Will the Church ever die?

[Why?]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.

[Enmos]

:confused:

Is there any point to this thread ?

"you atheists" ?
Are we being a bit hateful again today ? :bugeye:

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Even the Bible, I believe, posits an end to history. Judgement day, the return of Christ and all that. What point would there be for Churches when the heavenly and the material are unified?

No one has ever mentioned churches in heaven.

Or from the scientific perspective: the heat death of the universe or the Big Crunch should dissipate or smush any churches that manage to last however many eons scientists give us.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Since you seem to be Christian, you might find that your Avatar is blasphemous. Since it is supposed to represent you.

[Myles]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.

Too true. Same goes for astrology.

[BlueMoose]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.
-By Church you mean Vatican ?
-Seen it all, doing it all ;)
-I´m worst kind of Christian from your point of view I guess since I´m Agnostic cherishing our pagan mythology Kalevala, hell for me ?
-How about Muslims, their religion has been around only 1500 years, has their belief in their God any meaning ?
-Just that I could grasp what are you after.

[spidergoat]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.

Probably. If you want to take ignorance for a win, go for it.

[Why?]

-By Church you mean Vatican ?
-Seen it all, doing it all ;)
-I´m worst kind of Christian from your point of view I guess since I´m Agnostic cherishing our pagan mythology Kalevala, hell for me ?
-How about Muslims, their religion has been around only 1500 years, has their belief in their God any meaning ?
-Just that I could grasp what are you after.

The Vatican has dealt with pagans before. Atheists are far more of a concern. Pagan beliefs, however absurd, still require faith. Atheists piss on faith. And yet, the Vatican has a long long history of dealing with atheists.

[BlueMoose]

1)The Vatican has dealt with pagans before.2) Atheists are far more of a concern. 3) Pagan beliefs, however absurd, still require faith. Atheists piss on faith. And yet, the Vatican has a long long history of dealing with atheists.

1) -How will I be dealt ?
2) -Why concern ?
3) - My beliefs are absurd ? I believe Kalevala is a metaphor of the sun, stars, moon and the other planets and how they created us, metapfore of a universe and The God himself, and that there is lot of wisdom to be found in that book, how is that absurd compared to Vatican set of beliefs.?.

[spidergoat]

The Vatican has dealt with pagans before. Atheists are far more of a concern. Pagan beliefs, however absurd, still require faith. Atheists piss on faith. And yet, the Vatican has a long long history of dealing with atheists.

I wouldn't be too proud of how the Vatican dealt with pagans...

http://www.falsereligionfacts.com/saw.jpg

[Enmos]

And yet, the Vatican has a long long history of dealing with atheists.

Examples ?

[spidergoat]

They either killed them or pandered to them by incorporating their ideas and holidays.

[Exiled]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.What is your point? Other then giving people information they already know?

[Enmos]

They either killed them or pandered to them by incorporating their ideas and holidays.

And he is proud of that ? :confused:

[Why?]

1) -How will I be dealt ?
2) -Why concern ?
3) - My beliefs are absurd ? I believe Kalevala is a metaphor of the sun, stars, moon and the other planets and how they created us, metapfore of a universe and The God himself, and that there is lot of wisdom to be found in that book, how is that absurd compared to Vatican set of beliefs.?.

1) You will be ignored as a raving lunatic.
2) God helps those who help themselves. Faith is a worldly as well as Heavenly struggle.
3) Kalevala has never existed. Jesus has.

I wouldn't be too proud of how the Vatican dealt with pagans...

http://www.falsereligionfacts.com/saw.jpg

That's one way. Rather harsh though.

And he is proud of that ? :confused:

Pandering, lobbying, sucking up to your boss. This is still in vogue you know.

Examples ?

Nazi Germany. Communist Russia.

[BlueMoose]

1) You will be ignored as a raving lunatic.
2) God helps those who help themselves. Faith is a worldly as well as Heavenly struggle.
3) Kalevala has never existed. Jesus has.

