The best argument..

[SnakeLord]

Purely out of interest it is worth asking what each person thinks is the best single argument for the existence of a god. What do you think is the strongest argument in favour?

Same applies to the atheists here. If there was one argument that, ok didn't convince you, but you at least thought was a relatively decent argument, what is it?

Thanks.

[Crunchy Cat]

"The idea makes me feel all warm and fuzzy" is about the best I can come up with.

[Crunchy Cat]

Ooh I have to change my argument. Here is the best one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3Eo0E5-Zak&feature=related

[spidergoat]

The best argument is I talk to Him and He talks to me. I cannot deny your personal experience, (although it isn't very convincing to others).

[Wisdom_Seeker]

Purely out of interest it is worth asking what each person thinks is the best single argument for the existence of a god. What do you think is the strongest argument in favour?

Same applies to the atheists here. If there was one argument that, ok didn't convince you, but you at least thought was a relatively decent argument, what is it?

Thanks.

The best argument is that if God exists he will continue existing even if you believe otherwise. And is God doesn´t exists, he will continue "non-existing" even if you believe he does exist.

Really, what you believe makes no difference to God, only to yourself.

[shichimenshyo]

You are wrong, I am right.


It works for both sides.

Thats what it always comes down to anyways.

[alexb123]

"The idea makes me feel all warm and fuzzy" is about the best I can come up with.

A few minutes in a tumble dryer could do that!

[alexb123]

The best argument is I talk to Him and He talks to me. I cannot deny your personal experience, (although it isn't very convincing to others).

A friendly shop assistant could cover this one.

[iceaura]

It's easier to talk about some stuff if you've named it, and once you have a name there has to be an entity named, right ?

[PsychoticEpisode]

God's somewhere else at the moment but if He wasn't, He'd kick atheist ass from here to hell.

[Sarkus]

FOR
Either: "It says so in the Bible - so must be true."
or: "There are mysteries in the universe... so God must have done them until proven otherwise."

AGAINST
God is a personification and anthropomorphisation of natural phenomena, be it the origin of the universe, of existence or "the first cause" etc. The personification does not exist other than in the minds of those who use the term "God". There is only the actual phenomena - no god.

[sisyphus__]

For and aganist:

QQ is God.

And there are other little little this and thats to this statement which I have no feeling at at the moment to work out, at all.

[fusion4577]

what god? i think that there is none and that is me

[Crunchy Cat]

I hope everyone looked at the link I provided earlier. Within the video you can find such quality quotes as "Repeat it after me bitch! I come in the name of Jesus!".

[fusion4577]

"god" and religon were made in the name to explain why the hell things happend. rabbits, deer, lions don't have faith becuase they don't ask why. humans do. and religon was an early explanation, and then there was scieance. the real diffrence, scieance actully gives logical explantion. religon just says"god did it"

[cosmictraveler]

Purely out of interest it is worth asking what each person thinks is the best single argument for the existence of a god. What do you think is the strongest argument in favour?

Same applies to the atheists here. If there was one argument that, ok didn't convince you, but you at least thought was a relatively decent argument, what is it?

Thanks.

Perhaps people need to have something other than themselves in which to blame everything on?

[Dinosaur]

I am an atheist who envies theists due to the following.Belief in an afterlife is comforting when one thinks about mortality.


Some of my theist friends have the smug belief that they will be able to say: "Dinosaur, I told you so!" An athiest can never hope to be able to say that to a theist.Both of the above seem like excellent arguments in favor of religion.

I wish I could come up with some believable (to me) theory allowing for an afterlife without an accompanying belief in the existence of a god or gods. That would solve both of the above problems for me.

[Gustav]

place limitations on creativity
introduce back into the chain of causality

[Gustav]

pardon
redefine the fucker

[Jan Ardena]

I am an atheist who envies theists due to the following.Belief in an afterlife is comforting when one thinks about mortality.


Some of my theist friends have the smug belief that they will be able to say: "Dinosaur, I told you so!" An athiest can never hope to be able to say that to a theist.Both of the above seem like excellent arguments in favor of religion.

I wish I could come up with some believable (to me) theory allowing for an afterlife without an accompanying belief in the existence of a god or gods. That would solve both of the above problems for me.

