Discrimination Against Men

Discussion in 'Free Thoughts' started by Orleander, Jul 13, 2007.

  1. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Do you think he's an idiot or do you agree with him?
    I know my college friends and I went to a strip club in town because our drinks were practically free. We wouldn't have gone there otherwise.


    SUIT VS. LADIES' NIGHTS

    July 13, 2007 -- A Manhattan lawyer has filed a class-action suit against some of New York's most sizzling hot spots, such as Copacabana and China Club, claiming their ladies' nights discriminate against men.

    Attorney Roy Den Hollander says that by offering lower - or no - admission fees and shorter waiting times behind the velvet rope, the clubs violate the 14th Amendment's guarantee of equal protection under the law.

    His suit seeks an end to the practice of admitting women at a lower price than men.

    The clubs that Hollander accuses of "invidious discrimination" against men are the Copacabana Nightclub, China Club, A.E.R. Nightclub and Sol.

    The legal eagle says he visited each of the clubs on nights when they offered women free or reduced fees and shorter waiting periods to get in - things that were not available to men.

    "It's either more money, more time or more burdensome," he told The National Law Journal of the problems men face in trying to gain admission to the tony clubs.

    Hollander filed his suit in Manhattan federal court, which in 1970 ruled that McSorley's Old Ale House discriminated against women by refusing to serve them.

    He plans to use that case as a model.

    He admits he is facing an uphill battle, saying that in the past, the U.S. Supreme Court has given preferential treatment to women when it comes to economic discrimination.

    "Whether this case succeeds or fails, it will result in a much-needed victory for men," he told the Law Journal. "If I win then all the nightclubs have to follow."

    Tim Gleason, the general manager of the China Club - whose guest list has included Derek Jeter and Bruce Springsteen - dismissed the suit as ridiculous.

    He said the club does offer ladies' nights, but often they are the work of outside promoters.

    Hollander says the hot spots are responsible because the promoters serve as agents of the clubs.

    Hollander is not the first to bring such a suit.

    Last month, the California Supreme Court ruled against a Los Angeles nightclub that refused to provide four men the same ladies' night discounts available to women.

    In 2004, a New Jersey Division of Civil Rights ruling declared that ladies' nights violated state discrimination laws. The state then passed a law legalizing the practice.
     
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  3. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    From a raw, technical standpoint, it is discrimination of men, BUT I can easily see the reason why they have ladies nights like that. It's to attract more women and to 'discourage' every tom, dick and harry from coming to ladies nights, effectively turning those evenings into sausage parties.
    I personally think they need to open some ladies only clubs since women STILL don't realize that even when they go out with their friends, guys are going to hit on them, yet they go out anyway and bitch and whine when a bunch of jackasses to try to talk to them. That way, ladies can have their ladies night out at a ladies only club w/o having to worry about some guy hitting on them.
     
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  5. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    I quickly learned to never take a drink from a guy. They get all pissy whiney when you don't leave the bar with them. (Maybe that's only cowboys??)

    And I've never known Ladies Night to be Ladies Only Night. We just got cheaper drinks and no cover charge.
     
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  7. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    It is discrimination - just look at how quickly the "Gentlemen Only" snugs in a pub got opened up due to them being discriminatory.
    If it were the other way round - shorter queues and reduced fees for men there'd be a huge outcry.
     
  8. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    You're right about that. I wasn't incinuating that it was ladies only night. I was merely suggesting that there should be ladies only bars, or now that you mention it, have a ladies only night.
    I think the ladies only night or ladies only club would eliminate the situation of you taking drink from a guy and them getting all pissy when you don't leave the bar with them.
    That's the difference, even when guys have a 'guys night out', they would still hook up with a girl if they had the chance. Girls, if they have a girls night out, their guard is up and they really don't want to hook up with anyone. Fair enough. If they went to a girls only bar or a ladies night only, then they wouldn't have to be bothered by men; but I almost guarantee that they wouldn't even be happy with that because they wouldn't be able to dress up like prostitutes and flaunt their stuff in front of guys that they wouldn't give the time of day to anyway.
     
  9. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    OMG! Do you really think we dress up for you?! We dress up to show other women "I am prettier than you and watch how much attention I can get". I don't think there has ever been a man who noticed that I look best in earth tones. No man has ever told me "Those are nice shoes" or "I love how you curled your hair". If I wanted to impress a man with what I was wearing, I'd show up naked. lol Oh, maybe you're right.

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    And if I wanted a ladies only bar I'd go to the local lesbain bar. And they are worse than men.

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    They have no fear of rejection.
     
  10. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Been on many girls' nights out Mike?
    In my experience it's the opposite (or maybe just a difference between the UK and elsewhere).
    On a girls' night out they're hunting in packs...

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  11. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Nope, you're right. Otherwise we would just sit at home and drink.
    Mike, sorry, but you were probably getting shot down with that lame excuse from them.

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  12. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    You just contradicted yourself there. 'Watch how much attention I can get'
    ...attention from WHO???


