if god exists then.. [Archive]

pharaohmoan

02-08-08, 06:19 AM

If only you all realised that this world is not far removed from hell. In other words it is mostly based on greed and what people can acquire materialistically. You should also realise this world is probably so far removed from purity which is what God essentially is.

Don't be convinced that all the good people are going to heaven, my guess is its more than that. It's probably more about whether you can be at one with a higher organism. Whether you understand true expression and pure thought, can you for example interpret harmony in reality, have you seen reality vibrating at a higher frequency? How did you react? You see people rarely think for themselves and are mostly products of sociological imprints. True individuals are hard to come by, but it is those people who are most likely to learn of Gods existence. When I mean God I don't mean God the singularity but rather the universal womb, ie God the plural.

I don't think knowing the bible and converting others is enough to get you a pass to heaven. I don't practice religion yet I am probably more spiritual on track than most Christians.

It's not a question of if God exists, look around do you really wholeheartedly think that reality is a fluke? I see organisation everywhere and that comes with guidance, a higher hand so to speak. Move up that chain and eventually you will reach the God head.
Movement begets movement, the first mover is God. Movement is therefore proof of God.

Dr Lou Natic

02-08-08, 06:30 AM

Is this anything like goatse. cx?

Leo Volont

02-09-08, 10:56 AM

sevral questions in one

if god exsiste, then why won't he show himself and prove it?

if god is so kind, then how can he condem millons to deth in hell just becuase there parents taught them a false religon

how can god exsiste?

:confused::):p

You question imply your own religious assumptions.

you assume that God cares a great deal about the different Religious Affiliations. whereas the Saints tell us that God is concerned only about Morality. No Moral Person goes to Hell.

About God proving Himself. Well, doesn't he? Everyone Dreams. if one follows the Wise Advice given by dreams then one is lead to God. But if you are some silly stupid airhead who just cares about drugs and getting laid, then it is likely you won't be paying mucyh attention. But that is not God's fault. People who want to be pigs know what they are doing. People who have a natural spiritual aspiration also know what they are doing.

You see, God does not CREATE people. People create people. We are the products of our mothers and fathers and their mothers and fathers. If our predessors were good and decent people with Spiritual Aspirations, then it is likely we will be also. But if you father was a drug dealing pimp and your mother was a crack whore and all you want to do is dance and get high, then you are not too likely to be actively investigating signs of Divinity in your Life and Dreams.

If most people have reverted back to animals, its not God's fault. There are 7 Billion People on Earth now. God probably only needs about 100 Million. So Screw the 6 Billion 900 Million people who want to screw anyway.

original

02-09-08, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by pharaohmoan

If only you all realised that this world is not far removed from hell.

If only more people realized that this world could be a heaven! What's wrong with it? An abundance of life and land, beauty everywhere... physical, mental, and emotional pleasures... what makes Earth hell instead of heaven? Isn't Jesus supposed to establish some kind of heavenly kingdom here on Earth?

Myles

02-09-08, 12:07 PM

You question imply your own religious assumptions.

you assume that God cares a great deal about the different Religious Affiliations. whereas the Saints tell us that God is concerned only about Morality. No Moral Person goes to Hell.

About God proving Himself. Well, doesn't he? Everyone Dreams. if one follows the Wise Advice given by dreams then one is lead to God. But if you are some silly stupid airhead who just cares about drugs and getting laid, then it is likely you won't be paying mucyh attention. But that is not God's fault. People who want to be pigs know what they are doing. People who have a natural spiritual aspiration also know what they are doing.

You see, God does not CREATE people. People create people. We are the products of our mothers and fathers and their mothers and fathers. If our predessors were good and decent people with Spiritual Aspirations, then it is likely we will be also. But if you father was a drug dealing pimp and your mother was a crack whore and all you want to do is dance and get high, then you are not too likely to be actively investigating signs of Divinity in your Life and Dreams.

If most people have reverted back to animals, its not God's fault. There are 7 Billion People on Earth now. God probably only needs about 100 Million. So Screw the 6 Billion 900 Million people who want to screw anyway.

I have seldom read a more facile answer.

Leo Volont

02-09-08, 11:58 PM

I have seldom read a more facile answer.

My, I actually needed to look up "facile" and still have to wonder about what this means.

Oh, re-reading my own posting, I must apologize for all of the typos... you see, one saves so much time by not doing an editorial readthrough before hitting the PUBLISH button, but it IS a bad habit...

Michael

02-10-08, 06:12 PM

Myles

02-10-08, 06:27 PM

My, I actually needed to look up "facile" and still have to wonder about what this means.

Oh, re-reading my own posting, I must apologize for all of the typos... you see, one saves so much time by not doing an editorial readthrough before hitting the PUBLISH button, but it IS a bad habit...

Iwas not referring to your typos. Sorry for making you look up facile.

What I was getting at was the confident statements you made without a scrap of evidence to support them .Could you please try again in this manner:

I know God only needs a given numberof people because..... ( say how you know and offer some evidence)

SnakeLord

02-10-08, 06:54 PM

If only you all realised that this world is not far removed from hell. In other words it is mostly based on greed and what people can acquire materialistically.

I don't get it. What's wrong with wanting an iPod and a TV? How is that an indication that "this world is not far removed from hell"? All I see are poor people whining. It was the same in the bible.. a bunch of rag wearing peasants whining at the rich folk..

It's not that they're any closer to gods or heavens, it's just that they're jealous because they're peasants and thus create some fictional nonsense to somehow try and deflate their own anger at being peasants.

Saquist

02-11-08, 02:20 AM

sevral questions in one

if god exsiste, then why won't he show himself and prove it?

if god is so kind, then how can he condem millons to deth in hell just becuase there parents taught them a false religon

how can god exsiste?

:confused::):p

I thing we must address is that God is not a physical being but a person of infinite energy. He has no physical form to see. But your question likely is the form of the common inquiry, "Why does God not make himself known?"

The record of Israel in the bible exemplified that miracles and manifestations had only a temporary effect. They were displays of power and invoked fear. Fear wears away but according to the 2 Cor 13:8 "love never fails."

Simply put there is enough information for us to ascertain the truth. We don't need signs and portents to deduce the truth. Secondly this is the time which was set aside to determine what is the truth without interference from God. That time will not last forever though.

------

Hell is not Fire and Brimstone. That's a misconception produced by Dante's Inferno which was loosely based on the Bible. The Bible describes death and Hell just as science records it, inactivity, the loss of life's energy, unconsciousness. We know the bibles view is that all deserver death.

