http://youtube.com/watch?v=IAWKPuBpPkI This is a video clip from the eve of invasion of Iraq. I find it extremely upsetting. As an Iraq war veteran, I spent a year in Iraq and have seen what has happened to the country. The damage that we did will take Iraq decades to recover from. We've destroyed hundreds of thousands of innocent lives and you people wonder why they hate us. Men, women and children, all who had normal lives, normal jobs, normal childhoods, have been slaughtered by our ignorance and the ignorance of our "leaders". What we have done to that country can never be undone. The innocent lives of those that were murdered can never have the opprotunity to enjoy that which is life. So many children cannot play in the streets, instead they rest in the rubble from the remains of explosions. So many mothers and fathers cannot hold thier child because their children are dead. And so many children ophaned because of our hatred and greed. So many families ripped apart by fire and metal, ripped apart by ignorance and lies. And yet so many of you still blame them for killing our soldiers. What would you do if another country invaded yours, took over your land and slaughtered your family for any reason? Would you not stand up in defense? And would that not be concidered the right thing to do? Then why would it be OK for us but not anyone else? When people were shooting at me, I did not feel vengence or hatred. I felt forgiveness because I knew that they did not understand who I am or how I feel. They see me as just another greedy American there to turn thier lives upside down. I was well respected by many of the Iraqi citizens that I encountered because it was with those that I had the opprotunity to share how I feel and offer whatever apology I could. I made it my personal goal to let them know that not all Americans hate them. To let them know that when it seems like no one cares, I do. But as comforting as it was for them, we knew that no apology can make up for lives lost. I once met a man named Kalif who had 6 children and a wife. He and I had the opprotunity to sit down and eat together. He offered some food and we talked there on the hot desert sand. He was once a Physicist, working at Baghdad University. But due to the war, his life was permanately changed. All six of his children and wife died from a bomb that dropped infront of thier home. His children were asleep and his wife was listening to the radio in the living room, crying. He was in his kitchen. The explosion went off and his wife was thrown from the blast into the kitchen where she landed next to where he layed. He reached from his pocket and handed me a picture of him, his wife and children and then began crying as he continued his story. He looked over to see the body of his wife covered in dust, missing both of her arms and head. He then went upstairs to his childrens room only to discover that the wall facing the street had completely disappeared and all six of his children had been hit by shrapnel and were killed instantly. He stayed with his dead children the whole night until daybreak where he then went to a friends house. I expressed to him my sorrow and held his hand as we cried together. That day that we talked, he was no longer a physicist. Due to the poor economy and lack of employment, he was forced to become a janitor. Two weeks after we had talked, I discovered from his brother that he was killed when an explosion went off at the mosque that he attended frequently. I still think of him to this day and wish that maybe one day we may be able to sit down together and talk again. And this is just one example from the many I have acquired in my experience. I've met a wide variety of Iraqi's and I will always remember each and everyone of thier faces because every single one had an impact in my life and my judgements on this forsaken war.
That clip is from Michael Moore's Movie fahrenhiet 9/11, It represents what life in any middle eastern country would look like. Yes, It's much worse. Iraq is now in a state such as Palestine, but even worse. Not even the basic services have been established. I agree with your thoughts, The same goes for Palestine, If Israeli troops invade your home, and kill your wife and children, you'd be pissed too.
And if Israel citizens are murdered by terrorists that set off IED's in market places killing their people they too will be avengeed. Time to stop the killing on both sides isn't it?:shrug:
If it upsets you, why watch it? You talk about the damage the "we" did, yet you've never said a word about the damage that Saddam was doing. Why? You also haven't said a word about the damage that the Iraqis themselves are doing to their own country and people. Why not? You also didn't say a word about the damage that al-Quida is doing. Why? Is it because you have an anti-American hatred going for yourself? Baron Max
They didn't seem to realize that we weren't just going to depose their leader, but destroy their country, bomb those "basic services", and leave them to chaos and looting. If it ever gets better, which I hope it does, it will still be a horrendous tragedy as a result of the Bush administration's (intentional?) incompetence.
