View Full Version : Deliver Us from Evil
shorty_37
10-19-07, 12:04 PM
Has anybody watched this documentary?
It was scheduled to open in the theatres, but for some strange :rolleyes:reason it was pulled before it made it there.
I rented it when it came out, it is interesting indeed and very disturbing!
It is the actual confessions of the priest and the victums. The church spent millions of dollars trying to cover it up, knowing what was going on the whole time. I am sure they are responsible for it never hitting the theatre either.
Anyway all you religious people should check it out!
http://www.deliverusfromevilthemovie.com/index_flash.php
DeepThought
10-21-07, 10:49 AM
Saw it.
The priest in the documentary seemed to struggle with the idea that he had even done anything wrong.
The Catholic Church merely labeled his sin as the breaking of his vow of celibacy and moved him to another parish where he continued his abuse.
shorty_37
10-21-07, 11:02 AM
Saw it.
The priest in the documentary seemed to struggle with the idea that he had even done anything wrong.
The Catholic Church merely labeled his sin as the breaking of his vow of celibacy and moved him to another parish where he continued his abuse.
Were you getting a knot in your stomache when he( the priest) kept grinning when he was talking about what he did:mad:
That asian man who was talking about his daughter, really got to me. That's when my eyes started welling up, he got so emotional.
The whole thing was disgusting, but yet people still stand by their church!:bugeye:
Orleander
10-21-07, 11:10 AM
...but yet people still stand by their church!:bugeye:
their local church or the catholic church as a whole?
shorty_37
10-21-07, 11:11 AM
The Catholic Church
DeepThought
10-21-07, 11:11 AM
Were you getting a knot in your stomache when he( the priest) kept grinning when he was talking about what he did:mad:
Yes the guy was infuriating... someone who completely lacked empathy with his victims.
As for that stupid letter he wrote I couldn't believe some of them were contemplating going to meet him... he obviously had a deeply sadistic streak and wanted to rub it in as much as possible and they were too good natured to realize it.
shorty_37
10-21-07, 11:14 AM
Yes the guy was infuriating... someone who completely lacked empathy with his victims.
As for that stupid letter he wrote I couldn't believe some of them were contemplating going to meet him... he obviously had a deeply sadistic streak and wanted to rub it in as much as possible but they were too good natured to realize it.
I know, I was getting so :mad: I was thinking the same thing. How would they be able to look at him without jumping over the table and strangling him to death!! I couldn't help thinking if it was my kid..... I would have LOST IT!
Or that guy, that he raped who considered suicide. Those poor ppl and families. Those ppl will never have normal lives. Then at the end he was just walking around freely again like nothing ever happened! :mad:
Orleander
10-21-07, 11:17 AM
Walking around!? Soon to be living here? :mad:
Trailer park becomes 'paradise' for sex offenders (http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/10/17/trailer.sexoffender/index.html?iref=newssearch)
Learned Hand
10-21-07, 11:43 AM
The whole thing was disgusting, but yet people still stand by their church!:bugeye:
Just because one or a handful of priests are miscreants doesn't mean you have to go all Martin Luther on the Catholic Church.
Just because one or a handful of priests are miscreants doesn't mean you have to go all Martin Luther on the Catholic Church.
Why not?
nietzschefan
10-21-07, 11:56 AM
Just because one or a handful of priests are miscreants doesn't mean you have to go all Martin Luther on the Catholic Church.
It's the way they protect them(in the U.S and Canada at least) that is so ...evil.
shorty_37
10-21-07, 12:43 PM
Just because one or a handful of priests are miscreants doesn't mean you have to go all Martin Luther on the Catholic Church.
I think it is a lot more then a handful. Did you watch this documentary? Did you see how far up the ladder the coverup went? Watch the footage from courtroom, how corupt it all is?
Were you getting a knot in your stomache when he( the priest) kept grinning when he was talking about what he did:mad:
The whole thing was disgusting, but yet people still stand by their church!:bugeye:
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Grinning...like a madman? Well there is a mental defect present. These people most likely saught the priesthood as a refuge from their sickness and in the end it was not enough to stop it. The fact is do any of us know who is like this? who is capable of this? NO. It could be an uncle, could be anyone really. How many children are molested in their own homes?
The thread i started about 'Human Sexuality' was intended to touch on this very subject but i saw it was too touchy and hard to get honest answers, the reason is we have to look into the very heart of human nature. My contention was to figure out what percentage af humans have this problem but i know i went about it the wrong way. Clearly we can expect people to be born like this but the question is WHY? There has to be some type of clue, some type signal in the brain that can be examined that we are yet to discover and i really dont think anyone wants to be born like this, which is clearly unnatural and certainly not ideal. Also in my thread i used homosexuality as a gauge\guide to look at differences to heterosexuals and pedo's as different from homosexuality and heterosexuality because neither the heterosexual or homosexual is any more predisposed to be afflicted with this mental problem which is clearly a deviation from both. So where does that leave us as a civilization?
