The Holy Bible vs the Koran

[Linda7777]

So why do Muslims think the Koran is the word of God when it basically borrows from the Holy Bible?
It also teaches that God doesn't have a Son.
How could Muslims think they could get Christians to believe their Koran and not the blessed Holy Bible?
The Torah was given to us about 2500 years before Muhammed was even born, so why would I think I should believe the Koran later and not Holy Bible before?
We're talking the Ten Commandments here! The Prophets, the Psalms, Proverbs, the history of the world, the birth of Christ, his death, his resurrection, his ascension...the acts of the apostles, the epistles, the future of the world, Revelation of Jesus Christ book by John.
It is a complete record of everything called reality.

Why do Muslims think the Koran could compete with the Book?
(I recently got a Koran)
I hear some say they believe the Bible is corrupted.
How can the Ten Commandments be corrupted?
Not possible.
They teach that Jesus wasn't crucified.
Where do Muslims come up with this stuff written millenniums after Sinai?
How can they expect it to be believed?
If there is a Muslim on board, maybe he would like to present his belief.
Just wondering.......

[Yorda]

It also teaches that God doesn't have a Son.

According to the Bible, God doesn't only have one son, he has several. Genesis 6:4: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God... etc"

Jesus was just one of the many sons of God.

[Bradley364]

:shrug:

Its all bullshit in the eyes of me. My question is how ANYONE could believe in either of those books, in this modern time we find out selfs trapped in.

[Myles]

:shrug:

Its all bullshit in the eyes of me. My question is how ANYONE could believe in either of those books, in this modern time we find out selfs trapped in.

In a word, exactly !

[Yorda]

Its all bullshit in the eyes of me. My question is how ANYONE could believe in either of those books, in this modern time we find out selfs trapped in.

yeah, i also used to think that the various "holy scriptures" were nonsense. but that was before i found out that the bible was written by 'aliens'. and since the aliens were very intelligent, i now have reasons to believe in the bible, even though many things in the bible sound weird. they sound weird because the aliens spoke to primitive humans so they had to write in primitive language, but if you decode the metaphors and stuff, you find the true meaning.

similarly, i have to speak in primitive language now, so that people will understand some of what i'm saying here.

[Bradley364]

yeah, i used to think that the various "holy scriptures" were nonsense too. but that was before i found out that the bible was written by 'aliens'. and since the aliens were very intelligent, i now have reasons to believe in the bible, even though many things in the bible sound weird. they sound weird because the aliens spoke to primitive humans so they had to write in primitive language, but if you decode the metaphors and stuff, you find the true meaning.

I'll take your strange and obscure, if unconventional theory seriously as soon as you give us some proof. If your wondering, I've heard of it before ((HISTORY CHANNEL FTW)) so I know a bit of the...support you might draw from. Expand a bit. ;)

[spidergoat]

Considering the Bible and the Koran are the work of men, they are both potentially corrupted. Perhaps a Muslim will respond, but they tend to say that they do consider the Bible true and Jesus a prophet. The similarities they see as not derivative, but as supporting both works, like the Mormons consider the book of Mormon more recently. The disciples were definitely the work of lesser men and their conclusions debatable.

[Myles]

yeah, i also used to think that the various "holy scriptures" were nonsense. but that was before i found out that the bible was written by 'aliens'. and since the aliens were very intelligent, i now have reasons to believe in the bible, even though many things in the bible sound weird. they sound weird because the aliens spoke to primitive humans so they had to write in primitive language, but if you decode the metaphors and stuff, you find the true meaning.

similarly, i have to speak in primitive language now, so that people will understand some of what i'm saying here.

Properly put, the Bible starts as follows:

Stemr pi godad yek knie tofu yam. Abrat ho somen jusef til barg, oti na slam.
Tigo na schlampa, molum ubidi sogar ratu silin nahu.....


Anyone interested in the Truth, please pm me and donate $1000.00 for the complete text in Navril and an English translation.

Yoni goga yu,

Myles

[Yorda]

Expand a bit. ;)

the "aliens" were actually not from another planet. they were just an advanced ancient human race who originally lived in "atlantis". primitive people sometimes called them "gods" because they could do crazy magical things.

[spidergoat]

You're so cute when you're woo-wooing.

[Myles]

the "aliens" were actually not from another planet. they were just an advanced ancient human race who originally lived in "atlantis". primitive people sometimes called them "gods" because they could do crazy magical things.

I think your'e from another planet.

[Bradley364]

the "aliens" were actually not from another planet. they were just an advanced ancient human race who originally lived in "atlantis". primitive people sometimes called them "gods" because they could do crazy magical things.

Alright.....your completely retarded.

-gives you the stamp of approval-

[Cris]

I have yet to see anything from Yorda that deserves any serious response.

[Cris]

Linda,

Hi and welcome to sciforums.

It is a complete record of everything called reality.Only by those that confuse mythology with reality.

How can the Ten Commandments be corrupted?
Not possible.Which version of the 10 commandments are you referring. There are several and quite different. Only 1 might be correct or all might be wrong.

They teach that Jesus wasn't crucified.
Where do Muslims come up with this stuff written millenniums after Sinai?
How can they expect it to be believed?No one has yet shown that a Jesus ever existed, and the Christian myths about this character would likely be just as incredible as any Muslim imaginary variation.

[Linda7777]

Cris, no offense to you really, but excuse me....I'm looking for an intelligent reponse to my post.
I haven't got time to prove this to you.
It wouldn't do any good anyway since you're obviously of a certain mindset that blocks truth from getting in.
No offense intended, Cris...but I hear your complaint all the time and never take it seriously since I know Jesus is real and the Bible is the Word of God.
It would be like trying to prove pink fairies aren't real.
We know they're not AND Christians know God is real.

[Linda7777]

the "aliens" were actually not from another planet. they were just an advanced ancient human race who originally lived in "atlantis". primitive people sometimes called them "gods" because they could do crazy magical things.


What proof do you have to support your claims?
As Richard Dawkins says the world has no shortage of liars, so present proof that aliens exist.
The Bible teaches that "aliens" are demons..fallen angels who fell with Lucifer. I've no doubt people have seen "aliens" but they are really demons creating illusions.

