Where was Jesus born?

[blobrana]

Hum,
According to the Gospels, Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
However, archaeological evidence indicates that that Bethlehem in Judea did not exist as a functioning town when Jesus is believed to have been born.
According to a growing number of Bible scholars and archaeologists, the location of the biblical Bethlehem is at a place identified as Bethlehem Hagalilit, near Nazareth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem%2C_Galilee

If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(Tourist trade, politics, or just a Doh! moment?)

[BlueMoose]

Actually, it was Bethlehem...
"Bethlehem — Literally "house of bread", referring to the zodiac house of Virgo the eternal celestial virgin."

http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/mat2.html


"For reasons explained here, I am not sympathetic to the idea that Jesus was a real person. The date of his annual birth can be found in the stars because he was a mythologized sun hero. (See Gospel Zodiac) This page explains the astrological significance of December 25th and the age which marked the year of his original birth. The date of his original birth can be affixed at December 25, 7 BCE.

The clue to the timing of Jesus' first birth has to do with his association with fish. In what astrologers call a Great Year spanning 25920 years; it is divided into twelve Ages according to the constellations of the Zodiac, lasting 2160 years each. Because earth rotates with a wobble called precession, it does not return to the exact point of departure from the previous year. When the sun is at its highest position during the spring equinox, the constellation in its background determines the Age it is in. (For more detail, see Bible Astrology)

Technically, the Age of Jesus began when the sun entered Pisces on the spring equinox. At the beginning of spring for the last two thousand years, the sun appears to be drifting across the stars of Pisces with each passing year. Because this creeping process is so slow, it is not easy to make an exact determination when an Age begins and ends. But the timing of the beginning of the Age of Pisces fits nicely with the Bible's depiction of Jesus being born about 4-6 years before the beginning of the first century."

http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/when_was_jesus_born.htm

-Deception indeed :cool:

[oreodont]

Camden, New Jersey.

[QuestionEverything]

Actually, it was Bethlehem...
"Bethlehem — Literally "house of bread", referring to the zodiac house of Virgo the eternal celestial virgin."

http://home1.gte.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/mat2.html


"For reasons explained here, I am not sympathetic to the idea that Jesus was a real person. The date of his annual birth can be found in the stars because he was a mythologized sun hero. (See Gospel Zodiac) This page explains the astrological significance of December 25th and the age which marked the year of his original birth. The date of his original birth can be affixed at December 25, 7 BCE.

The clue to the timing of Jesus' first birth has to do with his association with fish. In what astrologers call a Great Year spanning 25920 years; it is divided into twelve Ages according to the constellations of the Zodiac, lasting 2160 years each. Because earth rotates with a wobble called precession, it does not return to the exact point of departure from the previous year. When the sun is at its highest position during the spring equinox, the constellation in its background determines the Age it is in. (For more detail, see Bible Astrology)

Technically, the Age of Jesus began when the sun entered Pisces on the spring equinox. At the beginning of spring for the last two thousand years, the sun appears to be drifting across the stars of Pisces with each passing year. Because this creeping process is so slow, it is not easy to make an exact determination when an Age begins and ends. But the timing of the beginning of the Age of Pisces fits nicely with the Bible's depiction of Jesus being born about 4-6 years before the beginning of the first century."

http://www.usbible.com/Astrology/when_was_jesus_born.htm

-Deception indeed :cool:

OWNAGE!!! :yay:

[shichimenshyo]

Imaginarydidntreallyexist ville?

[Orleander]

a barn

[blobrana]

Hum,
ok it seems he was just made up,
but it still doesn't explain why the two towns were mixed up...

[flameofanor5]

Hum,
According to the Gospels, Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
However, archaeological evidence indicates that that Bethlehem in Judea did not exist as a functioning town when Jesus is believed to have been born.
According to a growing number of Bible scholars and archaeologists, the location of the biblical Bethlehem is at a place identified as Bethlehem Hagalilit, near Nazareth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem%2C_Galilee

If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(Tourist trade, politics, or just a Doh! moment?)

....Most people, whether they believe that Jesus was God, a loon, or teacher who lived a very moral life; believe that Jesus at least existed. Whether or not Jesus was God, is something that is still debated everywhere. Also he was born in Bethlehem, whether it's Bethlehem Hagalilit, or just plain Bethlehem, He was still born in a place called Bethlehem.

