View Full Version : Divorce in Islam, and Other Cultural Issues
tresbien
02-19-08, 07:24 AM
Mod Note — This topic is a splinter from "Divorce Because Of (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=77794)". The topic post has been copied from the original discussion.
can a woman ask for divorce if her husband has little experience in sexual intercource.What is the size of the normal private part.
spidergoat
02-19-08, 01:01 PM
That's the problem with Islam. You can't try before you buy.
shorty_37
02-19-08, 01:53 PM
That's the problem with Islam. You can't try before you buy.
Buyer Beware........No Return Policy lol
pjdude1219
02-20-08, 08:34 AM
That's the problem with Islam. You can't try before you buy.
that is by far the most unpc yet funniest thing i have ever heard
Mod Note — This is a relevant excerpt of a longer post from the original topic. Extraneous material has been removed.
That's the problem with Islam. You can't try before you buy.
Well, same thing with Christianity. Culturally, though, the difference is apostasy. Says a lot about our values that in the West we simply prefer the insincere.
Don't get me wrong: I'm a firm advocate of non-marital sex. And, hey, in the United States and some other nations, you can "try before you buy", so it's not purely about the religion.
That's the problem with Islam. You can't try before you buy.
It's better than your Western culture, which makes a lucrative business by exposing people's insecurities to the fullest.
spidergoat
02-21-08, 05:12 PM
It's better than your Western culture, which makes a lucrative business by exposing people's insecurities to the fullest.
Just like Islam. I subscribe to neither.
Just like Islam. I subscribe to neither.
It's not the Muslims who spend tens of thousands of dollars to make their dicks/breasts larger, make their noses smaller, become anorexic or bulimic, etc, simply to become the standard perception of beauty. It's the Western culture that makes people think their body isn't normal, for the sole purpose of taking their money to make them look as they're "supposed" to.
Get your priorities straight.
Why is this a discussion on Islam?
Anyway, Muslims can divorce for sexual incompatibility and get remarried in 40 days, so you can try try try try and then return.
I know a girl who divorced a guy cos he liked the backdoor approach too much.
No big deal.
Yeah, I suppose Indian "Muslims" can.
Yeah, I suppose Indian "Muslims" can.
I see you follow the modern (post-Christianity) form of Islam
Judith Tucker's rewarding study of Islamic law in seventeenth and eighteenth-century Syria and Palestine titled "In the House of the Law," talks about a period when Muslim legal thinkers gave considerable attention to women's roles in society, and Tucker shows how fatwas, or legal opinions, greatly influenced these roles. She challenges prevailing views on Islam and gender, revealing Islamic law to have been more fluid and flexible than previously thought.. In the book Tucker studies court records from Ottoman-Syria and concludes:
1. The Shariah courts were available and popular with women
2. The courts took upon themselves the task of defending women's Islamic rights against the vagaries of custom. For example they would insist on her right to a share of the inheritance or her right to refuse a marriage proposal against her family's or communities desires.
3obtaining a divorce was easy for women who could prove one of the following:
-mental abuse
-sexual incompatibility
-the mistreatment of her family
-abandonment for a year's time
These conditions are no longer applied in the modern shari'a family courts.
Guess we missed the revolution. :rolleyes:
So something is permissible in Islam because 17th-18th century Syrian societies practiced it? Oh, you Indian "Muslims" and your convenient excuses!
I see you follow the modern (post-Christianity) form of Islam
I've said time and again I'm a traditionalist. What I see today makes me gag.
Mod Note — Edit to remove personal insult.
So something is permissible in Islam because 17th-18th century Syrian societies practiced it? Oh, you Indian "Muslims" and your convenient excuses!.
I've said time and again I'm a traditionalist. What I see today makes me gag
Some traditionalist, you cannot even recognise how the Prophet treated his wives, what you are is a pseudo-Wahabi, the "traditionalists" I see today are the ones who do not recognise that women were given rights 1400 years ago that some modern societies have yet to recognise.
Some traditionalist, you cannot even recognise how the Prophet treated his wives, what you are is a pseudo-Wahabi, the "traditionalists" I see today are the ones who do not recognise that women were given rights 1400 years ago that some modern societies have yet to recognise.