Jesus's sacrificed provided and escape for that.

Thus the bible says there will be "a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous." Thus rest assured from the biblical perspective, not all "bad" or unrighteous people will be destroyed forever. They'll be given an opportunity to learn otherwise in a much better enviroment.

But you gotta hang in there.
The first thing that must be settled according to scripture is who is in charge. God, Satan, or us.....

Myles

02-11-08, 05:16 AM

sevral questions in one

if god exsiste, then why won't he show himself and prove it?

if god is so kind, then how can he condem millons to deth in hell just becuase there parents taught them a false religon

how can god exsiste?

:confused::):p

The answer to all your questions is that there is not a shred of evidence that god exists. People who do not see the need for empirical evidence are wont to make all sorts of statements about god and, in so doing, mislead others.

If you talk to Christians, for example, the answers you get will vary depending on who you are talking to. Ask about hell. If you ask Adstar, he will tell you that hell is a lake of fire into which sinners will be cast for all eternity. Ask a Jesuit, as I have done, and he will probably tell you that god does not send anyone to hell. His answer is that hell is simply not being in god's presence; if we die in a state of sin, we cannot bear to be in god's presence so we exile ourselves. You will be given lots of answers but no evidence other than references to the Bible and what people believe.

So the first difficulty you will have is deciding who has the right answer. Remember they all base their beliefs on the Bible but they interpret it in various ways.

Muslims will quote the Koran and , as far as I can make out, their beliefs are more consistent than those of Christians. I think the same could be said of Judaism but I am not certain as my knowlege of that religion is very limited.

To see how the hoax works, let me give you an example.

I tell you that there is a place called Oz where a powerful wizard lives. You ask me how I know that and I tell you all the proof you need is to be found in a book. Now ask me why I believe the book and I will say I know Oz exists because a girl called Dorothy has been there, Now ask how can Dorothy knows and I will tell you the wizard sent her a dream. Why should you believe her dream ? Because the wizard has chosen her as his messenger to tell the world about Oz, Dorothy is unique because the wizard has not sent that dream to anyone else. Do you get my drift ?

If I told you that I knew there were elephants on mars would you take my word for it or would you ask for evidence.Most people would do so. Now I can give you a range of answers depending on the circumstances, such as,

I have been there and seen them. I got to Mars and back in a way unknown to scientists because their outllook is materialistic rather than spiritual,

I cannot show you a picture of Martian elephants because they are invisible to non-believers. However if you follow my instructions you may ,in time ,get to see the elephants.

If you continue to question me I can play my trump card; I can say, well you prove that they don't exist. For somebody who has an understanding of philosophical debate. it will be obvious that I am trying to put you on the spot by asking you to do the impossible.No one can prove that something does not exist. In a rational debate the onus is on me to prove to the satisfaction of others that there are elephants on Mars. That is the only way a debate can be conducted because otherwise people can say anything, however stupid, and blame you for not agreeing with them.

If you question those who tell you about what god wants us to do, why is he so wonderful, why we cannot see him and so on ASK FOR PROOF. And that proof needs to me more than telling you it is written in some book.

Try asking someone who tells you that we cannot see god ,how that person knows god exists. And in listening to their answer, remember what I said about the wizard of Oz.

I you have any further questions or would like me to comment on anything you have read or been told, please feel free to ask and I will do mu best to oblige. The one thing I will not do is to ask you to believe what I say just because I said so. Why should you ?

chuuush

02-11-08, 05:23 AM

sevral questions in one

if god exsiste, then why won't he show himself and prove it?

if god is so kind, then how can he condem millons to deth in hell just becuase there parents taught them a false religon

how can god exsiste?

:confused::):p

You should first address this issue: Do you not believe in the existence of a God or you do not WANT to believe so?
Why should God show Himself to you if you are just so blind not too see the logical necessity for His existence all around you. How can this vast infinite universe be there without an intelligenct creator. If your logic accepts this, go on then...

And who told you God condemns millions to death just because there parents chose a wrong religion. These are the lies mindless fanatics only believe. No one knows who will be admitted into the paradise and who will not. I do not believe that paradise is exclusive to members of one religion only; Instead I think that anybody who believes in him with a sincere heart and does good deeds will be rewarded with eternal bounties indifferent of their religion. It is not necessarily correct that x goes to paradise because he is a muslim and y goes to the hell because he is a jew. It all depends on your deeds in this world. And by the way God has given people intelligence and logic to reason for themselves and find the correct way, religion included.

pharaohmoan

02-11-08, 05:55 AM

You should first address this issue: Do you not believe in the existence of a God or you do not WANT to believe so?
Why should God show Himself to you if you are just so blind not too see the logical necessity for His existence all around you. How can this vast infinite universe be there without an intelligenct creator. If your logic accepts this, go on then...

I wholeheartidly agree with you, yet there are many who think that their consciousness and what has gone before ie creation is a fluke. To me that is illogical and flies in the face of common sense. My guess is God for some unknown reason wanted us to have faith and with that faith make other leaps of faith, now if you pile faith upon faith the same happens as when you pile infomation on information you get a whole new view of reality a much more etherically intellectual view that allows one to see for the first time to breath a real breath and receive a response from nature and the world around. Yes I believe that without faith in a higher organation and lets face it even the quantum world look organised, then you can't make assumpstions that lead to question which are not yet answerable or may never be answerable, that doesn't mean they are not real. those who yel prove this and prove that are either dogmatically scared of the unknown or get this cannot employ new paramaters into thier belief system. In other words they have structured their mind in such a way so as to bring in new factors not based on the known causes a breakdown of their normal opperating system and functions. :D

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-11-08, 06:04 AM

Myles

02-11-08, 06:15 AM

You should first address this issue: Do you not believe in the existence of a God or you do not WANT to believe so?
Why should God show Himself to you if you are just so blind not too see the logical necessity for His existence all around you. How can this vast infinite universe be there without an intelligenct creator. If your logic accepts this, go on then...

And who told you God condemns millions to death just because there parents chose a wrong religion. These are the lies mindless fanatics only believe. No one knows who will be admitted into the paradise and who will not. I do not believe that paradise is exclusive to members of one religion only; Instead I think that anybody who believes in him with a sincere heart and does good deeds will be rewarded with eternal bounties indifferent of their religion. It is not necessarily correct that x goes to paradise because he is a muslim and y goes to the hell because he is a jew. It all depends on your deeds in this world. And by the way God has given people intelligence and logic to reason for themselves and find the correct way, religion included.

