A Common Pattern: Obscessive Compusive Rational Thinking

TruthSeeker · Apr 21, 2002

Let's analize a common Psychological disorder that we have in our modern Society: The Obscessive Compulsive Rational Thinking Pattern.

The Obscessive Compulsive Rational Thinking Pattern

We live in an Universe where most of it is unknown to us. We try to explain it rationally, but even our vocabulary is limited to our knowledge, as when we discover something "new", we have to name it and make it rationally discussable.

What our society nowdays is creating is people that can't let go ideas, as they base their entire life in their rational beliefs. When a Theory falls and other come we can see a huge makority of people against it and a little group of people in favor. That's because most of people are used and familiar with the old ideas.

That's the pattern of the scared child. It's a pattern of behaviour created by our need of a solid base to our reality. We nurture this base and defend it against other people, other beliefs. This reality is completly necessary to give a sense of comfort and peace of mind and spirit.

When you show to someone who has this pattern a new idea, they attack you in order to defend their reality. For if they lose it, they lose their peace, their comfort. The way they do this is our modern society is by Obscessive Compulsive Rational Thinking. That's because in this way they can always "see what's around". They have a base that they can easily experience to their beliefs. That's the base of reason and rational thinking: Immediate proof.

Then, they get scared to explore the unknow. They don't give up on their ideas, as they are really comfortable with it.

We can see this pattern everywhere. People nowdays need to see to believe because they are afraid of being harmed. Where does this fear come from? It possibly comes from other patterns generated long time ago in their families and passed to each other. Another possibility is that it comes from our consumist society, where material things are more important. It's a very common pattern in our society.

Love,
Nelson

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James R · Apr 21, 2002

Alert! Irrational, muddy thinking epidemic!

Let's analyse a common mode of thinking common to pseudoscientists, new agers, hippy UFO freaks and charlatans the world over: irrational, muddy thinking.

The "Hope Springs Eternal" irrational, muddy thinking pattern:

We live in a universe which is big and scary. A lot of stuff we don't know, and are only just starting to get a handle on thanks to a wonderful mode of thinking called the scientific method.

Our modern society contains people that have bravely dispensed with the superstitious beliefs of the past and embraced the scientific method as perhaps the only reliable method for gaining real knowledge. On the other hand, there are those who are afraid to look at reality. Instead, they prefer to live in a fantasy land, usually with themselves as the most important feature. They think humans are different from animals - special. They think (some) humans have mystical powers, or a direct line to God. It makes them feel important. It absolves them from taking responsibility for their own actions. It is a comfort to believe that there is nothing out there truly bigger than oneself.

Unfortunately, that is a delusion. It's the pattern of the scared child. It's a pattern of behaviour created by the human need to feel special and be loved. Thus, beliefs are defended even when repeatedly shown to have no rational basis. They are necessary (for these people) to give a sense of comfort and peace of mind.

When you show to someone who has this pattern a new idea, they attack you in order to defend their reality. For if they lose it, they lose their peace, their comfort. The way they do this in our modern society is by clinging to irrationality like a sailor cluching at the last beam of a sinking ship. They have a base that they can easily experience to their beliefs. The base is: Immediate absolute knowledge - you just know the truth from within - because you're convinced you're special.

These people are scared to face reality. They don't give up on their ideas, as they are really comfortable with them.

Unfortunately, we can see this pattern everywhere. People nowdays (as always) want to believe because they are afraid of being harmed. Where does this fear come from? It possibly comes from other patterns generated long time ago in their families and passed to each other as superstitions usually are.

The solution to this is education. We must educate our children to think critically and rationally about all ideas. They should demand evidence before an idea is accepted as fact. They should be taught to be wary of things which we as humans would so like to be true but which may not be.

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Xev · Apr 21, 2002

Ah, I looove the smell of flame-bait in the morning!

Nelson, I'm dissapointed. Are your beliefs really that weak that you need to resort to ad hominem and posting flame-bait? Come on, boy, you can do better.

