Science is Garbage (read 1st post then vote)

[Diode-Man]

I've decided that science cannot explain everything, and as such, science is merely a way for us humans to attempt to control our environment around us.

Scientists think they can explain joy. No scientist out there can actually prove any theory that tries to explain joy. In fact, I would go as far to say that self awareness is in-fact "magic" which cannot be explained away by any godless scientist. They will try to tell you that its all just brain chemicals, and that you're pretty much just a complex "bio-robot." That is the most dull outlook on life to have ever hit humanity in the face!!! Those scientists lead gray and boring lives. They have no "magic" in their lives because they refuse to see it, in order to promote their careers towards higher pay, greater laziness and intensified close-mindedness... LOL

Perhaps there is a computer out there which is programmed to make "pleasurable music" but I tell you this, no computer will ever be able to enjoy music. Artificial Intelligence is a physical impossibility. Knowledge cannot be mixed with feeling by human hands, and any knowledge that cannot feel, such as your computer, is therefore a "Dead Zoo."

[CutsieMarie89]

No science can not explain everything, it is merely an attempt that humans have made to help them better understand the world around them. Humans are curious and inquistive by nature. I can't say that religion is much better though. It is the exact same thing as science in my book, an attempt to understand the world around us. Science can only test the observable, so where science stops faith begins. Its sad when scientist become so engrossed in science that it becomes like a religion to them. They have forgotten what science is really all about, which is discovery not trying to prove everybody else wrong.

[Asguard]

science doesnt claim to be able to explaine everything, quite the oposite. Science is a method to protect us from being "conned" by the cleaver missdirect of natures issiunists

[Diode-Man]

I get the implied idea, from the way science is presented, that one day "humans will be able to explain everything with all of these unbreakable scientific laws we've established." And I propose that joy is one of those things that can never be explained with science and the same goes for consciousness/selfawareness itself.

I recall that sometime in the seventeenth or eighteenth century, the British made a volume of books which proposed that all of humanities inventions had already been invented, that all scientific knowledge that could be discovered, had been discovered already and put inside that funny little set of books.

I'm sure God had a good laugh when that happened.

[CutsieMarie89]

I get the implied idea, from the way science is presented, that one day "humans will be able to explain everything with all of these unbreakable scientific laws we've established." And I propose that joy is one of those things that can never be explained with science and the same goes for consciousness/selfawareness itself.

I recall that sometime in the seventeenth or eighteenth century, the British made a volume of books which proposed that all of humanities inventions had already been invented, that all scientific knowledge that could be discovered, had been discovered already and put inside that funny little set of books.

That's terrible and I think an insult to science. The day that science has explained everything would be a very very sad day indeed, not that that day will ever come. Wonder and discovery is what makes science so great. At least that is why I love it.

[Diode-Man]

If one cannot explain joy/self-awareness with science (which cannot be done) then one cannot truly explain anything and we can only understand the direct affects of life through experiencing it, and never HOW it happens just THAT it happens. Life is good! (I believe life is destined choice, the only contradiction of reality that isn't contradictory, since no mathematical equation can be created to predict what an artist will create, but that something does get created affected by the personality and surroundings + spiritual energy of, into, and out of the artist/soul)

[CutsieMarie89]

But if you never ask questions then you never learn anything.

[Diode-Man]

Naturally... however, learning comes before and after questions

[Asguard]

umm it depends on which branch of science you want to relie i guess. if your asking can nero science explaine joy then they would go into the pleasure centers of the brain and say that stimulation of there area's elicits and euforic sensation.

If you ask a psycologist on the other hand you will get an explanation which relates to how cognitive thinking and enviromental factors influance mood.

So i guess its down to how you want to look at it. your right that for the moment we cant fully conect neroscience to psycology though

[siledre]

If you need someone to explain joy or any other emotion then you're missing some larger points in life.

[Read-Only]

I get the implied idea, from the way science is presented, that one day "humans will be able to explain everything with all of these unbreakable scientific laws we've established." And I propose that joy is one of those things that can never be explained with science and the same goes for consciousness/selfawareness itself.


Pardon my being so direct and blunt - but that's about THE stupidest thing I've ever heard anyone say!!!!