[Linda7777]

Considering the Bible and the Koran are the work of men, they are both potentially corrupted. Perhaps a Muslim will respond, but they tend to say that they do consider the Bible true and Jesus a prophet. The similarities they see as not derivative, but as supporting both works, like the Mormons consider the book of Mormon more recently. The disciples were definitely the work of lesser men and their conclusions debatable.

Prove that the Bible is the work of men.
Prove that obeying the Ten Commandments would not create a paradise.

[Linda7777]

:shrug:

Its all bullshit in the eyes of me. My question is how ANYONE could believe in either of those books, in this modern time we find out selfs trapped in.


Prove your statement. In your eyes? How is this to be believed as absolute truth? Your word is not enough!
The Bible contains the only hope, who is Christ for this world we are trapped in.

[Linda7777]

According to the Bible, God doesn't only have one son, he has several. Genesis 6:4: "There were giants in the earth in those days; and also after that, when the sons of God... etc"

Jesus was just one of the many sons of God.


:bawl:I should have said..the only begotten Son of God, or the only begotten God.

[Linda7777]

I know Jesus is real because I have personally met him, so there is no way I could believe otherwise. If I hadn't met him personally then I would be prey.

[andbna]

Although I thought of replys ad nauseum to point out the grotesque fallacies of your posts Linda, I think I shall keep it simple:

You are immature; having no ability (or are to ignorant to use any such ability) to question your own beliefs. You thus lack the means to understand anothers belief system, and cannot carry on a usefull philosophical debate.

-Andrew

[John99]

most likely a sock puppet.

[Prince_James]

Linda7777:

I know Jesus is real because I have personally met him, so there is no way I could believe otherwise. If I hadn't met him personally then I would be prey.

How did you personally meet him?

I assume in a vision, right?

Also, the Decalogue (Ten Commandments) is a retty decent rule. But the God stuff is not much in the way of paradise supportive. Only the practical stuff is.

Thou shall not murder.
Thou shall not commit adultery (which means seduce a wife or a wife screwing around, not a husband of a woman to fornicate with an unmarried woman to note)
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's possessions and wife.
Thou shall honour one's mother and father
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

However, even that is incomplete. It speaks of nothing of charging interest, for instance. Or abortion. Or homosexuality. Or war. Or payment. Or slavery. Or any other moral issue.

It ia also an expression if nearly universal mandates of general, common sense, society-supportive morality.

[Linda7777]

Although I thought of replys ad nauseum to point out the grotesque fallacies of your posts Linda, I think I shall keep it simple:

You are immature; having no ability (or are to ignorant to use any such ability) to question your own beliefs. You thus lack the means to understand anothers belief system, and cannot carry on a usefull philosophical debate.

-Andrew

I don't need to question truth. Why would I question if 1+1 is 2? Or if green is green and not red? If up is up and not down? There is truth and there is the lie.
You want me to understand atheism, paganism, heathenism, devil worship,
belief in fairies, worship of godesses and gods, homosexuality, hinduism, Islam, and the list goes on... with a smile of approval.
I'm glad you see the firm standing of the Christian who will not compromise.
You're a brazen hypocrite who embraces only what YOU percieve as acceptable, but if it interferes with your beliefs which were plain in your post, then one becomes your enemy.
Yes, you are truly a hypocrite.

[Linda7777]

Thou shall not murder.
Thou shall not commit adultery (which means seduce a wife or a wife screwing around, not a husband of a woman to fornicate with an unmarried woman to note)
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's possessions and wife.
Thou shall honour one's mother and father
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Yes, do all these things and the world will be a better place!

[Linda7777]

James posted
"However, even that is incomplete. It speaks of nothing of charging interest, for instance. Or abortion. Or homosexuality. Or war. Or payment. Or slavery. Or any other moral issue.

It ia also an expression if nearly universal mandates of general, common sense, society-supportive morality."

Jesus said if you love your neighbor as yourself, you fulfill all the Law and the prophets. So there it is...

[andbna]

I don't need to question truth. There is no need to. Why would I question if 1+1 is 2? Your right, no need to question truth, but you (nor I) know no truth(pick up some epystomology related material to see why.) You do have beliefs, which should be questioned.
The analogy does not hold; 1+1=2 because we defined it as such, that is, mathematics follows a set of axioms created by humans which are thus known, and has nothing to do with our reality (thouh, it may be able to model parts of it.)

You want me to understand atheism, paganism, heathenism, devil worship,
belief in fairies, worship of godesses and gods, homosexuality, hinduism, Islam, and the list goes on. with a smile of approval.
No, you wanted to understand the Muslim position, remember? It was the original post? I merely stated that to understand another's belief system, you have to question your own. Capiche?

I'm glad you see the firm standing of the Christian who will not compromise.
You're a brazen hypocrite who embraces only what YOU percieve as acceptable, but if it interferes with your beliefs which were plain in your post, then one becomes your enemy.
Yes, you are truly a hypocrite.
So let me get this straight: You admit that you are ignorant (by saying you refuse to compromise your position) and you further admit that I do understand your position, and yet you think the hypochrite is I? I think you should google the phrase: "non sequitur."

But, since you claim to know my beliefs, tell me, how do you percieve them?

-Andrew

[Prince_James]

Linda7777:

Jesus said if you love your neighbor as yourself, you fulfill all the Law and the prophets. So there it is...

But that is clearly not the case, as Jewish law itself went into extreme lengths of reasoning to try to capture alll moral issues.

Moreover, that would still imply the Ten Commandents is flawed, as "Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself" is not part of the ten commandments.

[Linda7777]

Ignorance is not knowing. I know whom I have believed...Christ.
Your belief is... one must toe the line you toe or one is IGNORANT.
Ignorance to you is ignorance of your views, your perceptions of life.
I could say to you that in order for you to understand my belief you must listen and understand. I don't care if you understand my beliefs.
I understand that the world if filled with some very strange people whose beliefs cannot be understood, but must be rejected as insane.
I asked a simple question about Islam hoping to perhaps find a meaningful respectful dialogue with an intelligent Muslim. But instead I was brutally attacked by faceless people criticizing me, insutlting me, and basically hating me with their posts.
You're a hypocrite by wanting me to be what you are not.