I think the first question that should be addressed is that of evidence for god's existence, In the absence of such evidence, all the rest becomes totally meaningless.

pharaohmoan

02-11-08, 06:26 AM

I think the first question that should be addressed is that of evidence for god's existence, In the absence of such evidence, all the rest becomes totally meaningless.

So you don't believe in any higher organisation at all, and everyone who believes in God is either deluded, misguided or mad? Then you won't mind at all if I steal your soul after you die? Bids for Myles soul have just started any takers?!

chuuush

02-11-08, 06:44 AM

I wholeheartidly agree with you, yet there are many who think that their consciousness and what has gone before ie creation is a fluke. To me that is illogical and flies in the face of common sense. My guess is God for some unknown reason wanted us to have faith and with that faith make other leaps of faith, now if you pile faith upon faith the same happens as when you pile infomation on information you get a whole new view of reality a much more etherically intellectual view that allows one to see for the first time to breath a real breath and receive a response from nature and the world around. Yes I believe that without faith in a higher organation and lets face it even the quantum world look organised, then you can't make assumpstions that lead to question which are not yet answerable or may never be answerable, that doesn't mean they are not real. those who yel prove this and prove that are either dogmatically scared of the unknown or get this cannot employ new paramaters into thier belief system. In other words they have structured their mind in such a way so as to bring in new factors not based on the known causes a breakdown of their normal opperating system and functions. :D

The very fact that you can put together this very awesome pile of incomprehensible statements to make your point is enough to prove there is a God :D

chuuush

02-11-08, 06:46 AM

You can find existence of Bart Simpson around you, if you want to look for it.
I think there is a confusion between existence and reality the reason why God does not communicate or show itself is because it is not real (it is a mis-understood concept). Even though it exists you have as much of a chance of meeting God as you do taking Scooby Doo for a walk or giving Bart Simpson a wedgie:wallbang:

Can you explain your point a bit more clearly?

chuuush

02-11-08, 06:47 AM

I think the first question that should be addressed is that of evidence for god's existence, In the absence of such evidence, all the rest becomes totally meaningless.

What kind of evidence do you need for that? Sicentific evidence or what?

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-11-08, 06:48 AM

So you don't believe in any higher organisation at all,
I understand organisation but "Higher Organisation" is just added mysticism higher than what or who how can Organistations be greater than the Organisers themselves.
Then you won't mind at all if I steal your soul after you die? Bids for Myles soul have just started any takers?!
£2.43....Do you have pay pal?:deal::mufc::deal:

Myles

02-11-08, 08:25 AM

So you don't believe in any higher organisation at all, and everyone who believes in God is either deluded, misguided or mad? Then you won't mind at all if I steal your soul after you die? Bids for Myles soul have just started any takers?!

Please feel free to take my soul. How will you know when you have found it? What size is it, what colour is it, how much does it weigh?

Myles

02-11-08, 08:32 AM

What kind of evidence do you need for that? Sicentific evidence or what?

The sort of evidence I, or any reasonable person, would expect If you said you had an uncle who was 20' tall and invisible.

To put it another way, what sort of evidence would you ask for if I told you I was convinced there were fairies at the bottom of my garden?

Spud Emperor

02-11-08, 08:34 AM

To put it another way, what sort of evidence would you ask for if I told you I was convinced there were fairies at the bottom of my garden.

Empty bottle of absinthe.

back to the thread.

Myles

02-11-08, 08:34 AM

I understand organisation but "Higher Organisation" is just added mysticism higher than what or who how can Organistations be greater than the Organisers themselves.

£2.43....Do you have pay pal?:deal::mufc::deal:

Now uou have offended me. I would expect at least £ 1,000 for a carefully used, pre-owned soul. Pre-owned is superior to secondhand any day.

Myles

02-11-08, 08:37 AM

Empty bottle of absinthe.

back to the thread.

That's the stuff that killed Toulouse Lautrec and freed his soul. See you back on thread

Spud Emperor

02-11-08, 08:42 AM

S'awl smoke and mirrors to me.
sold me soul to the fishmonger.
's ole ting got me all confused.
devil wears diamond souled shoes.

Myles

02-11-08, 09:04 AM

S'awl smoke and mirrors to me.
sold me soul to the fishmonger.
's ole ting got me all confused.
devil wears diamond souled shoes.

Your soul reason for posting seems to be to make fun of my ass-soul.

Back on thread, is there a relationship betwen one's physical size and that of the sole. What proportion of your bodyweight isaccounted for by your soul ?

PsychoticEpisode

02-11-08, 09:24 AM

If you want to believe God has made an appearance then that is your right. However, it is wrong to preach it religiously. Until God makes a personal appearance, then it is simply guesswork, it is not gospel.

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-11-08, 09:33 AM

Can you explain your point a bit more clearly?

Since professional exegesis on the bible, on its history and origins as opposed to its context has been done you can pinpoint its origins within a 100 years or so, so you can find the beginings of the One God concept and under what conditions they were written.
Man has always created Gods as to his own needs Odin,Kali,Jupiter,Allah,Yahweh e.t.c the list is endless.
Even early man thought modern day natural occurances vengence of Gods tsunami's, volcano's,thunder,lightning,pestilence e.t.c. and thought gifts/sacrifice would appease this. This was the only logical explanation at the time mysticism becomes triviality in the blink of an eye.
One God concept the ideals of a one God as opposed to a range of Gods,a God of Gods has not always been around.Through the crusades it wiped out many forms of deity worship deemed as heresy, for the 1 true God.
The literatary content, bearing in mind not many people could read or write and scribe was a much sort after job so story's which gave foundation to heritage were handed down by word of mouth.Think of the distortion between what your grandad told you a about life and how you see life today.
A few generations of chinese whisper's and =

Noah built an ark took, two of evey animal and sailed out in the flood which covered the earth.

There is a flood or poss tidal wave, the land cannot feed the people or cattle,a man named Mo-ah (poss) has a fishing boat and takes 2 of every animal they know 2sheep,goats,camels,dog,cows and thats prob it and sailed out to sea to find somewhere green,as man did not travel as a norm their knowledge of the world was around 500sq miles (in my opinion).

Jesus cured blind people, we know that in india and other parts of the world they were removing cataracts well before the time he was about,and as he travelled the chances are that someone showed him how to do it.