Yep, same things happened in Germany and Italy and Japan in World War II. But look at those nations now ...pretty good, huh? Baron Max
First of all, I don't hate my country. How could I possibly hate my country when I was willing to put my life on the line for it. So please, don't feed me any of this anti-American bullshit until you pick up a rifle and go over there for a year. Secondly, yes, Saddam needed to be taken out. But we did not have to ruin a whole country to do so. There are other methods available. And its not the video that upsets me, its comparing Iraqi life before the war to Iraqi life today and how our actions have destroyed thier lifestyle. Yes, I had faith that our government was smart enough to handle the situation the correct way.
Course it does. Germany nor Italy did anythig to the USA, nor were they a direct threat to the USA. And yet we invaded their nations and blew up most of the countryside, and killed thousands of citizens. Same-o, same-o, Spider, but you just don't like to make the comparison, 'cause it don't work out in your favor. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Baron Max
Saddam thumbed his nose at the UN, there were umpty-eleven UN resolutions against him, there were numerous nations who thought he was a jerk, but no one did anything about it. We did! And rightly so. As to me picking up a rifle and going over there, I tried, but the Army wouldn't take 64 year old men. But I did serve my time in an earlier era. Baron Max
A full scale force bed-down invasion of a country to take out one man and his sons. I little over kill don't ya think?
If I'm reading your question correctly, they .....No. What you're failing to grasp is that Saddam had a large army protecting him and his sons. Or would you have sent in Rambo and Chuck Norris to do the job? Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! And what of the task of removing Hitler in World War II? Should we have done that simple little job with Rambo and Chuck, too? Baron Max
His army was not his. I mean that because out of EVERY single Iraq soldier that served under Saddam that I came into contact with had surrendered upon the invasion. The majority of his own people despised him and only "supported" him because they knew that if they didn't, they would pay the ultimate price, death. And the few that did stay by him, are now labeled as "terrorists" and more likely than not are dead by now. I knew a man who was one of Saddams closest personal advisors and top generals. When the invasion kicked off, he took his family and fled from Baghdad. When ground troops arrived, he and his family turned themselves in and explained thier situation. The US government interrogated them, and then set them free. You gotta understand that this war did not start off as two armies fighting eachother. 87% of Saddams troops went AWOL within the first 2 days of the invasion, abandoning thier leader. And who we are fighting today has little, if nothing, to do with Saddams regime. Today we are fighting a rather large group of pissed off people, the majority of them pissed off just because we are there. Many of them are not acting out of religious convictions, but rather out of defense of thier families. How many people do you think would stand up if someone invaded America? ALOT. And ones religious background or political stance will have little to do with it because we would stand up to maintain what we call our freedoms. And that is what most of these "terrorists" are doing. And WWII is incomparable to the Iraq war. Hitler had FAR more troops than Iraq ever did, and was spread out over a far greater area. Not only that, but the two wars were fought in a completely different manner. In WWII we were fighting armies of people, whereas now we are fighting small unorganized pockets of simply pissed off people with no government ties. Take a look at the majority of the people that we are able to capture and interrogate. They have no politcal affiliation, no leaders, do not belong to any groups, yet chose to attack us because they simply do not want us there in their country. And many of this people are pissed because it was from our bombs that many of thier family members were unmercifully murdered. Furthermore, I understand that it is difficult to understand what you are reading from my words. What the majority of American's hear is word of mouth via the media. One can not fully understand the situtation over there until one see's it for themself. I often wonder how the media and even our leaders in the White House can misconstrue the situation so much with what it really is. We have labeled people as "terrorists" when all they really are is people that are simply upset with our presence. We are led to believe that we are fighting some gigantic organization that is hiding out somewhere, sending people here and there to attack us. Please! Give me a break! So I guess that if someone invaded America, whoever stood up in defense or anger would be called a terrorist?
