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View Full Version : Is humanity falling behind in space colonization ?


Cazzo
06-15-08, 03:15 PM
Back in the 1950s and 60s, scientists and others were predicting we'd be colonizing the Moon and even Mars by now, with ordinary civilians living in large spacecraft.
But since governments haven't been willing or able to fund these steps to move humanity forward, we are where we are now.

Likewise, in the robotic and land based astronomy, we could have sent many more space probes to examine other solar system objects in greater detail. Land based astronomy has the know-how to build huge telescopes and interferometers to image planets around other stars, where we could learn MUCH more about the nature of planets, and possibly find other life forms.
But since governments haven't been willing or able to fund this, we are where we are now.

Do you think more, less, or the same should be done ?

mathman
06-15-08, 04:33 PM
What's the rush??? I believe that there are a lot more pressing problems on earth (global warming, energy resource shortage, food shortage) that need to be addressed within the next 25 to 50 years. Space exploration can wait.

cosmictraveler
06-15-08, 04:57 PM
Here's the problem...cosmic radiation. Scientists never knew how much actual radiation was out there in the 50's and 60's so they could say anything because there were no facts to hold them back. After careful studies humans have learned that radiation is a very copious thing in space away from the Earths magnetosphere and can KILL HUMANS very quickly or slowly depending upon which type hits the humans. Would you be willing to travel to the moon and stay there knowing you are going to get radiation poisoning all the time you were there? A few weeks spent on the moon isn't to bad but staying there months will be very, VERY dangerous without proper protection which they are trying to develop now. Patience is a very key word, so that safety is taken at every step to insure humans wellbeing. :)

draqon
06-16-08, 07:06 AM
Yes we are def. behind were we should be in space exploration. Since we have the chance to access space, we must do everything in our power to allow human civilization to exist elsewere in the universe.

Enmos
06-16-08, 07:23 AM
Yes we are def. behind were we should be in space exploration. Since we have the chance to access space, we must do everything in our power to allow human civilization to exist elsewere in the universe.

In comparison to who ? :confused:

draqon
06-16-08, 07:28 AM
In comparison to who ? :confused:

In comparison to what we done 60 years ago. To our ability to be in space.

Enmos
06-16-08, 07:33 AM
In comparison to what we done 60 years ago. To our ability to be in space.

Maybe it's normal for space exploration to not go in a straight line. We don't know..
We only have ourselves, we don't have anyone to compare our progress with.

draqon
06-16-08, 07:36 AM
Maybe it's normal for space exploration to not go in a straight line. We don't know..
We only have ourselves, we don't have anyone to compare our progress with.

We can compare ourselves to the best of our abilities. And it is imperative that we exapand to space as fast as we can.

Enmos
06-16-08, 07:40 AM
We can compare ourselves to the best of our abilities. And it is imperative that we exapand to space as fast as we can.

We have no comparison material !

It's like living alone on an island and thinking you are falling behind on exploring the sea.
Even if there are other islands with a single human living on it, you have know way of knowing how far they have progressed exploring the sea.

draqon
06-16-08, 07:43 AM
We have no comparison material !

It's like living alone on an island and thinking you are falling behind on exploring the sea.
Even if there are other islands with a single human living on it, you have know way of knowing how far they have progressed exploring the sea.

If I was living on an island alone I would be always thinking that I am falling behind. I would think of what I would have done more a week ago like find more food, build a bigger shelter, build a canoe...I would think about it and improve my week in future...and then in future I would again think I am falling behind and do more...and more...and more...

Enmos
06-16-08, 07:45 AM
If I was living on an island alone I would be always thinking that I am falling behind. I would think of what I would have done more a week ago like find more food, build a bigger shelter, build a canoe...I would think about it and improve my week in future...and then in future I would again think I am falling behind and do more...and more...and more...

