Anti-Gay Church to Protest Ledger Funeral

[Asguard]

A fundamentalist church whose members demonstrate at the funerals of soldiers killed in Iraq and believe God hates gays will protest the Academy Awards and the funeral of Heath Ledger, because the actor played a gay cowboy in the 2005 film "Brokeback Mountain."


Actor's Life Cut ShortMembers of the Westboro Baptist Church in Topeka, Kan., are trying to find out where the 28-year-old actor's funeral will be held and have already made signs to hold outside the Oscars that read "God Hates Fags and Fag Enablers," "Heath in Hell" and "Mourn for Your Sins," Shirley Phelps-Roper, daughter of the church's controversial founder Pastor Fred Phelps, told ABCNEWS.com.

Though Ledger was not gay, the church believes he "misused the giant megaphone given to him by God Almighty to speak the truth about fags," Phelps-Roper said, and instead "used his position of prominence to say God is a liar and that homosexuality is not an abomination."


The time and location of the Ledger's funeral remain unknown, but it is widely believed it will take place in the actor's native Australia.

Viewed 25/01/08 (http://www.abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/story?id=4183635&page=1)



This is discraceful. I watched an interview on ACA (A current affair) on channel 9 tonight. Besides attacking the interviewer and insulting the whole of Australia it was one of the worst interviews i have ever seen. Not for the presenter who was punching WELL above the average for that show (its usually commercial rubbish), rather his rabid eyed attitude. For the first thing as Mad has pointed out in another thread no one in Australia really lissen's to religious figures but it went further than that. He was just a hairs width from threatening vilonce against our country because Heath Ledger stared in Broke Back Mountain. This is in noway going to help relations with the US and i would be surprised to see people advocating washing our hands of the lot of you over this. If they post the transcript on there website i will post it tomorrow but for the moment i cant find it. He was threatening vilonce at the funeral which is likely to be here. I can think of a case like this but he could by rights be charged if he entered the country with inciting vilonce.

[Spud Emperor]

I can think of a case like this but he could by rights be charged if he entered the country with inciting vilonce.

If that's his agenda, he will be booted back out before the plane has even landed. And this is not my normal position but yeah, drop him out over the pacific and see how our gracious, heterosexual "god" deals with him.

[Asguard]

The interviewer (sorry i dont normally watch ACA so i dont know her name) said (and this is my best recolection)

"your no christan are you, what happened to love one another" her
"you have never read the bible have you, god hates gay" him
....
"i hope when you meet your creator you can explaine this to him" her
"i talk to him everyday and he tells me he aproves of what im doing" him

I honestly dont understand this, the guy wasnt even gay (not that he would deserve this if he was at all), he is getting it because he PLAYED a gay caricter in a movie

I dont know how big this story is in the US but he was one of our biggest stars here so its like this happerning to George Clonie or Sharwn Connory

[original]

The Westboro Baptist Church is the same group of people who hold up signs saying "Thank God For Dead Soldiers" at their funerals.

[Asguard]

i saw that, but i havent herd anything about it so i cant comment on it

[angrybellsprout]

Why do people who don't know anything about America try to suggest that those people are even considered Christians by Americans?

Please stop showing your bias by even acknowleding this cultish family and their so called 'church'.

[Asguard]

Its not my bias. I can garentiee that Australians in general who saw that will paint at least a fair percentage of the Christans in the US with the same brush though

[spidergoat]

They are dumb bastards. Don't blame the US for their idiocy.

[angrybellsprout]

I provided him a list of links that show that that cult is not acknowledged in the USA as even a Christian group, but to no avail.

[spidergoat]

I think they are Christians, but just a particularly reprehensible sect.

[sandy]

They're not Christians. They're a bunch of lunatics using Christianity to get some attention. Their "church" is tax-free so they can spread their venom unchecked.:(

They are NOT recognized as a Christian group. They call themselves Baptists but even the Baptists don't acknowledge them.:rolleyes:

http://hotair.com/archives/2008/01/25/video-westboro-degenerate-celebrates-heath-ledgers-death/

[ashura]

Asguard, this church has absolutely zero credibility and respect in the US. You shouldn't be taking them seriously, or as something representative of the US.

[15ofthe19]

Phelps is the same wingnut that shows up at funerals of dead soldiers.

Please don't even for a minute suggest he is anything otherwise. He in no way represents American ideals or attitudes toward anything. He's a fringe element just like David Koresh, or Jim Jones, and he's an embarrassment to the country.