[John99]

You wiill smoke some out soon,

[spidergoat]

Prove that the Bible is the work of men.
Prove that obeying the Ten Commandments would not create a paradise.

It is not internally consistent. Even the reports of the various disciples are different. Mary Magdalene had a quite different interpretation of the resurrection than the other disciples did. Early in Christianity, there were a variety of gospels with very different views that were suppressed. Certain events like the exodus have been shown not to have happened. Jews have been shown genetically to be native to the Palestine region.

As far as the Ten Commandments, it is a reflection of the norms of society, and are present in the social codes of other cultures of a non-religious nature. Furthermore, one of the commandments is that you not create images, which would pretty much end the internet. I do agree that not killing, coveting, stealing, and the like are good ideas, but their existence does not show that they could only have come from a God.

[scorpius]

Thou shall not murder.
Thou shall not commit adultery (which means seduce a wife or a wife screwing around, not a husband of a woman to fornicate with an unmarried woman to note)
Thou shall not steal
Thou shall not covet thy neighbour's possessions and wife.
Thou shall honour one's mother and father
Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Yes, do all these things and the world will be a better place!
oh really?watch this and think again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCz0-HY1TLU

btw why are things such as rape,murder,slavery ok in your guide book?

www.evilbible.com

and why should we admire Jesus when he said idiotic shyt like this:

For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW. And a MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD.

-Matthew 10:35-36
http://www.nobeliefs.com/jesus.htm

here learn something new

http://www.nobeliefs.com/problemswithbeliefs.htm

[Linda7777]

Linda7777:



But that is clearly not the case, as Jewish law itself went into extreme lengths of reasoning to try to capture alll moral issues.

Moreover, that would still imply the Ten Commandents is flawed, as "Love Thy Neighbour as Thyself" is not part of the ten commandments.


Oh please......!
Jesus set his words against the Holy Scriptures.
Jesus said.."you have heard it said by them of old time...
..but I say to you..."
He said if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not hurt him in any way.

[Linda7777]

Scorpius posted;
For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW. And a MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD.

-Matthew 10:35-36

Yes he did, he brought a sword and we see that sword right now dividing me and you and me and others. If you want to rob a bank and I refuse to go with you the sword has divided us. Jesus brouht the sword that divides good people from evil ones. It divides the good guys from the bad guys.

[scorpius]

Ignorance is not knowing. I know whom I have believed...Christ.
Your belief is... one must toe the line you toe or one is IGNORANT.
no,
ignorance is NOT wanting to KNOW anything else, IOW =IGNORING everything else.

Ignorance to you is ignorance of your views, your perceptions of life.
I could say to you that in order for you to understand my belief you must listen and understand. I don't care if you understand my beliefs.
I understand that the world if filled with some very strange people whose beliefs cannot be understood, but must be rejected as insane.
WHY are others beliefs insane and not yours?
after all your book seem totaly insane in so many places
www.skepticsannotatedbible.com

I asked a simple question about Islam hoping to perhaps find a meaningful respectful dialogue with an intelligent Muslim. But instead I was brutally attacked by faceless people criticizing me, insutlting me, and basically hating me with their posts.
want some cheese with that whine..LOL
you come to religion forum debate,expect to get your feathers ruffled,its that simple.

You're a hypocrite by wanting me to be what you are not.
it would help if you learned a definition of the word hypocrite before using it,;);)

[Linda7777]

It is not internally consistent. Even the reports of the various disciples are different. Mary Magdalene had a quite different interpretation of the resurrection than the other disciples did. Early in Christianity, there were a variety of gospels with very different views that were suppressed. Certain events like the exodus have been shown not to have happened. Jews have been shown genetically to be native to the Palestine region.

As far as the Ten Commandments, it is a reflection of the norms of society, and are present in the social codes of other cultures of a non-religious nature. Furthermore, one of the commandments is that you not create images, which would pretty much end the internet. I do agree that not killing, coveting, stealing, and the like are good ideas, but their existence does not show that they could only have come from a God.


Where have you been that you don't know what the Mosiac Code is and what it means to the world? Why haven't you learned about the heart how God said he would write his laws on our hearts and in our minds?
There was no law as you say, not even Hammurabi's could compare with the Law of Moses.
These laws are not present in any codes anywhere and even as far back as the Sumerians they didn't know the things that make for peace and order. It is called human nature what you're talking about, nature without God, but with the desire for happiness, but not the knowldge of how to attain it.
The chaotic god and the creative one were known to the Sumerians but how to know him was non existent until God called Abram out of Babylonia a pagan land.

[scorpius]

Scorpius posted;
For I am come to SET A MAN AT VARIANCE AGAINST HIS FATHER, AND THE DAUGHTER AGAINST HER MOTHER, AND THE DAUGHTER IN LAW AGAINST HER MOTHER IN LAW. And a MAN'S FOES SHALL BE THEY OF HIS OWN HOUSEHOLD.

-Matthew 10:35-36

Yes he did, he brought a sword and we see that sword right now dividing me and you and me and others. If you want to rob a bank and I refuse to go with you the sword has divided us. Jesus brouht the sword that divides good people from evil ones. It divides the good guys from the bad guys.
NOPE,only things that divides us is YOU and YOUR beliefs that everyone else is wrong,
why cant you simply accept all those who believe differently,after all I DO and Im atheist.

[Prince_James]

Linda7777:

Oh please......!
Jesus set his words against the Holy Scriptures.
Jesus said.."you have heard it said by them of old time...
..but I say to you..."
He said if you love your neighbor as yourself you will not hurt him in any way.

But this doesn't go back to the Decalogue.

Moreover, the Decalogue is not that important in Biblical or Talmudic Judaism.

And isn't the law superceded by Jesus? As such, even the Ten Commandments doesn't hold.

[andbna]

Ignorance is not knowing. Correct. And you refuse to know the (potential) faults in your beliefs, hence, you are ignorant by your own choice.

