water. I thought, I would like to create a video that shows a glass of water being boiled by a rubber ducky..but not just any rubber ducky...a LASER ducky. (adding lasers to anything makes them more scientific.)

Physics guys, please tell me if this would work.

Here's what I'd need to film this:

2 air compressor tanks. A smaller one approx. .5m in diameter and a meter long, and another larger tank with 3x the volume.

1 slow, but powerful vacuum pump.

1 1" flexable metal gas hose., approx 1 meter in length. and a cut-off valve.

triple strength plexiglass

100% Silicon

A glass of water

One dollar store rubber ducky

One pen style laser pointer.

Cutting torch.

One video camera

Using the cutting torch, I would cut a fist sized hole in the end of the smaller air compressor tank, and smooth the hole with a grinder and sandpaper. I would set up a little platform in the bottom of the tank to set my glass of water and laser duck on...and a small white backdrop.

I would then remove the guts of the laser pointer, and stuff the contents down the mouth of the rubber duck, positioning the laser diode at the front of the mouth. Set the duck and the glass of water on the platform so that the laser hits the glass. I would then run a thick bead of 100% silicon around the hole and cover it with a slightly larger sized piece of plexiglass. (it's going to be a "one take, Jake" situation)

I would use the gas hoses to directly connect the large tank to the small tank, with the cutoff valve at the top of the larger tank. I would atttach the pump to the top of the larger tank and slowly pull the strongest vacuum I can possible pull . I would then close the cut off valve and disconnect the pump. I would setup my video camera in front of the plexiglass..and start to shoot. I would slowly open the cut off valve, which should draw air from the small tank.. Hopefully causing the water to boil ...apparently by the laser duck.

You think it would work?

[Sci-guy]

Macgyver, somehow and in someway with your ducky experiment you killed this post. I don't know how and i don't know why, but how could you?

[Bishadi]

I haven't seen the video, because I can't stream video at work...but I think I get the picture. As a physics novice, would it be possible to do this experiment with the thermometers and power meters...and still fake the results by filming in hyperbaric chamber, and just lowering the atmospheric pressure?

an by raising and lowering that environment, you could open up a whole can of worms sharing that a process can have a negative entropy in a proper environment in which that environment is the entangled source of the increased potential.

basically exactly what the new zealander recognized

[Bishadi]

What a bunch of garbage!!!:bugeye: You should really go back to school - if you've even been there in the first place. Sheesh!!


tesla is also a rock band but that is not what the scientist (nicky) mentioned was all about.

i.e..... tesla offered far more to science than edison could even comprehend

how to recognize is tesla was a scientist; edison was a business man

big difference

[MacGyver1968]

Macgyver, somehow and in someway with your ducky experiment you killed this post. I don't know how and i don't know why, but how could you?

I'm sorry man...I hate being a thread killer. :)

[Read-Only]

an by raising and lowering that environment, you could open up a whole can of worms sharing that a process can have a negative entropy in a proper environment in which that environment is the entangled source of the increased potential.

basically exactly what the new zealander recognized

Just more nonsensical garbage.:bugeye:

[Read-Only]

tesla is also a rock band but that is not what the scientist (nicky) mentioned was all about.

i.e..... tesla offered far more to science than edison could even comprehend

how to recognize is tesla was a scientist; edison was a business man

big difference

So? There's nothing about this topic that invokes either Tesla or Edison. (Those are both proper nouns, by the way, and should be capitalized. Are you also too lazy to do that?)

And if you're attempting to compare Tesla to this idiot "inventor", you need to find something more intelligent to do. :bugeye:

[Bishadi]

Well this is on the MATH of tesla in that the gentleman from new zealand, has located the wave length that combines with the water at standard pressure and heats the water..... sharing how tesla's math works

In which if you had any real comprehension you would realize tesla did more for the science of electrical theory than any single scientist on earth

http://www.pupman.com/listarchives/1995/august/msg00039.html

http://www.circuit-magic.com/laws.htm


‘It was on the 3rd of July - the date I shall never forget - {me too; the date I met my wife!} when I obtained the first decisive experimental evidence of a truth of overwhelming importance for the advancement of humanity...opportunities presented themselves which brought out, still more forcibly, and unmistakably, the true nature of the wonderful phenomena. No doubt whatever remained: I was observing stationary waves.'
'I am not an inventor. I am a discoverer of new scientific principles.'
(When offered to share the Nobel Prize with Edison for their electrical inventions, Tesla turned the prestigious award down! Edison never received the Nobel).

this is a real man
Edison was a punk


Nikola Tesla
The Forgotten Father of Today
One of the greatest minds of the 19th and 20th centuries, responsible for today's modern world, Nikola Tesla is still virtually unknown to today's textbooks, teachers, and general public. Thinking back to your high school years and looking through an encyclopedia, who do you remember as the inventor of radio? The name that probably comes to mind is Marconi. And if I asked the same about X-rays, you'd probably say Roentgen. And a vacuum tube amp, probably de Forest. While you're at it, who invented the florescent bulb, neon lights, speedometer, auto ignition system, and the basics behind radar, the electron microscope, and the microwave oven? Chances are you see little, if any, mentions of Tesla. Very few people today have ever even heard of him. The all-around nice guy Thomas Edison made sure of that.

Nikola Tesla was born in Smijlan, Croatia (now Yugoslavia) in 1858. Young Nikola had a great memory and spoke six languages. He spent four years at the Polytechnic Institute at Gratz studying math, physics, and mechanics. The amazing thing about him was that he had a great understanding of electricity (remember that this was at a time when electricity was still at infancy, the electric light bulb hadn't even been invented yet).

Tesla moved to the United States in 1884. When he arrived, he worked as an assistant to Thomas Edison, then in his late 30's. Edison had just invented the electric light bulb, but he needed a system to distribute electricity to houses. He designed a DC (direct current) system, but it had many bugs in it. Edison promised Tesla lots of money in bonuses if he could get the bugs out. Tesla took the challenge and ended up saving Edison over $100,000, which was millions of dollars by today's standards. Edison later refused to keep his promise. Tesla quit not long after that, and Edison spent the rest of his life trying to discredit Tesla (which is the main reason why he is so unknown today).

[EndLightEnd]

Tesla was the man. He invented UFOs.

[Read-Only]

Well this is on the MATH of tesla in that the gentleman from new zealand, has located the wave length that combines with the water at standard pressure and heats the water..... sharing how tesla's math works

In which if you had any real comprehension you would realize tesla did more for the science of electrical theory than any single scientist on earth



I already knew all that about Tesla and much more besides.

But none of that has anything to do with the fraud this so-called inventor is trying to pull. And someone who is a fraud is certainly NO gentleman!

[Bishadi]

I already knew all that about Tesla and much more besides. so then you recognize the math Davey's used to boil the water?

But none of that has anything to do with the fraud this so-called inventor is trying to pull. And someone who is a fraud is certainly NO gentleman! then please remove Edison from both the name of my elementary and high school; both in separate cities; Anaheim and Huntington Beach.....

i knew edison was a fraud before i got laid for the first time

heck my TV jammer to screw with analog reception was a tesla toy and i was barely 13 when i used it to jam the football games all the dads were watching and us kids in the neighbor could hear them yell when i was transmitting and it ruined the picture

imagine if i just built one to break the chemical bonds to certain molecules; people would melt and no doctor could identify what was causing it......

hence i do not publish math



rattling cages is fun as i enjoy sharing how some folks have an antiquated education


and tesla had material so far ahead of his time that even an old fool like yourself, is too proud to admit you really did not comprehend his work.

what was that tower in his back yard for?

[BenTheMan]

imagine if i just built one to break the chemical bonds to certain molecules; people would melt and no doctor could identify what was causing it......

hence i do not publish math

Nice.

Welcome to pseudoscience.

[Read-Only]

so then you recognize the math Davey's used to boil the water?

then please remove Edison from both the name of my elementary and high school; both in separate cities; Anaheim and Huntington Beach.....

i knew edison was a fraud before i got laid for the first time

heck my TV jammer to screw with analog reception was a tesla toy and i was barely 13 when i used it to jam the football games all the dads were watching and us kids in the neighbor could hear them yell when i was transmitting and it ruined the picture

imagine if i just built one to break the chemical bonds to certain molecules; people would melt and no doctor could identify what was causing it......

hence i do not publish math



rattling cages is fun as i enjoy sharing how some folks have an antiquated education


and tesla had material so far ahead of his time that even an old fool like yourself, is too proud to admit you really did not comprehend his work.

what was that tower in his back yard for?

You are completely off your rocker! When I said fraud, the man I was talking about was your crazy "boiling water inventer" - not Edison. Obviously your reading conprehension isn't any better than your knowledge of basic science and physics. You seem to have severe problems in both areas.

The good news is that this entire thread is now where it belongs - in the pseudoscience section!!:D

[AlphaNumeric]

heck my TV jammer to screw with analog reception was a tesla toy and i was barely 13 when i used it to jam the football games all the dads were watching and us kids in the neighbor could hear them yell when i was transmitting and it ruined the pictureThat's not impressive. All you need is a powerful electromagnet. Back when we had a crap TV, if my mum did the vacuuming in the front room while we were watching the signal would screw up.

So what? All you're doing is flooding the surrounding area with powerful random noise. It's like playing a loud recording of 500 people talking at once to two people trying to have a whispered conversation.
imagine if i just built one to break the chemical bonds to certain molecules; people would melt and no doctor could identify what was causing it......I absolutely guarentee you couldn't.

Besides, we already have devices which affect the O-H bonds in objects. It's called a microwave. Go stand infront of a military radar emitter and tell me it doesn't 'tingle'.

[Guest254]

imagine if i just built one to break the chemical bonds to certain molecules; people would melt and no doctor could identify what was causing it......

hence i do not publish math
I like you.

[Bishadi]

That's not impressive. All you need is a powerful electromagnet. i hot wired a basic am radio and added a crystal to transmit

basic


So what? All you're doing is flooding the surrounding area with powerful random noise. exactly but in em transmitions ..... i was a 13 year old kid,

what can you expect from a rebel?


I absolutely guarentee you couldn't. and then you write

Besides, we already have devices which affect the O-H bonds in objects. It's called a microwave. first you share the development is not possible as you 'absolutely guarantee' then share the microwave (magnetron) in which a whole different wavelength is used

then go on to suggest a the military is using a device as well Go stand infront of a military radar emitter and tell me it doesn't 'tingle'.

seems we each expected much better logic from you

really think about what you are suggesting; that what i have been mentioing is impossible yet share items that prove it.....

funny guy,

and i guess thx :shrug:

[MacGyver1968]

i hot wired a basic am radio and added a crystal to transmit

basic




Hot wired? What does that mean? Not sure how you could turn a receiving circuit into a transmitting circuit...and where would you put the crystal?

Sorry man...I gotta call "bullshit" :)

[Read-Only]

Hot wired? What does that mean? Not sure how you could turn a receiving circuit into a transmitting circuit...and where would you put the crystal?

Sorry man...I gotta call "bullshit" :)

That's exactly what it is. His knowledge of basic electricity (along with other areas) stinks!

As far as 'basics' goes, a radio noise transmitter is the SIMPLEST thing that anyone can make!! All you need is a power source. For example, take an ordinary 9-volt battery and a coin. Every time you short the battery terminals with the coin it will send out a short burst of broadband (wide frequency range) of EM noise. Not very powerful, granted, but it's there and real. In fact, it works with ANYTHING that creates a spark - shucks, like just flipping a light switch in your home.

[MacGyver1968]

That's exactly what it is. His knowledge of basic electricity (along with other areas) stinks!

As far as 'basics' goes, a radio noise transmitter is the SIMPLEST thing that anyone can make!! All you need is a power source. For example, take an ordinary 9-volt battery and a coin. Every time you short the battery terminals with the coin it will send out a short burst of broadband (wide frequency range) of EM noise. Not very powerful, granted, but it's there and real. In fact, it works with ANYTHING that creates a spark - shucks, like just flipping a light switch in your home.

Your absolutely right..an AM radio only has a power amplifier capable of amplifying audio frequencies only. Poor choice for a jammer.

Now, if I was going to "Macgyver" something...I'd use the 12v coil off a car, with couple of lantern batteries in series. Connect it to a single spark plug, and let'er rip.

[Read-Only]

Your absolutely right..an AM radio only has a power amplifier capable of amplifying audio frequencies only. Poor choice for a jammer.

Now, if I was going to "Macgyver" something...I'd use the 12v coil off a car, with couple of lantern batteries in series. Connect it to a single spark plug, and let'er rip.

Hi, Mac,

And there is a story from back in the early 1960s that goes right along with your suggestion. Two fellows in a boat were out fishing on one of the Great Lakes (Erie, I believe it was) when something broke on their outboard motor.

A long way from shore, they finally decided to disconnect the spark plug wire and try something desperate. One held the wire close to the motor housing and served as the "modulator" of sorts while the other spun the crank - which of course, powered the magneto. The did a long series of three long sparks followed by three short ones followed by three long......

Their crude SOS was picked up by the Coast Guard and several ham operators. Search-and rescue seaplanes, as well as boats, were dispatched and they were found several hours later. Both were alive and well.

[MacGyver1968]

Hi, Mac,

And there is a story from back in the early 1960s that goes right along with your suggestion. Two fellows in a boat were out fishing on one of the Great Lakes (Erie, I believe it was) when something broke on their outboard motor.

A long way from shore, they finally decided to disconnect the spark plug wire and try something desperate. One held the wire close to the motor housing and served as the "modulator" of sorts while the other spun the crank - which of course, powered the magneto. The did a long series of three long sparks followed by three short ones followed by three long......

Their crude SOS was picked up by the Coast Guard and several ham operators. Search-and rescue seaplanes, as well as boats, were dispatched and they were found several hours later. Both were alive and well.

Great story! I love resourceful people. :)

[Bishadi]

Hot wired? What does that mean? Not sure how you could turn a receiving circuit into a transmitting circuit...and where would you put the crystal?

Sorry man...I gotta call "bullshit" :)

oh brother

http://www.hackerscatalog.com/Products/PlanPackage/AMFMPlans/Index.html

AM, FM & TV Television Jammer Schematics

Schematics to build a jammer for AM, FM Radio or Television. Uses easy-to-obtain parts. Everything you need to know to build several different types of jammers included.

AM, FM, TV Jammer Plans ( 1 ):

Price - $ 9.00



now a days .... these are kid toys


but how would an idiot know about it when this was something this kid was doing almost 30 years ago

by 16, a gyro was used in a design as a navigation device as i couldn't understand how ships and aircraft were getting lost in the bermuda triangle

so the device was submitted to my professor who turned around and showed me a picture of another 3 gyro device designed in 47' i believe.

heck at 16, who knows everything.... i have no idea it was already a designed item.

but the issue with the bermuda triangle was still pending.

so after a few weeks it seems a summary was drawn up sharing the strange affect to the compasses are from magnetic field anamolies similar to the black spots on the sun

such as now the poles are rockin and a rollin......... perhaps we in for another reversal?


maybe we could discuss PNC (photon neuron conduction) that is the thesis written in 82' suggesting the brain exchanges between the scenaptic junctions by resonate light across the junction versus the moronic idea that chemicals are going back and forth


maybe you could go 'bullshit' in your shorts rather than upon the whole thread

[MacGyver1968]

I didn't say it was imposible for a 13 year to build a jammer, just not by "hotwiring", whatever that means, an AM radio by adding a crystal. You obviously are seriously lacking in any electronic knowledge.

Maybe you should learn some basic science.

....And what does PNC have to do with this discussion?

[Bishadi]

so it seems without even knowing what you are talking about, you seem to prefer posting doubt which is only based from your own lack of comprehending.

any person who has any macgyver skills would recognize how 'stupid easy' it is to convert a reciever to a transmitter.

so your opinion is worthless from this point forth as far as i am concerned

as well, your debate has nothing with the thread?

i.e..... even Davey's shares how ignorant the complacent and foolish are.


some follow rules but the good ones think, overcome and have a ability to contribute to the thinking of others

apparently you don't.

so go lay by your dish!

[Read-Only]

so it seems without even knowing what you are talking about, you seem to prefer posting doubt which is only based from your own lack of comprehending.

any person who has any macgyver skills would recognize how 'stupid easy' it is to convert a reciever to a transmitter.

so your opinion is worthless from this point forth as far as i am concerned

as well, your debate has nothing with the thread?

i.e..... even Davey's shares how ignorant the complacent and foolish are.


some follow rules but the good ones think, overcome and have a ability to contribute to the thinking of others

apparently you don't.

so go lay by your dish!

HA! And anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of electronics sees that you don't have any idea what you are talking about. The only piece of a receiver that would be useful in a transmitter would be the LO - and that's VERY low powered. The detector or discriminator (if it's an FM unit) and the audio amp section(s) would be worthless. And your mention of adding a crystal is just a weak attempt at trying to make yourself sound technical.

You are nothing but a troll and have added NOTHING to this thread of any value whatsoever. I strongly suggest you find somwhere else to play - somewhere that doesn't have people much, much better educated than you.:rolleyes:

[MacGyver1968]

any person who has any macgyver skills would recognize how 'stupid easy' it is to convert a reciever to a transmitter.



If it's so "stupid easy", then by all means, please explain how it is done.

As stated by both me and R.O., the only power amplifier in a AM radio is designed to amplify signals in the audio range of 20-20kHz. TV signals are around 50-275Mhz. Audio amps are specifically designed NOT to amplify stray signals in this range, and have coupling capacitors and filters between each stage of amplification to prevent this. If you look on the back of the radio, that's what that "FCC Approved" symbol is for. So someone rocking out to Zepplin on a radio in one room doesn't cause interference with a tv in another room.

So again...how did you do it?

[Read-Only]

If it's so "stupid easy", then by all means, please explain how it is done.

As stated by both me and R.O., the only power amplifier in a AM radio is designed to amplify signals in the audio range of 20-20kHz. TV signals are around 50-275Mhz. Audio amps are specifically designed NOT to amplify stray signals in this range, and have coupling capacitors and filters between each stage of amplification to prevent this. If you look on the back of the radio, that's what that "FCC Approved" symbol is for. So someone rocking out to Zepplin on a radio in one room doesn't cause interference with a tv in another room.

So again...how did you do it?

Heh! Here's betting he won't even try to tell you. Or else he'll come up with something like "reversing the polarity of the neutron flow." :D:D

[MacGyver1968]

lol..because, as you know, reversing the polarity on anything, makes it do the exact opposite thing. :)....when in real life..it just pops electrolytic caps.

[Read-Only]

lol..because, as you know, reversing the polarity on anything, makes it do the exact opposite thing. :)....when in real life..it just pops electrolytic caps.

I've seen more than a few of them fried in my time - and they don't smell good, either. Ech!

I had to include that famous quote from Dr. Who - Tom Baker used it in several of his episodes. It would always fix anything!:D

[MacGyver1968]

I've seen more than a few of them fried in my time - and they don't smell good, either. Ech!

I had to include that famous quote from Dr. Who - Tom Baker used it in several of his episodes. It would always fix anything!:D

When I was in electronics school, we used to turn off the power switch on the AC power strip that powered all the test equipment at a particular lab station...and would insert a low voltage, high micro farad electrolytic capacitor into a empty slot on the power strip. When the technician would return to his station, he would see everything was powered down, and would flick the ac switch back on, exploding the cap like a firecracker...it was fun until someone took it too far and inserted a 20,000 micro farad cap out of a power supply, as big as salt shaker...it sounded like a shot gun shell going off.

Needless to say, the professors put a stop to that. :)

[Read-Only]

When I was in electronics school, we used to turn off the power switch on the AC power strip that powered all the test equipment at a particular lab station...and would insert a low voltage, high micro farad electrolytic capacitor into a empty slot on the power strip. When the technician would return to his station, he would see everything was powered down, and would flick the ac switch back on, exploding the cap like a firecracker...it was fun until someone took it too far and inserted a 20,000 micro farad cap out of a power supply, as big as salt shaker...it sounded like a shot gun shell going off.

Needless to say, the professors put a stop to that. :)

HA!!:D Neat trick. And yeah, that last one was just a bit over-done. Heh!:D

[Bishadi]

HA! And anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of electronics sees that you don't have any idea what you are talking about. The only piece of a receiver that would be useful in a transmitter would be the LO - and that's VERY low powered. The detector or discriminator (if it's an FM unit) and the audio amp section(s) would be worthless. And your mention of adding a crystal is just a weak attempt at trying to make yourself sound technical.

You are nothing but a troll and have added NOTHING to this thread of any value whatsoever. I strongly suggest you find somwhere else to play - somewhere that doesn't have people much, much better educated than you.:rolleyes:

looky here whiner; you have barked at just about every person who ever makes you look like a fool begging for apologies or you whine to the mods.

since you are really not interested in looking into the material before talking and simply like to sound as if you actually know what you are talking about;

let's say i shove the truth down your throat; will you swallow or just continue barking like a dog

the thread is on how Davey's actully put to use a method proving entropy is not of single direction by combining the resonance of the existing system with an increased potential (biased), to heat a cup of water....

have you no intellect to realize, you on a thread that is against the main stream..

as well if you have not spent any time tinkering on a bench with a simple am radio and how simple it is to turn one into a transmitter when this i did all of it, including the math and even usage of the same board at the age of 13 almost 30 years ago...

why would i need to go that far back just to slap you around?


this i has zero respect for idiots who have no intent of good

[Read-Only]

looky here whiner; you have barked at just about every person who ever makes you look like a fool begging for apologies or you whine to the mods.

EXCUSE ME!!! From where did you get THAT garbage ??????????? I have never done such - which shows that you are not only ignorant but a LIAR as well !!!!



this i has zero respect for idiots who have no intent of good

Seems that your language skills (see above quote) are no better than your technical ones.

[Bishadi]

EXCUSE ME!!! From where did you get THAT garbage ??????????? I have never done such - which shows that you are not only ignorant but a LIAR as well !!!!

Seems that your language skills (see above quote) are no better than your technical ones.

seems you add nothing to conversations and when put in a corner simply bark.

this thread is not about you, nor your ignorance to be blasted as usual without responsibility.

where we bumped heads was on Tesla.... as this thread is about how a man found a method to do something most could not comprehend and the form to share it is in Tesla's math.

and all you continue to do is bark about how no one can perform simply because you do not have a clue.

and when i lie it may be when calling you a nice guy

when you apologize for being an idiot, maybe i would answer your questions

but as far as i am concerned you be a moron of selfish arrogance with too much pride to realize how little you really know. are you a professor at some university about to lose your tenure or something?

are you frustrated?

this thread shares how Tesla's ideas (and math) shares current paradigm has a huge flaw.

if you cannot comprehend that then step aside so the thread is not completely ruined talking about you


try contributing with a little integrity as to have me spell out how stupid you are about comprehending the ease of converting a reciever to a transmitter, shares how arrogant you are with simple mindedness.

reminds me of a religious nut.

What Davey's has done is provide a method to see a huge error in today's understanding of how potential increases by the association of the energy upon mass.

Let the thread live by it's own merit!

[Read-Only]

seems you add nothing to conversations and when put in a corner simply bark.

this thread is not about you, nor your ignorance to be blasted as usual without responsibility.

where we bumped heads was on Tesla.... as this thread is about how a man found a method to do something most could not comprehend and the form to share it is in Tesla's math.

and all you continue to do is bark about how no one can perform simply because you do not have a clue.

and when i lie it may be when calling you a nice guy

when you apologize for being an idiot, maybe i would answer your questions

but as far as i am concerned you be a moron of selfish arrogance with too much pride to realize how little you really know. are you a professor at some university about to lose your tenure or something?

are you frustrated?

this thread shares how Tesla's ideas (and math) shares current paradigm has a huge flaw.

if you cannot comprehend that then step aside so the thread is not completely ruined talking about you


try contributing with a little integrity as to have me spell out how stupid you are about comprehending the ease of converting a reciever to a transmitter, shares how arrogant you are with simple mindedness.

reminds me of a religious nut.

What Davey's has done is provide a method to see a huge error in today's understanding of how potential increases by the association of the energy upon mass.

Let the thread live by it's own merit!

Sorry, dude, you are the ignorant one here. And it shown in many ways.

Have you even noticed that this thread has been thrown into the garbage heap? (Probably not, since your comprehension is so low.)

