Hello again. I'm just wondering if anyone can find any problems with atheism? Do you think it leads to more murders, rapes, wars, masturbation, impure thoughts about your sister, lawyers, or other evil nasty things? If so, how?
EGAD! Hopefully not all three at once! Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! I didn't make smart-ass, non-contributive posts before I became an athiest. QED. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!
The problem with thiests.... The problem with thiest is that they believe one becomes amoral after deciding to be athiest. This is far from truth. Most of your harden criminals happen to be thiests, rapists, incest, murderers, usurpers, etc.. is all learnt reading the bible. After one decides to become an athiest, one does not drop being moral, if you were a criminal minded individual before hand, more than likely you probably would still be criminal minded. The decision does not change you, in this aspect. It does on some, it's really up to the individual. BTW.. you don't hear of some athiest leader molesting children? do you?.
Impure thoughts about lawyers? eeugh Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Still, I suppose that if the entire race followed one religion, in a zealous manner then the primary values of that religion would be the primary values of the entire race. But the world is not united under one religion, so I don't think that atheism contributes to problems in any significant way.
The problem with atheism... ...is that atheism is still connected to religion. One must deny the existence of gods to be atheist. What about if one never gives it a thought?
Q This is something I mentioned briefly in another thread. There are very few religious people around here, and I was raised in an absolute absence of religion. To me, it was never anything more than a topic of occasional study. So, I am and always have been an atheist (a=not, theistic=religious). There was never any denial of deities or anything involved. However, it does seem to me that particularly in places where religion is more prevalent, atheism is an active rejection. I think the choice to reject religion and describe one's self as an atheist is quite different to never having been involved in religion in the first place (like me). The end result of the two types of atheist may be similar, but there does still seem a difference to me. The atheists who actively reject old beliefs or whatever seem, to me, somewhat petulant, like kids rejecting the authority of their parents and going out after curfew. Not that I have a problem with people abandoning religion - I wish more people would - but they do seem to carry that attitude about religions. And then there are those like me who never had any contact with religion except as a mild curiousity while wandering about libraries. I think I am able, due to my past, to look at religion and other topics quite objectively, without the burden of the attitude I mentioned previously. This objectivity can, unfortunately, lead to those with that petulant attitude calling me a "soulless bastard". However, I do think that the clearest perspective is always held by those with no emotional involvement in an issue, and I'm quite happy with my position on these matters.
Adam, The vast majority of atheists who have declared themselves atheistic have chosen such a path because of a deliberate conscious decision. The decision making process provides a significant insight into the mind of an atheist. To deliberately choose to be atheist indicates that the issues of theism have been considered and rejected. But why reject something when the majority of the world population seems to openly accept theism? To go against the perceived grain also requires significant conviction and real a degree of courage. The underlying basis of the rejection is that theism has no rational basis; it simply doesn’t make sense when there isn’t a scrap of evidence to support the claims. For any truly logical and rational thinking person no other conclusion can be reached since reason and logic depend on evidence, and when evidence is lacking for a claim then the claim has no value. The conclusion here is that the typical atheist has the capability to think clearly, rationally, and logically. It follows then that if such people have the courage of their convictions in one area, theism, then it is likely they can also operate rationally when considering other aspects of the world. Murdering, raping, warring, are all aspects of this world that detract from the value of life and are inherently irrational and are far less likely to be embraced by rational thinkers such as atheists. Masturbation has been listed here as I suspect many erroneously see this practice as a guilt trip, and certainly as far as Christianity is concerned it is a sin. Masturbation is universally practiced and is a healthy release from stress and is of course very pleasurable. And for many single people it is a natural outlet for their evolved biological natural desires. Unfortunately those that believe their god might be watching and frowning causes significant psychosis, feelings of guilt, and anxiety. Do we wonder that so many religious fanatics appear to be so stressed out and that so many Catholic priests can become so deranged? Masturbation is a good thing – enjoy it. Atheism is the next logical step in the evolution of mankind as science and technology increase our knowledge base and remove ignorance and superstition from the world. Atheism should be wholeheartedly and openly encouraged and supported. Cris
Godless Look, like i've said before pedifiles go where ever they can get acess to children There were (hope theres not now) lots of pedifiles in schools and in the scout movement Both organisations are not tarnished by this but you tarnish ALL catholic priests which offends me. Not because im catholic but because the priests i know are ONLY priests in order to help people and are wonderfuly caring men.