1) Thats good, I wouldnt want the treatment in former post.
2) I will be okay then I guess.
3) Kalevala is a metaphor of all things that have come to existence, we dont exist ? We have been in this before, you can not prove that Jesus didnt/did exist with better validity than that Kalevalas Mother God Ilmatar does/doesnt exist,
you blasphemous pagan ;)

[BlueMoose]

Get your history right, Hitler and Nazis were heavenly involved in occultism ~ non atheist.

[Nikelodeon]

Yes, death is inevitable.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

The Vatican has dealt with pagans before.
Yes, the Vatican gave its blessings to the breaking of commandments in relation to pagans.
The Vatican sinned and encourged others to sin.
By Jesus' standards.

[Yorda]

the church used to rule the world, but later science killed it. science rules the world today, but later i think it will die again.

the church died because it was wrong about things like... earth being the center of the solar system. science is wrong about big bang and evolution, so it will probably die.

[Enmos]

the church used to rule the world, but later science killed it. science rules the world today, but later i think it will die again.

the church died because it was wrong about things like... earth being the center of the solar system. science is wrong about big bang and evolution, so it will probably die.

science is wrong about big bang and evolution

What the hell.. ? :bugeye:

[Why?]

the church used to rule the world, but later science killed it. science rules the world today, but later i think it will die again.

the church died because it was wrong about things like... earth being the center of the solar system. science is wrong about big bang and evolution, so it will probably die.
Science has not killed the Church. Have you ever driven down the street and seen church after church after church? I agree that science is the most powerful opponent to the Church, but science has come nowhere close to killing the Church. As for the downfall of science, that could only happen if there were a reversion to the dark ages, which is possible but I wouldn't predict such a thing. How is evolution and the Big Bang wrong?

[Benthur]

The church has died. It doesn't carry the authority it once did. Not to say that churches should all be burned or something. Churches do many great things for people and their communities. Church doesn't mean what it meant when i was a girl, women are free to go on there own merit and can wear pants and now people can wear whatever they want to church. In my time that would have been very disrespectful to not show up in your absolute best clothes, but now many churches have sold out. They no longer demand respect just acceptance from all of their followers. People may not want to go to church if they know that they have to be uncomfortable for an hour. Besides i believe churches are perhaps more focused on their worship instead of controlling its supporters

[Why?]

Get your history right, Hitler and Nazis were heavenly involved in occultism ~ non atheist.

Occultism is close to atheism. Still, we have Communist Russia - no?

[shichimenshyo]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.

I imagine that as 2000 years is not even a dent in the time the earth has been around that, yea one day the "church" as we know it will cease to exist.

[Enmos]

I imagine that as 2000 years is not even a dent in the time the earth has been around that, yea one day the "church" as we know it will cease to exist.

Amen !

[Why?]

The church has died. It doesn't carry the authority it once did. Not to say that churches should all be burned or something. Churches do many great things for people and their communities. Church doesn't mean what it meant when i was a girl, women are free to go on there own merit and can wear pants and now people can wear whatever they want to church. In my time that would have been very disrespectful to not show up in your absolute best clothes, but now many churches have sold out. They no longer demand respect just acceptance from all of their followers. People may not want to go to church if they know that they have to be uncomfortable for an hour. Besides i believe churches are perhaps more focused on their worship instead of controlling its supporters

The Church is nowhere close to dead. Fashion trends by parishioners is not fatal.

[spidergoat]

Occultism is close to atheism. Still, we have Communist Russia - no?

Occultism involves superstition and is thus far closer to theism.

[Enmos]

The Church is nowhere close to dead. Fashion trends by parishioners is not fatal.

The church is disappearing.. slowly, but surely.
Atheists rule the future Christian.. :p

[Why?]

The church is disappearing.. slowly, but surely.
Atheists rule the future Christian.. :p

Highly unlikely. Atheists are mostly among the educated classes (which I am not claiming they are right just because they are educated), and unless the entire world starts going to college - atheists will not rule the world.