And the thread will DIE - just as it should - because it and you are trying to promote nonsense. (And if we are lucky, you will pass on the afterlife with it. Now THAT would be an improvement for ALL humanity.)

[Bishadi]

Sorry, dude, you are the ignorant one here. And it shown in many ways.

Have you even noticed that this thread has been thrown into the garbage heap?

No wonder i bumped into you.

i rather enjoy looking over others works even when discounted by the community and you are simply in the can where you belong.

And the thread will DIE - just as it should - because it and you are trying to promote nonsense. not my thread and it seems quite a few have observed the items

and then with all them looking, it is only the trash minded morons that discount the works of others without knowing how to observe possibilities.

i supported the idea from another that 'yes, it is tesla style math' as a method to define the occurrance but it takes a trash minded moron, to simply bark as you are still doing, because you have no INTENTIONS of actually checking it out.

a prideful goof that has no mind for science

read the thread over and find, there is a bunch in here for you to learn from

or better still, keep your head in the garbage can as it fits your mentality not to mention, your integrity.

[MacGyver1968]

read the thread over and find, there is a bunch in here for you to learn from



I would suggest the same for you.

You never did answer my challenge to show how you created your jammer....and now all you got are weak attacks against R.O. that are so foundless and thin, they're laughable.

[Bishadi]

You never did answer my challenge to show how you created your jammer.... why are you sharing how ignorant you are when if you be a real macgyver you would already know

ie..... maybe if you were a real science gyver you would be working on Davey's idea (the thread title)


but like most of the goofs on this site, the majority as lost in their own minds of what is important, what is real and what is accepted as true.

point is, Mr. Davey's has a phenomenon that can open up your eyes if you are sharp enough to do the homework.

i.e..... use the math of electromagnetism to measure the energy upon the mass, to offer both the frame of comprehension as well the method to experimentally prove it.

Davey's is amplifying the resonant wavelength that combines with the environment to increase a potential upon the mass.

It is how he is heating the water.

But how would the complacent ever have the yahoos to actually run the math themselves?

they can't because of their own self delusional ignorance of knowing everything because what they understand complies with the existing paradigm

it is like a person in a land of the same language, and if another walks into the crowd with different dialect, the majority call them stupid

you be the goof dude...... and just can't look in the mirror and self examine

i have most of my life but now ready to kick the pants off of all of you.....

i.e... the math is easy, and first thing i tried to do was understand life, alzheimers and actually use it for the good of the species but the system could not comprehend because the true comprehension ruins most every law assumed by mankind


hence; a paradigm shift is about to rock this taco stand

[Read-Only]

why are you sharing how ignorant you are when if you be a real macgyver you would already know

ie..... maybe if you were a real science gyver you would be working on Davey's idea (the thread title)


but like most of the goofs on this site, the majority as lost in their own minds of what is important, what is real and what is accepted as true.

point is, Mr. Davey's has a phenomenon that can open up your eyes if you are sharp enough to do the homework.

i.e..... use the math of electromagnetism to measure the energy upon the mass, to offer both the frame of comprehension as well the method to experimentally prove it.

Davey's is amplifying the resonant wavelength that combines with the environment to increase a potential upon the mass.

It is how he is heating the water.

But how would the complacent ever have the yahoos to actually run the math themselves?

they can't because of their own self delusional ignorance of knowing everything because what they understand complies with the existing paradigm

it is like a person in a land of the same language, and if another walks into the crowd with different dialect, the majority call them stupid

you be the goof dude...... and just can't look in the mirror and self examine

i have most of my life but now ready to kick the pants off of all of you.....

i.e... the math is easy, and first thing i tried to do was understand life, alzheimers and actually use it for the good of the species but the system could not comprehend because the true comprehension ruins most every law assumed by mankind


hence; a paradigm shift is about to rock this taco stand

Yeah, right - nothing but a cop-out to a direct question!:mad:

And all the rest is just your foolish babbling.

If you or anyone else has SOLID PROOF to back this wacky con man of an inventor, let's see it displayed RIGHT HERE!!!!

Can you do that? (Nope, you'll just dodge the question and try to pretend you never saw it!):mad:

[Bishadi]

the thread is about new thinking, not becoming or making the complacent 'feel good'

read what another wrote about this 'heater'

The photos shown to date reminded me of a website I found a couple of years ago describing a similar thing. Here are my notes from that find; "As a sensitive musician Mr Davey noticed, that there was such a frequency of the motor and propeller buzzing, when the aeroplane cabin and his body were getting into a resonance. At this unique resonance frequency he always was experiencing an influx of heat in his aeroplane cabin. He did not know yet, that in future this phenomenon will be utilised in ultrasonic weapon systems for effective and undetected killing of people. But he decided to test whether the same phenomenon is to appear, if a metal hemisphere which simulates his pilot cabin is submerged in water and is excited into a resonance frequency. So he found two tops from old bicycle bells, joined them together, tuned one of them to 50 Hz frequency, attached electricity wire to each one of them, and thrown them into water. Surprisingly, water started to boil extremely fast. So he made his first heater patent based on this observation. This patent was already registered in 1944. After a hero return from the war, he had a device, which repetitively proved to everyone who measured it, that it has the efficiency decisively exceeding 100%. Realising this, he believed that the world is going to pounce on the opportunity of production and use of this technical miracle. After all, people are full of declarations about apparent saving on energy, resources, about protection of our natural environment, etc. However, the reality turned out to be completely opposite. Immediately after it was experimentally confirmed that the device has unexplainably high efficiency, the heater and the inventor fell into disfavour of various institutions that are interested in selling electricity and that protect the monopoly on electrical power. In the result, this extraordinary invention received an extraordinary treatment! Namely authorities were doing everything in their powers to disallow the production and sale of this heater in New Zealand. One of legal tricks that were used against this heater, was that it was declared officially to be "unsafe to health and life of users". (Please notice that practically every electrical device working on 220 Volts can be declared unsafe, if someone in the position of authority wishes to put it down.) In turn in New Zealand it is impossible to undertake the production and sale of anything, that is not officially approved by the government. In the result, Mr Davey was fighting for almost 50 years to receive a permit for the industrial production of this heater. And during these almost 50 years, the permission was continually refused to him, no matter what research outcomes he submitted to please authorities, and no matter how hard he tried. But it is interesting, that in Australia an electric jug with a heating element of the design very similar to the Davey’s heater was put in mass production (this Australian jug most probably is produced in there still even today). This Australian jug is working on the principle of electrical resistance of water (i.e. not telekinesis as the heater of Mr Davey does). Water that it heats is a resistor, in which heat is generated because of the electric current flows through this water. This Australian jug is exactly the same "dangerous to the health and lives", like the telekinetic heater of Mr Davey. Only that it did not encountered in Australia similar bureaucratic resistance because the energy efficiency of it is "normal". When I met Mr Davey for the first time in 1990, he still was appealing to authorities, and still had a hope to receive a permit for the production of his heater - in spite of these almost 50 years of lost battles with bureaucrats. He was even showing to me a large stock of components he gathered to start a production immediately after the permit is granted to him. However, he gave up the experimental production of research copies of his heater. The design of the Davey's sonic heater is extremely simple. It actually is composed of two major parts only - see Figure K8 (3) from monograph [1/4]. The most important out of these two parts is a resonating hemispherical bowl (1) made of a sound inducing metal plate. The second part is a buffering hemispherical bowl (2) almost identical in shape to the bowl (1). This second bowl has the radius around 4 mm larger than the resonating hemispherical bowl (1). Both bowls are assembled symmetrically one around the other, means the hemispherical bowl (1) is placed inside of the hemispherical bowl (2). Coin is 32 mm wide = 1.25984 inches / Big bowl approximately 1.75 inches wide and .75 inches thick / Small bowl approximately 1 3/8 inches wide. Of course, apart from these two bowls, the heater also includes a long rod, nuts, washers, and electrical wires. These are to hold it together, to supply electricity to both bowls, and to allow the heater to be submerged into water that it heats. But these other parts are marginal additions only. The major parts are the bowls. During experimental production of this heater, the resonating hemispherical bowl (1) usually is made from an old cover for a bicycle bell. The dimensions of this hemispherical bowl are not important. It is only vital that it falls into a sonic resonance at the frequency of 50 Hertz, and that it has the outer surface which is parallel and equidistant from the external buffering hemispherical bowl (2). To each of these two bowls a different wire of the household electricity supply (i.e. 220 V, 50 Hz) is connected. The heater must be submerged in water that it heat. It brings water to the boiling point extremely fast. More details about the design and operation of this sonic heater is provided in subsection K3.3 from volume 10 of monograph [1/4]. After being constructed, the Davey's telekinetic heater must be "tuned" in two different manners. The first tuning depends on providing the hemispherical bowl (1) with such frequency of the own oscillations, that makes this bowl to resonate acoustically when a sound of the frequency 50 Hertz is emitted nearby. The second tuning of the heater depends on appropriate selecting the distance "L" between both bowls (1) and (2). On this distance depends the formation of the standing wave between both bowls. Thus it decides about the energy efficiency of the entire heater. From the information that the inventor repeated to me, I gather that the measurements carried out by New Zealand scientists suggested that this heater may consume even less than the equivalent for around 5% of the energy that it generates in form of heat. This would indicate, that the electrical efficiency of this heater is around 2000%. (Means, that the heater produces over 20 times more heat than it consumes electrical energy.)" -

[Read-Only]

the thread is about new thinking, not becoming or making the complacent 'feel good'

read what another wrote about this 'heater'

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just more of the same old garbage like the 500mpg carburetor, etc. "The oil companies prevented it's introduction; the government won't allow it to be produced; the power companies used their influence to squash it." Etc., etc., etc.

Is that the best you can do? Pitiful!!!!!!!!:bugeye:

[MacGyver1968]

Wow...R.O....I'm not even going to bother trying to de-bunk #94. Geez...so many things wrong..just too many to list.

But just to pull one out of a hat...how do you tune a bicycle bell to 50hz?.That's a very low note...you'd need a much large bell to have a natural resonance at that frequency..and how do make sound come out of metal by attaching household current to it?

[EndLightEnd]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just more of the same old garbage like the 500mpg carburetor, etc. "The oil companies prevented it's introduction; the government won't allow it to be produced; the power companies used their influence to squash it." Etc., etc., etc.

Is this really so hard to believe?

I mean come ON, 5% of the population own 95% of the wealth, and these are the people making the decisions about what gets introduced to society. If you had all this power, and someone came along with a way that would make YOUR profits less, would you release it? I find it no coincedence that when the price per gallon of gas was at its highest, so was the revenue of the oil companies. This is greed at its finest. (Just look at Tesla-Edison)

Read-Only as intelligent as you may appear, you apparently lack knowledge on the way societies have been run for centuries (Few powerful at the top, and the rest slaves to their will) Its not any different today if you would open your eyes and think about it. Albeit their methods are more advanced.

Here we stand on the brink of another World War, with a President who we KNOW has lied to us before and he is STILL in office calling the shots. Furthermore fools like Cheney have stocks in military assets so they can PROFIT off the war they are about to start. :mad:

With so much materialism running our world, of course we can expect the few with the information to withold it to benefit themselves.

[MacGyver1968]

While that may happen....in this case it didn't. The gov't didn't refuse it to "oppress" this idea because it was too revolutionary....it was because it's dangerous as hell. Having uninsulated contacts carrying live 220vac that your suppose to plunge into water?...oh yeah..that's safe.

[Read-Only]

Is this really so hard to believe?

I mean come ON, 5% of the population own 95% of the wealth, and these are the people making the decisions about what gets introduced to society. If you had all this power, and someone came along with a way that would make YOUR profits less, would you release it? I find it no coincedence that when the price per gallon of gas was at its highest, so was the revenue of the oil companies. This is greed at its finest. (Just look at Tesla-Edison)

Read-Only as intelligent as you may appear, you apparently lack knowledge on the way societies have been run for centuries (Few powerful at the top, and the rest slaves to their will) Its not any different today if you would open your eyes and think about it. Albeit their methods are more advanced.

Here we stand on the brink of another World War, with a President who we KNOW has lied to us before and he is STILL in office calling the shots. Furthermore fools like Cheney have stocks in military assets so they can PROFIT off the war they are about to start. :mad:

With so much materialism running our world, of course we can expect the few with the information to withold it to benefit themselves.

Oh, come now.;) These things - just like this one - are never, ever about someone with wealth, power and position having some information or device and holding back on it's introduction or production.

It's always some old woo-woo nut - again, just as in this case - that's being held back by the "powers that be." And they are almost always working totally alone (like this one) without people to sunstantiate their story OR their invention. For support, there is always some testimonial (like this one) from some uninportant, unknown or even unnamed person (like the one here).

Starting to sound redundant? It should. And it always involves some overunity device (again, like this one) and includes some fancy technical terms like "resonance" (as does this one) that everyone has heard but that many don't really understand.

So it's not just a matter of one or two things that seem a bit odd about the story. Go back and count them ( I see four and could have included more) and see how things stack up against this sort of fraud.

All of these people are either pulling frauds, scams or have some sort of delusional condition. Because each and every one of them claims that there is somebody - the government or power company (like this one - and that's the fifth one) or some such holding them back.

You should be starting to get the picture by now, I hope.

[Bishadi]

While that may happen....in this case it didn't. The gov't didn't refuse it to "oppress" this idea because it was too revolutionary....it was because it's dangerous as hell. Having uninsulated contacts carrying live 220vac that your suppose to plunge into water?...oh yeah..that's safe.

what a bunch of TV watchers; what ever the TV says you believe

how about reading and using common sense




Energy Conversion Devices (NASDAQ: ENER) is headquarted in Rochester Hills, Michigan. United Solar Ovonics, LLC is its wholly owned subsidiary located in Auburn Hills, Michigan. Ovonics(coined from "Ovshinsky" and "electronics") is a field of electronics that uses materials able to change from an electrically nonconducting state to a semiconducting state shown by glass of special composition upon application of a certain minimum voltage. The most important example is phase change memory.

Scientist-entrepreneur Stanford Ovshinsky pioneered the field and coined the term after he founded Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. (ECD) in 1960 to further his research in amorphous semiconductors. ECD Ovonics works to create non-polluting, non-climate-changing energy sources.

Founded as Ovonics Battery Company in 1982.
Invented and patented the NiMH battery.
Current projects include NiMH, solid-state Hydrogen Fuel Storage, regenerative fuel cells, and solar (UNI-SOLAR Shingles).

Founder Stanford R. Ovshinsky was honored as "Hero for the planet" by Time Magazine in 1999, and inducted into the US based Solar Energy Hall of Fame in 2005.[1]
ECD Ovonics stock is listed on the Nasdaq with symbol ENER and on the Frankfurt Stock Exchange
then

On October 10, 2001, Texaco purchased GM's share in GM Ovonics, and Chevron completed its acquisition of Texaco six days later. In 2003, Texaco Ovonics ...


so why are they now interested in Ovionics hydrogen fuel storage?

not for reducing oil consumption

the oil companies are buying up every patent in the world regarding hydrogen usage

ya see, if we start buying hydrogen fuel cells, we still stuck to the hip of centralization of these motors; and no matter what we will be using hydrogen storage in our vehicles

but to combine the H usage with ICE internal combusion engined, then we all know the volume of H will be much greater, but then people could be converting existing velicles; as well no smog and powerful machines and as it is, the old timers are putting photo radar on the freeways already.....

SO no matter how you look at it, hydrogen storage and usage is going to be the future in any case.

the idea i suggested is to send a law through that suggests:

no ownership of proprietary can be retained to a patent or process, that is found surpressed and proven a benefit to mankind; for the purpose of business practive or purposed to retain profit.

and if any of you are on your game that is the exact same purpose for the rule regarding internet domains; you can't buy a domain name and hold it for the purpose of selling it to the namesake for a profit. i.e... charles barkeley.com



OH and if we have a tub a water, and it is already at room temperature can a resonance of energy be imposed to heat the water?


ABSOLUTELY!

[MacGyver1968]

To each of these two bowls a different wire of the household electricity supply (i.e. 220 V, 50 Hz) is connected. The heater must be submerged in water that it heat.

No. I didn't get my electronics knowledge from tv...I got it with my EET degree.

At least I didn't get it from the back of Cheerios box, like yourself.

Wow..your posts are all over the place..do you have a mental disorder of some type?

[Bishadi]

No. I didn't get my electronics knowledge from tv...I got it with my EET degree. maybe that is why you spend so much much on forums......... still unemployed; still cannot use your knowledge for anything that develops



At least I didn't get it from the back of Cheerios box, like yourself. cracker-jacks

the degree is better than yours as we get water tatoos also

Wow..your posts are all over the place..do you have a mental disorder of some type? absolutely.

the thread is how 'sound waves boil water', but between the non-reading magyvers, barking about what is wrong with everyone....

the subject is all over the place....

no JOKE, you 2 goofs are like religious people; will follow the complacent right off the ledge.

neither of you use any integrity before tapping keys

yes.......... resonance can combine with its environment and increase the total potential.

i.e.... have you ever wondered what a rogue wave is? Like how could energy align and share a greater potential than its surrounding environment?


or let me guess.... they don't exist either because if goes against the laws of thermodynamics?


you boys are not even in the same decade as far as knowledge.

maybe in 20 years you could hold a topic and drill it down;

better still

go lay by your dish

[Vkothii]

Bordering on idiopathic, comes to mind.

Or maybe it's idiopathetic.

[Bishadi]

did we forget to add you to the 'peanut gallery'


each of you monkeys, add nothing


now do you see why not a one is actually doing something with your lives

[MacGyver1968]

maybe that is why you spend so much much on forums......... still unemployed; still cannot use your knowledge for anything that develops




I got a job, I'm the head of a technical support department. I use my knowledge every day.

Time for this thread to die.

[Bishadi]

I got a job, and we can all see where you spend it

I'm the head of a technical support department. now in light of this thread; seems you and 'technical support' is an oxy-moron

I use my knowledge every day. knowledge of what?

you can't figure out how to transmit from a radio? even with $9.00 kits for middle school kids.

as well, you have no comprehension of how Davey's heats his cup of coffee (what the thread is about)

technical support? for what a commador 64 or are you still a TI guy?

you can program a random process, in which a ball appears to bounce and change colors............ 'randomly' ..... isn't that exciting?



Time for this thread to die. or anything else you put your hands into

mayb if you purchase a Tesla album at least you can say something when the word comes up next time.

[MacGyver1968]

technical support? for what a commador 64 or are you still a TI guy?



LOL!! Actually, your pretty close. I work for a company that recycles and refurbishes IT assets. I actually saw a "trash-80" in tear down the other day...boy that brought back some memories. I thought about pulling it, and giving to to the Ebay guys to sell...it might get some nostalgia money.

Although most are machines are around 2-5 years old.

[Vkothii]

I'm the type who doesn't perform well on demand, unless it's not too boring. If a boss or a company is a loser I don't work for it - I just wait and usually someone wants me to do something. As long as they understand I'm not there to be told anything about how to do the task, or follow orders, except what they want done with their stupid computer thingamy.

Taking PCs apart or putting them together can be ok dosh, but it's like fixing lawnmowers after a while (not too long a while in my case).
I like taking stuff apart and putting it back together another way, more betterer.

It's more fun when you're an open systems dude, but bosses prefer them closed again.

[Bishadi]

LOL!! Actually, your pretty close. I work for a company that recycles and refurbishes IT assets. i guess its not Insight.

maybe i was off, bet you see lots of IBM sys36 and AS400's.

point being you not on the cutting edge (look up polaritonics, that IS the new cutting edge to memory)

meaning open a thread and i will share how polaritonics is almost 'exactly' how living forms maintain 'memory'

i.e... not a binary system, in which the crystal structure maintains the properties of the 'f' within a structural constraint, rather than gates (on/off)

where i am going is if you want material to grow, i'm your hucklberry

if you want to duel; 'say when'

as this kid is not foolin around...... this is all I do.......study, learn and rattle cages.........

it's time for a paradigm shift and either you on board for the good of our future, the children, or you are not!

as long as that is the premise in all pursuits or we are not friends

this 'i' will never give in to the so called community; most are morons of complacency and that does nothing for tomorrow

all banches of the sciences are in for a roll over; right now the climb is slow moving as the beginning is at the terminal (get the hint) but once the momentum starts grab the rail and hang on as every single field of science is to be affected

and that is not even the important stuff; imagine being able to teach your kids what life is, perfectly true to existence!

[Bishadi]

I'm the type who doesn't perform well on demand, a born rebel?


It's more fun when you're an open systems dude, but bosses prefer them closed again.

so is the system of choice closed (entropic) or open for progress (capable of increasing its (your) potential from the environment)?


Can Sound Waves Boil water?


let's hear a resonating............ "yyyeeesss"

[MacGyver1968]

and i will share how polaritonics is almost 'exactly' how living forms maintain 'memory'

i.e... not a binary system, in which the crystal structure maintains the properties of the 'f' within a structural constraint, rather than gates (on/off)

where i am going is if you want material to grow, i'm your hucklberry



Please do! I'd love to hear about it. I've always wondered if we were ever going to get a non-binary system computer.

[Bishadi]

Please do! I'd love to hear about it. I've always wondered if we were ever going to get a non-binary system computer.

have you looked into the new thread opened?

just think if a human being was run on a binary system as suggested in todays physiology material? Then a magnet would be like cryptonite to a living form. Or to bring a simple electronic divice into or even in the proximity of an MRI magnet, it is ruined. Now if your brain was based on binary connections; an MRI would tear memories apart.

welcome to reality 101


and

Yes~

resonant energy can shatter glass, and boil water, etc.....

the same principle that rogue waves are born of.

[MacGyver1968]

have you looked into the new thread opened?

just think if a human being was run on a binary system as suggested in todays physiology material? Then a magnet would be like cryptonite to a living form. Or to bring a simple electronic divice into or even in the proximity of an MRI magnet, it is ruined. Now if your brain was based on binary connections; an MRI would tear memories apart.

welcome to reality 101


and

Yes~

resonant energy can shatter glass, and boil water, etc.....

the same principle that rogue waves are born of.

Yes..I did...but some of the physics were over my head. :)

[Bishadi]

it was just reading.

we already know physics is over your head.

[AlphaNumeric]

no JOKE, you 2 goofs are like religious people; will follow the complacent right off the ledge.

neither of you use any integrity before tapping keysAnd what about your claims? You have no evidence, you cannot provide a working description and you demonstrate a lack of understanding for mainstream concepts. All in all, that sounds very much like a religous person's behaviour when they try to discuss physics like cosmology with scientists.
i.e.... have you ever wondered what a rogue wave is? Like how could energy align and share a greater potential than its surrounding environment?There's nothing to do with 'over unity' processes though. Ocean dynamics are highly non-linear systems which can often exhibit chaos (the technical term, not the 'It's all random!' layman use of the word). Even within a chaotic non-linear system you can see find areas which will, for short periods of time, form highly coherent systems. Rough waves are the result of positive feedback within the system which causes the wave energy not to disipate quickly enough and the energy of the wave keeps climbing as more and more waves combine to form it.

Nothing 'over unity' about it, the energy and momentum for a rogue wave comes from all the smaller waves it's absorbed. Long lasting non-linear waves can be, and are, modelled via solitons. Infact, it was physically observed decades before they were observed.
or let me guess.... they don't exist either because if goes against the laws of thermodynamics?Then you guess wrong.
you boys are not even in the same decade as far as knowledge.

maybe in 20 years you could hold a topic and drill it down;If you want to go toe to toe with someone who knows a **** ton about solitons I'm sure I could ask a friend who researches such things at Cambridge.

Firstly, do you know how to show the KdV equation has solitonic solutions?
you can't figure out how to transmit from a radio? even with $9.00 kits for middle school kids.Nothing you did was new or impressive. Like I said, my mum used to screw up our TV doing the vacuuming. When I am using my wireless headphones to listen to music and I walk through the alarm system in shops I get a loud buzzing sound. Strong magnetic fields or random noise are easy to generate.
as well, you have no comprehension of how Davey's heats his cup of coffee (what the thread is about)He doesn't even provide evidence he does do what he claims. There's no temperature data, no measurements of current and voltage for the device and no model which describes it. As I said in a previous post, it looks like he's just boiled the water in the kettle you can see in the video and then if he put in a blob of copper headed to 300C it would boil. Or if the glob of copper has a heating element in it which makes it scalding hot then he's just conning people.