Then one might (if one so desires) take up the label of "Thoughtless." Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! But we do think, and I think... that I know where you're coming from, Q, and it ain't a bad place to be. At least some of the time. Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! CB
Not here. Here, religion has been on the decline since maybe the 50s or so. I personally know two christians and one buddhist. The buddhist is an aunt. The entire family apart from her never had anything to do with any religion. It would be a conscious decision to move toward religion, as our natural state is to be completely without it.
Asguard, Maybe I've overlooked something, but I don't see where Godless has specifically named Catholic priests as a threat. He may think they are, (dunno), but he has not actually said it here. At any rate, anything is only an insult if you allow it to be. We do have a choice about how we handle hearing things we don't agree with. As soon as you have allowed someone the power to insult you, you have allowed yourself to be defeated. Food for thought. (And "food for thought" means you're not being attacked; this is a bit of friendly, albeit unsolicited, advice.) CB
Asguard, While many priests are guilty of these crimes I did not imply that ALL priests are guilty. However, ALL catholic priests are now definitely tarnished with the knowledge that their particular profession is far from perfect. Unlike other professions in which sex offenders might work, priests are expected to be above such things especially when the church has so much dogma against sexual activities. Priests also consider themselves to have been ‘called’ by God, i.e. have been divinely selected. Clearly that claim must now be viewed with significant skepticism. Every Catholic priest is part of a group that specifically holds views on the sins of sex and the group must be able at least to practice what they preach. They even go so far as to deny themselves sexual pleasures because they are ‘meant to be’ ‘married’ to God. In short, as an institution they have put themselves above everyone else. While I am sure many of them are wonderful compassionate people they must ALL bear a collective responsibility for the institution that they support. And when their superiors cover up illegal activities then the only real conclusion is that the whole institution is massively hypocritical. I don’t know any Catholic priests and I am sure that if I ever meet one I will always wonder if they are perverted. Enforced celibacy because of any reason other than a voluntary choice because one wants to be celibate must necessarily create serious mental and physiological challenges – i.e. the choice goes against strong evolutionary influences. Combine that with the now open evidence that many priests cannot cope with sexual issues must give us cause to suspect every priest. I have no sympathy for a group that sets themselves up to be perfect and representatives of an alleged all powerful god and then we find that are very fallible. They only have themselves, as an institution, to blame for their failure. Cris
Adam, Unless you have disconnected yourself from the world, have never watched TV, or listened to the radio, etc, then you must be fully aware that religions exist and what they offer, right? Since you are on the Internet then I know you are not a hermit. Unless you are a moron (and I know from your posts that you are not) you are fully aware of what religion and theism is offering. And since you have not been attracted to their offerings you must have consciously rejected them. IOW words you have consciously selected to be an atheist because of your ability to reason. I think you will also agree with me that there must be other people in your country who also may not have been directly exposed to religion but are also aware of the offerings, but unlike you, have actively pursued such interests because they have been attracted to the ideas of the supernatural. Agreed? Their choice represents a different type of thinking to you. Now I will admit I have been in a similar position to you since I have spent most of my life living in the UK where religion has been in significant decline for the past 4 decades. It has only been while I have lived in the USA (since 1996) that I have been made aware of the significance that religion plays here and the importance of defending against such parasitic tentacles – and that means a more active form of atheism than I suspect I would ever have supported in the UK where it isn’t needed so much. But I believe, as an intelligent and informed person, you have made a positive decision to reject theism. Agreed? Cris
I don't see it as an active rejection. That would be like saying I rejected being a gynocologist because I'm not currently a gynocologist, even though I have indeed heard of them and know what they do. I was born without religion, never even had a vague notion of getting into one, and so never had such a notion to actively reject. The same as I never rejected the idea of becoming a gynocologist. I was born not-a-gynocologist, but since then have heard of them and what they do. It simply never entered the picture. But this I suppose is just my way of looking at things, which I know is not the same for others.