Your belief is... one must toe the line you toe or one is IGNORANT.
No, the above is my definition of ignorance.

could say to you that in order for you to understand my belief you must listen and understand. I don't care if you understand my beliefs.
Your the one trying to understand anothers beliefs remember? How do you expect to understand anothers beliefs if you are unwilling to understand another's beliefs. Your position makes no sense.

I understand that the world if filled with some very strange people whose beliefs cannot be understood, but must be rejected as insane.
By definiton, if it cannot be understood, then it would be futile to try, so we can agree on that.

I asked a simple question about Islam hoping to perhaps find a meaningful respectful dialogue with an intelligent Muslim. But instead I was brutally attacked by faceless people criticizing me, insutlting me, and basically hating me with their posts.
You ask a simple question, and it was explained to you (not by me however.) You then claimed the explination infringes upon your beliefs. You were then told why you could not understand the answer, and now you call me a hypochrite.
Clearly, this is a question you should not have asked.

You're a hypocrite by wanting me to be what you are not. I asked no such thing, you rather have imposed some stereotype upon me. YOU wanted to understand the Muslims beliefs. I merely explained that to understand anothers belief, you must question your own. I never said you HAVE to understand another persons beliefs. If you don't want to question your own, fine with me. Don't ask questions then which require you to do that which you don't want to do. Would you ask God for some need and accuse him of being a hypochrite if he asked you to climb a mountain to get it?

Now, remember that cube on the teachers desk, each side of which a student faced? Remember how one saw black and the other white? If you choose to stay rooted on the spot, then you can never understand why the other child disagrees.

-Andrew

[spidergoat]

Where have you been that you don't know what the Mosiac Code is and what it means to the world? Why haven't you learned about the heart how God said he would write his laws on our hearts and in our minds?
There was no law as you say, not even Hammurabi's could compare with the Law of Moses.
These laws are not present in any codes anywhere and even as far back as the Sumerians they didn't know the things that make for peace and order. It is called human nature what you're talking about, nature without God, but with the desire for happiness, but not the knowldge of how to attain it.
The chaotic god and the creative one were known to the Sumerians but how to know him was non existent until God called Abram out of Babylonia a pagan land.

The so-called "Mosaic Code" is not unique. Humans and even apes have an evolved sense of right and wrong. Yes, it's neat that people codified such rules as law. Confucius in particular had the same approach. The desire for happiness is what prevents it, as taught by Buddha. I think the basic message of Jesus was the same. Realization of the unity or non-bounded nature of existence, reduces the illusion of ego or separateness. Jesus said it was separateness from God, but that was the lingo of the day. God is another word for the all. Ying and Yang was a concept of creative/destructive polarity that is the same as what you describe. I think it's a superior concept, since they are not opposed in Eastern philosophy, they are both aspects of the same thing.

I'm not unfamiliar with the teachings of the gospel, I think orthodox Christianity does not fully capture the depth of the message of Jesus. Not even his disciples got it. Well maybe one or two, like Mary and Thomas.

[Cris]

Linda,

Cris, no offense to you really, but excuse me....I'm looking for an intelligent reponse to my post.
I haven't got time to prove this to you.That’s OK, no Christian has yet been able to show that a real Jesus ever existed. I’m not expecting you will fair any better.

It wouldn't do any good anyway since you're obviously of a certain mindset that blocks truth from getting in.Not really sure what you mean. It is simple fact – no one has yet shown that a real Jesus ever existed – in the absence of such evidence, mythology is the more likely scenario.

No offense intended, Cris...but I hear your complaint all the time and never take it seriously since I know Jesus is real and the Bible is the Word of God.Not quite accurate. You don’t know either is true, you only believe they are true based on the words of others.

It would be like trying to prove pink fairies aren't real.And we generally leave such claims open to considerations of credibility. It is not that we know they don’t exist but we have no reason to believe they might exist; similarly with Christian claims.

We know they're not AND Christians know God is real.Well again no you don’t. You only believe on faith (a conviction of truth in the absence of evidence). And claims of a personal revelation cannot be distinguished from delusion, the later being well understood and common place.

[Cris]

Linda,

Prove that the Bible is the work of men.What evidence is there of any other alternative?

Prove that obeying the Ten Commandments would not create a paradise.Which set do you mean?

http://www.positiveatheism.org/crt/whichcom.htm

And let’s not forget the 10 punishments that accompany them –

Ten Punishments (Let's post these in the schoolroom!)

1. Exodus 22:20: He that sacrificeth unto any god, save unto the Lord only, he shall be utterly destroyed.
2. Leviticus 24:16: And he that blasphemeth the name of the Lord, he shall surely be put to death.
3. Exodus 31:15: Whosoever doeth any work in the Sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death.
4. Exodus 21:15: He that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
5. Exodus 21:17: He that curseth his father or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
6. Exodus 22:19: Whosoever lieth with a beast shall surely be put to death.
7. Leviticus 20:13: If a man lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death.
8. Leviticus 20:10: And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death.
9. Mark 16:16: He that believeth not, shall be damned.
10. Malachi 2:1-4: And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. If you will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart to give glory to my name, ... behold, I will corrupt your seed, and spread dung upon your faces.

I know Jesus is real because I have personally met him, so there is no way I could believe otherwise. If I hadn't met him personally then I would be prey.How do you distinguish that claim to the more believable explanation that you are deluded?

[Myles]

[QUOTE=Linda7777;1893688]Cris, no offense to you really, but excuse me....I'm looking for an intelligent reponse to my post.I haven't got time to prove this to you.
It wouldn't do any good anyway since you're obviously of a certain mindset that blocks truth from getting in.
No offense intended, Cris...but I hear your complaint all the time and never take it seriously since I know Jesus is real and the Bible is the Word of God.
It would be like trying to prove pink fairies aren't real.
We know they're not AND Christians know God is real.

Hi Linda,

Sorry to be late to the party. I assume by "intelligent response" you wish to hear opinions which are in accord with your views. Someone shoulds have told you that you have come to the wrong place. Why not visit a Christian site, where a warm welcome awaits you. Your only problem will be choosing one from amomg the hundred of sects. Good hunting !

