View Full Version : God is the universe
First, a thread starated a while aback started off along the lines of a physicial basis to the existence of God. Imagine firstly an existence of God that does not exists within the universe. That is absurd. God does not exist outside of this universe. Agreed?
With that deduction made, I would go on to discuss and bring about a discussion of what God is, and I believe that God at the proper level of discussion would be nonethe less than the universe. Thoughts???
IMO, I am a pantheist who claims to be of christian beliefs, although an agnostic when it comes to not knowing. Isn't a pantheist someone who believes that God is the universe?
I don't see how else he would exist. Other peooples claims that God this and God that are irrelevant to me. I was wondering if anybody felt the same way.
cosmictraveler
06-22-08, 05:04 AM
It doesn't really matter if other feel the way you do. It matters only if you believe in yourself and what gets you through the day. ;)
pharaohmoan
06-22-08, 05:33 AM
Why can't God be part of a multi-verse and therefore reside in whichever one he pleases. This universe probably being one of the dumber ones to choose from!
This universe probably being one of the dumber ones to choose from!
LOL :D
Why ?
OilIsMastery
06-22-08, 05:45 AM
The universe is an effect. God isn't; God is the First Cause.
First, a thread starated a while aback started off along the lines of a physicial basis to the existence of God. Imagine firstly an existence of God that does not exists within the universe. That is absurd. God does not exist outside of this universe. Agreed?
With that deduction made, I would go on to discuss and bring about a discussion of what God is, and I believe that God at the proper level of discussion would be nonethe less than the universe. Thoughts???
IMO, I am a pantheist who claims to be of christian beliefs, although an agnostic when it comes to not knowing. Isn't a pantheist someone who believes that God is the universe?
I don't see how else he would exist. Other peooples claims that God this and God that are irrelevant to me. I was wondering if anybody felt the same way.
Yes, but don't anthropomorphize.
I think 'nature' is more accurate though.
Gods are anthropomorphisms of nature.
pharaohmoan
06-22-08, 10:37 AM
LOL :D
Why ?
Quite simply it based on the premise that there is a multi-verse. When I think about all of space and the infinate amount of potential there is out there, then common sense tells me there must be other universes. The big question is can one universe interact with another and how could it be done? My only experience of other places existing are of the astral worlds. I cannot say if these worlds are of this universe or another. If they are from another then it means that consciousness if free of the physical limitations or boundaries of this world can truly travel anywhere it pleases. The other possibiity is that they are other dimensions within this universe, either way it is the non-physical consciousness which I believe is key in traveling to other destinations whether it can take pysical form in those 'other places' I do not know.
So with the ample amount of universes or as a bare minimum dimensions to choose from for God, this fucked up world is probably about as appealing to a God as a dog sandwich is to a westerner vising Korea. Actually how impressed do you think God would be that when you reverse his name you get dog a subservient animal! This is why IMO we have seen little to no divine intervention from higher powers. A sad fact but when you put earth in the same persepctive as what's happening elsewhere there would be no comparison. Lets face it the human pychi is pretty predictable so that's off the divine observation charts as is the way people act in groups, all very predictable. So with this in mind the last thing to actually happen of reportable proportions in the world was 9/11. So not much action on this world if you're a God huh!
Thinking about it now, and I hope this isn't the manic depressive side in me, but this world is well and truly STAGNANT.
Yea well, God put us here and we fucked up the earth..
First, a thread starated a while aback started off along the lines of a physicial basis to the existence of God. Imagine firstly an existence of God that does not exists within the universe. That is absurd. God does not exist outside of this universe. Agreed?
With that deduction made, I would go on to discuss and bring about a discussion of what God is, and I believe that God at the proper level of discussion would be nonethe less than the universe. Thoughts???
IMO, I am a pantheist who claims to be of christian beliefs, although an agnostic when it comes to not knowing. Isn't a pantheist someone who believes that God is the universe?
I don't see how else he would exist. Other peooples claims that God this and God that are irrelevant to me. I was wondering if anybody felt the same way.
You are right on all accounts, except for the supposisition that some how our level of knowledge allows for us to make a statement that we understand the universe so well that any belief could be classified as "absurd" above any other (belief) considering our level of knowledge.
