View Full Version : Critical thinking
Would teaching critical thinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking) skills and practices in schools be a good thing?
Michael
05-15-08, 07:38 PM
Yes, I think it would. Actually, I've heard many scientists say exactly that. Also, I know some people who work in China and teach exactly that (once a week lecture) - at least in regards to the scientific method.
I think teaching spelling and math should go first
iceaura
05-15-08, 08:01 PM
You can't teach math, or rhetoric, or grammar, without teaching critical thinking.
Syzygys
05-15-08, 08:10 PM
Are you asking us the rulers if we want the sheeple to be able to think critically? Hell, no! First critical thinking, then revolution! They are much better the way they are, ignorant and easily governed.
But thanks for asking...
I think teaching spelling and math should go first
Yes, of course those should be part of the curriculum... but that's not the question here. :)
Are you asking us the rulers if we want the sheeple to be able to think critically? Hell, no! First critical thinking, then revolution! They are much better the way they are, ignorant and easily governed.
But thanks for asking...
Funny... but I'm interested if any parents do actually have that attitude (if not so arrogantly or blatantly!) toward their children.
Do parents want schools to teach their children to critically examine their beliefs?
Please don't vote hastily. The question might require significant thought.
But please, do vote.
cosmictraveler
05-15-08, 08:22 PM
I believe that to be able to read and comprehend is the first priority for anyone starting to learn. Without the skills it takes to understand what you ar reading everything else is a waste of time.
Yes, of course those should be part of the curriculum... but that's not the question here. :)
I meant it this way. Do I want people who cannot teach a child ONE language (one being the ONLY language most of them will learn) to teach anything to my children?
Yes, of course. But reading isn't the only thing you learn at school.
So, should critical thinking be one of the other things, or not?
I meant it this way. Do I want people who cannot teach a child ONE language (one being the ONLY language most of them will learn) to teach anything to my children?
???
Are you going to address the thread topic, or are you just on a sidetracking mission?
cosmictraveler
05-15-08, 08:33 PM
Yes, of course. But reading isn't the only thing you learn at school.
So, should critical thinking be one of the other things, or not?
I only put that there to insure that those who can read could become critical thinkers for without the ability to read and comprehend people will never get to that stage of thinking.
???
Are you going to address the thread topic, or are you just on a sidetracking mission?
I am. I think instead of enforcing some particular way of thinking we should focus on giving them the tools to make up their own minds. I'm not very impressed with the ideologies of the so called critical thinkers. They seem cold and dispassionate and regimented to me.
pjdude1219
05-15-08, 09:12 PM
I am. I think instead of enforcing some particular way of thinking we should focus on giving them the tools to make up their own minds. I'm not very impressed with the ideologies of the so called critical thinkers. They seem cold and dispassionate and regimented to me.
thats what critical thinking is about
thats what critical thinking is about
Four years ago I may have agreed with you.
I grew up with a great many people without the training or capacity for critical thought, but I had a wonderful time with them; now I'm surrounded by critical thinkers and most of them are arseholes.
Schools can hardly teach basic social skills to children, let alone how to think things through to a logical conclusion. I don't know about the schools where you guys are but here in inner city Ingerland we teach our kids badly and inconsistently. I wouldn't put something as important as teaching children to think for themselves in the hands of teachers. I'm only just about satisfied with the level of academic abilities they have. Teachers aren't the right people for this, parents are. Parents are our children's educators. If a child is raised in a household where free thinking, logic and intelligence are the norm then critical thinking will already be a part of their assessing ideas and beliefs. If not, they're likely to come from a household where thinking things through isn't a reg'lar (sic) occurance. If they come home saying, "This God dude seems a little far fetched to me Mum", there's goning to be all kinds of shit hitting the fan. If the parents don't go up and knock their lights out they're certainly going to pull them out of the school.
I did not realise critical thinking was a pseudonym for atheism. :rolleyes:
I did not realise critical thinking was a pseudonym for atheism. :rolleyes:
It's not. There might or might not be a correlation, but I'm interested in whether there is any correlation between religiousness and attitudes toward having children taught the skills required to rationally make up their own minds.
It might also be interesting to explore the correlation between critical thinking and assholeness :)
It's not. There might or might not be a correlation, but I'm interested in whether there is any correlation between religiousness and attitudes toward having children taught the skills required to rationally make up their own minds.
