Is this Blasphemy?

[pharaohmoan]

OK I had this arguement with a friend and I wanted to know what you think. This is what it is about:

Basically since a very young age I have had past life memories even recalling killing myself in one after having been bombarded with really intense negative energies, I've been a musician in another i recall having been a bird a lion a fish...it's a long list.

Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right. Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.

When I tie my life experiences in with the above I get a lot of confirmation that I am much older than the eye suggests. So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations? And yes I am a stable person but I have had a lot of spiritual experiences. But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!

[KennyJC]

That's just not even funny.

[Sarkus]

From your friend's point of view - yes - you are being blasphemous (if he is applying his beliefs correctly in calling you that initially).

But from your perspective, unless you somehow hold the same views as him (although if you believe what you seem to, is this possible?) then do you care that he thinks it is blasphemous beyond merely hurting his feelings as a friend?

[BlueMoose]

Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right.
-Did our universe come to existence from a big bang ?
-If so, what was there between universes? The Big Bang ? What did that look a like ? Its just that I dont buy The Big Bang theory myself.

[geeser]

OK I had this arguement with a friend and I wanted to know what you think. This is what it is about:

Basically since a very young age I have had past life memories even recalling killing myself in one after having been bombarded with really intense negative energies, I've been a musician in another i recall having been a bird a lion a fish...it's a long list.

Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right. Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.

When I tie my life experiences in with the above I get a lot of confirmation that I am much older than the eye suggests. So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations? And yes I am a stable person but I have had a lot of spiritual experiences. But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!I dont know what drug your on, but f**k me man it's far to strong.
embrace what you believe is true to you, but dont tell anybody else, for fear of ridicule.
You may think your not delusional but the rest of the world will.
Quite honestly if you do believe what your saying, they might even lock you in a padded cell because of it, so keep quiet.
This way you'll stay safe.

[pharaohmoan]

-Did our universe come to existence from a big bang ?
-If so, what was there between universes? The Big Bang ? What did that look a like ? Its just that I dont buy The Big Bang theory myself.

As far as I can gather and remember yes, but.....OK I'll go out on a limb here we being conscious energy at the time, and maybe even space time itself entered what we thought to be another world having assumed we 'made contact' for the first time with 'someone else'! Having entered that world we found for some reason we could not escape it (don't ask me why) this was when we collectively decided to explode. Because so much energy went into that initial small world is why matter in this universe is so dense as I recall we previously able to shape matter with mind before this universe. Can't say what it looked like but I can remember the chaos of regrouping. More than this I cannot and will not say as it starts to get hazy and religious.

[losfomoT]

I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right.

You must have one hell of a big hard drive in that brain of yours to store BILLIONS of years worth of memories. If I were you, I'd tell everyone! Write a book! "Pharaohmoan's History of the Universe (and Beyond)"

The people deserve to know the truth!

[pharaohmoan]

I dont know what drug your on, but f**k me man it's far to strong.
embrace what you believe is true to you, but dont tell anybody else, for fear of ridicule.
You may think your not delusional but the rest of the world will.
Quite honestly if you do believe what your saying, they might even lock you in a padded cell because of it, so keep quiet.
This way you'll stay safe.

Well thanks, this is what I try and do but what I don't understand is as a society we generally fear the unknown hence the reason why claims like my own are often ridiculed. Don't get me wrong I love science but I have found that you can only pile knowledge on top of knowledge for so long at times you have to take leaps of faith in order to obtain new information and knowledge. Except few including scientists are affraid to go out on a limb.
IMHO we will never move on both scientifically and literally unless we make some basic assumptions about the unknown. Even if it's based on logic. Now I am not saying we have to invoke God as soon as the unknown is mentioned but couldn't we at least allow for the possibility that we are a vessel of energy that continues 'through the ages'.

Right I'm off to change my proxy settings just in case!

P.S.- When does a thought become delusional anyway?

[pharaohmoan]

You must have one hell of a big hard drive in that brain of yours to store BILLIONS of years worth of memories. If I were you, I'd tell everyone! Write a book! "Pharaohmoan's History of the Universe (and Beyond)"

The people deserve to know the truth!

LOL, I do try and hold a lot of pieces of the puzzle together. I'd love to tell people but the question of Prove it! always comes up. How do you prove that the big bang was an error of judgement or that swimming upstream as a salmon is one of the hardest things I ever recall doing (i love those fish I do).
Most people live their lives and don't want to be bothered with fanciful errands of the mind, what if?, I wonder if ? etc hard facts we want and we want them know. Ptsshhhh:bawl:

As for writing a book perhaps in my next lifetime!

[geeser]

P.S.- When does a thought become delusional anyway?when it's spoken as truth, without verification.
So hush hush.

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

OK I had this arguement with a friend and I wanted to know what you think. This is what it is about:


Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. . Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.



I am the friend he was arguing with .i would like to point out that i am not a religious man,in this argument I was saying it would be regarded as blasphemy I was not saying he was being blasphemous under any of my beliefs. if claiming power and memories which are generally reserved for deities/gods/x-men or superman with no proof isn't blasphemy (bear in mind he is a catholic ) then i don't know what is.

[Saquist]

OK I had this arguement with a friend and I wanted to know what you think. This is what it is about:

Basically since a very young age I have had past life memories even recalling killing myself in one after having been bombarded with really intense negative energies, I've been a musician in another i recall having been a bird a lion a fish...it's a long list.

Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right. Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.

When I tie my life experiences in with the above I get a lot of confirmation that I am much older than the eye suggests. So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations? And yes I am a stable person but I have had a lot of spiritual experiences. But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!

pharaohmoan, I'm not sure if I understand what you're suggesting. Do you see your memories as proof you created or helped create all things?

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

OK I had this arguement with a friend and I wanted to know what you think. This is what it is about:

My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.

I have had a lot of spiritual experiences. But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!

When we percieve the world as young children we see through eyes with a dreamy mist where the most fantastical things seem possible santa,unicorns, wombles you could almost say a willy-wonkaesque world as we grow older our adult mind separates probability from improbability, possibility from imposssibility, fact from fiction .to say that you have had these memories from childhood isnt very reliable at all I.E.when i was 6 my teddy bear spoke to me in a funny squeak, my mind when i was a child was delighted when i was a few years older i realised teddys dont speak so it must have been a squeaky chair or another noise on the bus . I think you have failed to put an adult perception on these memories which could give them a more logical meaning I.E. you fell into a half-sleep in front of the t.v. when you were 5 and confused the background noise(storyline of dr who, star trek or whatever) with dreaming which made the memories seem more vivid, i'm not denying your memories just saying you have gone for the furthest out there possibility as opposed to logical explanation. You say that you have had lots of spiritual experiences ,well you are lucky cause 1p/cent of the population probably have 1 spiritual experience in a lifetime and they r grateful for it. You also say that crucialy you do not suffer from delusions at all. If you were suffering from delusions you wouldn't know it you would be deluded and it would be down to a shrink or friend to point it out.if you are that confident you are not deluded post your thread on a pshycology/phsyciatric thread and ill

[spidergoat]

pharaohmoan, the judeo-christian tradition does not acknowledge past lives, so yes, it is blasphemous.