Fed the 5000 with a few fish and some bread, divide the 5000 by 3, double the amount of food, you make fish soup with croutons,you can ferment a variety of plants/fruits into alcohol some only take a few days you have water into wine.or they had some wine but watered it down.

Most things are hugely glorified but are probably an everyday norm now,which is not to say it didn't happen.
My belief,religion,tribal tendancies or eccentricities revolve around man and nature only so there is no needs for gods,god,paridise,hell.
I put some posts on 'Proof of god' posts 72,74,76,78,80 as to the difference between reality and existence because there is a big and defining difference between them both.also in 'the modern prophet'
I've got a book which i've been reading for about a year or so it's written by one of the greatest theologian's a Jesuit called 'HENRI DE LUBAC' the book is 'THE DRAMA OF ATHIEST HUMANISM' publisher 'IGNATIUS' which is his look at the great philosophers and fact, and gave me understand as to both sides of the argument. There are many things that exist which are not real type into google, if it exists you will find it fairys,unicorns etc you get sites for them because they exist but they are not real. If you type in Tabblefunkichocohol you should get nothing as it is not real and doesn't exist there is nothing wrong in hailing the existence of God as long as you can percieve the form it exists in,you cannot say it doesn't exist becuase it is not real or there is no proof as many things exit which aren't real but we don't question their existence. Pheew I need a cup of tea

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-11-08, 09:38 AM

Now uou have offended me. I would expect at least £ 1,000 for a carefully used, pre-owned soul. Pre-owned is superior to secondhand any day.

Yes your majesty... sorry your majesty lol
any bids on £2.43 going once.........
:worship::worship::bravo:

pharaohmoan

02-11-08, 09:44 AM

Please feel free to take my soul. How will you know when you have found it? What size is it, what colour is it, how much does it weigh?

Well the funny thing is you don't know you have one until 1) you either fight for it or 2)You no longer have it.

Appartantly yours is the normal weight of 21 grammes it's colour is shrouded in a dull grey and it is the size of a small mustard seed.

chuuush

02-11-08, 09:55 AM

The sort of evidence I, or any reasonable person, would expect If you said you had an uncle who was 20' tall and invisible.

To put it another way, what sort of evidence would you ask for if I told you I was convinced there were fairies at the bottom of my garden?

How could you prove that the universe came about? Did it happen all out of accident?

Myles

02-11-08, 10:02 AM

Well the funny thing is you don't know you have one until 1) you either fight for it or 2)You no longer have it.

Appartantly yours is the normal weight of 21 grammes it's colour is shrouded in a dull grey and it is the size of a small mustard seed.

I only find one bit hard to understand,. Where can I find a mustard seed that weighs 21 grammes ? The rest is perfectly clear.

Myles

02-11-08, 10:05 AM

How could you prove that the universe came about? Did it happen all out of accident?

I don't know. There is a lot of scientiofic evidence that supports the Big Bang theory but the honest answer is that at this point in time no one be certain.

What is your opinion ?

pharaohmoan

02-11-08, 02:00 PM

I only find one bit hard to understand,. Where can I find a mustard seed that weighs 21 grammes ? The rest is perfectly clear.

The wait has nothing to do with it, going twice to my house mate for £2.43

chuuush

02-11-08, 03:14 PM

Since professional exegesis on the bible, on its history and origins as opposed to its context has been done you can pinpoint its origins within a 100 years or so, so you can find the beginings of the One God concept and under what conditions they were written.
Man has always created Gods as to his own needs Odin,Kali,Jupiter,Allah,Yahweh e.t.c the list is endless.
Even early man thought modern day natural occurances vengence of Gods tsunami's, volcano's,thunder,lightning,pestilence e.t.c. and thought gifts/sacrifice would appease this. This was the only logical explanation at the time mysticism becomes triviality in the blink of an eye.
One God concept the ideals of a one God as opposed to a range of Gods,a God of Gods has not always been around.Through the crusades it wiped out many forms of deity worship deemed as heresy, for the 1 true God.
The literatary content, bearing in mind not many people could read or write and scribe was a much sort after job so story's which gave foundation to heritage were handed down by word of mouth.Think of the distortion between what your grandad told you a about life and how you see life today.
A few generations of chinese whisper's and =

Noah built an ark took, two of evey animal and sailed out in the flood which covered the earth.

There is a flood or poss tidal wave, the land cannot feed the people or cattle,a man named Mo-ah (poss) has a fishing boat and takes 2 of every animal they know 2sheep,goats,camels,dog,cows and thats prob it and sailed out to sea to find somewhere green,as man did not travel as a norm their knowledge of the world was around 500sq miles (in my opinion).

Jesus cured blind people, we know that in india and other parts of the world they were removing cataracts well before the time he was about,and as he travelled the chances are that someone showed him how to do it.

Fed the 5000 with a few fish and some bread, divide the 5000 by 3, double the amount of food, you make fish soup with croutons,you can ferment a variety of plants/fruits into alcohol some only take a few days you have water into wine.or they had some wine but watered it down.

Most things are hugely glorified but are probably an everyday norm now,which is not to say it didn't happen.
My belief,religion,tribal tendancies or eccentricities revolve around man and nature only so there is no needs for gods,god,paridise,hell.
I put some posts on 'Proof of god' posts 72,74,76,78,80 as to the difference between reality and existence because there is a big and defining difference between them both.also in 'the modern prophet'
I've got a book which i've been reading for about a year or so it's written by one of the greatest theologian's a Jesuit called 'HENRI DE LUBAC' the book is 'THE DRAMA OF ATHIEST HUMANISM' publisher 'IGNATIUS' which is his look at the great philosophers and fact, and gave me understand as to both sides of the argument. There are many things that exist which are not real type into google, if it exists you will find it fairys,unicorns etc you get sites for them because they exist but they are not real. If you type in Tabblefunkichocohol you should get nothing as it is not real and doesn't exist there is nothing wrong in hailing the existence of God as long as you can percieve the form it exists in,you cannot say it doesn't exist becuase it is not real or there is no proof as many things exit which aren't real but we don't question their existence. Pheew I need a cup of tea

I have never had any good time discussing with those who use philosophical reasonings. The main reason, you can never guess at the end whether they are for or against your idea :cool: . Did you mean that you belive in the existence of a god or not?

chuuush

02-11-08, 03:16 PM

I don't know. There is a lot of scientiofic evidence that supports the Big Bang theory but the honest answer is that at this point in time no one be certain.

What is your opinion ?