Why blame the church when these people came right from society and were like that before becoming a priest. The priesthood was victimised by them just as much as the actual victims and maybe they thought (the molesters) by becoming a priest it would help them but this urge is too strong, we see this by the fact that these people are repeat offenders even after becoming identified. So to sit here and say 'OMG, look at the Catholic church' and not think OMG uncle Charlie is disingenuous.
As for myself, i am what can be considered ideal in terms of preferance but to ask me why is just not something i can answer and the fact is no one can. It seems to me to be just a matter of chance with molesters being the least likely result but still they are born like that and dont turn into one. The number one priority is protecting the victims and i have no problem eliminating these people from society but we dont even know why this abnormality occurs or how so all we do is sit and wait for it to happen and sure enough it does.
nietzschefan
10-21-07, 02:47 PM
yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Grinning...like a madman? Well there is a mental defect present. These people most likely saught the priesthood as a refuge from their sickness and in the end it was not enough to stop it. The fact is do any of us know who is like this? who is capable of this? NO. It could be an uncle, could be anyone really. How many children are molested in their own homes?
The thread i started about 'Human Sexuality' was intended to touch on this very subject but i saw it was too touchy and hard to get honest answers, the reason is we have to look into the very heart of human nature. My contention was to figure out what percentage af humans have this problem but i know i went about it the wrong way. Clearly we can expect people to be born like this but the question is WHY? There has to be some type of clue, some type signal in the brain that can be examined that we are yet to discover and i really dont think anyone wants to be born like this, which is clearly unnatural and certainly not ideal. Also in my thread i used homosexuality as a gauge\guide to look at differences to heterosexuals and pedo's as different from homosexuality and heterosexuality because neither the heterosexual or homosexual is any more predisposed to be afflicted with this mental problem which is clearly a deviation from both. So where does that leave us as a civilization?
Why blame the church when these people came right from society and were like that before becoming a priest. The priesthood was victimised by them just as much as the actual victims and maybe they thought (the molesters) by becoming a priest it would help them but this urge is too strong, we see this by the fact that these people are repeat offenders even after becoming identified. So to sit here and say 'OMG, look at the Catholic church' and not think OMG uncle Charlie is disingenuous.
As for myself, i am what can be considered ideal in terms of preferance but to ask me why is just not something i can answer and the fact is no one can. It seems to me to be just a matter of chance with molesters being the least likely result but still they are born like that and dont turn into one. The number one priority is protecting the victims and i have no problem eliminating these people from society but we dont even know why this abnormality occurs or how so all we do is sit and wait for it to happen and sure enough it does.
The fact is, if he wasn't a priest, he would be doing a LOT of time in prison right now.
Orleander
10-21-07, 04:10 PM
The fact is, if he wasn't a priest, he would be doing a LOT of time in prison right now.
agreed. The church covered his ass for so long that the statute of limitations ran out on many of his child rapes. The higher-ups made a safe place for pedophiles to go and covered for them while they did it.
shorty_37
10-21-07, 05:32 PM
I am Catholic myself but not practicing at all!! My Dad was catholic and would drag me to church here and there. My mom was not catholic and I finally said well if she isn't going why should I ? Finally he let it go, and I really never went anymore. I noticed even at young age they sure passed around the collection basket alot during the service. I didn't even marry in the Church because there were too many rules. I did baptise my kids, only because they were going to go to Catholic school. (at the time it was right across the street from my house) As soon as the Public school was built beside it, I transferred both over.
Later after hearing what other corrupt disgusting things were going on, similar to this documentary. I can't understand how ppl could be so faithful to the church.
Carcano
10-21-07, 07:11 PM
I noticed even at young age they sure passed around the collection basket alot during the service.
Now you know why they need all that money. :)
shorty_37
10-21-07, 07:18 PM
Now you know why they need all that money. :)
It's good to know it all went for a good cause:bugeye:
Orleander
10-21-07, 07:52 PM
Wasn't the church just acting like any big business? Move the problem and cover it up.
shorty_37
10-21-07, 07:55 PM
Wasn't the church just acting like any big business? Move the problem and cover it up.
Sure but it's a bit different. When the problem is a pedophile (priest) that you are moving maybe 50-100km away from the previous town he molested a child. Then just continuing to move him to the next town after he molests a child again........and so on.
Orleander
10-21-07, 08:01 PM
so, I'm gonna guess your kids don't go to church?
(only 1 of mine does. I never gave it any more thought than sending her to school)
shorty_37
10-21-07, 08:02 PM
so, I'm gonna guess your kids don't go to church?
(only 1 of mine does. I never gave it any more thought than sending her to school)
Nope they don't go to church.