It might also be interesting to explore the correlation between critical thinking and assholeness :)
I think making a choice to enforce critical thinking over creative thinking leads to a society of self absorbed, judgemental humans who lack the capacity for real empathy and fairness. Critical thinking without the traits that make us better human beings, or at least happier ones, can lead just as easily to the manipulative sophist or con man.
Surely empathy and fairness are traits of critical analysis. Logic doesn't detract from humanity or being humane.
Surely empathy and fairness are traits of critical analysis. Logic doesn't detract from humanity or being humane.
Not really. Logic has no moral value, only utilitarian principles.
Logic doesn't make one immoral. By definition one has to act morally if one thinks with analysis of the outcomes of any given situation.
Logic doesn't make one immoral. By definition one has to act morally if one thinks with analysis of the outcomes of any given situation.
Yeah, like, are you willing to pay 20 bucks for a cup of coffee if it means that the farmers who grow it will get a fair return? Or would you rather continue to screw them so you can get it for a dollar?
Or, should the nations who lead the Security Council also be the lead arms dealers in the world, with between them 90% of the world nuclear weapons? etc.
Critical thinking may make for a smarter being, not necessarily a better one. You can still ignore what you consider irrlevant to your argument, still make assumptions about facts not in evidence, still make wrong inferences, still be far from the truth, still be a close minded SOB
Well neither of those examples seem logical to me.
Critical thinking may make for a smarter being, not necessarily a better one. You can still ignore what you consider irrlevant to your argument, still make assumptions about facts not in evidence, still make wrong inferences, still be far from the truth, still be a close minded SOB
If you're doing those those things, you're not practicing critical thinking.
They are judgement values with no inherent moral right or wrong except of course, for hypocrisy.
If you're doing those those things, you're not practicing critical thinking.
Don't confuse the skills with the traits. Just because you can solve a problem, does not mean you are doing the right thing.
In analysis of these judgement calls one can come to an illogical a-moral conclusion or a morally sound conclusion. I'm not sure what your understanding of critical analysis, or thinking, is but it certainly doesn't involve making ill-thought out decisions.
We don't need to devote class time to teach "critical thinking".
In analysis of these judgement calls one can come to an illogical a-moral conclusion or a morally sound conclusion. I'm not sure what your understanding of critical analysis, or thinking, is but it certainly doesn't involve making ill-thought out decisions.
The first criteria of critical thinking is evaluating the facts in hand. You cannot suspend judgement or introduce variables not immediately present. This to me is its greatest drawback. Its a close minded system. Hence I consider it to be of of important but limited value in problem solving. It eliminates important elements such as thinking freely (known as thinking out of the box or lateral thinking) and brainstorming, both of which are classic creative thinking elements.
If that were the case science would never have developed. Physics, chemistry and biology require abstract thought, to varying degrees. No process follows a linear path, coming to any conclusion requires a "what happens if I..." supposition. I'm not denying creative thinking isn't a factor in coming to conclusions, however I don't see logic and creation as mutually exclusive.
iceaura
05-15-08, 10:45 PM
The first criteria of critical thinking is evaluating the facts in hand. You cannot suspend judgement or introduce variables not immediately present. Someone unable to suspend judgment in light of a shortage of facts in hand is hardly a good critical thinker.
But I would not teach "critical thinking" as a subject for the same reason I wouldn't teach calesthenics in gym. The same mistake they make teaching "reading" without giving the kids something worthwhile to read and a reason to read it.
The first criteria of critical thinking is evaluating the facts in hand. You cannot suspend judgement or introduce variables not immediately present.
Why not?
It eliminates important elements such as thinking freely (known as thinking out of the box or lateral thinking) and brainstorming, both of which are classic creative thinking elements.
We seem to have very different ideas of what "critical thinking" means. I don't understand why you think that critical thinking precludes creative thinking. :confused:
Surely one person can do both? Even at the same time?
I dont see what critical thinking has to do with religion when half the stuff they teach children is creative thinking.