What in the world is a "multi-verse?" Again people trying to name things. Why don't they say "we don't understand a blessed thing". But there could be many universes. ie: existences we can not measure presently. Funny thing about the idea of multi-verses , OUR universe has not been described, gravity and magnets are mysteries!
So we can't understand our universe, so lets imagine others!
What if.... is a great mechanism for discovery, but to say "God's existence outside of this universe (presently undescribed) is absurd" is absurd.
What if the universe you think you live in is not at all what it appears? Not a new idea at all but something to keep in mind.
Now back to trying to explain why magnets work....those pesky magnets!
Yea well, God put us here and we fucked up the earth..
You really dont know that. We are a civilisation that's all. We progressed the best way we knew how to. There are new things to learn but where there is a will there is a way.
First, a thread starated a while aback started off along the lines of a physicial basis to the existence of God. Imagine firstly an existence of God that does not exists within the universe. That is absurd. God does not exist outside of this universe. Agreed?
With that deduction made, I would go on to discuss and bring about a discussion of what God is, and I believe that God at the proper level of discussion would be nonethe less than the universe. Thoughts???
IMO, I am a pantheist who claims to be of christian beliefs, although an agnostic when it comes to not knowing. Isn't a pantheist someone who believes that God is the universe?
I don't see how else he would exist. Other peooples claims that God this and God that are irrelevant to me. I was wondering if anybody felt the same way.
Spot on.
Since GR says that there cannot be no outside to the universe, then there cannot be non-contained universe, instead everything must be self-contained. So if God created everything, He would also need to be everything we come to know, as the universe itself. God is Mother Nature. The Red Indians believed in something similar. They saw the material world as being forms themselves as having singular spirits, such as spirits in the rivers, mountains, and even the Jackle was considered to have a unique and honored spirit.
God is the whole spirit. He/She makes up the whole of this spiritual realm. The nature of this intelligence, could have many forms though.
baumgarten
06-23-08, 12:42 AM
The universe is an effect. God isn't; God is the First Cause.
argument from infinite regress is self-contradictory. every thing is an effect; god is a thing; therefore god cannot be uncaused
i am drunk
why did i come back here?
We progressed the best way we knew how to.
Until recently. Nowadays we know we have taken a wrong route, but we are unwilling to turn back to take the right one. This one leads to death.
scorpius
06-23-08, 11:59 PM
Yea well, God put us here and we fucked up the earth..
if thats true then its Gods fault!
he made us the way we are ;)
if thats true then its Gods fault!
he made us the way we are ;)
Exactly my point :D
First, a thread starated a while aback started off along the lines of a physicial basis to the existence of God. Imagine firstly an existence of God that does not exists within the universe. That is absurd. God does not exist outside of this universe. Agreed?
With that deduction made, I would go on to discuss and bring about a discussion of what God is, and I believe that God at the proper level of discussion would be nonethe less than the universe. Thoughts???
IMO, I am a pantheist who claims to be of christian beliefs, although an agnostic when it comes to not knowing. Isn't a pantheist someone who believes that God is the universe?
I don't see how else he would exist. Other peooples claims that God this and God that are irrelevant to me. I was wondering if anybody felt the same way.
That's called "Pantheism", and I'm pretty sure you started a thread on that very subject recently.
It all ultimately depends on what you're willing to believe. M-Theory states that there is space in which the universe itself resides. That's nowhere near being consensus, but it's out there. Fact is, we just don't know for sure if there is such a thing as "outside" the universe.
But personally, I'm just curious where the has to be a god involved? Why couldn't this just have been an ordinary, run-o-the-mill event that happens a few times every second?
Mr. Hamtastic
12-06-08, 07:00 PM
Soooo... We are limiting God to fit within a universe, and not exist in and out of that universe? Why?
FOR THE EXACT REASON MENTIONEND IN THE THREAD IN PHILOSOPHY FORUM
However do note that the better of these thread hamster is the thread with the word physics in the title
Mr. Hamtastic
12-06-08, 07:16 PM
THERES NO "REASON" THERE!
I can hit caps lock, too...
So then your saying my thread in philosophy is ... absurd and without meaning well...
It is not.
