View Full Version : God makes you stupid, researchers claim
A psychology researcher has controversially claimed that stupidity is causally linked to how likely people are to believe in God.
University of Ulster professor Richard Lynn will draw the conclusion in new research due to be published in the journal Intelligence, the Times Higher Education Supplement reports.
Lynn and his two co-authors argue that average IQ is an excellent predictor of what proportion of the population are true believers, across 137 countries. They also cite surveys of the US Academy of Sciences and UK Royal Academy showing single-digit rates of religious belief among academics.
more ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/god_boffins/
Not that this surprises anyone.
I suppose if you say God is behind everything, you dont figure it out yourself.
alexb123
06-16-08, 03:55 PM
From my observations most religious people are either black or American so I would go along with these findings.
Prince_James
06-16-08, 08:03 PM
LOL^
James R is going to KEEL YOU.
mis-t-highs
06-17-08, 03:52 AM
I don't think it is a case of "God makes you stupid" it's more a case of people with lower intelligence are more likely to believe in fantasies, more gullible.
Religious people do themselves a disservice by not using there intellect to question there beliefs.
A Goddit scenario is not an answer, it's a cop out.
inzomnia
06-17-08, 04:41 AM
It could also be the case that people with higher intelligence are more arrogant
(if the intelligence is low, there is no reason to be arrogant). The arrogance
leads to the assumption that everything can be proven scientifically, and
when something can't be proven, it should be just denied, not allowing the
probability that probably they aren't capable enough to find prove...
inzomnia
06-17-08, 04:43 AM
There is a thin difference between denying and questioning.
It could also be the case that people with higher intelligence are more arrogant
(if the intelligence is low, there is no reason to be arrogant). The arrogance
leads to the assumption that everything can be proven scientifically, and
when something can't be proven, it should be just denied, not allowing the
probability that probably they aren't capable enough to find prove...
No.. religious people are way more arrogant with their sanctimonious "God loves me and not you" attitudes. Dont even go there.. cause theres an old saying that has to do with a pot and a kettle which I am sure you are very familiar with. They pretend to know what their God wants, and therefore believe they can judge God and its favor. Talk about arrogance.
inzomnia
06-17-08, 04:52 AM
No.. religious people are way more arrogant with their sanctimonious "God loves me and not you" attitudes. Dont even go there.. cause theres an old saying that has to do with a pot and a kettle which I am sure you are very familiar with. They pretend to know what their God wants, and therefore believe they can judge God and its favor. Talk about arrogance.
I don't think so. Religious is a fact that a person admit that there is something
higher and supreme. This is contra arrogance.
Non religious one has no fear, which is also a form of arrogance.
When people are truly religious, they will questioning God as well. In Islam at
least, there is a written order that Muslim should learn about God's creation
in order for them to understand the creator better. It is not said for them to
just believe blindly.
inzomnia
06-17-08, 05:36 AM
If I write down something on a paper, and leave the paper in a jungle, and people can't
find who has written or leave the paper there, does that mean I am not exist?
Or does the paper evolved from a decomposed wood because the paper and the wood
share similar character?
If I write down something on a paper, and leave the paper in a jungle, and people can't
find who has written or leave the paper there, does that mean I am not exist?
Or does the paper evolved from a decomposed wood because the paper and the wood
share similar character?
Well here's the problem with that arguement. If you believe God created everything then there's nothing I could show you that would convince you it's possible for a thing to come into existence without being created by an intelligent being. Even something we know happens on its own, like evolution, is the work of an intelligent being to you.
It sets up a line of circular reasoning. Everything is made by a creator because a creator must have made everything. How would you argue against this?
inzomnia
06-17-08, 05:58 AM
If you believe in evolution, can you answer my question against evolution here:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=82067
I don't think so. Religious is a fact that a person admit that there is something
higher and supreme. This is contra arrogance.
There is no fact here mate. You assume there to be a higher and supreme being, but you still dont take away from what I said... in which I stated that your sanctimonious "holier than thou art" attitudes are more arrogant. For instance, lets say you are a looney christian... your arrogance is your assumption that the whole Jesus Christ story is right, and the Muslims and the Jews got it wrong. Of if you are a Muslim, you think that Muhammed bloke is the best thing since sliced cheese and you get all "Im ganna burn shit" on people who disagree with you.
Can you see yet where I am going with this?
Non religious one has no fear, which is also a form of arrogance.
Chill on those lies mate. Seriously.. what you said is a fib. You are making shite up now.
When people are truly religious, they will questioning God as well. In Islam at
least, there is a written order that Muslim should learn about God's creation
in order for them to understand the creator better. It is not said for them to
just believe blindly.
So you have no faith?
If I write down something on a paper, and leave the paper in a jungle, and people can't
find who has written or leave the paper there, does that mean I am not exist?
