is patriotism good?

Discussion in 'Politics' started by codanblad, May 22, 2008.

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what's patriotism equate to where you live?

Poll closed Aug 30, 2008.
  1. can't be openly patriotic (i love my country), 'patriots' are just (whatever negatives)

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  2. can be openly patriotic, i agree there's too much (whatever negative quality) in patriots

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  3. can be openly patriotic, behaviour other ppl complain about is us having fun/being patriotic

    4 vote(s)
    30.8%
  4. i'm not patriotic, because the people that call themselves patriots disgust me.

    3 vote(s)
    23.1%
  1. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,397
    dunno what the situation is in everyone else's country, but in australia the ones who make a point of being patriotic are racists who drink and fight too much. i love australia, but there's no way i'd adopt any of the symbols of australia which i worshipped as a kid, such as southern cross, kangaroo boxing, love it or leave it etc. cos the only other people i see wearing them seem to be small-minded dickheads. even the aussie flag, which they wear like cloaks, is kinda desecrated in my opinion.

    you'd think these were bogan/westie (white trash in yank?) symbols, but i know very superficial and image conscious girls who absolutely hate bogans, they're east suburbs (upper middle class, notable degree of arrogance in regards to westies) private school girls, and they have the love it or leave it stickers on their cars and wanna get the southern cross tats. perhaps they don't represent any others, i don't know.

    don't think there's many aussies reading this, but the love it or leave it slogan is fukn awful. its used by too many racists, there's nothing wrong with it alone, just how it's interpretted and used. why would guests of our country appreciate the kind of mentality it uses? what happened to hospitality?

    anyway to get to the point, anyone else feel like they're in a similar situation?
     
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  3. Carcano Valued Senior Member

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    6,865
    Patriotism is usually just an extended form of communal egotism...except it doesnt feel like egotism because it is shared.

    The human ego is like a black hole. It sucks in everything....cars, trees, mountains, telephone poles, navy transport planes...anything to feel special and better than others.

    One of the most pathetic examples is to see English football hooligans screaming at the German hooligans..."We won the war!!!"

    Hahaha...these kids didnt win anything, not even the game.
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2008
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  5. tim840 Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,653
    I think it's the other way around in America (patriots are annoyed by the behavior of nonpatriots) - like in school when people don't say the pledge of allegiance when everyone else is. Most Americans are pretty patriotic, and I think it bugs people when others dont say the Pledge.

    But no, most patriots are just ordinary people, not racists or stupids or anything like that.
     
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  7. USS Exeter unamerican american Registered Senior Member

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    2,482
    I am American and am proud to not say the pledge in school....or....ever! I honestly do not believe in the blind support for the American government, or really any kind of government.....unless they are the kind that do not demand people do things like say the pledge every day and whatnot.
     
  8. one_raven God is a Chinese Whisper Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    13,433
    I consider myself a patriot, but not by today's standards.
    Patriotism in the US has become a shiny tin badge stamped in China on sale at Walmart.
     
  9. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,536
    I live in Australia, and I'm not overtly patriotic, I regard myself as more of a global citizen. (having lived in 3 countries). The things that "patriots" do only degrade their image to a bunch of ignorant, pissed arseholes, who will jump at the first chance to start an argument about any shit. Especially racist arguments etc.

    All this love it or leave it situation is total BS and is a way of trying to get attention, when truly the age of chest thumping and patriotism is over.
    Anyone who truly loves their country, should try to promote a better image than flag waving parochial assholes. (that goes for you yanks too.).
     
  10. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    I am proud to live in America because I have only lived here so I can't be proud of anywhere else. I do however respect all other countries for understanding what I do about where I live gives me a basis for that. I am not proud of some of the things that people or the governments do here but then again I cannot prevent them from being assholes. Assholes are everywhere in every country and because of them certain countries get branded as some obnoxious thing. Most people that I have met in other countries when I travel are very nice and polite for the most part. I believe that the media once again exaggerates things that happen in countries so I tend to forget about crap that I read about events that happen in other places for I know it isn't the norm but only the strange or bizarre that the media likes to write about which isn't the majority of citizens.
     