[QuestionEverything]

....Most people, whether they believe that Jesus was God, a loon, or teacher who lived a very moral life; believe that Jesus at least existed. Whether or not Jesus was God, is something that is still debated everywhere. Also he was born in Bethlehem, whether it's Bethlehem Hagalilit, or just plain Bethlehem, He was still born in a place called Bethlehem.

Who cares what "most people" believe. "Most people" believe George W. Bush is a Christian. Obviously "most people" need to get off there ass and do some research!

[blobrana]

He was still born in a place called Bethlehem.

You miss the point.
The question is why the two towns were swapped up.

[QuestionEverything]

You miss the point.
The question is why the two towns were swapped up.

Are you saying that there were two Bethlehems?

[blobrana]

Er, yes.
i may not have been clear enough with my posts; But look at the links i gave.

[QuestionEverything]

Interesting to when you think of it in the context to this information:

Jesus, the Sun, continues on his way into "Galilee". The word "Galilee" literally means "circuit". The original Greek word is γαλιλαις {gal-il-ah'-yah} (Strong's Greek #1056. Click here to see the verse in Greek), which is a word of Hebrew origin לילג {gaw-lee-law'} (Strong's Hebrew #01551). A "circuit" is a closed, usually circular path. The ecliptic is the circuit the Sun travels along during the year. The ecliptic is a great circle inscribed on the celestial sphere. The ecliptic is also a circle on a planisphere. Jesus, a personification of the Sun, continues on his way along the ecliptic, or "Galilee".

Source here. (http://members.cox.net/deleyd/religion/solarmyth/christ2002.htm)

So we have two cities named Bethlehem which means "sheaf of wheat" from Virgo, then we've got Galilee in the mix named for the Sun's "circuit".

I would wager a guess that either one or both were not Bethlehem in the supposed time of Jesus, and that they later adopted the names out of support for the new Religion. But that's a guess so I can't back that up. Like many other mysteries from antiquity, we'll probably never know.

Since Jesus is nothing more than an astrological allegory though I think the point is kinda moot. It's like referring to Romulus and Remus establishing Rome. Can anyone deny that is a myth? Of course not. But no one worships them so nobody gets their feelings hurt when they do point out that myth.

[blobrana]

The archaeological evidence points to the Galilee locations as being inhabited at the crucial time. It was probably a satellite town of a major Roman urban rebuild (Cesarium), and housed many workers.
The Bethlehem located near Jerusalem seems to have been abandoned. The lack of any artefacts from the period and crucially the construction of an aqueduct through the town indicate that it was abandoned (it seems that aqueducts and water courses were never routed through inhabited towns).

And since there is also evidence of a very early church in Bethlehem Hagalilit it seems that, from a purely evidence based point of view, that was the biblical Bethlehem. I would discount that another settlement(s) remains undiscovered or had a similar name.
So disregarding the astrological allegory, the question remains, why were the two towns swapped?

ie, this is similar to someone saying that the capital of Italy is Turin (it does not matter if batman and Gotham city were based on it).

[blobrana]

IMAGE (http://img182.imageshack.us/img182/7738/bethlehemxw2.jpg) (55kb, 500 x 293)

Latitude: 32.7338889 / Longitude: 35.1886111

See more (http://www.satelliteviews.net/cgi-bin/w.cgi?c=is&UF=-779447&UN=-1117674&DG=PPL)

[pjdude1219]

jesus land

[Nikelodeon]

in a manger.

[blobrana]

The bible says they laid Jesus in a manger (like an egg?).
It implies that he was born in a house.

Link (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a012.html)

The question is where was that house?

[Medicine*Woman]

The bible says they laid Jesus in a manger (like an egg?). It implies that he was born in a house.

Link (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a012.html)

The question is where was that house?
*************
M*W: The "house" is an allegory referring to the "House of Bread," or the Constellation Virgo. Virgo holds in her right hand a sheaf(sp) of wheat and in the other hand ears of corn (i.e. the "House of Bread").