Science does not claim to have all the answers and only the dullest minds alive would expect it to EVER have them all. That's just plain, uneducated infantile thinking!

Without science, we would not be able to feed as many people as we do, most would still die by their mid-20s - disease and pestilence would run rampant across the whole world! And there are far, FAR to many more things to list here - THOUSANDS of them.

Once you get over whatever it was you just smoked or the drug you took, perhaps you might want to come back with some STRONG rethinking about what you just said. (I could easily say more about your obvious lack of mental abilities but it would get me banned permanently.)

[PsychoticEpisode]

I've decided that science cannot explain everything,

Science explains joy in the same fashion it explains someone's an idiot.

[Yorda]

Science is not just garbage, it's also a piece of trash.

[Diode-Man]

I don't think neurologists or psychologists can explain why artists find joy in creating.

Why does the artist create? Because he likes to create. Why does he like to create? Perhaps we should just have some faith that he likes to create... because he just likes to, perhaps that is then a piece of God inside? Hmmmm

[Diode-Man]

Read-Only: It doesn't take a Sherlock to see that understanding how things work can get you a really fat ego, so fat that the existence of an eternal God becomes an impossibility in that mind.

Read-Only, once you get over your tremendously fat ego, please return to the religion threads and reconsider.

[Asguard]

that is the provance of psycology for the moment. The difference being that nerology deals with the brain and nero system as it apears from the outside where as psycology deals with the "Me". Maybe in the future nerology will be able to explaine the "Me" and the two will fuse, maybe not. Who knows what will happen in the future

[Diode-Man]

I believe that the "me" can only be explained by "The God"

[Yorda]

Science tries to explain things with things like "Quantum Mechanics". But who knows what that is? I don't. And I know a lot about science: http://www.sciforums.com/showpost.php?p=1897517&postcount=13

Why does the artist create? Because he likes to create. Why does he like to create?

"Religion answers why, science answers how." Goddidit -- science answers how.

Perhaps we should just have some faith that he likes to create... because he just likes to, perhaps that is then a piece of God inside? Hmmmm

Yeah, but are you sure that God is not just a piece of garbage too?

[Diode-Man]

Science tries to explain things with things like "Quantum Mechanics". But who knows what that is? I don't. And I know a lot about.

"Religion answers why, science answers how." Goddidit -- science answers how.

Yeah, but are you sure that God is not just a piece of garbage too?

Well, I believe each person to be a piece of the God-Force, definitely not garbage, to the contrary, quite recyclable. :rolleyes: :D

***Running out of brain juices***

[spidergoat]

The explanations of science were never intended to rob us of the joy and wonder of life, just read anything by Carl Sagan, this was a favorite subject of his. Indeed, science reveals more to be captivated by than we could even know without it.

Joy is an evolved trait necessary to the health of a living being, Epicurus described that centuries ago. No creature could survive in a perpetual state of pain and depression. Evolution leads to life that is suited to it's surroundings, pleasure guides it to do the beneficial thing, mostly reproduce.

Self awareness is information, but that fact is not intended to take the joy out of life. If your joy is to be found in ignorance, it is not very well grounded to begin with.

[Prince_James]

If the mind has aspects which are non-physical, or is entirely non-physical, then by the current definition of science, science cannot treat it.

As a dualist ambigiously between property and substance dualism, I thus permit science, as understood, to be a limited field of inquiry.

[Asguard]

actually the mind is concidered to be an emergent property which is why science has trouble understanding how it works. It has nothing to do with being special at all, its just a complex system like the weather or the solor system.

If we take the solor system baring major changes (like mars slingshoting into earth:p) there comes a point where we cant predict what the system as a whole will look like with any acuracy. This is part of the chaos theory. For the weather its a couple of days, for the solor system its a few million years (i think) but there comes a point where predictions become impossable with current technology and science. The brain is no different, its just another complex system and there for subject to the rules of chaos and emergence. The only difference is that with the brain we have another way in and thats through the "mind" or more acuratly, the person who your talking to. They can tell you what its like from the inside rather than just whats happerning from the outside. This is why psycology and neroscience are not mutually exslusive

[John99]

Joy is an evolved trait necessary to the health of a living being, Epicurus described that centuries ago. No creature could survive in a perpetual state of pain and depression. Evolution leads to life that is suited to it's surroundings, pleasure guides it to do the beneficial thing, mostly reproduce.