Without proper investigation, there's nothing to back up his claims.
all banches of the sciences are in for a roll over; right now the climb is slow moving as the beginning is at the terminal (get the hint) but once the momentum starts grab the rail and hang on as every single field of science is to be affected
How many cranks have been saying that, for decades (if not centuries)? We had cold fusion hoaxes 20 years ago. No revolution. We've had loads of 'theories of everything' put online by cranks. No revolution.

Your 'polaritonics' is incoherent, unscientific nonsense because it isn't able to actually predict or accurately model anything.
and that is not even the important stuff; imagine being able to teach your kids what life is, perfectly true to existence!
Try teaching yourself physics first. I bet you cannot answer a few questions expected of school children. You'll avoid answering them with a "I don't do maths, I do concepts" or something like that. Thus proving you don't know what physics is.
let's hear a resonating............ "yyyeeesss"
Yes, it can (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonoluminescence) but not like that guy has done.

Show me an indepth, scientific, investigation of his device and I'll retract my comment about him being a liar and a fraud (he's looking for investors!). Until then he hasn't shown he has any result.
we already know physics is over your head.
If you think you understand physics, care to answer a few homework questions I give students in their 1st years? Also, if you think you've got a working model, show, using indepth quantitative methods, that the oscillations of molecules in water, held together by hydrogen bonding and Van der Waal's forces, leads to a lowering in the strength of the covalent bonds within the molecules themselves. You're saying inter-molecular motion alters inter-atomic bonds.

Prove it. I bet you cannot.

[MacGyver1968]

That was sweetness, A.N. :)

as the kids say..."Pwned!"

[Bishadi]

And what about your claims? You have no evidence, you cannot provide a working description and you demonstrate a lack of understanding for mainstream concepts. All in all, that sounds very much like a religous person's behaviour when they try to discuss physics like cosmology with scientists. then why not release the foolishness of your education and look up 'polaritonics' or 'neural interaction by light' or how phospholipid bilayers assemble..... or or or or or....

this list of what is being described changing everything all the way to defining what 'heat' is.


Even within a chaotic non-linear system you can see find areas which will, for short periods of time, form highly coherent systems. you can't talk that way, it's against the 2nd law of thermodynamics...

or simply to a standard model goof, that system is impossible

Rough waves are the result of positive feedback within the system which causes the wave energy not to disipate quickly enough and the energy of the wave keeps climbing as more and more waves combine to form it.

sounds like life in a nutshell.


Your 'polaritonics' is incoherent, unscientific nonsense because it isn't able to actually predict or accurately model anything.

Polaritonics is existing scientific research; it t'ain't my idea.

not my fault you can't read

Try teaching yourself physics first. I bet you cannot answer a few questions expected of school children. then share with us oh, mighty fool, what is the cause of Mercury's orbit? Let's guess your answer is............dahhhhhhh... dark matter dude


polaritonics was to share that in the sciences (current and why it is out of your comprehension) that a structure can retain a set of properties and when a signal is conveyed upon that structure, them properties are returned.....

i shared how it is the same form as to how memories of the brain are held upon structures verus the moronic idea that memories are held as binary systems......

again a little beyond your comprehension...

just as to open up a can of worms on solitons.... shares how Davey's system of heating water with a resonant wave can work......


this is what makes me tired of dealing with fools, they really do not comprehend what they are saying

[AlphaNumeric]

then why not release the foolishness of your education and look up 'polaritonics' or 'neural interaction by light' or how phospholipid bilayers assemble..... or or or or or....I didn't say such things are unknown to science or don't exist. I called into question your grasp of them and your claims about your work.
you can't talk that way, it's against the 2nd law of thermodynamics...No, it isn't. For instance, a well known demonstration of chaotic systems involves bifrucation, where the splitting of paths is found to be chaotic (as per a specific mathematical definition, not just 'it's complicated'). And yet such a system of bifrucations looks like this (http://www.reorient.hu/kepek/research_text_somlaifischer/th_somlaifischer-02.jpg). Notice the sudden and a repeated patches of simplicity within an otherwise increasingly complicated system? Another chaotic system would be the solar system. The motion of more than 2 gravitationally interacting objects was proven 'chaotic' by Poincare. Indeed, it was the problem of describing the solar system over very long lengths of time which prompted Poincare to practically invent the entire area of chaotic systems. And yet, every now and again planets line up. We get eclipses with the Moon lines up with the Sun and Earth. We even get it with 4 or 5 planets every few centuries or millenia (or more!). Every now and again the system passes through a very nice and symmetric layout.

So I can talk that way, given I've got evidence to back up my claims.
Polaritonics is existing scientific research; it t'ain't my idea.

not my fault you can't readI didn't claim it was your idea, I said the concepts you put your own 2 cents on turn out to be nonsense. Like how you won't publish a particular result of yours because the military will use it to kill people in some way you claim your work will allow them to do. It's not my fault you never bothered to learn any physics and now you don't understand it.
then share with us oh, mighty fool, what is the cause of Mercury's orbit? Let's guess your answer is............dahhhhhhh... dark matter dudeNo, dark matter has nothing to do with the orbit of Mercury. Dark matter works on galactic scales, not the solar system scales. Explaining why the orbit of Mercury is not what Newtonian theory predicts but actually what relativity predicts is a homework question for GR students. I had to do a short computing project on it in my 3rd year. I learnt and understood the equations and then write a computer program in C which works out the relativity based orbit of Mercury around a star and compared it to what Newtonian theory said. I even got it to plot orbits. Then I went on to model comet trajectories and finally onto using that work to compute the absorption cross section for black holes. And that was just one project out of 4 I did that year. Never mind all the courses in Newtonian and relativistic mechanics, which I then sat and passed during my exams.

So it's not my fault you don't read and so don't know dark matter isn't a factor in the motion of Mercury. And you couldn't even address my challenge of answering a few questions to prove you aren't a liar.
i shared how it is the same form as to how memories of the brain are held upon structures verus the moronic idea that memories are held as binary systems......
This the essay you wrote when you were 16? :rolleyes:
again a little beyond your comprehension...
Just like quantum mechanics and cosmology is beyond yours it seems.
just as to open up a can of worms on solitons.... shares how Davey's system of heating water with a resonant wave can work......Do you even know what a soliton is? Solitons in water still wouldn't magically make over unity energy.

If you claim otherwise, show it with indepth quantitative derivations from a solitonic concept and the physical properties of water. If you want a few pointers on solitons in quantum field theory, read this (http://www.damtp.cam.ac.uk/user/tong/tasi.html).

[Bishadi]

I called into question your grasp of them and your claims about your work. with a post like this i can see you just will not learn
a well known demonstration of chaotic systems involves bifrucation, a mathematical theorem to patch observation, has nothing to do with Davey's or anything of increasing potential where the splitting of paths is found to be chaotic (as per a specific mathematical definition, not just 'it's complicated'). and if the math is wrong might as well create some more dark junk

Another chaotic system would be the solar system. why not say your head is a little chaotic as you just cannot stay focused


So I can talk that way, given I've got evidence to back up my claims.
I didn't claim it was your idea, I said the concepts you put your own 2 cents on turn out to be nonsense. that resonant energy can heat water, as well polaritonics share how mass can retain a property to mass?

please step aside, you all over the board

No, dark matter has nothing to do with the orbit of Mercury. Dark matter works on galactic scales, not the solar system scales. over 75% of the universe is supposed to be dark crap and now it don't apply with what we can experience, nor the rotation of mercury?


So it's not my fault you don't read and so don't know dark matter isn't a factor in the motion of Mercury. thread not about dark matter

i was making fun of you because you jump up and down about what you know and still cannot admit the very model you maintain cannot answer the very question you impose.....

this thread is about heat water with resonance and how the very properties of energy that enable this ruin the standard model of thinking

and you too foolish to just do a little homework.....


and now i know why

because you will probably say........... 'now, why didn't i think of that'

its time for a little evolution

and you getting it free, just shut up and stay focused and you might learn something

[AlphaNumeric]

with a post like this i can see you just will not learnSo tell me, what have you learnt about general relativity and cosmology? By the looks of it, nothing.
and if the math is wrong might as well create some more dark junk That has nothing to do with dark energy or dark matter. It was giving an example of how a chaotic system, which is pretty much the definition of 'chaotic' (as physicists and mathematicians define the word), can develop spontaneous simplistic structures. Which proved your claim, that such a thing is impossible, wrong.
why not say your head is a little chaotic as you just cannot stay focused I am staying focues. You made a claim about chaotic systems, I gave examples of how chaotic systems demonstrated your claims are wrong.
please step aside, you all over the board When you make a claim about physics I can demonstrate is false, I'll point it out. If you stop being wrong, I'll stop having anything to correct you on.
over 75% of the universe is supposed to be dark crap and now it don't apply with what we can experience, nor the rotation of mercury?Thus showing you don't know anything about general relativity and dark matter and energy.

The universe is 70% dark energy. This only has an effect over distances larger than 100 million light years. A lot smaller than Mercury's orbital radius. Another 26% of the universe is dark matter, which makes up the majority of galactic material but only has an effect over the distances of order the galactic radius, which is about 100,000 light years. And for reference, the orbital radius of Mercury is less than one light minute.

So dark matter and dark energy do not have enough effect within the very very small region between the Sun and Mercury to alter it's orbit very much.
i was making fun of you because you jump up and down about what you know and still cannot admit the very model you maintain cannot answer the very question you impose.....No, I actually specifically stated that general relativity can explain the motion of Mercury. Newton couldn't, there was a slight difference between his calculations and the actual motion of the planet. Einstein got a better model, which explained the motion perfectly.

So 'the very model [I] maintain [can] answer the very question [I] impose'! Like I said, this is a homework question to students!
and you too foolish to just do a little homework.....
And you're too foolish to even learn what 'dark energy' and 'dark matter' are and do. Yet you whine about it. :rolleyes:
because you will probably say........... 'now, why didn't i think of that'and you getting it free, just shut up and stay focused and you might learn something [/QUOTE]Too scared to learn what physics actually means by terminology like 'chaotic', 'dark energy' and 'dark matter' then?

Tell me, what does 'chaotic' mean then?

[EndLightEnd]

Hmm so now were talking about cosmology...

The Polaritonics was interesting. Reminded me of a hologram kind of.

[Bishadi]

Hmm so now were talking about cosmology... NO!

Alphanumeric and i have tangled before on another site; last i remember he is a plasms cosmology goof, and has nothing better to do, then wipe dark shit all over anything anyone says

he was useless then and still is now..... although if he understood the soliton (which i appreciate) that he even suggested; he would not be of such a chaotic mentality......

Newton/Planck; chaos (i.e.... one direction)

and it ain't correct

and he has no idea that many a theorem are simply patch-work for to correct the incorrectness of the incorrect assumptions of equilibrium

look around; it's a common psychosis!

The Polaritonics was interesting. Reminded me of a hologram kind of.

that is the future of computing and comprehending how the brain works.

ie..... we look at a steak and what happens? SO think of polaritonics as a form of mass, that when energy conveys or exchanges with, more data can be used rather than a flash light going on and off.

[AlphaNumeric]

Alphanumeric and i have tangled before on another site; last i remember he is a plasms cosmology goof, and has nothing better to do, then wipe dark shit all over anything anyone saysAre you referring to PhysOrg? I don't remember you.

And I'm not a 'plasma cosmology goof'. I'm a theoretical physicist and mathematician. I just happen to have a fairly decent understanding of astrophysics, though not up to the level of someone who specialized in it.

And I just 'wipe dark shit all over anything anyone says' when what they say is shit. Which is what the majority of your posts are. You don't understand mainstream models or terminology but you whine about how they are all wrong. No, you just haven't taken the time or put in the effort needed to understand them.
he was useless then and still is now..... although if he understood the soliton (which i appreciate) that he even suggested; he would not be of such a chaotic mentality......I'm certain you don't understand solitons. For instance, can you derive the one soliton solution to the KdV equation for me please?

I'm not an expert in solitons but I did attend lectures on them given by one of the worlds foremost experts in classical solitons.
and he has no idea that many a theorem are simply patch-work for to correct the incorrectness of the incorrect assumptions of equilibrium
And you have no idea what many of those results in mainstream maths and physics are.

Can't you even tell me what 'chaotic' means?
look around; it's a common psychosis!
You definitely do seem to be suffering from psychosis, that's for sure.

[Bishadi]

You definitely do seem to be suffering from psychosis, that's for sure.

my problem is my integrity is stronger than my patience for selfish ignorance.

guys like you are too stubborn to grow unless it complies with what is accepted paradigm

i.e... you post on soliton yet do not realize just to observe the evidence, not the mathematical but the physical reality just like this threads opening case of resonate sound waves boiling water, ruins mainstream physics.

That is where your depth is ........ 'the weakest link'


i mean really be honest; do you really think that dark matter/energy exists as the causation of the errors in what is observed (galaxy rotations) and what physics suggest?

be honest.... is it possible that the math is incorrect?

it is possible that energy shared between mass could be the potential difference? (entanglement)

be honest

[AlphaNumeric]

i.e... you post on soliton yet do not realize just to observe the evidence, not the mathematical but the physical reality just like this threads opening case of resonate sound waves boiling water, ruins mainstream physics.But as I pointed in in the first few of my posts in this thread, there's no evidence that the person in the link in the original post did anything like he claims. There are no rigorous investigations into it. He didn't even show the temperature of the water before he put the device in. So how can we tell if it went from 20C to 100C in seconds or it went from 99.9C to 100C? Nor did he show that device itself only drew a small amount of electric power.

Can you point me to a rigorous and well presented experimental investigation into such devices? Because if you can't, it's silly to say they "ruin mainstream physics" when noone has shown they even work.
That is where your depth is ........ 'the weakest link'I'm willing to engage you in discussion on the specifics of solitons (up to what I know) or quantum mechanics. The problem is that you don't know anything about them so you are unable to provide a decent conversation. Heck, you won't even define the words 'soliton' and 'chaotic' for me, so we can see if we're on the same page.
do you really think that dark matter/energy exists as the causation of the errors in what is observed (galaxy rotations) and what physics suggest?I believe that we know such a small amount of what there is in the universe that it's naive to think that we have seen the majority of the matter in the universe. It's also naive to think that all the matter in the universe happens to interact with light. The fact GR has now provided us with a way to demonstrate that there's a lot more to the universe, literally, than we thought before is just another in a long history of science showing us just how incredible the universe is. So yes, I do think they are correct.
be honest.... is it possible that the math is incorrect?Yes, it's possible it's incorrect. But I don't think it's incorrect by such a HUGE margin that the next 'update' in our understanding of gravity and cosmology will rid us of dark matter and dark energy. I think that our understanding of said phenomena will only continue to grow.
it is possible that energy shared between mass could be the potential difference? (entanglement)Is it possible for you to construct a coherent sentence?

[Bishadi]

But as I pointed in in the first few of my posts in this thread, there's no evidence that the person in the link in the original post did anything like he claims. There are no rigorous investigations into it. He didn't even show the temperature of the water before he put the device in. So how can we tell if it went from 20C to 100C in seconds or it went from 99.9C to 100C? Nor did he show that device itself only drew a small amount of electric power. Fair!


Can you point me to a rigorous and well presented experimental investigation into such devices? Because if you can't, it's silly to say they "ruin mainstream physics" when noone has shown they even work.

that is where people of science are supposed to exist; within experimental evidence and data accumulation, not professing a theorem to tell us what the law is, when physical evidence (soliton or even life) shares the law is incorrect.

i.e.... if we have a tub of water, and can create a soliton way back in the 1800's, then the law is incorrect.

so data rules, not theorem nor laws of the land.

you are inquiring as to where the data is to back up the claim and i agree that makes sense

so let's reverse the idea and place that same requisite on dark junk..

so dark junk no longer exists until we have data.

then my question is easy; which would be the simpliest model to reproduce?

can we observe; that when waves of water interact we should be able to measure any potential increase or disipation (equilibrium) pretty easily

I'm willing to engage you in discussion on the specifics of solitons (up to what I know) or quantum mechanics. does a soliton shares that energy can convey as a unit within an evironment, that can traverse distance in time with little or no loss to the unit of energy?

please just a yes or no.

and in any frame of physics; distance and time shares velocity at which energy is 'used' to traverse that d/t..... so if that unit of soliton, maintains its state, then an issue exists regarding the linear approach to entropy



Yes, it's possible it's incorrect. so it is possible Dark junk as suggested could be wrong...

a baby is born!

But I don't think it's incorrect by such a HUGE margin that the next 'update' in our understanding of gravity and cosmology will rid us of dark matter and dark energy. physics or the worlds global scientist do not know what gravity is.

never have

but in many areas of the scientific investigations and experimental evidence, they do observe and ever try to define a property of shared energy called entanglement. (see BEC at MIT or Colorado)

but will you admit, that to share that a single unit of energy (light) exihibits a force to entanglement based on the shared state (of energy) between mass; should this 'force' be measured and included in a cosmological scope?

meaning within the theorem of any model pursuing the ideas of how the cosmos works, is the property of entanglement even observed?

Originally Posted by Bishadi
it is possible that energy shared between mass could be the potential difference? (entanglement)

and you said ..

Is it possible for you to construct a coherent sentence?

Ok..... Entangled energy between mass is that long sought form called gravity.

was that clear enough?


your post was fair, so i tried to be fair too...


all that is being shared is the basics to begin tinkers on the path of tinking

and often the first step is removing the blinders of complacent tinking

to comprehend Davey's (either one) work shares that there is the tangible to share that 'life abuses entropy'...

so i have continued on this path to find someone capable of showing me 'life' in math

meaning, when priorities are based in the advancement of the human experience as to what life is and what make life exist upon mass... then maybe it is time for me to move to the next chapter


so now you know what gravity is, and why dark junk does not exist; the properties of energy are incorrectly understood and defined in 'walking the planck'

but i want someone to share what life is upon mass, mathematically

what is so tough about it?


anyone with any moxy can realize that life to the current math is like writing 1+1=3....

that means something is missing

i.e..... no wonder they created dark matter/energy to fix the errors, they needed another 1 to make the math work


food for thought

[ElvisLive]

I think I can add some information to the Davies water heater discussion.

First, most people that have been educated have been programmed to think that you can't get something from nothing. While this is true, it is only true in a chemical sense. There is this whole other world that is atomic. All free energy devices work the same way at this basic level, they all convert mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass.

Einstein stated that a gallon of water had enough atomic energy contained in it to run a train around the Earth 100 times. He was right and the hydrogen bomb proved that.

The safe and controlled way that we extract the atomic energy from mass is through cavitation since cavitation is an accelerator of sorts.

In the Davies tank heater, we take sound waves in the ultrasonic range inside an isotropic storage probe. The standing wave that is tuned for the tank crashes two opposing waves into each other and produces a cavitation.

Electrons cluster and then explode away from each other in a cavitation and this how we go from the speed of sound to the speed of light. The electrons that have been accelerated now produce a secondary emission through electron cascade effect.

There are cavitation water heaters available and they are used in industry to heat water as well as kill bacteria in milk plants for example. Search youtube for cavitation heater.

One of the reasons so little is known and taught about this subject is that they do not want you to produce free energy devices and they are even more afraid you will produce something even more dangerous.

On the tank we see two piezo resonators. One on the side and one in the center. One is a receiver and the other is a transmitter and it is very similar to the glowing water experiment done in water containing quinine - sonoluminescence.

You can buy a rotary version of this technology tomorrow if you like. They are keeping them to around 100% efficient to avoid problems but this could be increased.

The piezo method is more efficient since a piezo is a dielectric so no current is transferred and a resonant circuit takes very little current to operate

Perhaps someday we can get an honest government, honest schools and honest science without all the magical thinking of belief and disbelief.

[Read-Only]

I think I can add some information to the Davies water heater discussion.

First, most people that have been educated have been programmed to think that you can't get something from nothing. While this is true, it is only true in a chemical sense. There is this whole other world that is atomic. All free energy devices work the same way at this basic level, they all convert mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass.

Einstein stated that a gallon of water had enough atomic energy contained in it to run a train around the Earth 100 times. He was right and the hydrogen bomb proved that.

The safe and controlled way that we extract the atomic energy from mass is through cavitation since cavitation is an accelerator of sorts.

In the Davies tank heater, we take sound waves in the ultrasonic range inside an isotropic storage probe. The standing wave that is tuned for the tank crashes two opposing waves into each other and produces a cavitation.

Electrons cluster and then explode away from each other in a cavitation and this how we go from the speed of sound to the speed of light. The electrons that have been accelerated now produce a secondary emission through electron cascade effect.

There are cavitation water heaters available and they are used in industry to heat water as well as kill bacteria in milk plants for example. Search youtube for cavitation heater.

One of the reasons so little is known and taught about this subject is that they do not want you to produce free energy devices and they are even more afraid you will produce something even more dangerous.

On the tank we see two piezo resonators. One on the side and one in the center. One is a receiver and the other is a transmitter and it is very similar to the glowing water experiment done in water containing quinine - sonoluminescence.

You can buy a rotary version of this technology tomorrow if you like. They are keeping them to around 100% efficient to avoid problems but this could be increased.

The piezo method is more efficient since a piezo is a dielectric so no current is transferred and a resonant circuit takes very little current to operate

Perhaps someday we can get an honest government, honest schools and honest science without all the magical thinking of belief and disbelief.

Most of this post is nothing but pure bunk!:bugeye: And electrons play NO part in cavitation. Forget your ignorant, stupid youtube videos and read ( and actually STUDY!) some genuine scientific literature. Anything - anything! - is possible in those asinine videos and half the people making "scientific" videos are simply pulling you leg - and the other half are outright lying through their teeth.

As to "getting something from nothing", it goes WAY beyond chemistry and applies to any field you care to name. That was just simple uneducated ignorance speaking when you made that statement. And you are the one who has "magical thinking" - a very HEAVY dose of it!

[munty13]

Here's a pistol shrimp...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONQlTMUYCW4&feature=related

The cavitation bubble collapses, emitting a shockwave and temperatures which match that of the Sun. Pretty outstanding for a shrimp.

[ElvisLive]

Here's a pistol shrimp...

The cavitation bubble collapses, emitting a shockwave and temperatures which match that of the Sun. Pretty outstanding for a shrimp.

Apparently the shrimp knows more about science than read-only or the shrimp has an agenda and infiltrated youtube as read-only seems to be suggesting and probably with an agenda to deceive humanity through the web in order to gain a military advantage over humanity and deprive us of free energy devices.

Thats it! I am going to eat a shrimp and get my revenge because after all, read-only's rebuttal is filled with.. um.. the magical thought that shrimp are stupid evil liars or was that me?

What if a bug living on the bottom of the ocean were smarter than some people that post on the web? Wouldn't humanity better our gene pool by eating a human cocktail instead of a shrimp cocktail?

Thank you for dipping read-only in the BBQ sauce of reality. It was the perfect example and one I have held up many times.

[ElvisLive]

Most of this post is nothing but pure bunk!:bugeye: And electrons play NO part in cavitation. Forget your ignorant, stupid youtube videos and read ( and actually STUDY!) some genuine scientific literature. Anything - anything! - is possible in those asinine videos and half the people making "scientific" videos are simply pulling you leg - and the other half are outright lying through their teeth.

As to "getting something from nothing", it goes WAY beyond chemistry and applies to any field you care to name. That was just simple uneducated ignorance speaking when you made that statement. And you are the one who has "magical thinking" - a very HEAVY dose of it!

You seem very unprofessional, uneducated and unhinged. Perhaps you should stop projecting your magical thoughts of belief, disbelief and assumption and take your own advice.

From my first paragraph:
"First, most people that have been educated have been programmed to think that you can't get something from nothing. While this is true, it is only true in a chemical sense. There is this whole other world that is atomic. All free energy devices work the same way at this basic level, they all convert mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass."

Now for example, we can take H2 gas, run it through a cathode laser accelerator that uses very little power and produce H1 gas. The H1 gas can be placed in an insulated resonant cavity and will self resonate at 14.20 ghz. We call that a hydrogen maser atomic clock.