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

[QUOTE=pharaohmoan;1712409][QUOTE=pharaohmoan;1712576] but what I don't understand is as a society we generally fear the unknown hence the reason why claims like my own are often ridiculed. Don't get me wrong I love science but I have found that you can only pile knowledge on top of knowledge for so long at times you have to take leaps of faith in order to obtain new information and knowledge. Except few including scientists are affraid to go out on a limb.
]

Leaps of faiths have been made like this before,(study any religious belief in the world) Ithink you are getting sciance mixed up with pseudo-science. Also in my opinion scientists generaly dont take leaps of faiths they work from aim,experimentation,and then conclude their findings as an end result. the leaps of faith your talking about seem to lean towards people beliving in you (QUOTE an crucialy i am not delusional at all) this is called charlatanism, and you probably have made a lot of money in the old wild west selling cure all tonic

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? To a Christian you are being blaspehmous or heretical. You're edging into pantheism.


. So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations?

I feel no inclination to say 'yes' but I find your question kind of strange. Would you listen to us if we told you do discard what you feel is true?

What are you hoping for here?

[sowhatifit'sdark]

pharaohmoan, the judeo-christian tradition does not acknowledge past lives, so yes, it is blasphemous.

I think it is better to say he is being heretical, see the definitions below.
And perhaps his friend is Muslim or Jewish.

blas·phe·my /ˈblæsfəmi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -mies.
1. impious utterance or action concerning God or sacred things.
2. Judaism.
a. an act of cursing or reviling God.
b. pronunciation of the Tetragrammaton (YHVH) in the original, now forbidden manner instead of using a substitute pronunciation such as Adonai.
3. Theology. the crime of assuming to oneself the rights or qualities of God.
4. irreverent behavior toward anything held sacred, priceless, etc.: He uttered blasphemies against life itself.

her·e·sy /ˈhɛrəsi/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[her-uh-see] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun, plural -sies.
[B]1. opinion or doctrine at variance with the orthodox or accepted doctrine, esp. of a church or religious system.
2. the maintaining of such an opinion or doctrine.
3. Roman Catholic Church. the willful and persistent rejection of any article of faith by a baptized member of the church.
4. any belief or theory that is strongly at variance with established beliefs, customs, etc.

My bolds.

[pharaohmoan]

pharaohmoan, I'm not sure if I understand what you're suggesting. Do you see your memories as proof you created or helped create all things?

Yikes no I'm just saying they are memories I don't remember any part of the creational process as such apart from the big bang itself.

[spidergoat]

Good point, sowhatifit'sdark.

[pharaohmoan]

To a Christian you are being blaspehmous or heretical. You're edging into pantheism.

I feel no inclination to say 'yes' but I find your question kind of strange. Would you listen to us if we told you do discard what you feel is true?

What are you hoping for here?

So I am being blasphemous to a Christian, well thats just great but I think I will still hold on to my memories and just not practice religion instead not if they would ostracise me.

I'm hoping to find out if my claims would offend christians. Plus it's interesting to see how people react to such claims. But it's not as though i can wipe my memories clean so I just have to learn to live with them and not get locked up in the meantime!

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I think it is better to say he is being heretical, see the definitions below.
And perhaps his friend is Muslim or Jewish.



I stated on my first post that i'm not religious and if you read my threads i'm more interested in the pshyciatric relevence of this thread ,

[Saquist]

Yikes no I'm just saying they are memories I don't remember any part of the creational process as such apart from the big bang itself.

Well...this is certainly a hard one.
I can't pass judgement on your memories. If I were you I would do a comparison. How accurate are they compared to what science says occured? Then compare them with what the Bible says occured. It could give some insight as too there origin that you make not have considered.

[SnakeLord]

But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!


Hi Pharaohmoan.

Just one question for now...

How do you know?

[PsychoticEpisode]

So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations?

I'd like to know who and where the few who make declarations are. They would be an interesting bunch for sure. Do you know of others with this remarkable memory?

I always thought a fish had a very short memory but incredibly you've managed to hold onto yours even though you were once a fish yourself.

Did you meet God or at least get to see Him work? Just for a minute there you had me thinking you were God or Christ reincarnate.

[Revolvr]

Seems to me this might just be provable. After all, this is a science forum. Problem here in this forum is most people here claim to reject anything that has not been scientifically verified - like God. Of course, that's a very unscientific world view.

God for example, could eventually be something that is scientifically provable. Once we get a better handle on the multi-dimensional aspects of this universe and start looking outside normal space and time.

But in your case, if you do in fact have useful memories of things that are outside of our current knowledge, instead of just an overactive imagination, perhaps you could describe something that no one knows but might be observable if we started looking for it.

Anyway, write your book. You never know, in your next life you may not have such a good memory.

[kaneda]

pharaohmoan. It has been known for some time that the mind literally makes up stories and what we believe as 100% true may in fact just be a fiction our own mind invented (as often happens in recovered memories and stories of past lives). I think this is what happened to you as it is just about impossible that what you believe is true.

[Saquist]

intresting. I didn't think of that along the same lines.
I propposed a comparison of evidence while you went one step further and propposed to him to reveal knowledge that would exemplify that knowledge.

That would be the most ideal form of evidence.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

I stated on my first post that i'm not religious and if you read my threads i'm more interested in the pshyciatric relevence of this thread ,
Fine and dandy.
But you can use the right term for it anyway.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

So I am being blasphemous to a Christian, well thats just great but I think I will still hold on to my memories and just not practice religion instead not if they would ostracise me.
To ostracise is to put you out of the community. It does not sound to me like you are in the community of Christians. Neither am I. Nor do I tailor my beliefs to fit those of Christians.

I'm hoping to find out if my claims would offend christians. Plus it's interesting to see how people react to such claims. But it's not as though i can wipe my memories clean so I just have to learn to live with them and not get locked up in the meantime!
I doubt you will offend them. But some will think you are spouting evil ideas. Most will consider you not a Christian - and many of these will assume you will, therefore go to Hell.

I don't know where you live, but I find it hard to believe you will get locked up by Christians. In the US it is not easy to commit someone to a mental hospital anymore. You'd really have to seem a danger to yourself or others. If you can hold down a job and talk calmly to a police officer, you can pretty much believe anything you like.

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

Fine and dandy.
But you can use the right term for it anyway.