To cause the removal of an idea from existance is also to cause the removal of a soul
If you wish for many to never return to this universe think before you speak to someone like myself (or anyone).
Remember: any idea is caused in reality and to remove it is what?
Mr. Hamtastic
12-06-08, 07:21 PM
No, I'm saying that the reason, there, is indecipherable to me.
You seem to be leading to the idea that all ideas are "souls"?
I knew you would push the button.
What is the result?
Mr. Hamtastic
12-06-08, 07:28 PM
Result? Utter confusion.
Best result.
That it doesn't result in the removal of any souls dying at present (bringing the idea of gods non existance), into the world is better
Mr. Hamtastic
12-06-08, 07:37 PM
Let's play a game. Pretend I'm 4 and that the information you are sharing is vitally important.
What?
Be a good boy/girl.
It isn't vitally importatn to a 4 year old. For him to even comprehend/understand it is not good.
He has no reason to understand it.
It is not vitally important ot him other than the people who keep track of history
Mr. Hamtastic
12-06-08, 07:45 PM
So, how do we know that history is true, and did exist, except by someone telling us about it?
So you're saying to just reflect on your thinking and not discuss it?
To give someone knowledge of Gods infrastructure is to give them weapons of mass destruction.
To discuss and tell someone that their thoughts are subject to more than any history presented to any scientific field and that this is absurd in itself... is to fail.
I am making no claims here that the validy is correct i simply wish you to assume that I am talking about something which has some value
or meaning
In anycase discuss whatever thoughts you have don't worry be happy.
History is true in that it is a part of who we are today.
I am not sure but I believe hegel wrote something about history.
If this is so then he was a great philosopher.
But I could be wrong.
Afterall finding out what you want from a forum is all one needs.
I know that I probably don't for example need to be on this forum right now. I am only presenting an idea which is important to me. I have did this in the past. Most of my threads share similar ideas as do all of ours.
It is not like I am trying to discuss something which you will not believe however I believe thats what I'm doing and I don't care to try.
More than that I am just posting what I believe is a good idea (refering to the philosophy thread) and here I am trying to make the claim (that I made a long itme ago) - --- and to continue to make the same claim instead of CHANGING it, I would say that God is the universe. That god is.
But would prefer to ask that the thread is closed..t hank you very much.
God does not exist outside of this universe. Agreed?
God at the proper level of discussion would be none the less than the universe. Thoughts???
What purpose is there to using the word "god" as a synonym for "the universe?" It would seem only to introduce superstitious baggage without actually saying anything more than could be said by using "the universe."
In other words the other uses of the term "god," like JC's dad or Krishna, degrades its utility for meaning the universe so as an inferior term it should be dropped to avoid unnecessary confusion.
IMO, I am a pantheist who claims to be of Christian beliefs
I'm not sure how that could work within the normal usages of pantheist.
Isn't a pantheist someone who believes that God is the universe?
Essentially, though there isn't a set standard for pantheism. Generally pantheism holds that "god" is at least the universe and naturalism holds that "god" is no more or less than just the universe (when it bothers to posit a "god.") In neither of these cases would "god" be something that superstitious theists would consider as a god. I guess the break down is a superstitious theist believes god is wholly supernatural and without natural extension. A pantheist would hold "god" as comprising nature and possible having some supernatural properties and a naturalist would hold "god" as just comprising the natural world.
I don't see how else he would exist.
Why is there any need for a god in the first place?
The universe is an effect. God isn't; God is the First Cause.
You don't actuall know any of that. You are just making stuff up.
The universe is an effect. God isn't; God is the First Cause.
If things need causes, where is god's?
If things don't need causes, why concoct a god?
As for the question in the first post, it seems like the last act of a rational person who, despite their secular leanings, is looking for one last peg on which to hang their deity and superstition. There is nothing about the universe which suggests that it is thinking or has consciousness. Everything that happens around us follows exacting laws. The desire to put a human-like agent in charge of all events is a biological drive that must be resisted.
If things need causes, where is god's?
If things don't need causes, why concoct a god?