Now if we took that a step further and added some UV laser and a high voltage source through a needle point we have something that resembles a miniature sun. As long as there is no neutron source available it remains sub critical and is a free energy device in the sense that we are now converting mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass and we are able to extract more power than we put in.

We don't what we don't know. Unfortunately, not everyone knows that.

[eddie23]

Someone once said

"If you go against Newton, you're common place. If you go against quantum mechanics, you're bold. If you go against relativity you're daring. If you go against thermodynamics, you're wrong".

so I'm common,bold,daring, but not wrong.
LOL

[Read-Only]

Apparently the shrimp knows more about science than read-only or the shrimp has an agenda and infiltrated youtube as read-only seems to be suggesting and probably with an agenda to deceive humanity through the web in order to gain a military advantage over humanity and deprive us of free energy devices.

Thats it! I am going to eat a shrimp and get my revenge because after all, read-only's rebuttal is filled with.. um.. the magical thought that shrimp are stupid evil liars or was that me?

What if a bug living on the bottom of the ocean were smarter than some people that post on the web? Wouldn't humanity better our gene pool by eating a human cocktail instead of a shrimp cocktail?

Thank you for dipping read-only in the BBQ sauce of reality. It was the perfect example and one I have held up many times.

Nope. You've done nothing here but expose the fact that you are a lowly woo-woo who doesn't even know the first thing about the second law of thermodynamics.

People have been trying to beat that law forever - with free energy, over-unity and perpetual motion. And all they have ever accomplished (beside the con artists that stole other people's money) is wasting their time, resources and money on such silly ideas.

And you fit right in with the worst of them!

[Read-Only]

so I'm common,bold,daring, but not wrong.
LOL

Sorry, eddie, but you are VERY wrong. Here's betting that you don't know the first thing about thermodynamics - would you care to disprove that but explaining it to us?

We're waiting...:D

[Uno Hoo]

The fact we couldn't build something isn't the same as excluding something as impossible on fundamental grounds. We don't know how to build a 10 mile high building but that doesn't mean it cannot be done in principle. Getting over unity energy output is excluded by every theory which describes energy.


Pardon me for being baffled.

If, as you say, you do not know how to build a ten mile high building, then, how do you know that it can be built, in principle?

Furthermore, you say that "getting over unity energy output is excluded by every theory which describes energy". That is not true.

The truth is that energy theories simply, generally, do not provide an obvious roadmap for over unity energy production. This is a diametrically opposite thing than, as you have said, excluding over unity energy production.

However, I have been wrong before, and am sure that I will be wrong again. So, why don't you prove me wrong, and, by the same stroke, prove that you are right? Why don't you prove that, as you have said, "getting over unity energy production is excluded by every theory which describes energy"?

[Uno Hoo]

The US patent office will not accept any patent for anything to do with free energy o over unity machines or perpetual motion machines unless the inventor can prove said machine has been running for at least a year without being 'plugged in' or filled with petrol etc.

Nothing yet.

This does not sound exactly like the Patent Office rule that I am familiar with. Perhaps I am not up to date.

When, exactly, is the last time that you checked directly with the Patent Office about this?

[ElvisLive]

Nope. You've done nothing here but expose the fact that you are a lowly woo-woo who doesn't even know the first thing about the second law of thermodynamics.

People have been trying to beat that law forever - with free energy, over-unity and perpetual motion. And all they have ever accomplished (beside the con artists that stole other people's money) is wasting their time, resources and money on such silly ideas.

And you fit right in with the worst of them!


"You've done nothing here but expose the fact that you are a lowly woo-woo who doesn't even know the first thing about the second law of thermodynamics."

WTF???

* Second law of thermodynamics:
The total entropy of any isolated thermodynamic system tends to increase over time, approaching a maximum value.

Actually it is you that does not know anything about the second law of thermodynamics.

The water is an external fuel source. Therefor it is not an isolated thermodynamic system and the second law does not apply.

The problem with people such as yourself that have such a low IQ is that it does not matter whether you are right, it just matters that you appear to be right in the eyes of others that struggle with thought integrity issues.

People like you can not admit you are wrong since your whole persona is based in insecurity. That isn't science and you will get your ass kicked on the science playground all day long.

You only get to lose your credibility one time with me. Consider yours erased.

Your belligerence is matched only by your ignorance.

Class dismissed.

[Uno Hoo]

That's not impressive. All you need is a powerful electromagnet. Back when we had a crap TV, if my mum did the vacuuming in the front room while we were watching the signal would screw up.

So what? All you're doing is flooding the surrounding area with powerful random noise. It's like playing a loud recording of 500 people talking at once to two people trying to have a whispered conversation.
I absolutely guarentee you couldn't.

Besides, we already have devices which affect the O-H bonds in objects. It's called a microwave. Go stand infront of a military radar emitter and tell me it doesn't 'tingle'.


There are plenty of military radars that Alpha...can go stand in front of and melt.

Way back almost in de year number one, the Russian Mig 25 Foxbat had a 650,000 Watt radar. Complete with vacuum tubes. Toast your weenie with one of those.

Once upon a time Tesla did an experiment in his New York lab that jammed the ignition of every car within several blocks. Except for the Stanley Steamer.

And once upon a time a friend of mine built a crude Tesla coil. When he energized it with ordinary household 110v power, limited by his house 20 amp fuse, it did a really good jam of local radio and tv reception. Like a mini EMP.

I forget.....was Alpha... trying to prove that Tesla technology could not have any important results?

[Uno Hoo]

Nope. You've done nothing here but expose the fact that you are a lowly woo-woo who doesn't even know the first thing about the second law of thermodynamics.

People have been trying to beat that law forever - with free energy, over-unity and perpetual motion. And all they have ever accomplished (beside the con artists that stole other people's money) is wasting their time, resources and money on such silly ideas.

And you fit right in with the worst of them!


Why do you like to have "woo-woo" in your mouth so often?

Is it because it rhymes with "doo-doo"?

[Read-Only]

"You've done nothing here but expose the fact that you are a lowly woo-woo who doesn't even know the first thing about the second law of thermodynamics."

WTF???

* Second law of thermodynamics:
The total entropy of any isolated thermodynamic system tends to increase over time, approaching a maximum value.

Actually it is you that does not know anything about the second law of thermodynamics.

The water is an external fuel source. Therefor it is not an isolated thermodynamic system and the second law does not apply.

The problem with people such as yourself that have such a low IQ is that it does not matter whether you are right, it just matters that you appear to be right in the eyes of others that struggle with thought integrity issues.

People like you can not admit you are wrong since your whole persona is based in insecurity. That isn't science and you will get your ass kicked on the science playground all day long.

You only get to lose your credibility one time with me. Consider yours erased.

Your belligerence is matched only by your ignorance.

Class dismissed.

Listen, dummy, you have NO idea about the qualifications of the people you are talking to here. Be we can clearly see what qualifications YOU do NOT have!

Personally, I spent years working at what was then THE most prestigious research organization in the world before retiring a few years back. And I don't give a hoot if you believe me or not - so don't even bother trying to go there.

Water is an "infinite source of energy" only as long as there is water and the hydrogen it contains undergoes nuclear fusion - something we've yet to achieve beyond the break-even point as a source of usable power. It's something that WILL be achieved some day but still appears far off for now.

But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the claims of "free energy" or over-unity devices or perpetual motion machine. You've once again firmly planted your foot squarely in your mouth with no means to extricate it gracefully.

So I continue to maintain that you are no more than an undereducated, confused woo-woo.

[Uno Hoo]

Listen, dummy, you have NO idea about the qualifications of the people you are talking to here. Be we can clearly see what qualifications YOU do NOT have!

Personally, I spent years working at what was then THE most prestigious research organization in the world before retiring a few years back. And I don't give a hoot if you believe me or not - so don't even bother trying to go there.

Water is an "infinite source of energy" only as long as there is water and the hydrogen it contains undergoes nuclear fusion - something we've yet to achieve beyond the break-even point as a source of usable power. It's something that WILL be achieved some day but still appears far off for now.

But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the claims of "free energy" or over-unity devices or perpetual motion machine. You've once again firmly planted your foot squarely in your mouth with no means to extricate it gracefully.

So I continue to maintain that you are no more than an undereducated, confused woo-woo.

I have been noticing that you-you call people woo-woo as much as you can, but you do not ever give any detail-detail about how their thinking is wrong-wrong.

We would all be enthralled if you-you would provide your detailed explanation-explanation about exactly- ( EXACTLY) how and why the thread subject process is bogus-bogus. Maybe it is. But you owe us your generosity to explain in detail how it, specifically, is wrong-wrong.

Since you had the misfortune to be the victim of over-education, why can't you be merciful and throw us under-educated dummies enough dry crumbs from your over-filled brain to explain in specific detail how the thread subject process is bogus-bogus?

Do you-you just hate us woo-woos so much that you don't want to even try to teach us anything specific-specific?

[ElvisLive]

Listen, dummy, you have NO idea about the qualifications of the people you are talking to here. Be we can clearly see what qualifications YOU do NOT have!

Personally, I spent years working at what was then THE most prestigious research organization in the world before retiring a few years back. And I don't give a hoot if you believe me or not - so don't even bother trying to go there.

Water is an "infinite source of energy" only as long as there is water and the hydrogen it contains undergoes nuclear fusion - something we've yet to achieve beyond the break-even point as a source of usable power. It's something that WILL be achieved some day but still appears far off for now.

But that has absolutely NOTHING to do with the claims of "free energy" or over-unity devices or perpetual motion machine. You've once again firmly planted your foot squarely in your mouth with no means to extricate it gracefully.

So I continue to maintain that you are no more than an undereducated, confused woo-woo.

Actually I can see your qualifications or lack therein in everything you write.

As far as believing you, that would be a magical thought and unlike you, I do not engage in them.


Knowledge is experience.



A belief is accepting something as true though you have no experience of it. - a magical thought.


A disbelief is rejecting something that may be true or experience may be had. - A magical thought.


You make the assumption that you know everything or that science knows everything. This of course is a magical thought to the fourth power.

Here is what thought integrity and the sanity that springs forth from that integrity sounds like.

"There are things that I know and things that I do not know. I do not know what I do not know."

Now, you made an insulting claim regarding the second law and got you ass handed to you. Then you make this conflicting statement:

Water is an "infinite source of energy" only as long as there is water and the hydrogen it contains undergoes nuclear fusion - something we've yet to achieve beyond the break-even point as a source of usable power. It's something that WILL be achieved some day but still appears far off for now.

So apparently in your little world, it will only be possible when you and apparently people you know do it. This of course takes us back to my observation that your damaged id based ego is not science.

And lastly, you used quote marks around "infinite source of energy" however I have not used that term and do not recall you writing that in regard to my post. While I am not here to teach you to literacy, quote marks mean something. Don't ever misquote me again.

Water cannot be an "infinite source of energy" since the mass is converted into the atomic energy contained in the mass. Pay attention, your slip is showing and you have doo doo on your face genius.

[Read-Only]

I have been noticing that you-you call people woo-woo as much as you can, but you do not ever give any detail-detail about how their thinking is wrong-wrong.

We would all be enthralled if you-you would provide your detailed explanation-explanation about exactly- ( EXACTLY) how and why the thread subject process is bogus-bogus. Maybe it is. But you owe us your generosity to explain in detail how it, specifically, is wrong-wrong.

Since you had the misfortune to be the victim of over-education, why can't you be merciful and throw us under-educated dummies enough dry crumbs from your over-filled brain to explain in specific detail how the thread subject process is bogus-bogus?

Do you-you just hate us woo-woos so much that you don't want to even try to teach us anything specific-specific?

Back up a notch there and pay a little more attention, OK? I've clearly stated the reasons why all this is sheer woo-wooism: it violates things like thermodynamics. Is that not specific enough for you? And once an idea has been disproven by a single violation, is there really any point in taking it any further?

[Read-Only]

Actually I can see your qualifications or lack therein in everything you write.

As far as believing you, that would be a magical thought and unlike you, I do not engage in them.


Knowledge is experience.



A belief is accepting something as true though you have no experience of it. - a magical thought.


A disbelief is rejecting something that may be true or experience may be had. - A magical thought.


You make the assumption that you know everything or that science knows everything. This of course is a magical thought to the fourth power.

Here is what thought integrity and the sanity that springs forth from that integrity sounds like.

"There are things that I know and things that I do not know. I do not know what I do not know."

Now, you made an insulting claim regarding the second law and got you ass handed to you. Then you make this conflicting statement:



So apparently in your little world, it will only be possible when you and apparently people you know do it. This of course takes us back to my observation that your damaged id based ego is not science.

And lastly, you used quote marks around "infinite source of energy" however I have not used that term and do not recall you writing that in regard to my post. While I am not here to teach you to literacy, quote marks mean something. Don't ever misquote me again.

Water cannot be an "infinite source of energy" since the mass is converted into the atomic energy contained in the mass. Pay attention, your slip is showing and you have doo doo on your face genius.

What an absolute boor you are. And as to the quotation, you actually said, "...water is an external fuel source..." which is quite literally exchangeable with "infinite source of energy." So much for your reading comprehension and your comment about misquoting you.:rolleyes:

As to the rest of your post, I won't even bother acknowledging that garbage.

But feel free to keep on posting half-nonsense while you can because I've got a strong suspicion that your time here will not be very long. :D

[ElvisLive]

In his zealous race to make a fool of himself one again, he must have skimmed right over this H2 to H1 transmute method of free energy production I posted:

Now for example, we can take H2 gas, run it through a cathode laser accelerator that uses very little power and produce H1 gas. The H1 gas can be placed in an insulated resonant cavity and will self resonate at 14.20 ghz. We call that a hydrogen maser atomic clock.

Now if we took that a step further and added some UV laser and a high voltage source through a needle point we have something that resembles a miniature sun. As long as there is no neutron source available it remains sub critical and is a free energy device in the sense that we are now converting mass into the atomic energy contained within the mass and we are able to extract more power than we put in.

In reality, you don't even need the laser, just place it in a copper vessel and hit it with a plasma electrode. > 1000% OU heat output.

I also notice he did not have a response as to how the second law applies as he claimed. Just more huffing and puffing and insults.

Hey when I was eight years old, my grandparents used to take me to the cape where they worked on the Apollo Project, that doesn't make me an astronaut. We get to stand in our shoes no matter where we are. You also proved my point that you could not admit you are wrong.

We get the respect we earn and you know nothing about me either so that makes us even since I could care less who you are. I don't place any value on people that make false claims, insults and turn science into a pissing match. No wonder you have a damaged ego.

[ElvisLive]

@ Uno Hoo

You can go OU with hydrogen production several ways and I would be willing to share that with you elsewhere since this is not fertile ground for science. It is a "steer reviewed" bond cleavage process and called a homolytic fission or heterolytic fission depending on how the electrons sort out and is easy to replicate.

It ties right into the H2 transmute process but it is kept quiet for economic reasons. PM me if you are interested.

[ElvisLive]

A Shocking New Pump
.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff2000/ip3.htm

Apparently there is some strange filter that does not allow me to post a link - How weird. Add a www to the front end and if posting a link to NASA gets me banned, I could care less at this point.

The person that makes that pump claims > 100% efficiency. That would be the pump I cited on youtube for which I was called a number of names by read-only.

[leopold99]

You also proved my point that you could not admit you are wrong.

actually read-only can indeed admit when he is wrong when it's obvious he is.

[leopold99]

The person that makes that pump claims > 100% efficiency. That would be the pump I cited on youtube for which I was called a number of names by read-only.
notice the word claims.

i have yet to see ANY process that is greater than 100% efficient.

[ElvisLive]

notice the word claims.

i have yet to see ANY process that is greater than 100% efficient.

Well maybe you need to get out more.

As far as read-only admitting he is wrong, that has not been my experience.

He started by claiming the second law proves I am wrong and his pedantic banter filled with baseless insults was uncalled for.

Nope. You've done nothing here but expose the fact that you are a lowly woo-woo who doesn't even know the first thing about the second law of thermodynamics.

People have been trying to beat that law forever - with free energy, over-unity and perpetual motion. And all they have ever accomplished (beside the con artists that stole other people's money) is wasting their time, resources and money on such silly ideas.

And you fit right in with the worst of them!


Then after I explained that it is not a closed system and so the second law does not apply, rather than apologize, he continues to spew his belligerence and ignorance with things like this:

Back up a notch there and pay a little more attention, OK? I've clearly stated the reasons why all this is sheer woo-wooism: it violates things like thermodynamics. Is that not specific enough for you? And once an idea has been disproven by a single violation, is there really any point in taking it any further?

The problem is, it has not been "disproven" since it did not apply in the first place.

Then, he makes this false claim to try and slip around his initial false claim:

Water is an "infinite source of energy" only as long as there is water and the hydrogen it contains undergoes nuclear fusion - something we've yet to achieve beyond the break-even point as a source of usable power. It's something that WILL be achieved some day but still appears far off for now.


I hate to break it to him but when I Google SONOFUSION, I get 10,500 hits. Apparently he didn't get the memo. Maybe not so far off... in the past..

No, instead he threatens to ban me when he finds himself looking at himself in the mirror of my justice.

It is OK to be ignorant, we all make mistakes and it is OK to be belligerent, sometimes a person needs a good bitch slap like read-only. However, when a person is as belligerent and ignorant as read-only has been, the other people will always perceive that as an injustice because it is.

People that go around being abusive do not admit they are wrong. They are abusive to hide the fact that they are wrong and it is a control tactic. It only works on other dependtards.

But science being what it has become due to magical thinking tends to ban the person that is holding up real science and regard the person that is holding up the magical thinking of belief and disbelief.

I didn't come here to get something, it is clear this site has nothing to offer me. I noticed someone acting like a punk while I was surfing the web and decided to take a moment to smooth out his karma.

Sunlight is a wonderful disinfectant.

[leopold99]

Well maybe you need to get out more.
i've been "getting out" for the past 55 or so years and the only process that i've seen that even approached 100% efficiency was super conducting materials.
i've seen exactly zero processes that have greater than 100% efficiency.

[ElvisLive]

Maybe it has something to do with where you go when you get out. I walk out my front door every day but that does not mean I take a trip to China.

Being old does not make us smart, just old. George Bush (take your pick) is older and has the IQ of a chimp. In fact, Chimpy has a degree in economics and look where we are at the end of eight years.

rohnermachine.com has a nice collection of videos and has replicated the Papp engine.

I would hold that up as a nice example since Nobel Laureate Richard Feynman killed a man and seriously injured several others at Caltech when he pulled the power plug on the device while it was being demonstrated after he magically thought it was a fraud.

He never cleared up the record either but it is ironic that he would get a prize from a dead explosive inventor isn't it? Life is filled with irony but irony is created from truth and so is intelligence.

[leopold99]

rohnermachine.com has a nice collection of videos and has replicated the Papp engine.

the very fact that this engine needs periodic "recharging" proves it isn't greater than 100% efficient. as a matter of fact it proves conclusively that it is less than 100% efficient.

[ElvisLive]

the very fact that this engine needs periodic "recharging" proves it isn't greater than 100% efficient. as a matter of fact it proves conclusively that it is less than 100% efficient.

Not exactly. It proves two things:

1. The engine can do more work than the work required to produce the engine and the fuel which makes it greater than 100% efficient.

2. You failed to read what I wrote and base your argument on that information. Instead you based your argument on a magical thought.

Your definition of 100% would be impossible because energy does not magically come from nowhere and at no time did I state it did.

It takes energy to mine metals, transport them, melt them, form them, etc. into a Papp engine. It takes fuel that is converted into the atomic energy contained within the mass and in the end, using this and other methods and devices, it is possible to produce more energy than consumed using stable mass as an atomic energy source.

So you can play word games or you can read what I wrote and do the math based on that. What you can't do is change my argument and base your math on your own BS.

When you are in a hole, stop digging.

[leopold99]

Not exactly.
yes, exactly.
It proves two things:

1. The engine can do more work than the work required to produce the engine and the fuel which makes it greater than 100% efficient.
not if you have to put energy into it by "recharging" it.
furthermore "producing the engine" has nothing whatsoever to do with efficiency.

2. You failed to read what I wrote and base your argument on that information. Instead you based your argument on a magical thought.

okay.

[ElvisLive]

yes, exactly.

not if you have to put energy into it by "recharging" it.
furthermore "producing the engine" has nothing whatsoever to do with efficiency.

okay.
You are trying to use a technique to destroy truth that is commonly used against this argument and here is how it works:

I argue that mass can be converted into the atomic energy contained in the mass and using that as a fuel source, more work can be produced than it took release the atomic energy in the mass.

Then usually the next argument is thermodynamics but that one goes down in flames when confronted with the reality that it is not a closed system (a closed mind perhaps) and there is an external fuel source so the second law does not apply.

Usually you get banned or fired for holding up that bit of reality which is brute force suppression and control by magical thinking dependtards.

Next they try to switch things around and confuse anyone that is listening since most of them have been reaction conditioned or programmed to come to a false conclusion anyway. That is where we stand presently.

Notice how he has attempted to flip the argument, make a slight modification and is now agreeing with me?


He claims it is not 100% efficient because it needs a small amount of gas every 40,000 miles.

I said thermodynamics does not apply since an external fuel source is supplied and it is not a closed system.


The work required to produce the gas and even the engine MUST BE included to arrive at a efficiency measurement but he claims it does not matter.


Do you see how he is confused or is a tool attempting to confuse you?

The amount of work energy produced is greater than he amount of work required to produce it and that is >100% efficiency.

The difference between the 2000 gallons of gas that it takes to run my car 40,000 miles and the few ounces of gas it takes to run that car 40,000 miles with a Papp engine is the difference between a chemical reaction and an atomic reaction.

Whether it is a conscious act, a function of ignorance or mind control, anyone living in reality can follow these posts and do the math and it is not complicated. People are complicated.

[MacGyver1968]

I'm not quite understanding how exactly what's going on in this engine. Could you explain it to me, Elvis? (in simple terms, please :) )

Thanks,

Mac

[Read-Only]

A Shocking New Pump
.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff2000/ip3.htm

Apparently there is some strange filter that does not allow me to post a link - How weird. Add a www to the front end and if posting a link to NASA gets me banned, I could care less at this point.

The person that makes that pump claims > 100% efficiency. That would be the pump I cited on youtube for which I was called a number of names by read-only.

Pure balderdash and poppycock! Please show us where ANYONE at that company claims the pump produces greater than 100% efficiency.:bugeye:

That pump is being used in a number of ordinary industrial applications. But it what YOU claim was possible, it would be used for producing energy alone - since an efficiency number higher than 100% would be an energy-producing device.

One of only two things apply here - either you do not understand technology or you are a liar! Which is it? And we are waiting for proof of your claim, also.

[leopold99]

The amount of work energy produced is greater than he amount of work required to produce it and that is >100% efficiency.

well alrighty then!
go build your miracle engine that produces more energy that it uses and sell the surplus and make millions.

by golly you're a genius!!!!

[ElvisLive]

Pure balderdash and poppycock! Please show us where ANYONE at that company claims the pump produces greater than 100% efficiency.:bugeye:

That pump is being used in a number of ordinary industrial applications. But it what YOU claim was possible, it would be used for producing energy alone - since an efficiency number higher than 100% would be an energy-producing device.

One of only two things apply here - either you do not understand technology or you are a liar! Which is it? And we are waiting for proof of your claim, also.

Liar? WTF is your mental problem?

It is your funeral, you had less than zero credibility before making that stupid post.

Read em and weep:

FUELLESS HEATER NO FUEL NO GAS NO WOOD NO GREEN HOUSE GASES
youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw

You need to clear up your false claims and lies and until you do, I really have nothing for you but this simple question:

How is that someone that claims to be educated and claims to have worked at a lab where research is done can't Google the name of the inventor or the company or even pick the phone and give him a call? Can't find Google.com? Do you need someone to research the phone number for you?

Why don't you take a stab at it on your own at whitepages.com - If it goes over your head, get a different big person to help you out. I'm too busy for the likes of you.

[leopold99]

I'm not quite understanding how exactly what's going on in this engine. Could you explain it to me, Elvis? (in simple terms, please :) )

Thanks,

Mac
c'mon mac, don't be sucked into this.
unless of course you're just looking to go a few rounds.