I know how the Prophet treated his wives like the back of my hand. And why are we diverging to women's rights here? The topic is sexual incompatibility, which is irrespective of gender, meaning men and women have equal say in the matter. Your liberal viewpoints of Islam are merely excuses to justify your pro-Western longings and lifestyle; you have no basis in saying I am not a traditionalist. Indian "Muslims" have gone from Kings to a crushed minority, all because of people like you. You notice the mote in my eye, but not the beam in yours.
Is it common to find men who seek divorce for sexual incompatibility?
Is it common to find men who seek divorce for sexual incompatibility?
Why not? Has research on the topic been done? If you want an example, look no further than Tiassa. Every now and then he likes to complain about how terrible his wife is in bed.
Mod Note — This is a relevant excerpt of a longer post from the original topic. Extraneous material has been removed.
It's not the Muslims who spend tens of thousands of dollars to make their dicks/breasts larger, make their noses smaller, become anorexic or bulimic, etc, simply to become the standard perception of beauty. It's the Western culture that makes people think their body isn't normal, for the sole purpose of taking their money to make them look as they're "supposed" to.
Get your priorities straight.
You know, Kadark, at this point even I am tempted to make a point about who forces their women to cover themselves from head to toe and says it's for the benefit of their dignity.
It suggests certain depths of bigotry when you're willing to be condescending about what would otherwise be common ground between you and another.
You know, Kadark, at this point even I am tempted to make a point about who forces their women to cover themselves from head to toe and says it's for the benefit of their dignity.
How many places in the Muslim world force the burkha? Very few.
It's not the Muslims who spend tens of thousands of dollars to make their dicks/breasts larger, make their noses smaller, become anorexic or bulimic, etc, simply to become the standard perception of beauty. It's the Western culture that makes people think their body isn't normal, for the sole purpose of taking their money to make them look as they're "supposed" to.
Get your priorities straight.
Indeed.
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL25320251
Instead, many Muslims (in France and elsewhere) are caving in to family and social pressure and having their hymen's reconstructed. So how are they any different to women who decide to get a boob job?
Sitting in the same cafe, a 19-year-old Moroccan studying in Paris who asked to be called Amel spoke just before her first consultation with Abecassis.
"I dated a boy when I was 15 and I didn't even realise what had happened," she said, referring to her first and only sexual experience. "I didn't understand what I did."
Her parents introduced her to a young man earlier this year, and they plan to wed when she returns to Morocco in June. But he would not accept a non-virgin, so she needs the operation soon.
You were saying about making people into what they were supposed to look like Kadark?
Bells:
It would never have been a problem for her if she didn't have sex with another guy before her marriage that was to happen later that year. Not surprisingly, it happened in France (a country under heavy Western influence).
You were saying?
Bells:
It would never have been a problem for her if she didn't have sex with another guy before her marriage that was to happen sooner that year. Not surprisingly, it happened in France (a country under heavy Western influence).
You were saying?
Yes?
An exponent of the hymen cult is hymen reconstruction (hymenorrhaphy, hymenoplasty)[123] said to occur in Morcocco[124], Egypt[125], Jordan[126], and also China. Hymen repair is illegal in most Arab countries but is said to have been performed unofficially throughout the Islamic world, with specialists doing five or six a week. The matter presents ethical issues in non-Islamic countries[127]. Of course, Islamic doctors are well aware of the fact that the coital truth of anatomical non-intactness is not a complete one. At the Medical Jurisprudence Third Symposium on "The Islamic Vision of Some Medical Practices" held from 18-21 April, 1987 A.D., Sheikh M. Al-Ghazali argued: "I swear to God, girls have come to me, they only played with themselves, and I believe them because their tears were faster than their words […][128]". El Saadawi (1980: p15-8)[129] relates that girls are refrained from masturbation by fear for their hymen; on the other hand, they would be frequently touched by their brothers.
http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/GESUND/ARCHIV/GUS/MIDDLEEASTOLD.HTM#_Toc26337626
This is also interesting reading. (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article1756072.ece)
Bells:
You're going off topic. I'm talking about how the Western culture exploits people's insecurities to physically change the way they look, all for money. You're talking about how sexual activity is viewed in certain Middle Eastern countries. Please try to stick to the topic at hand.
spidergoat
02-21-08, 07:29 PM
You act like it's either one or the other. Culture in general is a scam. Consumerism is no one's culture, it's just the triumph of con men over good taste and craftsmanship.