The earthly city named for the Constellation Virgo is Beth-le-hem. Other names associated with the Constellation Virgo are "Bethulah, the Virgin," and "Bethulto, the Virgin." All relating to the Constellation Virgo.

Virgo has always been known to us by her Latin name "The Virgin." The Hebrews called her either "Bethulah," or "Almah," both meaning "The Virgin." Early Arabians called her "Adarah" meaning "pure virgin." She was also known as "Sunbul,"referring to the ear of corn which she carries that emphasizes the "seed" she is carrying.

The Constellation Virgo is known in some ancient cultures as "the barren woman." This alludes to Abraham's wife, Sarah, as well as Joachim's wife Ann, and Elizabeth, Mary's older sister. In Hebrew, the name of the star Spica represents Virgo as "Zerah, the Seed." Sounds pretty close to "Sarah," Abraham's old, barren wife.

The "manger" refers to the zodiac (a circle of animals and people). Jesus was the sun of god and was placed in the center of the zodiac.

It very well may have been that the city of Bethlehem didn't exist during the timeframe of the nativity story, since the myth was created about the story of the Constellation of Virgo. In earlier Egyptian times, Virgo represented Isis holding baby Horus. It's all myth. It doesn't matter if Bethlehem existed during this time or not. The constellations were in the heavens long before ancient humans created the myths that became religions.

*************
M*W's Friendly Atheist Quote (FAQ) of the Day:

"The universe runs itself, and the eternal laws inherent in Nature suffice, without any first cause or prime mover." ~ Marquis de Sade

*************
M*W's Anti-Bitterness Comments (ABCs) of the Day:

"Imagination finds a road to the realm of the gods, and there man can glimpse that which is to be after the soul's liberation from the world of substance." ~ Kahlil Gibran, 1883-1931 Lebanese Poet, Artist and Mystic

[Nikelodeon]

M*W you weren't always atheist were you?

[John99]

The bible says they laid Jesus in a manger (like an egg?).
It implies that he was born in a house.

Link (http://www.christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a012.html)

The question is where was that house?

According to your link it is in the first paragraph. Did you read it?

[blobrana]

According to your link it is in the first paragraph. Did you read it?

LOL
i suspect you do not realise what the thread is about (or perhaps you missed what i had written previously)...

So, yes, we all agree that gospel says Bethlehem.

But, i`ll rephrase the question for you; the question is where was Bethlehem?

[Medicine*Woman]

LOL
i suspect you do not realise what the thread is about (or perhaps you missed what i had written previously)...

So, yes, we all agree that gospel says Bethlehem.

But, i`ll rephrase the question for you; the question is where was Bethlehem?
*************
M*W: In Jesus in the House of the Pharaohs: The Essene Revelations on the Historical Jesus, Ahmed Osman states:

"Naming Bethlehem as the birthplace of Jesus was the result of a desire to demonstrate fulfillment of one of the Old Testament prophecies. There was a strong Jewish tradition that the Christ would be born as a descendant of King David, who was known to have been born at Bethlehem in Judea. Therefore, both Matthew and Luke, who provide accounts of the nativity of Jesus, place his birth in Bethlehem and Matthew (2:5) cites the account in Micah (5:2) in support of his statement. Here again we also find another example of the extent to which the Gospels rely on the Old Testament for their content. The Old Testament does not provide any details of the birth of Jesus: Matthew therefore adapted the Old Testament account of events surrounding the birth of Moses, with Herod instead of Pharaoh ordering the death "of all children from two years old and under."

Bethlehem was just southwest of Jerusalem in what is known as the West Bank north and west of the Dead Sea in Judea in Christ's time.

As I understand it, there were two Bethlehems, but unfortunately I cannot find my map of the Holy Land. I really don't think there was significant difference in the locations, only through the different names/titles of Bethlehem. In any case, Bethlehem translates to the House of Bread (i.e. Virgo). Let me be clear on this... Bethlehem, the House of Bread, is a reference to the Constellation Virgo who has been known by most all cultures as a representative of motherhood. In some ancient cultures, Virgo was also representative of a barren woman such as Sarai, Elizabeth, and Ann, Mary's mother. That's where the myth of the three Marys at the cross came from. Isis as well was an allegory of the Constellation Virgo. It's all myth. Jesus was never born to a woman, only a figurative son of the Constellation Virgo.