1. evolution
2. humans walked around the planet from Africa
Consider this extract from Understanding the Common Essential Learnings (Saskatchewan Learning) (http://www.sasked.gov.sk.ca/docs/policy/cels/el4.html) (one of the first hits on a search on "Critical-thinking creative-thinking")
The goal of incorporating critical and creative thinking processes into Saskatchewan's K-12 curricula is to develop individuals who value knowledge, learning and the creative process, who can and will think for themselves, yet recognize the limits of individual reflection and the need to contribute to and build upon mutual understandings of social situations. What is desired are students who have purposes for learning, know how and when to question, who recognize when more information is needed and the type of knowledge which is required, know how to find and organize information, and who can generate and evaluate a number of alternatives to human problems.
shaman_
05-15-08, 11:00 PM
Critical thinking would certainly be a more valuable lesson to children than being programmed to believe in the local magic god/gods.
Critical thinking has nothing to do with morals. Although someone with good morals who thinks critically is capable of accomplishing greater good than someone with good morals who does not think critically. hrm.
Big deal Shaman. Think critically about what exactly?
shaman_
05-15-08, 11:07 PM
No specifics. It is just a tool that will help you analyze situations and make better decisions.
I hear your points about morals and critical thinking having nothing to do with each other. In much the same way as tap water and a cup of tea.
Give me an example of a well thought-out, critical conclusion which might have an immoral, or amoral outcome.
EndLightEnd
05-15-08, 11:34 PM
lol
I dont think thinking should be taught in schools! Thats what church is for </sarcasm>
"Dont pray in my school and I wont think in your church"
iceaura
05-15-08, 11:35 PM
I dont see what critical thinking has to do with religion when half the stuff they teach children is creative thinking.
1. evolution
2. humans walked around the planet from Africa OK, maybe I was hasty.
Maybe a class in critical thinking would have some benefits, on average. At least, it might disabuse a few students of the illusion that they were already good at it.
Critical thinking has been taught for years in nursing and medical schools. It is a form of cascading logic that runs forward and backward to come to a conclusion that you form an avenue of action. It is also used in problem solving skills. And yes, morals are involved only as outside factor later configured in, again, to form an avenue of action. You have to have these skills in almost any field you work in. You use it daily just living but you don't realize that you are using criticl thinking skills. They may be simple or quite complex but decisions are still made on the end result.
pjdude1219
05-16-08, 12:40 AM
lol
I dont think thinking should be taught in schools! Thats what church is for </sarcasm>
"Dont pray in my school and I wont think in your church"
i've seen that bumper sticker
They are judgement values with no inherent moral right or wrong except of course, for hypocrisy
Don't confuse the skills with the traits. Just because you can solve a problem, does not mean you are doing the right thing.
Consequentialism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consequentialism)
i imagine the..."ends justify the means" coupled with "the greater good" and "weigh the pros and cons" scenarios are examples of critical thinking that could possibly be characterized in certain instances as immoral
as to the tt...the discipline is somewhat of a scam. perhaps for govt handouts. we go to school to think shit in a standardized manner. any brain farts of ones own are compared and reconciled with established standards.
i think
i critically think
nah
i fail to see the distinction
but thats just me
i am in close proximity to incoming freshman
i fear for our future (american)
the stupidity is really no laughing matter
one_raven
05-16-08, 03:31 AM
Schools should teach children HOW to think, rather than WHAT to think.
so ahh
who wants to dole out a few examples of critical /creative thought?
the distinction is logic vs illogic, ja?
i think one would be hard pressed to assign illogic to either one
try anyway
Schools should teach children HOW to think, rather than WHAT to think.
come now
lit, logic and math for the former
all others to latter
something like that anyway
one_raven
05-16-08, 03:34 AM
come now
lit, logic and math for the former
all others to latter
something like that anyway
Please elaborate.
"how to think" signifies constructing statements and arguments that are self consistent and non contradictory. there are curricular that deals with this
"what to think" signifies that there is a body of knowledge out there. exploit it rather than reinventing whatnot
they are complementary rather than competetive
a well rounded education methinks
a function of any accredited school
Why not?
We seem to have very different ideas of what "critical thinking" means. I don't understand why you think that critical thinking precludes creative thinking. :confused:
Surely one person can do both? Even at the same time?