I don't mean the big bang, that's only a theory. My question is not about a theory;what I mean is how was that pre-big bang mass generated at all. I mean how did zero come into existence?

SnakeLord

02-11-08, 06:28 PM

Then you won't mind at all if I steal your soul after you die?

Well, someone here has been watching too many horror movies. Come on, surely you're beyond such nonsense? What I do find intriguing is someone that is seemingly religious even giving thought to 'stealing a soul' when surely that would be the devils work? Is there something you need to say?

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-12-08, 03:57 AM

I have never had any good time discussing with those who use philosophical reasonings. The main reason, you can never guess at the end whether they are for or against your idea :cool: . Did you mean that you belive in the existence of a god or not?

things exist that are not real,the concept of one god exists so you rejoice it, but you won't meet it as its not real it only exists in belief which means it exists.
its not philosophical reasoning its logic based on fact over myth and chinese whispers....:shrug:

chuuush

02-12-08, 04:38 AM

things exist that are not real,the concept of one god exists so you rejoice it, but you won't meet it as its not real it only exists in belief which means it exists.
its not philosophical reasoning its logic based on fact over myth and chinese whispers....:shrug:

So.. is there a real God out there wondering (as I do) what eventually you mean by these lines, or not?

Myles

02-12-08, 05:30 AM

The wait has nothing to do with it, going twice to my house mate for £2.43

Too late; I sold it to the devil in return for eternal life. I can't wait to start sinning.

Myles

02-12-08, 05:35 AM

I don't mean the big bang, that's only a theory. My question is not about a theory;what I mean is how was that pre-big bang mass generated at all. I mean how did zero come into existence?

In the first place we do not know that "zero" came into existence.
If your question is not abourt a theory I cannot offer you a better answer than the one I gave you previously.We have nothing better than theories to go on

chuuush

02-12-08, 05:51 AM

In the first place we do not know that "zero" came into existence.
If your question is not abourt a theory I cannot offer you a better answer than the one I gave you previously.We have nothing better than theories to go on

So, isn't it time to start wondering about the answer?

Myles

02-12-08, 06:21 AM

So, isn't it time to start wondering about the answer?

Scientist continue to explore and some progress had been made. Wondering about something will not provide anything better than a personal belief because it will not produce evidence.

No one can say anything for certain at present but the best we can do is to use the scientific method. Wondering or speculation will only lead to a dead end. You are unlikely to come up with an answer that philosophers have not considered.

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-12-08, 06:58 AM

So.. is there a real God out there wondering (as I do) what eventually you mean by these lines, or not?

read my posts in 'proof of god' 72-80.

there is a big difference between something which exists and something which is real, scooby doo exists but you can't take him for a walk.you can praise the glory of God, live your life by the scripture but you can't meet it because it is a concept not reality.

I think you should do some research into the origins of the bible as opposed to the context or content held within we know when it was roughly written and we know that most of the old testement is based on Babylonian fairytales,legends and myths.

We can prove that man created God no-one has proved that God created man.

read the other post 72-80

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-12-08, 06:59 AM

Too late; I sold it to the devil in return for eternal life. I can't wait to start sinning.

Damm thought i was on to a winner...:cool:

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-12-08, 07:10 AM

I don't mean the big bang, that's only a theory. My question is not about a theory;what I mean is how was that pre-big bang mass generated at all. I mean how did zero come into existence?

Primative man put belief in anything unexplained or unexplainable at the time as acts of Gods or other mystic forces.As all the other things in history which were once thought acts of God have been rationalised to common sense or natural occurances, why should the begining of this planet be any different???

Unless you have proof of Gods hand in any other natural happenings then i'll take it as just as the rain,thunder,lightning,comets and eclipses have been proved as natural occurances, that the begining was a natural occurance 2,as natural as all the other planets

Lori_7

02-13-08, 12:08 PM

sevral questions in one

if god exsiste, then why won't he show himself and prove it?

if god is so kind, then how can he condem millons to deth in hell just becuase there parents taught them a false religon

how can god exsiste?

:confused::):p

first of all, do you believe everything your parents tell you?

second of all, god does not "send" people to hell. people choose to be in hell when they purposefully ignore the obvious, out of a reluctance to seek truth.

Myles

02-13-08, 01:02 PM

first of all, do you believe everything your parents tell you?

second of all, god does not "send" people to hell. people choose to be in hell when they purposefully ignore the obvious, out of a reluctance to seek truth.

Most children believe what their parents tell them Santa Claus. Fairies and god.
Some kids grow up, get educated and realize that their is no reason to believe in god rather than Santa. Other kids grow up physically but not mentally.

" People choose to be in hell"....do you believe everything your parents or those in loco parentis tell you ?

Lori_7

02-13-08, 04:37 PM

Most children believe what their parents tell them Santa Claus. Fairies and god.
Some kids grow up, get educated and realize that their is no reason to believe in god rather than Santa. Other kids grow up physically but not mentally.

" People choose to be in hell"....do you believe everything your parents or those in loco parentis tell you ?

loco parentis? what does that mean? are you dissin' my daddy man? all i'm saying is that people create and choose to stay in hell by their own choices.

jayleew

02-13-08, 04:59 PM

first of all, do you believe everything your parents tell you?

second of all, god does not "send" people to hell. people choose to be in hell when they purposefully ignore the obvious, out of a reluctance to seek truth.

What the heck??

What is so obvious?

If God was real, he put the tree in the garden of eden knowing that Adam and Eve would take the bad apple. So, in the end, it was God's choice to make a "hell" in the first place for all the sinners who he gave the apple to and said, "Here is this apple, but don't eat it if you want to live."

But, that would be obvious and choice would be clear if it were that simple, and God was a daily occurence to everyone.

I mean there are people who would defy God if he was proven...but not all those that Christianity believes will go to "hell" do not deserve to go there because they did not have a choice....

But, as it is now...no one has an informed decision because God (if he were real) is choosing to stay out of our lives....physically. Physically is important no matter what type of relationship you have with others. Long distance relationships rarely work, but yet it's our fault if we gave up hope...no blame whatsover on the other party.

Myles

02-13-08, 05:39 PM

loco parentis? what does that mean? are you dissin' my daddy man? all i'm saying is that people create and choose to stay in hell by their own choices.

I'm not sure how old you are which is why I mentioned in loco parentis, It means in place of parents, that is someone to take care of you if your parents are away. A school teacher is in loco parentis, i.e., responsible for your welfare while you are at school unless your parents are there with you.

Lori_7

02-14-08, 08:05 AM

What the heck??

