View Full Version : Aerospace designs of the future
After the rain came meteor showers, and only than did I see the light of the engines.
http://www.graduatingengineer.com/futuredisc/aerospace.html
The future of aerospace engineering lies in our needs.
What needs will the human population have in the future?
http://aero.larc.nasa.gov/images/banner/UNIV_Comp_angif.gif
What needs from aerospace industry will you have in the future?
Just give me an affordable trip to the Moon, will ya? That's the most I expect in my lifetime.
superluminal
10-07-07, 04:31 PM
If I can't get to a galaxy in Abell 1656 for afternoon tea and be back in time for the Simpsons, I am not satisfied with our transportation progress.
Just give me an affordable trip to the Moon, will ya? That's the most I expect in my lifetime.
Even though spaceship Orion (http://www.lockheedmartin.com/products/Orion/index.html) might just do that before year 2022...I am not sure the price will be affordable. But I will sure try to sort things out.
cosmictraveler
10-07-07, 04:36 PM
Just give me an affordable trip to the Moon, will ya? That's the most I expect in my lifetime.
I'd just like to take off and land on time without losing my luggage in my lifetime! Lower fares also would be great seeing as how there's more people onboard nowadays then before.
If I can't get to a galaxy in Abell 1656 for afternoon tea and be back in time for the Simpsons, I am not satisfied with our transportation progress.
and might I ask what business our costumer has at Abell 1656?
Communist Hamster
10-07-07, 04:58 PM
I really like draqons philosophy and his attitude to space.
But, yeah, give me a chance to stand upon the surface of the moon once in my lifetime.
cosmictraveler
10-07-07, 05:02 PM
Let them make bathrooms on planes better so that I don't have to squeeze in and out, then hit people that are going by when I come out! How about that flush, it can be heard round the world! :D
superluminal
10-07-07, 05:17 PM
and might I ask what business our costumer has at Abell 1656?
Who knows? Lucrative trade?
Who knows? Lucrative trade?
so than you will need to transport large masses?
Nikelodeon
10-10-07, 04:39 AM
What needs from aerospace industry will you have in the future?
Fast clean transport.
redarmy11
10-10-07, 04:44 AM
We have trains for that.
Nikelodeon
10-10-07, 04:47 AM
Not fast enough. OK for city to city, but not continent to continent.
redarmy11
10-10-07, 04:54 AM
/Sarcasm
They're neither fast nor clean.
Now on the continent...
cosmictraveler
10-10-07, 09:44 AM
Not fast enough. OK for city to city, but not continent to continent.
How about underwater trains inside tunnels?
I'd like to go on a journey to the centre of the earth.
Or to the land that time forgot.
Guys/gals this thread is not about traveling on/through Earth.
Nikelodeon
10-10-07, 11:17 AM
I want a Spaceship that can carry all the politicians and lawyers to the exact centre of the sun.
I want a Spaceship that can carry all the politicians and lawyers to the exact centre of the sun.
I nor the aerospace companies of the future (excluding military) do not stand for massacre.
Nikelodeon
10-10-07, 11:24 AM
All aerospace companies have blood on thier hands. Theres no escaping the military.
Guys/gals this thread is not about traveling on/through Earth.
But sometimes you have to go through it to get to the other side. Just ask any neutrino.
Klippymitch
10-10-07, 08:35 PM
You could pick more than one off that list so the poll isnt accurate.
Earth:
Supersonic
Solar System:
2 week trip across.
Galaxy to Galaxy:
Impossible fast.
You could pick more than one off that list so the poll isnt accurate.
Earth:
Supersonic
Solar System:
2 week trip across.
Galaxy to Galaxy:
Impossible fast.
Location of service matters...not just speeds of travel.
I will now list the aerospace companies of now and their currently under development (not just proposed) projects.
The major ones.