Or does the paper evolved from a decomposed wood because the paper and the wood
share similar character?
You are making no sense now.
inzomnia
06-17-08, 06:08 AM
There is no fact here mate. You assume there to be a higher and supreme being, but you still dont take away from what I said... in which I stated that your sanctimonious "holier than thou art" attitudes are more arrogant. For instance, lets say you are a looney christian... your arrogance is your assumption that the whole Jesus Christ story is right, and the Muslims and the Jews got it wrong. Of if you are a Muslim, you think that Muhammed bloke is the best thing since sliced cheese and you get all "Im ganna burn shit" on people who disagree with you.
Can you see yet where I am going with this?
Or the atheists think the Muslims, Christians, Jews got it wrong. Your point?
Chill on those lies mate. Seriously.. what you said is a fib. You are making shite up now.
It's true. Non religious one has no fear. They close the probability that God
could probably exist and all its consequences.
So you have no faith?
I said, in Islam, people are told to learn the universe in order to understand
the existence of the Creator. Faith can't be insisted. It comes from learning.
You are making no sense now.
What, the paper analogy? How did I make no sense?
If you believe in evolution, can you answer my question against evolution here:
http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=82067
And you can answer my question. How would you counter your own arguement that everything is created if you can't use anything in existence as an example of something that's not created?
We should ask what kind of god they ask of existence
is a external creator christian god only?
also as mis-t-highs indicated, it is probably a causal link in the reverse order: stupid people are more likely to believe in god while the reverse is maybe not true.
Moreover, people with high IQ may prefer to hide their belief while they in fact believes in god. (we should launch a test to see correlation between habit of expressing belief and IQ)
So to conclude I wait for the publication with all the details before jumping on conclusion.
One more thing, this studies are also specific of a context. Where was it done? in all countries?
In the past (at least at some point) maybe the reverse was true (atheist got lower IQ). and what about the future?
inzomnia
06-17-08, 06:32 AM
And you can answer my question. How would you counter your own arguement that everything is created if you can't use anything in existence as an example of something that's not created?
Where did I say that everything is created? God is not created. The rest is
created by God. That is my opinion.
We should ask what kind of god they ask of existence
is a external creator christian god only?
also as mis-t-highs indicated, it is probably a causal link in the reverse order: stupid people are more likely to believe in god while the reverse is maybe not true.
Moreover, people with high IQ may prefer to hide their belief while they in fact believes in god. (we should launch a test to see correlation between habit of expressing belief and IQ)
So to conclude I wait for the publication with all the details before jumping on conclusion.
One more thing, this studies are also specific of a context. Where was it done? in all countries?
In the past (at least at some point) maybe the reverse was true (atheist got lower IQ). and what about the future?
Good point.
Where did I say that everything is created? God is not created. The rest is
created by God. That is my opinion.
You're skirting the question, so I'll assume you can't answer it.
more ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/god_boffins/
Not that this surprises anyone.
I suppose if you say God is behind everything, you dont figure it out yourself.
I'd say his results are to be expected, since everyone knows that there is a thin line between genius and madness.
Again, it usually boils down to indoctrination, being brought up to accept the irrational and improbable as fact. Gullibility is normal in this case. How in the hell is a mind supposed to use reason and rationale when that ability is wiped out from birth?
cosmictraveler
06-17-08, 12:28 PM
Stupid is as stupid does they say.
Stupid is as stupid does they say.
And intelligent is what? Having the ability to bomb more people in comfort?:rolleyes:
A high IQ score does not create a better human being.
iceaura
06-17-08, 02:18 PM
A high IQ score does not create a better human being. Neither does a low one.
Neither does a low one.
Sure, but you won't find any stupid people building atomic weapons.
Its why intelligence is selected against, I suppose. One can have too much of a "good" thing.
iceaura
06-17-08, 04:37 PM
Sure, but you won't find any stupid people building atomic weapons. And you won't find any smart people giving them to the Truman's of this world.
Stupid is as stupid does.
We appear to have a paradox.
And you won't find any smart people giving them to the Truman's of this world.
Assuming a high IQ circumvents social disconnect or dysfunction or autism or mental disease or low EQ or whatever it is that fuels an inability to realise that people funding atomic weaponry are capable of using them. So who is the "stupid" one here?
Syzygys
06-17-08, 06:43 PM
I already had a thread on this except my title was more polite...
iceaura
06-17-08, 07:24 PM
Assuming a high IQ circumvents social disconnect or dysfunction or autism or mental disease or low EQ or whatever it is that fuels an inability to realise that people funding atomic weaponry are capable of using them. So who is the "stupid" one here? I think the people who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima did evil.
I don't regard high IQ as much of an advantage in dealing honestly with theists.
I think the people who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima did evil.