  11. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,766
    I would say that being patriotic has less to do with the government and more to do with a common bond between citizens.
    One example of proof is that in the USAmerica, the people who are most vocally "non-patriotic" are the same people that want more taxes,government intervention, aid, handouts and welfare.


    I fully expect someone, here to be offended by this claim and "staighten me out". hehe.
    C'mon, Iceaura. ( I love that guy. Though we don't agree, he's smart and really does love his country)
     
  12. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,267
    Why is that "non-patriotic" ? (I assume you use that phrase as a distinction from UN-patriotic)

    Whether you argree with that political standpoint or not (I don't) the people that beleive in it presumably beleive in it because they feel - rightly or wrongly - that it would make their country a better place - is that not patriotic?

    Being critical of your country and your government is equally a patriotic standpoint as "my country right or wrong" surely?
     
  13. clusteringflux Version 1. OH! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,766
    That's just it. I can't figure it out.

    The same could be said for a suicide bomber. Are they just patriots?

    Again, to what end? If you're striving for a revolution are you a patriot of your country or some country you hope to create?
     
  14. synthesizer-patel Sweep the leg Johnny! Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,267
    I guess patriotism is all in the mind, and to that end it means something different to diffferent people depending on their beleifs.

    Does a suicide bomber who beleives he is doing it to defend his country from foreign invaders beleive he is a patriot? probably.
    I wouldn't want to get close enough to ask one though - but that's the point - provided you beleive you are a patriot - regardless of what else you beleive and what you do to demonstrate your patriotism, you probably are one.

    My view is that patriotism is more about knowing when to both obey your government, and when to disobey it or question it. Its certainly not something as shallow as blind obedience, flag waving and pin wearing.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=ETiXXf0ZqRQ&feature=PlayList&p=AA92DAD553C2BD90&index=8
     
  15. Dr Lou Natic Unnecessary Surgeon Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    5,574
    I've noticed it's only seen as unacceptable and obnoxious when done by people from countries who have something to be proud of.
    When an american waves a flag he's an asshole, when someone from serbia does it it's like "good for him".
    I've been at the cricket and seen police litterally fight their way through flapping Indian flags to get to australian flags and confiscate them like they are nazi propoganda.
     
  16. codanblad a love of bridges Registered Senior Member

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    1,397
    maybe that's due to how people who take aussie flags with them tend to act?
     
  17. Enmos Valued Senior Member

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    43,184
    Isn't patriotism over-the-top by definition ?
    I think it's arrogant.
    Of course you can be proud of your country, but you don't have to be an obnoxious loudmouth about it.
     
  18. Prince_James Plutarch (Mickey's Dog) Registered Senior Member

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    9,214
    I am an ardent nationalist.

    Anyone who is not a patriot disgusts me.
     
  19. tim840 Registered Senior Member

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    1,653
    I am a patriotic American; however, that does not mean that I do not have respect for other countries. I am a xenophile, and I know a lot about a lot of other countries, and I like lots of other countries, but I am still proud to be an American.
     
  20. tim840 Registered Senior Member

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    1,653
    Patriotism is just being proud of your country, not being obnoxious about it. (I think)
     
  21. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,536
    We get the stereotype. unfortunately. being proud of your country= bragging at every chance.
     
  22. Challenger78 Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    7,536
    Really ? I'm surprised that Today Tonight didn't mention it, or the Australian media for that matter. Australia hasn't exactly gotten anything to be proud of. Other than a few token events, oh and the persecution of Aborigines. That and we can play cricket pretty well.

    Today tonight can be summed up like this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBO0OWUjeZg
     
  23. Democles Registered Member

    Messages:
    45
    Are you serious? Patriotism is probably the best thing citizens of a country can be. Willing to fight and die for the country and its people is honorable, as history shows all the way back to...you know, the beginning of time.

    If anything, we need to show patriotism, in America, our founding fathers did, even those who were radical and started fights, look at Samuel Adams (Who never owned nor operated a brewery), Paul Revere, and Thomas Payne (Who wasn't even American, he just loved the country).

    All in all, if you don't love your country, get the fuck out, go find somewhere you're willing to die for, some people you're willing to die for.
     

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