[BlueMoose]

Science has not killed the Church. Have you ever driven down the street and seen church after church after church? I agree that science is the most powerful opponent to the Church, but science has come nowhere close to killing the Church. As for the downfall of science, that could only happen if there were a reversion to the dark ages, which is possible but I wouldn't predict such a thing. How is evolution and the Big Bang wrong?

-Has every one ever wonder why science and "church" is in any war ?
-If there is science ~ God wanted it that way ?
-And science can ever prove something that is omnipotent.
-Or science ~ satan (hey, what kind site is this, spellchecker suggest that satan needs a capital letter ;) ) If that the case, well, then, hmmmm...........

[Exhumed]

Hm, in 2050 when Asia is most of the world (in a variety of senses), Christianity will be irrelevant.

[Benthur]

I think religion is more closely related to occults than atheism. When you put radical well known occults and religions side by side you can see that there isn't a difference. There's nothing wrong with that though. Everybody should believe in something or follow something its part of being human.

[spidergoat]

It's not just formal education, but the rise of internet connectivity and DVDs. More and more people are exposed to criticism of religion, and that's why more people are coming out as atheists.

[Enmos]

Highly unlikely. Atheists are mostly among the educated classes (which I am not claiming they are right just because they are educated), and unless the entire world starts going to college - atheists will not rule the world.

Are you saying theists are mostly uneducated or less educated people ?
I've got news for you, more and more people get an education these days. And atheism is on the rise, theism is in decline..

[Why?]

Occultism involves superstition and is thus far closer to theism.

Nazism involved nationalism or racism, which is closer to atheism.

[shichimenshyo]

Nazism involved nationalism or racism, which is closer to atheism.

How do you not get banned for your constant trolling?

[Why?]

Hm, in 2050 when Asia is most of the world (in a variety of senses), Christianity will be irrelevant.

What a silly comment. So, the whole Western world will become irrelevant just because the Chinese become the greatest consumer economy on earth?

[Why?]

It's not just formal education, but the rise of internet connectivity and DVDs. More and more people are exposed to criticism of religion, and that's why more people are coming out as atheists.

Gee, where do you get these atheist DVDs - Netflicks?

[Enmos]

Nazism involved nationalism or racism, which is closer to atheism.

That is quite a statement :eek:
Care to explain yourself ? :mad:

[Why?]

Are you saying theists are mostly uneducated or less educated people ?
I've got news for you, more and more people get an education these days. And atheism is on the rise, theism is in decline..

I am only saying atheist are generally more educated. But, the college level of education will not be spreading worldwide anytime soon.

[Enmos]

I am only saying atheist are generally more educated. But, the college level of education will not be spreading worldwide anytime soon.

It doesn't have to.

[Why?]

That is quite a statement :eek:
Care to explain yourself ? :mad:

Racism is simply appealing to a person's sense of pride in their skin color. No God necessarily involved. The lack of need to involve God in racism makes it more akin to atheism, which also has no need of God.

[shichimenshyo]

Racism is simply appealing to a person's sense of pride in their skin color. No God necessarily involved. The lack of need to involve God in racism makes it more akin to atheism, which also has no need of God.

But racism can also be included/ written into a theistic view, as can sexism. Whats your point here?

[Enmos]

Racism is simply appealing to a person's sense of pride in their skin color. No God necessarily involved. The lack of need to involve God in racism makes it more akin to atheism, which also has no need of God.

The logic is astounding.. :rolleyes:

[BlueMoose]

Occultism is close to atheism. Still, we have Communist Russia - no?

-Why should science and "church" to be opponents ?
-If there is science ~ God wanted it that way ?
-And science can ever prove something that is omnipotent.
-Or science ~ satan ?

-Communist Russia ? :bugeye: How about Orthodox Christian (biggest) ? -check facts
-Occultism close to atheism ? :bugeye: -explain.

-You really are trolling or just slamming words after words if cant answer.

