Ethics in Strategy games II

Discussion in 'Intelligence & Machines' started by Pollux V, Jun 17, 2002.

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  1. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    I've decided to bring this subject back up after giving it a few months of rest, to talk about the ethics of playing strategy games.

    Since the strategy genre was first created A.I that could outsmart an average human player, or at least give him or her a challenge, was sought. The thing is, as A.I gets more advanced every day we may come to the point where when we sacrifice a single soldier in pretend-combat to, say, distract an invading threat, we may be killing a thinking entity that is self aware.

    Some A.I in games really separates itself, I for one think that the A.I in Starcraft is superb, it always strikes at your weaknesses and pinpoints the easiest way to get inside of your base, it adapts to trouble and hardly ever gives up in a fight (this is not unheard of, though). It is definitely a challenge until, that's the kicker, until you manage to build up a large force that can wipe out whatever the computer has. It appears to be based more on guerilla warfare, strike frequently but with small forces, but this is always its undoing, since small, cheap troops cannot stand up to the might of a fleet of carriers.

    So when will these games get to the point that they'll begin to really exhibit a thinking ability, exploiting us and countering whatever we do, tricking us in diversions, the stuff of real battle and real-life strategy. Starcraft is really like the computer strategy version of chess, it's strategic abilities are limitless, so maybe by the time that blizzard (the company that manufactures starcraft) comes out with a starcraft 4 or something we'll be in the situation I've just talked about.
     
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  3. Rick Valued Senior Member

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    If you happen to interact with AI Bots of Quake III Arena you"ll know the difference and what is AI.Especially with some charracters like Phobos are advanced and give Humane responses...


    thanks.

    Bye!
     
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  5. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    Avatar if you see this, could you tell me what you think of the A.I in IG2? From what I remember it appeared to be very adept and could change according to its surroundings, of course it was driven by a lust for territory and, more importantly, taxes from the planets it overran. Unlike other games I don't think I ever beat the A.I on the hard difficulty, and I played that game almost every day for two months.
     
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  7. Gifted World Wanderer Registered Senior Member

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    Couldn't this AI research go to something like space probes or something? For example, if Pathfinder had been able to tell that it woudl have gotten stuck on those rocks before it got stuck...

    It seems to me that game AI is more sophisticated than real AI.
     
  8. Zoidberg Registered Senior Member

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    How can you have "real" AI?
    Heres something to think about, in games like Starcraft and Command and Conquer, what if your armies actually believe they're alive and are fighting a war for their survival?
    What about First Person Shooters, what if enemy bots actually want to stay alive, we could, in a way, be killing livng, thinking beings
     
  9. Thor "Pfft, Rebel scum!" Valued Senior Member

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    If what Zoidberg is saying is true. Might we have to stop playing games soon
     
  10. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    I read this now...was a bit gone of this forum.
    Naah, the A.I. in IG2 was pretty simple to defeat if you manage to crack the strategy. For isnstance those creeps from another galaxy. They become unbeatable later in the game , but if you strike early and much- they're no problem. Also ground assault...I just made HUGA amounts of tanks that called in airstrikes (1tank=1airstrike) I could destroy the heavyest enemy defences with no problem and enemy tanks even didn't attack me on the other side of their map. When they noticed my landing on the planet they all retreated to the strongholds. I just called air assaults and destroyed them with the strongholds. If I was in computers place , I'd rushed my tanks to the air assault tanks.

    on the thought about armies beying alive.....Don't think about it...Kill em...Just in case we are also in one big simulation it would be some kind of a revenge

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    Pollux, there is a IG 3 demo available at GameSpy!
    todays news
     
  11. sjmarsha Registered Senior Member

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    the AI in computer games is not advanced enough yet, because of the simple fact that it cannot learn from its mistakes.

    What the software designers should be working on is a system where for one game (following on from previous examples) the computer stays in its stronghold. Discovers that this didn't work, so next time it should try attacking, if that doesn't work then use a different tactic.

    So it is my opinion that computer AI's are so poor becuase they only have one response to most situations. They have to be made to be able to 'Learn' from their mistakes.
     
  12. iced_earth Anathematized Registered Senior Member

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    id have to agree with poll, i hate tht AI on starcraft it's given me a run for my crystals before.. and also thats true sjmarsha


    , if the AI could "learn" from its mistakes we would have to realy think.. but then the only thing we'd have on the AI is our human unperdictability.... you think im attacking don't you....muahahaa
     
  13. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    Yes, a game with a computer that could learn from its mistakes might have infinite replayability. The A.I in Starcraft is some of the best that I've ever seen, maybe better than Warcraft 3 (so far I've beat the buggers twice!). They are both very challenging.

    For me in IG2 the ground invasions didn't seem too important. I would focus on building up a huge fleet of battleships (~100 of em, if you have enough money) and just wipe out my enemy's fleet, ensuring that he wouldn't be able to move his troops around the various worlds he conquered. After that it's just all a matter of taking down his production centers and overruning his planets with tanks. I loved the skirmish mode (from the patch), it made it so that I didn't have to bother with the campaign. I could just duke it out with a few galactic rivals with eighty planets to conquer!

    If A.I in computer games gets to be so smart that it could actually be alive, we would probably have to stop playing the games that had that A.I and revert back to other games with A.I that wasn't so advanced. Of course, the A.I might actually be immortal as long as you have it on your hard drive, so taking down a bot here wouldn't have much effect. He could just respawn or something.
     
  14. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    what if some AI takes over and thinks that humans can respawn too?

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  15. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    I have wire cutters strapped to my belt, just in case. No aye-ai gonna take ovah m-mai home town!
     
  16. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    rofllmao
     
  17. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    er..what does that mean?
     
  18. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    roling on the floor laughing=rofl
    laughing my arse out=lamo

    I though that every net person knows these

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  19. Pollux V Ra Bless America Registered Senior Member

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    Well now I know. Crikey!
     
  20. Zero Banned Banned

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    Starcraft AI????? It sucks ass, what are you talking about? A few well coordinated attacks will bring any stupid comp AI to its knees. I wonder if you suck at Starcraft. If you struggle to beat the comp that is a sign you should pack up and go home, play "Karate Champ" on your black and white game boy.

    Ethics of AI? Heck, AI's would be useful in kamikaze bombing. Imagine the strategic possibilities. There is nothing wrong with that morally.
     
  21. Zero Banned Banned

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    Most of my friends could take on 3 comp AI's at once, average. I suck a bit, so I only do 2.
     
  22. Avatar smoking revolver Valued Senior Member

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    In Starcraft I take 3AI's

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    but they're stupid..They rarely all attack..Usually it is-> one AI kills another AI. then I kill both of them one at a time. I always play as a terran and my defences are ................adequate

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  23. Zero Banned Banned

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    Always play as terran? Blah. All experts play as random.
     
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