Critical thinking does preclude creative thinking. They are opposite ends of a spectrum. And yup, we can do both at the same time. But thats not your question. If everyone is being trained into doing step by step thinking, who's really thinking? Creative thinking means being daring, uninhibited, revolutionary, unpredictable; critical thinking is conservative, practical, feasible and predictable.
Schools should teach children HOW to think, rather than WHAT to think.
Yes, I agree. I do not believe that thinking in set predictable ways is a pattern we want to establish /gags
one_raven
05-16-08, 04:04 AM
"how to think" signifies constructing statements and arguments that are self consistent and non contradictory. there are curricular that deals with this
"what to think" signifies that there is a body of knowledge out there. exploit it rather than reinventing whatnot
Not at all.
Proper critical thinking techniques should be applied to the current "body of knowledge" as well.
Most of what is "discovered" is done so by people challenging previously held beliefs and ideas.
The point of critical thinking is taking what is given to you and applying reason to examine the veracity and validity of those precepts.
What we should be teaching children is how to properly analyze available data (icluding scrutinizing the source of the data) and think for themselves.
Most of what is "discovered" is done so by people challenging previously held beliefs and ideas..
Thats the main point here. Without creative thinking there is no progress.
one_raven
05-16-08, 04:18 AM
Thats the main point here. Without creative thinking there is no progress.
I agree.
Likewise for critical thinking.
one_raven
05-16-08, 04:21 AM
Yeah, like, are you willing to pay 20 bucks for a cup of coffee if it means that the farmers who grow it will get a fair return? Or would you rather continue to screw them so you can get it for a dollar?
Or, should the nations who lead the Security Council also be the lead arms dealers in the world, with between them 90% of the world nuclear weapons? etc.
Critical thinking may make for a smarter being, not necessarily a better one. You can still ignore what you consider irrlevant to your argument, still make assumptions about facts not in evidence, still make wrong inferences, still be far from the truth, still be a close minded SOB
I think you have a misunderstanding of what critical thinking is.
It does not imply that one should follow the pure Vulcan logic.
It implies that you apply reason and consider outcomes.
By using critical thinking techniques, you can determine that the cheaper product may harm those who work hard to produce and come to the conclusion that saving the money is not necessarily the best option for society as a whole.
Not at all.
Proper critical thinking techniques should be applied to the current "body of knowledge" as well.
Most of what is "discovered" is done so by people challenging previously held beliefs and ideas.
The point of critical thinking is taking what is given to you and applying reason to examine the veracity and validity of those precepts.
What we should be teaching children is how to properly analyze available data (icluding scrutinizing the source of the data) and think for themselves.
that maybe so and can never really be a bad thing.
however
there is an emphasis on incremental knowledge as the main mode of accumulating knowledge. in practice, doing one's own thing or deviating from the norm can have serious consequence. go with ground control rather than major tom
a eureka moment or dream state.
shit falls into place on its own accord
90% gruntwork (rote, number crunching, trial and error)
thats the stuff of science
one_raven
05-16-08, 04:27 AM
Who is saying to discard all previous knowledge and burn the library at Alexandria?
Teachin how to think as opposed to what to think is simply saying, "Here is the base of knowledge we currently have and here are the tools to discern some meaning from that knowledge."
In other words (as one example) teach them History, but not who was right or wrong. Their moral judgements should be instilled in them from their parents, not their government-run schools.
I think you have a misunderstanding of what critical thinking is.
It does not imply that one should follow the pure Vulcan logic.
It implies that you apply reason and consider outcomes.
By using critical thinking techniques, you can determine that the cheaper product may harm those who work hard to produce and come to the conclusion that saving the money is not necessarily the best option for society as a whole.
Which society? Critical thinkers are more concerned with conservative solutions.
one raven is treading on thin ice
alas
i am beat
Sadly, idealism is considered a revolutionary concept.
one_raven
05-16-08, 04:38 AM
Which society? Critical thinkers are more concerned with conservative solutions.
You definitely have the wrong idea about what critical thinking is.
Critical thinking is solely concerned about pragmatism.
No ideology at all is implied.
It is about the scientific method.
You definitely have the wrong idea about what critical thinking is.
Critical thinking is solely concerned about pragmatism.
No ideology at all is implied.
It is about the scientific method.
Yes I know. :)
Its concerned with whats practical and feasible.
