Still at the beginning

Discussion in 'Astronomy, Exobiology, & Cosmology' started by Cyperium, Nov 17, 2007.

  1. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    If everything is still the same point as in the beginning, then non-locality is logical.

    If every point in space is just seperated by space, not seperated in any other sense, then in it's own reality which is the one that matters in physics, the location doesn't matter.

    Location would thus only matter for information, which wouldn't be needed if everything was at the same place.

    That information takes time to go from one place to another is only meaningful in the macroscopic perspective dealing with the relationship between objects that time and space has seperated in the perspective of time and space, and not in the perspective of the objects themselves.
     
  2. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  3. Vega Banned Banned

    Messages:
    1,392
    you sound a bit spaced out!!!
     
  4. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  5. cosmictraveler Be kind to yourself always. Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    33,264
    But its not!

    Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!

     
  6. Google AdSense Guest Advertisement



    to hide all adverts.
  7. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    If you wish, you can say that big bang is still happening, and it wasn't a singular event in some distant past... if you like.
     
  8. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    The contents of our universe is far from stationary as local gravities changes it's shape over time, and other large objects beyond a pull of gravity which just drift about, so to speak.
     
  9. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Vega. I find your icon a little strange. I know it is spherical and has dots all around it but every part second it has two dots facing me and at that point starts to resemble a face with two eyes before spinning again and another "two eyes" coming up.
     
  10. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    Perhaps it is, in the perspective of the photon. As you might now, in the perspective of the photon, it has allready been everywhere in the universe.

    Also, there are no unique electrons, every electron is the same one (or so I've heard).
     
  11. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    It was a singular event in the past.

    We can almost see it from here. If we could possibly see it from here, then that must mean that since the Big Bang was everything in the beginning, then we are still there, we can never see beyond the universe or see the edge expand, but only the possible light or consequences of the Big Bang as it was then. So if we can see the Big Bang or at least close to Big Bang when the universe was smaller than it is now, then it must mean that this is just a extention of that event, that we were revealed, or unveiled if you want.

    Everything is everything.
     
  12. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    That is if the big bang happened which is in doubt with all the problem it has brought up requiring ever less likely fudges. I would not say with a 100% certainty that the universe only has a set mass.

    Photons can travel long distances in space from distant galaxies but also short distance on planets, being absorbed by electrons and re-emitted. How can every electron be the same one? Even helium has four electrons, 2 in the nucleus.
     
  13. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    Identity of Particles and Continuum Hypothesis

    ``Why all electrons are the same? Unlike other objects, particles and atoms (same isotopes) are forbidden to have individuality or personal history (or reveal their hidden variables, even if they do have them). Or at least, what we commonly call physics so far was unable to disprove particle's sameness (Berezin and Nakhmanson, Physics Essays, 1990). ยดยด

    Here you go also on the electrons sameness

    Interesting?


    Photon Being Everywhere at Once

    The link above should answer (to which degree you want to dig) why the photon is everywhere at once.
     
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2007
  14. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334

    I don't believe in time dilation so can't accept that about photons being everywhere. That only happens if they move at infinite speed. Photons do change in that they can be blue or red shifted. The double slit experiment also suggests that they can come in different sizes. There is also the point that while they may always move at light speed, they do not always move at 186,282 mps as even glass can half their speed. If time dilation existed, things would surely change as they slowed down.

    Your statement on electrons is a little ambiguous. I accept that all electrons are identical but not the same one.
     
  15. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    If all the electrons are exactly the same, then where is the distinction to be made? In the space seperating them?
     
  16. saudade Unfiltered perspective... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    113
    Why is that exactly?
     
  17. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    Time dilation is a prediction of general relativity, devised by Einstein in about 1927. It describes how time becomes to move slower around spaces that are gravitationally warped: Like a black hole. Theoretically, you sit around a black hole, let the warping effects distort the space around you and make time go slower for your frame of reference. Time dilation can also occur in relativity for someone moving at very fast speeds.
     
  18. saudade Unfiltered perspective... Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    113
    I KNOW what time dilation is... *roll* I was asking Kaneda why he/she doesn't believe it...
     
  19. Reiku Banned Banned

    Messages:
    11,238
    Oh sorry.
     
  20. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    saudade. I'm a he. It requires believing that time is a dimension. However while we can apparently slow down time, we cannot speed it up by reversing the effects which apparently slow it down. I think TD is a collection of effects put under the one headline.

    1: On a heavier gravity world than Earth, is something undergoing time dilation or is it just heavier gravity slowing down everything on an atomic scale?

    2: Photons travel through space. They have maybe a trillion interactions of one kind or another over a billion light years. Are photons magic so do not change in any way because of this?

    3: You take an atomic clock to the airport. Put it in a jet plane, rush down the runway at upto 200 mph and lift off. You reach several hundred miles an hour at several miles altitude and fly around for a few hours then reverse the lot to get back home again. You measure it against an atomic clock which has been sitting on a mantlepiece all this time and they have different times. Duh!
     
  21. Cyperium I'm always me Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    3,058
    Not duh if the atomic clock have changed in a rate according to the calculations. Not something you should miss and I do think that the calculations and the time match. (which shows that it doesn't just accidently change because of bumps and lift-off etc., as these are random and probably not in many ways compatible with the equation for time dilation)

    In comparison we can take the satellites - same equation, bumpier ride, same results = not the bumpier ride.

    We should take into account also that these equations are part of a bigger theory. Perhaps there are phenomena that are so similiar that you can use the same equation at the same moment with different theories. But then you have to explain it better than with a bumpy ride!
     
  22. superluminal I am MalcomR Valued Senior Member

    Messages:
    10,876
    What about all of the experiments that prove it to actually occurr? Like the extension of the lifetime of atmospheric muons and that of other known particles in large accelerators?
     
  23. kaneda Actual Cynic Registered Senior Member

    Messages:
    1,334
    Cyperium. Acceleration/decelleration/motion can affect an atomic clock. See how one works :

    http://science.howstuffworks.com/atomic-clock3.htm

    and tell me it cannot. It can work by simple rules, producing a smaller count rate, so less seconds counted, so a slow down in "time".
     

Share This Page