BTW his claim that feynman killed someone is an outright lie.

[MacGyver1968]

I'm just a glutton for punishment...I guess. :)

I just wanted to see if could explain how it worked...from what I have read, no one understands...not even the inventor.

[leopold99]

I just wanted to see if could explain how it worked...from what I have read, no one understands...not even the inventor.
nobody understands it because nobody believes in perpetual motion mac.
do you really believe someone would build such a device and not know how it works?

use your head here.
you build this thing.
nobody wants to buy it because it will "put oil companys out of business"
what would you do? splash it on the internet "i've got a secret"?
or
splash it on the internet exactly how to build it and tell the oil companys to eat shit?

[MacGyver1968]

Dude..If I came up with this idea, I would be using 100 dollar bills, to light the 100 dollar bill I use to light my Cuban Cigars with. :)

I just like playing with woos. :)

[leopold99]

Dude..If I came up with this idea, I would be using 100 dollar bills, to light the 100 dollar bill I use to light my Cuban Cigars with. :)

well fire that mother up then! :D oops wrong emote. :m:

[fedr808]

I had heard of a lab where they set salt water on fire.

They were doing some wierd test with radio waves and put a beaker between two large transmitters. (might not have been radio waves, couldve been something else, pretty darn sure it was radio) And the signal seperated the hydrogen from the oxygen and than it burnt both of them efectively setting the water on fire.

Of course this is a case of taking more energy than it creates.

[Read-Only]

Liar? WTF is your mental problem?

It is your funeral, you had less than zero credibility before making that stupid post.

Read em and weep:

FUELLESS HEATER NO FUEL NO GAS NO WOOD NO GREEN HOUSE GASES
youtube.com/watch?v=yh_-DUKQ4Uw

You need to clear up your false claims and lies and until you do, I really have nothing for you but this simple question:

How is that someone that claims to be educated and claims to have worked at a lab where research is done can't Google the name of the inventor or the company or even pick the phone and give him a call? Can't find Google.com? Do you need someone to research the phone number for you?

Why don't you take a stab at it on your own at whitepages.com - If it goes over your head, get a different big person to help you out. I'm too busy for the likes of you.

Got even MORE news for you, dummy! That factory is only 2.5 hours from my front door. How do I know that? Because I've visited it and talked with the people that work there. And not one single individual mentioned the stupid efficiency claim that YOU made for their pump!!!!!

Now get down on the floor and grovel like the ignorant rooting animal that you are!!!

Oh, and just in passing, you cannot just make up your own home-brewed definition of efficiency. It has nothing to do with mining, refining, etc. as you claimed in one of your silliest posts - it's nothing more than the energy input of a device or process compared to the energy output. It's just that simple and anyone with a half-decent education is fully aware of it. So I guess that a great deal about your lack of intelligence and/or education, eh?

One more thing: at NO time did I threaten to ban you!!! Dang! I'm not even a Mod here (not that you are smart enough to even check). My statement about you not being long for this place was due to the fact that as all the intelligent folks here pick up on you and your silly garbage (which they have just started doing), they will rip both you and your nonsensical claims to shreds. So read the writing on the wall and weep and suffer - you well deserve it.

[Read-Only]

I had heard of a lab where they set salt water on fire.

They were doing some wierd test with radio waves and put a beaker between two large transmitters. (might not have been radio waves, couldve been something else, pretty darn sure it was radio) And the signal seperated the hydrogen from the oxygen and than it burnt both of them efectively setting the water on fire.

Of course this is a case of taking more energy than it creates.

Yep, that was a guy doing cancer research and he was using RF frequencies. And you're correct about it taking more energy than burning the freed hydrogen produced.

The problem arose only AFTER some third-party dummies got involved and started making baseless claims of over-unity. We had a big thread some time back that dealt with all the nonsense about those false claims. And the original researcher wasn't involved in them at all - just some fruitcakes like ElvisLive that popped up. (And he'll suffer the same fate that they did - fading into oblivion where he belongs.)

[MacGyver1968]

Got even MORE news for you, dummy! That factory is only 2.5 hours from my front door. How do I know that? Because I've visited it and talked with the people that work there. And not one single individual mentioned the stupid efficiency claim that YOU made for their pump!!!!!

Now get down on the floor and grovel like the ignorant rooting animal that you are!!!

Oh, and just in passing, you cannot just make up your own home-brewed definition of efficiency. It has nothing to do with mining, refining, etc. as you claimed in one of your silliest posts - it's nothing more than the energy input of a device or process compared to the energy output. It's just that simple and anyone with a half-decent education is fully aware of it. So I guess that a great deal about your lack of intelligence and/or education, eh?

One more thing: at NO time did I threaten to ban you!!! Dang! I'm not even a Mod here (not that you are smart enough to even check). My statement about you not being long for this place was due to the fact that as all the intelligent folks here pick up on you and your silly garbage (which they have just started doing), they will rip both you and your nonsensical claims to shreds. So read the writing on the wall and weep and suffer - you well deserve it.

I wish in the video they wouldn't have cut it off...in the beginning it talks about how the guy got the idea, but it got cut off. I'd love to hear it. While I don't believe this machine could go OU, I would be interested if someone could explain how it heats the water. Is it friction? It's a great idea for a different way to heat water, especially in an application where open flames or direct heat sources would be dangerous. (like in a fireworks factory or something :) )

The OU claim in the video would be easy to confirm. We already have steam engine technology, just use the steam produced to power a steam engine without the boiler. They were claiming a 70% OU in the video, if that was the case, even with losses due to friction, the steam engine would have more power than the electric motor powering the pump. If indeed the output was greater, you could use that steam engine to turn an even bigger pump..creating more free energy..the that one could turn an even bigger pump. With an entire tree branch of 100's of stages of these pumps, we could power the entire world on a single 220v 20amp circuit. Sweetness.

[ElvisLive]

Got even MORE news for you, dummy! That factory is only 2.5 hours from my front door. How do I know that? Because I've visited it and talked with the people that work there. And not one single individual mentioned the stupid efficiency claim that YOU made for their pump!!!!!

Now get down on the floor and grovel like the ignorant rooting animal that you are!!!

Oh, and just in passing, you cannot just make up your own home-brewed definition of efficiency. It has nothing to do with mining, refining, etc. as you claimed in one of your silliest posts - it's nothing more than the energy input of a device or process compared to the energy output. It's just that simple and anyone with a half-decent education is fully aware of it. So I guess that a great deal about your lack of intelligence and/or education, eh?

One more thing: at NO time did I threaten to ban you!!! Dang! I'm not even a Mod here (not that you are smart enough to even check). My statement about you not being long for this place was due to the fact that as all the intelligent folks here pick up on you and your silly garbage (which they have just started doing), they will rip both you and your nonsensical claims to shreds. So read the writing on the wall and weep and suffer - you well deserve it.

I got news for you too dummy. I have seen the inventor interviewed where he did claim over 100% and just because someone didn't write it on your dependtard forehead does not mean that it does not, or can not go OU.

There are plenty of companies that make that same pump that do claim OU and in the video I cited that was made at that factory they claim OU. So I don't what magical little world you live in but it is not out here in reality.

Next - I can include the energy cost to produce the device if I want to. That is the nature of a functioning mind that forms original and critical thought.

It is important to include energy construction costs because it does you no good to build a device that takes a billion megawatts of power that will only produce a single megawatt of power in its useless lifetime, like you.

Get down on the floor and grovel? Stop smoking that -> :m:

Why don't you explain how the second law applies to a system that has an external fuel source like you falsely claimed.

Better yet, why don't you stick a gun in your mouth and breath in some hot gun powder. It would not be over unity per se, but it would be over and then there would be unity.

[ElvisLive]

c'mon mac, don't be sucked into this.
unless of course you're just looking to go a few rounds.

BTW his claim that feynman killed someone is an outright lie.

Right...

Why don't you Google "Feynman Papp" go through the 3160 hits and use that information to gather more information until you get to a California Court. The do a docket search and see what what you get. You will find that the record is sealed. Papp won a settlement.

Contact the San Mateo newspapers. I am sure they would have reported on the incident. Contact the San Mateo police dept. I am sure they would have investigated the incident.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp

The problem with an anonymous user name or someone with no credibility is they don't mind losing the credibility they never had.

Did I get an explanation for the second law cite from read-only? Nope, it is like it is invisible.

This web site has no value to me. The difference between this web site and some evangelical religion is what they believe in and worship and that is not science or reality.

C-ya

[MacGyver1968]

Right...

Why don't you Google "Feynman Papp" go through the 3160 hits ...

FYI..not trying to be an asshole or anything..but the number of google hits on a subject is quite irrelevant to importance.

Otherwise "nude blowjob" would be the most important thing on earth. :)

It's kinda an unwritten rule around here about asking others to look up the point that you are trying to make. Best thing to do is pick the best of those 3160 hits, and repost the relevant portion here with proper credits as a quote. I know RO..he only goes for the throat if he feels you got nothing...try to prove him wrong. :)

[leopold99]

This web site has no value to me.

C-ya
after reading where you told read-only to "stick a gun in his mouth" i am positive you WILL NOT be missed here.
i would like to say "good-bye" but the more appropriate response would be "good riddance and please don't come back".

[MacGyver1968]

after reading where you told read-only to "stick a gun in his mouth" i am positive you WILL NOT be missed here.
i would like to say "good-bye" but the more appropriate response would be "good riddance and please don't come back".

Oh I missed that part about stick a gun in your mouth. I retract my kindness I was trying to show.

Elvis,
Please accept this entire case of "kiss my ass" as a parting gift from SF ! Don't let the door hit you in your ass on the way out!

[Ladicius]

The "integrity" of the NZ media is very much like that of media organisations everywhere. The criteria have bugger-all to do with hard science, and everything to do with "a story" - even if the story is out there.
For example, recently a reporter interviewed someone in NZ who claims they can run a car on H20, after extracting hydrogen from it, or something. I watched the interview but so few details were given (it's all rather hush-hush of course) I had no real idea what the working principle is. There has been a fair queue of dudes with similar claims, throughout the history of the combustion engine, and often these ideas seem to pop up when oil is scarce - like during global wars, oil shortages or high prices.

Perhaps those are the only real things involved, though. I reserve judgement, but no previous claim of combustion of H20 in a heat-cycle engine has yet emerged as a real working machine, that I know about anyway.

I actually made a car run on water, it's called an HHO generator. I did it for a school science project. It's pretty old though, and it's not "hush hush"

[Read-Only]

Right...

Why don't you Google "Feynman Papp" go through the 3160 hits and use that information to gather more information until you get to a California Court. The do a docket search and see what what you get. You will find that the record is sealed. Papp won a settlement.

Contact the San Mateo newspapers. I am sure they would have reported on the incident. Contact the San Mateo police dept. I am sure they would have investigated the incident.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Papp

The problem with an anonymous user name or someone with no credibility is they don't mind losing the credibility they never had.

Did I get an explanation for the second law cite from read-only? Nope, it is like it is invisible.

This web site has no value to me. The difference between this web site and some evangelical religion is what they believe in and worship and that is not science or reality.

C-ya

That's wonderful! :D Good riddance! My predictions don't always come true (and never over 100%:D) but I'm very glad this one did - and quickly, too!

I figured they be giving you body slams and the did. Couldn't handle the pressure of truth against your fraudulent lies - as I expected.

You will be missed ONLY in the sense of the way one misses a toothache when it's gone. Welcome to oblivion, dummy, that's exactly where you belong, back under the rock you crawled from beneath prior to showing up here.

[Read-Only]

I actually made a car run on water, it's called an HHO generator. I did it for a school science project. It's pretty old though, and it's not "hush hush"

Yes, that's "Brown's Gas" and has been around for a very long time.:)

It does work, but it's HIGHLY inefficient. Any multistage energy conversion process always is, due to the energy losses in each stage of conversion.

But the fact that is does work, even if only marginally, doesn't keep the hucksters form popping up every five years or so as they try to pawn it off on people who aren't technically savvy. And the spread of the Internet PLUS all the big hikes in gasoline costs over the past two years or so has REALLY brought them crawling out of the woodwork like the roaches/leeches that they are! Just Google "HHO", "HOH" or "Brown's Gas" and you'll find those snake oil salesmen everywhere.

[ElvisLive]

That's wonderful! :D Good riddance! My predictions don't always come true (and never over 100%:D) but I'm very glad this one did - and quickly, too!

I figured they be giving you body slams and the did. Couldn't handle the pressure of truth against your fraudulent lies - as I expected.

You will be missed ONLY in the sense of the way one misses a toothache when it's gone. Welcome to oblivion, dummy, that's exactly where you belong, back under the rock you crawled from beneath prior to showing up here.

Why would anyone with a functioning brain post here? They wouldn't and they don't.

You are an asshole of monumental proportions and you were the one that couldn't handle the heat when you falsely claimed second law on an open system. If only there were intelligent life here to marvel at your lack of integrity and intelligence.

You are a thug and a moron evidenced by your fascination with smilies, pedantic banter and an inability to self reflect or accept the possibility that maybe you have a serious personality problem.

You are also wrong about HHO production. All you do is spread disinformation.

Tell us all about how second law applies to an open system with an external fuel source dummy. Wow..

[synthesizer-patel]

Why would anyone with a functioning brain post here? They wouldn't and they don't.

You are an asshole of monumental proportions and you were the one that couldn't handle the heat when you falsely claimed second law on an open system. If only there were intelligent life here to marvel at your lack of integrity and intelligence.

You are a thug and a moron evidenced by your fascination with smilies, pedantic banter and an inability to self reflect or accept the possibility that maybe you have a serious personality problem.

You are also wrong about HHO production. All you do is spread disinformation.

Tell us all about how second law applies to an open system with an external fuel source dummy. Wow..

Are you OilIsMastery in disguise?

[Read-Only]

Why would anyone with a functioning brain post here? They wouldn't and they don't.

You are an asshole of monumental proportions and you were the one that couldn't handle the heat when you falsely claimed second law on an open system. If only there were intelligent life here to marvel at your lack of integrity and intelligence.

You are a thug and a moron evidenced by your fascination with smilies, pedantic banter and an inability to self reflect or accept the possibility that maybe you have a serious personality problem.

You are also wrong about HHO production. All you do is spread disinformation.

Tell us all about how second law applies to an open system with an external fuel source dummy. Wow..

DRAT!!!! You are SUCH a liar - say you're leaving and then come back!!!:bugeye:

OK, since you obviously aren't bright enough to figure it out, I'll explain how the second law applies and do it in VERY simple terms so that you can take it someone who will then break it down into single syllables for you. Maybe then you can get it.

The fact that it requires an external fuel source at all proves it isn't a over-unity device. A true over-unity device (which cannot possibly exist anyway) would produce enough energy to KEEP itself running in addition to producing an excess of power which could be drawn off.

Now go and get back under your rock!!!:mad:

[ElvisLive]

DRAT!!!! You are SUCH a liar - say you're leaving and then come back!!!:bugeye:

OK, since you obviously aren't bright enough to figure it out, I'll explain how the second law applies and do it in VERY simple terms so that you can take it someone who will then break it down into single syllables for you. Maybe then you can get it.

The fact that it requires an external fuel source at all proves it isn't a over-unity device. A true over-unity device (which cannot possibly exist anyway) would produce enough energy to KEEP itself running in addition to producing an excess of power which could be drawn off.

Now go and get back under your rock!!!:mad:

Admit it, you missed me retard. Your response is still sub human yet refreshingly less obnoxious due to the fact that you at least tried to answer the question but failed again.

"A true over unity device"? And you don't see the magical thinking and thought control in your statement?

(On a serious professional note - your personality is of one that has been exposed to high levels of mercury. EDTA is the molecule we use to treat that.)

Let's try this since you are attracted to loud noises, moving light and bold colors like a bug or a person that suffers from mercury poisoning.

(note - I used 67 of your retard smilies you communicate with but was limited to three so had to delete them. Just pretend they are there. F'ing photon conservation society is holding down the man.)

SECOND LAW DOES NOT APPLY!
IT IS GREATER THAN 100% EFFICIENT!

Helpful?

Einstein rightly stated a gallon of water had enough energy to run a train around the Earth 100 times. That would be more energy than I use in a lifetime. I piss that much water in two days time and you can have all you want free. If it is a fake free energy train powered by piss I am willing to agree to the term "piss off fake energy".

So now that we agree that a car engine can run on a few ounces of cheap fuel for 40,000 miles using an atomic conversion of the mass, I would say that the car is more efficient than it was when it ran on gas at %25 efficiency.

I estimate it would take 2000 gallons of gas verses 1 cup of noble gas to drive 40,000 miles.

Since a gasoline engine is roughly 25% efficient, 2000 gallons x 16 cups = 32,000 cups of gasoline.

- verses -

1 cup of noble gases.

My car just became 32,000% more "piss off fake energy" efficient. I can live with that.

Oops! I just went over the magical number of 100% [Inset your freak out here]

You can't seem to understand that there is a difference between a chemical rocket and an atomic rocket. The amount of work in verses the amount of work out is over your head? That is the definition of efficiency I am using - deal with the reality of it.

All you can do is recite some irrelevant seconds law like a broken record player written by men describing steam engines and fire before electric lights and automobiles and atomic energy. You really need to free your mind and turn on the lights of the 21st century.

"If you argue for your limitations, you shall have them." - Seagull

[Read-Only]

Admit it, you missed me retard. Your response is still sub human yet refreshingly less obnoxious due to the fact that you at least tried to answer the question but failed again.

"A true over unity device"? And you don't see the magical thinking and thought control in your statement?

(On a serious professional note - your personality is of one that has been exposed to high levels of mercury. EDTA is the molecule we use to treat that.)

Let's try this since you are attracted to loud noises, moving light and bold colors like a bug or a person that suffers from mercury poisoning.

(note - I used 67 of your retard smilies you communicate with but was limited to three so had to delete them. Just pretend they are there. F'ing photon conservation society is holding down the man.)

SECOND LAW DOES NOT APPLY!
IT IS GREATER THAN 100% EFFICIENT!

Helpful?

Einstein rightly stated a gallon of water had enough energy to run a train around the Earth 100 times. That would be more energy than I use in a lifetime. I piss that much water in two days time and you can have all you want free. If it is a fake free energy train powered by piss I am willing to agree to the term "piss off fake energy".

So now that we agree that a car engine can run on a few ounces of cheap fuel for 40,000 miles using an atomic conversion of the mass, I would say that the car is more efficient than it was when it ran on gas at %25 efficiency.

I estimate it would take 2000 gallons of gas verses 1 cup of noble gas to drive 40,000 miles.

Since a gasoline engine is roughly 25% efficient, 2000 gallons x 16 cups = 32,000 cups of gasoline.

- verses -

1 cup of noble gases.

My car just became 32,000% more "piss off fake energy" efficient. I can live with that.

Oops! I just went over the magical number of 100% [Inset your freak out here]

You can't seem to understand that there is a difference between a chemical rocket and an atomic rocket. The amount of work in verses the amount of work out is over your head? That is the definition of efficiency I am using - deal with the reality of it.

All you can do is recite some irrelevant seconds law like a broken record player written by men describing steam engines and fire before electric lights and automobiles and atomic energy. You really need to free your mind and turn on the lights of the 21st century.

"If you argue for your limitations, you shall have them." - Seagull

Very sorry excuses for REAL science! You've done little here besides expose your huge gap of understanding physics. And you still cannot substitute your own flaky definition of efficiency for the real one. If we all started doing that, scientists would not be able to communicate between each other - much less produce meaningful work if any or all definitions were nothing more than what each (rather stupid) individual wanted them to be,

And you are a LONG way from even understanding what true over-unity wold be (if it could exist - which it doesn't).

[leopold99]

Admit it, you missed me retard. Your response is still sub human yet refreshingly less obnoxious due to the fact that you at least tried to answer the question but failed again.

"A true over unity device"? And you don't see the magical thinking and thought control in your statement?

(On a serious professional note - your personality is of one that has been exposed to high levels of mercury. EDTA is the molecule we use to treat that.)

Let's try this since you are attracted to loud noises, moving light and bold colors like a bug or a person that suffers from mercury poisoning.

(note - I used 67 of your retard smilies you communicate with but was limited to three so had to delete them. Just pretend they are there. F'ing photon conservation society is holding down the man.)

SECOND LAW DOES NOT APPLY!
IT IS GREATER THAN 100% EFFICIENT!

Helpful?

Einstein rightly stated a gallon of water had enough energy to run a train around the Earth 100 times. That would be more energy than I use in a lifetime. I piss that much water in two days time and you can have all you want free. If it is a fake free energy train powered by piss I am willing to agree to the term "piss off fake energy".

So now that we agree that a car engine can run on a few ounces of cheap fuel for 40,000 miles using an atomic conversion of the mass, I would say that the car is more efficient than it was when it ran on gas at %25 efficiency.

I estimate it would take 2000 gallons of gas verses 1 cup of noble gas to drive 40,000 miles.

Since a gasoline engine is roughly 25% efficient, 2000 gallons x 16 cups = 32,000 cups of gasoline.

- verses -

1 cup of noble gases.

My car just became 32,000% more "piss off fake energy" efficient. I can live with that.

Oops! I just went over the magical number of 100% [Inset your freak out here]

You can't seem to understand that there is a difference between a chemical rocket and an atomic rocket. The amount of work in verses the amount of work out is over your head? That is the definition of efficiency I am using - deal with the reality of it.

All you can do is recite some irrelevant seconds law like a broken record player written by men describing steam engines and fire before electric lights and automobiles and atomic energy. You really need to free your mind and turn on the lights of the 21st century.

"If you argue for your limitations, you shall have them." - Seagull

read-only,
give it up dude. can't you see what you are arguing with?

[ElvisLive]

Very sorry excuses for REAL science! You've done little here besides expose your huge gap of understanding physics. And you still cannot substitute your own flaky definition of efficiency for the real one. If we all started doing that, scientists would not be able to communicate between each other - much less produce meaningful work if any or all definitions were nothing more than what each (rather stupid) individual wanted them to be,

And you are a LONG way from even understanding what true over-unity wold be (if it could exist - which it doesn't).

So the "(rather smart)" people that wanted it to be impossible to to get more work out than put in came up with a definition to hide behind along with some word games that made it impossible?

Let's try this. Suppose I break it down into joules or BTUs.

If I put put 100 BTU of heat in and get 200 BTU of heat out would that be 200% efficient by your definition and impossible?

Step into my lair.

[ElvisLive]

Most of this post is nothing but pure bunk!:bugeye: And electrons play NO part in cavitation. Forget your ignorant, stupid youtube videos and read ( and actually STUDY!) some genuine scientific literature. Anything - anything! - is possible in those asinine videos and half the people making "scientific" videos are simply pulling you leg - and the other half are outright lying through their teeth.

As to "getting something from nothing", it goes WAY beyond chemistry and applies to any field you care to name. That was just simple uneducated ignorance speaking when you made that statement. And you are the one who has "magical thinking" - a very HEAVY dose of it!

You are an fraud that should be banned. You just keep getting your belligerent ass handed to you.

Last time I checked, photons and electrons were both quarks

Institute of Applied Physics

Boosting Sonoluminescence
.physik.tu-darmstadt.de/~hofu/paper/boosting/

Single bubble sonoluminescence has been experimentally produced through a novel approach of optimized sound excitation. A driving consisting of a first and second harmonic with selected amplitudes and relative phase results in an increase of light emission compared to sinusoidal driving. We achieved a raise of the maximum photo current of up to 300% with the two-mode sound signal. Numerical simulations of multi-mode excitation of a single bubble are compared to this result.

[Read-Only]

read-only,
give it up dude. can't you see what you are arguing with?

I'm just at that point, Leo.

Yes, he's nothing but an ignorant troll. Not worth wasting any more of my time on. And perhaps if I leave him alone, he'll starve to death for attention and die.

[MacGyver1968]

Don't waste your time, RO. This troll won't last long..they never do.

[Read-Only]

Don't waste your time, RO. This troll won't last long..they never do.

You're right too, Mac. I'm finished with the dummy. (May he NOT rest in peace.) ;)

[phlogistician]

Last time I checked, photons and electrons were both quarks


Woah, my physics is rusty, but electrons carry the 'elementary charge', same as a proton, but a proton has internal structure, and is comprised of quarks with fractional charges that partly cancel each other out to make the 'elementary charge'. So far, we have not detected any internal structure relating to electrons.

