View Full Version : What is the foundation of blessing one's food before eating?
Medicine*Woman
06-26-08, 04:44 PM
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M*W: I want to know more about this simple religious habit. How/where did it originate? What was its purpose? Is praying over one's food necessary or is it just a religious passtime? What happens when one pray's over one's food but still gets a bout of food poison?
From my observation, praying over one's food is done for show, especially in large crowds. How many religious folks out there still pray over their food? In how many cultures does praying over food exist?
Thanks.
It doesn't have to be a "religious" habit, does it? I'm sure even a non-religious person can appreciate the fact that he or she has food in front of them, unlike hundreds of millions of other people who starve on a day-to-day basis. Personally, I always say Bismillahirrahmanirahim before eating, and Alhamdulillah afterwards.
PsychoticEpisode
06-26-08, 05:29 PM
If you weren't sure where your next meal was coming from and soon there appeared thousands of edible cockroaches in your pantry then would you give thanks for the food? Before and after you dine?
Your family is starving, desperate dad steals a loaf of bread from the grocery store. Would you give thanks if you knew it was stolen?
The only thing left to eat is your pet dog, would you give thanks?
spidergoat
06-26-08, 06:02 PM
Who's to thank? I deserve it!
cosmictraveler
06-26-08, 06:06 PM
I don't "pray" , I just sit quiet for a few moments and thank the animal which gave its life in order to keep mine alive. For me it is just a moment to reflect about where the food came from and how it got there.
Supper of jesus...the painting depicts this event...that is were this tradition started.
http://img2.freeimagehosting.net/uploads/2d1c150a72.jpg
you are full of shit
you spam these goddamn forums with disinformation
you are full of shit
you spam these goddamn forums with disinformation
I am giving my hypothesis as to were this tradition originated from.
The Last Supper: The Significance
The Last Supper is described in three of the four New Testament Gospels, Matthew, Mark and Luke. Here are some of the life-changing highlights, as recorded in the Gospel of Luke. First, Jesus predicts He will suffer soon after this meal and it will be His last meal prior to finishing His work on behalf of the kingdom of God (Luke 22:15-16). Second, Jesus gives His followers symbols of remembrance for His body and His blood sacrificed on behalf of all mankind. "And He took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them saying, 'This is my body given for you; do this in remembrance of me'" (Luke 22:19).
Third, Jesus provides a very important principle for living a Christian life: the greatest are those who serve others, not those who expect to be served (Luke 22:26). Finally, Jesus provides hope to his followers: "and I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel" (Luke 22:29-30).
For the last two millennia, the Last Supper has inspired people to live by faith in Jesus Christ, by serving others instead of following the worldly influences of expecting to be served.
The Last Supper: The History of the Event
The Last Supper was held on the evening of preparation for the Jewish Passover, a very holy time for the Jewish nation in remembrance of when God spared the Jews from the plague of death on every firstborn child in Egypt. Jesus arranged the dinner purposely by instructing His disciples where to host it. His twelve disciples were with Him during and after the meal. It is here that Jesus makes the prediction that Peter will deny knowing Him three times before the rooster crows that morning, which became true. Jesus also predicts that one disciple, Judas Iscariot, will betray Him, which also became true. The Last Supper was a gathering for Christ to fellowship with His disciples one last time prior to His arrest and crucifixion. ...
spidergoat
06-26-08, 06:21 PM
Supper of jesus...the painting depicts this event...that is were this tradition started.
Is that Indian guy also a friend of Jesus?
Is that Indian guy also a friend of Jesus?
that is his decision...he is either a friend of Jesus if he believe in Jesus or is not a friend of Jesus if he does not believe in Jesus. For those who believe in Jesus, even in his death, are friends of the lord.
There is an Indian custom of thanking the animal you are going to eat for the meat he will provide you.
"food blessing"
are these the goddamn boards over at AOL?
why are you goddamn shitting on sciforums, you fuck!
There is an Indian custom of thanking the animal you are going to eat for the meat he will provide you.
references?
PsychoticEpisode
06-26-08, 06:28 PM
There is an Indian custom of thanking the animal you are going to eat for the meat he will provide you.
At least a cannibal might get a "you're welcome" or 'My pleasure" from the food they thank.
At least a cannibal might get a "you're welcome" or 'My pleasure" from the food they thank.
would they? :bugeye: I would disagree.
