Conflict Resolution 101 - Skinwalker and LG

[lightgigantic]

gustav: i like to see a reconciliation of sorts

good call chum!

Okay so I am not sure what mood this thread will take (it does seem that the word association and Star Trek vs Star Wars threads are the only one's that don't tangle with violent contention :scratchin:) ... but here goes

Issues have come to hand, both recently (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?p=1696427&posted=1#post1696427)and also a few months back (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=71163&page=4) that seem to indicate a few unresolved conflict issues have been brewing.
Some of them have reached a resolution of sorts (http://www.sciforums.com/showthread.php?t=75611).



Three Important things to remember for this thread

1) - This is an invitation for submissions on how to resolve conflict issues.

2) - It is not an invitation to discuss the legitimacy of the existing values each party holds

eg

"LG is deluded since all religions are delusional and he is therefore irrational - if he wants to improve he should be rational - where is the scientific evidence for his claims?"

"Skinwalker is deluded since he thinks empiricism is a standard capable of discerning absolute values in reality and he is therefore irrational - if he wants to improve he should be rational - where is the philosophical reasoning for his claims?


3) - It is an opportunity to examine how we practically deal with each other, both as mods and posters, and how it can be improved.



While I have thrown both myself and Skinwalker in the test tube for this thread, I think it has a wider application to mod/poster issues. Topics that could be approached are things like


what are the professional standards of moderation and what constitutes a transgression?
what are the reasonable standards for posting and what constitutes a transgression?
what, where and how is warranted feedback delivered mutually between both parties?


So in the name of keeping the OP as neutral as possible, I'll leave it here and see if there is any consensus within the conundrum .....


http://images.jupiterimages.com/common/detail/43/14/23211443.jpg

[spidergoat]

I would quote this:

Moderation may include editing, moving, and deletion of posts or threads. Whilst moderation takes place according to these guidelines, posts and threads are treated on a case-by-case basis, in an effort to create a balance between competing points of view and to treat all posters fairly, given all the circumstances. However, in posting here you accept that the Moderators have the final say, and can moderate your posts for any reason they think fit. No arguments will be entered into regarding moderation.


That seems rather final.

[lightgigantic]

the problem with that is it doesn't address misuse of moderation powers

IOW if we want to accept that as the be all and end all of the issue, it is also an invitation to have posters kick up a stink

No amount of banning, post deletion or forum axing will solve it

The problem will simply be a regular part of the sciforums furniture

[SkinWalker]

I have a suggestion for the resolution: LG can get with the program.

I've changed nothing with regard to my moderation style since the day I started as moderator. I see no reason to change anything. Nor do I see that there has been any unfair moderation of LG or other members by myself that hasn't already been resolved or addressed.

Nor has LG identified or specified what precisely is his grievance. Should he cite a valid grievance, then we might have something to resolve. Barring that, I'm planning on continuing my moderation in the same manner I have been, and LG can take a flying leap or get with the program. Once he stops trolling in that forum, it'll be better for all concerned.

[Avatar]

"No man, no problem." Stalin
/grins

[lightgigantic]

I have a suggestion for the resolution: LG can get with the program.

I've changed nothing with regard to my moderation style since the day I started as moderator. I see no reason to change anything. Nor do I see that there has been any unfair moderation of LG or other members by myself that hasn't already been resolved or addressed.

Nor has LG identified or specified what precisely is his grievance. Should he cite a valid grievance, then we might have something to resolve. Barring that, I'm planning on continuing my moderation in the same manner I have been, and LG can take a flying leap or get with the program. Once he stops trolling in that forum, it'll be better for all concerned.
this is not conflict resolution
it is conflict maintenance

:(

[lightgigantic]

"No man, no problem." Stalin
/grins
also "no discussion" and "no input" too

[SkinWalker]

You don't seek resolution. You seek the last word. You're ego hasn't any room for resolution. Nor have you specified what, precisely, you have a grievance with.