Sorry. if u read my post's you will see i'm not into the religious aspect of this just stating to him in the argument that it would be seen as blasphemy. Considering there is no possible way of proof and considering that it sounds like something that people probably would have belived 2000 years ago i'm more inclined to belive that this is a classic if not textbook case of dilusionment . If energy cannot be destroyed and p/moan claims to be an energy that has been around for 5 billion years i think that it would be safe to say that he should know something that knowbody knows . The big bang who is right science or religion?? . If you were there you should know. I think the only way you can anwser this is with Circular Rhetoric (DO NOT KNOW IF THIS IS THE RIGHT TERM) or it will be awnsered with something which is also not provable, turn the anwser into a question, or use a lot of long words for explanation which actualy explains nothing . If you prove me wrong and give proof I will commit myself to happy acres. Part of the joys in gaining knowledge of life to me, Is being able to judge yourself right /wrong and fact/fiction, in childhood this is not possible as you generaly belive what were told.:eek:

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Sorry. if u read my post's you will see i'm not into the religious aspect of this just stating to him in the argument that it would be seen as blasphemy.
It would not be seen as blasphemy.
'Jesus fucking Christ' is blasphemy.
see the definitions.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Considering there is no possible way of proof and considering that it sounds like something that people probably would have belived 2000 years ago i'm more inclined to belive that this is a classic if not textbook case of dilusionment

disillusionment

noun
freeing from false belief or illusions [syn: disenchantment]

I think you are probably using this word incorrectly, unless you are saying what you are doing in relation to your friend is disillusionment.

So if you are trying to look at this from a psychological or psychiatric viewpoint, I still find your words confusing.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

If you prove me wrong and give proof I will commit myself to happy acres.

You are both people, right? Pinnochiio's Hoof and Phaorman, right?

Some things that are true cannot be proved. That is a part of life you need to accept.

[Crunchy Cat]

Basically since a very young age I have had past life memories even recalling killing myself in one after having been bombarded with really intense negative energies, I've been a musician in another i recall having been a bird a lion a fish...it's a long list.

What was your last past life? What was the person's name? Where did they live? When did they live? Where are they buried? Who are the kids?

When you were a lion, what shapes and colors do you recall from your environment? What did eating live animals taste like?



Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right. Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I?

Technically that's heresy as sowhatifit'sdark pointed out... but then so are evolution, electricity, and twinkies. Heresy doesn't objectively exist. It's only in the minds of theists.


So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations?

Yes, you should discard what you 'feel' is true and put it to the evidence test. Truth is the conformity of a concept or notion in the mind to actual reality. Evidence is a demonstration that a given reality is valid.

But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!

Everyone is delusional about something... there are no exceptions.

[Enmos]

Heresy doesn't objectively exist. It's only in the minds of theists.

:) :thumbsup:

[Adstar]

OK I had this arguement with a friend and I wanted to know what you think. This is what it is about:

Basically since a very young age I have had past life memories even recalling killing myself in one after having been bombarded with really intense negative energies, I've been a musician in another i recall having been a bird a lion a fish...it's a long list.

Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right. Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.

When I tie my life experiences in with the above I get a lot of confirmation that I am much older than the eye suggests. So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations? And yes I am a stable person but I have had a lot of spiritual experiences. But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!

I would not call it blasphemous as such but in the Bible sequence God created the World before He created humanity, also you will only live one life on this planet. You have been gifted with a great imagination, you should write a few books and get something out of it.


All Praise The Ancient Of Days

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I think you are probably using this word incorrectly, unless you are saying what you are doing in relation to your friend is disillusionment.

.

disillusionment in this context refers to a feeling that arises from the discovery that something is not what it was anticipated to be.Often, disillusionment is much more severe and traumatic than common disappointment especialy when a belief is central to ones identity is shown to be false (quote).

i.e. read chapter 2 in OLIVER SACKS'S an anthropologist on mars( the last hippie) the man lives at a krishna commune and suddenly changes physicaly becoming buddah like in shape, wondered round an a daze with an inane grin,he lost his hair and became blind. the swarmi said that he was entering a trancendental state and was becoming a holy man or saint. When the worried parents found him they took him to a surgeon where it was found that he had a tumor the size of a grapefruit which had destroyed parts of the brain.

[pharaohmoan]

Well...this is certainly a hard one.
I can't pass judgement on your memories. If I were you I would do a comparison. How accurate are they compared to what science says occured? Then compare them with what the Bible says occured. It could give some insight as too there origin that you make not have considered.

If it wasn't for science already putting forward the bang bang theory I would not have posted that I could remember it, but what I will say and whether science will eventually bee able to prove this or not I don't know, but I am sure this isn't our first time around. Appart from this and the possibility that energy can exibit signs of consciousness (a hunch) and most certainly that at an atomic level mind can manipulate matter. Much more than this I cannot add.

Hi Pharaohmoan.

Just one question for now...

How do you know?

How do I know if I suffer from delusions. The honest answer is I can only try and understand my mind as best as possible, I do not put others at risk and I do not scream about like a madman. Wikipedia says: A delusion is commonly defined as a fixed false belief and is used in everyday language to describe a belief that is either false, fanciful or derived from deception. In psychiatry, the definition is necessarily more precise and implies that the belief is pathological (the result of an illness or illness process). I cannot say my belief is false, fanciful or derived from deception. I can however say i have gone through a logical process of elimination and examined the memories that have always been with me and I comfortable that i have not just made up such things.

I'd like to know who and where the few who make declarations are. They would be an interesting bunch for sure. Do you know of others with this remarkable memory?

I always thought a fish had a very short memory but incredibly you've managed to hold onto yours even though you were once a fish yourself.

Did you meet God or at least get to see Him work? Just for a minute there you had me thinking you were God or Christ reincarnate.


Lots of children have made claims of past lives in fact a gentlemen by the name of Dr. Ian Stevenson has over 3000 documented cases of children recalling in detail aspects of their past lives.

What was memorible about the salmon thing was the intense strugle of fighting upstream to ensure the continuation of life, it was as though nothing else mattered but making it to the spawning ground and it is the intensity of that goal that has stuck with me.

I do not recall having met a God but I do recall the sound of what has been claimed in religious text to be seraphins. I have never heard the sound they make on earth yet.


But in your case, if you do in fact have useful memories of things that are outside of our current knowledge, instead of just an overactive imagination, perhaps you could describe something that no one knows but might be observable if we started looking for it.

Proof proof proof, everyone wants it yet I cannot give it.

pharaohmoan. It has been known for some time that the mind literally makes up stories and what we believe as 100% true may in fact just be a fiction our own mind invented (as often happens in recovered memories and stories of past lives). I think this is what happened to you as it is just about impossible that what you believe is true.

I accept that but there is always the question of what if? left with me, what if they are true.

What was your last past life? What was the person's name? Where did they live? When did they live? Where are they buried? Who are the kids?

Just to be sure I managed to find out about my previous lifetime I won't say who they were but I do recall them dying of a very rare kind of cancer and where they lived and worked was also verifyed by their records. I even remember the nationalty of the doctor who saw me.

When you were a lion, what shapes and colors do you recall from your environment? What did eating live animals taste like?

I remember there was a lot of shagging and hating jackels with such a vengeance that I wanted them wiped of the face of the earth.


Everyone is delusional about something... there are no exceptions.