Quarks have mass, photons only momentum, er, what else? What does it matter, Elvis is mistaken. Perhaps he should 'check again'.

[Read-Only]

Woah, my physics is rusty, but electrons carry the 'elementary charge', same as a proton, but a proton has internal structure, and is comprised of quarks with fractional charges that partly cancel each other out to make the 'elementary charge'. So far, we have not detected any internal structure relating to electrons.

Quarks have mass, photons only momentum, er, what else? What does it matter, Elvis is mistaken. Perhaps he should 'check again'.

You are correct and I started to post that myself (along with a couple of other points). But I figured it would only be feeding the troll and he would come back with even more nonsense. He needs to die of starvation.

[fedr808]

I actually made a car run on water, it's called an HHO generator. I did it for a school science project. It's pretty old though, and it's not "hush hush"

Big whup, i can buy kits on sky mall for 199 dollars that do it.

And also they come with colorful pictures:D:D:D

[ElvisLive]

Woah, my physics is rusty, but electrons carry the 'elementary charge', same as a proton, but a proton has internal structure, and is comprised of quarks with fractional charges that partly cancel each other out to make the 'elementary charge'. So far, we have not detected any internal structure relating to electrons.

Quarks have mass, photons only momentum, er, what else? What does it matter, Elvis is mistaken. Perhaps he should 'check again'.

I did and I was wrong and can admit it unlike some. Thanks for the push back that was not insulting to both of us.

The point I was trying to make is that sonofusion emits light and the electron is affected by the force carrier particle of the electromagnetic force which is the photon.

So for read-only to state "And electrons play NO part in cavitation" would be
incorrect and laughable at a particle physics level. It would be like claiming water has no part in life at a biological level.

[synthesizer-patel]

Elvis = do you make breakfast machines too?

I really want one

[ElvisLive]

Elvis = do you make breakfast machines too?

I really want one

Can you make something besides 1660 catty one line sarcastic remarks?

I don't want one.

[AlphaNumeric]

Let's try this. Suppose I break it down into joules or BTUs.

If I put put 100 BTU of heat in and get 200 BTU of heat out would that be 200% efficient by your definition and impossible?

Step into my lair.Given a tank of petrol I can put in only a few Joules of energy in the form of a burning match and get out billions of Joules of energy. Is me setting fire to a car therefore over unity efficiency? Nope. Because the efficiency is a measure of how much of the total available energy is turned into 'useful' energy, which in the case of a car is kinetic energy getting you somewhere.

A car is 25% efficient because 25% of the energy in the petrol ends up as kinetic energy in the motion of the car. Our bodies are about 30% efficient because 70% of the energy in our food is wasted as thermal energy. When I run, I begin to sweat because for every 3 Joules of kinetic energy my muscles put into me moving they create 7 Joules of heat, which I must get rid of or my body chemistry breaks down and I die.

If you have a car which has some kind of atomic reactor, ie you put in some heavy water rather than petrol you don't measure its efficiency by the amount of energy the fusion of heavy water gives compared to the amount burning petrol gives, you measure its efficiency by the ratio of the amount of energy the heavy water has available in totall compared to how much of that becomes kinetic energy in the car. If a cup of heavy water has a total energy content of 1 trillion Joules but only 1 billion of those ends up as motion in the car then its efficiency is 0.1% (1 in 1000, I use the American notions of billion and trillion). Its irrelevant that a petrol based car can turn the 1 million Joules in a cup of petrol into 0.25 million joules of kinetic energy (ie a 25% efficiency). Utterly irrelevant.

The 'atomic car' might be dealing with amounts of energy which are much higher or energy sources which are much more compact, but the definition of efficiency is the ratio of useful energy to total input energy.

Suppose to get to 100mph you need to put in 1 million Joules of energy to your car. A petrol engine will need an amount of petrol which contains 4 million Joules of total energy, if its 25% efficient. Let's suppose that volume of petrol is 100ml (honestly I have no idea, its a thought experiment). The remaining 3 million is lost as heat, unburnt carbon molecules, unpleasant nitrogen based combustion products and noise. If an atomic car needs 100 million Joules, which is contained within 1ml of heavy water that doesn't mean the atomic car is 100 times more efficient because its fuel is 100 times smaller but infact it has an efficiency of 1%, because its input fuel has 100 million Joules of which only 1 million end up as useful energy. So its efficiency is 25 times LESS, despite it using 100 times less volume of fuel. Infact, the volume of the fuel is IRRELEVANT. It all comes down to how much energy is exchanged from fuel to useful.

Mind you, this is a pretty complicated topic. That's why here in the UK they don't teach the concept of energy efficiency till you reach the heady heights of 7th grade.

[Read-Only]

Mind you, this is a pretty complicated topic. That's why here in the UK they don't teach the concept of energy efficiency till you reach the heady heights of 7th grade.

HEH! That's one of the most subtle put-downs I've seen in quite a while - direct and to the point!:D

It's also worth noting that by the time a student leaves the 7th grade they also understand that people cannot just make up any definition for an established process/parameter/equation that suits their silly fancy. Gotta play by the rules or there is NO ball game at all.:D:D

[ElvisLive]

Given a tank of petrol I can put in only a few Joules of energy in the form of a burning match and get out billions of Joules of energy. Is me setting fire to a car therefore over unity efficiency? Nope. Because the efficiency is a measure of how much of the total available energy is turned into 'useful' energy, which in the case of a car is kinetic energy getting you somewhere.


It all comes down to how much energy is exchanged from fuel to useful.



Quote edited for the purpose of conserving photons and preserving the civility of the human race in an attempt to make this conversation more efficient while conceding the conversation could never be 100% efficient.

I understand the definition of efficiency in the terms that you are working with. Maybe you answer this question and then we would have a real conversation. Otherwise, what exactly is the purpose of this forum?

Suppose I have 1 gallon of gas made of deuterium and carbon and I throw your match on it and it burns releasing X amount of energy. Then I take that same gallon of gas and and fuse it using hydrogen bomb technology and it releases Y amount of energy.

The difference between the two is a chemical reaction verses an atomic reaction. What or how would you describe the difference of efficiency on the thermal release of energy between the two reactions?

Wouldn't it be acceptable to state that the atomic reaction is X amount more efficient?

I just watched some videos of Dr. Puharich describing his water car technology he invented and patented back in the 70's. He does use the term 100% efficient and if you know anything about Dr. Puharich, you know that he was a pretty smart guy that had the ability to think outside the box.

EDIT -

And just to keep simple enough for all you 7 grade graduates and above, I would add to that we are talking about sonofusion. Fusion is the conversion of mass into atomic energy. The water is an external fuel source and so second law does not apply.

So since we are NOT talking in terms of perpetual motion, perhaps we could use the terms that are commonly used and accepted when describing the efficiency of the technology discussion at hand.

[ElvisLive]

HEH! That's one of the most subtle put-downs I've seen in quite a while - direct and to the point!

It's also worth noting that by the time a student leaves the 7th grade they also understand that people cannot just make up any definition for an established process/parameter/equation that suits their silly fancy. Gotta play by the rules or there is NO ball game at all.

Most 7th graders know the difference between and open and closed system and use the terms appropriate for the system being discussed. It is also worth noting that most seventh graders could realize this and see that it is in fact you that has "just make up any definition for an established process".

As always, your ignorance is as profound as your belligerence. If you think that you are going to reframe the argument in an attempt to hide the fact that you cited second law for an open system with an external fuel source and that electrons play no role in cavitation, you are wrong as always.

Subtle enough for you? Here are some free smilies to compliment the pedantic banter you use to hide your inability to read at a 7th grade level. :D:D:D

[MacGyver1968]

Can someone explain to me what cavitation is? The only time I've ever heard that word used was in a documentary about the guy who invented the screw propeller for boats. In his original design..the screw looked like a classic Archimedes screw with four or five turns. They experienced a problem, where the boat would not go any faster now matter how much power they applied. By accident, the screw broke into, and only a small portion was left (looking much like a modern screw). The boat immediately lunged forward with new speed. It was said that cavitation was the problem. From what I understand, the screw created many small bubbles, so the screw was pushing against air instead of solid water. What exactly is cavatation? and how does it apply here?

[ElvisLive]

Can someone explain to me what cavitation is? The only time I've ever heard that word used was in a documentary about the guy who invented the screw propeller for boats. In his original design..the screw looked like a classic Archimedes screw with four or five turns. They experienced a problem, where the boat would not go any faster now matter how much power they applied. By accident, the screw broke into, and only a small portion was left (looking much like a modern screw). The boat immediately lunged forward with new speed. It was said that cavitation was the problem. From what I understand, the screw created many small bubbles, so the screw was pushing against air instead of solid water. What exactly is cavatation? and how does it apply here?



Dude..If I came up with this idea, I would be using 100 dollar bills, to light the 100 dollar bill I use to light my Cuban Cigars with. :)

I just like playing with woos. :)

Why don't you go play with yourself. I don't think you are mature or intelligent enough to be trusted with matches just like your fellow dependtards that can't read or think at a 7th grade level.

[AlphaNumeric]

Suppose I have 1 gallon of gas made of deuterium and carbon and I throw your match on it and it burns releasing X amount of energy. Then I take that same gallon of gas and and fuse it using hydrogen bomb technology and it releases Y amount of energy.

The difference between the two is a chemical reaction verses an atomic reaction. What or how would you describe the difference of efficiency on the thermal release of energy between the two reactions?

Wouldn't it be acceptable to state that the atomic reaction is X amount more efficient?No, it wouldn't. If you consider random thermal energy as 'useful energy' then burning it or fusing it gives you a 100% efficiency. Using it as a fusion fuel means its a more compact fuel source but that's nothing to do with efficiency.

Efficiency = Useful energy / Total energy. However much you wish to bend or ignore this it isn't going to change. If a car can only turn X Joules in every 100 Joules of energy released by a fuel, its X % efficient. Doesn't matter how many 100's of Joules a fuel has, the efficiency is the measure of how much of that the engine turns into useful work. If burning a gallon of gas gives you X Joules of useful work, while fusing gives you X+1 that doesn't mean the fusion engine is more efficient, it means it is a better energy extraction mechanism in terms of total energy. But if all it can muster is 1 Joule improvement then it'll be wasting VAST amounts of energy as heat or radiation. That's less efficient.

I just watched some videos of Dr. Puharich describing his water car technology he invented and patented back in the 70's. He does use the term 100% efficient and if you know anything about Dr. Puharich, you know that he was a pretty smart guy that had the ability to think outside the box.
Newton, considered by many to be at the very least in the top3 scientists ever believed in Bible codes and alchemy. Doesn't mean I do. Josephson, who won a Nobel Prize for his PhD thesis, believes stuff about our minds creating the universe (quantum mechanics and conciousness and all that), doesn't mean I do.

The fact a great many people, with access to a lot of nifty bits of lab equipment, haven't reproduced this Dr. Puharich's work in the suppsed 40 years since he came up with it (and if its patented, it must be explained in detail, enough to replicate) instantly makes me question his claims. I'm not an experimentalist but I'm no slouch when it comes to physics and I happen to work in a physics department with lots of the aforementioned bits of nifty lab equipment, all of them manned by people who tinker with nanomaterials, liquid crystals, Josephson bridges (of the Nobel Prize winning thesis) and everything inbetween. And given there's no massive global conspiracy about keeping the secrets of the universe from the great unwashed and dithering masses (because if there is, where's my damn kick back!), I'm led to the conclusion that people like Dr. Puharich prey on the just mentioned unwashed, dithering masses, who all in all are almost scientifically illiterate, as this thread has demonstrated. As such, he's finding the gullible idiots out there (and there's plenty) and conning them. After all, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Unfortunately, you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Some of us have actually gotten past 7th grade.

[MacGyver1968]

Why don't you go play with yourself. I don't think you are mature or intelligent enough to be trusted with matches just like your fellow dependtards that can't read or think at a 7th grade level.

I thought you left already? I was asking a real science question about a topic relevant to this discussion. I just want to know what the fuck cavatation is..so I better my knowledge of the subject matter. My physics knowledge isn't much more than a 7th grade level, and I was just trying to learn something. I didn't direct this question to you, but to anyone reading.

I hope you get banned soon.

Please go fuck yourself.

[ElvisLive]

No, it wouldn't. If you consider random thermal energy as 'useful energy' then burning it or fusing it gives you a 100% efficiency. Using it as a fusion fuel means its a more compact fuel source but that's nothing to do with efficiency.

Efficiency = Useful energy / Total energy. However much you wish to bend or ignore this it isn't going to change. If a car can only turn X Joules in every 100 Joules of energy released by a fuel, its X % efficient. Doesn't matter how many 100's of Joules a fuel has, the efficiency is the measure of how much of that the engine turns into useful work. If burning a gallon of gas gives you X Joules of useful work, while fusing gives you X+1 that doesn't mean the fusion engine is more efficient, it means it is a better energy extraction mechanism in terms of total energy. But if all it can muster is 1 Joule improvement then it'll be wasting VAST amounts of energy as heat or radiation. That's less efficient.

Newton, considered by many to be at the very least in the top3 scientists ever believed in Bible codes and alchemy. Doesn't mean I do. Josephson, who won a Nobel Prize for his PhD thesis, believes stuff about our minds creating the universe (quantum mechanics and conciousness and all that), doesn't mean I do.

The fact a great many people, with access to a lot of nifty bits of lab equipment, haven't reproduced this Dr. Puharich's work in the suppsed 40 years since he came up with it (and if its patented, it must be explained in detail, enough to replicate) instantly makes me question his claims. I'm not an experimentalist but I'm no slouch when it comes to physics and I happen to work in a physics department with lots of the aforementioned bits of nifty lab equipment, all of them manned by people who tinker with nanomaterials, liquid crystals, Josephson bridges (of the Nobel Prize winning thesis) and everything inbetween. And given there's no massive global conspiracy about keeping the secrets of the universe from the great unwashed and dithering masses (because if there is, where's my damn kick back!), I'm led to the conclusion that people like Dr. Puharich prey on the just mentioned unwashed, dithering masses, who all in all are almost scientifically illiterate, as this thread has demonstrated. As such, he's finding the gullible idiots out there (and there's plenty) and conning them. After all, you can fool some of the people all of the time. Unfortunately, you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Some of us have actually gotten past 7th grade.

The fact a great many people, with access to a lot of nifty bits of lab equipment, haven't reproduced this Dr. Puharich's work in the suppsed 40 years since he came up with it (and if its patented, it must be explained in detail, enough to replicate)


Actually you are wrong. Read and understand the Puharich patent. Then read and understand the Meyer patents.

I am not sure how it could have been replicated and demonstrated any more than it was.

Given the fact that in order to obtain a patent on a so called free energy device it must be demonstrated to the patent office, I think we can safely assume Meyer did as he claimed.

Now if you look a little beyond the patents themselves, you will see that both Meyer and Puharich used the same base technology which is superheterodyne.

Given the fact that we are NOT TALKING ABOUT A CLOSED SYSTEM and comparing one level of efficiency as compared to the other, if would be impossible to use your definition.

I am an experimentalist and so I do not claim patents don't exist when they do, replications have not taken place when they have or thermodynamics and the terms and equations that go with a closed system apply when they don't.

And lastly, one of your quotes comes to mind:

Mind you, this is a pretty complicated topic. That's why here in the UK they don't teach the concept of energy efficiency till you reach the heady heights of 7th grade.

Perhaps you un the UK should add research skills to your grade school lessen plan.

EDIT -

If car A gets 10mpg and car B gets 40 mpg, car B is 400% more efficient. Since second law does not apply to an open system with an external fuel source, your definition or use of efficiency is incorrect and out of place. I really can't make it any more simple that that.

Physics does not own the word efficient. It is used differently in different places and the term was used in a context where the term was appropriate. You usage is not.

[AlphaNumeric]

I am not sure how it could have been replicated and demonstrated any more than it was.

Given the fact that in order to obtain a patent on a so called free energy device it must be demonstrated to the patent office, I think we can safely assume Meyer did as he claimed.
No, that rule is a fairly recent addition in order to prevent the almost constant stream of "I've got a machine which violates the laws of nature" patent claims. And even then there are cases which have slipped through the cracks.

The patent office requires a machine to have been running continuously, without external connections (ie not plugged in) for a year.
Given the fact that we are NOT TALKING ABOUT A CLOSED SYSTEM and comparing one level of efficiency as compared to the other, if would be impossible to use your definition.
How precisely is this not a closed system? And its always possible to use the definitions of efficiency I've used.

Suppose you have your free energy machine in a box and its got a plug you plug a 100W light bulb into. You turn on the machine and the light bulb and let it run. After a while you notice that the box the machine is in is warming up slightly. Why? Because its not 100% efficicient. Some of the energy its getting from whatever its power source is is not being turned into electricity, the useful energy. Suppose you measure the amount of thermal energy the box is giving off (IR camera or something) and you find its 100W (humans give between 50 and 100W off in thermal energy so it doesn't need to warm up much). Therefore for every 100W of electricity it makes, it makes 100W of heat. Wasted heat. Therefore its 50% efficient.

I have not had to know the energy source, the energy conversion methods or the total available energy for that, I just have to know the amount of waste energy and the amount of useful energy. The definitions of efficiency still apply.

I get the distinct impression you aren't even trying to apply these definitions of efficiency because you don't want to accept that these so called free energy machiens are not super efficient.
I am an experimentalist
Now when I call myself a physicist, I do so because I engage in methodical research, I have qualifications to back up my claims of knowledge, I'm employed by a university and I have published work coming from my research. When you call yourself an experimentalist, I get the feeling you're not using it in the same capacity I might to describe people down the corridor from me. Are you employed by a research lab? Are you publishing work? If so, what and where and when? Or are you a guy messing around with a blow torch in his garage?
Perhaps you un the UK should add research skills to your grade school lessen plan.
Something tells me I've got more research to my name than you have to yours.
If car A gets 10mpg and car B gets 40 mpg, car B is 400% more efficient. Since second law does not apply to an open system with an external fuel source, your definition or use of efficiency is incorrect and out of place. I really can't make it any more simple that that.It still applies. You're basically saying I cannot measure things like 'useful energy' and 'wasted energy' in a system. I don't know how efficienct the generator making the electricity which comes to my house is, but I can still tell the efficiency of my kettle by the amount of the electric power it consumes which ends up as heat in water.

The fact you are unable to apply the definitions due to ignorance or apathy doesn't mean other people have your short comings.

[leopold99]

If car A gets 10mpg and car B gets 40 mpg, car B is 400% more efficient.
yes, you can say car B is 400% more efficient than car A.
Since second law does not apply to an open system with an external fuel source, your definition or use of efficiency is incorrect and out of place. I really can't make it any more simple that that.
okay, but i don't see how my use of the word efficiency is out of place.
we can haggle words all day, the fact of the matter is that no process generates more energy than what is used to generate that energy.
conservation of energy i believe its called.

[ElvisLive]

AlphaNumeric,

Get over yourself and enough with the pie in the sky examples. Go back to page 7 or so where I made my first post. Start there at the beginning and see what is being discussed, it is the ultrasonic water heater.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=06iCfowinUM

The electric energy going in is one energy source - a 9 volt battery. The water that is cavitating and undergoing sonofusion is converting mass (water) into the atomic energy contained within the mass.

Now how can you suggest that the water being used as a fuel source combined with a battery constitute a closed system? That would be impossible.

Now that we do not have a closed system, i.e., it consumes batteries and water, second law does not apply.

And since second law does not apply, it is not 100% efficient nor is it a free energy machine. However, it is many times more efficient than any conventional method of heating water due to the fusion aspect of the cavitation.

BTW - Thomas Edison was self trained, Tesla was a psychic and Russell was hit by lightning and became one too. They all contributed a great deal to science. I don't recall them waving their diplomas and patents in the air to prove they were smart. The work spoke for them.

As you claim to be British, here is an extract from Admiral Sir Anthony Griffin regarding Stan Meyer and his water car.

http://www.theorionproject.org/en/documents/Griffin.pdf

There is much more information available but I have better things to do than research for you in an effort to cure your magical thinking of disbelief. It has been my experience that you can't fix that. If you want to publicly call him he and I liars, feel free to post your personal contact information with your insults. The internet is forever.

[Read-Only]

The fact you are unable to apply the definitions due to ignorance or apathy doesn't mean other people have your short comings.

AlphaNumeric, it's become clear to me that we're dealing with someone that isn't nearly as educated/smart as he thinks he is. Once he succeeded in deluding himself into believing he could make up his own half-baked definition of efficiency - AND also simply compare energy output from a nuclear reaction to that of an ordinary chemical reaction and claim it was MORE efficient! - I've broken off all contact with him.

I'm more than satisfied to just write him off as a complete loss since we can't seem to get him to understand anything. Might as well let him stew in his own ignorant juices since he appears to not care for the truth.

[ElvisLive]

AlphaNumeric, it's become clear to me that we're dealing with someone that isn't nearly as educated/smart as he thinks he is. Once he succeeded in deluding himself into believing he could make up his own half-baked definition of efficiency - AND also simply compare energy output from a nuclear reaction to that of an ordinary chemical reaction and claim it was MORE efficient! - I've broken off all contact with him.

I'm more than satisfied to just write him off as a complete loss since we can't seem to get him to understand anything. Might as well let him stew in his own ignorant juices since he appears to not care for the truth.

I really wish you would live into that read-only, you keep claiming you will over and over. What's wrong, afraid if he actually figures out what is being discussed he will have to agree?

You are the guy that said electrons have nothing to do with cavitation.


You were the guy that didn't know about sonofusion. In fact, you were the guy that claimed the only way to have 100% efficient was though fusion but we were not there yet.


You were the guy that cited second law on an open system with an external fuel source.


I don't know who you are and don't care. What I do know is that you are not what you intimate. You are someone that has made 6000 posts to this web site and doesn't seem to have any integrity or much knowledge of science.

What you do seem to have is a specialty in slamming anyone that threatens the status quo of big oil and central banks using all the tricks that are used to do that.

[AlphaNumeric]

Get over yourself and enough with the pie in the sky examples.How is giving an explicit explaination of how the word 'efficiency' still applies to the cases you claim it doesn't 'pie in the sky'?

As for getting over myself, its my experience that the people who say that to me are generally guilty of precisely the thing they accuse me of. As I commented, I've got plenty of legitimate reasons to call myself a physicist. I asked you what makes you think you're an experimentalist. Funny how you didn't answer. Are you having trouble admiting you're unable to justify your claims/views about yourself?

I am confident in what I know, because I've put a lot of effort into knowing it. I rarely try to project the image that I know more than I actually do, I have no need to and I see little reason to. Cranks view the fact I know a fair bit as me believing myself all knowing. No, it just appears that way compared to how little you know. ;) I'll readily admit the limits of my knowledge in various areas, it just happens that because cranks are so ignorant, my limits are almost invariably way beyond theirs. To a crank, there's little difference between 'knowledgable' and 'all knowing', relative to their knowledge.

So I'll ask again, what makes you call yourself an experimentalist. What work have you published and where?
The electric energy going in is one energy source - a 9 volt battery. The water that is cavitating and undergoing sonofusion is converting mass (water) into the atomic energy contained within the mass.

Now how can you suggest that the water being used as a fuel source combined with a battery constitute a closed system? That would be impossible.So you're telling me a battery and a bucket of water isn't a closed system? Suppose I put your machine in a box and wired it so that the energy from the fusion is converted into electricity by some little steam turbine thing (or whatever you wish to use). This is, in effect, an electric generator. It requires a fuel, because the water is not an unlimited energy source, so just like you put petrol in a petrol generator every now and again, you have to put water into this device (the battery can be recharged via the generator, like a car battery is from the petrol). Now suppose I plug in something to this generator, doesn't matter what, a kettle, a TV, a talking Santa doll. Or better yet, a power meter which reads the voltage and current coming from the generator (and thus the power output in the electric current). Same as my last post, if I measure the electric output to be X and yet the heat output from the generator is Y then (ignoring other waste energies like sound) the efficiency ratio of the generator is X/(X+Y) (times 100 if you want percent).