SAM I ask you again to provide relevant information on Indian origins of the blessing of ones food.
PsychoticEpisode
06-26-08, 06:34 PM
would they? :bugeye: I would disagree.
I said might. I don't know everything.
I've seen people give thanks in McDonalds.
I'm sure people have given thanks and ended up with food poisoning...an error in judgment on their part or does God have a purpose in mind?
Orleander
06-26-08, 06:37 PM
There is an Indian custom of thanking the animal you are going to eat for the meat he will provide you.
same with Native Americans.
We said grace to thank god for our bounty and being alive to eat it with those we loved.
http://www.normanrockwellvt.com/big.jpg/Saying_Grace.jpg
references?
Just observation.
However, this is one of the oldest shlokas that is said before meals.
Its called the Bhojan Mantra or Meal Prayer.
It is compiled from several sources.
Audio (http://www.geetganga.org/bhojan-mantra)
Aum Yantu Nadayo Varshantu Parjanyaah
Supippalaa Oshadhayo Bhavantu
Annavataamodanavataa Maamikshavataam
Eshaam Raajaa Bhooyaasam
Odanamudbruvate Parameshttheevaa
Eshah Yadodanah
Paramaamevainam Shriyam gamayati [Yajurveda]
May rivers flow and clouds give rain. May medicinal plants flourish and all trees bear fruit. May I be the benefactor of the people producing the food like rice and milk products. The cooked food served on the plate is a gift from God whose consumption will lead to the highest level of prosperity and well being.
Maa Bhraataa Bhraataran Dwikshan
Maa Svasaaramutassvasaa
Samyanchah Savrataa Bhootvaa
Vaacham Vadata Bhadrayaa [Atharva Veda.]
Brother should not fight with brother, sisters should be kind. All should speak gently with each other and generate the attitude of truth, service and cooperation.
Brahmaarpanam Brahmahavir
Brahmaagnau Brahmanaa Hutam
Brahmaiva Tena Gantavyam
Brahma Karma Samaadhinaa [Bhagvad gita]
The items we use to feed ourselves are Brahman. The food itself is Brahman. The fire of hunger we feel is Brahman. We are Brahman and the process of eating and digesting the food is the action of Brahman. Finally, the result we obtain is Brahman.
Aum Saha Naavavatu
Saha Nau Bhunaktu
Saha Veeryam Karavaavahai
Tejasvinaa Vadheetamastu
Maa Vidvishaa VahaiAUM SHANTIH SHANTIH SHANTIH[Upanishads (Taittiriya, Katha, Shvetashvatara)]
Let us protect each other. Let us eat together. Let us work together. Let us study together to be bright and successful. Let us not hate each other.
For the meaning of Brahman, see here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brahman)
Which of those is the oldest? Yajurveda, Atharva Veda, Bhagvad gita Upanishads
The Vedas are the oldest, followed by the Upanishads [though they are regarded as part of the Veda and form the core of the Vedanta] and the Gita.
In the short version, only the one from the Gita is recited.
The Vedas are the oldest, followed by the Upanishads [though they are regarded as part of the Veda and form the core of the Vedanta] and the Gita.
In the short version, only the one from the Gita is recited.
what is the age of Atharva Veda origin?
11th century B.C...
No one knows the true age of the Vedas, they were transmitted orally for much longer than they have been available in the written form.Since they were originally written on bark which does not survive beyond 100 years it is hard to say. Traditional lore dates it at 1000 years B.C. but the oldest surviving Veda is from the 11th century B.C. The Vedic period spanned the Iron and late Bronze age and lasted for a millenium.
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M*W: I want to know more about this simple religious habit. How/where did it originate? What was its purpose? Is praying over one's food necessary or is it just a religious passtime? What happens when one pray's over one's food but still gets a bout of food poison?
From my observation, praying over one's food is done for show, especially in large crowds. How many religious folks out there still pray over their food? In how many cultures does praying over food exist?