I dare you to read this:

Judging the Credibility of Extraordinary Claims
The following principles and questions are helpful when judging the credibility of extraordinary claims, or when thinking objectively about one's own arguments and conclusions:

Actual existence of a phenomenon: Is it possible to scientifically prove or make probable that the purported phenomenon actually exists? Remember: Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

Testability: Is the claim testable at all? If not, the claim is probably mere speculation or fantasy. (An exception to this could be, say, a UFO encounter. The lack of testability does not necessarily imply that the claim is unfounded.) Furthermore, if the claim is testable, is it actually tested? And if it is tested, which methods were used? Are the results reproducible in a way that makes them statistically significant? Is there a complete (i.e. trustworthy) documentation available to the public?

The burden of proof lies upon the claimant, whereas the doubter has no obligation to disprove anything. Not only should the claimant attempt to prove his or her hypothesis. Supposing (s)he wants to achieve just respectablility, (s)he also has the obligation to try to disprove the hypothesis. This is one of the scientist's primary tasks; to try to falsify his or her hypotheses. How else would (s)he rightly rule out alternative explanations?

Occams razor: of two logical explanations, the one based on the least number of unfounded presumptions is to prefer - until, perhaps, further evidence changes the premises. Occam's razor doesn't posit that the simplest explanation is to prefer, which is a misunderstanding sometimes used by naive creationists to say that genesis is superior to evolution due to the former's simplicity alone. Note also that an explanation, however logical, can be totally worthless if the premises are false or unfounded.

B happened after A, hence A caused B. This kind of reasoning is called post hoc, ergo propter hoc reasoning. An illustrative example is the following arguments: "I ate sushi yesterday and today I'm sick!", or "Before this party seized the nation's political power, there was no poverty and the economy prospered!". I have omitted the conclusions, since they are often understated in such claims. The obvious conclusions are, however, logically false. Conclusions such as if A implies B and B is true, then A is true, is a common variety of the above. Implication is not equivalent to equivalence. If this medicine helps me, then I will get healed. I am healed. Thus it was the medicine that helped! (Not to speak about explanations of miracles...) The following paragraph describes a similar misunderstanding of causality.

Causation and correlation are not equivalent! There may be a nearly perfect correlation between human natality and the arrival of storks in the spring, but, of course, that doesn't make storks the actual cause of increases in birth rates! However obvious this may seem, the difference between causation and correlation is often neglected. For example, Trancendental Meditation advocates argue that their activities reduce crime rates in whole cities by telepathically inducing positive vibrations/energies in the rest of the population. Supposing there actually is a significant correlation supporting their claims, other causes may still be responsible for the effects. Could it even be that the TM:ers themselves were the ones who caused high crime rates, before they became preoccupied with meditation and levitation? Probably not, but the question should make obvious that a good correlation alone means very little, especially when it comes to extraordinary claims. (In the TM case, the alledged positive correlations themselves have lacked support by official statistics, but that's another matter!) In instances of highly questionable nature, the best a good correlation can accomplish is to awaken interest and goad further investigation.

"I believe in X because it is not disproved!" Really? Then you should believe in Santa Claus, too. And dragons, and ghosts, and time-travelling machines... They're not disproved either.
Click to expand...

http://www.lysator.liu.se/~rasmus/skepticism/skeptic.html

Do you think you can subject your beliefs to these criteria? I know you can, it is simply a matter of being willing to take the chance that your ideas are wrong.

Who is scared, Nelson?

Sushi!,
Xev

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Tyler · Apr 22, 2002

Um....Nelson......

you just described religion.

Xev · Apr 22, 2002

Tyler:

Er, except for the 'rational' part, yeah.

TruthSeeker · Apr 22, 2002

Posted by James R:

The solution to this is education. We must educate our children to think critically and rationally about all ideas. They should demand evidence before an idea is accepted as fact. They should be taught to be wary of things which we as humans would so like to be true but which may not be.
Click to expand...

This would ultimatly result in the destruction of humanity...
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:bugeye:

Xev,

Who is scared, Nelson?
Click to expand...

Do you think I'm scared...?