[blobrana]

Yes, there were two Bethlehems.
The one next to Jerusalem, according to the archaeology, seems to have been uninhabited. While, the Bethlehem beside Nazareth was flourishing at the time of the biblical Jesus.
i posted an image link to show the location.

[John99]

LOL
i suspect you do not realise what the thread is about (or perhaps you missed what i had written previously)...

So, yes, we all agree that gospel says Bethlehem.

But, i`ll rephrase the question for you; the question is where was Bethlehem?

I thought you said he was born in a house, the link says a barn. Other than that i am not sure what this is about except the title asks where was Jesus born. If i were to play along i would ask which time?

[Flames Deleted]

[blobrana]

@John99
Tnx for your input, but this thread is about/asking if or why people have been deceived about the real location of Bethlehem.

(i would remind others that common net courtesy is usually to read the previous posts and not just wade in ).

[John99]

oh, i see. in that case i have no answer at the present time.

[blobrana]

The "house" is an allegory referring to the "House of Bread," or the Constellation Virgo. Virgo holds in her right hand a sheaf(sp) of wheat and in the other hand ears of corn (i.e. the "House of Bread").

I have pondered what you said.
Yes, the story could be a retelling of much older mythology.
If i were to choose between the many possibilities, i think the Assyrian cultural influence is the earliest recorded. Interestingly, then Virgo was known as Baalita, wife of the God Baal. And who seems to be (mostly negatively) mentioned in the old testament (say, 1000 BC).

[blobrana]

OWNAGE!!! :yay:

Dah,
i don't think BlueMoose realised what i was saying?

i am not going to say (It does not matter) if he was right or wrong, the original question i asked was that according to the Gospels, Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
However, archaeological evidence indicates that that Bethlehem in Judea did not exist as a functioning town when Jesus is believed to have been born.
According to a growing number of Bible scholars and archaeologists, the location of the biblical Bethlehem is at a place identified as Bethlehem Hagalilit, near Nazareth.

Yes, two different places.

[Medicine*Woman]

Dah,
i don't think BlueMoose realised what i was saying?

i am not going to say (It does not matter) if he was right or wrong, the original question i asked was that according to the Gospels, Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
However, archaeological evidence indicates that that Bethlehem in Judea did not exist as a functioning town when Jesus is believed to have been born.
According to a growing number of Bible scholars and archaeologists, the location of the biblical Bethlehem is at a place identified as Bethlehem Hagalilit, near Nazareth.

Yes, two different places.
*************
M*W: It is my understanding that the town of Nazareth did not exist during Jesus's time (assuming he existed at all).

In Christianity: An Ancient Egyptian Religion, Ahmed Osman states:

"The Talmud also contradicts the gospels in some essential points concerning Jesus. For instance, it never mentions that he was a Galilean or came from the cith of Nazareth. Although it refers to him as being a Nazarene, this is a word (Greek, Nazoraios) used to indicate a religious sect, not a geographical location. This meaning is clear from Acts 24:5 where the Jews address Felix, the Roman procurator, accusing Paul of stirring up trouble among the Jews throughout the world and describing him as "a ringleader of the sect of the Nazarenes." In fact, Paul himself always referred to Jesus as "the Nazarene" and never mentions that he came from Nazareth. Yet, elsewhere in Acts, Nazarene is always translated in the English version of the New Testament as "of Nazareth," which is incorrect and has become a cause of misunderstanding among English readers. The Nazarenes were one of a number of secret Judaeo-Christian sects like the Essenes, and the term "Nazarene" is still the designation given to Christians both by Hebrew Jews and by Muslims to this day. The Semitic word is derived from the root nsr, to "which means to "guard" or "protect" and indicates "devotee." The existence of the Nazarene sect is confirmed by both classical and Christian historians."

[Exiled]

[B]"For reasons explained here, I am not sympathetic to the idea that Jesus was a real person. The date of his annual birth can be found in the stars because he was a mythologized sun hero. (See Gospel Zodiac) This page explains the astrological significance of December 25th and the age which marked the year of his original birth. The date of his original birth can be affixed at December 25, 7 BCE.

I’m curious as to how they prove that Jesus was born on Dec 25th?