Thanks.
passtime? habit? i am sure the religious do not consider it thusly. furthermore, while i am aware you had not asserted this, i like to point out that blessings are not confined to meals. one could theoretically preface any activity with that shit. one can exorcise the new house, cross signage before a trip. some even say grace after meals as kardark does
We have eaten, and we drank, and to The Holy One, Blessed Be He we blessed; that gave us and will give us bread to eat, and clothes to wear, and years to live. The Great Father that gives to the little one, gives to us our needs for our homes and for our children. God hears us and answers us and has pity on us, because of His Great Name, we are little souls without sin. Give thanks to The Lord, for He is good, for His Mercy endures forever. Give thanks to The Lord, for He is good, for His Mercy endures forever. Always better, never worse, never should the table of The Creator lack for us. Amen
one could approach it from a buddhist angle...mindfulness....activities are preceded by some reflection of a........ devout/superstitious/spiritual nature
One of the most beautiful practices that I have retained from my Jewish roots is the recitation of blessings, called Brachot, which are prayers of gratitude. Judiaism is similar to Greek Orthodoxy in being a tradition of gratitiude. In Judiaism there are over a hundered blessings that express our gratitude to God for every kind of natural wonder - things that grow, stars that shine, food we eat, rainbows, even the narural functions of elimination that keep our bodies healthy! Brachot naturally brings us into mindfulness.
link (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_prayer#Blessings_over_food) link (http://www.edmundclt.org/spirituality/beingeuch/beingeuch.html) link (http://www.msnusers.com/FullMoonParadise/mindfulness.msnw)
No one knows the true age of the Vedas, they were transmitted orally for much longer than they have been available in the written form.Since they were originally written on bark which does not survive beyond 100 years it is hard to say. Traditional lore dates it at 1000 years B.C. but the oldest surviving Veda is from the 11th century B.C. The Vedic period spanned the Iron and late Bronze age and lasted for a millenium.
So it seems that from the oldest traditions it would be the Indian, not Christian or jewish.
What about Australian aboriginals? Arguably they've been around for 40,000 years. What is their custom?
codanblad
06-26-08, 10:01 PM
What about Australian aboriginals? Arguably they've been around for 40,000 years. What is their custom?
my bet is the same thing native americans do. they've got the same 'affinity with the land, animals and spirits' motif going.
spidergoat
06-26-08, 10:07 PM
*************
M*W: I want to know more about this simple religious habit. How/where did it originate? What was its purpose? Is praying over one's food necessary or is it just a religious passtime? What happens when one pray's over one's food but still gets a bout of food poison?
From my observation, praying over one's food is done for show, especially in large crowds. How many religious folks out there still pray over their food? In how many cultures does praying over food exist?
Thanks.
So, basically, it's guilt for taking the life of a creature to fuel your own.
sam
i demand the return of your old avatar
the bookworm on the couch
Done.:p
PsychoticEpisode
06-26-08, 10:22 PM
Giving thanks for food is one of the more hypocritical customs of the god fearing religious. To know you are endearing yourself to God when others of the same ilk are literally starving to death is bordering on preferentialism. It is an absolute shame.
SAM & in particular Draq have chosen the honorable 'changing the subject' tactic to avoid an untenable situation. Be brave and admit the custom is a stupid one instead of performing this act of pusillanimity.
Giving thanks for food is one of the more hypocritical customs of the god fearing religious. To know you are endearing yourself to God when others of the same ilk are literally starving to death is bordering on preferentialism. It is an absolute shame.
SAM & in particular Draq have chosen the honorable 'changing the subject' tactic to avoid an untenable situation. Be brave and admit the custom is a stupid one instead of performing this act of pusillanimity.
Huh? No, giving thanks is a very good thing. It denotes appreciation rather than the tendency to entitlement. As for religion, Islam does not encourage self denial or sorrow in the face of plenty. Thats just ridiculous. Enjoy what you have and share with the less fortunate and be grateful that you have it. We've set aside a month in the year for the self denial to know exactly what it is we are thankful for. The rest of the time is for enjoyment. Choking on good food or beating yourself up about it is not conducive to a healthy attitude.
Giving thanks for food is one of the more hypocritical customs of the god fearing religious. To know you are endearing yourself to God when others of the same ilk are literally starving to death is bordering on preferentialism. It is an absolute shame.
SAM & in particular Draq have chosen the honorable 'changing the subject' tactic to avoid an untenable situation. Be brave and admit the custom is a stupid one instead of performing this act of pusillanimity.