Spidergoat, does a rat feel JOY?...Does an Eagle? You must be obswerving contentment. In fact where have you observed joy in non human creatures?

ok, a doggie.:)

No creature could survive in a perpetual state of pain and depression

And this would be present without joy?

[Jozen-Bo]

I've decided that science cannot explain everything, and as such, science is merely a way for us humans to attempt to control our environment around us.

Scientists think they can explain joy. No scientist out there can actually prove any theory that tries to explain joy. In fact, I would go as far to say that self awareness is in-fact "magic" which cannot be explained away by any godless scientist. They will try to tell you that its all just brain chemicals, and that you're pretty much just a complex "bio-robot." That is the most dull outlook on life to have ever hit humanity in the face!!! Those scientists lead gray and boring lives. They have no "magic" in their lives because they refuse to see it, in order to promote their careers towards higher pay, greater laziness and intensified close-mindedness... LOL

Perhaps there is a computer out there which is programmed to make "pleasurable music" but I tell you this, no computer will ever be able to enjoy music. Artificial Intelligence is a physical impossibility. Knowledge cannot be mixed with feeling by human hands, and any knowledge that cannot feel, such as your computer, is therefore a "Dead Zoo."

:bravo::bravo::bravo:

[Asguard]

actually my dog is very happy when we play with her
even my partners guinie pigs get happy

If i had an ECG i could even prove that and show there moods definitivly

[Prince_James]

Asguard:

actually the mind is concidered to be an emergent property which is why science has trouble understanding how it works. It has nothing to do with being special at all, its just a complex system like the weather or the solor system.

THe problem is the mind could have non-physical emergent properties. In fact, it does have those properties, but it is up in the air if it is emergent or not.

If we take the solor system baring major changes (like mars slingshoting into earth) there comes a point where we cant predict what the system as a whole will look like with any acuracy. This is part of the chaos theory. For the weather its a couple of days, for the solor system its a few million years (i think) but there comes a point where predictions become impossable with current technology and science. The brain is no different, its just another complex system and there for subject to the rules of chaos and emergence. The only difference is that with the brain we have another way in and thats through the "mind" or more acuratly, the person who your talking to. They can tell you what its like from the inside rather than just whats happerning from the outside. This is why psycology and neroscience are not mutually exslusive

No, the solar system is predictable, as the laws are inviolate.

[John99]

actually my dog is very happy when we play with her
even my partners guinie pigs get happy

If i had an ECG i could even prove that and show there moods definitivly

I said a rat and an eagle. Not pets. Under what circumstances would a wild rat feel joy? I bet even giving birth would not produce this emotion.

[Asguard]

what about dolphins?

and i sugest you check that again, we dont even know what side of the sun the earth will be on if you go that far out

[Prince_James]

Asguard:

and i sugest you check that again, we dont even know what side of the sun the earth will be on if you go that far out

Yeha we do. We have perfect calculations.

[Prince_James]

John99:

I said a rat and an eagle. Not pets. Under what circumstances would a wild rat feel joy? I bet even giving birth would not produce this emotion.

Getting laid.

Finding an especially delicious morsel of food - or finding food after nearly starving to death.

[Asguard]

i will have to go check the book i was reading that in again to give you a reference

[Vkothii]

The first option in this poll is a logical contradiction. It says we use garbage - that's refuse, ordure, waste; you know, that stuff - to control our environment.
It appears to assume the responder knows what "control the environment" is supposed to mean, but WTF does it mean? Does anyone know?

The second option appears to be similarly ass-about-face. (pun intended)

[John99]

I dont know about dolphins. Dogs do seem to show something closer to joy but it can be a mixture of excitement and contentment.

Facial exporessions are alos non existant. Can a living creature feel joy with no corresponding facial expression?

[Read-Only]

Read-Only: It doesn't take a Sherlock to see that understanding how things work can get you a really fat ego, so fat that the existence of an eternal God becomes an impossibility in that mind.

Read-Only, once you get over your tremendously fat ego, please return to the religion threads and reconsider.

Once again, you have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about!!