And its a highly conservative mode of thinking. I come across it everyday.
You have these little ruts and you have people going round and round in them, the ruts get deeper and soon they cannot see over the edge. But it does not matter, cos they are all looking down anyway, thinking they are getting somewhere, when mostly, they are just going around in circles.
one_raven
05-16-08, 04:56 AM
Yes I know. :)
Its concerned with whats practical and feasible.
And its a highly conservative mode of thinking.
Sorry, Sam but you are wrong.
It is not conservative at all.
In fact, it is anything BUT conservative.
It is not interested in maintaining status quo, but questioning it every step of the way from the reliability of source of the information to the interpretation of the data.
Sorry, Sam but you are wrong.
It is not conservative at all.
In fact, it is anything BUT conservative.
It is not interested in maintaining status quo, but questioning it every step of the way from the reliability of source of the information to the interpretation of the data.
Thats called conservative thinking in science. The more conservative, the greater the rigor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigour), the greater the exactitude. Maybe you're confusing it with politics?
one_raven
05-16-08, 05:21 AM
Thats called conservative thinking in science. The more conservative, the greater the rigor (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rigour), the greater the exactitude. Maybe you're confusing it with politics?
It seems I was.
So what is the problem with rigorus examination and scrutiny, as opposed to simply accepting what one is taught is "truth"?
What is wrong with questioning status-quo?
It seems I was.
So what is the problem with rigorus examination and scrutiny, as opposed to simply accepting what one is taught is "truth"?
What is wrong with questioning status-quo?
Nothing at all, if you want to do away with "flexibility, adaptability" and most importantly, "the need to take precedent with a pinch of salt". Critical thinking in science would mean you need to work within a strict framework of dogma about what is considered the "right way" of doing things.
One example that I have frequently come across is that of reductionism. ie expecting the parts to represent the whole. Its why we have had the protein wars, followed by the fat wars and are now descending into the carbohydrate wars. None of which make ANY sense and have contributed very little to health, for example.
Unfortunately, at present, we are limited in science by having no better method than of isolating variables and studying them as representative entities. This is one example of the drawback of critical thinking. [You can compare this with the holistic approach in Eastern thinking, for instance]
one_raven
05-16-08, 05:35 AM
One example that I have frequently come across is that of reductionism. ie expecting the parts to represent the whole. Its why we have had the protein wars, followed by the fat wars and are now descending into the carbohydrate wars. None of which make ANY sense and have contributed very little to health, for example.
Unfortunately, at present, we are limited in science by having no better method than of isolating variables and studying them as representative entities. This is one example of the drawback of critical thinking. [You can compare this with the holistic approach in Eastern thinking, for instance]
Someone practicing proper critical thinking methods will take all these aspects into account.
A holistic to health and wellness is a natural result of critical thinking.
Someone practicing proper critical thinking methods will take all these aspects into account.
If they are taking outside abstract variables that have not yet happened into account, they are not practising critical thinking.
Critical thinking does preclude creative thinking. They are opposite ends of a spectrum. And yup, we can do both at the same time. But thats not your question. If everyone is being trained into doing step by step thinking, who's really thinking? Creative thinking means being daring, uninhibited, revolutionary, unpredictable; critical thinking is conservative, practical, feasible and predictable.
You don't think that both are useful ways of thinking?
That both are skills that can be learned?
That someone who knows how to think critically is therefore incapable of thinking creatively, and vice versa?
Did you see the link I gave by example that described how a school curriculum should teach and encourage both critical thinking and creative thinking?
I don't quite get what you're thinking, Sam.
It's as if someone suggested teaching children to swim, and you replied "But then they wouldn't know how to walk!":shrug:
Critical thinking is assessing what is evident and making a decision based on knowledge and intuition, making that leap of faith as you will that allows you to make a judgement, discovery, or decision. It may or may not be harmful, helpful, or moral.
You are talking about common sense. How do you teach grown people to use common sense? The basics should be taught at an early age but it is much more abstract than the repetition\memorization that essentially encompasses all teaching methods.
What is common sense? Isn't it a logical pathway of finding a solution. What about a cascade of cause and effect. If "this happens then that happens" vs "if this happens then that must be what happens". Is that common sense?