Bells:
You're going off topic. I'm talking about how the Western culture exploits people's insecurities to physically change the way they look, all for money. You're talking about how sexual activity is viewed in certain Middle Eastern countries. Please try to stick to the topic at hand.
And I am reminding you that some cultures place ridiculous expectations, sometimes with risk of harm, abuse or death, if the individual does not adhere to said expectations. You find it easy to criticise the West for their exploits, without realising your own society also has such expectations, leading women to undergo surgery to repair their hymen, whether they had sex or not, because their family and spouse to be demands they are virgins when married. In short, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
The topic at hand is whether it is acceptable to ask for divorce if the couple's sex life is bad or the other person in the marriage is bad in bed.
Mod Note — This is a relevant excerpt of a longer post from the original topic. Extraneous material has been removed.
You find it easy to criticise the West for their exploits, without realising your own society also has such expectations, leading women to undergo surgery to repair their hymen, whether they had sex or not, because their family and spouse to be demands they are virgins when married. In short, don't throw stones when you live in a glass house.
Which society are you referring to when you say "your own society"?
What expectations of beauty does "my society" uphold?
Which society are you referring to when you say "your own society"?
Oh.. I should have said that many of the same faith as you.
What expectations of beauty does "my society" uphold?
Change "beauty" to "purity" and you might actually get it.
If you want an example, look no further than Tiassa. Every now and then he likes to complain about how terrible his wife is in bed.
You really should learn to pay attention, Kadark. I wasn't stupid enough to marry her.
Which, it would seem, is one of the recurring themes of this topic. I'm sorry if I confused you by not making the point about not marrying her, but since you're aware that I mention the issue every now and then, I would think you could have picked that part up by now.
Oh.. I should have said that many of the same faith as you.
That's still incorrect. People of my faith are very diverse. You have Muslims that think the burkha is mandatory for all women (of any age), and you have Muslims who think it is unIslamic. Most people of my faith disagree on many issues with me.
Change "beauty" to "purity" and you might actually get it.
Again, "purity" has nothing to do with it.
You really should learn to pay attention, Kadark. I wasn't stupid enough to marry her.
Do you say things like this to her in person? "I'm so happy we're together, but thank God I wasn't stupid enough to marry you!"
Which, it would seem, is one of the recurring themes of this topic. I'm sorry if I confused you by not making the point about not marrying her, but since you're aware that I mention the issue every now and then, I would think you could have picked that part up by now.
Well, did you describe her as a "girlfriend" or as a "partner"? Maybe the wording confused me. Or maybe, small details about your relationship with women seem to go through one ear and out the other with me. Who knows?
Mod Hat — Advisory
This topic has been split out from "Divorce Because Of (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=77794)". The posts included here are removed in full or part from the prior discussion, with the exception of the topic post, which was reproduced for reference purposes.
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Leo Volont
02-23-08, 08:23 AM
And how many western women would announce on their wedding night that they were supremely accomplished sluts?
Any woman who marries a man whose obsessive hobby is sex sex sex... well, she deserves what she gets.
No man whose hobby is sex will EVER be faithfull.
Oh, and any woman who is obsessed with sex as a hobby will never be faithful to her husband.
A slut is a slut is a slut is a slut.
Mod Note — This topic is a splinter from "Divorce Because Of (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=77794)". The topic post has been copied from the original discussion.
can a woman ask for divorce if her husband has little experience in sexual intercource.What is the size of the normal private part.
How many places in the Muslim world force the burkha? Very few.
Is it even acceptable to have one place?
That's still incorrect. People of my faith are very diverse. You have Muslims that think the burkha is mandatory for all women (of any age), and you have Muslims who think it is unIslamic. Most people of my faith disagree on many issues with me.
That kind of rules out the claim of Muslims that Islam is perfect?