Michael
10-21-07, 08:49 PM
I didn't see this movie - from what you guys are writing I'm really not sure if I could stomach it. Just sick. I'm happy that that Canadian pedophile was busted in Thailand - I hope they send him to a Thai prison for a about 20 years. Sadly it'll be more like 7 :( The sad thing is they sad it is Sooooo rampant in SE Asia. Damn it.
snake river rufus
10-21-07, 09:01 PM
That grinning priest-
Did they say where he was from?
We had one in wichita that molested for twenty some years and grinned all the way through to prison. 20 something month sentence for 72 (?) boys.
Is that a reason to go martin luther on the church?
so, I'm gonna guess your kids don't go to church?
(only 1 of mine does. I never gave it any more thought than sending her to school)
But you were an atheist right ? So I'm guessing your husband isn't ?
shorty_37
10-21-07, 09:05 PM
That grinning priest-
Did they say where he was from?
We had one in wichita that molested for twenty some years and grinned all the way through to prison. 20 something month sentence for 72 (?) boys.
Is that a reason to go martin luther on the church?
This priest never went to jail!!! :mad: If it have been someone other then a priest though he would have! I will have to check again, I forgot where he was from. I would say its a good reason to martin luther on the church.
shorty_37
10-21-07, 09:08 PM
They say there are over 100,000 case of clergy sexual abuse in the U.S
The church spent over 1 billion dollars in settlements.
snake river rufus
10-21-07, 09:28 PM
This priest never went to jail!!! :mad: If it have been someone other then a priest though he would have! I will have to check again, I forgot where he was from. I would say its a good reason to martin luther on the church.
Nah, don't upset yourself.
shorty_37
10-21-07, 09:33 PM
grinned all the way through to prison. 20 something month sentence for 72 (?) boys.
I hope he got raped everyday of 20 the months!
Just because one or a handful of priests are miscreants doesn't mean you have to go all Martin Luther on the Catholic Church.
The issue here is the way in which the Catholic Church attempted to conceal the level of abuse perpetrated by its clergy. Any organisation that uses such means to cover up the despicable behaviour of its members in such a fashion should face public condemnation. Sadly this problem is not synonymous to the Catholic Church, but exists in many other organisations.
When you have a large religious organisation like the Catholic Church moving priests out of parishes as soon as reports of abuse is received, hiding the history of the priests who commit the abuse and allowing them to have further and at times unfetted access to other children, not reporting the "miscreants" to the police, abusing the victims by denying the abuse occurred. It reeks of hypocrisy and is, for lack of a better term, evil. The same can be said of any organisation that has conducted itself in a similar manner.
Orleander
10-22-07, 07:37 AM
But you were an atheist right ? So I'm guessing your husband isn't ?
My husband has never been in a church. My daughter is Christian so she goes to church. We each have to follow our hearts and this is where her's has taken her.
The fact is, if he wasn't a priest, he would be doing a LOT of time in prison right now.
That should be true but it is not. Many child abusers are walking the streets even after convictions.
Orleander
10-22-07, 07:45 AM
That should be true but it is not.
yes it is. The church covered for some of those men for so long that the statute of limitations ran out on a large portion of their crimes.
yes it is. The church covered for some of those men for so long that the statute of limitations ran out on a large portion of their crimes.
I added this:Many child abusers are walking the streets even after convictions..
I really dont know the specifics of these cases, do you? How did they cover for them?
Orleander
10-22-07, 07:52 AM
I added this:.
I really dont know the specifics of these cases, do you? How did they cover for them?
If you don't know the specifics of the cases, how can you say its not true?
I think all the money now being given to families of the victims says it is true.
If you don't know the specifics of the cases, how can you say its not true?
I think all the money now being given to families of the victims says it is true.
I said that nietzschefan's claim of them getting short sentences because they were priests is not true- self preserving justice system.
Many latched onto class action suits, you would be surprised of what repressed memories a person has when a lawsuit refreshes their memory.
Orleander
10-22-07, 08:03 AM
I said that nietzschefan's claim of them getting short sentences because they were priests is not true- self preserving justice system.
Many latched onto class action suits, you would be surprised of what repressed memories a person has when a lawsuit refreshes their memory.
then we are going to disagree. I think the priests got short sentences because they couldn't be prosecuted for a large chunk of their crimes. How long of a sentence is someone going to get if they can only be charged for 3 out of 75 rapes?
shorty_37
10-22-07, 08:19 AM
I really dont know the specifics of these cases, do you? How did they cover for them?
Rent the Documentary, and you will find out! They are not actors in it, they are the real people involved, from the priests to the victims. They also have the footage of the court questioning. You will find out how they knowingly covered it all up, just by moving him 50-100km away each time, to STRIKE another innocent victim.
shorty_37
10-22-07, 08:23 AM
I said that nietzschefan's claim of them getting short sentences because they were priests is not true- self preserving justice system.