What is so obvious?

If God was real, he put the tree in the garden of eden knowing that Adam and Eve would take the bad apple. So, in the end, it was God's choice to make a "hell" in the first place for all the sinners who he gave the apple to and said, "Here is this apple, but don't eat it if you want to live."

But, that would be obvious and choice would be clear if it were that simple, and God was a daily occurence to everyone.

I mean there are people who would defy God if he was proven...but not all those that Christianity believes will go to "hell" do not deserve to go there because they did not have a choice....

But, as it is now...no one has an informed decision because God (if he were real) is choosing to stay out of our lives....physically. Physically is important no matter what type of relationship you have with others. Long distance relationships rarely work, but yet it's our fault if we gave up hope...no blame whatsover on the other party.

everything you experience and see and hear and taste and touch is obvious. people are so busy trying to figure out this and prove that due to their own egotisical inclinations that they don't take the time to experience the truth.

Lori_7

02-14-08, 08:09 AM

I'm not sure how old you are which is why I mentioned in loco parentis, It means in place of parents, that is someone to take care of you if your parents are away. A school teacher is in loco parentis, i.e., responsible for your welfare while you are at school unless your parents are there with you.

i'm 40, and no one told me that. well, god told me that. but as far as i can tell, no one agrees with me, or wants to understand what i'm talking about...

which just serves to provide evidence which supports my perception of this.

Myles

02-14-08, 08:19 AM

i'm 40, and no one told me that. well, god told me that. but as far as i can tell, no one agrees with me, or wants to understand what i'm talking about...

which just serves to provide evidence which supports my perception of this.

Would you blieve me, if I told you I have fairies at the bottom of my garden ? If you refuse, I shall take it as evidence that my fairies are there and that you are in denial

jayleew

02-14-08, 08:31 AM

everything you experience and see and hear and taste and touch is obvious. people are so busy trying to figure out this and prove that due to their own egotisical inclinations that they don't take the time to experience the truth.

Let's dispense with the dramatics. Your words are superfluous, insinuating that "truth" is somehow this spiritual thing to experience. Truth is not the same thing as life.

Why is everything I experience and see and hear and taste and touch obvious? It is, but why is it?

Think about why it is obvious.

God could learn a thing or two about the impact of making things obvious about himself. It would have saved tens of thousands of lives from religious wars. God (if he exists) is not black or white, as religion would have you believe. He is on his own side, and we were created for his purpose. (if you believe the Bible)

You are right about one thing though, the truth about God can only come from experience.

Lori_7

02-14-08, 09:14 AM

Would you blieve me, if I told you I have fairies at the bottom of my garden ? If you refuse, I shall take it as evidence that my fairies are there and that you are in denial

The fact is that I don't really care if there are fairies in your garden. I mean, I may be interested but, in the grand scheme of things...

My point is that from what I can see, the vast majority of people, religious and non, are much more concerned with being right about what they think than with they are in experiencing life and openly and honestly seeking truth.

jayleew

02-14-08, 09:32 AM

The fact is that I don't really care if there are fairies in your garden. I mean, I may be interested but, in the grand scheme of things...

My point is that from what I can see, the vast majority of people, religious and non, are much more concerned with being right about what they think than with they are in experiencing life and openly and honestly seeking truth.

Agreed. Both sides need to become more agnostic and appologetic. I believe religion does not provide answers and doesn't seek them for fear of heresy. And I also believe science is too "narrow-minded" to be trusted. People can become fanatical in either practice.

visceral_instinct

02-14-08, 09:49 AM

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-14-08, 10:37 AM

I think i would be right in saying that most people believe in God, santa claus, bogeyman and tooth fairy when they are young and all are told and taught this by their parents. When we understand that it is a lie we deal with the disillusionment associated with loss of belief. Yet we then go on to teach the lies Santa,toothfairy, god etc all over again. People who believe in God as a real person arn't they just being naieve, God is a good construct with some essential ethics that societies law is based on. When your friend tells you that there is no santa you don't believe him as it's not possible, santa has always been there as long as you can remember, y would your parents lie to you?? but they do, perhaps if god exists he lives with santa at the north pole

pharaohmoan

02-14-08, 11:57 AM

I think your approach is interesting but although I beleive in God I wouldn't call that naive. I would say having lived my life I've been presented with a choice and that choice is that I believe in something greater than the physical reality. Even if I had not been preached to or knew about the concept of God and lived in the Amazon I would look up to the stars and wonder 'is there something greater?'. If I later discovered that there were others like me than I would of course be ecstatic about this. Of course I would want to know more about my world first and this is where the atheists come in for they will doggedly carry out the work of those who believe in the possibility of something greater and return their findings that seem to point to an organisation of sorts. So just as elements combine and atoms are exchanged or spat out perhaps we are standing on the paradigms laid down by previous organisations before us. Free will for example must have an outlet of intelligence. Take the sea dragon as an http://www.itsnature.org/Sea/images/article-images/sea_dragon.jpg
example, now in my opinion this animal isn't an accident or freak of nature but rather the progress of free will being expressed through its genes to be incorporated by the next generation of sea horse. What if that free will can be carried not just through genes but also upward into a place of potential. And that place of potential is called God. Now I don't mean a bearded man but rather an organism that grants free will and a desire to become, to unfold into something better which imho is clearly what the sea horse sort to do.
So my point is this, free will and desire have to have an outlet if we are to evolve futher and allow individual consciousness to express itself. That outlet is God. Perhaps it is the image of God which most people are strugling with instead of embrasing it as that place full of potential that allows the further unfolding of reality.

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-14-08, 12:29 PM

I think your approach is interesting but although I beleive in God I wouldn't call that naive.
I put god as a real person, against the belief of a concept.
I would say having lived my life I've been presented with a choice and that choice is that I believe in something greater than the physical reality.
Are you dead and this is from beyond the grave??
Even if I had not been preached to or knew about the concept of God and lived in the Amazon I would look up to the stars and wonder 'is there something greater?'.
As you have been preached to you might find that indegineous people of the amazon look to the forest and surroundings as a norm.

Of course I would want to know more about my world first and this is where the atheists come in
Our world Brother..
.
Free will for example must have an outlet of intelligence. Take the sea dragon as an http://www.itsnature.org/Sea/images/article-images/sea_dragon.jpg
example, now in my opinion this animal isn't an accident or freak of nature but rather the progress of free will being expressed through its genes to be incorporated by the next generation of sea horse. What if that free will can be carried not just through genes but also upward into a place of potential. And that place of potential is called God.
C'est Quoi???????
if we are to evolve futher and allow individual consciousness to express itself. That outlet is God. Perhaps it is the image of God which most people are strugling with instead of embrasing it as that place full of potential that allows the further unfolding of reality.