    I'm going to be the 'jerk's' advocate here and say that most men (smart ones anyway) know that those types of compliments don't get any points with women. I guarantee you that if compliments like that guaranteed getting a phone number, date or a romp in the sack, they would be given out more often.


    I don't think that would necessarily be the best idea; especially considering all the blouses for women with the shoulder pads, the push up bras, pantyhose. Showing up naked would reveal all the flaws that that clothing covers up!

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    Not always but I am where this is concerned.

    What's wrong with having no fear of rejection?
    You do know that in order for a man to get a good woman, he has to overcome his fear of rejection, since a man will on average get shot down 80-90% of the time.
     
  13. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    No but I've been on plenty of guys' nights out and watched how girls in groups acted. Yes, if the group of girls are in a circle talking mostly amongst themselves, then their guard is up and they will be hard to crack, albeit not impossible. If they are also dancing in a 'closed' group, same thing.
    How old are you Oli? If you're from the UK, how can you make assumptions about how American women behave?
     
  14. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    What lame excuse? You don't have to even speak to a girl to know what she's up to. You do realize that there are some guys out there that do actually read body language, don't you?
    And as for lame excuses, those can be sniffed out before she's even through with the sentence. Women think they are good liars, but they aren't. You just have to know what to watch out for.
    So you're trying to tell me that you want to hook up with a dude the next time you go out on a girls night out?
     
  15. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    And I go on girls' nights out.
    It's hilarious.

    Their guard is up because they are the ones hunting, they do the picking and choosing.

    Is that relevant?
    It's on my profile...
    51.

    I didn't make assumptions, note my words: "(or maybe just a difference between the UK and elsewhere)".
     
  16. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    ????

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    ???
    Wow!
    Where does that happen?
     
  17. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    I have female friends that tell me about their girls night out. I would be inclined to agree with you.


    Their guard is also up because they have a bunch of drunk toms, dicks and harrys coming up to them and hitting on them.
    Women do the picking and choosing because desperate guys give them that power. I guarantee you that if guys stopped hitting on or talking to women in bars to hook up, womens' attitudes would change.


    In the U.S. If the ratio is that much better in the UK, I'm in the wrong country.
    Example, take a pretty girl, she's going on a girls' night out, she gets hit on by say, 20 guys that night, unless she's just a total whore, she's going to turn down at least 15 of them. Of the other five that she gives her number to, she MIGHT actually agree to go out on a date with two or three of them. Out of those three, one might make it past the first date.
    Now, let's say a decent looking guy asks 20 women out (in any situation), he might get 5 numbers. The remaining 15 (or more) would probably tell him they have a b/f (whether they do or not). Out of those 5 numbers 2 or 3 might call him back and agree to a date.
    Women in the U.S. I feel have become a bit snooty and bitchy. It sort of parallels the same idea that Americans have become fat, lazy and arrogant. But I'm not trying to turn this into a woman behavior bashing thread. I'll stay on topic.
     
  18. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    And women tend to be much "worse" than men in their comments.

    Not so here.
    They're doing the choosing and that's their attitude.
    Anyone trying to pick them up either gets steamrollered as she makes a move on the guy she likes or finds himself with her tongue halfway down his throat before he's got past "Excuse me, I was wondering..."

    Nah, they're extremely predatory over here - they know what they want and they go for it.

    Personal experience would dictate you are, but maybe it's just me: I do the rejecting - five or more per night out.

    Women WAIT to be given phone numbers over there?
    OMFG!
    I've lost track of the number of women that walk up to me and their first words are "You NEED my phone number".

    Or maybe they don't like to let the men know (or know themselves) they actually want to hook up.
     
  19. Xerxes asdfghjkl Valued Senior Member

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    Maybe men in the UK are better?

    I look at what the women here have to choose from and think "I'm so glad I'm not a woman!"
     
  20. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Well, there's me here...

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  21. mikenostic Stop pretending you're smart! Registered Senior Member

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    Unless she's stinkin hot, I would have to push the girl off me. Just because she owns a vagina, doesn't give her carte blanche access to do whatever she wants (well, maybe with weak-minded men).
    If she wants to be in control that bad, she can pull her tongue out of my throat and go find the next guy to be her bitch. And like American men, if the British men just sit back and allow this to happen, women will keep doing it.
    I'm kinda like you Oli. I have no problem turning a girl down (but then again, the ones here that seem to like me are the fat ones that have children). Haha.

    You hit the nail right on the head there. A lot of American women are spoiled in that sense. But I also think that the desperate, spineless men here have given them that power.
     
  22. Orleander OH JOY!!!! Valued Senior Member

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    Yes they have. I want a man, not a pet.
     
  23. Oli Heute der Enteteich... Registered Senior Member

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    Reverse the sexes in that sentence and you'll see what women have had to put up with...

    Nah, it's not about control (except of their own lives) - it's about "He's hot, why should I wait for him to ask me?".
    They know when they're interested in a guy and don't see why they should play "Oh, I'm a female so I have to be seduced or tricked into having sex".
     

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