Well this priest served no jail time. At the end of the documentary he is just walking in the street, grinning. While the poor victims and the families lives will never be the same again.
Which case does the movie go into? I may rent it but i am not really into those docs. at all. Sooooo, cant you just tell us?
i found it. i cannot listen to audio on this computer but when you see the faces that is enough, in a way it is anyway.
the thing is, this is not a religious issue so it is more suited to human science. i cannot remember the number but i heard on t.v that one pedophile molests an incredibe number of people. but what is the answer? well we need a short term solution to a long term problem.
drugs and therapy? i think many with high recidivism have gone that route.
at a lecture the simplest explanation was give: it is how their brains are wired. granted it was on a different offense but then i wondered aloud ' how the brain is wired':scratchin: honestly, i had never looked at it that way. simple...but now what?
We can make the wiring assumption about many long term disorders, if so then we can also examine the positive traits exhibited and if we can do that we will then work towards re-wiring these brains. First thing is to identify the wires but for the life of me i cannot figure out where to begin. How can this possibly be done without further damage\risk? it is worth looking into further.
I am referring to hard core molesters, there is most likely a commonality between this and other violent crimes right up to serial killers because they are repeat offenders. also, the reason i say violent is due to total disregard for the victims.
My husband has never been in a church. My daughter is Christian so she goes to church. We each have to follow our hearts and this is where her's has taken her.
Oh ok, cool :)
Is she going to a Christian school then ?
nietzschefan
10-22-07, 11:18 AM
Which case does the movie go into? I may rent it but i am not really into those docs. at all. Sooooo, cant you just tell us?
No, you have to watch it to get it. Understand? You have to actually watch the volume of DAMAGE this guy has done to people to get it. Get it? Watch a hard core Japanese-American(with the most amazing U.S accent) break down and ball his eyes out on camera while saying the things this guy did. Then watch the court dog and pony show and come back and tell us you don't get it.
Learned Hand
10-22-07, 12:11 PM
I am Catholic myself but not practicing at all!! My Dad was catholic and would drag me to church here and there. My mom was not catholic and I finally said well if she isn't going why should I ? Finally he let it go, and I really never went anymore. I noticed even at young age they sure passed around the collection basket alot during the service. I didn't even marry in the Church because there were too many rules. I did baptise my kids, only because they were going to go to Catholic school. (at the time it was right across the street from my house) As soon as the Public school was built beside it, I transferred both over.
Later after hearing what other corrupt disgusting things were going on, similar to this documentary. I can't understand how ppl could be so faithful to the church.
I'm Catholic as well, but I don't blame the faith or religion which is the Church. Priests are human, and disposed to immorality as any other. I'm sure Baptist, Lutheran, and Methodist faiths also have their fair share of weirdo ministers, but I won't condemn their "Church" simply because they are the exception, not the rule.
nietzschefan
10-22-07, 12:13 PM
The Catholic church is to be condemed for their OWN coverup, not the actions of the individual priests(regardless of numbers).
Orleander
10-22-07, 12:34 PM
Oh ok, cool :)
Is she going to a Christian school then ?
well, I have gotten the odd 'God bless' memo, they get xmas break, they sing Silent Night at the xmas pageant, and prayer is said at graduation, so yes, she goes to a xtian school.
If it was my school, I might complain, but its hers, so I don't.
Orleander
10-22-07, 12:42 PM
If my local school kept covering for a teacher and moving him from class to class, I'd be pissed at that school. Not all of them. However, if it was done nationwide, I'd be pissed at the school system and I'd start home schooling, no matter what state I lived in.
Its teh same as what the Catholic Church did.
Learned Hand
10-22-07, 12:46 PM
The Catholic church is to be condemed for their OWN coverup, not the actions of the individual priests(regardless of numbers).
Certainly society may condemn what was done. But contrition and forgiveness of sin is at the heart of the Catholic Church. I think the Church should avail itself of its believes, and only when one does not act with a contrite heart and continues to sin to the point of harming the foundation of the Church it becomes blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and the priest should be excommunicated.
Orleander
10-22-07, 12:56 PM
... the priest should be excommunicated.
yeah, you would think so, wouldn't you? But no...
nietzschefan
10-22-07, 01:05 PM
Certainly society may condemn what was done. But contrition and forgiveness of sin is at the heart of the Catholic Church. I think the Church should avail itself of its believes, and only when one does not act with a contrite heart and continues to sin to the point of harming the foundation of the Church it becomes blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and the priest should be excommunicated.