Do you know anything about what man has been through to try to evolve further but was held back by being branded as a heretic's,just to alllow an individual's belief based on fact on evolution and history over just blind faith. A lot were slaughtered, the outlet for this cold-blooded murder was the name of God, and I think you have been smoking too much weed.:blbl::m:

Lori_7

02-14-08, 12:32 PM

Let's dispense with the dramatics. Your words are superfluous, insinuating that "truth" is somehow this spiritual thing to experience. Truth is not the same thing as life.

i wasn't being dramatic and i don't like censorship. it seems disrespectful and inappropriate, especially given that this setting is a discussion forum, correct?

I actually believe that truth is law, or determined by law, and it encompasses all that exists and doesn't exist and why, including the spiritual and physical. i don't know that it's possible to conceive of all of this truth in it's entirety, in this physical realm, and certainly not in one's lifetime. so we have a window.

my point has to do with how we use or value that window...whether we look.

Why is everything I experience and see and hear and taste and touch obvious? It is, but why is it?

Think about why it is obvious.

God could learn a thing or two about the impact of making things obvious about himself. It would have saved tens of thousands of lives from religious wars. God (if he exists) is not black or white, as religion would have you believe. He is on his own side, and we were created for his purpose. (if you believe the Bible)

You are right about one thing though, the truth about God can only come from experience.

well, i'm so relieved that i'm right about something. ha, ha. hey, people are hateful, greedy, power-hungry murderers and god is their convenient excuse.

pharaohmoan

02-14-08, 12:47 PM

Do you know anything about what man has been through to try to evolve further but was held back by being branded as a heretic's,just to alllow an individual's belief based on fact on evolution and history over just blind faith. A lot were slaughtered, the outlet for this cold-blooded murder was the name of God, and I think you have been smoking too much weed.:blbl::m:

The Spanish Inquisition comes to mind here as an example, are their others I should know about? I'm sure there are if so there is an obvious lesson we should have learned and that is that power in the wrongs hands can upset the balance of things and lead to war and attrocities commited against man and his neighbour. We obviously have no control over what has come before and who knows how many ansestral lines have come to a sudden halt as a result of pushing rather than teaching the word of God. Maybe we should be going about teaching God in a different ways eg the free distribution and sale of illisit drugs. Expand the mind and you shall find God, or even know the mind. How many people can really claim they understand the workings of their own mind? Anyway I'm going off on a tangent here, for me the concept of God is one that the Christians have won and no matter what you atheists say it's here to stay. The best you might be able to do is contribute to what we don't know about the physical. Get to work now you plebs! :geek:

Myles

02-14-08, 01:01 PM

The fact is that I don't really care if there are fairies in your garden. I mean, I may be interested but, in the grand scheme of things...

My point is that from what I can see, the vast majority of people, religious and non, are much more concerned with being right about what they think than with they are in experiencing life and openly and honestly seeking truth.

Anybody who thinks wants to believe he is right as far as it goes. A rational mind recognizes tha knowledge is always provisional. The history of science demonstrate that and shows that sciectist will sooner or lateraccept new ideas if satisfactory evidence is presented.

The religious thinker doesn't think in this way . He arrives at a position where he believes in a god and, from that time on, will refuse to consider any evidence which might undermine his belief.

glaucon

02-14-08, 03:50 PM

...

You are right about one thing though, the truth about God can only come from experience.

Assuming one can validly be said to experience god....

Lori_7

02-14-08, 03:55 PM

[/COLOR]

Anybody who thinks wants to believe he is right as far as it goes. A rational mind recognizes tha knowledge is always provisional. The history of science demonstrate that and shows that sciectist will sooner or lateraccept new ideas if satisfactory evidence is presented.

The religious thinker doesn't think in this way . He arrives at a position where he believes in a god and, from that time on, will refuse to consider any evidence which might undermine his belief.

i don't care about being "right". i care about truth and knowledge and remain open to it, leaving my ego and paradigms in the back seat. they do no good.

Myles

02-14-08, 05:54 PM

i don't care about being "right". i care about truth and knowledge and remain open to it, leaving my ego and paradigms in the back seat. they do no good.

So you have no paradigms. How do you hope to relate one piece of knowledge to another without some sort of framework ?

glaucon

02-14-08, 07:52 PM

So you have no paradigms. How do you hope to relate one piece of knowledge to another without some sort of framework ?

??

The lack of making use of a paradigm does not necessarily exclude the establishment of relations.

Myles

02-14-08, 08:12 PM

??

The lack of making use of a paradigm does not necessarily exclude the establishment of relations.

No, but in the process one constructs a paradigm.

glaucon

02-14-08, 08:59 PM

No, but in the process one constructs a paradigm.

Not at all; that would be a contradiction.

A paradigm is necessarily a hierarchical structure.

A relation, in and of itself, is not.

Lori_7

02-14-08, 09:19 PM

So you have no paradigms. How do you hope to relate one piece of knowledge to another without some sort of framework ?

i have a framework. i just don't mind if something comes along and blows it all to hell and back. actually, it's happened to me many times, and i have to believe that it's because i've wanted and allowed it to happen. i have found that getting to the truth takes humility and sincerity, like the mind of a child.

glaucon

02-14-08, 09:36 PM

i have a framework. i just don't mind if something comes along and blows it all to hell and back.
...

Indeed.
Exactly the point I was making.

Both from an ontological and epistemological position, there is no strict need for any paradigm: nominalism suffices quite nicely.
Relations are created on an ad hoc basis and are not rigid; it is the choice of the individual in question whether or not to substantiate a relation, as well as to determine it's 'lifespan'.

Ultimately, all relations are contingent.

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-15-08, 04:04 AM

The Spanish Inquisition comes to mind here as an example, are their others I should know about? I'm sure there are if so there is an obvious lesson we should have learned and that is that power in the wrongs hands can upset the balance of things and lead to war and attrocities commited against man and his neighbour.
The crusades,english witch-hunts, american witch-hunts. I agree the lesson we should have learnt is that religion has no place outside it's faith.Atrocities okayed as it is for a good cause GOD and your soul as opposed for the benifit of mankind
for me the concept of God is one that the Christians have won and no matter what you atheists say it's here to stay. The best you might be able to do is contribute to what we don't know about the physical.