Service to the suborbit and back
Scaled Composites/Virgin Galactic: (plan to use SpaceShipThree....bigger version of SpaceShipOne)
http://i.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/space/0410/spaceshipone/spaceshipone.jpg
Service to the station and back
Space Adventures: (use Soyuz rockets
Service to the Moon and back
Space Adventures/Constellation Services International: (plan to use Soyuz rocket)
http://www.constellationservices.com/lunarexpresssmsystem.html_files/lunar_express_architecture.jpg
Nikelodeon
10-11-07, 12:29 PM
Whose plan is the moon one?
Whose plan is the moon one?
Space Adventures company
Nikelodeon
10-11-07, 12:32 PM
Space Adventures company
Price - $100 million.
A bit beyond my budget. :(
this is the future design of the Space Adventures company of use of Kliper aboard air vehicle carrier for to-station and back service.
Kliper (Cosmopolis XXI ) is made...vehicle carrier is not.
http://images.spaceref.com/news/2002/03.14.02.c21a.jpg
http://vesolje.net/navtika/novice/2002/03/c21e-h.jpg
Price - $100 million.
A bit beyond my budget. :(
Price is $20-30 million.
Nikelodeon
10-11-07, 12:36 PM
Price is $20-30 million.
http://www.spaceadventures.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Lunar.welcome
The Space Adventures team has designed a circumlunar mission using a unique combination of existing and flight tested Russian technology. This mission builds on space technology originally developed for manned lunar missions, and has been flown over decades as part of the world’s most successful human spaceflight program.
This $200m effort, which sells at $100m per seat, marks an unprecedented reduction in cost, with increased safety, of any previous manned lunar effort.
http://www.spaceadventures.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=Lunar.welcome
oh you were talking about the moon cost...sorry I thought you meant the current cost to station.
Anyways that 100 million price will go down. dont worry. :p
Klippymitch
10-11-07, 08:25 PM
Location of service matters...not just speeds of travel.
Location of service?
We only live on earth at the moment? What other locations do I have to include?
Location of service?
We only live on earth at the moment? What other locations do I have to include?
notice the thread title inclusion of the word "future" :)
dare to dream
and who are we who only live on Earth? :bugeye: some of us spend almost a year living in space...ISS.
By year 2025 some of us will be spending a lot of time on moon
By year 2040...some of us will be landing on Mars...and Mars will not be a one day mission for sure...it will be more than a year.
Klippymitch
10-11-07, 09:19 PM
notice the thread title inclusion of the word "future" :)
dare to dream
and who are we who only live on Earth? :bugeye: some of us spend almost a year living in space...ISS.
By year 2025 some of us will be spending a lot of time on moon
By year 2040...some of us will be landing on Mars...and Mars will not be a one day mission for sure...it will be more than a year.
Yes.
The word "future" is why I put 1 week trip across solar system. You never gave a description of how far into the future.
I also want a flying car that runs off static electricity and can fly me to the moon in less then a day.:D I wish.
Yes.
The word "future" is why I put 1 week trip across solar system. You never gave a description of how far into the future.
I also want a flying car that runs off static electricity and can fly me to the moon in less then a day.:D I wish.
yeah and I want free sandwiches with bologna every day.:p
Klippymitch
10-11-07, 09:26 PM
notice the thread title inclusion of the word "future" :)
dare to dream
and who are we who only live on Earth? :bugeye: some of us spend almost a year living in space...ISS.
By year 2025 some of us will be spending a lot of time on moon
By year 2040...some of us will be landing on Mars...and Mars will not be a one day mission for sure...it will be more than a year.
How many people live on the space station? Also the people from the station don't live on the station for their whole life. It's a temporary stay also the people that do go to the station is from earth. And plus the station is right next to earth following a orbit around earth.
Parhadron
10-13-07, 03:01 PM
Oh, I do so hate to burst bubbles, but how long do you actually expect to be able to hold your breath?
Anyway, how 'bout all that TITANIUM on Mars? LOL.
Parhadron
10-13-07, 03:17 PM
Just one more for 'mate, yall: ahhh...wonder what reentry tests...anyway...