Some questions;

How is "belief in an afterlife" comforting, when the real anxiety is due to death itself, which every sane person understands to be universal?
Also, how can it be comforting not actually knowing whether or not one is eligable for a heavenly existence (this of course excludes those who believe they are automatically eligable)?

second paragraph;

I assume you are a naturalist, or agree for the most part with naturalist philosophy. Why would you wish for an afterlife, as this goes against nature (at least as we understand it)?

Jan.

[Killian_1_4]

Best argument for god is the existence of Marijuana.

[Gustav]

Some questions;

How is "belief in an afterlife" comforting, when the real anxiety is due to death itself, which every sane person understands to be universal?
Also, how can it be comforting not actually knowing whether or not one is eligable for a heavenly existence (this of course excludes those who believe they are automatically eligable)?

second paragraph;

I assume you are a naturalist, or agree for the most part with naturalist philosophy. Why would you wish for an afterlife, as this goes against nature (at least as we understand it)?

Jan.


pardon
i feel the spirit

afterlife=no death
death=rebirth

quotas =fineprint aka no one reads
heaven=utopia=all god's creations

cybernetics=nature

[Gustav]

stupid judeo christian atheists and their monopolistic mentalities
fuck em, i say

[PsychoticEpisode]

The best argument for god's existence starts with the belief in the knowledge that God has never once communicated nor left any evidence of His being with any living entity, at least on the Earth. God could merely be an unknown outside observer with absolutely no connection with anything on Earth. Sure He/She/It may have created the place but without God's communication there is no proof whatsoever that anyone did. If you believe God has never communicated with us then it is reasonable to assume that we have total free will, unencumbered or influenced by any creator being, ID or otherwise. We are now free to form religions with all their accoutrements or just become an atheist. It doesn't matter which you choose since we are free to decide without interference.

Its as close as we're going to get. Accepting that God has never communicated with us makes either a simple yes or no the only thing we can say on the matter of His existence. A debate about a deity's existence doesn't have to go any further and is absolutely not worth arguing over.

If we believe there is no real proof then it is incumbent on us not to manufacture stories about any deity because we simply do not know. All religious text dealing with God is therefore worthless as is any atheist diatribe on God's non-existence. So I guess I'm saying that proof of God's existence would be the fact that He is not here, has never communicated with us and He/She/It refrains from any interference with our lives. Anything ever written or said about God is merely a human construct.

[jayleew]

Some funnies :D

The best argument to believe in God, IMHO is Pascal's Wager

The best argument that there is a God is unexplicable miracles.

[Dinosaur]

Jan Ardena: I would prefer to be immortal or at least have my mind & consciousness continue to exist for a lot longer than my expected life span.

I thought that almost everyone would prefer continued existence to oblivion.

[Leo Volont]

Purely out of interest it is worth asking what each person thinks is the best single argument for the existence of a god. What do you think is the strongest argument in favour?

Same applies to the atheists here. If there was one argument that, ok didn't convince you, but you at least thought was a relatively decent argument, what is it?

Thanks.

Well, perhaps the best way of foisting 'God' upon the general public is to relax the rather stringent definitions that we have hitherto been abiding by. Atheists typically define God on the Greek Model, because that is the easiest definition to attack. Indeed, it is as though Greek Philosophy decided upon a definition of God that would be easy to assault. The Greek God is a composite of every Absolute, at the same time as Greek Philosophy already knew that Absolutes were Imaginary and that the Actual Truth of the matter is that there "Are no Absolutes".

So, redefine God.

Is there a Life Force? Is there a Collective Consciousness? Might 'God' be evolving just like all the rest of us?

We know there have been Apparitions, Visions, and all such things. Rather than assigning the cause to some Imaginary Absolute of Greek Philosophy, might we rather look to the Collective Life Force that can coordinate 'tricks' in all of our minds all at once.

What if God were a Psychological Reality?

[greenberg]

Purely out of interest it is worth asking what each person thinks is the best single argument for the existence of a god. What do you think is the strongest argument in favour?

I am a child of God.

[pharaohmoan]

The very fact that we are able to ask and discuss the question of Gods existence for me is proof enough.

[Myles]

Some funnies :D

The best argument to believe in God, IMHO is Pascal's Wager

The best argument that there is a God is unexplicable miracles.

Oh dear ! Pascal was a despicable moral coward.

[Myles]

The very fact that we are able to ask and discuss the question of Gods existence for me is proof enough.

But we can also discuss fairys and unicorns. So your point is ?

