Abortion

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Clarentavious, Jun 2, 2002.

  1. Clarentavious Person Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    934
    I don't know how many times this has been brought up on these forums, but I'll post it here.

    How goes your opinions on abortion?

    This is the way I see it.

    I don't think people (even hypothetically if they weren't women) should be forced into having a child.

    1 factor. We have a gobal population now of 6 billion.

    There are over 200 million people suffering from malnutrition and on the brink of starving to death in Africa alone.

    With our current population, we are draining more resources than the earth has to offer.

    This breaks down into another topic (all part of my point). Generally the process of pregnancy - a woman and man have sex, and most babies are not born prior to 8 months afterward.

    So what about all the people who have sex without protection, but the pregnancy is not successful due to an infertility problem? And the people that use protection? And the miscarriages?

    This means a WHOLE lot of people are having sex. Aside from the human death rate, we have 6 billion people currently (which it took well over 6 billion births to make, with the exception of twins and multiple births), and sex not resulting in pregnancy occurring all the time (how many couples over average have sex once a day and never have kids? and are married and in fertile stages for over 20 years?) Not including issues like rape.

    So what options does this leave us with? Either humans stop having sex (the most wonderful notion you've ever heard huh), or rely on some form of birth control, which obviously is not always effective (not to mention unavailable to many people having sex). Or, abortion. If you give a child up for adoption, the child will still live and add to the human population pool.

    And what about the people that coming about in this world? It is true you could give birth to another Mother Teresa - but it is also possible you can give birth to another Hilter. No matter how often you spank children, you can never control who people choose to be (unless you use force which is illegal except in places like Afghanistan, until recently - even then you can't stop people until you have incapacitated them).

    We humans have already dragged ourselves into what is, primarily (even if 40% to 60%, IMO at least) a not so good world (just turn on the news) and situation; which I think we would have a VERY hard time pulling ourselves out of (I do not suspect there will be any living human beings on earth by 2100, the population and destruction of the environment is too great).

    I feel women should have the right to a safe abortion rather than going into a back street alley and looking for someone with a coat hanger.

    I saw this idiot on Fox News channel tonight. When the reporter asked him (almost in a confronting manner for him to reveal what he does, he is accused of taking pictures of women entering clinics, and posting them on the internet), "Do you climb on ladders to get around the barriers posted to keep you out, and shout at women entering clinics 'you will have nightmares for the rest of your life, your soul will burn forever in hell'? There was about a 5 second pause where he stared into the camera before finally saying "Uh, I use certain phrases in conjunction with bibical quotes to counsel women and try to get them to change their mind"

    As GoofyFish would say. Peace
     
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  3. Latexlover Registered Senior Member

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    As a man, I feel that women should have the option/access/right to having an abortion.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2002
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  5. some_guy01 Registered Senior Member

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    I agree it shoud be a choice for women if or if not they want to have an abortion
     
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  7. NightFall Lazy Hedonist Valued Senior Member

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    3,069
    i support abortion for medical reasons completely.

    birth control is available free, after recieveing a (free) *check up* at community health buildings.

    1. you have serious issues with africa
    2. what do yoiu suggest though? fly over hundreds of doctors and a life-time supply of syringes and the depo-shot? you cannot force africans to abort their babies beacuse of their poor lifestyle. although, making it illigal for them to have sex might help out a few things... the aids problem for instance. but as ive said before, ill say again, just let it be, and then start over.

    of course we have a large population, we have vaccinations, and huge medical advances, not to mention the millions of ther factors that are keeping people alive, and longer. we dont have a strong form of population control, so we are only going to get bigger and bigger.

    there really isn't much you can do to stop people from making children in the first place, and abortio can be a very hard thing to live with. ive never really been able to decide myself on wether people should have the choice of abortion, but i do think if come down to rape victims and people at a medical risk to have the choice, but for those who are healthy with a legitimate or *purposeful* child should not have the choice.. but then.. who is it to say who can chose and who cannot? and would this cause women who did want an abortion to accuse innocent men of rape?
     
  8. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    The choice should always be there as have an abortion or not. Nothing to do with medical, rape, or any other extenuating circumstances. The woman must carry to fetus to its inevitable end is the only other choice.

    Should there be no husband, then you have condemned the woman to a life of poverty or certainly a harder life, even if she has some marketable skill. (I do not mean to infer that women are any less marketable in job ability or skill) But there is baby care and raising to be done and food and necessities to be bought. Not all can depend upon family to help out.

    Making abortion illegal was tried and the results were often tragic. Lacking access to qualified doctors and quality medical care many died on someone’s kitchen table or bed because interns or quacks attempted to do the abortion. High tech tools, such as the coat hanger were used because most did not have the access to the proper medical tools. Many were done without anaesthetic because it could not properly or legally be obtained. Ruling abortion illegal will not prevent this.

    Now a case can be made for giving the child to a foster home until it could be adopted. I do not think this is something the government should mandate. It makes a mess for both the parents and the child. They usually wind up trying to find out where there other was made of to later in life. The state will not make that easy. In fact they will refuse to do anything to divulge who or where.

    We are far better that there is an option that is safe...
     
  9. Clarentavious Person Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    934
    I don't have serious issues with Africa, that's just probably where most of the problems (of the type) lie compared to other places. The same thing might be going on in China, but not as much of it. Kind of general, Africa is an entire continent, not a country/nation, state, or city.