*snore*
Oh, I do so hate to burst bubbles, but how long do you actually expect to be able to hold your breath?
Anyway, how 'bout all that TITANIUM on Mars? LOL.
hold my breath?
Life Supporting Systems are self sufficient. ECLSS is ENVIRONMENTAL CONTROL AND LIFE SUPPORT SYSTEM aboard ISS or International Space Station...the unit can be modernized by having photosynthetesis capture the CO2 and convert it to oxygen. Meanwhile the current ECLSS waste of hydrogen can be utilized by having it power the system. SELF SUFFICIENT LIFE SUPPORTING SYSTEM...no need for breath holding.
Titanium on Mars? What are you talking about? The soil composition based on spectral analysis (alpha particle X-ray) of Spirit rover showed that it is made of:
Parhadron
10-13-07, 03:44 PM
Oh, never a thought to combustion, after Alpha Centauri, eh?
Parhadron
10-13-07, 03:47 PM
All those plants...for THAT RATIO?
All those plants...for THAT RATIO?
or we can have CO2 undergo Zirconia electrolysis (please refer to the following pdf file (http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/ISRU-III-99/pdf/8021.pdf)
http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/ISRU-III-99/pdf/8021.pdf
Parhadron
10-13-07, 03:54 PM
Sure, orbits, but travel is out of the question (my point).
It's robot time, again! I win.
Parhadron
10-13-07, 03:57 PM
Anyway, our sun dies and so does the AC system...surely one can store O2 for a long time...but why hold one's breath for it?
ROBOT TIME.
Sure, orbits, but travel is out of the question (my point).
It's robot time, again! I win.
orbits? or is that an attempt to write "robots"?
Anyways zirconia electrolysis...is just a technology.
Anyway, our sun dies and so does the AC system...surely one can store O2 for a long time...but why hold one's breath for it?
ROBOT TIME.
What? Since when is our sun the limit? There are many stars...we shall extinguish all their power for our own use. We shall use all the energy there is to gain.
Parhadron
10-13-07, 04:05 PM
I get it, you're a completely peaceful pod person who intends to wait for the robots to come back.
I get it, you're a completely peaceful pod person who intends to wait for the robots to come back.
what robots? this thread is about aerospace vehicles and their use to travel in Earth atmosphere and space.
Nikelodeon
10-13-07, 06:06 PM
aerospace vehicles and their use to travel in Earth atmosphere and space.
What an absurd idea.
What an absurd idea.
Absurd?
The existence of current aerospace vehicles, that's absurd?
Just look at the beauty of SpaceShipOne!
http://www.tranism.com/weblog/images/spaceshipone_01.jpg
Nikelodeon
10-13-07, 06:11 PM
Face looks great. Shame about the legs.
Face looks great. Shame about the legs.
This is the beauty in its true form. Thank Burt Rutan, the creator of the dream! :rolleyes:
http://www.silentthundermodels.com/special/images/spaceshipone5.jpg
http://apod.oa.uj.edu.pl/apod/image/0306/ssone_cap_car.jpg
Nikelodeon
10-13-07, 06:24 PM
The guy needs to stop thinking about sex and come up with something useful.
The guy needs to stop thinking about sex and come up with something useful.
:bugeye: huh? Burt Rutan was the designer behind SpaceShipOne...if you are seeing sexual acts behind the White Knight air vehicle module and the SpaceShipOne air-space vehicle module...than...emmmmm*....it is you who needs to stop thinking about sex. The reason SpaceShipOne (SSO) module is transported beneath White Knight module is because SSO needs to conserve its fuel for acceleration through almost air free environment of stratosphere and beyond Earth.
Nikelodeon
10-13-07, 07:08 PM
Can I take my pets?
http://mjt.nysv.org/scratch/weightless_cat.gif
Can I take my pets?
as long as you will pay for security insurance and weight of the extra mass.