The generator's efficiency can be measured, because we can measure its electrical output and its total energy output. That's ALL you need. For it to be impossible to measure somethings efficiency, you basically have to be unable to measure the work it does.
Now that we do not have a closed system, i.e., it consumes batteries and water, second law does not apply.It applies whenever you aren't replenishing the water and battery. Suppose I put in a battery and a fresh tank of water into this generator. It has some kind of entropy level. I turn it on for a while, it does something like power a kettle, a car, that Santa doll. Then I measure the entropy again, it will have increased. The energy which was in the nice form of the water particles is turned into random thermal energy by the generator (which will produce heat) and the device plugged into it.

Anything which uses fuel, cars, kettles, people, can be considered a closed system, along with some quantity of fuel. The car runs, the kettle boils, we live and at the end of it you still have the 'machine' but your low entropy fuel is now high entropy thermal energy. The second law is demonstrated.
BTW - Thomas Edison was self trained, Tesla was a psychic and Russell was hit by lightning and became one too. They all contributed a great deal to science. I don't recall them waving their diplomas and patents in the air to prove they were smart. The work spoke for them.And the fact you couldn't tell me your work shows you have no work to speak for you. And Tesla a psychic? This another one of your unsuppported claims? And I never said its impossible to contribute to science without having a degree. However, I struggle to think of a contributor to the formal theories of physics in the last century who didn't. And amateur experimentalists are contributing less and less as time passes because while in Faraday's day you could probe the limits of physics with stuff lying around, now you need a lab, particular equipment and a lot of time.

So, again, where's your methodical work which speaks for itself?
As you claim to be British, here is an extract from Admiral Sir Anthony Griffin regarding Stan Meyer and his water car.
Why would my nationality have any relevence to whether or not I thought Anthony Griffin's comments about a water car were worth listening to? Besides, he is not a scientist and as such has little in the way of valid scientific evaluation. As his little CV at the end of that pdf says, he spent his career over seeing the construction of war vessels, he wasn't the guy doing the R&D for new engines or new means of energy generation, was he? And he certainly wouldn't be the first person to rubber stamp a slightly hair brained idea which would never get off the drawing board due to being fundamentally flawed. The pdf mentions ZPE, a quantum field theory concept I am familiar with, since that's what my research is in, quantum field theory. So unlike the majority of people reading that pdf, I don't get bamboozled by terminology and buzz words.
There is much more information available but I have better things to do than research for you in an effort to cure your magical thinking of disbelief. It has been my experience that you can't fix that.
In the past I've looked at Youtube videos of all these water cars. All of them specifically avoid talking about the details of the science and none of them are reproduced by independent labs. Part of the scientific method is to document your methods carefully so that if you see any new phenomena it will be reproducable, not only by yourself but by others. Without this ability to reproduce results, they are called into question. In 40 years, water cars have gotten nowhere. And with the amount of funding being poured into alternative energies ever increasing as the Western World realises oil is running out, why has the technology behind the water car become mainstream?

There's two possible answers. A massive conspiracy across the globe, crossing national borders, ideologies and funding methods. Or its a load of crap. What a tough one.
If you want to publicly call him he and I liars, feel free to post your personal contact information with your insults. The internet is forever.
If you can link me to an independent, reputable lab, such as one run by a major university or a well known R&D company (such things as Lockheed Martin perhaps?) which reproduces the results you claim, showing a car running on nothing but a small battery (which is not the underlying power source) and a container of water undergoing fusion, I will happily put my hands up and say "I was wrong, this technology is viable". Until then what evidence do I have apart from people who can't answer direct questions about their work and the science?

Besides, I'm hardly a lone voice, am I? Ask 99.9999% of physicists the viability of things like using ZPE to power a car or over unity efficiency and they'll say its either impossible or utterly beyond current technology. If you claim to have a working machine, they'll ask for proof, as I have. I have yet to see any. So in effect, has not the fact you've gotten nowhere in 40 years already proven my claim for me? You've supposedly had a working device for 4 decades but the inventor is still completely unknown, noone has replicated the technology and all during an ever increasing energy crisis where the next big energy technology will make billions, if not trillions?

You provide me with your published works and independent verification of this water engine by a reputable lab and I'll have no problem apologising and saying I'm wrong. It's just that the weight of evidence is against you and like a good light scientist I don't change my views without evidence.

[ElvisLive]

You are the one that made the claims regarding your qualifications. My only claim was that I experiment. I would add to that that I work at it roughly 12 hours a day usually 7 days a week and have been working on the same project for nearly two years. What I am working on etc. is none of your business but loosely related to the subject.

Suppose we don't make analogies and just take the device being discussed as it is. It is more efficient than conventional methods of heating water - That is what I am stating. I am not going to let you put words in my mouth, reframe the argument, use analogies, etc. The ultrasonic method being considered is many times more efficient. PERIOD!

Wiki - The second law of thermodynamics is an expression of the universal law of increasing entropy, stating that the entropy of an isolated system which is not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium.

I have no problem with that statement. Fully in agreement.

The cavitation heater is not in a box with a cat in a closet with an imaginary steam generator attached to it. It is what it is and it is not an isolated system. It is fed externally with electricity and water.

It is 100's of percent more efficient than gas or electric heating. PERIOD!

PS - I didn't write the Griffin piece, it was Griffins words I assume and I don't care if you believe in water cars the Easter bunny or anything else.

Herman P Anderson also invented water fuel. He was a physicist and inventor and also consulted with NASA and the US Airforce on some of our country's most important Top-Secret projects. Herman worked closely with Dr. Wernher von Braun testing hydrogen powered rocket engines, and he also worked with engineers at the Skunk Works and JPL. His car was licensed with the state of Tennessee and is located at the water fuel museum.

Now I could believe some anonymous person on the web and think... gee...
Dr. Puharich, Stan Meyer (who's who inventor of the year two years in a row, a man with over 50 patents, a man that invented card lock banking, sonar devices, etc. ) Herman Anderson a slew of others all pretended they broke Faraday's law.

- or -

Or I could trust my own eyes and the years I have researching this and other subjects relating to unconventional energy conversion. I took a vote on my end, and you lost.

PS - Stan Meyer dropped out of high school to go to work for Battelle Labs when he was 17. But he was an American high school drop out.

I am done discussing this since you people clearly have an agenda other than the search for the truth and that is what science is.

[AlphaNumeric]

You are the one that made the claims regarding your qualifications.And anyone who is a regular in the science forum knows that I am not lying.

My only claim was that I experiment. I would add to that that I work at it roughly 12 hours a day usually 7 days a week and have been working on the same project for nearly two years. What I am working on etc. is none of your business but loosely related to the subject.so nothing to show for your work and unable to point at publications/results. Just checking.

It is more efficient than conventional methods of heating water - That is what I am stating. I am not going to let you put words in my mouth, reframe the argument, use analogies, etc. The ultrasonic method being considered is many times more efficient. PERIOD!.No, it's not. If fusing water releases X Joules and only Y<X goes into heating water, then its X/Y efficient. Immersion heaters are near 100% efficient when you calculate the fraction of the electric energy pumped into them which ends up as heat in water.

Using water as a fusion fuel isn't more efficient, it's more concentrated and there's a lot more of it.

The cavitation heater is not in a box with a cat in a closet with an imaginary steam generator attached to it. It is what it is and it is not an isolated system. It is fed externally with electricity and water.So you consider the entropy of the water which is to be fed into it and the entropy of the system generating the electricity. Or you give some measure of entropy to electrical energy. A kettle turns the low entropy energy of electricity into the high entropy energy of thermal energy. Sure, it's not a closed system but if you consider the entropy of the energy before its gone into the kettle and after its come out, it's clearly increased.

You seem to have a somewhat myopic view of things, having trouble understanding anything outside the definition you read on Wikipedia. Take a course in statistical mechanics.

It is 100's of percent more efficient than gas or electric heating. PERIOD!
If burning some quantity of gas releases 100J of energy and 98 of them end up in the water, said gas boiler would be 98% efficient. You cannot be 100% more efficient than that. You can extra more energy from say the methane if you had some machine which could fuse the carbon and hydrogen into oxygen, but its efficiency would then be measured by the amount of released fusion heat gets into the water. Its efficiency would not be the measure of how many times more energy you get by fusing a methane molecule than burning it. That's not efficiency, it's a measure of fuel energy density. Chemical combustion cannot release the same energy as nuclear fusion so you cannot measure their efficiencies as heating methods by the same yard stick of energy output. You are simply making up your own definitions and trying to deceive people.


PS - I didn't write the Griffin piece, it was Griffins words I assume and I don't care if you believe in water cars the Easter bunny or anything else.

Herman P Anderson also invented water fuel. He was a physicist and inventor and also consulted with NASA and the US Airforce on some of our country's most important Top-Secret projects. Herman worked closely with Dr. Wernher von Braun testing hydrogen powered rocket engines, and he also worked with engineers at the Skunk Works and JPL. His car was licensed with the state of Tennessee and is located at the water fuel museum.

Now I could believe some anonymous person on the web and think... gee...
Dr. Puharich, Stan Meyer (who's who inventor of the year two years in a row, a man with over 50 patents, a man that invented card lock banking, sonar devices, etc. ) Herman Anderson a slew of others all pretended they broke Faraday's law.
So you cannot provide me with any external lab verification for any of your claims? Not one independent source which can replicate any of these myriad of decades old patents which you claim work but which are nowhere to be seen.

Tell me, if the technology is so easily reachable even in the 70s and if these people are employed by government agencies, why isn't the technology out there? Why aren't tanks in Iraq fuelled on water, rather than burning through 3 gallons of petrol a mile? While are aviation companies collapsing left, right and centre because of kerosene prices? Why is the US terrified about energy independence and the fact every year it pumps trillions of dollars into the pockets of OPEC members, who are some of the most extreme muslim regimes in the world and some of which openly fund terrorism? If the US has this technology and it isn't being surpressed, why isn't it being used? Why didn't the 6 Day War spike in oil prices roll out this technology? Why didn't $4 gas make it mainstream? Why is it nowhere to be seen?

Because it doesn't exist.

And I do not attempt to keep myself anonymous. But its my general experience that the people who demand I say who I am are the people I'd least like to involve in my actual day to day life. My views are my own and I make no pretence about speaking for any institution I am or have been affiliated with in any official capacity whatsoever.

I asked you to provide independent verification of your claims. You couldn't. Given anyone interested in "the search for the truth and that is what science is. " should ask for evidence, the fact you cannot prove me with any shows that you have none. It's the first question you are asked by journals or scientists, to provide a backup for your claims, with the more fantastic a claim requiring more evidence. You claim to have a solution to the energy crisis which either currently or will very soon grip mankind (cheap, clean, unlimited energy is the answer to global warming, energy security, pollution and recycling) and yet you can't offer anything to support that but "But he's a well known inventor" and "He's a member of the Navy". So if the inventor is so well known, why hasn't his invention of possibly the greatest thing ever hit every major news paper? When someone lied about cold fusion in the 80s it was everywhere. For about a month. Yet the people you talk about arent in the papers.

You accuse me of not engaging in "the search for the truth and that is what science is" because I don't blindly believe you and I ask you for evidence. Somewhat hypocritical I'd say.

[ElvisLive]

Tell me, if the technology is so easily reachable even in the 70s and if these people are employed by government agencies, why isn't the technology out there? Why aren't tanks in Iraq fuelled on water, rather than burning through 3 gallons of petrol a mile? While are aviation companies collapsing left, right and centre because of kerosene prices? Why is the US terrified about energy independence and the fact every year it pumps trillions of dollars into the pockets of OPEC members, who are some of the most extreme muslim regimes in the world and some of which openly fund terrorism? If the US has this technology and it isn't being surpressed, why isn't it being used? Why didn't the 6 Day War spike in oil prices roll out this technology? Why didn't $4 gas make it mainstream? Why is it nowhere to be seen?

I just couldn't let that go. The Jews run the oil and money rackets on the Earth. The Saudi Royal family which controls OPEC are actually Jewish and their treck through history is well documented.

The Israeli Mossad does false flag terror attacks across this globe to start wars blaming others. Israel has two oil pipelines pumping muslim oil to Israel since the Iraq wars which has do to do with the "spike in oil prices" since they also control the stock markets and central banks as well.

Here in the US, 100% of my tax dollars go to the central bankers to pay a debt on money they did not loan but rather printed out of thin air.

One of the objects of the Project for a New American Century conspiracy was a means of funding Israel that did not depend of the US. That along with their illegal nuclear weapons makes them a regional super power.

There is so much oil on the market right now, they are finding it difficult to find places to store it. Now is the price of fuel low?

Suppression? Puharich was found dead at the bottom of the stairs a few years ago. During lunch with NATO officials (and a couple of unnamed middle eastern men) Meyer proclaimed he had been poisoned and died in the parking lot on his way to the hospital.

The thermodynamics BS is not designed to help scientist talk to each other, it is designed to to keep scientists from talking about economic free energy devices such as water fuel.

The biggest conspiracy ever conceived is that their are no government conspiracies and their are no more enslaved people than those that do not even know they are.

[synthesizer-patel]

Wait!

Do I hear Banjos?

http://butlersheetmetal.com/tinbasherblog/images/deliverance_dueling_banjos.jpg

[AlphaNumeric]

I just couldn't let that go. The Jews run the oil and money rackets on the Earth. The Saudi Royal family which controls OPEC are actually Jewish and their treck through history is well documented.Initially I thought you were just a dumb person who didn't understand physics and didn't want to open a book. Now I know you're a delusional wacko.

The thermodynamics BS is not designed to help scientist talk to each other, it is designed to to keep scientists from talking about economic free energy devices such as water fuel.Considering I'm a scientist and I've talked to other scientists about statistical mechanics, I can categorically say it does help us talk to one another and describe a great many things. My particular area when it comes to entropy is black hole entropy and its relation to field theory. Notions like the laws of thermodynamics, canonical ensembles, partition functions, Boltzman distributions, Gibbs free energy etc have been applied to a great many things involving solid state mechanics. Those concepts also permeat through to other areas of physics. Partition functions are used in quantum mechanics for instance. There's libraries full of information on all these concepts, experiments validating them, testing them, developing them, interlinking them. And a great deal online. But given you've obviously lacking a firm enough grasp on reality to understand those things, I'm sure you're unaware of them. But the fact you don't grasp them doesn't mean it's a conspiracy.

But hey, I'm attached to a university, perhaps I'm 'one of them' and my posts here are an attempt to prevent you telling the world about 'the truth'? Maybe I'm a government agent, in league with the aliens who gave The Illuminati the technology used in 'water fuel' but don't want the general public to know about it?

Or maybe you're just a dithering idiot.

[MacGyver1968]

I just couldn't let that go. The Jews run the oil and money rackets on the Earth. The Saudi Royal family which controls OPEC are actually Jewish and their treck through history is well documented.

The Israeli Mossad does false flag terror attacks across this globe to start wars blaming others. Israel has two oil pipelines pumping muslim oil to Israel since the Iraq wars which has do to do with the "spike in oil prices" since they also control the stock markets and central banks as well.

Here in the US, 100% of my tax dollars go to the central bankers to pay a debt on money they did not loan but rather printed out of thin air.

One of the objects of the Project for a New American Century conspiracy was a means of funding Israel that did not depend of the US. That along with their illegal nuclear weapons makes them a regional super power.

There is so much oil on the market right now, they are finding it difficult to find places to store it. Now is the price of fuel low?

Suppression? Puharich was found dead at the bottom of the stairs a few years ago. During lunch with NATO officials (and a couple of unnamed middle eastern men) Meyer proclaimed he had been poisoned and died in the parking lot on his way to the hospital.

The thermodynamics BS is not designed to help scientist talk to each other, it is designed to to keep scientists from talking about economic free energy devices such as water fuel.

The biggest conspiracy ever conceived is that their are no government conspiracies and their are no more enslaved people than those that do not even know they are.

And the "Woo of the Week Award" goes to.....(opens envelope) Elvis! Please come accept your gold plated aluminum foil hat.

The Saudi Royal family which controls OPEC are actually Jewish and their treck through history is well documented.


The Saudi Royal Family is Jewish? Sweet. Thats some first class, grade a woo right there. I guess the Muslim world is going to be PISSED when they find out.

The Israeli Mossad does false flag terror attacks across this globe to start wars blaming others.

I guess the Mossad were behind 9/11 too?

Israel has two oil pipelines pumping muslim oil to Israel since the Iraq wars

I wonder how they build that with no one noticing?..and where is all that oil going? Haven't seen too many oil tankers pulling in to Jerusalem.

which has do to do with the "spike in oil prices" since they also control the stock markets and central banks as well.

I'm sure the spike in oil prices had nothing to do with zealously greedy investors over speculating the oil futures market. Yeah right.

If Jews control the stock market and the banks, wonder why they sold themselves all those re-packaged subprime morgages, sold as investment grade securities? Boy they really screwed the pooch on that one...All of those banks closing....lots of good Jews lost their jobs. :p

[Read-Only]

And the "Woo of the Week Award" goes to.....(opens envelope) Elvis! Please come accept your gold plated aluminum foil hat.


HA!!!:D

Good show, Mac.;) Not only has the dummy shown that he knows little about real science, he's now proven that he's a certified FRUITCAKE also!!!!!! (Heh-heh!)

As I heard on a cartoon show long ago, "What a maroon!":D

[ElvisLive]

And the "Woo of the Week Award" goes to.....(opens envelope) Elvis! Please come accept your gold plated aluminum foil hat.

The Saudi Royal Family is Jewish? Sweet. Thats some first class, grade a woo right there. I guess the Muslim world is going to be PISSED when they find out.


Hey Mac, your ass called and it wants your head back!

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Saudi-royal-family


I guess the Mossad were behind 9/11 too?


http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/fiveisraelis.html

The Jews were warned though Odigo to quietly evacuate prior and I could paste information all day about that one. Here is another - "The information related to israel and 911 is classified and I can not disclose it. - Carl Camron Fox News"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8XBxw7k8rk

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/september-eleven/israelis-arrested-9-11.htm

But hey, don't take my word for it, listen to the cops on 911.
Mossad Truck Bombs on Sept 11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aKj6uJ5Mt4


I wonder how they build that with no one noticing?..and where is all that oil going? Haven't seen too many oil tankers pulling in to Jerusalem.


Pretty sure most of the world noticed the two large pipelines that terminate in Israel. Maybe you are just unconscious? BTW - Jerusalem is not on the coast.

The Rothchild pipeline was seen to be activated before the troops hit Baghdad on weather infra red birds. Notice how US troops are stationed along that pipeline? Ask one what they did in Iraq and they will tell you "we guarded a pipeline."

http://www.sandersresearch.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1118

http://www.oilandgaseurasia.com/articles/p/82/article/714/

http://www.hurriyet.com.tr/english/finance/9460948.asp?scr=1


I'm sure the spike in oil prices had nothing to do with zealously greedy investors over speculating the oil futures market. Yeah right.


Actually it did. Those speculators and the companies they control don't exactly have Irish last names.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=9042

"As I noted in my earlier article, (‘Perhaps 60% of today’s oil price is pure speculation’), ICE was focus of a recent congressional investigation. It was named both in the Senate's Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations' June 27, 2006, Staff Report and in the House Committee on Energy & Commerce's hearing in December 2007 which looked into unregulated trading in energy futures. Both studies concluded that energy prices' climb to $128 and perhaps beyond is driven by billions of dollars' worth of oil and natural gas futures contracts being placed on the ICE. Through a convenient regulation exception granted by the Bush Administration in January 2006, the ICE Futures trading of US energy futures is not regulated by the Commodities Futures Trading Commission, even though the ICE Futures US oil contracts are traded in ICE affiliates in the USA. And at Enron’s request, the CFTC exempted the Over-the-Counter oil futures trades in 2000."


If Jews control the stock market and the banks, wonder why they sold themselves all those re-packaged subprime morgages, sold as investment grade securities? Boy they really screwed the pooch on that one...All of those banks closing....lots of good Jews lost their jobs. :p

Lost their jobs? We lost out jobs, they are in the process of stuffing trillions of our tax dollars in their pockets. Here is the current headline from Drudge right now.

"SENATE MOVES TO GIVE FDIC $500B LOAN"
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123630125365247061.html

Can you guess what Sheila Bain - Head of FDIC and the board of directors all have in common?

Man you suck at flaming. Every single point you tried to make was untrue. and fully rebuffed.

Do you do counterintel for a job or is that just how you are?

[ElvisLive]

So you consider the entropy of the water which is to be fed into it and the entropy of the system generating the electricity. Or you give some measure of entropy to electrical energy. A kettle turns the low entropy energy of electricity into the high entropy energy of thermal energy. Sure, it's not a closed system but if you consider the entropy of the energy before its gone into the kettle and after its come out, it's clearly increased.

You seem to have a somewhat myopic view of things, having trouble understanding anything outside the definition you read on Wikipedia. Take a course in statistical mechanics.



Sooooo... A kettle on the stove powered by electricity from an external source is an "open system" but a kettle sitting on a table being powered by electricity is a closed system.

A partially open system is a little like being partially pregnant which is what your analysis is of the device being discussed.

Second law does not apply and entropy is irrelevant which is where my argument began and now ends.

Keep taking those classes, I'm sure it will pay off someday.

I don't know anything about lizard people or shifting shape people but maybe you need to see someone about that.

Maybe you could tell a cop he is one of those lizard people and then he can give you a ride in his car to some place that can help you. Be sure and yell it good and loud in his face. Cops do not listen very well, like you.

[ElvisLive]

AlphaNumeric - You lost the argument when you argued that entropy was what determined if second law applies. What determines if second law applies is where it is an open or closed system and there is no in between open and closed.

No amount of trying to create hypothetical additions to the device being discussed will change the device or the second law in reality. It will however produce a lot of entropy in a thread.

Given the fact that it is open system, then the efficiency label you wrongly apply does not fit. However the definition that I and others perhaps put forth that compared one method or apparatus to another is correct.

I don't expect you to have the integrity to admit you were wrong.

[AlphaNumeric]

Sooooo... A kettle on the stove powered by electricity from an external source is an "open system" but a kettle sitting on a table being powered by electricity is a closed system..Clearly you are not well versed in statistical mechanics, because you have trouble going beyond what I have explicitly said to understand what I am saying.

The kettle is not a closed system, since its fed power. But if we include the electricity its fed into our consideration, then we have a closed system. The entropy of the electricity and kettle increases because it becomes thermal heat and a kettle. Savvy?
Keep taking those classes, I'm sure it will pay off someday.Already has thanks. I'm a published physicist. Remember you saying something about letting ones work speak for itself? Well I've got such work and you haven't. ;)
I don't know anything about lizard people or shifting shape people but maybe you need to see someone about that.

Maybe you could tell a cop he is one of those lizard people and then he can give you a ride in his car to some place that can help you. Be sure and yell it good and loud in his face. Cops do not listen very well, like you.I'll add sarcasm to the list of things you don't understand.
AlphaNumeric - You lost the argument when you argued that entropy was what determined if second law applies. What determines if second law applies is where it is an open or closed system and there is no in between open and closed.Where did I say that? Besides, I repeatedly explained how the examples you give of systems where entropy, efficiency and thermodynamics doesn't apply actually DO have thermodynamics applied to them. You never retorted that.

And how can I have lost the argument when you cannot retort any of my criticisms about there being no evidence, no independent verification and no development of these free energy systems, despite being 40 years old? The grander the claim, the more important evidence is and you make some very grand claims and offer no evidence at all. Instead you fall back on the utterly delusional claim that there's some kind of conspiracy which involves the Saudi royal family, one of the strictest muslim groups in the world, actually being Jewish. That's another very grand claim you offer zero evidence for.

Science has the really weird thing of requiring evidence. It's a concept you seem completely unfamiliar with and yet you complain I'm the one not interested in true science. What you actually mean is I'm the one who doesn't blindly follow grand claims from people with no evidence.
I don't expect you to have the integrity to admit you were wrong. So there's still no evidence for any of your claims about this technology, no independent verification, no demonstrations to third parties of a machine running for a year without needing a fuel, nothing at all which backs you up?

See, even if I were wrong about closed/open systems, its all irrelevent to the fact you cannot provide evidence the technology you claim exists exists. So your basic argument falls apart.