I'M SURE the muslims,hindu's,budddists,catholic's and every other faith would dis-agree.how have the christians won the god concept?????
If atheists contribute to the physical what and how do christians contribute to????? If you don't believe what i believe I will burn you to cleanse your soul if you repent and believe I will not burn you ,you will be like me then in Gods name you an I can burn and kill all we like in the name of Good, live by Gods commandments thou shall not kill?????
thou shall not worship any icon or idol????? (christian, 'man' on 'cross')
etc

Myles

02-15-08, 12:35 PM

Not at all; that would be a contradiction.

A paradigm is necessarily a hierarchical structure.

A relation, in and of itself, is not.

You are right. I wasn't thinking of a paradigm in the sense that Kuhn used it; more like a crucible in which ideas are stored as in a database/

pharaohmoan

02-16-08, 10:32 AM

I'M SURE the muslims,hindu's,budddists,catholic's and every other faith would dis-agree.how have the christians won the god concept?????
If atheists contribute to the physical what and how do christians contribute to????? If you don't believe what i believe I will burn you to cleanse your soul if you repent and believe I will not burn you ,you will be like me then in Gods name you an I can burn and kill all we like in the name of Good, live by Gods commandments thou shall not kill?????
thou shall not worship any icon or idol????? (christian, 'man' on 'cross')
etc

I would like to presetn the following chart that indicates Christianity is by far the predomonant worlwide religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Worldwide_percentage_of_Adherents_by_Religio n.png

Bit of a dumb question but atheists contribute to the pysical world just as theists do in other words both occupy all walks of life, however scientists who take an atheists stance will only every know reality from an atheists point of view ie they will not be able to connect the dots when it comes to reconciling science with God. Why you are still dwelling about the past I do not know. What is done is done learn from it and move on. Christianity is there to guide people and it has done, I'm not sure what point your trying to make except for bashing religion when common sense can see it helps keep society together plus gives people the benefit of aspiring to something greater. It seems to be the concept of something greater which you are strugling with. You in my opinion are one of the lost children for you cannot or will not look outside of your bubble unless you have proof. Well sorry but it obviously doesn't work like that which is probably the way God wants it.

Pinocchio's Hoof

02-16-08, 11:15 AM

I would like to presetn the following chart that indicates Christianity is by far the predomonant worlwide religion http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Worldwide_percentage_of_Adherents_by_Religio n.png
So how have they won the God concept, apart from enforced brutality, or is it the return of the savage ideals of mob and majority rule

Bit of a dumb question but atheists contribute to the pysical world just as theists do in other words both occupy all walks of life,
In post 71 you proclaim and i quote,
"for me the concept of God is one that the christians have one and no matter what you atheists say it's here to stay.The best you might be able to do is contribute to what we don't know about the physical"
So to me you are saying that an atheist can have no concept of spirituality, it is owned by the christians, and should stick to reality, as i am asking how they have won and if as you state atheists contribute to reality what do christians contribute to it isn't a dumb question DUMBASS?????

however scientists who take an atheists stance will only every know reality from an atheists point of view ie they will not be able to connect the dots when it comes to reconciling science with God.
load of rubbish, you have an anti-atheist problem seek help.
Why you are still dwelling about the past I do not know. What is done is done learn from it and move on. Christianity is there to guide people and it has done, I'm not sure what point your trying to make except for bashing religion when common sense can see it helps keep society together plus gives people the benefit of aspiring to something greater. It seems to be the concept of something greater which you are strugling with. You in my opinion are one of the lost children for you cannot or will not look outside of your bubble unless you have proof. Well sorry but it obviously doesn't work like that which is probably the way God wants it.

This is a load of codswallop, lets rewind a bit....
I put belief in God as a real person was naive, against belief in god as a concept....
You put that i stated that belief in God was naive???????????????
You then babble on about giving people free drugs in the name of God and put a picture of a sea horse saying something that pretty must mean God exist's?????????????????.
I made a statement which you, wrote about, changing what i wrote (read it if u don't believe me), in the original statement I put.
" that God is a good construct with some good ethics which societies law is based on"
so why in the bit highlighted above do you state that I am bashing religion?????make out that I have no common sense as it keeps society together?????how am I struggling with the concept of something greater when my original statement acceptedthe concept of God?????
You are lost and in a bubble and writing tangable bull, you made a comment based on falsely stating what I put, I pointed this out asked a simple question of how and you skirted round awnsering your statment ,by saying my question was dumb, when i'm asking you how (to explain your proclamation) and using your statement in the question.
Just because you put a graph on here you are not awnsering at all, you r just being rude,:spank::wtf: I question if you know what you are talking about?????????
Or do you..
well... how ??????

Myles

02-16-08, 12:22 PM

So how have they won the God concept, apart from enforced brutality, or is it the return of the savage ideals of mob and majority rule

In post 71 you proclaim and i quote,
"for me the concept of God is one that the christians have one and no matter what you atheists say it's here to stay.The best you might be able to do is contribute to what we don't know about the physical"
So to me you are saying that an atheist can have no concept of spirituality, it is owned by the christians, and should stick to reality, as i am asking how they have won and if as you state atheists contribute to reality what do christians contribute to it isn't a dumb question DUMBASS?????

load of rubbish, you have an anti-atheist problem seek help.

This is a load of codswallop, lets rewind a bit....
I put belief in God as a real person was naive, against belief in god as a concept....
You put that i stated that belief in God was naive???????????????
You then babble on about giving people free drugs in the name of God and put a picture of a sea horse saying something that pretty must mean God exist's?????????????????.
I made a statement which you, wrote about, changing what i wrote (read it if u don't believe me), in the original statement I put.
" that God is a good construct with some good ethics which societies law is based on"
so why in the bit highlighted above do you state that I am bashing religion?????make out that I have no common sense as it keeps society together?????how am I struggling with the concept of something greater when my original statement acceptedthe concept of God?????
You are lost and in a bubble and writing tangable bull, you made a comment based on falsely stating what I put, I pointed this out asked a simple question of how and you skirted round awnsering your statment ,by saying my question was dumb, when i'm asking you how (to explain your proclamation) and using your statement in the question.
Just because you put a graph on here you are not awnsering at all, you r just being rude,:spank::wtf: I question if you know what you are talking about?????????
Or do you..
well... how ??????

Just be thankful it was a chart. Had it been a scroll, you wouldn't have had a leg to stand on