[Linda7777]

Well, looks like I stumbled upon a hellhole on the web filled with atheists, pagans and heathens and witches.
Prove God?
It is understood by the sane that there is a God!
I realize that atheists and company are appointed by God to be atheists and company.
I hold nothing against atheists since they have no choice but to be atheists.
I don't have to prove anything, though I could, it would be a waste of time.
I don't try to nail jelly to walls.
I will go where there are minds that can think!
Go ahead post your vicious violent mean and ugly responses...
and post it...then read your own post...watch me I will not be back after I'm done posting tonight.
Go ahead...knock yourselves out attacking me..only I won't read your responses.
LOL.
You will preach to the choir!

[Cris]

Pity. Just how does one break through that immense barrier of irrational religious indoctrination?

Every statement in Linda's final post has an error either from indoctrination, the very narrow-minded perspective of the theist, or simple logical fallacy. Those are huge hurdles to overcome and typical of so many. How can civilization grow when there are such bizarre and false perspectives?

[spidergoat]

Well, looks like I stumbled upon a hellhole on the web filled with atheists, pagans and heathens and witches.
Prove God?
It is understood by the sane that there is a God!
I realize that atheists and company are appointed by God to be atheists and company.
I hold nothing against atheists since they have no choice but to be atheists.
I don't have to prove anything, though I could, it would be a waste of time.
I don't try to nail jelly to walls.
I will go where there are minds that can think!
Go ahead post your vicious violent mean and ugly responses...
and post it...then read your own post...watch me I will not be back after I'm done posting tonight.
Go ahead...knock yourselves out attacking me..only I won't read your responses.
LOL.
You will preach to the choir!

So, this is the equivalent of putting your fingers in your ears and going "la, la, la, I can't hear you..."

What would it hurt to actually discuss the philosophy of religion like a human being? Are you that weak?

Plenty of perfectly sane people not only disbelieve in the Christian God, you yourself disbelieve in thousands of other Gods, yet for some reason you have decided to accept the Christian one.

I'm not mean. What is mean about what I said? Try thinking for a change. Otherwise your presense here will not be missed. Maybe God told you to come here and talk to someone who doesn't think exactly like you do.

[John99]

Well, looks like I stumbled upon a hellhole on the web filled with atheists, pagans and heathens and witches.
Prove God?
It is understood by the sane that there is a God!
I realize that atheists and company are appointed by God to be atheists and company.
I hold nothing against atheists since they have no choice but to be atheists.
I don't have to prove anything, though I could, it would be a waste of time.
I don't try to nail jelly to walls.
I will go where there are minds that can think!
Go ahead post your vicious violent mean and ugly responses...
and post it...then read your own post...watch me I will not be back after I'm done posting tonight.
Go ahead...knock yourselves out attacking me..only I won't read your responses.
LOL.
You will preach to the choir!

That was beautiful.

[spidergoat]

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

[PsychoticEpisode]

Pity. Just how does one break through that immense barrier of irrational religious indoctrination?

No question, Linda's gone beyond reason. It's sad really. She could be teaching your kid at Sunday School someday.

I don't think the barrier can be broached in Linda's case. She needs an exorcism just to get back to being insane.

[Bradley364]

Ignorance is bliss I guess.

Anit it true man. But once you'd had a taste of truth, there is no going back.

[Cris]

John99,

That was beautiful.I can't figure out whether that was a sincere comment or you are being sarcastic.

[Bells]

Well, looks like I stumbled upon a hellhole on the web filled with atheists, pagans and heathens and witches.
Prove God?
It is understood by the sane that there is a God!


Of course.

Because only sane people would believe in some mythical super natural being, who impregnated a virgin, sent an angel to inform her of her impending motherhood and that she was giving birth to the son of God, have said woman then marry another man who then drags her across the countryside to give birth in a barn, and who then brings the child up as his own, knowing it is not his but "the son of god". Said son then takes to traveling the countryside, gathering the flock, telling them he is the son of God. Son also speaks to God, is killed by those who view him to be a heretic (who wouldn't really?), then his body supposedly rises to heaven, blah blah blah.

Yes, of course only sane people would believe in the above ^^.:rolleyes:

I realize that atheists and company are appointed by God to be atheists and company.
I hold nothing against atheists since they have no choice but to be atheists.
I don't have to prove anything, though I could, it would be a waste of time.
I don't try to nail jelly to walls.
I will go where there are minds that can think!
I appointed myself as an atheist when I realised that there was no God. *Gasp*.. shocking I know, but it's true.

Go ahead post your vicious violent mean and ugly responses...
Of course. And you go back and read about how your God killed the first born son's of so many people and then convince yourself, 'yes, he is a benevolent and loving God'.

Wake up and smell the coffee.

[John99]

John99,

I can't figure out whether that was a sincere comment or you are being sarcastic.

I thought it was pretty funny.

[Randwolf]

Well, looks like I stumbled upon a hellhole on the web filled with atheists, pagans and heathens and witches.


Well, Linda, what better place to evangelize? Let your God work amongst the wicked...

P.S. - witches are kind of cool...

[Bells]

Well, Linda, what better place to evangelize? Let your God work amongst the wicked...

:eek:

What the!

Noooo..

Don't encourage people to try convert us.:bawl:

[Randwolf]

:eek:

What the!

Noooo..

Don't encourage people to try convert us.:bawl:

Oh, come on, it will be fun! :D

[Nasor]

It is understood by the sane that there is a God!
Yeah, it's clearly insane to think that a 2000+ year old book full of stories of people conjuring things out of thin air and talking snakes might not be accurate.

[spidergoat]

If we have no choice but to be atheists, then God wanted to keep us from salvation, which means he's not omnibenevolent. He deliberately sends people to certain damnation. So either we do have free will, or he doesn't exist.

[nova900]

The Torah was given to us about 2500 years before Muhammed was even born, so why would I think I should believe the Koran later and not Holy Bible before?
.......

Why?
Well in following bible belt logic...the New Testament supercedes the Old Testament and is the new covenant and the OT is obsolete,therefore following this pattern the Quaran came after the NewTestament so it is an even newer covenant.;)

[ronan]

Well, looks like I stumbled upon a hellhole on the web filled with atheists, pagans and heathens and witches.