Thinking you are falling behind is not the same as actually falling behind.
Actually, since there is no evidence whatsoever, you can only believe you are falling behind. BASED ON NOTHING.

draqon
06-16-08, 07:50 AM
Thinking you are falling behind is not the same as actually falling behind.
Actually, since there is no evidence whatsoever, you can only believe you are falling behind. BASED ON NOTHING.

We are always falling behind.

Simon Anders
06-16-08, 09:26 AM
If I was living on an island alone I would be always thinking that I am falling behind. I would think of what I would have done more a week ago like find more food, build a bigger shelter, build a canoe...I would think about it and improve my week in future...and then in future I would again think I am falling behind and do more...and more...and more...I think the panic you are describing is something that needs to be looked at, felt and worked with rather than using it as the driving force for unbelievable expensive endeavors. People with real power use our feelings of fear and panic to push through things that are not necessarily for our benefit.

Simon Anders
06-16-08, 09:28 AM
We are always falling behind. Or we are always moving ahead.
It sounds like you are comparing human civilization as a whole (somehow) and comparing it to some hypothetical human civilization that is perfect. if you were doing this kind of thing in relation to yourself - comparing yourself with some hypothetical perfect self - and finding yourself wanting, this would be a combination of self-hatred and anxiety.

cosmictraveler
06-16-08, 09:29 AM
As over half of the Earths population lives in poverty, has no potable water, not much food, no electricity and no medical aid. So humans strive to leap away from Earth but are forgetting their own problems here as they do. Pollution, violence and illnesses are becoming more prevalent as a few people push to get away from Earth. We should be helping here on Earth more before we launch ourselves into another world or we will just have the same problems there as well.

Syzygys
06-16-08, 09:31 AM
Since we have the chance to access space, we must do everything in our power to allow human civilization to exist elsewere in the universe.

Why? Why not go underwater, which is more accessable and cheaper?

Until we solve our energy problems, the space can wait...

I am perfectly happy with roads without potholes and full employments for the people before we waste money, time and energy on trying to occupy godforsaken lands....

Simon Anders
06-16-08, 09:35 AM
As over half of the Earths population lives in poverty, has no potable water, not much food, no electricity and no medical aid. So humans strive to leap away from Earth but are forgetting their own problems here as they do. Pollution, violence and illnesses are becoming more prevalent as a few people push to get away from Earth. We should be helping here on Earth more before we launch ourselves into another world or we will just have the same problems there as well.
If parents heard from their child that they had made a mess of their room and were asking for a new room, they would be foolish to merely give in. Responsible parents would encourage their child to clean up their room and learn not to destroy it. Hell, even selfish parents would. I find it amazing how behavior we would never accept in a child suddenly becomes 'good problem solving' on societal levels'. (and in case it wasn't clear, I am agreeing with you CT)

lucifers angel
06-16-08, 10:52 AM
What's the rush??? I believe that there are a lot more pressing problems on earth (global warming, energy resource shortage, food shortage) that need to be addressed within the next 25 to 50 years. Space exploration can wait.

exactly, perhaps we should, concentrate on matters more pressing first, like, homelessness, world hunger, crime rates, global warming and Chavs!!

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:03 AM
Or we are always moving ahead.
It sounds like you are comparing human civilization as a whole (somehow) and comparing it to some hypothetical human civilization that is perfect. if you were doing this kind of thing in relation to yourself - comparing yourself with some hypothetical perfect self - and finding yourself wanting, this would be a combination of self-hatred and anxiety.

Yes. That's exactly what he's doing.
What's (obviously) is even worse is that this hypothetical perfect civilization and self are his personal interpretations, not some universal standard.
Needless to say a universal standard does not exist.
Any adherence to such a personal concept of perfection and its extrapolation to others and, worse, the whole is dangerous.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:05 AM
Why? Why not go underwater, which is more accessable and cheaper?

Until we solve our energy problems, the space can wait...

I am perfectly happy with roads without potholes and full employments for the people before we waste money, time and energy on trying to occupy godforsaken lands....

you are happy...I am not happy...