Well that's a whole other topic. The fact that this guy just says "Hey God, I'm sorry" and gets to go to "heaven". Yeah, really makes the rest of us "sinners" want to go to heaven. What a fucking joke, it just amazes me, such ancient bullshit is still believed.
well, I have gotten the odd 'God bless' memo, they get xmas break, they sing Silent Night at the xmas pageant, and prayer is said at graduation, so yes, she goes to a xtian school.
If it was my school, I might complain, but its hers, so I don't.
Nah, it's good to experience it and make up your own mind about it.
I went to a Christian school and even went to church when I was a kid ;)
No, you have to watch it to get it. Understand? You have to actually watch the volume of DAMAGE this guy has done to people to get it. Get it? Watch a hard core Japanese-American(with the most amazing U.S accent) break down and ball his eyes out on camera while saying the things this guy did. Then watch the court dog and pony show and come back and tell us you don't get it.
Well that is why this is called a discussion forum. I thought that possibly we would be able to discuss the facts without the melodrama.
The Catholic church is to be condemed for their OWN coverup, not the actions of the individual priests(regardless of numbers).
What cover up? If you can just outline what was mentioned in the documentary we would be able to make an assessment, why are you getting so defensive? I believe an organisation who demands such difficult requirements as that of Priests would leave its doors open to evil people infiltrating it. Doesnt it always? i can take any field and well what do you know? They have their fair share of molesters.
it just amazes me, such ancient bullshit is still believed.
Why? have you ever heard of incorruptibility?
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=incorruptibility&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
nietzschefan
10-22-07, 03:24 PM
Well that is why this is called a discussion forum. I thought that possibly we would be able to discuss the facts without the melodrama.
What cover up? If you can just outline what was mentioned in the documentary we would be able to make an assessment, why are you getting so defensive? I believe an organisation who demands such difficult requirements as that of Priests would leave its doors open to evil people infiltrating it. Doesnt it always? i can take any field and well what do you know? They have their fair share of molesters.
Why? have you ever heard of incorruptibility?
http://www.google.com/search?client=opera&rls=en&q=incorruptibility&sourceid=opera&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8
I'm not defensive. I'm just saying go watch the documentary(with sound). You are defensive.
Lenin is also Incorruptable.
I'm not defensive. I'm just saying go watch the documentary(with sound). You are defensive.
Lenin is also Incorruptable.
Asking questions is not defensive, and i am neutral. I dont know much about Lenin nor do i care to, from what i do know this is a person i would sooner forget. The term is incorruptible. And he is not anyway.
What cover up? If you can just outline what was mentioned in the documentary we would be able to make an assessment, why are you getting so defensive? I believe an organisation who demands such difficult requirements as that of Priests would leave its doors open to evil people infiltrating it. Doesnt it always? i can take any field and well what do you know? They have their fair share of molesters.
I think this might shed some light on what you wish to know:
If there is a single priest whose transgressions could cover wide and daunting ground, director Amy Berg found him in Oliver O'Grady. Throughout the 1970s and 1980s, "Father Ollie" ingratiated himself with parishioners all over southern California who entrusted him with their children's spiritual care. As both O'Grady and his victims' parents testify here, he was an apparently insatiable sexual predator whose acts of rape, sodomy and abuse of children numbered in the hundreds.
The, soft-spoken O'Grady, now living free in Ireland after serving half of a 14-year jail sentence, not only enjoyed sex with pre-adolescents and teenagers, but with newborn babies. He was also not above seducing parents as a way of getting intimate with their children.
What really agonizes these victims -- and will infuriate audiences -- is that instead of doing something about O'Grady, his superiors in the California diocese kept moving him from parish to parish in an effort to cover up his behavior. Berg, a veteran of both CBS News and CNN, carefully and calmly assembles a devastating case against church officials' mendacity. There are videotapes of Los Angeles Archbishop Roger Mahoney and other leaders lying about how much they knew about O'Grady's transgressions.
Link (http://www.newsday.com/entertainment/movies/ny-deliver1012,0,1692662.story?coll=ny-moviereview-headlines)
The cover-up John is the means by which the Catholic Church lied and tried to hide his indiscretions by moving him from parish to parish, continuing his access to children. They did not report him to the police, instead they lied. For any organisation to act this way is deplorable. That it is a church makes it even more disgusting. This, sadly, is not that uncommon. It also occurs in other organisations, religious and non-religious.
Certainly society may condemn what was done. But contrition and forgiveness of sin is at the heart of the Catholic Church. I think the Church should avail itself of its believes, and only when one does not act with a contrite heart and continues to sin to the point of harming the foundation of the Church it becomes blasphemy of the Holy Spirit, and the priest should be excommunicated.
Little boys are getting buggered by filthy old sods, who ARE the foundation of the Church. No one gives a flying fuck about blaspheming the fucking Holy Spirit, because little boys are getting buggered by filthy old sods. Filthy old sods do not deserve forgiveness for buggering little boys.