[Myles]

I am a child of God.

That's a convincing answer

[Leo Volont]

AGAINST[/b]
God is a personification and anthropomorphisation of natural phenomena, be it the origin of the universe, of existence or "the first cause" etc. The personification does not exist other than in the minds of those who use the term "God". There is only the actual phenomena - no god.

Again, anthropomorphisation is only a problem when we view God according to the Greek Absolutist definitions of God. Must we insist that we can only have a God that fits Aristotle's speculations or none at all.

Besides a God that is too transcendent may as well be useless. I forget which philosopher said it, but the only God that should concern us is a Providential God -- a God that has a particular concern for Humanity, and that would of necessity make our Useful God Anthropomorphic.

For instance, if one looks at the documentation, the closest thing we have to a "God" comes in the form of Idealized Human Beings -- Marian Visions, or Goddess Visions. Actual Apparitions that are seen and heard by several persons at once. Accompanied by miracles or unexplainable phenomena.

You see, Aristotle was only thinking about Theology, and so we have a Philosophical Theology which is full of mathematical imaginations -- which is why Atheists love Greek Philosophy and the Greek Theological Definitions so much -- it makes God an easy proposition to disprove... even to laugh at. But people fail to comprehend that this may have been Aristotles point -- to make God ludicrous.

The Greek Philosophers could not have been so stupid. They intentionally sabotaged Theology with their ridiculous conceptions of Divinity. And then it is rather bazaar that the Catholic Church Fathers and later the Protestants never caught onto the joke.

[Sarkus]

Again, anthropomorphisation is only a problem when we view God according to the Greek Absolutist definitions of God. Must we insist that we can only have a God that fits Aristotle's speculations or none at all. Interesting stuff, LV.

However, redefine "God" how you want - it makes no difference in that "God" is beyond evidence, as the very term implies far more than can ever be shown / demonstrated / proven.

And if you want to define God as something for which evidence does exist - or can even be proven as existing - then why define it as "God" and not merely what it is? Unless of course you want to include the implication?

[Jan Ardena]

Jan Ardena: I would prefer to be immortal or at least have my mind & consciousness continue to exist for a lot longer than my expected life span.

I thought that almost everyone would prefer continued existence to oblivion.

Having that preferance does not mean bodily death does not occur, which is the real fear for most people. Neither does it explain what will happen at the time of death.
Although there are those who will say they know that heaven awaits them, there are those who do not feel they are worthy enough for such a destination.

Jan.

[Gustav]

if raith comes back, i would regain my respect for this forum

[jayleew]

Oh dear ! Pascal was a despicable moral coward.


Poor bastard! Damned like us all, to the human condition. :P

[Lori_7]

Purely out of interest it is worth asking what each person thinks is the best single argument for the existence of a god. What do you think is the strongest argument in favour?

Same applies to the atheists here. If there was one argument that, ok didn't convince you, but you at least thought was a relatively decent argument, what is it?

Thanks.

all of the weird shit that's happened to me.

[Myles]

Well, perhaps the best way of foisting 'God' upon the general public is to relax the rather stringent definitions that we have hitherto been abiding by. Atheists typically define God on the Greek Model, because that is the easiest definition to attack. Indeed, it is as though Greek Philosophy decided upon a definition of God that would be easy to assault. The Greek God is a composite of every Absolute, at the same time as Greek Philosophy already knew that Absolutes were Imaginary and that the Actual Truth of the matter is that there "Are no Absolutes".

So, redefine God.

Is there a Life Force? Is there a Collective Consciousness? Might 'God' be evolving just like all the rest of us?

We know there have been Apparitions, Visions, and all such things. Rather than assigning the cause to some Imaginary Absolute of Greek Philosophy, might we rather look to the Collective Life Force that can coordinate 'tricks' in all of our minds all at once.

What if God were a Psychological Reality?

What is the "collective life force" and how did you become aware of it ?

[Myles]

all of the weird shit that's happened to me.

I would attribute that to Satan; you know what a crafty bastard he is, encouraging people to sin and persuading them they are listening to god. Try sleeping with a chaplet of garlic around your neck; that'll show him

[Lori_7]

I would attribute that to Satan; you know what a crafty bastard he is, encouraging people to sin and persuading them they are listening to god. Try sleeping with a chaplet of garlic around your neck; that'll show him

funny you should say that.