That so-called church is just a thinly disguised hate group, and they are recognized as such by anybody who keeps up with their antics.

[Asguard]

HAY guys IM not taking him seriously. Im furiously angry at HIM and his organisation and only that. I know you guys to well to take and all for one stance. By the same token though the US image IS going to be tarnised by this nutcase here in Australia just like Australia's image was tanished in Asia by Pauline Hanson. I find that sad because i know that your not all like that but i find his atitude infuriating. How dare this nut case even THINK about disturbing the family with there rubbish. As for making terrioust threats about our country Im sure the AFP will have something to say about that if he ever turns up and if they chose not to the state police will for inciting hatred. Of course i dont think that immigration would let him through the gate but i would LOVE to see his ass locked up for days and days under the Terrioust protection act and hauled in front of a judge. I would LOVE to see that life sentance that those charges come with, i highly doubt that the judge would be light

[phlogistician]

They're not Christians. They're a bunch of lunatics using Christianity to get some attention. Their "church" is tax-free so they can spread their venom unchecked.:(

They are NOT recognized as a Christian group. They call themselves Baptists but even the Baptists don't acknowledge them.:rolleyes:



They display about as much christian love and understanding as you, 'Sandy'.

Anyway, who is to say who is 'christian' and who is not? Jesus started a revolution, and the majority at the time did not believe he was who he said he was. Therefore you cannot claim one church to be truer than another, 'cos it's all horse shit.

[Asguard]

For anyone who is interested the video is avialable here

http://aca.ninemsn.com.au/

If you click on "Heath Ledger: Minister speaksHeath Ledger: Minister speaks 25/01/2008" it will pop up in the video window above. I cant find a transcript of it though just the video

[Challenger78]

Great, The citizenry of the US sinks even lower in world opinion since that chaser video. This time, It's not the government or the people, It's the church.
Asguard, I'm surprised ACA turned out to be useful for once.

[superstring01]

The Westboro Baptist Church is no more "American" than Pauline Hanson is "Australian".

~String

[pjdude1219]

its not a church it is a family and even all of it

[Norsefire]

I'm back! Missed me?

Anyway, while I don't know much about this Church, you still need to remember that homosexuality is banned in Christianity and therefore what they are doing is following their religion.

[superstring01]

I'm back! Missed me?

You were gone?

Anyway, while I don't know much about this Church

Well, duh!

...you still need to remember that homosexuality is banned in Christianity

Christ never mentioned homosexuality, Norse. Stop operating like you have a clue. As I've told you in the past: Christianity doesn't have a set "doctrine"** there are vague areas that are subject to interpretation. Parts were added and deleted from the bible after Christ's death. Christ never called for the harm or destruction of anybody. All he preached was "love thy neighbor" and "believe in me, and you will get to heaven."

Good works and specific deeds weren't the way to heaven. I know it's tough when you're grasping at straws, and I know you want to be considered intelligent and knowledgeable, but why not try a little to actually learn something about what you speak before you begin feverishly patting a way on the keyboard?

and therefore what they are doing is following their religion.

Since you know so much, Norse, what are the "rules" of Christianity. Do me a favor: site facts this time and don't draw upon your, albeit, limited imagination.

Try super-duper hard and do some research, then come back and talk to us like you had a clue.

~String
__________________________________________________ __
**Example:
-Jehovah's Witnesses believe in good works, don't believe in Hell, don't believe in a "trinity" and don't believe that you'll "go to Heaven" (well, most believers that is), do believe that celebration of Christmas and Birthdays are a sin, do believe in "immersion" baptism as an adult as a consecrating part of being "saved", do believe that salvation can be lost, believe that homosexuals "convert" to being straight when a person accepts their doctrine
-Assembly of God believes that Hell may exist (but probably not), but that a God of love isn't the type of God to damn a person to such a place but under very specific and horrible circumstances, they do believe in the trinity, but don't believe in the infallibility of the bible, do believe in "immersion" baptism as an adult as a consecrating part of being "saved", they do believe that salvation can be lost, do believe that homosexuals can be saved and get in to heaven.
-Southern Baptists definitely believe in Hell, believe in the trinity, do believe in "immersion" baptism as an adult as a consecrating part of being "saved", believe in the absolute infallibility of the bible, believe that once a person is saved they are always saved and can get in to heaven, no matte what they do, don't believe that homosexuals can be saved
-Judaic Christians don't believe in Hell or celebrating Christmas and birthdays, don't believe in the trinity, believe that true baptism is when a man is circumcised and is immersed in water and that when he is baptized so is his wife and children, do believe that salvation is forever and cannot be lost, don't believe that homosexuals can be saved
-United Church of Christ believes that a person can be can be baptized at any time in life (including as an infant) by sprinkling watter on the head, do believe that homosexuality is okay in God's eyes, do believe that salvation is eternal and can't be lost, don't believe in Hell

I could go on and on, but you get the picture. You, however, should get a clue.