As anyone can plainly see, the Catholic Church AND it's brethren (you) are more concerned about their own interests and reputations than they are about filthy sods buggering little boys.
The condemnation of the Catholic Church by society is a necessity.
Learned Hand
10-23-07, 09:56 AM
Little boys are getting buggered by filthy old sods, who ARE the foundation of the Church. No one gives a flying fuck about blaspheming the fucking Holy Spirit, because little boys are getting buggered by filthy old sods. Filthy old sods do not deserve forgiveness for buggering little boys.
As anyone can plainly see, the Catholic Church AND it's brethren (you) are more concerned about their own interests and reputations than they are about filthy sods buggering little boys.
The condemnation of the Catholic Church by society is a necessity.
Well, then, by your take, we should all be condemned because our society generates filthy old sods who go after kids and we allow them to "get buggered" as they move around from town to town.
My only point was that the Church should put a limit on this type of behavior internally within the tenets of their belief; if it gets to the point of continuous and intentional "buggering," the Church should kick them out & work with civil authorities in bringing them to justice. I certainly don't praise the Church for their priest hopping, but I'm not going condemn a faith because of the sin of the man.
Orleander
10-23-07, 10:16 AM
...I'm not going condemn a faith because of the sin of the man.
Its not the faith, its the church I condemn.
Little boys are getting buggered by filthy old sods, who ARE the foundation of the Church. No one gives a flying fuck about blaspheming the fucking Holy Spirit, because little boys are getting buggered by filthy old sods. Filthy old sods do not deserve forgiveness for buggering little boys.
As anyone can plainly see, the Catholic Church AND it's brethren (you) are more concerned about their own interests and reputations than they are about filthy sods buggering little boys.
The condemnation of the Catholic Church by society is a necessity.
Well if we took the pictures of ALL children who were sexually abused as the link in bells post does, how far do you think that line would go? AND it mentions a handful of perpetrators responsible for the devistation. I can mention a field\profession that it is much MUCH more widespread. In fact the link BELLS linked to has a link to it embedded right in the page. BUT the way i see it is why gloat? i am not here to hurt people. But sometimes the truth hurts. And it is swept under the rug in too many way there too.
We can BS all we want but i prefer facts and statistics so just do the research. My post can\should be viewed as NOT having an ANTI-religious chip on my shoulder but people see what they want to see and ignore what they want.
Not to mention children crying themselves to sleep every single night because they live with addicted parents and the long term\destructive effects that has but lets just forget they exist. They are probably poor and under educated anyway. Insignificant to most people.
Yeah, poor slobs to be stepped on. So go right ahead with this self righteous crocodile tears bullshit because they turn into adults...adults to be ridiculed and make those who were\are perfect feel better.
Well, then, by your take, we should all be condemned because our society generates filthy old sods who go after kids and we allow them to "get buggered" as they move around from town to town.
That makes no sense.
My only point was that the Church should put a limit on this type of behavior internally within the tenets of their belief; if it gets to the point of continuous and intentional "buggering," the Church should kick them out & work with civil authorities in bringing them to justice. I certainly don't praise the Church for their priest hopping, but I'm not going condemn a faith because of the sin of the man.
The only thing worse than a corrupt organization are the people who defend it.
Sin? WTF are you talking about? Buggery isn't a sin, numbnuts, it's a fucking crime.
You of all people should be demanding his head on a stick, not some bullshit 'behavior limitations." The entire fucking Catholic organization needs a damn good enema.
Not to mention children crying themselves to sleep every single night because they live with addicted parents and the long term\destructive effects that has but lets just forget they exist. They are probably poor and under educated anyway. Insignificant to most people.
Yeah, poor slobs to be stepped on. So go right ahead with this self righteous crocodile tears bullshit because they turn into adults...adults to be ridiculed and make those who were\are perfect feel better.
Those who defend the church for their actions are as guilty as the perpetrators who commit the crime. What exactly are you doing about it?
Oh yes, defending them.
Orleander
10-23-07, 08:01 PM
and the hiding/lying continue
Vatican Sex Sting (http://www.newsweek.com/id/56555/%3E)
Learned Hand
10-23-07, 10:15 PM
That makes no sense.
The only thing worse than a corrupt organization are the people who defend it.
Sin? WTF are you talking about? Buggery isn't a sin, numbnuts, it's a fucking crime.
You of all people should be demanding his head on a stick, not some bullshit 'behavior limitations." The entire fucking Catholic organization needs a damn good enema.
Sure it makes sense, assuming that your not a pure existentialist isolating yourself in a cage. Society breeds what it breeds, and an existential society must take responsibility for its own doings (whatsoever they may be) that allow the damn "buggers" to spread their pain, sin, and crime.
Those who defend the church for their actions are as guilty as the perpetrators who commit the crime. What exactly are you doing about it?