[spidergoat]

Gee, where do you get these atheist DVDs - Netflicks?
There's Dawins' and Hitchen's new books, available on Amazon. More people are being exposed to the lie that is religion. It doesn't take a college education to understand it.

Nazism involved nationalism or racism, which is closer to atheism.

I was talking about your reference to "occultism". You are changing the subject. However, Nazism was all about Christianity defeating the Bolshiviks. Every German soldier had "God is with us" on his belt buckle.

[Why?]

There's Dawins' and Hitchen's new books, available on Amazon. More people are being exposed to the lie that is religion. It doesn't take a college education to understand it.



I was talking about your reference to "occultism". You are changing the subject. However, Nazism was all about Christianity defeating the Bolshiviks. Every German soldier had "God is with us" on his belt buckle.

But the uneducated won't even pick those books up.

[spidergoat]

They are written with the layperson in mind. They are no more difficult reading than the bible.

[Why?]

They are written with the layperson in mind. They are no more difficult reading than the bible.

Why would they pick it up? What solutions to life's problems do these books offer? They're esoteric academia, and will not be read by the masses.

[spidergoat]

...What solutions to life's problems do these books offer? ...

Fear of eternal damnation? Religious prohibitions on birth control? Jihad?

[Cris]

Religions and similar irrational superstitions will persist for as along as there are people who cannot, will not, or are unable to think for themselves, and who prefer to believe what they want rather than check for what is real.

The church once dominated the world - that was known as the dark ages. We now have a more enlightened world. In most parts of Europe, especially the UK, the Church is rapidly loosing its relevance and non-belief is very steadily on the increase. In the UK the archbishop of a few years ago was reported in a daily newspaper that he now considers the UK an atheist country. In some parts of Europe politicians would NOT be elected if they openly stated they were religious. The USA seems to be a special case where Christianity is still rampant, perhaps because the country is still young and has yet to gain the maturity that most of Europe is now experiencing.

I suspect as science and technology continue their geometrically increasing pace that we will see some key developments that will likely have a bearing on religious beliefs, such as –

1. Ever increasing longevity and quality of health in old age and probable breakthroughs in anti-aging research. Religions tend to thrive on suffering and death and if these things are less frequent or become “not inevitable” then religions will lose much of their message and basis.

2. The arrival of artificial intelligence, artificial self-awareness, and AI more advanced than humans. The church portrays man as the ultimate product of a beneficial creator. If we create something more advanced then where does that leave religion? If such developments do result in characteristics that religions associate with a soul but clearly we would not have created souls then the whole question of the soul concept would be in serious doubt.

At a social level if religious inspired terrorism continues its momentum and especially if a nuclear device is detonated as part of that then surely people will become frustrated with the irrational nature and destructive nature of religious indoctrination.

An increase in independent high quality public education around the world will also likely see the biggest impact on the demise of religions. As people become better informed and better educated then religions surely cannot survive in that light, as all the statistics over the past century have indicated. Note that the USA does not have a good record on such education standards.

[visceral_instinct]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.

And people wonder why atheists are 'pissy'.

[Why?]

Fear of eternal damnation? Religious prohibitions on birth control? Jihad?

How to be liked (love thy neighbor). How to survive death (eternal life). How to gain support from your neighbors (be a Christian just like them).

[Why?]

Religions and similar irrational superstitions will persist for as along as there are people who cannot, will not, or are unable to think for themselves, and who prefer to believe what they want rather than check for what is real.

The church once dominated the world - that was known as the dark ages. We now have a more enlightened world. In most parts of Europe, especially the UK, the Church is rapidly loosing its relevance and non-belief is very steadily on the increase. In the UK the archbishop of a few years ago was reported in a daily newspaper that he now considers the UK an atheist country. In some parts of Europe politicians would NOT be elected if they openly stated they were religious. The USA seems to be a special case where Christianity is still rampant, perhaps because the country is still young and has yet to gain the maturity that most of Europe is now experiencing.