I don’t have time to read the site enough to find the answer, although, I did find this~

“The favorite rationale for why Jesus' birthday is celebrated on December 25th is that the early Christian fathers chose that date as a way of attracting pagan followers. That's bull. The entire nativity legend can be seen played out in the sky.”


I always thought it was a pagan winter God (for fear of spelling his name wrong, I will not try) born on Dec 25th. As to a play being played out in the sky, very interesting, but fail to see that as an “absolute” proof that Jesus was born on Dec 25th. Maybe I just need to read the site more.

[blobrana]

I’m curious as to how they prove that Jesus was born on Dec 25th?


i think it was A mixture of solstice, Roman religion and Mithraism that fixed the date.

[blobrana]

It is my understanding that the town of Nazareth did not exist during Jesus's time (assuming he existed at all).

No, it seems that the archaeological evidence say that Nazareth and Bethlehem_Galilee, at the time, were growing satellite towns of a major Roman construction project in the nearby Caesarea.

(The Bethlehem just outside Jerusalem was being flattened to make way for a Roman water way, during the same period)

[Leo Volont]

Hum,
According to the Gospels, Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth.
However, archaeological evidence indicates that that Bethlehem in Judea did not exist as a functioning town when Jesus is believed to have been born.
According to a growing number of Bible scholars and archaeologists, the location of the biblical Bethlehem is at a place identified as Bethlehem Hagalilit, near Nazareth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bethlehem%2C_Galilee

If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(Tourist trade, politics, or just a Doh! moment?)

Jesus was born in a cave after Joself could not find any lodgings. Does that sound as though Bethlahem was SUPPOSED to be a functioning town?

Mary had been educated by the Priests to know every word of Prophecy regarding the Messiah. So it was her decision to get her pregnant butt to Bethlehem in order to support the contention that she would be Mother to the Messiah. it wouldn't have mattered whether Bethlehem was great or small at the time. It only mattered that it had been once home to King David and that it had been mentioned in Prophecy.

[Medicine*Woman]

Jesus was born in a case after Joself could not find any lodgings. Does that sound as though Bethlahem was SUPPOSED to be a functioning town?

Mary had been educated by the Priests to know every word of Prophecy regarding the Messiah. So it was her decision to get her pregnant butt to Bethlehem in order to support the contention that she would be Mother to the Messiah. it wouldn't have mattered whether Bethlehem was great or small at the time. It only mattered that it had been once home to King David and that it had been mentioned in Prophecy.
*************
M*W: Mary is the Constellation Virgo. Jesus is the Infant Horus in Mary's arms. Joseph is an Egyptian name for "mayor" or something like that. Jesus, Mary and Joseph existed only in myth.

"Lodgings" refer to houses of the zodiac. J,M,J found "no room in the inn--zodiac," in other words, they were outcasts of the zodiac.

"Bethlehem didn't exist at the time of the alleged Jesus. Nazareth (Nzr) didn't exist either. Your assumption is clearly wrong. You believe that these people existed when they did not.

I follow the truth of the matter. Apparently, you do not. You believe in the reality of the BVM, and I see her as the Constellation Virgo. You have a warped sense of Marian worship when all it is is astro-theology. But you are not alone. Some two billion people believe the same thing that you believe. That's called indoctrination. You believe a myth... simple as that.

[Exiled]

Even if the story of the story of three wise men from the east, the birth from a virgin and the crucifixion on a cross is a Constellation play pre-dating the bible, how does that prove that some man by the name of Jesus didn't walked around that time as a teacher, or wise man?

[Medicine*Woman]

Even if the story of the story of three wise men from the east, the birth from a virgin and the crucifixion on a cross is a Constellation play pre-dating the bible, how does that prove that some man by the name of Jesus didn't walked around that time as a teacher, or wise man?
*************
M*W: I believe you have answered your own question.

[blobrana]

Jesus was born in a case after Joself could not find any lodgings.

I perhaps wasn't too clear about what i meant.

No. Joseph did find lodging, probably with relatives.
(However we cant be sure about the nativity stories as we cant treat them as historical records.)

It only mattered that it had been once home to King David and that it had been mentioned in Prophecy.