[lightgigantic]

You don't seek resolution. You seek the last word. You're ego hasn't any room for resolution.
I'm seeking to change that
If you think the only solution lies in falling in to line with your values, there is no room for resolution.

Nor have you specified what, precisely, you have a grievance with.
You don't sense that we are experiencing a certain terseness in our dealings?

[SkinWalker]

What, precisely, is your grievance? You alleged "misuse of moderation powers," yet cite nothing.

[lightgigantic]

What, precisely, is your grievance? You alleged "misuse of moderation powers," yet cite nothing.
a misuse of moderation powers could be one or a combination of these things

mods over-riding the general forum guidelines (eg trolling, flaming etc)
misuse of mod powers (like say post deletion, thread closing or issuing infractions) in a way that is conducive to their values or far from impartial
participating in threads where they call upon their authority (ie issuing of infractions) instead of discussional topics to make their point


Perhaps you could offer a general outline of how you resolve issues of your personal values when they collide with forum topics in your capacity as a moderator.

[Avatar]

Still no citations. Care for a proof?
I don't participate in the relig forum, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

[lightgigantic]

Still no citations. Care for a proof?
I don't participate in the relig forum, so I have no idea what you're talking about.

If you are after immediate citations just visit the mod bias thread (and join in the values bashing)

Rather than jumping head first into a muck slinging contest, it could be more conducive to proceed one step at a time by asserting one's personal needs (an important step for conflict resolution).

I just indicated what behavior from mods infringe on my personal needs, and asked what methods/reasoning does skinwalker take to insure my needs (as a poster) are met.

For instance if skinwalker doesn't agree that these are valid personal needs for me to hold, moving into discussion of citations will be pointless (but perhaps a lot of fun if you are simply out to see a bit of raging accusations go flying across the forum).:eek:

[Gustav]

i'll help out, LG
i have seen decent reasoning in your poll thread vs the illogic of Skinwalker.
it cannot be too much of a stretch to imagine a similar situ in an actual argument b/t the two of you. i could also relate on a personal level but am not too keen in sifting thru threads that go back years.

that said, if sloppy, tighten up your shit. disingenuity is my pet peeve. it should be treated in the harshest possible manner. fess up, apologize or fuck off

[Gustav]

while i have never ever read anything of lg's shit, well, perhaps maybe skimmed and forgotten, i've jumped on sci's bandwagon and slung shit (nitpicking on logic i think) at him. the fucker has been strangely good natured about it. perhaps he knows i merely pay lip service to the bashing

lg perseveres. he tries. this time with an olive branch. one for the books i think. skin however sneers disdainfully, growing even more combative. it is really very very juvenile, this behavior of his. ludicrous too. i am at a loss why this pigheadedness, seemingly is his only course of action

ah
stryder mentioned ..."escalation of committment." perhaps. maybe

[SkinWalker]

Well then. How 'bout that?

If Gustav says it, it's good enough for me. LG, you're good people.
My hatchet is buried.

[Gustav]

if there is ever a time a thread requres the Site Admin present, this is the one.
mods need to take a fucking hike. it is only Plazma's input that could be of any real value.

so
come on out, Plazma, let your conscience guide your words and all will be ok. you will be treated with respect and dignity.

[Gustav]

i say!
what what?

/dumbfounded

[Killjoy]

`
I don't think you found it that way, I think you worked reeeaaallly hard at it until it "mysteriously transmogrified".

:wave:

[Gustav]

/chuckle

or sumthn

[greenberg]

3) - It is an opportunity to examine how we practically deal with each other, both as mods and posters, and how it can be improved.


As far as I can see, it comes with the moderator position that

1. The member is supposed to believe the moderator, but the moderator has the right not to believe the member.
2. The member is supposed to respect the moderator, but the moderator has the right not to respect the member.


How this can be improved? I do not think it can. I do not think a person can really believe or respect someone who has the power to carry out actions that will be harmful from the perspective of the person.

In order for communication to be open, meaningful and to the satisfaction of both, the parties need to be equal.
A moderator and a member are, by definition, not equal parties.