If a meteorite obliterates the planet...the ocean will not be enough to sustain ourselves since it is a limited resource. Meanwhile space is virtually limitless.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:06 AM
Or we are always moving ahead.
It sounds like you are comparing human civilization as a whole (somehow) and comparing it to some hypothetical human civilization that is perfect. if you were doing this kind of thing in relation to yourself - comparing yourself with some hypothetical perfect self - and finding yourself wanting, this would be a combination of self-hatred and anxiety.

not at all...It would a civilization that strives to become better in every aspect.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:08 AM
If a meteorite obliterates the planet...

Oh, what a happy day that would be :D

/dream

draqon
06-16-08, 11:10 AM
Oh, what a happy day that would be :D

/dream

We are on opposites sides of a war, Enmos.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:13 AM
We are on opposites sides of a war, Enmos.

Are you proud of your position ? Think about it..

draqon
06-16-08, 11:17 AM
Are you proud of your position ? Think about it..

Yes I am.

Expand, conquer, and rule!

I am a citizen of Russian Federation and human of planet Earth set to live and leave a mark on the Universe.

I have a duty to expand and conquer all space for the sake of my species existence.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:20 AM
Yes I am.

Expand, conquer, and rule!

I am a citizen of Russian Federation and human of planet Earth set to live and leave a mark on the Universe.

I have a duty to expand and conquer all space for the sake of my species existence.

I said THINK about, I didn't say regurgitate some sort of misplaced imperial sentiment.
Fine, go into space and don't you try to come back..

draqon
06-16-08, 11:21 AM
I said THINK about, I didn't say regurgitate some sort of misplaced imperial sentiment.
Fine, go into space and don't you try and come back..

Oh I will come back and Earth will be primary existing location of the human species locations.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:23 AM
Oh I will come back and Earth will be primary existing location of the human species locations.

We will shoot you out of the sky :D

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:25 AM
Draqon, for the sake of clarity, what war were you talking about ?

draqon
06-16-08, 11:25 AM
We will shoot you out of the sky :D

you...not "we".

Because we pertains to the human society which strives to EXIST.

You on the other hand are just a suicido-anarchical-zoophilist.

orcot
06-16-08, 11:26 AM
If a meteorite obliterates the planet...the ocean will not be enough to sustain ourselves since it is a limited resource. Meanwhile space is virtually limitless.

Draqon you would like this story (http://www.multivax.com/last_question.html)
Anyway space is going nowhere.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:26 AM
Draqon, for the sake of clarity, what war were you talking about ?

The war between Death and Life.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:29 AM
you...not "we".

Because we pertains to the human society which strives to EXIST.

You on the other hand are just a suicido-anarchical-zoophilist.

No, you are the 'suicido'..
Anarchical ? Perhaps.. not sure.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:30 AM
The war between Death and Life.

Realize you are on the side of death.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:34 AM
Realize you are on the side of death.

No you realize you are on a side of death. You want to kill all the humans = side of death

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:36 AM
No you realize you are on a side of death. You want to kill all the humans = side of death

You advocate the death of every living creature on earth, except humans.

In consequence condemning humanity to the same fate.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:38 AM
You advocate the death of every living creature on earth, except humans.

NO I DO NOT.
I advocate that humans expand to the rest of the universe as fast as we can. I never said we got to kill all the creatures other then our own as we expand.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:40 AM
NO I DO NOT.
I advocate that humans expand to the rest of the universe as fast as we can. I never said we got to kill all the creatures other then our own as we expand.

You advocate the expansion and welfare of humans on earth as well, the death of all other creatures is a unavoidable consequence.

Xelios
06-16-08, 11:42 AM
As over half of the Earths population lives in poverty, has no potable water, not much food, no electricity and no medical aid. So humans strive to leap away from Earth but are forgetting their own problems here as they do. Pollution, violence and illnesses are becoming more prevalent as a few people push to get away from Earth. We should be helping here on Earth more before we launch ourselves into another world or we will just have the same problems there as well.
That's a good point, but on the other hand research into space exploration leads to a lot of new technologies that we could use to better life here on Earth.