I regard the ones who made teh bomb as incredibly evil. Same as I would any person who was caught putting one together in my neighborhood. I consider it reckless disregard for human life.
iceaura
06-17-08, 10:44 PM
I regard the ones who made teh bomb as incredibly evil. Same as I would any person who was caught putting one together in my neighborhood. I consider it reckless disregard for human life. Not the lives on their side of the war.
Not the lives on their side of the war.
Oh, their weapons can distinguish people by color, race and nationality?
Vkothii
06-18-08, 01:18 AM
The survey referenced in the OP should actually say: "Religion makes you stupid".
They make the initial (not insignificant) error of equating religious belief with "belief in God".
I don't believe in God (I'm not especially religious - I suppose I might be "pan-religious", but I don't as a rule have any faith in the stuff - he he), for the simple reason that I believe I am God (I was praying once, and suddenly realised I was just talking to myself!).
If someone asks me: "do you believe in God?", my answer is kind of - "well, yes, I certainly believe in myself, to the extent I can".
CutsieMarie89
06-18-08, 01:40 AM
I don't really believe in the IQ test as a great measure of one's intelligence, but I think some people here have already stated what I believe. Perhaps people with a "lower IQ" question ideals less (such as that old guy who is a virgin and raises goats) than someone with a "higher IQ". I've noticed that the people I went to school with who started out very devout (whatever their religions were) and by the time graduation came around they had all become, with exception of one, either non practicing or atheists to some degree. I think studying science tends to do that to a lot of people.
No.. religious people are way more arrogant with their sanctimonious "God loves me and not you" attitudes. Dont even go there.. cause theres an old saying that has to do with a pot and a kettle which I am sure you are very familiar with. They pretend to know what their God wants, and therefore believe they can judge God and its favor. Talk about arrogance.
Unfortunately, this is true all too often. It's not that Christianity itself is arrogant. The opposite is true. But far too many Christians act hypocritically and arrogant. Of course, it's very human (not just Christian) to judge people.
I think the people who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima did evil.
It was a necessary evil.
lepustimidus
06-18-08, 09:00 AM
What's evil about bombing one's enemies? I think it's fantastic, to be honest. The Americans should have dropped way more than just two nukes. But that's the problem with the West, they never finish what they start.
Stupid people are the basis to allow smart people to commit evil. A good example of this would be the middle east (With Allah and Yaweh doing penis size comparisons).. or in my own country... where the ruling party has its power through the lesser intelligent rural and poor vote. Same applies for whats happening. Mugabe gets his power from the rural areas which is why its hard to travel between cities and rural populations in Zimbabwe.
The less you know, the quicker you obey.
So clearly, its not more smart people that we need, eh?
I would just like less hypocrisy
So would I. The paper in the OP is a good example. Does the author think blacks are stupider than whites, as well? Based on the same criterion? Is he a proponent of the Bell Curve?
more ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/god_boffins/
Not that this surprises anyone.
I suppose if you say God is behind everything, you dont figure it out yourself.
Two words for you, wizard:
Residual variance.
iceaura
06-18-08, 03:36 PM
I think the people who dropped the bomb on Hiroshima did evil.
”
It was a necessary evil. The truly necessary is never evil. That's why the claim of necessity comes in handy, afterwards.
So clearly, its not more smart people that we need, eh? You have to be careful killing them, though. They tend to balance each other, and when you get down to the last few those few no longer have much check on them.
And they've noticed that themselves.
They're like an appendix - you'd like to get rid of it altogether, but shrinking it any more without getting rid of it is dangerous.
Biology takes care of their numbers very well I think. One has only to look around to see that.
I regard the ones who made teh bomb as incredibly evil.
The nuclear bomb and the nuclear power station are two sides of the same coin. We'll be thankful for the latter when fossil fuels run out.
So clearly, its not more smart people that we need, eh?
The idea that everyone is either stupid or evil is silly. I'm both!
Leo Volont
07-06-08, 05:15 AM
Again, this research is not comparing Mental Accuity... taking groups of people with exactly the same levels of Education. This study is taking people who were educated by Secularist Schools and those who were educated in no schools whatsoever.
The people educated in Secularist Schools were able to test better than people who were not taught to read or write. However, these oppressed and victimized peoples were Religious. Surprise, surprise.
so the Study is telling us that the Oppressors who are able to strip the masses from access to education are more intelligent then those they have victimized. Yeah, and Darwin told us that killer animals are superior to those that are killed.
Hmmmm. We have Atheists victimizing Religious People. We don't have Religious People victimizing Atheists. Intelligence is being correlated with the propensity to cause others to suffer. Only in England!
Maybe they should be testing Moral Intelligence
more ... http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/06/12/god_boffins/
Not that this surprises anyone.
I suppose if you say God is behind everything, you dont figure it out yourself.
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