You may have a point there.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Considering there is no possible way of proof and considering that it sounds like something that people probably would have belived 2000 years ago i'm more inclined to belive that this is a classic if not textbook case of dilusionment
Look, you are not communicating clearly. Referring to Phaoroman's belief you say it is a 'textbook case of dislusionment (sic). Which neither he nor his belief are an example of.

You meant, I believe, 'delusion'.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

i.e. read chapter 2 in OLIVER SACKS'S an anthropologist on mars( the last hippie) the man lives at a krishna commune and suddenly changes physicaly becoming buddah like in shape, wondered round an a daze with an inane grin,he lost his hair and became blind. the swarmi said that he was entering a trancendental state and was becoming a holy man or saint. When the worried parents found him they took him to a surgeon where it was found that he had a tumor the size of a grapefruit which had destroyed parts of the brain.
I've read the book. You realize of course that what you are doing here is an example of anecdotal evidence. In that particular case, it seems, from a neurologist's point of view that the man was ill and not near enlightenment. I might even agree with Sacks' 'diagnosis' if I could get closer to the people involved. But this proves, of course, nothing at all about phaoroman's beliefs.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Yes, you should discard what you 'feel' is true and put it to the evidence test. Truth is the conformity of a concept or notion in the mind to actual reality. Evidence is a demonstration that a given reality is valid.
.

Do you disregard everything that cannot be and has not yet been demonstrated true by scientific methods?

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

:spank::spank::pI think you are probably using this word incorrectly, unless you are saying what you are doing in relation to your friend is disillusionment.

So if you are trying to look at this from a psychological or psychiatric viewpoint, I still find your words confusing.

MY HUMBLEST APOLOGIES you are correct i did use the incorrect word I meant classic case of delusion or delusions of grandeur

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Hey, no problem.
just trying to get a handle on what your disagreement is with the other guy, if he is another guy and not you.

What is your concern if he accepts his belief as potentially correct?

Unless he is acting in ways that are taken as a danger to himself or others 1) he will probably not end up getting committed unless he demands to be himself 2) well, he's not a danger to himself or others. Since you are not interested in the religious issue - which probably does not matter anyway unless he forces his ideas on Christians or other monotheists, what is your concern here?

He may be deluded. His memory may in fact be more like a dream or some sort of false interpretation. Let's say this is true.

What is the worry?

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I've read the book. You realize of course that what you are doing here is an example of anecdotal evidence. But this proves, of course, nothing at all about phaoroman's beliefs.

I was trying to get him to realise the possibilities of alternative veiws. he states "crucialy i do not suffer from any delusions" on the same topic,I am an energy which is 5 billion years old , I remember being able to being able to manipulate matter with my mind, i've lived many lifetimes, i remember being various animals, he has refuted the possibility of error of judgement of a memory from his childhood
With the last hippie he was regarded as someone holy by the people at his temple. do you think it would have been better to leave him there to die ,or as a holy man to these people was it sacraligious to take him from the temple?
Me I think of it as a case of mis-understanding possibly going as far to say ignorance .he did not percieve himself as ill even when he went nearly blind. the other devotees ignored the disintergration of his body and mind as he was supposed to be reaching enlightenment, as with a lot of mental illnesses the people who suffer from them do not realise anything is wrong

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

What is the worry?


Well because i dont belive that his memories are what they say they are, as to me they are not logicaly possible . the anwser I get normaly during these arguments Is that I don't belive it because i don't understand it or i'm too narrow minded to accept it . when I ask for proof he says its not down to him to prove it but down to me and others to take aleap of faith. i'm not a shrink and i'm not a mug.
p.s. he is my housemate lives upstairs

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Well because i dont belive that his memories are what they say they are, as to me they are not logicaly possible . the anwser I get normaly during these arguments Is that I don't belive it because i don't understand it or i'm too narrow minded to accept it . when I ask for proof he says its not down to him to prove it but down to me and others to take aleap of faith. i'm not a shrink and i'm not a mug.
p.s. he is my housemate lives upstairs

(You are French, or Quebecquois, or some other ex-french colony I assume from what you wrote on another thread.)

If what you say he says is true, he's being pretty dogmatic himself. I assume be believes because of his experiences, or at least very much because of what he's experienced. So he should understand that you wouldn't believe him instantly without similar ones - or some form of proof, such as specific new knowledge, which it seems you demanded.

He is not basing his beliefs on a leap of faith, so why should you?

But now I understand that it is not really a worry, but more like each of you is judging the other.

You judge him as deluded
He sees you as narrowminded.

Me, I don't know if either of these are true. Maybe both are true. Maybe each is true to some degree.

Here's a suggestion.
Why not both of you stop labelling the other one. Then you can both take an exploratory approach to your relationship around his ideas. he can try to figure out how to make his ideas interesting, compelling, or valid to you. He could try to figure out a way to have you have a similar experience. You could explore by following his instructions and, if they do not lead to anything new for you, you can say this to him, not as proof that he is wrong, but information he can use around spreading his ideas or sharing them. You could also just ask him a lot of questions about his experiences and ideas, even investigate the implications, together: what would it mean if they are true. In the spirit of exploration or brainstorming.

As long as he isn't leaping off buildings or running at people with a knife, I would avoid focussing on the truth of his ideas - in some final way - but rather focus on making the relationship work.

Even if his ideas are not grounded in reality, I think this exploration could be interesting for you and educational. How does one communicate internal experiences? What is valid epistemology? What assumptions do you have about reality yourself? (even if they are all true, in the process of discussion and exploration, you will get to know these assumptions better, and that is a good thing)

And even if he is right, it is still good for him to learn about how to communicate. And one can learn how to do by teaching. He may become conscious of what he is doing, all steps in it as he teaches it or describes it to you.

Or you can both stay in the 'I'm right you're ______' mode. I mean that can be the right thing. I would not for example sit down with a Nazi and try to 'learn how to be racist', but given that this difference you have is not like that, hey, why not get along and learn from each other.

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

(If what you say he says is true, he's being pretty dogmatic himself. I assume be believes because of his experiences, or at least very much because of what he's experienced. So he should understand that you wouldn't believe him instantly without similar ones - or some form of proof, such as specific new knowledge, which it seems you demanded.

He is not basing his beliefs on a leap of faith, so why should you?

You judge him as deluded
He sees you as narrowminded.

.

Excellently impartialy put.
I've been around , i've seem things I can't explain , I probably agree with him more than i disagree on other topics . me and p/moan will probably never agree on this but heh c'est la vie.

LOL i'm not french i'm a german born half irish british european with jamacian step-family i'm in more of a confused state than him.
I'm a proffesional chef and had to learn french when I worked in paris:tempted:

[John99]

If we were to be honest, every man woman and child wakes up every morning with some degree of delusion. If yours are more creative i see no problem with that.

[Revolvr]

Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.

When I tie my life experiences in with the above I get a lot of confirmation that I am much older than the eye suggests. So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations? And yes I am a stable person but I have had a lot of spiritual experiences. But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!