Jan, Nice post - a wonderfully juicy set of irrationality. I’ve missed you. Having ignorance of something that doesn’t exist can’t be bad. It saves times examining irrelevant mythologies. Please name an atheistic institution that claims to be religious. I’m not sure what you mean here. This is the essential essence of extreme religious narrow-mindedness; the complete rejection of the concept that someone might possibly disagree with their single blinkered narrow view. The arrogant idea that the religionist must be right and everyone else is wrong. Or IOW the complete lack of tolerance. I dunno, Mickey Mouse is pretty famous, and probably more popular. When one is attacked it is normal to defend oneself. The parasitic and insidious nature of evangelical intrusions like Christianity naturally cause strong defensive reactions, at least by rational people who value their freedom and their minds. Like an attack of termites inaction results in chaos and destruction. A deep understanding of the enemy of religion is quite vital if the human race is going to evolve into something more rational and worthwhile. The unfortunate waste of time we must spend fighting against the irrational fantasies of religious fanaticism, could have been much better used in pursuit of real knowledge through scientific research. Once again we see the disease of religion weakening the fabric of humanity in the hope of asserting its evil power. Hmmm, Adam, I think you are being called an idiot. Fortunately as scientific knowledge and better education spread throughout the world, the religious institutions strive desperately to evolve into something acceptable. Their struggle is futile since they are clearly entering the throes of their own destruction and death. We can only hope their screams won’t last long. If I could I would quickly end their suffering. And, Adam, here we see the inevitable attempt at unsolicited conversion; the subtle beginnings of religious indoctrination. If you are not fully aware of the dangers of religion and make an effort to defend yourself you may well succumb to their insidious evil. Cris
>>You’ve hit the nail on the head Adam, atheism is ignore-ance of Spirituality, nothing more.<< and >>What people are rejecting are the ‘atheistic’ institutions who place themselves under the banner of religion, who, because they do not serve God according to the correct rules and regulation, are devoid of God. ‘Atheist’ is a description of ones spiritual state, which is ‘devoid of God.<< While you are free to make any assumptions about some sort of "god" figure, not everyone believes that either of these two things ( That being "god" and "spirituality" ) have never existed, and do not exist. Secondly, I question your use of the words "Correctly". What exactly, is, pray-tell, the 'correct' way to be with God? Your way? Doesn't that strike you as a tad presumptious? >>That is because deep down nobody rejects God, wholly, they’re just letting off steam, it may last moments or lifetimes, but eventually, if they are fortunate, they may get a chance to serve Him.<< Now thats just arrogant of you to presume that, don't you think Jan? How do you know why it is that I rejected God? I don't believe you can, seeing as we've never spoken before, nor have ever met. You barely know the slightest thing about it, and yet you feel you can speak for me? I could argue that the reason Chrisitans embrace is because they refuse to look at themselves positively. And because of this, they require an external source for their value. Now of course, thats presumptions of me, don't you think? >>If that was not the case, they or yourself wouldn’t spend so much of your life thinking about Him. Admit it, whether or not you believe He exists, He is the greatest personality in this world, certainly the most famous. Only a complete idiot would not be at least curious.<< I would hardley dub the God of the Bible the 'greatest personality' in the world. I have more respect for a rabid dog than I do that Ogre in the Bible. Atleast the dog is honest with me for what it is. The God of the Bible condoned and commanded countless atrocities, and then tried to justify it as pure. Of course, when one realizes that such a God is a myth, and nothing more, he finds no reason to be angry. I don't get upset because of something Zeus did back in Greece, do I? Of course not! He never existed! And neither did God. And IF God does exist, he's shown a very poor effort on the part of a supreme being to reveal himself to me, or anyone. I would expect more from such an entity. However, if you have some evidence, some proof that God does infact exist, then please, do share it with us "ignore-ant" people, hmm? >>You are alive! Therefore you are a soul!!<< I won the Florida Lottery! Therefore, it must be true! Sorry, but Uncle Sam requires me to acually show some proof. In this case, so do you.
Case Study: Lets call him Adam. Adam grows up in an environment in which the concept of religion and gods never came to light. Adam became a well educated, critical, logical, rational thinker. One day he is approached with a theory. The theory is that the universe was created by an omnipotent being; a god. Adam looks at the theory and his first question is, "Where's the evidence?" The theorist cannot provide evidence and Adam simply places the theory alongside many others and does not give it another thought. He will, of course, add validity to the theory if any evidence becomes available, however, at this time, he thinks nothing more about it. Is Adam an atheist?