[Norsefire]

Pope said so, and Pope is head of Christianity, therefore 1+1=2

[superstring01]

Pope said so, and Pope is head of Christianity, therefore 1+1=2

From Wikipedia:

Catholic Church:
"The Pope (from Latin: papa, tutor;[1] from Greek πάπας (pápas); father - originally written πάππας (páppas), as in Odyssey VI.57)[2] is the Bishop of Rome, the spiritual leader of the Roman Catholic Church[3] and head of state of Vatican City. "

Lutheran Church Missouri Synod:
"The LCMS is headquartered in St. Louis, Missouri, and has about 2.5 million baptized members, approximately half of whom are located in the Upper Midwest, although it is represented in all 50 states, and is affiliated with other Lutheran sister churches worldwide. It is divided into 35 districts — 33 geographic districts, and two (the English district and SELC) non-geographic. The current president is the Rev. Dr. Gerald B. Kieschnick."

Assembly of God:
"The current General Superintendent of the General Council [of the Assembly of God] is Dr. George O. Wood. Dr. Wood's tenure began October 8, 2007 when the previous General Superintendent, Dr. Thomas A. Trask stepped down after 14 years of leadership."

Notice, different churches, different leadership.

Oh-- and there are churches the precede the Catholic church.

~String

[Carcano]

The critics are not really against the Westboro Baptist Church...they are against the Bible itself.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality as an abomination?

Yes it does!

The Westboro Church is one of the last remaining truly Christian churches....drawing its teaching only from the scriptures, and not from secular humanism.

[superstring01]

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality as an abomination?

Where? Old testament?

The Westboro Church is one of the last remaining truly Christian churches....drawing its teaching only from the scriptures, and not from secular humanism.

Are you kidding? It's a church that doesn't permit it's members to marry outside the church, it protests funerals, it's members send pictures of recently departed people "burning in hell" to the parents and relatives of the deceased, it teaches that gay's should be executed (did Jesus believe in this), it teaches that disease is caused by evil spirits, and teaches that menstruation wouldn't occur if a woman's heart were truly pure?

Jesus never said A SINGLE WORD about "execution", "gays"... all the guy talked about was love and salvation through belief and reverence of God through Him. Later "men" added their own prejudices to the system, which idiots have taken for truth to this day.

That's nonsense.

~String

[Carcano]

It's a church that doesn't permit it's members to marry outside the church, it protests funerals, it's members send pictures of recently departed people "burning in hell" to the parents and relatives of the deceased, it teaches that gay's should be executed (did Jesus believe in this), it teaches that disease is caused by evil spirits, and teaches that menstruation wouldn't occur if a woman's heart were truly pure?
I dont know about the menstruation part, but the rest of it is very much in keeping with Biblical teaching....yes!

[Asguard]

and you people wonder why this is all Australians can see in this issue?

I think its cultural as well, for instance my family is catholic. My mother studyed theology as part of her teaching degree and teaches religion in a catholic school. However she has HUGE problems with some of the popes edicts for instance the ones against birth control. Most catholics here are like that, layed back and pick and chose what they think the pope was lissioning to god properly on.

It seems to most Australians that your country is full of fundementilists right up to the goverment. This wont help matters

[Carcano]

Jesus never said A SINGLE WORD about "execution", "gays"... all the guy talked about was love and salvation through belief and reverence of God through Him.
Christianity is not defined only by the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels.

Which is worse...to simply be executed, or to spend the rest of eternity being tortured in hell?

Jesus invented the hellfire speech.

[Carcano]

Where? Old testament?

Both old and new! And remember that Jesus upheld the teachings of the old testament, sometimes making them even more extreme.

1 Timothy

Homosexuals (those "that defile themselves with mankind") are included on the list of lawless, disobedient, unholy, and profane people. 1:10

Homosexuals (those "without natural affection") and their supporters (those "that have pleasure in them") are "worthy of death." 1:31-32

1 Corinthians

Paul lists ten things that will keep you out of heaven, including homosexuality and being "effeminate." 6:9-10

[superstring01]

Christianity is not defined only by the teachings of Jesus in the Gospels.