Indeed, the birthplace of King David was supposed to be Bethlehem Ephratah, and the prophesy was that a Messiah will come from the House of David.
However, in Mark 6:1 Nazareth is given as Jesus' birthplace and as his "hometown." This is right next to Bethlehem Hagalilit. (see previous map).

The two Bethlehems are separated by about 100 kms.

So it seems that Matthew just swapped locations.

Again - If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(i have my own hunches as to why Matthew would want to reinforce the his claims)

[Exiled]

*************
M*W: I believe you have answered your own question.


Then, beyond the play, the possibility that a man walking around with, perhaps, a life that doesn’t match the biblical story exactly, but yet had influence on the writing of the bible at the time is plausible.

[Leo Volont]

*************
M*W: Mary is the Constellation Virgo. Jesus is the Infant Horus in Mary's arms. Joseph is an Egyptian name for "mayor" or something like that. Jesus, Mary and Joseph existed only in myth.

"Lodgings" refer to houses of the zodiac. J,M,J found "no room in the inn--zodiac," in other words, they were outcasts of the zodiac.

"Bethlehem didn't exist at the time of the alleged Jesus. Nazareth (Nzr) didn't exist either. Your assumption is clearly wrong. You believe that these people existed when they did not.

I follow the truth of the matter. Apparently, you do not. You believe in the reality of the BVM, and I see her as the Constellation Virgo. You have a warped sense of Marian worship when all it is is astro-theology. But you are not alone. Some two billion people believe the same thing that you believe. That's called indoctrination. You believe a myth... simple as that.

So it is the Obvious Truth of Astrology versus the all the dubious documentation concerning the hundreds of Miraculous Marian Saints that have come down to us from History, as well as the great many Marian Apparitions, also widely reported, if we can believe it.

But why is it that Marianism takes a back seat to Astrology of all things?

When has Astrology ever been right about anything?

Besides, wouldn't this absolute Faith in the stars lead us into just another blind form of Determinism, with all Human Will helpless before the All Powerful Influence of the Fermaments?

Oh, yeah, but then there's the part about Gypsy Readers (not unlike yourself) making more money if people were to stop laughing at it.

[Leo Volont]

I perhaps wasn't too clear about what i meant.

No. Joseph did find lodging, probably with relatives.
(However we cant be sure about the nativity stories as we cant treat them as historical records.)



Indeed, the birthplace of King David was supposed to be Bethlehem Ephratah, and the prophesy was that a Messiah will come from the House of David.
However, in Mark 6:1 Nazareth is given as Jesus' birthplace and as his "hometown." This is right next to Bethlehem Hagalilit. (see previous map).

The two Bethlehems are separated by about 100 kms.

So it seems that Matthew just swapped locations.

Again - If we assume this is correct - why this deception?

(i have my own hunches as to why Matthew would want to reinforce the his claims)

Go to Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary stayed in a cave.

Incidentally, Anne Catherine Emmerich, Catholicism's foremost seer and visionary from a few Centuries back, told all about the Cave when it was still the widespread belief that they had stayed in a Stable. She had even drawn diagrams which match the Shrines now in Bethlehem.

it is odd about Science. They demand proof from everyone else, but for themselves they think it is enough to present probabilities. They probably did this, and that probably happened. If only Religious People were so much exempted from having to prove anything.

But think about how probabilities work. Sweeping generalizations and averaging down. History to the Statistician would be a mix of uniformally grey paint -- no conflicts, no oppositions, nobody standing out. Just everybody probably doing the same thing as everybody else.

Mary was probably an ordinary girl and Jesus an ordinary baby. Who can argue with that?

[blobrana]

Go to Bethlehem. Joseph and Mary stayed in a cave.

Cool, but perhaps you should go to the first post?

If people can`t be bothered to read or understand what i have written, or sussed out what this thread is about, then i really don't see why i should bother posting to this section. I am not a teacher - i have pointed out a tremendously important possibility that you and many others have rudely not addressed or simply ignored.
If you want to hijack the thread to discuss if Joseph and Mary stayed in a cave or house, or if they existed or not , or their astrological signs then fine. It makes no difference to me, but, count me out.

[Exiled]

I think Jesus was born on a hay patch, and then placed into a wooden type crib. But this is just my opinion.

[blobrana]

\o/,
classic.