    What kind of disturbs me is, alot of us seem to be more concerned with excess material objects and pleasures, than we are trying to help other people get out of a hellish life.

    Many of the people going through this are under 10 years of age, and did not make any decisions that contributed to where they are. They were born into a terrible state. They can't be blamed for anything except the actions of their parents at best.

    Most people under 10 haven't gone through puberty and aren't having sex.

    These people are living in totally different conditions. Their actions are much a result of the circumstances. They wake up every morning in a straw hut sleeping on the mud. We wake up in an air conditioned house on a bed mattress.

    Now if people chose to behave horribly without being provoked, then perhaps I wouldn't be inclined to help them.

    I can certainly see where people like us living in america would want to take advantage of a good life, but how much is good enough?

    If bill gates had 20 billion dollars five years back, he couldn't settle for a $100,000 house rather than a 3 million dollar house. Nope, not enough. Never content. Greed, selfishness. Good, but not perfect. More more.

    Perhaps he could walk up to an 8 year old boy and tell him "My marble statues in my hall mean more to me than you having a single bite to eat once a day" - then see how the 8 year old boy reacts.

    Star Girl does better than I do. She gives about $20 a month to adopt a child over seas (if I recall correctly she stated something very similar to this).

    She doesn't give up everything she has, but she certainly doesn't keep everything for herself and put no effort into helping others.

    I personally feel that the technology we are surrounded by and raised in is too much of a temptation for us.

    Of course, this brings us into many other debates.
     
  10. Clarentavious Person Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    934
    Excuse me, I feel I should come back and correct this. Perhaps my statements after bill gates were a little.......... strong.

    This is all my opinion of course.

    People for the most part and naturally drawn to pleasure and lazy. Perhaps if we would stop and think a little, and consider things, we might not give in so much to our inherit desires, and could put more work into making earth a more stable place.

    There seems to be so little balance. All pleasure, no pain. Always easy, never hard. I don't feel going about your way without analyzing the situation first is the best thing to do.
     
  11. Xev Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,943
    Clarentavious:
    On the contrary, you have my utmost respect for saying something so strongly and which you obviously feel emotional about without becoming too emotional or irrational.

    Nightfall:
    Not everywhere.

    Of course not. Who is forcing them? Nobody. So why bring it up?

    But if they choose to get pregnent, of course they are not going to want to abort!

    I think everyone should have the choice, until the fetus becomes viable - and then only for medical reasons.
     
  12. Tyler Registered Senior Member

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    4,888
    Nightfall: You said that it can be a very difficult thing for a mother to abort. Well, psychologically speaking it is more difficult to go through adoption. After a child is born there is a stronger bond created between mother and child. Giving the child away right after is much harder than aborting an unborn fetus (though this is difficult to many in it's own right).
     
  13. Joeman Eviiiiiiiil Clown Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    2,448
    Okay, I may sound a little evil but here it goes....

    I neither pro-life nor pro-choice. I am pro-abortion. The more the better.

    First of all a fetus is like a vegetable in coma. That is life but sorta not life.

    People should consider abortion if they can't afford the child, especially people of color since there are more children then people can care for AND willing to care for. It may sound shockingly racist for some but it is a fact. White women should consider adoption first because there is a shortage of white babies. The waiting list is very long. Also a white baby is worth a lot of money. I believe people now are willing to pay for $30,000 to adopt a white baby. An Asian baby is about $20,000. The rest don't worth much since there are too many of them.
     
  14. wet1 Wanderer Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    8,616
    Clarentavious

    I agree that there is a lot that the first world countries could do to alleviate problems of third world countries. What we usually run into is greed.

    American citizens, from all that I have seen have to be some of the most giving and generous people on the planet. I do not say this because I am one. Rather I say it because it is very common when a populace has a calamity or catastrophe that you hear a lot on radio, TV, and newspaper of places to call to donate. You also hear what is needed a lot. This is done because Americans give. So much in fact that is why a lot of the time they state what is needed. This to prevent duplication of items that are not needed as much. Maybe it is the same across the world but somehow I doubt that. Correct me if I am wrong on this, as this is opinion.

    Back to greed.

    I stopped giving so much because of the intense scrutiny over heads of organizations living lavish life styles through embezzlement, overhead removing so much of the donated monies that should have gone to aid, even things like 9/11 where Red Cross made the statement that the 9/22 victims basically had enough and they were diverting the money for future disasters. To me that is wrong. If you would help a child send the money straight to the child instead of going through the middlemen. Or send the items that they need through mail or what ever passes in its place. In other words, remove the temptation.

    It is sad that children pay for their parent’s indiscretions, and problems. Doesn’t change the world though. I do not mean to sound cold hearted about it but it is the truth. In order to bring about relief from the scourge of AIDS, safe sex must be practiced. There is no permanent cure for it at this time. No medicine to take that will erase the damage done. This is the only sure-fire method, as you can not catch it from the toilet seat.
    We can say abstinence but in reality people are going to have sex, that is a fact of life and we must deal with that as a given.
     
  15. Dark Master DaRk LoThArIo Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    287
    I just believe it's up to the woman, or the man if he wants to care for the baby, if they want to abort or not. But people just having sex and 'accidently' make a baby with no commitment, marriage, or love. Then I would go for abortion, unless whoevers parents are willing to take care of them. Sad to say, but that baby wasn't really suppose to happen. IMO, people should make a commitment before having a child and in wanting one, and to be able to take care of it.
     

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