That is the problem. When you get conditioned to respond to specific methods of learning then common sense often suffers. There is, to an extent, loss in ability to use common sense. I believe the reason is because things are laid out for you and you are really not thinking at all but just repeating what may not even be correct. If you do not have definitive proof then you are just making a guess. An educated guess? Perhaps. Does it really matter? There really is only right and wrong.
So why learn about critical thinking when any perspectives that deviate from the norm will be ridiculed anyway?
Syzygys
05-16-08, 08:52 AM
I did not realise critical thinking was a pseudonym for atheism. :rolleyes:
It is not really,_it does lead to freethinking though) but name the religion that promotes critical thinking. Specially orthodox one. Mormon freethinker, Muslim freethinker, etc. are all oxymorons...
Syzygys
05-16-08, 08:54 AM
Do parents want schools to teach their children to critically examine their beliefs?
Oh sorry, I didn't get this side of the question first. Well, I would say no, at least not in the States where most parents are theists. Generally theists don't encourage critical thinking because that would leave to the questioning of beliefs...
Syzygys
05-16-08, 08:57 AM
Yeah, like, are you willing to pay 20 bucks for a cup of coffee if it means that the farmers who grow it will get a fair return? Or would you rather continue to screw them so you can get it for a dollar?
I am not sure what are you trying to show here, this is a really bad analogy, for whatever it is. Buying a cup of coffee is not a charity action. In the freemarkets we buy coffee from whoever can provide the best coffee for the lowest price. We don't think about their side of the deal...
You don't think that both are useful ways of thinking?
That both are skills that can be learned?
That someone who knows how to think critically is therefore incapable of thinking creatively, and vice versa?
Did you see the link I gave by example that described how a school curriculum should teach and encourage both critical thinking and creative thinking?
Yeah, but like I said, these are teh same schools churning out people without the ability to read or do simple math. So I'm not really impressed with the turnout.
I am not sure what are you trying to show here, this is a really bad analogy, for whatever it is. Buying a cup of coffee is not a charity action. In the freemarkets we buy coffee from whoever can provide the best coffee for the lowest price. We don't think about their side of the deal...
Correct. Thank you. Whats stopping you from thinking about their side of the deal?
Syzygys
05-16-08, 10:27 AM
Why should I? I could, but why should I?
(I noticed you like to answer with questions, so I figured I would pay you back) :)
P.S.:We kind of got here into economics. The point is consumers don't need to understand producers. But producers need to understand consumers.
That is the problem. When you get conditioned to respond to specific methods of learning then common sense often suffers. There is, to an extent, loss in ability to use common sense. I believe the reason is because things are laid out for you and you are really not thinking at all but just repeating what may not even be correct. If you do not have definitive proof then you are just making a guess. An educated guess? Perhaps. Does it really matter? There really is only right and wrong.I'm confused as to your perspective... are you arguing from the point of view of a theist who believes in the Bible?
I've bolded the bits that confuse me, as your claims of what Critical Thinking can lead to are far more applicable to someone brought up a theist.
Why should I? I could, but why should I?
(I noticed you like to answer with questions, so I figured I would pay you back) :)
P.S.:We kind of got here into economics. The point is consumers don't need to understand producers. But producers need to understand consumers.
Lets try that again. Why?
Syzygys
05-16-08, 11:34 AM
Would that make them happier? Do you think if Americans understood the reason behind high gasprices they were more willing to pay it??
So let's try again, why should the consumer care? Consumers want good products for decent prices and not explanations.
greenberg
05-16-08, 11:51 AM
Critical thinking is solely concerned about pragmatism.
No ideology at all is implied.
Pragmatism is an ideology. It's just that we tend to take pragmatism so much for granted that we don't view it as an ideology anymore.
greenberg
05-16-08, 11:56 AM
So let's try again, why should the consumer care?
For starters, because it is the environment that the consumer lives in that is getting consumed, and natural resources are limited.
For starters, because it is the environment that the consumer lives in that is getting consumed, and natural resources are limited.
Thats an abstract notion to most consumers. You need to be thinking creatively to get there, until it happens.:)
I'm confused as to your perspective... are you arguing from the point of view of a theist who believes in the Bible?
I've bolded the bits that confuse me, as your claims of what Critical Thinking can lead to are far more applicable to someone brought up a theist.