Klippymitch
10-13-07, 10:17 PM
as long as you will pay for security insurance and weight of the extra mass.
Hey Dragon. What company do you work for and what do you do?
Do you/they have any other more futuristic ideas in the works?
Hey Dragon. What company do you work for and what do you do?
Do you/they have any other more futuristic ideas in the works?
I cannot tell you that.
Klippymitch
10-13-07, 10:24 PM
I cannot tell you that.
Okay.
But you do work in the space industry correct? That's I'll I really want to know.
Edit: Actually more Future designs would be cool as well. :D
Okay.
But you do work in the space industry correct? That's I'll I really want to know.
I am a student.
Parhadron
10-14-07, 01:55 PM
http://www.magicdragon.com/ComputerFutures/SpacePublications/STAR.html
http://www.pa.msu.edu/people/horvatin/Astronomy_Facts/nearest_stars.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nearest_stars
Klippymitch
10-15-07, 07:47 PM
I am a student.
What would level of accomplishments do you hope to see in our lifetime in the space field?
What would level of accomplishments do you hope to see in our lifetime in the space field?
Mars and moon travel in less than a year.
USS Exeter
10-17-07, 08:54 PM
Mars and moon travel in less than a year.
We should land on Mars first and see what will happen from that point.
USS Exeter
10-17-07, 08:59 PM
Our space travel is limited by the inefficiency of our rockets. In the future of aerospace, we will probably find a way to contain nuclear fusion, warp space time with it, and have space time move you to a different solar system. Humans will never travel faster than light, however who says you can't have the universe travel faster than light around you?
cosmictraveler
10-17-07, 09:15 PM
Our space travel is limited by the inefficiency of our rockets
It is also limited by the amounts of highly radioactive particles and other cosmic rays that can penetrate most anything. Those types of rays can damage your DNA and could cause mutations or worse. Until we can prevent those types of rays from entering into the space vehicle then humans shouldn't wander around the solar system at all. Is that what good science is all about, sending humans up up and away to see what kind of mutants they will produce? Not only will those rays cause mutations that could cause birth defects they can also start cancer and other types of diseases because of the alterations of the genes.
USS Exeter
10-17-07, 09:27 PM
What would be needed to wander around the solar system in a spacecraft would be to have a specialized room for the solar starms of cosmic radiation. Lead is what will protect your body and your reproductive organs from getting the zap. The problem with this is, how the hell do you send a room made of lead into space with our rockets and other means of inefficient "space vehicles."
cosmictraveler
10-17-07, 09:29 PM
HA, HA! You don't know much about cosmic rays do you? They can pass through the whole frikkin Earth in an instant! So how the heck can you stop them from going through a space vehicle?
USS Exeter
10-17-07, 09:48 PM
Opps, wrong element. Lead stops gamma, I forgot. You are right though. Wandering through space with 1000+ rads going in your ship and boiling your skin off isn't the way.
HA, HA! You don't know much about cosmic rays do you? They can pass through the whole frikkin Earth in an instant! So how the heck can you stop them from going through a space vehicle?
plastic coating around spaceships.
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/25aug_plasticspaceships.htm
USS Exeter
10-18-07, 09:47 PM
I knew there was something out there that could protect the astronauts from cosmic rays!
I knew there was something out there that could protect the astronauts from cosmic rays!
its their soul.
Nikelodeon
10-19-07, 02:15 AM
Soul cosmic ray deflection is a myth.
USS Exeter
10-21-07, 09:17 PM
its their soul.
Along with that plastic material.
also I saw somewhere that a laser beam can deflect radiation in that area of the beam.
USS Exeter
10-22-07, 07:06 PM
Sort of like Russia's plasma stealth?
Sort of like Russia's plasma stealth?
I wouldn't know anything of that.
cosmictraveler
10-22-07, 07:09 PM
also I saw somewhere that a laser beam can deflect radiation in that area of the beam.