As for the question in the first post, it seems like the last act of a rational person who, despite their secular leanings, is looking for one last peg on which to hang their deity and superstition. There is nothing about the universe which suggests that it is thinking or has consciousness. Everything that happens around us follows exacting laws. The desire to put a human-like agent in charge of all events is a biological drive that must be resisted.
Wb y0.
Things need causes most particularly thoughts which seem to span from past behaviors. Most particularly in response to the other guy who posted about older posts in thist hread.
The newer ones are more valuable (see above).
laladopi
12-07-08, 10:25 PM
It doesn't really matter if other feel the way you do. It matters only if you believe in yourself and what gets you through the day. ;)
YUCK! thats suck a sarcastic gross statement.
God is the universe, Your knowledge is only part of it.
Jan Ardena
12-11-08, 11:39 AM
First, a thread starated a while aback started off along the lines of a physicial basis to the existence of God. Imagine firstly an existence of God that does not exists within the universe. That is absurd. God does not exist outside of this universe. Agreed?
With that deduction made, I would go on to discuss and bring about a discussion of what God is, and I believe that God at the proper level of discussion would be nonethe less than the universe. Thoughts???
IMO, I am a pantheist who claims to be of christian beliefs, although an agnostic when it comes to not knowing. Isn't a pantheist someone who believes that God is the universe?
I don't see how else he would exist. Other peooples claims that God this and God that are irrelevant to me. I was wondering if anybody felt the same way.
God is the universe, in the same way parts of your body are you.
jan.
I'm still wondering why we say oh God, oh God when we have sex.
I'm still wondering why we say oh God, oh God when we have sex.
You say that ?
Sometimes, my wife more than me. Just curious why it comes out. The oh God part that is.
Same works when people are in a very frightening situation. Human response mechanism to fear etc I guess.
Probably 'cos humans fight their instincts to merely shout noises, and want to try to remain in control - which manifests through use of a word that is close to the sound/noise that we would otherwise instinctively come out with.
When we do lose control, our instincts take over and we don't verbalise the sounds (e.g. the scream etc).
Or something like that.
Probably 'cos humans fight their instincts to merely shout noises, and want to try to remain in control - which manifests through use of a word that is close to the sound/noise that we would otherwise instinctively come out with.
When we do lose control, our instincts take over and we don't verbalise the sounds (e.g. the scream etc).
Or something like that.
Yeah. Those non-verbal sounds come out as well on good days. :D
Sometimes, my wife more than me. Just curious why it comes out. The oh God part that is.
For the same reason someone else might say "Oh yes!". It has got nothing to do with God.
StrangerInAStrangeLa
12-13-08, 09:56 AM
I'm still wondering why we say oh God, oh God when we have sex.
Sometimes, my wife more than me. Just curious why it comes out. The oh God part that is.
Same works when people are in a very frightening situation. Human response mechanism to fear etc I guess.
You have a fear response when having sex with your wife???
1111
For the same reason someone else might say "Oh yes!". It has got nothing to do with God.
Of course. I just think it's funny that it comes out that way at all.
I've never had a woman say another man's name, that would not be cool, sure it happens though.
You have a fear response when having sex with your wife???
1111
Should have been more clear. I have been with women who have said it over and over. My wife does from time to time. I may have done it now and then without even realizing it.
But it was more a generalization as to why people say it at all. I just think it happens, I really am not putting any more weight to it than that. Which reminds me of a joke.
NO !, Stop !, No PLease !, No please don't stop !
At the height of the moment things come out, sounds that would be hard to duplicate otherwise.
I had a woman ask me once, because I play guitar.
Why do guys always look like they are about to orgasm when they play a lead ? Good question.
Agony and ecstasy are just a synapse away from each other, not even that much in masochists.
Hapsburg
12-14-08, 05:41 AM
Why can't God be part of a multi-verse and therefore reside in whichever one he pleases. This universe probably being one of the dumber ones to choose from!
This, I agree with in a way.
My view is that there are many gods, who are panentheistic. Meaning that, they exist both outside the multiple universes (between them, I suppose) in their natural states, and within the universe as nature itself and ambient energy.
Panentheism combines pantheism and the more conventional views of deity. It makes a lot of sense in the context of my religious beliefs, since the panentheistic philosophy of Hermeticism was a huge influence on Wicca's early development in the 1940's.
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