PE,
do review the posts made by me, as I state first that Christianity was the foundation of the blessing by giving the painting as a proof. At which stage gustav comes along waging war against me without any references on the topic. Much later only does gustav supplies claims of judaism being the origin of blessing of food. Later however SAM comes claiming that India has the oldest blessing tradition as written in the Vedas. I support this and her claims of this. Indian Vedas being one of the oldest texts written in 11th BC. Our current discussion harbors itself on hypothesis that aborigines of Australia could have had an even older food blessing tradition (but I doubt that).
PsychoticEpisode
06-26-08, 10:50 PM
S&D...I'm not sure what Gustav was trying to accomplish. As for myself the saying of grace is totally unnecessary in any religion. We thank God for food and we thank Him when 1 person out of 300 survives a plane crash. In fact God gets thanked everytime some poor bastard gets lucky and that includes just about everything. He gets thanked by every country that's ever won a war. There is no end to thanking the Almighty for everything that is fortunate.
It's a slippery slope that gets more and more exotic each time you approve one of God's actions insofar as much that people thank God for the death of some people. An enemy's death I can barely accept but to thank god for taking your 4 year old to heaven so they don't have to suffer anymore. I cannot be gracious to God, not because I don't think he's there but because I can't waste any part of my life on something so ridiculous.
Vkothii
06-26-08, 11:08 PM
So, basically, it's guilt for taking the life of a creature to fuel your own.Pretty much that's what "offering" thanks, or part of the animal was and still is all about.
It's tied to the notion of sanctifying something that "displeases" - animal life has been taken or sacrificed for the group - so it's something that "appeases".
Of course, that's all really done, towards an abstraction of individual/group coherence. A "god" appears, who never really exists except as a cultural construct - a group activity that maintains order and rightfulness of individual/group existence.
The makings of religion are inextricably linked to our early (individual) hunting and (group) sharing activities.
But the whole thing is about chow.
Uh no, offering thanks is not guilt. Its appreciation.
Brahmaarpanam Brahmahavir
Brahmaagnau Brahmanaa Hutam
Brahmaiva Tena Gantavyam
Brahma Karma Samaadhinaa [Bhagvad gita]
The items we use to feed ourselves are Brahman. The food itself is Brahman. The fire of hunger we feel is Brahman. We are Brahman and the process of eating and digesting the food is the action of Brahman. Finally, the result we obtain is Brahman
Vkothii
06-26-08, 11:16 PM
Uh no, offering thanks is not guilt. Its appreciation.Well, appreciation is also arguably the giving of thanks, which then leads unswervingly to the notion of appeasement, of assuaging individual guilt. My pick is: this has always been easier to do as a group.
Well, appreciation is also arguably the giving of thanks, which then leads unswervingly to the notion of appeasement, of assuaging individual guilt. My pick is: this has always been easier to do as a group.
I don't know anyone who considers appreciation as guilt. You have strange ideas about sociology. :shrug:
Vkothii
06-26-08, 11:23 PM
Ok, let's see.
If I ignore altogether that there is an extant science of social and cultural phenomena: Appreciation is what then? A feeling of some kind? A compulsion?
offering thanks is not guilt. Its appreciation.
Guilt and appreciation aren't related, they are entirely separated on the emotional "list" or whatever it is?
I don't know anyone who considers appreciation as guilt. You have strange ideas about sociology.I didn't actually say that appreciation was the same thing as guilt. Have another look at it.
Yeah, I appreciate the good things in life, I don't feel guilty about them. I feel guilty if I do something wrong.
Vkothii
06-26-08, 11:30 PM
I feel guilty if I do something wrong.Define "wrong", I bet you can't.
Wrong = not right
Good things= right.
Vkothii
06-26-08, 11:33 PM
Oh sure, now you're using a term that's opposite - "negative bad"...?
Yeah, I consider dark as not light.
Vkothii
06-27-08, 12:49 AM
Me too. usually when it isn't light, it's dark. Then, when it isn't dark, it's light...?
*************
M*W: I want to know more about this simple religious habit. How/where did it originate? What was its purpose? Is praying over one's food necessary or is it just a religious passtime? What happens when one pray's over one's food but still gets a bout of food poison?
From my observation, praying over one's food is done for show, especially in large crowds. How many religious folks out there still pray over their food? In how many cultures does praying over food exist?