"In the area of the beam"., that's interesting because a beam is only as wide as a pencil if that. So how does that little beam protect the entire ship because rays come from many directions at once. :shrug:
Nikelodeon
10-22-07, 07:10 PM
A really fat beam.
cosmictraveler
10-22-07, 07:12 PM
http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2005/25aug_plasticspaceships.htm
Looks like it really doesn't do that great of a job after all does it now? This is a quote from your link.
Plastic is an appealing alternative: Compared to aluminum, polyethylene is 50% better at shielding solar flares and 15% better for cosmic rays.
"In the area of the beam"., that's interesting because a beam is only as wide as a pencil if that. So how does that little beam protect the entire ship because rays come from many directions at once. :shrug:
it does not protect...I just mentioned it as a possible way to protect a specific small area of a spaceship that needs to have least radiation exposure.
USS Exeter
10-22-07, 07:17 PM
It could work, it is a primitive step for the quest to invent the anti-matter shield.
cosmictraveler
10-22-07, 07:18 PM
But again I ask if the beam is only pencil thin how can it protect an entire area the size of a room?
But again I ask if the beam is only pencil thin how can it protect an entire area the size of a room?
like I said...it does not. Unless you have many beams...but the E expenditure would be great. I think the best way to protect a spaceship from radiation is to set up magnetic field around spaceship by utilizing either coils or plasma....whichever.
Also an interesting thought here is that plasma magnetic fields can be increased by exposing it to laser beams.
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2005PhPl...12h3104H
It could work, it is a primitive step for the quest to invent the anti-matter shield.
anti-matter shield? what does this have to do with antimatter?
USS Exeter
10-22-07, 07:24 PM
Protecting a ship from radiation! Or from anything!
Protecting a ship from radiation! Or from anything!
protecting the ship from radiation...not from anything.
I have designed submarines using Lorentz Forces that works without propellers. The same thing can be uses inside our atmosphere using an elliptical design. However, I am not sure the same design can be used in vacuum without testing it. It should because Force creates the thrust.
If not I have a design using 220 Tesla propulsion system. It should interact with gravity, but without testing in space it is hard to say.
As to teleportation, I am working on it. :)
[COLOR="Blue"]
If not I have a design using 220 Tesla propulsion system. It should interact with gravity, but without testing in space it is hard to say.
if this system you made interacts with gravity...whats limiting you to test in on Earth with atmosphere? :shrug:
USS Exeter
10-23-07, 08:25 PM
I proposed an idea similar to that in my engineering class. It used charged particles to create the lorentz force that would allow particles around it to help the object manipulate gravity.
USS Exeter
10-23-07, 08:25 PM
if this system you made interacts with gravity...whats limiting you to test in on Earth with atmosphere? :shrug:
Supplies and the right technology.
I proposed an idea similar to that in my engineering class. It used charged particles to create the lorentz force that would allow particles around it to help the object manipulate gravity.
Lorentz force ... in order to be sufficient enough to cancel gravity force...needs to be soooooo hight. Can you imagine the magnetic field needed for such a device?!
I proposed an idea similar to that in my engineering class. It used charged particles to create the lorentz force that would allow particles around it to help the object manipulate gravity.
That was my Engineering project too and my submarine model worked. I got an A.
We already have submarines operational using this method (I suspect...wink!). We have the technology now to do it within the atmosphere. I am sure our government is testing it. It would be stupid not to, since the technology is simple and they have it since 1969.
As to high Tesla, the the coil blows up at high Tesla due to pressure/force exerted between turns. Need to find a different method to generate the field. Same field can be used as force field. I have some ideas....perhaps one of these days...
USS Exeter
10-23-07, 08:37 PM
Lorentz force ... in order to be sufficient enough to cancel gravity force...needs to be soooooo hight. Can you imagine the magnetic field needed for such a device?!
It would be very inefficent and difficult to do with our current technology, but I see the lorentz force as more of an option for space travel.