Apparently many things i say here give that impression but i have never read the Bible nor was i raised in a religious family at all. I am mostly home schooled but then i did my own research because i did not have regimented curriculum to follow or formal instructor based learning method. And i never met anyone to identify with under similar circumstance so my views seem normal to me mainly because that is how i learned and what i did learn was simply a matter of weather i agreed with what i was reading or not.
Syzygys
05-16-08, 01:39 PM
For starters, because it is the environment that the consumer lives in that is getting consumed, and natural resources are limited.
As long as the wasteful product is going to be cheaper, most consumer won't care/afford. It would be the role of the government to promote or make enviromentally firendly products more accessable/cheaper.
As long as the wasteful product is going to be cheaper, most consumer won't care/afford. It would be the role of the government to promote or make enviromentally firendly products more accessable/cheaper.
Yeah, thats what I call making assumptions about facts not yet in evidence.
Syzygys
05-16-08, 02:18 PM
You want an example? hybrid cars. They cost more, although they are more enviromently friendly.. Do you think poor people buy hybrids on principle???
But anyway, let's get back on topic, one country where we could say critical thinking is/was in place is Russia where playing chess was part of the curriculum...
Jozen-Bo
05-16-08, 02:26 PM
Would teaching critical thinking (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking) skills and practices in schools be a good thing?
That depends a great deal on how it is done. Before applying critical thinking criteria, we'd better be extremely careful with how and WHO determines WHAT critical thinking is.
You want an example? hybrid cars. They cost more, although they are more enviromently friendly.. Do you think poor people buy hybrids on principle???
But anyway, let's get back on topic, one country where we could say critical thinking is/was in place is Russia where playing chess was part of the curriculum...
Yeah, thats a good example. What advantages do chess playing Russians have except for a tendency towards atheism?
Jozen-Bo
05-16-08, 02:29 PM
Are we thinking critically here?
iceaura
05-16-08, 05:13 PM
If everyone is being trained into doing step by step thinking, who's really thinking? Creative thinking means being daring, uninhibited, revolutionary, unpredictable; critical thinking is conservative, practical, feasible and predictable. I don't really see how uncritical parroting of dogma became mistaken for critical thinking in this discussion.
There is nothing more revolutionary, or more likely to lead to progress, or more daring in its expression, or less predictable by the conventional wisdom, than critical thinking applied to a status quo that is not making sense any more.
As far as school teaching, creative vs critical thinking to get somewhere is like left foot vs right foot to get somewhere. Or induction vs deduction. Where one sees the most significant lack in the modern young is open to question: myself, I see more induction supported by belief, and less deduction supported by explicit consideration of premises.
[QUOTE=Syzygys;1861358]Would that make them happier? Do you think if Americans understood the reason behind high gasprices they were more willing to pay it??
So let's try again, why should the consumer care? Consumers want good products for decent prices and not explanations.
So how does a consumer decide what a decent price is for any purchase ?
Syzygys
05-16-08, 05:26 PM
What advantages do chess playing Russians have except for a tendency towards atheism?
Isn't that sufficient??
So how does a consumer decide what a decent price is for any purchase ?
PP Personal preference. In her example it was like a $20 coffee, I would say that is a bit too high. Though Starbucks is making money on their 4-5$ late, so there must be demand for it...
Isn't that sufficient??
PP Personal preference. In her example it was like a $20 coffee, I would say that is a bit too high. Though Starbucks is making money on their 4-5$ late, so there must be demand for it...
So you shop around. But, having made your point, don't overlook the fact that wealthy people would not bat an eyelid at paying $20 for coffee. There is status involved.
Do you not think it odd that people who drive gas-guzzling cars should complain about the price of gas ?
Do you not think it odd that people who drive gas-guzzling cars should complain about the price of gas ?
I have wondered about that myself..
Syzygys
05-17-08, 03:53 PM
the fact that wealthy people would not bat an eyelid at paying $20 for coffee.
Sure but they are drinking it because they like it or because they are snobs, not because they want to help the beanfarmer...
Sure but they are drinking it because they like it or because they are snobs, not because they want to help the beanfarmer...
You are right. I intend to start a thread on "fair trade" which I know to be anything but fair
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