:D:D

[(Q)]

I know Jesus is real because I have personally met him, so there is no way I could believe otherwise. If I hadn't met him personally then I would be prey.

Lunatic fundie alarm is sounding.

[Enmos]

I know Jesus is real because I have personally met him, so there is no way I could believe otherwise. If I hadn't met him personally then I would be prey.

Where did you meet him ?
- What was he doing there ?
How did he look ?
- Eye color ?
- Hair color ?
- How does he dress ?
- Did he have a beard ?
- What was his height ?
- What ethnicity does he have ?
What are his hobbies ?
- Does he play any sports ?
What did he say to you, if anything ?
- Did he have to say anything about the Middle-eastern conflict ?
How did you know it was Jesus ?

[Cris]

Randwolf,

P.S. - witches are kind of cool...Oh yeah. I'm a level 64 Warlock in WOW. Demonology specialist. :-)

[Myles]

Where did you meet him ?
- What was he doing there ?
How did he look ?
- Eye color ?
- Hair color ?
- How does he dress ?
- Did he have a beard ?
- What was his height ?
- What ethnicity does he have ?
What are his hobbies ?
- Does he play any sports ?
What did he say to you, if anything ?
- Did he have to say anything about the Middle-eastern conflict ?
How did you know it was Jesus ?

You ask some really stupid questions,. kaaskopp. Just take Linda's word for it!

Eyes, brown
Hair , brown
He dresses in the opposite manner to which he undresses
Of course he had a beard. Would you shave with broken glass ?
Ethnicity, semitic
Hobbies: Walking on water , feeding multitudes on 2 burgers and 5 french fries
Sports, Pharisee baiting, chasing swine over cliffs, money-changer tossing out of temples.
He said : I am Jesus, for Christ's sake.
How did she know ? He told her he was Jesus and Jesus never lies.

[Enmos]

You ask some really stupid questions,. kaaskopp. Just take Linda's word for it!

Eyes, brown
Hair , brown
He dresses in the opposite manner to which he undresses
Of course he had a beard. Would you shave with broken glass ?
Ethnicity, semitic
Hobbies: Walking on water , feeding multitudes on 2 burgers and 5 french fries
Sports, Pharisee baiting, chasing swine over cliffs, money-changer tossing out of temples.
He said : I am Jesus, for Christ's sake.
How did she know ? He told her he was Jesus and Jesus never lies.

LOL I didn't really expect to get an answer.. :D

[Yorda]

How did he look ?

This is what he looked like:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8181/yeshuavs6.jpg

[scorpius]

So why do Muslims think the Koran is the word of God when it basically borrows from the Holy Bible?
It also teaches that God doesn't have a Son.
How could Muslims think they could get Christians to believe their Koran and not the blessed Holy Bible?
The Torah was given to us about 2500 years before Muhammed was even born, so why would I think I should believe the Koran later and not Holy Bible before?
We're talking the Ten Commandments here! The Prophets, the Psalms, Proverbs, the history of the world, the birth of Christ, his death, his resurrection, his ascension...the acts of the apostles, the epistles, the future of the world, Revelation of Jesus Christ book by John.
It is a complete record of everything called reality.

Why do Muslims think the Koran could compete with the Book?
(I recently got a Koran)
I hear some say they believe the Bible is corrupted.
How can the Ten Commandments be corrupted?
Not possible.
They teach that Jesus wasn't crucified.
Where do Muslims come up with this stuff written millenniums after Sinai?
How can they expect it to be believed?
If there is a Muslim on board, maybe he would like to present his belief.
Just wondering.......
bible or quran its all man made fantasy and not a very good one at that
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

[DiamondHearts]

bible or quran its all man made fantasy and not a very good one at that
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/quran/index.htm
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/

I opened your page on the Quran. The verse 40:63 was translated as "Thus are they perverted who deny the revelations of Allah." This is an incorrect interpretation of this verse. In English translation, perverted or wrong mean completely different things.

According to Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of Holy Quran translation is as follows:

40:61 It is God Who has made the Night for you, that ye may rest therein, and the days as that which helps (you) to see. Verily God is full of Grace and Bounty to men: yet most men give no thanks.
40:62 Such is God, your Lord, the Creator of all things, there is no god but He: Then how ye are deluded away from the Truth!
40:63 Thus are deluded those who are wont to reject the Signs of God.

Source Provided by The Islamic Computing Center: http://info.uah.edu/msa/quran/quranYusufali.html

[Enmos]

This is what he looked like:

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/8181/yeshuavs6.jpg

Ethnicity ?

[Myles]

[QUOTE=DiamondHearts;1914709]I opened your page on the Quran. The verse 40:63 was translated as "Thus are they perverted who deny the revelations of Allah." This is an incorrect interpretation of this verse. In English translation, perverted or wrong mean completely different things.

According to Abdullah Yusuf Ali translation of Holy Quran translation is as follows:


Source Provided by The Islamic Computing Center: [url]http://info.uah.edu/msa/quran/quranYusufali.html[/url

What would it mean without Abdullah Yusuf's translation ? He might be wrong.

[Yorda]

Because only sane people would believe in some mythical super natural being, who impregnated a virgin,

I wonder if Jesus was the result of an incubus. Merlin was born from a human and an incubus, that's why he got many supernatural powers. Jesus was also a wizard because he could perform magic. At least that would explain how a "virgin birth" could be possible.

[Enmos]

I wonder if Jesus was the result of an incubus. Merlin was born from a human and an incubus, that's why he got many supernatural powers. Jesus was also a wizard because he could perform magic.

Uhm no.. Jesus could not perform magic, he always asked God to perform the miracle for him.
In other words: God was acting through Jesus.

At least that would explain how a "virgin birth" could be possible.
So you're saying that Jesus magically got himself to be conceived ? lol

[Yorda]

Uhm no.. Jesus could not perform magic, he always asked God to perform the miracle for him.
In other words: God was acting through Jesus.

God is always acting through everyone, because he's omnipresent. When I lift my hand, I don't say that God lifts my hand, but it is "God" that lifts it.