How do you know these memories you have are from your own past? Suppose that all life is both spiritual and physical. We normally have little insight into the spiritual world, existing outside of our known space and time.

But suppose you have a leak - an open window into the spiritual realm outside space and time. You could be seeing events that happened to other living things, people, fish, whatever. But these experiences might not actually be you.

And since these memories come across from outside space-time as we know it, could some memories be of events that actually occur in the future? Once outside of space-time the entire tapestry of existence unfolds like a carpet before you. Perhaps even your memory of assembling the universe is for the next universe, not this one. So even if these memories are of your spirit, they need not be confined to the past.

This is why I suggest we try to verify if any of these memories are real and from the past. But I'd also suggest you search your memories for anything that might be from the future.

Just some thoughts.

[Crunchy Cat]

Do you disregard everything that cannot be...

Only when I know it cannot be... ex. I will not be 10 feet taller 5 seconds ago.


...and has not yet been demonstrated true by scientific methods?

It depends why it can't be demonstrated.

[Myles]

[QUOTE=Revolvr;1713275]Seems to me this might just be provable. After all, this is a science forum. Problem here in this forum is most people here claim to reject anything that has not been scientifically verified - like God. Of course, that's a very unscientific world view.

God for example, could eventually be something that is scientifically provable. Once we get a better handle on the multi-dimensional aspects of this universe and start looking outside normal space and time.


But in your case, if you do in fact have useful memories of things that are outside of our current knowledge, instead of just an overactive imagination, perhaps you could describe something that no one knows but might be observable if we started looking for it.

Anyway, write your book. You never know, in your next life you may not have such a good memory.

If the existence of god is ever proven, which I doubt, it will be in the form of a set of mathematical equations. Would you be happy with that ?

[Crunchy Cat]

Just to be sure I managed to find out about my previous lifetime I won't say who they were but I do recall them dying of a very rare kind of cancer and where they lived and worked was also verifyed by their records. I even remember the nationalty of the doctor who saw me.

Why not share the complete information of that last life on this forum? It would establish credibility to your claim (not to mention you might be eligible to win a million dollars if you wanted).



I remember there was a lot of shagging and hating jackels with such a vengeance that I wanted them wiped of the face of the earth.

Interesting. What were the colorations of the lions and jackals in your area?

[pharaohmoan]

How do you know these memories you have are from your own past? Suppose that all life is both spiritual and physical. We normally have little insight into the spiritual world, existing outside of our known space and time.
Woah this is deep :wallbang: Well most of the time they've just felt as though they're from the past plus I checked out one lifetime and confirmed that the person was dead and what they had died from, a rare form of cancer which I already knew.


But suppose you have a leak - an open window into the spiritual realm outside space and time. You could be seeing events that happened to other living things, people, fish, whatever. But these experiences might not actually be you.
Now this is where it gets interesting because I was actually 7 years old in this body when I died in my previous body. There is an overlap of me inhabiting 2 bodies at the same time. This may sugest an open window as you put it outside of space time. What your suggesting in the later part of your sentance I have experienced as remote viewing where i recall memories of several other people and recall their daily activities, conquests, and turmoils. The timeline of these memories is however vague but does seem linear


And since these memories come across from outside space-time as we know it, could some memories be of events that actually occur in the future?

This has happened to me once already when I was aged nine I dreamt of a day I lived (in complete dejavu when I was 21. My hunch is the astral realms I visit are more likely to be future events as I often recall faces I do not recognise from this lifetime, as though I know them but have not met them yet.


Once outside of space-time the entire tapestry of existence unfolds like a carpet before you. Perhaps even your memory of assembling the universe is for the next universe, not this one. So even if these memories are of your spirit, they need not be confined to the past.

One thing I have experienced a lot is the fickle nature of time in other words when an individual tryly connects to the universe time seems to become non-linear and occasionally non-local.


This is why I suggest we try to verify if any of these memories are real and from the past. But I'd also suggest you search your memories for anything that might be from the future. Just some thoughts.

There are two other occasions when I accessed the future once i was witness to great technologies that had not been built yet (this was BC time)
the other was a preview of this lifetime.

[pharaohmoan]

Why not share the complete information of that last life on this forum? It would establish credibility to your claim (not to mention you might be eligible to win a million dollars if you wanted).

Originally Posted by pharaohmoan
I remember there was a lot of shagging and hating jackels with such a vengeance that I wanted them wiped of the face of the earth.


Interesting. What were the colorations of the lions and jackals in your area?

Don't have enough information for the million yet! Plus ( in a very tibetan voice) money is too materialist and detracts the mind from its true purpose.

As for the jackels well they were scragy brown looking things may have had stripes. Oh and I was shagging lionesses no jackels as the post might suggest.

[pharaohmoan]

If the existence of god is ever proven, which I doubt, it will be in the form of a set of mathematical equations. Would you be happy with that ?

I would be. My guess is that in order to appreciate such a hypothesis i would myself have to be a genius mathematician which I am not so allas such proof would have to be in laymans terms or it would wash over me and many others.

[Revolvr]

Woah this is deep :wallbang: Well most of the time they've just felt as though they're from the past plus I checked out one lifetime and confirmed that the person was dead and what they had died from, a rare form of cancer which I already knew.


Oh yes, and it gets much deeper. Let me ask you about these memories. Are they really like memories, something you can recall that seems like your past? Or are these more like brief visions, almost a waking dream. For example you might be standing somewhere and you suddenly get this vision in your mind's eye of seeing something, as if you were momentarily somewhere else in time? Then it goes away as fast as it came on?

[Saquist]

If it wasn't for science already putting forward the bang bang theory I would not have posted that I could remember it, but what I will say and whether science will eventually bee able to prove this or not I don't know, but I am sure this isn't our first time around. Appart from this and the possibility that energy can exibit signs of consciousness (a hunch) and most certainly that at an atomic level mind can manipulate matter. Much more than this I cannot add.

.

Can you tell me what you saw or remember which led you to this idea?

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

Don't have enough information for the million yet!

You say this?!?!? yet in post 53 you state that you checked out 1 lifetime and confirmed that the person was dead (so you should have a name? you could be tested with your memories against the recals of the family of the dead person about his life)and that he died from a rare form of cancer(could be checked through hospital records)?
At the end of the next paragraph you say you have recalled memories of several peoples daily activities, conquests, and turmoils(names and events could probably be easily proved).
To you this may not seem like enough information but I would have thought any information on the unknown which could throw light on things currently unproveable would be gold and you would live in lab.:fart:

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

Perhaps this thread should be is this true? not is this blasphemy?:crazy:

[visceral_instinct]

Dude. Less of that adrenochrome.

[Revolvr]

Perhaps this thread should be is this true? not is this blasphemy?:crazy:

Agreed, move this to parapsychology

[pharaohmoan]

Oh yes, and it gets much deeper. Let me ask you about these memories. Are they really like memories, something you can recall that seems like your past? Or are these more like brief visions, almost a waking dream. For example you might be standing somewhere and you suddenly get this vision in your mind's eye of seeing something, as if you were momentarily somewhere else in time? Then it goes away as fast as it came on?