I have no problem with ego at all and am a firm believer in God. I also believe he gave us a brain that enabled us to learn and better understand how to care for ourselves and others. AND the most direct path to that is called SCIENCE!!!!

So once you get over YOUR fat ego problem and realize that you are in no position that allows you to presume what others think then, and only then, will I raise my opinion of you to a higher level than a nincompoop.

[Randwolf]

But if you never ask questions then you never learn anything.

I think I'm falling in love with you, Cutsie... :p

Mother, what do you propose as an alternative to "science" here?

[Enterprise-D]

I've decided that religion cannot explain everything, and as such, is merely a way for some humans to attempt to control the rest of us.

Theists (especially fundamentalists) think they can explain joy. No theist out there can actually prove any of their theories that tries to explain joy. In fact, I would go as far to say that self awareness is an axiom which need not be explained by anyone; however some folks need to cling to cartoonland - requiring a more sensationalist explanation to be happy. They will try to tell you that its more than just brain chemicals and perceptions, and that you're pretty much just a complex "bio-puppet" on the strings of some cosmic thespian. That is the most deluded outlook on life to have ever hit humanity in the face!!! Those theists lead some quite fake lives. They must have "magic" in their lives because they refuse to interact with reality, in order to foist their own beliefs onto others that have accepted that morality and happiness are their own responsibility; ironically accusing the more acclimated humans of being lazy, while refusing to accept their own intellectual charge of destiny.

Perhaps there are currently unexplainable phenomena out there...but I'll say this, science as an organization, and indeed natural human curiosity will not leave them in mystery forever. I will stop there, because the original post zips among different targets of human advancement to downcry in favour of its own religious bias, and I prefer to end with a smooth flow.

[GeoffP]

Colourless gray empty lives??

Oh wait: I do have one of those. Huh.

[Cazzo]

I've decided that science cannot explain everything, and as such, science is merely a way for us humans to attempt to control our environment around us.


I think "understanding" our environment would be a more accurate statement.

[spidergoat]

Spidergoat, does a rat feel JOY?...Does an Eagle? You must be obswerving contentment. In fact where have you observed joy in non human creatures?

ok, a doggie.:)

No creature could survive in a perpetual state of pain and depression

And this would be present without joy?

Joy is the absense of discomfort. Rats have been known to self-administer opiates and drugs, so we know they can feel this kind of pleasure. They certainly have sex alot, and if it weren't pleasurable, they wouldn't do it.

If the mind has aspects which are non-physical, or is entirely non-physical, then by the current definition of science, science cannot treat it.

As a dualist ambigiously between property and substance dualism, I thus permit science, as understood, to be a limited field of inquiry.

How could you find out if there were anything non-physical without the methods of science? Nothing is beyond scientific investigation. There is also no definition of science.

I dont know about dolphins. Dogs do seem to show something closer to joy but it can be a mixture of excitement and contentment.

Facial exporessions are alos non existant. Can a living creature feel joy with no corresponding facial expression?

Facial expressions are for primates. Animals of other kinds use body language.

[CharonZ]

Spidergoat, does a rat feel JOY?...Does an Eagle? You must be obswerving contentment. In fact where have you observed joy in non human creatures?


Why, yes. In the simplest case by observing the activity of brain regions associated with joy in the limbic system.

[CutsieMarie89]

I said a rat and an eagle. Not pets. Under what circumstances would a wild rat feel joy? I bet even giving birth would not produce this emotion.

They sure do, at least what seems like joy. Most of the animals I have had the pleasure of working with rats, sharks, rabbits. They get so excited when they see someone they care about like when perhaps the caretaker or family members of theirs. Humans are different, but I don't think we're special. I think its sort of conceited to think that we are the only ones who feel love, happiness, pain, and grief.

[scorpius]

I believe that the "me" can only be explained by "The God"
oh yeah,
which one
www.godchecker.com :D

[Asguard]

afrodiaty:p
she is the only one who seems to be getting enough sex to funtion normally:p

[scorpius]

Why does the artist create? Because he likes to create. Why does he like to create? Perhaps we should just have some faith that he likes to create... because he just likes to, perhaps that is then a piece of God inside? Hmmmm
perhaps its just craving for fame and money..hmmmm ;)

no need for faith at all,silly.