Well, that didn't help all the people that Saddam had tortured and killed, did it? And just for my own curiosity, how many former Iraqi soldiers did you really know personally? Well, if we believe the polls taken around the world, if some nation invaded expressly to take out President Bush, very few people would stand in his defense. And oddly, they don't seem aware that if they all stopped fighting, stopped blowing up people, the troops would leave. It's the Iraqis who are fighting and killing othr Iraqis that gives the USA it's very reason to stay to protect the other Iraqis. Don't your great and wonderful Iraqi buddies know that? Oh, really? Then explain to us why so many Iraqis are murdering other Iraqis? Is that a new tactic to rid ones nation of invaders ...to keep killing ones own countrymen until the invaders get sick of it and leave? Seems to me that you ain't doin' so hot yourself in understanding it all. Baron Max
Agree'd. Over the course of the year I was there, atleast anywhere between 300-500. For six months of that year, part of my job was guarding them while on base as LN contractors. Because of that, I was lucky enough to have the time to sit down with many of them. Overall, I supervised over 125k Iraqi's while I was there. Agree'd again. BUT if you were to take a poll about how many would want a full scale force bed down invasion of the US or would rather take a more direct appraoch such as a tactical assassination, I am sure most would choose the 2nd in respect to human life. Many of those Iraqi against Iraqi situations are based in religious affiliation, thus based in thier stance on our presence. As you know different religious groups have different opinions on our being there. Some support us, others don't. That simple. Read above. Are you serious??? You have never been there, thus have NO direct knowledge of the situation and yet you will tell me, who spent a year there, that I don't know what I am talking about???? Quite frankly, your respect for my position and experience is sickening.
So you think that spending a year in Iraq as a US soldier now makes you an expert in international politics and international diplomacy and an expert in socio-economics? I was a soldier once, so I'm not totally ignorant of what it means and how closely soldiers interact with local populations. Personally, from what I've read, I just think you've bought into the anti-war, anti-America propaganda and now you're trying to foist it onto others using your year in Iraq as added leverage. Baron Max
No, I am no expert, but I do share one main advantage over 99% of the country, including those in the White House and Pentagon, and that is the fact that I have first hand direct experience of the situation. Look around at the majority of vet's like myself that are coming home saying that this war is pointless and should have never been started. The VAST majority are, including high ranking officers. Tell me, who do you trust? The guy on the the ground or word of mouth that has been passed down through hundreds if not thousands of people before it ever reaches your ears? I'm sorry, but my patriotism is not blind. As much as I love America, I know when something is right and when its not, and I am not afraid to speak out when I know something isn't right. And fact is that that our leaders have royally fucked this war up. Our tactics are obsurdly fragile and ineffective. Aside from certain projects such as schools, water treatment plants and increase in jobs, Iraq is exactly where it was 4 years ago at the beginning of this war, if not worse. And its not just about us, its about the Iraqi people as well. Do you have ANY idea how many Iraqi's die each month? Iraqi Security Forces and Civilian Deaths Details Period Total Nov-07 493 Oct-07 679 Sep-07 848 Aug-07 1,674 Jul-07 1,690 Jun-07 1,345 May-07 1,980 Apr-07 1,821 Mar-07 2,977 Feb-07 3,014 Jan-07 1,802 Dec-06 1,752 Nov-06 1,864 Oct-06 1,539 Sep-06 3,539 Aug-06 2,966 Jul-06 1,280 Jun-06 870 May-06 1,119 Apr-06 1,009 Mar-06 1,092 Feb-06 846 Jan-06 779 If we were invaded and we lost that many people in that short of time, do you know what that would do to our country? It would turn a majority of us in to street fighters. Anyone who could carry a gun, would. And people wonder why the attacks have only worsened over the past 4 years. Not even Saddam killed that many people in that short of time, aside from the Kurds back in the early 90's. Furthermore, though our death toll is coming up toward 4000, our casualty rate is almost 40,000! Even more than I love my country, I love life. And how someone can sit back, support this war, and thus support the constant murder of tens of thousands of Iraqi's as well as thousands of our troops is beyond me. People act like there is a goal to attain in this war. There is none! In the year that I was there, our goal was to stay alive and do what we could to keep people from shooting at us.