Yes they are real memories, I recall how I felt, the light, emotions and sounds. Waking trance like meditative states are a very different for me and don't involve memories except for the type of connection to the universe being made. In these case the memory is oh yes I remember this universal conundrum, humor, connection, instability etc.
Never had a minds eye vision before. have you? If so what ist this like? you seem to know what you are talking about on this matter. Do you have any theories you are building on about the nature of our reality?

[pharaohmoan]

Can you tell me what you saw or remember which led you to this idea?

I could simply manipulate the matter around me, moving vast amounts of water for example, moving rocks with thought, and being able to pass through matter with ease.

[Crunchy Cat]

Don't have enough information for the million yet! Plus ( in a very tibetan voice) money is too materialist and detracts the mind from its true purpose.

What evidence do you have? Share it.


As for the jackels well they were scragy brown looking things may have had stripes. Oh and I was shagging lionesses no jackels as the post might suggest.

In that case I want to point out an objective contradiction to your claim. Lions cannot see color.

[Michael]

pharaohmoan,

Did every one of your animal incarnations see in color? Suppose your memory suggests yes but you then find out those animals do not have the sense for color? Then what do you think about your memory? Have you ever tried to look up a past life? Suppose someone from the late 1800s or WWII?

Lastly, think about this, everything you are seeing right now is obviously a construct in your mind. All of it. But here are are duplicating the world in your head at break-neck speed 24/7. Well, it's of no surprise that most of it is actually illusion. Your mind fills in the blanks and you tunnel vision in on something. Now imagine that you are half-asleep or otherwise a little off in your perception. It may be at these times you feel you are somewhere and someone else. Are you in reality? No. But it appears you are.

Just remember everything is in our minds anyway,
Michael

[fusion4577]

these could always be plosiblos, but you might want to look into somthing called the string theroy. it might be true, but i think it is blasphomy.(keep in mind that anyone can be wrong, you, me, Dr. hawkings even!)

[fusion4577]

could this be a sign of early memoryor thought, like meomry of watching a film?

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Perhaps this thread should be is this true? not is this blasphemy?:crazy:
While you are quite right about the shift in thread focus, I notice, by the emoticon, that you decided not to take up my suggestion.

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

You say this?!?!? yet in post 53 you state that you checked out 1 lifetime and confirmed that the person was dead (so you should have a name? you could be tested with your memories against the recals of the family of the dead person about his life)and that he died from a rare form of cancer(could be checked through hospital records)?
At the end of the next paragraph you say you have recalled memories of several peoples daily activities, conquests, and turmoils(names and events could probably be easily proved).
To you this may not seem like enough information but I would have thought any information on the unknown which could throw light on things currently unproveable would be gold and you would live in lab.:fart: hmmm

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

While you are quite right about the shift in thread focus, I notice, by the emoticon, that you decided not to take up my suggestion.

I tried but everytime I think its over he gains more neo-human ,deity superman traits, I can't keep up:bugeye:

[pharaohmoan]

pharaohmoan,

Did every one of your animal incarnations see in color? Suppose your memory suggests yes but you then find out those animals do not have the sense for color? Then what do you think about your memory? Have you ever tried to look up a past life? Suppose someone from the late 1800s or WWII?

Lastly, think about this, everything you are seeing right now is obviously a construct in your mind. All of it. But here are are duplicating the world in your head at break-neck speed 24/7. Well, it's of no surprise that most of it is actually illusion. Your mind fills in the blanks and you tunnel vision in on something. Now imagine that you are half-asleep or otherwise a little off in your perception. It may be at these times you feel you are somewhere and someone else. Are you in reality? No. But it appears you are.

Just remember everything is in our minds anyway,
Michael

No the colour thing doesn't bother me as the human mind would most likely fill in the colour as a black and white memory would not make as much sense !

Funny when i hear the mind construct my ears prick up and I'm ready to immerse myself into the unknown. However I think once you reach a certain level of mediation what is true and what is illusion is as clear as mist sorry mud no water, yes that's right clear as water.

[pharaohmoan]

You say this?!?!? yet in post 53 you state that you checked out 1 lifetime and confirmed that the person was dead (so you should have a name? you could be tested with your memories against the recals of the family of the dead person about his life)and that he died from a rare form of cancer(could be checked through hospital records)?
At the end of the next paragraph you say you have recalled memories of several peoples daily activities, conquests, and turmoils(names and events could probably be easily proved).
To you this may not seem like enough information but I would have thought any information on the unknown which could throw light on things currently unproveable would be gold and you would live in lab.:fart:

I've already checked up some information based on remote views and past lives and yes they checked out even the small details I was able to get info on and confirm. I'll not put the details up on here as in reality I could have easily looked up some dead bloke, posted details about him and claimed it to be me. Anyway it's not something I want to make public the main point of this thread was to find out if my thoughts offended others not so much about the detail of my previous lifetimes. For some reason I am able to bypass the normal mental blockages that prevent people from remember where they have been before, maybe the reason people don't remember is some sort of cosmic law who knows. What I thought would interest the people on this forum is that someone out there (that would be me) has been able to access memories going so far back. Maybe just maybe assuming when you die and pass to a higher dimension information and memory recall is freely available on the big bang or other lifetimes.

[losfomoT]

Anyway it's not something I want to make public

So just keep it to this thread, any details you give are not going to make anyone here think any different about you than they do right now.

the main point of this thread was to find out if my thoughts offended others not so much about the detail of my previous lifetimes.

What offends me is someone claiming to have clear memories of past lives and then refusing to give any details that might support or refute their claim.

What I thought would interest the people on this forum is that someone out there (that would be me) has been able to access memories going so far back. Maybe just maybe assuming when you die and pass to a higher dimension information and memory recall is freely available on the big bang or other lifetimes.

Sure it may interest us, but only if there is some sort of evidence to support the claim.

Maybe just maybe? We're not interested in maybe just maybe. We already know there are an infinite maybe just maybe's. Maybe just maybe you're not even slightly delusional. Maybe just maybe you're making this all up for some attention.

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

I've already checked up some information based on remote views and past lives and yes they checked out even the small details I was able to get info on and confirm. I'll not put the details up on here as in reality I could have easily looked up some dead bloke, posted details about him and claimed it to be me.
Someone mentioned a million dollars,it won't be that easy.
some reason I am able to bypass the normal mental blockages that prevent people from remember where they have been before, maybe the reason people don't remember is some sort of cosmic law .
Define normal mental blockages, what is the connection between cosmic energies and people not thinking that they have lived before. not everyone
can have lived before think of the math.
just maybe assuming when you die and pass to a higher dimension information and memory recall is freely available on the big bang or other lifetimes.
Do you mean another dimension??
Or do you mean higher than the other 11(don't quote me i could be wrong)dimensions and there for a new dimension if thats the case you should write a dissertation and post it for exegesis

[Jozen-Bo]

That it is not!!!!