Oh yes, defending them.
How am i defending these abusers? I stated right from the very beginning that there should be no second chances for pedophiles, the differece is i am not on a witch hunt and do not exhibit some misguided agenda.
I also said that if you look at BELLS link with the pictures eliminate the priests victims and show images of other sexually abused children from all walks of life how far would that line stretch?
Why dont you look at this and then tell me what the problem is.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=3755182
There are levels of abuse and the particular case highlighted in the link is low on victimization scale, nevertheless the article shows much wider spread of abuse than was involved in this priest scandal but either way those priests should not see the light of day. But i do not make the laws and you can thank the bleeding hearst who cannot see that there is no rehabilitating this disease.
This guy was a repeat offender and finally took the life of an innocent child:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Couey
But then it is too late. Just recently there was a case of a 3yo child molested by a person who had no outward signs at all and had normal relations with adult women. We need to find out why these people are different and what drives them. This can only be done through medical research.
You are the one who is blinded by animosity and cannot see that these hanful of priests came right out of the same exact society and they are not any different from the other pedophiles. My first or second post in this thread alluded to the fact that we can expect a small number of people to be afflicted with this defect, my human sexuality thread was meant to study this aspect of human behavior because i will tell you that if we do not look at this from a scientific perspective we will never change it.
I am not here to argue because we are all on the same page.
Sure it makes sense, assuming that your not a pure existentialist isolating yourself in a cage. Society breeds what it breeds, and an existential society must take responsibility for its own doings (whatsoever they may be) that allow the damn "buggers" to spread their pain, sin, and crime.
Yet, the problem of buggery runs rampant through your cult and you sit there defending it. You aren't taking any responsibility, so the cult needs to be shut down, immediately.
You are the one who is blinded by animosity and cannot see that these hanful of priests came right out of the same exact society and they are not any different from the other pedophiles.
Yet, you happily defend and are a card carrying member of the cult that breeds these pedophiles. You treat this like it's some 'one-off' instance, while pedophiles run rampant throughout the cult.
Yes, there is a difference between your cult and society, your cult protects and harbors pedophiles.
My first or second post in this thread alluded to the fact that we can expect a small number of people to be afflicted with this defect, my human sexuality thread was meant to study this aspect of human behavior because i will tell you that if we do not look at this from a scientific perspective we will never change it.
It will never change, until your cult is completely eradicated.
I am not here to argue because we are all on the same page.
No, we're not on the same page, I don't belong to, defend or worship a cult that breeds and harbors pedophiles.
shorty_37
10-24-07, 09:03 AM
No, we're not on the same page, I don't belong to, defend or worship a cult that breeds and harbors pedophiles.
Me either!! The whole thing makes me sick. I am Catholic (on a piece of paper) that is about it! Anybody who is defending their actions really makes me wonder:bugeye:
Yet, you happily defend and are a card carrying member of the cult that breeds these pedophiles. You treat this like it's some 'one-off' instance, while pedophiles run rampant throughout the cult.
Yes, there is a difference between your cult and society, your cult protects and harbors pedophiles.
It will never change, until your cult is completely eradicated.
No, we're not on the same page, I don't belong to, defend or worship a cult that breeds and harbors pedophiles.
I meant on the same page with normal people, not necessarily you or at least you are not showing that you would be included. Why dont you tell me how you came to assume that i am a 'card carrying member of the cult that breeds these pedophiles'. And we dont even know what the hell you are, if you are male or female. I am guessing female.
you happily defend and are a card carrying member of the cult that breeds these pedophiles.
So are you dummy. Why dont you educate your self on the scope and magnitude of the problem then come back here and discuss it rationally, if you have the capacity to do so.
the majority of child pornography produced worldwide is targeted at the U.S., where by the early 1990s it was already a $3 billion a year business, and growing. Thomas claims that - according to law enforcement figures - over 22 million copies of child pornography videos were sold or rented in the U.S. in 1991.
A cult of child molesters, and what maybe 99.99999999999% are NOT priests. Dont get tough with me behind your computer Q, i may joke arund alot here but dont think that gives you the right to abuse me.
Did you even know that?
Child sexual abuse has been reported up to 80,000 times a year, but the number of unreported instances is far greater
Do you even care?
http://www.aacap.org/cs/root/facts_for_families/child_sexual_abuse
I dont know what your problem is but i think it may just be common narcissism.
Me either!! The whole thing makes me sick. I am Catholic (on a piece of paper) that is about it! Anybody who is defending their actions really makes me wonder:bugeye:
Maybe you should spend more time thinking and less time wondering. What do you do when you 'wonder'?
http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/PUBLICATIONS/factsheet/fsabuse1.htm
Yet, you happily defend and are a card carrying member of the cult that breeds these pedophiles. You treat this like it's some 'one-off' instance, while pedophiles run rampant throughout the cult.