I think if we want to be upset about wasted money we should be upset about how much is spent on military. I'd rather see them take money away from that.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:44 AM
You advocate the expansion and welfare of humans on earth as well, the death of all other creatures is a unavoidable consequence.

you can't just assume that. If other creatures can't adopt, its their problem. However we will protect them to our best interest, simply because we know that a wider array of species in which we exist allows greater survival rates for our own species.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:47 AM
you can't just assume that. If other creatures can't adopt, its their problem.
This is what I'm talking about. That is dumb, Draqon..

However we will protect them to our best interest, simply because we know that a wider array of species in which we exist allows greater survival rates for our own species.
When ?
Dude we can't do it.. there are too many of us.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:51 AM
This is what I'm talking about. That is dumb, Draqon..


When ?
Dude we can't do it.. there are too many of us.

Yes we can, have the animals DNA in our database. The universe is virtually limitless, have the animals live anywhere we wish alongside with us.

draqon
06-16-08, 11:53 AM
And...there are never too many of us.

Enmos
06-16-08, 11:54 AM
Oh FFS.. nevermind.

orcot
06-16-08, 12:03 PM
please draqon tell me your joking

Enmos
06-16-08, 12:04 PM
please draqon tell me your joking

Sadly, he isn't..

Cazzo
06-16-08, 04:07 PM
Thinking you are falling behind is not the same as actually falling behind.
Actually, since there is no evidence whatsoever, you can only believe you are falling behind. BASED ON NOTHING.

Not necessarily. You could be falling behind on predicted (doable) timelines.

Enmos
06-16-08, 04:47 PM
Not necessarily. You could be falling behind on predicted (doable) timelines.

Then you're just being lazy.. lol

MR. Champagne
06-17-08, 12:44 AM
i think the only way for our current infinite horizon economic model to not grind into a massive conflict is if we keep expanding humanities horizon of influence into the great beyond.

we certainly cannot keep our current trend of population growth and economic expansion the way we are here on earth.

cosmictraveler
06-17-08, 05:57 AM
Meanwhile space is virtually limitless.

But very empty, devoid of oxygen and full of radiation.

Enmos
06-17-08, 07:21 AM
i think the only way for our current infinite horizon economic model to not grind into a massive conflict is if we keep expanding humanities horizon of influence into the great beyond.

we certainly cannot keep our current trend of population growth and economic expansion the way we are here on earth.

The solution: http://www.vhemt.org/

draqon
06-17-08, 11:33 AM
But very empty, devoid of oxygen and full of radiation.

Oh please...its full enough to be classified as limitless, the amount of oxygen there is, is limitless...just got to find it.

USS Athens
06-18-08, 02:11 AM
Back in the 1950s and 60s, scientists and others were predicting we'd be colonizing the Moon and even Mars by now, with ordinary civilians living in large spacecraft.
But since governments haven't been willing or able to fund these steps to move humanity forward, we are where we are now.

Likewise, in the robotic and land based astronomy, we could have sent many more space probes to examine other solar system objects in greater detail. Land based astronomy has the know-how to build huge telescopes and interferometers to image planets around other stars, where we could learn MUCH more about the nature of planets, and possibly find other life forms.
But since governments haven't been willing or able to fund this, we are where we are now.

Do you think more, less, or the same should be done ?

This step back on human progression enrages me beyond sanity. From what I know about what people think about space exploration here in the USA, I have learned that many average citizens do not support NASA (or any other governmental space administration). More disturbing however is that most of the people I have asked said that they hated NASA altogether and should be disbanded.

Is that really what modern day people think about the exploration of space? They think not to better humanity but to continue on with their routinely lives? Is this the destiny of humanity itself? To wither away as a civilization and have accomplished nothing? I hope not...