You got a good memory, use it!!!!!

Regards,
Jozen

[Revolvr]

When you said you had memories of two living people that overlapped, I suspected you are not having memories of past lives, but are seeing different lives at different times. Are you convinced these are past lives, and why? Or was that just an assumption.

[pharaohmoan]

So just keep it to this thread, any details you give are not going to make anyone here think any different about you than they do right now.

They might think I am slightly delusional. If it were me looking in on someone who posted this thread i would probably want proof also but at the end of the day any proof I might offer would be open to ridicule.

Maybe just maybe? We're not interested in maybe just maybe. We already know there are an infinite maybe just maybe's. Maybe just maybe you're not even slightly delusional. Maybe just maybe you're making this all up for some attention.

I can't do much about eliminating the maybes I'm affraid but I can take your name and address and visit you in my next life if that would help.

[pharaohmoan]

Define normal mental blockages, what is the connection between cosmic energies and people not thinking that they have lived before. not everyone
can have lived before think of the math.

Do you mean another dimension??
Or do you mean higher than the other 11(don't quote me i could be wrong)dimensions and there for a new dimension if thats the case you should write a dissertation and post it for exegesis


Well asuming as in my case past lives are a posibility there is also the posibility that most people are not able to either mentally remember them or that these memories are blocked.
Indeed not everyone can have lived before but people may have been animals beforehand for example and their are plenty of those. In fact I'd go as far as to say to become human is a progressional thing though different lifeforms.

Yes I mean another dimension otherwise we'd be able to see dead people all the time and no doubt other weird and wonderful beings and energies. I wouldn't be able to tell you which dimension however.

[pharaohmoan]

When you said you had memories of two living people that overlapped, I suspected you are not having memories of past lives, but are seeing different lives at different times. Are you convinced these are past lives, and why? Or was that just an assumption.

Good point. I'm not sure I've asked myself that question before. My best answer is that my thoughts beliefs etc seemed to really gel with this other person. The werid thing is when they entered my body is was like being downloaded information. Maybe when a life moves on it only retains a few key memories for the next lifeform. It certainly wasn't remote viewing as the dead spirit entered my body no vica versa. But esentially you are right I may have been seeing another lifetime if so I can't really tell the two appart they are so closely linked. Maybe that what they say about being as one.

[losfomoT]

They might think I am slightly delusional. If it were me looking in on someone who posted this thread i would probably want proof also but at the end of the day any proof I might offer would be open to ridicule.

No, the claim itself (which you have already made) is the only thing open to ridicule. Nobody here is going to care how corny you sound. The only way you are going to make a real impact that might bring you to the public eye is if you manage to convince people (with evidence) that you might be telling the truth. Besides, who cares what people think? It's the internet! Do you think we'll track you down and put you in a straight jacket?

[Crunchy Cat]

No the colour thing doesn't bother me as the human mind would most likely fill in the colour as a black and white memory would not make as much sense !

It doesn't do so for people whom are color-blind. Also, when you watch a movie in black and white, do you remember the movie in color? If not, then consider an entire lifetime of a lion. Years of black and white sensory information.

[Leo Volont]

OK I had this arguement with a friend and I wanted to know what you think. This is what it is about:

Basically since a very young age I have had past life memories even recalling killing myself in one after having been bombarded with really intense negative energies, I've been a musician in another i recall having been a bird a lion a fish...it's a long list.

Now here's where it gets a bit weird I have memories going back since before creation and actually recall the 'coming together' of the elements and the trial and error process of getting it right after the big bang. I also recall that it is not the first universe but is at the very least the second attempt at trying to get right. Now my friend is saying I am being blasphemous by saying this. Am I? My defense to is that I will not deny my own memories, memories which have been with me since childhood and which I have carried with me from lifetime to lifetime.

When I tie my life experiences in with the above I get a lot of confirmation that I am much older than the eye suggests. So should I discard what I feel is true just because very few would believe me or should I embrace that I am one of the few that can make such declarations? And yes I am a stable person but I have had a lot of spiritual experiences. But crucially I do not suffer from any delusions at all!

You can't at the same time say you have suffered no delusions while saying that you had delusions of having Past Lives.

You see, all dreams are in a sense delusional. You have a dream in which you have First Person Experence as a Character in some Dream Scene. Yes, as a Subjective Experience it is as real as any Subjective Experience could be. But Objectively Real as in the sense that it actually ever happened? Not likely. And EVEN IF it did once happen, it may have happened to SOMEBODY, and you may have even snuck in and tasted the MEMORY of it... it it was not YOUR OWN memory. You were fooled by it being presented in the Grammatical FIRST PERSON -- I saw this, I did that... it is simply how MEMORIES are arranged... that is how they play back... It is always I I I I I.

Now, that explains everything. So now you need to ask yourself why you had not thought of it. Why is it that people will be so ready to believe they had lead Past Lives when 5 minutes of independent thought would have given them a rather obvious explanation for it all? I believe it is a matter of people wishing to be Self Aggrandizing.

Now, I would think personally that it is enough of an honor to be given a Good Dream or to have been given a 'look' into somebody's Memory. It is a gift, afterall. So why make something more of it than it already is.

Why gild the lilly?

I guess it is all a matter of the Delusional Personality at work.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

You can't at the same time say you have suffered no delusions while saying that you had delusions of having Past Lives.

You see, all dreams are in a sense delusional. You have a dream in which you have First Person Experence as a Character in some Dream Scene. Yes, as a Subjective Experience it is as real as any Subjective Experience could be. But Objectively Real as in the sense that it actually ever happened? Not likely. And EVEN IF it did once happen, it may have happened to SOMEBODY, and you may have even snuck in and tasted the MEMORY of it... it it was not YOUR OWN memory. You were fooled by it being presented in the Grammatical FIRST PERSON -- I saw this, I did that... it is simply how MEMORIES are arranged... that is how they play back... It is always I I I I I.

Now, that explains everything. So now you need to ask yourself why you had not thought of it. Why is it that people will be so ready to believe they had lead Past Lives when 5 minutes of independent thought would have given them a rather obvious explanation for it all? I believe it is a matter of people wishing to be Self Aggrandizing.

Now, I would think personally that it is enough of an honor to be given a Good Dream or to have been given a 'look' into somebody's Memory. It is a gift, afterall. So why make something more of it than it already is.

Why gild the lilly?

I guess it is all a matter of the Delusional Personality at work.

Your hypothesis:
his experiences which he calls memories are really dreams. And since they are dreams they are delusions.
Care to back up this hypothesis with proof?
See if you approach his hypothesis simply with skepticism or disbelief, it is one thing.

"I am not convinced your experiences are memories. I find this or that more likely."

But you are making an assertion about the nature of his experiences. Based of course on your intuition.