Added to ignore list.

[John99]

Perhaps we dont know what your asking for because it is hard to know exactly where a person was born over 2,000 years ago.

[blobrana]

Yes ,
perhaps.
But in this case we have archaeology which gives a very good indication that Bethlehem Ephratah didn't exist at the time; therefore it couldn't be the birthplace of Jesus.

So again for others, i am not saying anything about the validity of the nativity story, or how this revelation will affect Christians or Muslims, or if it is even important to their faiths.
All that i am asking is if we accept the Gospels, and that Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth, (ie assume this is correct); and accept that the archaeological evidence that Bethlehem Ephratah did not exist then .... But another Bethlehem, further north, beside Nazareth, however did exist.... then why is it that Bethlehem Ephratah today is seen to be the birthplace of Jesus.

It`s a simple question.
Why were the two towns were swapped?
Why the deception?

[Medicine*Woman]

Go to Bethlehem Joeph and Mary stayed in a cave.
*************
M*W: That is the allegory.

You mention Anne Catherine Emmerich, Catholicism's foremost seer and visionary from a few Centuries back, told all about the Cave when it was still the widespread belief that they had stayed in a Stable. She had even drawn diagrams which match the Shrines now in Bethlehem.
************
M*W: You mention your seer, but she is not a professor of truth.

it is odd about Science. They demand proof from everyone else, but for themselves they think it is enough to present probabilities. They probably did this, and that probably happened. If only Religious People were so much exempted from having to prove anything.

But think about how probabilities work. weeping generalizations and averaging down. History to the Statistician would be a mix of uniformally grey paint -- no conflicts, no oppositions, nobody standing out. Just everybody probably doing the same thing as everybody else.

Mary was probably an ordinary girl and Jesus an ordinary baby. Who can argue with that?[/QUOTE]

*************
M*W: You are binding the truth. There is no truth to begin with. I think you are delusional.

[Medicine*Woman]

Yes ,
perhaps. But in this case we have archaeology which gives a very good indication that Bethlehem Ephratah didn't exist at the time; therefore it couldn't be the birthplace of Jesus.

So again for others, i am not saying anything about the validity of the nativity story, or how this revelation will affect Christians or Muslims, or if it is even important to their faiths.
All that i am asking is if we accept the Gospels, and that Bethlehem is the birthplace of Jesus of Nazareth,(ie assume this is correct); and accept that the archaeological evidence that Bethlehem Ephratah did not exist then .... But another Bethlehem, further north,beside Nazareth, however did exist.... then why is it that Bethlehem Ephratah today is seen to be the birthplace of Jesus.

It`s a simple question.
Why were the two towns were swapped?
Why the deception?
*************
M*W: The answer is easy. Jesus didn't exist so his birthplace didn't exost.

[Hapsburg]

According to lore, Bethlehem.

However, evidence points to Bethlehem not being a town in its own right, as the OP puts it. Most likely, the "town" of Bethlehem was a hamlet or group of cottages with a small administrative building. Bethlehem would probably been, with several other cottages and hamlets, part of a Roman-equivalent to a metropolitan area, and dependent on the larger area for commerce and economic survival.

The place he was born in was most likely a small cave, where animals were kept during the spring, which the gospels erroneously translate as a "manger". Considering said hamlet's meagre resources, and inability to have proper Roman facilities such as real barns or inns, the "inn" referred to in the gospels was most likely as flat field where people could bed down at for the night.

[blobrana]

"Experts have restored a 1,400-year-old glass mosaic glowing in gold, recovered from a site next to the Sea of Galilee, the Israel Antiquities Authority announced Monday."

Read more (http://www.brantfordexpositor.ca/ArticleDisplay.aspx?e=885209)

[onlinerotter1]

i do really asking my self why peaple wann know if jesus was exist, was real, was not, wich year and and and.......
i do not say that people doasnt have to belive what they think its right for them individuality to believe. thats they right and possible thats good. but what will happen if that what they belive was wrong???????
will they stop to belive or will we live in a global panic.....and than what?

[blobrana]

i take your point,
but, it was pointed out before it doesn't matter if batman or Joshua exists or not; nor is it important or relevant about how this `discovery` affects Christian or Muslim belief.