It would be very inefficent and difficult to do with our current technology, but I see the lorentz force as more of an option for space travel.
explain to me...I never did understand this...why cant ion engines using Lorentz force work on Earth?
USS Exeter
10-23-07, 08:42 PM
Unless I am mistaken, the earth's crust is not magnetically charged, so using the lorentz force is not a very efficient idea at the moment.
The surface transport needs two type of forces. Vertical force to take off and keep it at an altitude and horizontal force for propulsion. We can create both and move it. Using a computer, we can control the force (or current) the same way we can control current in an Aluminum or magnesium metal production.
All it needs is money and a place to build the model. However moving a large object to earth orbit may require energy levels that a small powerplant may not generate. Imagine the energy amount of a shuttle. Without serious calculation, it is hard to say, specially if the magnetic force acts against gravity in a different way.
Going to space is a whole different issue. It is not recommended without some strong force field surrounding the front of the craft.
Saquist
10-24-07, 02:49 PM
matter energy conversion through a stable wormhole would be nice....
But I think NASA is running backwards toward the future. Going back to space capsules and thick reentry armor is a bad idea. This will not indeer the public toward space travel and the public's opinion is important when we think about how much money we'll want to dump in the space agency in the future. NASA isn't commerical and they don't have a commerical mindset...
That may be the biggest grounder for the organization and I really do think it's time NASA works through the "blowing space shuttles up" phase before we go back to massive Energia and Saturn Five platforms...
The reason NASA is going backwards is that the place has been specialized to the nth degree. New innovation is like Blackswan - they need super generalist who can do many things.
No body including large companies look for Jack of all things these days. So, no new knowledge is formed.
weed_eater_guy
11-05-07, 09:00 PM
C'mon China, kick-start the next space-race already, will ya!
Honestly, I wonder if the shuttle is such a bad idea after all. Sure, it's the first of it's kind, and like anything 1st generation, it's going to have its bugs and downsides, and with a project as advanced as a shuttle the room for downsides was as large as it has actually become. However, a new, 2nd generation reusable vehicle could have vast improvements. I'm just a student in Aerospace engineering (in otherwords, I can't totally justify these statements and I have an idealistic edge), but here's what I think would be some pointers for a new manned, reusable vehicle for transfer of people/cargo to LEO:
-Use a higher-tolerance, overbuilt design that can take a beating and some wear and tear during reuse, with the goal to have a simple craft with as few maintenance requirements as possible, and thus lowering operating costs.
-Use heat shielding other than a tiled substance, either a single coat of some new material or a re-applyable ablative material such as a metal shell made of some common metal alloy on the bottom of the craft that can be removed in a single piece for recycling to be either a new shield or just scrap metal.
-If the vehicle requres boosters (likely), the boosters should be capable of somehow returning themselves to the launch facility with automatic pilot, perhaps by giving them small wings so they can land on a runway. The boosters should also have systems that can be used and refueled several times before maintenance is required, liquid or hybrid-fueled could work. This is in contrast to the shuttle's solid-rocket boosters that fall into the ocean (corrosive salt-water), need to be helicoptered out, shipped to ATK's plant to have them taken appart, put together again.. etc. etc. etc. after every single launch.
-Make a smaller vehicle with a cockpit that only holds maybe two or three people, but the vehicle would have a cargo bay large enough to render the vehicle economically viable as a satilite launch/recovery vehicle. The cargo bay should be built so it can also be locked shut semi-permanently, pressurized and climate controlled, so that passengers or a habitat/lab can reside in the cargo bay.
-The vehicle should contain enough onboard navigation systems of simple and reliable nature such that the vehicle can operate and plot trajectories with minimal or even no vehicle-specific ground-based-monitoring efforts, much like a modern aircraft.
Dunno, just my thoughts. In all likelyhood a design study would show a vehicle like this would be pretty heavy for it's size and require boosters that would use fuel at unfeasible levels for any profitable commercial use. But hey, just some ideas :D
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