[Gustav]

lemme show you how
i shall shatter the stone tablet that contains the relevant biblical text and jigsaw its ass back differently

[lightgigantic]

As far as I can see, it comes with the moderator position that

1. The member is supposed to believe the moderator, but the moderator has the right not to believe the member.
2. The member is supposed to respect the moderator, but the moderator has the right not to respect the member.


How this can be improved? I do not think it can. I do not think a person can really believe or respect someone who has the power to carry out actions that will be harmful from the perspective of the person.

In order for communication to be open, meaningful and to the satisfaction of both, the parties need to be equal.
A moderator and a member are, by definition, not equal parties.

I would disagree
for instance there is one part of a joke about cultural issues of europe that says ....

In heaven, the policeman is an englishman
In hell, the policeman is a german

(it also continues to say that in heaven, the cook is french, and in hell the cook is an englishman, and furthermore, in heaven, the car mechanic is a german and in hell the car mechanic is french ..... just to be fair )

my point is of course that respect can be due to persons regardless whether they have powers/capacities that are relatively inferior and superior to oneself

Just because a person has the position to deal out punitive measures does not mean that they are all much of a muchness or incapable of being respected.

[greenberg]

I do not really respect bosses, judges or police officers or anyone who is in the position of authority over me.

I will give them the official respect, so that I don't earn any additional reprimands - but that's it.

There is an unbridgeable gap between me and the person who has authority over me.

[lightgigantic]

What scope does such an attitude have to happiness?

If distress is the natural consequence of authority, how would it be possible to bring all existing authority structures down to your level?

[greenberg]

Distress it is inherent in worldly existence. Some distress can be helped, some cannot.

Why should all existing authority structures be brought down to my level?
How much do they really care about my happiness? Do they care more about my happiness than they care about their own happiness? I don't think so, and I don't blame them.

[lightgigantic]

Distress it is inherent in worldly existence. Some distress can be helped, some cannot.
true - but if you view distress as an inherent quality of authority no solutions appear forthcoming

Why should all existing authority structures be brought down to my level?
if one can only truly be happy in the absence of authority, its a tenable option

How much do they really care about my happiness? Do they care more about my happiness than they care about their own happiness? I don't think so, and I don't blame them.
hence taking positive action would be to bring all authorities down to one's own level .... or alternatively, seize power and rise above them
:eek:

[Gustav]

I would quote this:

Moderation may include editing, moving, .................... seems rather final.

if spider feels up to it........evaluate logic and actual application then justify conclusion. flesh out assumptions if any

[mountainhare]

Skinwalker:

Originally Posted by SkinWalker
You don't seek resolution. You seek the last word. You're ego hasn't any room for resolution.


*sigh*

greenberg:

As far as I can see, it comes with the moderator position that

1. The member is supposed to believe the moderator, but the moderator has the right not to believe the member.
2. The member is supposed to respect the moderator, but the moderator has the right not to respect the member.


How this can be improved? I do not think it can. I do not think a person can really believe or respect someone who has the power to carry out actions that will be harmful from the perspective of the person.

In order for communication to be open, meaningful and to the satisfaction of both, the parties need to be equal.
A moderator and a member are, by definition, not equal parties.


I couldn't have said it better myself. When the mods deal with members as comrades instead of petulant children, then the atmosphere of the board will improve.

[Gustav]

spider?

[Gustav]

I couldn't have said it better myself. When the mods deal with members as comrades instead of petulant children, then the atmosphere of the board will improve.

why do you do this? that is a goddamn bogus reading. green said nothing of the sort.

comrades, my fucking ass
my mods get it right most of the time
you noobs, mods and regs, are the ones prone to error

[lightgigantic]

I guess it's not working out

:shrug:

Maybe I will call back in every twelve months or so to see if skinwalker has been either biologically or electronically shifted to a different type of service

/exits

[shichimenshyo]

Yay for yet another bitch about the "unfair mods" thread.