You're right-- there are hundreds, maybe thousands, of different definitions of Christianity. But to be succinct: the most fundamental definition is the belief in the teachings of Christ.

Which is worse...to simply be executed, or to spend the rest of eternity being tortured in hell?

You're kidding. You're about as clueless as Norse.

First: Jesus never said one iota about Hell or going to hell.
Two: Christianity's one overriding characteristic is of the grace of Jesus and that salvation is based upon NOT actions or deeds, but upon confession of faith through Christ. "Being" a thing was absolutely abolished with the nullification of the Old Covenant. You would know this if you knew what Christianity was.

Jesus invented the hellfire speech.

Did he? Where?

~String

[superstring01]

1 Timothy 1:10

"for adulterers and perverts, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine"

Not quoting the words of Christ

1 Corinthians 6:9-10

"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders"

Written by Paul, not spoken by Christ.

Everything you write is that of people, not Christ. Christ never called for anybody to be killed or hurt. Men did, especially men who were beginning to savor the first tastes of power they had over the fledgling religion.

~String

[Carcano]

First: Jesus never said one iota about Hell or going to hell.

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48
...into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

[Carcano]

Everything you write is that of people, not Christ. Christ never called for anybody to be killed or hurt.
If Jesus was not a member of 'the people' then he must be God incarnate right?

And who in the Bible has slaughtered more people than God himself?

[superstring01]

Matthew 13:41-42
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Matthew 18:8-9
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire.

Matthew 25:41, 46
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels. ... And these shall go away into everlasting punishment.

Mark 9:43-48
...into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Luke 16:22-24
And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried; And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom. And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction.

Revelation 14:10-11
The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb. And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever.

Revelation 20:14-15
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

The notion of hellfire in Judaism doesn't exist except for Satan and Demons. Hell in Aramaic/Hebrew (Sheol or Gehenna) are used interchangeably by those who erroneously translated the New Testament.

There are three types of "hell" that have been combined in the modern world: the realm of the dead, place of the damned (demons and Satan) and a place of eternal punishment.

In modern concepts we have totally lost the notion of what true hell is and "fire and brimstone" Christians automatically latch upon the version that suits their notions of eternity to make preaching just a little bit easier.

Do a little research on the inherent errors in the Aramaic-Greek-Latin-English translations of these concepts and then come back for informed discussion when you figure it all out.

[superstring01]

If Jesus was not a member of 'the people' then he must be God incarnate right?

No, he was (as Christians teach) "God become Man" he was mortal and subject to temptations of the flesh just like you and me.

And who in the Bible has slaughtered more people than God himself?

Old testament. The NT is something worth studying, but it's difficult for people to grasp when they latch on to the things that support their prejudices.

~String

[Carcano]

The notion of hellfire in Judaism doesn't exist except for Satan and Demons. Hell in Aramaic/Hebrew (Sheol or Gehenna) are used interchangeably by those who erroneously translated the New Testament.
The notion of hell as a place of punishment doesnt exist in the old testament at all.

In the new testament, two words are translated into 'hell'....Hades and Gehenna.

Both occur over 120 times in the NT describing a place of punishment for sinners.

Its a concept the Jews of Hellenistic and Roman times likely picked up from Zoroastrianism.

[Carcano]

No, he was (as Christians teach) "God become Man" he was mortal and subject to temptations of the flesh just like you and me.Jesus as consubstantial with God or 'God become Man' are both strong indications that Jesus and God are on the same page...at the very least.

So again, who in the bible has slaughtered more people than God himself?

[Carcano]

Old testament. The NT is something worth studying, but it's difficult for people to grasp when they latch on to the things that support their prejudices.
I thought you wanted to access Christianity only through Jesus???

It is entirely Paul's idea that Jesus came to over ride the old testament. He needed this principle to sell his new religion to the Gentiles.

Jesus himself upheld the teachings of his forefathers...and further said nothing about the need for a new religion.

Matthew 5:17

"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven."

[Norsefire]

superstring, yes there are churches not under the control of the Pope, but those aren't real. The Pope is the only true Head of Christianity.

[superstring01]

superstring, yes there are churches not under the control of the Pope, but those aren't real. The Pope is the only true Head of Christianity.

So, people who aren't Catholic aren't Christian? Back this up.

Are you aware that there are churches that precede (in simple terms for you: that means they came BEFORE) the Catholic church? Are you aware that the words: "Pope" and "Catholic" never appear in the Bible and that Christ only calls for people to follow him and not be a part of any "Church". Are you aware that there were and still are hundreds of Churches that aren't connected to the Catholic Church which are still "true Christians"?