...hehehe!!!
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Tyler,

you just described religion.
Click to expand...

No. I described what happen in a society that worship the brain instead of the Heart...
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:bugeye:
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:bugeye:

Love,
Nelson

James R · Apr 22, 2002

Dare I ask why, Truthseeker?

TruthSeeker · Apr 23, 2002

James R,

Excess ultimatly causes destruction...

Love,
Nelson

(Q) · Apr 23, 2002

Excess ultimatly causes destruction...

What does excess have to do with education? That said, why are you in school?

Xev · Apr 23, 2002

Welcome to the club of obsessive-compulsive rationalists, Q.

There's brandy, vodka, rum and tequila in the cupbord and daquiri mix in the blender. Hope you brought swim trunks, but please no cannonballs into the pool when the Playboy bunnies are frolicking. We'll be sacrificing a virgin* in Dr.Sagan's honor about midnight...
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*One we caught talking on their cell-phone while driving an SUV, so it's not like it's unethical.

TruthSeeker · Apr 23, 2002

What does excess have to do with education? That said, why are you in school?
Click to expand...

Oh God...

I was talking about RATIONALISM!!!!!! :bugeye:
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:bugeye:

(Q) · Apr 23, 2002

Swim trunks and frolicking Playboy bunnies should never be used in the same sentence.

Make mine a scotch.

(Q) · Apr 23, 2002

OK, what does rationalism have to do with excess?

Why are you in school? This question is mandatory.

Xev · Apr 23, 2002

*Hands the Q a scotch*

Nelson, what are you doing here?! You are not a rationalist!

Those who invalidate reason ought seriously to consider whether they argue against reason
with or without reason; if with reason, then they establish the principle that they are laboring to
dethrone: but if they argue without reason (which, in order to be consistent with themselves they
must do), they are out of reach of rational conviction, nor do they deserve a rational argument.
[Ethan Allen] (1738-1789)
Click to expand...

And stay away from the Bunnies! Shoo! Shoo!

*Wanders off to make a daquiri and hit on other obsessive-compulsive rationalists*

(Q) · Apr 23, 2002

*Hands the Q a scotch*

Sooooooo Xev, what's a nice place like this doing to a girl like you?

Xev · Apr 23, 2002

Utterly corrupting my sweet, innocent nature. And helping me relax before finals.

(Q) · Apr 23, 2002

Utterly corrupting my sweet, innocent nature.

Ahhhhh, a girl after my own heart.

btw - are you one of the bunnys?

TruthSeeker · Apr 23, 2002

(Q),

Swim trunks and frolicking Playboy bunnies should never be used in the same sentence.
Click to expand...

Why...? It seems interesting...
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OK, what does rationalism have to do with excess?

Why are you in school? This question is mandatory.
Click to expand...

Rationalism can create excessive thinking detroying the peace of mind and ultimatly making someone go mad... :bugeye:

For rationalists... thirsty for some EVIDENCE...

Love,
Nelson

(Q) · Apr 23, 2002

Rationalism can create excessive thinking detroying the peace of mind and ultimatly making someone go mad...

I suppose thinking could look like a daunting task to those not familiar. Going "mad" is simply a state of mind for the rational that take the irrational too seriously.

Why are you in school? Stop avoiding the question.

For rationalists... thirsty for some EVIDENCE

Yes, thank you, we've all seen your new thread. Bravo !
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Which, by the way, contradicts your other thread where stated you weren't going to post more threads because you couldn't keep up and only had one hour of posting per day. Really pathetic. Your insatiable need for negative attention grows by the minute.... hour.... day.... ???

Xev · Apr 23, 2002

Q: Sadly, tragically, no. Xev looks rather like 'Velma' from 'Scooby-Doo'.

This does not stop her from shedding the sweater for the evening to cavort about in a cocktail dress.

Nelson:

Rationalism can create excessive thinking detroying the peace of mind and ultimatly making someone go mad...
Click to expand...

Oh dear, will rationalism give us hairy palms too?

How can thinking be excessive?

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A Common Pattern: Obscessive Compusive Rational Thinking

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