Breeds pedophiles? How? In a petridish? Rampant through the cult? Do you suppose there could be a correlation between a profession that requires sexual celibacy and the ratio of attraction of straight adult males who might be likely to be found in such profession? I bet you would also find a higher ratio of homosexuals (closeted) in such professions as well, since they would not need to explain their lack of relationship with a female. Does this mean the Church breeds homosexuals?
I agree with you about harboring them though (the pedophiles, not the homosexuals). That is wrong.
Breeds pedophiles? How? In a petridish? Rampant through the cult? Do you suppose there could be a correlation between a profession that requires sexual celibacy and the ratio of attraction of straight adult males who might be likely to be found in such profession? I bet you would also find a higher ratio of homosexuals (closeted) in such professions as well, since they would not need to explain their lack of relationship with a female. Does this mean the Church breeds homosexuals?
I agree with you about harboring them though (the pedophiles, not the homosexuals). That is wrong.
S.A.M,
Homosexuals may seek the priesthood as protection from a cold cruel society, i can agree with you there.
I agree with you about harboring them though
Some cultures grown men marry 12 year olds, some would view this as harboring.
Why dont you tell me how you came to assume that i am a 'card carrying member of the cult that breeds these pedophiles'.
You're a Catholic, aren't you? You're doing nothing about these crimes other than defending your cult?
So are you dummy. Why dont you educate your self on the scope and magnitude of the problem then come back here and discuss it rationally, if you have the capacity to do so.
That won't be possible with you, as you will simply continue to defend your cult, regardless of the magnitude of the problem.
A cult of child molesters, and what maybe 99.99999999999% are NOT priests. Dont get tough with me behind your computer Q, i may joke arund alot here but dont think that gives you the right to abuse me.
No, THAT is a joke.
Did you even know that?
I dont know what your problem is but i think it may just be common narcissism.
The problem is cults that harbor pedophiles and the people who follow and worship the cult. Ring any bells?
Breeds pedophiles? How? In a petridish? Rampant through the cult? Do you suppose there could be a correlation between a profession that requires sexual celibacy and the ratio of attraction of straight adult males who might be likely to be found in such profession? I bet you would also find a higher ratio of homosexuals (closeted) in such professions as well, since they would not need to explain their lack of relationship with a female. Does this mean the Church breeds homosexuals?
I agree with you about harboring them though (the pedophiles, not the homosexuals). That is wrong.
So, if I respond to your questions, are you later going to accuse me of following you around?
nietzschefan
10-25-07, 10:52 AM
So, if I respond to your questions, are you later going to accuse me of following you around?
My advice is to not respond to her, because she might just delete the whole thread. How about that huh? Delete a bunch of your posts, that might have nothing to do with her latest pissing match.
So, if I respond to your questions, are you later going to accuse me of following you around?
You can follow me around anytime, peachums. :p
Now answer the question.
You're a Catholic, aren't you? You're doing nothing about these crimes other than defending your cult?
Honestly i dont know where you get that from. And i never believed in 'worshipping' anything. The truth is i would be the last person to join a cult, even though the RCC does not, by definition, qualify as one. I do belive in Christ and ALL of that but i never hid that from anyone, it does not matter to me what you or anyone else belives in and i think different ideas are good and all are fine with me. In reality i do not get carried away with my belief system and it is possible that i will die a Catholic, at that last minute that may happen.
That won't be possible with you, as you will simply continue to defend your cult, regardless of the magnitude of the problem.
That is the difference (one difference) between you and I defend lots of people who are being unjustly persecuted regardless of belief, color, sexual prefernce etc. Obviously you are blinded from seeing what i was saying in the posts, that this is no more prevelant than in other fields and tbh it is more prevelant in others sometimes MUCH more. My contention is to present facts insted of accusations then we can discuss them, i am not one to jump on the band wagon and kick someone when they are down and this is not something i admire in people. No, i will go over and help them up and i dont care what anyone else thinks because they can go F*** themselves. But like i said there is no problem between us and i can forget this whole personal thing, i dont think you will though.
The problem is cults that harbor pedophiles and the people who follow and worship the cult. Ring any bells?
NONE. To what extent where they harbored? When this, in relation to the subject, happens to anyone it is a serious crime and i dont agree with merciful justice for them and knowledge of a crime and not saying anything is a serious offense. I am sure the few involved were prosecuted. And there are lots of forms of abuse with millions of children all over the world living through it every night, what is being done for them? not enough. i dont know what enough is when they sacrifice their lives for something, something they had no control over. You may think i am taking this personally and i guess i am but not for the reasons you think. [forget that part]
You can follow me around anytime, peachums. :p
Now answer the question.
No thanks. You've already lied about it. I won't be taking the bait.
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