I suspect as science and technology continue their geometrically increasing pace that we will see some key developments that will likely have a bearing on religious beliefs, such as –

1. Ever increasing longevity and quality of health in old age and probable breakthroughs in anti-aging research. Religions tend to thrive on suffering and death and if these things are less frequent or become “not inevitable” then religions will lose much of their message and basis.

2. The arrival of artificial intelligence, artificial self-awareness, and AI more advanced than humans. The church portrays man as the ultimate product of a beneficial creator. If we create something more advanced then where does that leave religion? If such developments do result in characteristics that religions associate with a soul but clearly we would not have created souls then the whole question of the soul concept would be in serious doubt.

At a social level if religious inspired terrorism continues its momentum and especially if a nuclear device is detonated as part of that then surely people will become frustrated with the irrational nature and destructive nature of religious indoctrination.

An increase in independent high quality public education around the world will also likely see the biggest impact on the demise of religions. As people become better informed and better educated then religions surely cannot survive in that light, as all the statistics over the past century have indicated. Note that the USA does not have a good record on such education standards.

America may be relatively young, but people in England still die in their 80's don't they?

[spidergoat]

Hey, you asked what solutions that books on atheism bring. Relief from the eternal torture fantasy, sexual freedom, and freedom from religious war are just a few among many.

[shichimenshyo]

How to be liked (love thy neighbor). How to survive death (eternal life). How to gain support from your neighbors (be a Christian just like them).

With the exception of eternal life, all these things can be taught without any theological base. As for the eternal life thing, everyone dies and its just a clever way of helping people cope with the fear of death.

[visceral_instinct]

Hey, you asked what solutions that books on atheism bring. Relief from the eternal torture fantasy, sexual freedom, and freedom from religious war are just a few among many.

Agreed. Less terrified teenagers posting on internet forums asking if they will go to hell for masturbating/being other than heterosexual/insert perfectly normal human tendencies here.

[Michael]

I think once death is eliminated most people will probably stop believing. Heck, in some places in the World most people accept there are no Gods anyway (Netherlands, Japan, China, Russia, etc...)

[Cris]

why,

America may be relatively young, but people in England still die in their 80's don't they?What's your point?

[Yorda]

Science has not killed the Church.

maybe not in USA, but in my country science has converted almost everyone into atheists (materialists). even i used to be.

How is evolution and the Big Bang wrong?

evolution is wrong because it doesn't take into account the designers and big bang is wrong because it didn't happen.

Occultism is close to atheism.

in the future both the church (spirit/mind) and science (matter) will be killed and melt together into a soup called occultism.

because both theists and atheists are partly right and partly wrong.

[Adstar]

The Word of God will never die.

Organizations that claim to represent the Word of God but do not, will die.



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Why?]

Hey, you asked what solutions that books on atheism bring. Relief from the eternal torture fantasy, sexual freedom, and freedom from religious war are just a few among many.

Freedom from eternal torture, but loss of everlasting bliss. I am 38 and have never fought in a religious war. Not much of an incentive there. Sexual freedom is your only argument. In other words, freedom from sin. But, while more sinning may be attractive to some wretches, it's not attractive to most.

[Challenger78]

Not a chance. Been around for 2000 years. Seen it all. People will continue to believe regardless of you atheists.

Religions come and go. So if you refer to the church as just a religion, then it will go and something else will replace it. But the practice of religion will never die.

[Why?]

why,

What's your point?

Just because England is older, doesn't mean it's smarter. It's not like England can claim to have wise men the age of 800. We all start out the same and end the same, in pretty much the same amount of time. In fact, America is an older democracy than England.

[geeser]

America is an older democracy than England.is it lol.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

is it lol.
His assertion deserves more than a lol.
It was a King, after all, trying to take back the colonies.

[joepistole]

Religion will always be as long as man retains his emotional self. Religions have always been. How they are presented and represented has changed but the fundamenetal beliefs and functions have not changed.

[SkinWalker]

Flames deleted and offenders notified. Temp Bans will be next should they continue.