Thanks.
i agree with you. i think it's showy, ceremonial bullshit. if people were really thankful for the food that is provided by god on this earth, they wouldn't eat what they do. they would eat food that was healthy, they wouldn't waste it and contaminate it like they do, and they wouldn't pray about being thankful for it in public. people are full of hot air and they are stupid enough to think that god falls for it. people aren't grateful for much of anything on this earth and it's apparent by the way we treat it. they should put their money where they're mouths are. saying some trite rhetorical bullshit before they fill their fat faces with contaminated junk food that we rape the planet to produce so much of that we end up throwing half of it away isn't really being so grateful.
i agree with you. i think it's showy, ceremonial bullshit. if people were really thankful for the food that is provided by god on this earth, they wouldn't eat what they do. they would eat food that was healthy, they wouldn't waste it and contaminate it like they do, and they wouldn't pray about being thankful for it in public. people are full of hot air and they are stupid enough to think that god falls for it. people aren't grateful for much of anything on this earth and it's apparent by the way we treat it. they should put their money where they're mouths are. saying some trite rhetorical bullshit before they fill their fat faces with contaminated junk food that we rape the planet to produce so much of that we end up throwing half of it away isn't really being so grateful.
Strangely enough, you'll find waste is very low in these communities.
Strangely enough, you'll find waste is very low in these communities.
WHAT communities? what planet are you on? because this one's just about depleted, and unless you live in some amish community or are a native in the rainforest, you're just as much to blame as anyone. i am to blame. i just sat my fat ass in some air-conditioned restaurant last night being gluttonous and i used to work in a restaurant. i KNOW how much we waste. i used to throw away more food than people ever ate, and they ate too much, and food that is not nutritious. that's why everyone, especially in this country, is sick. so now i work for a japanese auto parts manufacturer which isn't any better, as we make more cars so we can spew more filth in the air and nobody cares as long as we're all making money, which is what it all boils down to...greed and gluttony and sloth and you know the list. we're destroying ourselves and the planet in the name of sin. we're all slaves to it and nobody really gives a shit.
Yeah, I was very surprised to see the waste in the US. Its unbelievable
Michael
06-27-08, 01:59 PM
Medicine*Woman,
Japanese say itadakimasu which can be translated as "I gratefully receive" but the feeling is of appreciation that someone/something has died for you to live.
So it's probably recognizing the cycle of life and death.
Michael
Medicine*Woman,
Japanese say itadakimasu which can be translated as "I gratefully receive" but the feeling is of appreciation that someone/something has died for you to live.
So it's probably recognizing the cycle of life and death.
Michael
uh
the cow consented to die a horrible death to nourish another?
its cycle of life and death determined by humans?
bullshit
i have food on the table cos i worked my ass off for it
i thank me!
Did you grow it? Maybe you should phone the farmer and thank them :D
Michael
06-28-08, 01:07 PM
uh
the cow consented to die a horrible death to nourish another?
its cycle of life and death determined by humans?I didn't say anything about consented. I said that some people make the acknowledgment that yes something died (or was murdered) for you to live. Hell, people are so far removed from food now-a-days some probably don't know ham comes from a slaughtered pig.
Vkothii
06-28-08, 07:37 PM
Look at the Judaeo-Christian myth of the "first people". What happened to them? They got booted out of the garden because they ate something - some food.
Why were they forbidden to eat the fruit? It was apparently a fig-tree, let's think about these fig things for a sec.
Imagine an early people who have a resource available - a grove of wild figs - and also that they don't know much about agriculture, or horticulture. A bit of rationality should lead to the desire by this group to preserve the resource - they don't want members of the tribe going there and helping themselves, or the fig grove will get used up, the resource will disappear.
We must have had some kind of early agricultural/husbandry ideas; one of which I imagine was awareness that things like fig trees have to be husbanded, "don't eat all the figs, or there won't be any seed stock", etc.
Adam and Eve were transgressors - they broke the group rule, about going to the big fig-tree; they go and help themselves to the "sacred resource", which has cultural and ritualistic strictures, they are guilty of transgression against the group. They get ostracised, they feel shame.
What do they do about their shame - their inability to make any reparation to the group, because the group has cast them out? They notice their own nakedness, they appease their shame and guilt by covering their genitals.
PsychoticEpisode
06-28-08, 09:43 PM
When I sit down to eat I don't worry that somewhere in the world another person is dying of starvation. But I would have to think that this thought or something similar is the basis for thanking god for chow. However, it's not thanking god for food but for another chance at survival.
......for you to live.
is that actually .... so?
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