[pharaohmoan]

Your hypothesis:
his experiences which he calls memories are really dreams. And since they are dreams they are delusions.
Care to back up this hypothesis with proof?
See if you approach his hypothesis simply with skepticism or disbelief, it is one thing.

"I am not convinced your experiences are memories. I find this or that more likely."

But you are making an assertion about the nature of his experiences. Based of course on your intuition.

As far as I am aware dreams occur during sleep and mediation mine happened whist awake so I cannot and will not use a dream hypohesis.

I'll find out when I die what the truth of the matter is and for now that is good enough for me. I am certainly going to recommend that the doors are closed behind for earth people because I think generally speaking they are gready self centred creatures that are materialistic and shallow (not on this forum of course). they contaminate purity beyond and pure thought and have no idea of what true progression is.

[Leo Volont]

Your hypothesis:
his experiences which he calls memories are really dreams. And since they are dreams they are delusions.
Care to back up this hypothesis with proof?
See if you approach his hypothesis simply with skepticism or disbelief, it is one thing.

"I am not convinced your experiences are memories. I find this or that more likely."

But you are making an assertion about the nature of his experiences. Based of course on your intuition.

Now I have to prove that dreams exist, and that dreams are a form of delusion.

Get real.

[Pinocchio's Hoof]

Now I have to prove that dreams exist, and that dreams are a form of delusion.

Get real.

If a child's perception of reality is taken as it is thrust upon them,i.e. santa clause, toothfairy,babies and storks, then it is not an delusion they have just not realised the logic in what they see-

-Santa=Incentive for reward,bribery for not mis-behaving
-Toothfairy=side track from toothache,quietness for cash.
-Babies/sks=A way to avoid embarissing issue's.

The existence is real but,the reality of it's existence is in the way it is percieved,the physicality/actuality lies in the understanding of what you see as oposed to quick glance.

As an adult he may have seen something which was thrust upon him-

-Audio media manipulition
-literal culture sabotage
-the realisation where your tax goes:roflmao:

but his understanding is so distorted it gives it no physical being,the existence is real ,but the correct understanding could give way to physicality.


'I honed In on his phsycic energies'!!!=
'I have an accute understanding of body language' but as I do not know what I see my understanding in the preliminary bit gives it no physicality even though it exists?? (please excuse spelling,just layzyness)

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Now I have to prove that dreams exist, and that dreams are a form of delusion.

Get real.
Wow. No. Not the first part.

I meant you need to prove that his experiences which you seem to refer to as dreams are really delusions. You know that he is not interpreting his experiences correctly.

That needs back up.

In other words, I would have no problem with you deciding not to accept his experiences as the truth. But you went further. You claim to KNOW what his experiences really are and what they are not. You KNOW they are dreams/delusions and KNOW they are not memories.

You understand that such assertions require back up, just as you would demand them of anyone making a claim about reality. You made a claim about THIS SPECIFIC PERSON and what his experiences REALLY are.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

As far as I am aware dreams occur during sleep and mediation mine happened whist awake so I cannot and will not use a dream hypohesis.

This is part of why I challenged him. He decided what you had experienced were really dreams and since dreams are delusions - a weak equivalence in my mind, but not as important.

In other words, I would have no problem with him deciding not to accept you experiences as the truth. He didn't have them. They don't fit his worldview, so he would need either similar experiences himself and/or some sort of evidence. Fine. But he went further. He claims to KNOW what your experiences really are and what they are not. He knows they are dreams/delusions and they are not memories.

To make such a claim puts an onus of proof on him.

[pharaohmoan]

OK we have a problem. Even if my memories are dreams there are many who would disagree with you that dreams are delusional. Yes some people claim that dreams are just that dreams but I and many other happen to think that on occasions that are astral worlds. It all depends on what leaps of faith you have taken about the unknown. I for one have seen a real coherance and organisaion to dream worlds that I cannot explain. There are charactors in my dreams that I seem to recognise for example.
For me taking a leap in the belief that life goes and and some of us can take memories and experiences with us is an easy step for me to take. The difference with me is I haven't just made these claims on a whim and have already eliminated memories which fall into the dream catagory or are delusional, in other words I understand what a delusion is and what a posibility is so as a minimun I have to accept the posibility that yes my memories going all the way back to the big bang are real. Just because you have not had the same lifetimes of experiences that I have had, physical and non-physical does not mean you should discard someone who makes such claims this is imho closed minded and you are ergo refusing to allow your belief system to bend to 'the possibility' that I am not actually deluded'. There are millions who beleive in God even though they have never seen him but speak to him in prayer and often claim to have been touhed by God, but yet God does not speak back to them (not verbally) are they all deluded? You might think they are, if you do then you are not allowing for any of the unknown elements of our universe to creap into your belief system and are remaining totally in the physical. If you remain in the physical then you will dogamically make claims of dulusion against those who express that there may be truths to unproveable (as yet) claims. Take string theory for example and the radical claims that some are making about particles and how they may be multidimentional. We are also made of matter so ergo it is possible that we may exist in other dimensions. Do you understand that i am also using a words that others have accepted IS A POSIBILITY ie the word dimension and multidimensional. The use of such words 100 years ago would have been frowned upon but is now much more commonplace. Things are changing.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

OK we have a problem. Even if my memories are dreams there are many who would disagree with you that dreams are delusional.

You do realize that I am defending you from his (psychic) interpretation of your experiences. (You may be responding to him, but I am not sure you get what I am doing here. He said he KNOWS what your memories really are. He has to back that up.

I am not in any way saying what you have described are delusions.

When I say he KNOWS, I am pointing out his certainty and that he is making a claim. I am not saying he is right.

[pharaohmoan]

You do realize that I am defending you from his (psychic) interpretation of your experiences. (You may be responding to him, but I am not sure you get what I am doing here. He said he KNOWS what your memories really are. He has to back that up.

I am not in any way saying what you have described are delusions.

When I say he KNOWS, I am pointing out his certainty and that he is making a claim. I am not saying he is right.

Thanks, that post was not really aimed at you but rather leo who is being dogmatic about his approach.

I think much of this is about understanding the mind also and if one doesn't then I can understand how delusions may creap in. I on the other hand do understand my mind which is why I think I've been able to preserve many lifetimes of memories. Of course there will always be the question of proof but maybe it's not just about proof maybe just maybe its about truth and faith.

[sowhatifit'sdark]

Thanks, that post was not really aimed at you but rather leo who is being dogmatic about his approach.

I think much of this is about understanding the mind also and if one doesn't then I can understand how delusions may creap in. I on the other hand do understand my mind which is why I think I've been able to preserve many lifetimes of memories. Of course there will always be the question of proof but maybe it's not just about proof maybe just maybe its about truth and faith.
You could also use the word intuition. We often have experiences that might be this or that, but over time we have developed the ability to distinguish between different types of phenomena, even internal ones like dreams, memories, fantasies, hallucinations, etc.

[pharaohmoan]

Just found out there is a theory for an existance pre big-bang it's called Ekpyrotic Theory.