Leo Volont
02-23-08, 12:32 PM
That kind of rules out the claim of Muslims that Islam is perfect?
There is no claim in Islam that it is perfect.
Aren't you ashamed to be just making this shit up as you go along?
But the real problem with Islam is Deterministic Falatlism. that is to say that God is Omnipotent and that EVERYTHING that happens is thus necessarily the WILL OF GOD.
Well, the political effects of having a populace that widely believes in fatalisitic determinism, is that they THINK that whatever they can get away with must be the WILL OF GOD.
This DETERMINISTIC FATALISM along with everything about glorifying the SWORD leads to every problem with Islam.
Unfortunately the Koran tells all those stupid Rag Heads that Might Makes Right. They might as well be making a Prophet of George Boush.
There is no claim in Islam that it is perfect.
Aren't you ashamed to be just making this shit up as you go along?
Making (http://www.wefound.org/texts/Islam_files/IslamPerfectReligion.htm) it (http://www.al-basheer.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=11057&type=store) up, (http://www.thewaytotruth.org/) me? (http://www.alislam.org/books/my-relig/part1.html)
So you personally think atheism is severely flawed?
Leo Volont
02-23-08, 12:52 PM
I know that all of you are used to a stupid and uneducated audience which is very tolerant to receiving what ever imaginary thing you choose to post.
But in the REAL WORLD it will be asked if any of it is REAL.
Making (http://www.wefound.org/texts/Islam_files/IslamPerfectReligion.htm) it (http://www.al-basheer.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?item=11057&type=store) up, (http://www.thewaytotruth.org/) me? (http://www.alislam.org/books/my-relig/part1.html)
But in the REAL WORLD it will be asked if any of it is REAL.
Show us the REAL WORLD, Leo! :yay:
Leo Volont
02-23-08, 01:15 PM
Show us the REAL WORLD, Leo! :yay:
This is where it begins to matter whether one is intelligent or stupid.
One can lead a horse to water but cannot make it drink.
Intelligence measures the ability of a person to predict the future from the perceived current events.
Intelligence supposes that a person can create an intellectual model of the Universe that can project into the future.
For instance, an intelligent person who is accepted for a Job and told that he will start on Monday morning, that he will show up on Monday morning. His Model of the Universe was able to put that all together for him.
But sometimes we are not asked to show up. We are not tested. And so we are allowed to persist in our own delusions and inconsistencies.
So, I can not show you the TRUTH.
But I can ask you to look at THINGS and EVENTS and project into the future what you think will be the likely consequences.
If you are delusional, then your projections will be wrong. Then you will have to realize that your thinking is dysfunctional and that perhaps you have been projecting along side the wrong premise and mind set.
So, in a few words I cannot tell you the truth of all things. Only a good education and a conscientious faculty of dicsernment can do that for you.
Oh, and here is a story. After Jesus had cured ten blind men and had given them there vision, a man came to Jesus pulling his idiot brother by the ear, and he asked Jesus to heal him. Jesus said, "I can't heal stupid".
NO, NO, NO, Leo! Tell us how you REALLY feel?
Leo Volont
02-23-08, 02:25 PM
So for once in your life somebody takes one of your posts seriously and THIS is the way you respond?
Okay, I guess you WANT to be a JOKE for the rest of your life.
NO, NO, NO, Leo! Tell us how you REALLY feel?
Michael
02-23-08, 07:59 PM
can a woman ask for divorce if her husband has little experience in sexual intercource.What is the size of the normal private part.
If a man or a woman are unhappy sexually they should be able to leave the marrage. having little experience may not be a bad thing if he is willing to learn from his wife to do what she likes, and she as well. Sex is important in a healthy relationship.
I was just talking to a friend of mine over drinks last night, she hasn`t had sex in over one year with her boy friend because she doesn`t feel anything anymore sexually for him. And he is not good in bed. Well, I`d hate to imagine if the women had no recorse. Shit!! At least she can move on if she decides to do so. I hope they stay as a couple because they`re both nice people, but, if she`s not happy after 4 years then maybe time to move on.
As for size. That may or may not mater depending on if the woman has an intervaginal deep oragim or only clitoral. aka does she have a G spot or not.
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