Also, remember that Jesus was God, so when you say that he asked God to perform miracles, then he just asked himself, so yes... he could perform magic.

[Enmos]

God is always acting through everyone, because he's omnipresent. When I lift my hand, I don't say that God lifts my hand, but it is "God" that lifts it.

Also, remember that Jesus was God, so when you say that he asked God to perform miracles, then he just asked himself, so yes... he could perform magic.

I'm just wondering.. did you ever read the bible ?

[Enmos]

Besides incubuses are demons that rape their victims. Are you saying Jesus is half demon ?
Also, that's not exactly an immaculate conception.

[Yorda]

So you're saying that Jesus magically got himself to be conceived ? lol

There's nothing magical about an incubus, or astral entity.

I'm just wondering.. did you ever read the bible ?

i haven't read it because it's too boring and long, but i have read the interesting parts. i don't need to read it all because i magically know what it says anyway.

[Enmos]

i haven't read it because it's too boring and long, but i have read the interesting parts. i don't need to read it all because i magically know what it says anyway.

I sure hope you're joking here.
You should read it first before you make claims about it.

[Yorda]

Are you saying Jesus is half demon ?

merlin was a good person, even though he was "half demon". half demon, half god... what's the difference?

but... it's just a thought. i don't really believe it. i believe jesus had magical gifts for the same reason that the other sons of god had them. and i don't believe in the virgin birth... but the incubus thing seems to have something to do with it.

[Enmos]

merlin was a good person, even though he was "half demon". half demon, half god... what's the difference?

but... it's just a thought. i don't really believe it. i believe jesus had magical gifts for the same reason that the other sons of god had them. and i don't believe in the virgin birth... but the incubus thing seems to have something to do with it.

Incubuses are mythological creatures. You'll have to prove their existence first.
And what other sons of God ?

[Yorda]

Incubuses are mythological creatures. You'll have to prove their existence first.

most people are not clairvoyant anymore so they can't see that kind of things, but some people can. you'll get your proof later when you become clairvoyant yourself. the existence of spirits (incubus) can be proven with logic though.

And what other sons of God ?

lol, and you're tellling me that i have to read the bible? check genesis 6:4.

moses was also a "son of god".

[Enmos]

most people are not clairvoyant anymore so they can't see that kind of things, but some people can. you'll get your proof later when you become clairvoyant yourself. the existence of spirits (incubus) can be proven with logic though.
Try me.

lol, and you're tellling me that i have to read the bible? check genesis 6:4.

Moses was also a "son of god".
In the whole of Genesis 6 there is no mention of Moses whatsoever.
Moses was the son of Amram, the son of Kohath.


Some have claimed that the nephilim, or the “sons of God,” both mentioned in Genesis 6:2-4, were aliens. This is a wild extension of a common view that the “sons of God” who married the “daughters of men” were fallen angels, and that the nephilim were products of those “marriages.”

“Sons of God” is clearly used of angels in Job 38:7. The Septuagint (LXX) here translates “sons of God” as “angels of God.” This need not mean that evil angels, or demons, actually cohabited with women—Jesus made it clear that angels do not engage in sexual activities, at least not angels in heaven (Matthew 22:30). Nevertheless, evil angels on earth could have used the bodies of ungodly men, by demonic possession, to achieve their evil purpose of producing an evil generation of people (Genesis 6:12).
http://www.christiananswers.net/q-aig/aig-c036.html

[Myles]

God is always acting through everyone, because he's omnipresent. When I lift my hand, I don't say that God lifts my hand, but it is "God" that lifts it.

Also, remember that Jesus was God, so when you say that he asked God to perform miracles, then he just asked himself, so yes... he could perform magic.

If I put my hand on your private parts will you accept that it's god who is making me do it ?Let the g(o)od times roll!

[S.A.M.]

What a silly thread. :p

[Vkothii]

You can really learn a lot that way.

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, atheists are obsessed with religion. I don't know any theists who spend that much effort on it. :D

[John99]

yeah, i also used to think that the various "holy scriptures" were nonsense. but that was before i found out that the bible was written by 'aliens'. and since the aliens were very intelligent, i now have reasons to believe in the bible, even though many things in the bible sound weird. they sound weird because the aliens spoke to primitive humans so they had to write in primitive language, but if you decode the metaphors and stuff, you find the true meaning.

similarly, i have to speak in primitive language now, so that people will understand some of what i'm saying here.

That is very possible.

[S.A.M.]

I've already read the thread John :D

[CptBork]

Yeah, atheists are obsessed with religion. I don't know any theists who spend that much effort on it. :D

Religion is obsessed with atheists. Our very existence as skeptics and disbelievers troubles religious people, because many of them know that if what they believe were in fact demonstrably true on a daily basis, noone would doubt it. It's embarassing for one to admit that they might in fact be worshipping a nonexistent sky fairy.

[John99]

I've already read the thread John :D

What do you mean?

....well got to go out for awhile and i will be back later...:p

[S.A.M.]

hehe, couldn't resist eh?

[CptBork]

hehe, couldn't resist eh?

Afraid I couldn't. :poke: It's too funny watching people squirm when they realize they're possibly being suckered in by factless stone age ideas.

[S.A.M.]

You have no idea. :D

[CptBork]

You have no idea. :D

Oh, really? And how many mountains have you moved today?

[S.A.M.]

I picked my arse off the bed. That was enough mountain moving for me. hehe

[CptBork]

Anyway I should have resisted the urge. Let the christians and muslims duke it out between themselves, and then we'll take care of whatever's left :D

[S.A.M.]

Didn't read the thread, did you? Its a lot of atheists trying to re-brainwash one Christian to their way of thinking. heh

[CptBork]

One cannot and should not be brainwashed into atheism/agnosticism. That defeats the whole point of critical thought, and it just leads to all those born again christians coming out and saying "I was an atheist just like all y'all, 'til Christ touched my heart".

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, but all those atheists are brainwashed. Of course, now, if they had just listened to their Fitra, they would all have become Muslims.