And you obviously don't have the integrity to admit you can't provide any of the evidence I've asked for.

[ElvisLive]

See, even if I were wrong about closed/open systems, its all irrelevent to the fact you cannot provide evidence the technology you claim exists exists. So your basic argument falls apart.


Wrong again. Your misapplication of second law would relegate all systems to closed and would destroy the definition of the second law. You don't get to do that without a little peer review - good luck that one.

I didn't claim to to have replicated the ultrasonic water heater, I gave a plausible explanation of how it worked and why second law did not apply to the misplaced definition of efficiency. That is my basic argument and what this argument is all about..

Do a triple back flip! The fact that you have not probably not proven you have done a triple flip off a diving board does not negate the sport of diving or redefine thermodynamics.

If you wanted to educate yourself on the subject, the inventor will talk to you on the phone for 30 minutes for $200 dollars. Or, you can cling to your wilful ignorance and continue to express the magical thoughts of belief of disbelief. All that will get you into is in "hot water".

EDIT - BTW, if want to to publicly dismiss the term sonofusion, I would suggest you write a paper on that and publish it with proof.

[tablariddim]

simple answer...NO

[leopold99]

why not argue about something else? fly lips for example.

[AlphaNumeric]

Wrong again. Your misapplication of second law would relegate all systems to closed and would destroy the definition of the second law. You don't get to do that without a little peer review - good luck that one.No, what I said did not 'destroy the definition of the second law' at all. Unfortunately your familiar with it is so poor that you failed to understand what I'm saying.

An example would be the Planet Earth. It is not a closed system because it receives a lot of energy, with low entropy, from the Sun and emits a lot of high entropy energy. Now you cannot call the planet closed, but you can consider a closed system if you include the energy (in the form of photons) absorbed and emitted by the Earth too. Then you have a quantity which has constant quantities like energy, which you do need for a closed system.

Just as a kettle turns a quantity of low entropy electric energy into a quantity of high entropy thermal energy, the Earth turns the low entropy photons from the Sun into high entropy thermal radiation photons. Humans and other life on Earth use this low entropy energy to build complex molecules up from simpler ones (like plants photosynthesising). The second law applies when you include the energy/material which flows through the Earth in some given unit of time. My kettle example was precisely the same on a smaller scale.

Similarly, when you consider the entropy of a vehicle and a container of water
you can measure the entropy change after you've fused that water. It's a closed system. The fuel starts with lots of energy and low entropy and ends with less energy and high entropy. The second law has been obeyed.

In the Sun, where vast quantities of hydrogen are fused into various light elements (depending on the particular cycle you pick) the individual protons are low entropy while things like lithium, helium, carbon and oxygen are higher in entropy and lower in energy.

If you have a system which is decreasing in entropy, like the Earth does, then it doesn't mean you have broken the second law, it means that you are ignoring some other object which is providing a low entropy input by which the first object is lowering its entropy. When you include that in your consideration (ie include the Sun in your consideration of the Earth) you find the second law applies.

A car fueled by water, with a tank of water strapped to it, is a closed system. If you claim it isn't, why is a car with a tank of petrol strapped to it closed?

I didn't claim to to have replicated the ultrasonic water heater, I gave a plausible explanation of how it worked and why second law did not apply to the misplaced definition of efficiency. That is my basic argument and what this argument is all about..And, as I've explained with examples multiple times, your explanation is neither plausible or right. I've explained how the definition of 'efficiency' can be applied each and every time.

You don't get to do that without a little peer review - good luck that one.
Ah yes, that peer review I've already had on my published work and which you have not given you've got nothing to show for all those many hours and years you've spent on these things?

f you wanted to educate yourself on the subject, the inventor will talk to you on the phone for 30 minutes for $200 dollars.
Ah, you got burned by paying through the nose to talk to someone lying about their work and now you want to try to convince yourself you weren't a sucker.

Or, you can cling to your wilful ignorance and continue to express the magical thoughts of belief of disbelief. All that will get you into is in "hot water".So the fact I've said I'll happily admit I'm wrong if you can provide some evidence, some independent verification, an explicit demonstration of this technology backed up by a reputable third party, yet you offer NOTHING means I'm engaging in wilful ignorance? You, a loud mouth proponent of this stuff, can't provide evidence its valid when asked just shows there is no evidence. You've supposedly known about this for years, if not decades, and in all that time you've not come across one bit of evidence which would be considered worthy of journal publication? So how am I going to find such things if you haven't?

Tell me, if you cannot provide evidence which meets basic scientific methodology standards, why should anyone following scientific methods listen to you?

If I claimed I could fly, would you believe me? Would you be close minded for saying "Come on, that's a big claim. You're going to have to provide some evidence for that!" ? Of course not. Yet you practice a double standard when people ask you for evidence.

EDIT - BTW, if want to to publicly dismiss the term sonofusion, I would suggest you write a paper on that and publish it with proof.I don't claim its wrong, I claim that its not in violation of the 2nd law and noone has yet managed to develop it to the point where you can pour water into a car and it runs like a petrol driven car.

And again, you tell me to publish stuff to show you're wrong when you don't have published material showing you're right. Complete hypocrisy.

[BobG]

A conspiracist is an anti-semite, what a shock.

[Bishadi]

Wrong again. Your misapplication of second law would relegate all systems to closed and would destroy the definition of the second law.

there is no closed system; gravity proves that



You don't get to do that without a little peer review - good luck that one.


if all life evolved from weeeee little single celled critters and still here, after all them extinctions, then i propose; "life abuses the pants off of entropy."

2lot is a 'guideline' that should be put into the pirates code.

peer review all you like

don't get you a prize.

just ask Colonel Nathan R. Jessep, he said

"you can't handle the truth!
Son, we live in a world that has walls. And those walls ..."

are bound to the 2lot

it is why the thread titled idea, is so foriegn but tesla was all over it http://amasci.com/tesla/tesceive.html

because to comprehend it means, to realize the peers are for fishing off of

but don't expect all peirs to be good fishing spots that produce results.

there is a divide between believing and truly comprehending and many of science will believe their peers before ever doing the actual work. (standing on the peir, seeing all that water, knowing there is fish somewhere, but have no clue what you gonna catch)

it is exactly the same as a guy holding up a book and saying; "here is god"

no difference, as i just shared: life is proof............... but who is willing to stand up outside of the peers and just say, "that is true"............?

period!

be honest with yourself, and then it is easier but as soon as you lie to yourself and say..... "well they have this reduction of the reduction chaotically speaking with uncertain statistical results, so the 2lot is still valid"

is all BS.......... because unless you have done the work yourself

then you really don't know; so just accept what you can experience and go from there (witness fact; only as you can experience)

i say, life takes from the environment, by "intent" to survive, continue, live!

and before dying life will ooousally reproduce and make another, so he can put up a finger to doctor death (entropy) and say, i win!

and still winning!

facts are facts............ living mass is living; based on the energy upon the mass and that energy has 'intent'


and it aint to equilibriate!

[noblefuse]

ENERGY IS THE KEY TO CIVILIZATION- don't believe me- go live just one day in the woods- the valuable resource is getting dry as India and china want to live a little like the west-cant blame them- who I do blame is being on this net for so long as everyone uses their own arrogance and negativity to ignore solutions for energy- how many people have you met in your life that says they solved it- go ahead and ignore this as the rest in past year- when the total economy fails- don't be puzzled as you did nothing- pressure a university to investigate and repeat- I don't want your money-take your energy and help solve the energy crisis



Gamma ray emissions is significant
On February 29, 2008, New Energy Congress member, Robert Indech, PhD PE wrote:

Dear Sterling:

Viewing the video, the author needs to be congratulated for putting his ideas into practice. His technique is to discharge a high voltage (tunable) high frequency Tesla coil into a water bath, which may have some components of heavy water. In the video and comments he mentions putting 6000 watts into the water. Further, he notes that the Tesla coil itself gives off Gamma bursts, so that those measured could not be ascribed directly to the fusion process.

I did see no mention of measurement of high energy neutrons (admittedly which is a very difficult thing to measure). The requirement of 750 KV is mentioned often. Is that the potential needed for acceleration of the hydrogen to produce fusion?

The system could certainly be downsized to experiment with. What frequency is being used to resonate in the water? There are other, more stable power systems rather than Tesla coils, which produce a very clean high voltage, high frequency waveform, but with very little amperage. More significantly, such sources would not have Gamma ray emission, so that any detected rays would necessarily come from the fusion process itself.




Suggestions for Mechanism Improvement
On March 25, 2008, New Energy Congress member, Robert Indech, PhD PE wrote:

Dear Sterling:

In the Azar Fusion model, a Tesla coil discharging between two electrodes in water creates a plasma state following dissociation of the water to hydrogen and oxygen. The intense electric field causes an acceleration of the hydrogen ions toward the negative electrode, at a velocity that may reach relativistic speeds. As any accelerating charged body also emits a magnetic field, so too does the moving proton. The field so generated is akin to that of the magnetic field around a current carrying wire: the magnetic vector is strictly angular, whose magnitude decreases as the inverse square of the distance between the test point and the moving proton. If there is another moving proton nearby with the same vector direction as the first moving proton, then this magnetic field will give rise to a force on the second proton that is directed radially inward to the first proton. A bunching up of the parallel protons, or "squeeze" will occur. These equations and effects are fully described in the inventors "scientific" disclosure.

The inventor makes the leap that the subsequent radial velocity caused by this magnetic bunching effect is sufficient to overcome the natural Coulombic repulsion between these two protons, so much so that fusion will occur. For proton fusion, a velocity equivalent to 200-300 million degrees Kelvin is necessary IN THE RADIAL DIRECTION BETWEEN THE FUSION PROTONS. For deuterium fusion, only 20-30 million degrees Kelvin equivalent velocity. The Telsa coil pulse provides a longitudenal acceleration of the protons; it is the magnetic pinch effect that provides the radial acceleration. Thus, simply increasing the intensity of the Tesla coil may achieve a change in longitudenal velocity from .95 to .98 of the speed of light, but the corresponding radial net velocity would not be anywhere near that amount.

It is possible, however, for fusion to occur in isolated regions of the wave pathway between the two electrodes, as an accelerated proton in split water may impact a water molecule just before it has been split; in this case the enormous velocity imparted to the proton may be sufficient to overcome the Coulombic barrier. However, this is not a magnetic pinch effect, but it may give rise to some low level evidence of fusion occurring. In this case, one should do an energy balance to see if the net process is economically profitable (i.e. muon based fusion is possible, but not profitable).

The major problem with the Farnsworth Fusor is instability. The Fusor, when operated at fusion levels, with give rise to jets of ions which escape the spherical confining field. Thus, the Fusor fusion is possible, but not profitable. Perhaps this inventor can combine the two technologies, and utilize the magnetic pinch effect to bring stability to the fusion process, thus making the device possible and profitable. That is, utilize a deuterium water source, use a tunable Tesla coil to energize two electrodes, both electrodes set at the output potential of the coil, and surround the electrodes with a grounded open type electrical wire sphere. The AC oscillation induced by the Telsa coil may be sufficient to create stability so that ion jets do not form. Just a suggestion.

Promising Concept
On March 25, 2008, Daniel Bowers wrote:

Sterling,

I will admit that the calculations behind the physics are over my head but I understand magnetic fields, fields of energy, and how it is necessary to smash particles together to capture nuclear energy.

A plasmoid is a stabilized ball of plasma which is contained within its own magnetic field. Chukanov discovered this and along with his work in cold fusion has grasped the concept.

The Bussard Polywell device with concentric magnetic fields is a way to manipulate the flow of the plasma to get the necessary reaction. It was adapted from the Farnsworth–Hirsch Fusor.

After much experience reviewing plasma systems and every type of fusion reactor known to the wiki world and after reviewing the noble fuse technology I have come to a conclusion.

The concepts behind the Azar Fusion device are sound. Sandia National Labs achieved temperatures in excess of 2 billion degrees kelvin which is hot enough to achieve aneutronic fusion of Boron 11. For Mr. Azar to achieve the temperatures and the necessary velocity in order for fusion to occure with hydrogen or deuterium is very much conceivable. 100 to 300 million degrees kelvin in this device seems possible.

Last month you asked me to review a magnetohydrodynamic ocean generator which used the water as the containment field for a solid state magnet generator. Mr. Azar has applied the same principle to his technology utilizing the water to contain the magnetic field. Within this magnetic field electricity is passing at a high speed and the ionized particles get caught in the plasma pinch.

The concept for using a toroid to give increased efficiency is one that is applied in most fusion reactors to date.

The potential for scaleability, the simplicity and reproducability of the Noble Fusion technology gives this system merit when it comes to the development of viable free energy devices.

There are novel concepts with water based fusion reactors when it comes to containment and replenishing fuel. I believe that there is the potential for atmospheric pressure devices and much development that may stem from this technology. My first suggestion would be to employ the concept of the Farnsworth Hirsch Fusor in a heavy water based reaction vessel.

If the technology can be validated it will open the doors to the development of optimized devices. I have many recommendations for alternate configurations in mind but I wil save those for another day.

Hello, my name is Solomon Azar- I HAVE FOUND THE ROAD TO SAFE CLEAN NUCLEAR FUSION- When this is found and understood- the energy crisis will end- I have been looking at this system since 2002 and it is perfect in every way. I finished my experiments April-2007. I have since that time tried to the best of my abilities to inform many people upon the net- there is no question It would be nice if concerned citizens would offer suggestions or help provoke a university to simply repeat my experiment to end the energy crisis-- maybe after this next global nuclear war OVER ENERGY will people learn the lesson- when presented with solutions in life FREELY- CHASE THEM.

they say government employees and unions are bad because people have secure jobs and thus may be cruel or inattentive to others as they have no fear for discipline-

I risked my life with a one million volt experiment ending April 2007 for the ENERGY CRISIS- I emailed every single physics department in the united states-NOT A single one returned an email- being in the dark is the worst thing in life- no wonder America has now fallen apart- people just dont care for one another- get your head out your ass- I solved the energy crisis- it will take FAITH from YOU to take this little torch and make a bon fire of light for everyone to see. The world needs it- our children need it-time to act has come.



I have performed an experiment never done before in science- I used a Tesla coil for its use in high voltage high frequency and apply its discharge plasma not upon the dielectric of free air- but to the dielectric of water itself- specifically I used ultrapure reagent grade water from manufacture NERL-this is to establish the high degree of insulation needed for plasma (you cannot have contaminants for conductivity)- I doped my water with heavy water from the manufacturer UNITED NUCLEAR-(however- a full concentration of heavy water is desired)- I built my 1 million volt Tesla coil entire tunable- every aspect of it- as it must be done to TUNE THE OUTPUT DISCHARGE OF THE TESLA COIL to the water itself- once the arc is stable- the voltage may be increased- I have written in my pdf file in my website of noblefuse.com that a prerequisite of 750 kv is needed as an electric field gradient about the charged particles used in fusion( in this case the hydrogen bound in the water molecule) because of voltage drops as expected as in all electrical systems upon the load (load here is the water)- a much higher voltage is needed in order to distribute the voltage gradient upon entire arc plasma length between electrodes in water- THUS- THE HIGH THE VOLTAGE- THE BETTER- within my website you will find a link to youtube showing my primitive experiment- BUT MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT THIS- THIS IS THE FIRST TIME EVER DONE BEFORE - I propose nuclear fusion of water/heavy water- my little experiment IS THE ROAD TO NUCLEAR FUSION- we must universally connect the dots- put two and two together- and conclude this- MY EXPERIMENT MUST BE REPEATED ON A LARGER SCALE- my system is a direct replacement of nuclear power plants particularly of the pressurized water reactor which uses heavy water already - a vessel already built for gamma radiation and other high energy flux which will emit with the plasma arc-




Power reactor in which the heat is dissipated from the core using highly pressurized water (about 160 bar) to achieve a high temperature and avoid boiling within the core. The cooling water transfers its heat to the secondary system in a steam generator. Example: Grohnde Nuclear Power Plant in Germany with an electrical output of 1,430 MW.




Replace the rod assemblies and use electrodes to conduct the Lightning bolt! High Voltage High frequency will create the magnetic pinch to slam the isotopes of hydrogen together which is bound in water- helium and oxygen are the outgassed products recaptured by expansion tanks-it is absolutely perfect!




_ I HAVE FOUND THE TRUE PURPOSE OF THE TESLA COIL- the answer was always in the lightning bolt- understanding of gamma bursts from lightning discharges have only been recently vindicated from satellite in late 90s---

CA 94305 United States
Said, R ( ) , STAR Lab, Electrical Engineering, 350 Serra Mall, Stanford, CA 94305 United States
Smith, D M ( ) , Physics Department and Santa Cruz Institute for Particle Physics, University of California, Santa Cruz, 1156 High Street, Santa Cruz, CA 95064 United States
Lopez, L I ( ) , Astronomy Department and Space Sciences Laboratory, University of California, Berkeley, CA 94720 United States

The observation of brief (<1 ms) bursts of intense γ-rays, the so-called Terrestrial Gamma-ray Flashes (TGFs), by the BATSE γ-ray experiment was one of the most unexpected discoveries by the Compton Gamma-Ray Observatory.


Let me try to give another analogy to make the point. think about striking a match, if all conditions are proper , one knows that to strike a match, you must go a minimum speed- you cannot strike the match too slowly- this is understood as more speed is more friction and thus more activation energy necessary to create combustion of the match material. the same applies to this fusion system, first, imagine my system as inside a pressurized water reactor used in fission plants- the moderator is already heavy water- we shall use it as the fuel. I have said the plasma arc looks exactly like our friend the electric lightning bolt- but I talk about in my pdf file- that the so called lightning bolt must be understood in regards to high voltage and frequency- just like the minimum speed needed for the match- so it is with the combination on high voltage and frequency to not only resonate with the dielectric molecule of heavy water- but more so- to create a minimum velocity upon charged particles in the fuel water. this velocity is also exhibiting itself as a magnetic field-think of the cathode ray scope- in a snap shot instant in time for analysis, look at when the maximum energy is being applied on a per strike basis of the input cycle- or shall we say the highest amplitude of the ac signal. if for example- an input energy of one megawatt was injected into the strike of the arc- a magnetic pinch shall be directed upon the charged particles in transit of the discharge- in a thermodynamic extraction process such as this - we need at least 5 times more energy out of the system to recoup our initial energy input- and a surplus for commercial energy supply- thus- via fusion of hydrogen to helium- with each strike- a minimum voltage and frequency SHALL give the minimum activation energy required for magnetic pinching and fusion of the isotopes of hydrogen. to increase the q of the reaction in this system- a magnetic toroid may be used around the plasma arc for increased efficiency= such as used in tokamak devices. I hope this analogy helps those who question this system- THANK YOU--




Here is a thought experiment for electromagnetic fusion with Einstein in mind



Pretend you are water-you are an oxygen atom- you are stable- you are noble- 8 protons-8 neutrons-and 8 electrons- there are only 5 magic shell nuclear elements of the periodic table- oxygen is one of them- it is very stable-



Therefore- you are stable and noble- you have no need for fusion- yet it could happen- but the probability of another element such as hydrogen and its isotopes would be made to fuse together in some kind of fashion mankind tries will occur way before oxygen does- - ok-so now you are this noble one and you have outstretched in your hands a hydrogen atom and or its isotope deuteron and you hold it out to mankind as a gift-



Man understands the gift of fusion for many years and is desperately trying to do such-



I propose electromagnetic fusion- I propose the BENNET pinch used in poloidal currents used in plasmas of tokomaks- but much further-



Here we go – the thought experiment- you are this oxygen atom with two hydrogen’s and you stand amongst your friends similar in nature. You are placed in a large vessel filled of your kind-now imagine that two walls opposing in this vessel are the plates of a capacitor- who cares what is applied to the capacitor plates (electrodes of system)-for all you know as a noble oxygen and the hydrogen you have in your hands is nothing more than the electric field upon the plates-



You are composed of charged particles- thus you will interact with the applied electric field of the plates-this is common electronics and electric knowledge-



However, I speak of dielectric breakdown- I speak of the lightning bolt- let us now assume we have made the capacitor plates oscillate at 1 million volts peak to peak as way of a tesla coil



Think of the electric field- everything will be controlled by this field- a dielectric breakdown will occur- and all discharge current will begin to flow and oscillate as a function of the applied voltage-



Now- you are in the heart of a lightning bolt- you who are noble as a oxygen probably lost all your valence electrons due to the magnitude of such a high electric field- every charged particle in transit of the discharge current is surely ionized and talks of being a complete water molecule should be erased- the state of this plasma current is nothing more than ionized hydrogen and oxygen and a complete sea of electrons-



Let us think first of the electrons- 1896 times smaller than protons- no question it will oscillate much faster as a function to the applied voltage- remember the cathode ray scope- basic physics also will say this charged particle will also have a magnetic field about itself because of the electric field that has driven it-thus- this oscillating electron current will have an intrinsic magnetic field

Let us now think of the protons- oxygen has 8 and surrounded by 8 neutrons and is far less likely for reaction than isotopes of hydrogen for fusion- this should merely be understood by refereeing to atomic tables of elements and known theory- but this hydrogen is a singly bound proton with mass one- unless we speak of a deuteron- it will also be controlled exactly the same way as the electron is affected by the external applied voltage- however- it is opposite to the electrons motion-and much slower by its mass – however-its magnetic field will add to that of the electrons- this is standard knowledge of magnetic field generation of charged particles by way of electric fields-



Thus, in this thought experiment- within this state of dielectric breakdown- I like to say the lightning bolt- can you now see the oscillation of the charged particles by such a large magnitude of the applied voltage plates- can you now see the probability at a certain moment in time- particularly when the applied ac signal is greatest- that all magnetic fields of charged particles in transit can have the power to be magnetically pinched-



Magnetics have push and pull- it is well known that high frequency causes a constriction upon electrical currents- whether in copper lines and forcing such to the surface- or in plasma and made use to constrict it - high frequency is known to constrict the currents- thus- do you see the forces I am referring to as this dielectric breakdown has occurred upon the most perfect fuel of the heavens- water- this oxygen atom holds the hydrogen for us- we shall apply a high voltage (high is relative- I have stated 750kv in the vicinity of the hydrogen for fusion- I come to this by way of understanding the beta decay of a free neutron- if it can disintegrate- it can come together- made into a deuteron- then made into helium)-



Thus –we make helium and oxygen is then unbound and must also be recaptured- this is easy in expansion tanks- the byproducts are helium and oxygen-truly noble-



To increase the q of this system- a simple toroidal magnet as used in tokamaks for plasma control may be used for additional pinching-



I hope this helps- however- you must always think of the applied electric field and its magnetic inducement upon the charged particles- we will stably run the Tesla coil upon the dielectric of water itself (more appropriately heavy water) and turn up the voltage for greater acceleration speeds and thus magnetic fields- we can control pressure in this vessel- we can control electrode spacing and so much more-

that is my thought experiment for you to understand it is my intention to use all input energy by way of oscillating a very large electric field which will induce the proper magnetic flux density in units of Tesla for a pinching- not established hot fusion whereby all energy input is chaotic and the probability of fusion comes by way of statistics from a gas equation- no- high voltage and high frequency in an orderly manner by the construction of a man made lightning bolt with controllable parameters inside an existing pressurized nuclear reactor- everything is off the shelf- the world will run on steam power again globally-from trains-factories-ships-and all power plants- I offer the Watt steam engine again- not with two sticks to make fire and boil the water- but electromagnetic fusion with two electrodes to induce fusion of hydrogen isotopes to boil water and make steam- it is absolutely perfect.



To the CEO's of nuclear power plants-or pressurized coal fired- you have spare reactors in the back yards of your plants- take a 1 million volt tesla coil and do what I have said- you will measure its fusion reactions and you will conclude this - I have found the road to safe clean energy.

I speak plain science- please connect the dots and let us end this energy crisis for a world that desperately needs energy- May the light of God shine upon all our actions for the betterment of mankind



Solomon Sami Azar





update-after 22 months on this net- it seems evident people do not care until the machine breaks, right before our eyes our economy collapses as inflation and energy costs have been eating at our economy for some time now- maybe even global war with russia and iran will you finally care to investigate the deeds of a human being that has sacrificed his life over a dangerous experiment for all of us. Time will tell.



Jan 13- 2009