Are Lutherans and Eastern Orthodox Christians not Christians then?

Based upon what information do you make this claim, or is this something you spew out to justify your claims.

(BTW-- even the Pope has said that the Catholic Church isn't the only church to reach God-- but he happens to think it's the best).

Norse, let me warn you: If you're here just to antagonize, then I'd advise you against it. You are required to back up your claims. Understand?

I couldn't car less if you talk about how gays are evil: but when you purport to post facts, you are required to back them up.

Since you aren't either Catholic or Christian, you cannot make wild claims of fact just to suit your tastes.

~String

[Norsefire]

They aren't Christian in the sense of Catholics. They may follow some basic Christian law, but the Pope is the Head of the Catholic Church, and while Christ never said for there to be a Catholic Church, Catholicism is the Chrsitianity which Christ preached.

Also, I may not be Christian but I am Alawi and we do believe in Jesus Christ as a Prophet.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

The critics are not really against the Westboro Baptist Church...they are against the Bible itself.

Does the Bible condemn homosexuality as an abomination?


Jesus says that being rich is pretty much a bar to getting in heaven. Will you be protesting at the funerals of rich people that take place on hallowed ground?

Since the parts of the bible dealing with homosexuality are all in the OT, do you eat KOsher?

Do you think widows must marry the brother of their dead husband?

Has it ever occurred to you that these rules might have been helpful to oppressed tribes in the desert living in areas with hostile enemies? In other words where not having babies could be seen as problematic? That maybe we can move on and treat each other with love?

[Carcano]

Jesus says that being rich is pretty much a bar to getting in heaven. Will you be protesting at the funerals of rich people that take place on hallowed ground?

Since the parts of the bible dealing with homosexuality are all in the OT, do you eat KOsher?

Do you think widows must marry the brother of their dead husband?

I'm neither Jewish or Christian...but the Westboro folks might be interested in some of these points you mentioned.

Ive listened to several interviews with their spokesperson and she backs up every doctrine with scripture.

They are at least honest in their insanity.

Unlike the secular humanist Christians, who imagine Jesus as a pacifist hippy with soft pink lips...who loves everybody. :p

An image derived from sunday school picture books...not the gospels.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I'm neither Jewish or Christian...but the Westboro folks might be interested in some of these points you mentioned.

Ive listened to several interviews with their spokesperson and she backs up every doctrine with scripture.

They are at least honest in their insanity.

Unlike the secular humanist Christians, who imagine Jesus as a pacifist hippy with soft pink lips...who loves everybody. :p

An image derived from sunday school picture books...not the gospels.

But my point was precisely that their are not honest in their insanity. They pick and choose from the Bible in just the same ludicrous fashion you are concerned about above.

Also if they are 'imagining Jesus', he said nothing about homosexuality...or slavery for that matter.

The OT can be used to justify slavery, in fact it was.

[Carcano]

But my point was precisely that their are not honest in their insanity. They pick and choose from the Bible in just the same ludicrous fashion you are concerned about above.

Also if they are 'imagining Jesus', he said nothing about homosexuality...or slavery for that matter.

Its not just Jesus at issue here, because Christianity is not defined entirely by Jesus.

If it was...there would be no Christianity, because Christianity was invented by Paul.

As for picking and choosing, this is why it was neccessary for the early church to apply military force towards a unification of the religion.

With such a wide variety of scripture to pick and choose from, there will naturally be an explosive proliferation of differing sects, who all have their favorite verses to rally round.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Its not just Jesus at issue here, because Christianity is not defined entirely by Jesus.

If it was...there would be no Christianity, because Christianity was invented by Paul.

As for picking and choosing, this is why it was neccessary for the early church to apply military force towards a unification of the religion.

With such a wide variety of scripture to pick and choose from, there will naturally be an explosive proliferation of differing sects, who all have their favorite verses to rally round.

Jesus is the focus because he renewed the scriptures. A idea that Christians use and avoid using to suit their purposes, but it is often mentioned. Otherwise Christians would just be a subset of Jews, an idea they wouldn't like.

Otherwise I agree with what you've said here. Favorite verses, favorite interpretations. Verses that are ignored. Etc.

[Orleander]

If the US gvmt keeps track of hate groups, is there a list? Is this group on it?

[sandy]

No, Westboro is not on the official hate group list. They're just weird and stupid. Not an actual danger to anyone.

[Orleander]

oh, ok.

[SkinWalker]

Off-Topic Posts Deleted