/sigh

[CptBork]

Frankly the atheists and agnostics should refrain from adding too much input to this thread. The muslims, christians and jews fighting amongst each other for their little scraps of truth do more for the atheist cause than the atheists do themselves.

[S.A.M.]

Yeah, its why I make threads about athiests. Those guys should have some fun too.

[CptBork]

If only there were some scientologists around here adding their 2 cents, I'd be busting out the popcorn right now!

[S.A.M.]

Child, you are the lost lamb. :(

But don't worry the aliens will be here to save you.

They might reek a bit of marsala and have long limp thingies that touch you [the perverts], but I hear the meatballs are worth it. :D

[CptBork]

Not sure what that's supposed to mean. I'm certainly not sitting around waiting for any spaceships to show up, I'm just looking for laughs at the expense of those who are. Who would be stupid enough to follow a religion invented by a known science fiction writer? Oh wait, I forgot about the psychotic Hollywood stars, nevermind...

[Myles]

Yeah, atheists are obsessed with religion. I don't know any theists who spend that much effort on it. :D

That's why they swallow it hook, line and sinker. They don't question their beliefs.

[Yorda]

If I put my hand on your private parts will you accept that it's god who is making me do it ?Let the g(o)od times roll!

yes... sex is a way of connecting with god (that's why it feels like heaven). men and women only love each other because they have fallen from the unity of god. all opposites always try to reach equilibrium (god). the bible also says that god is love.

when we are small children, we're not interested in the opposite sex because we are still one with "god" (one with our self). but when we grow up we notice that we "are" men and women, so we fall into the world of duality. symbolically speaking, we eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad.

i'm being too serious again..

[Myles]

yes... sex is a way of connecting with god (that's why it feels like heaven). men and women only love each other because they have fallen from the unity of god. all opposites always try to reach equilibrium (god). the bible also says that god is love.

when we are small children, we're not interested in the opposite sex because we are still one with "god" (one with our self). but when we grow up we notice that we "are" men and women, so we fall into the world of duality. symbolically speaking, we eat from the tree of knowledge of good and bad.

i'm being too serious again..

Sounds right to me. When can we get started ? I feel like doing a bit of begetting as long as you are not into smiting.

[S.A.M.]

Not sure what that's supposed to mean. I'm certainly not sitting around waiting for any spaceships to show up, I'm just looking for laughs at the expense of those who are. Who would be stupid enough to follow a religion invented by a known science fiction writer? Oh wait, I forgot about the psychotic Hollywood stars, nevermind...

Everyone has a religion, they just give it different names.

[Myles]

Everyone has a religion, they just give it different names.

Not true, SAM. You really must not eat so much curry ( kari ).

The word religion refers to a set of beliefs, usually centred around some deity or other power. Atheists have no common set of beliefs.

[S.A.M.]

Not true, SAM. You really must not eat so much curry ( kari ).

The word religion refers to a set of beliefs, usually centred around some deity or other power. Atheists have no common set of beliefs.

They do, they all believe there is no God. Quite vehemently, some of them. :p

[Myles]

They do, they all believe there is no God. Quite vehemently, some of them. :p

That is not a set of beliefs. It is one belief among many. Atheism is not a religion, whatever you say. There are no gatherings, rituals and all the other paraphanalia associated with a religion.

[CptBork]

Everyone has a religion, they just give it different names.

But where in the Bible and the Quran does it say "just for your info, this book you're reading now could be totally 100% wrong and full of sh-t"? That's what defines a religion to me, when this candid and truthful admission is omitted.

[CptBork]

Atheism is a collective term used today to mean "those who don't hold a belief in a supernatural creator". It's no longer used to refer exclusively to those who believe "there cannot possibly be any god of any shape or sort, no matter what". Very few people who call themselves atheists would qualify as atheists under the latter definition, because it's a foolish position to assert- you can't prove a negative.

[S.A.M.]

But where in the Bible and the Quran does it say "just for your info, this book you're reading now could be totally 100% wrong and full of sh-t"? That's what defines a religion to me, when this candid and truthful admission is omitted.

Does any book say that?

However, the Quran does say:

[20:114] Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."

And:

"[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

But as the Quran also says:


"[22:46] Did they not roam the earth, then use their minds to understand, and use their ears to hear? Indeed, the real blindness is not the blindness of the eyes, but the blindness of the hearts inside the chests."

[iceaura]

Everyone has a religion, they just give it different names. The great thing about the great theisms is the humility they foster in their adherents.

[CptBork]

“
Originally Posted by CptBork
But where in the Bible and the Quran does it say "just for your info, this book you're reading now could be totally 100% wrong and full of sh-t"? That's what defines a religion to me, when this candid and truthful admission is omitted.
”

Does any book say that?

Sure, it's the essence of the scientific method. The means of delivering that message is usually politically correct, but it's standard in virtually all scientific texts to point out that if the evidence on the ground doesn't match what's in the book, then the book is wrong, period.

However, the Quran does say:

[20:114] Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."

And [20:115] should have said: "By the way, none of you have received the complete revelation. Not any single one of you. So don't any of you get cocky and go preaching this stuff to anyone else, because you still don't have any proof."

And:

"[17:36] You shall not accept any information, unless you verify it for yourself. I have given you the hearing, the eyesight, and the brain, and you are responsible for using them."

And as is the norm with religious texts, this quote applies to everything but the actual book in which it was written. Otherwise there'd be no point to having faith in Islam now, would there? If you say faith is not required, then I presume at some point in your life you've seen entire mountains teleport?


But as the Quran also says:


"[22:46] Did they not roam the earth, then use their minds to understand, and use their ears to hear? Indeed, the real blindness is not the blindness of the eyes, but the blindness of the hearts inside the chests."

Religions tell you to follow your heart. I, on the other hand, choose to follow that self-consistent reality which I can see, touch and test, and which only exists insofar as I can do these things.

[pjdude1219]

If only there were some scientologists around here adding their 2 cents, I'd be busting out the popcorn right now!

So i am not the only one.

[JDawg]

[20:114] Do not be in haste with the Qur'an before its revelation to you is completed, but say, "O my Sustainer! Increase my knowledge."

What knowledge?!