Ignorance is bliss?

[Tyler]

Eventually you get to a point in life (or I have, as well as 2 friends of mine) where you start to question intelligence. A depressing moment in life hits and you begin to realize you think too much.

I began to realize a couple things. One, school is a waste of time. Sitting around and doing nothing all day.

Two, weekdays are just the boring time in between weekends (this sounds like a common knowledge thing, but you're not actually depressed over it until you start counting every minute of the day).

Three, it's possible that I'm (a) not as smart as everyone thinks I are and (more scary) (b) not as smart as I think I am.

Four, it's possible that I'm really quite stupid.

Five, I'm a useless part of society, and always will be.

Six, I will never make an impact on society.

Seven, I started to realize all the faults in society.


Eventually I came to the conclusion that all these things which depressed me (along with some other things not mentioned) I have only realized because of the current level of intelligence I have. I realize that if I was completely ignorant and dumb I would never have reached these realizations. But would that be better?


So I ask, to you, which is better; pain and intelligence or ignorance and bliss?

[Bebelina]

Why not bliss and intelligence? Is it an impossible match, you think?
Maybe you are indeed not smart enough...;)..just kidding..really.
Almost everybody has periods when everything seems hopeless, and then by flattering your ego you feel better, but that´s ok, but not necessary.
I don´t think happines is a matter of ignorance, just a matter of capability to focus on the creative and positive aspects in live, instead of the opposite. Instead of thinking of what you can´t do, think of what you can do. :) Use your intelligence to that.

[Merlijn]

Hmm I recognize something here!

Eventually ignorance isn't bliss. But (at the age of 27) I have not yet overcome the doubt completely. Maybe it will stay.

One may think: at least you don't have to go to school any more.
But- I became a teacher. Hahahaha :)

I hope to achieve that the most intelligent students need not feel that way about school. I try to challenge them, in stead of making them numb.

[Merlijn]

thanks Bebelina. I am glad we can always count on you and your optimism. :) I love you.
(You posted when I was still typing.)

Merlijn

[Bebelina]

Well, thank you Merlijn. :D I didn´t know that you had become a teacher, did the boutique job finally ended?
What do you teach then? :)
And no, the doubts never end....so does that make....no...:p
I guess ignorance can be bliss, but then intelligence and bliss is even better!

[Tyler]

Acceptance is the point you reach when intelligence (or whatever my intellectual state would be - you decide) and existence can exist in one. At least, 'acceptance' is what I called it.

Acceptance was when I realized the following:

school is a waste of time.....fuck it
weekdays are boring......deal with it
people have too high expectations of me......fuck them
I may be stupid......fuck that
I'm useless to society......so what
the world is full of faults......quit whining


I started to realize the one thing that was important to me; time moves forwards. This seemed like such an incredibly simple comment but it changed everything.

Think of how many people have something bad happen to them and worry about contimplate it for ages. People who just feel bad for the longest time. At this point I started to realize that the past was the past, and won't come back unless I let it.

So.....intelligence and hapiness?

No. but intelligence and acceptance of a sad reality?

Yup!


For me at least.

[Adam]

School is definitely NOT a waste of time provided you put in the effort to make of it what you can.

[Cris]

Tyler,

Nice topic.


Ignorance is bliss? Nah, ignorance leads to misery because when you lack knowledge or understanding of something you will be faced with confusion and that leads to stress, irrational actions, chaos, and misery.


Eventually you get to a point in life (or I have, as well as 2 friends of mine) where you start to question intelligence. A depressing moment in life hits and you begin to realize you think too much. LOL. It isn’t thinking too much that is depressing but rather that your thinking doesn’t lead you to many answers. I suspect you have reached the point where you realize how little you really know.


I began to realize a couple things. One, school is a waste of time. Sitting around and doing nothing all day. School will be the easiest time in your life, make the most of it. Once you leave things start getting hard. If you don’t learn to deal with school life now then you are going to have big trouble later.

I have to admit I seriously screwed up my school life and spent most of my time playing chess, mainly during regular lesson times (pocket chess sets). I now look at the subjects that my teenage daughters are now studying and wish so much I could go back and do it properly. Of course they don’t understand why I would want to do that and I don’t expect you to believe me either.


Two, weekdays are just the boring time in between weekends (this sounds like a common knowledge thing, but you're not actually depressed over it until you start counting every minute of the day). Make an effort to excel at everything that is presented to you. The actual subject isn’t important. You are an intelligent individual with little knowledge of anything. If you find something hard then figure out what is causing the block and overcome it. See every issue and problem as an opportunity and a challenge to make yourself wiser and more knowledgeable.


Three, it's possible that I'm (a) not as smart as everyone thinks I are and (more scary) (b) not as smart as I think I am. Who cares, and you shouldn’t care either. Be who you are and stop analyzing yourself.


Four, it's possible that I'm really quite stupid. Compared to what? Intelligence is entirely relative. You are likely to meet people in your life who are far more intelligent than you; they are a real joy to meet – usually very humble and incredible insightful and with a speed of thought that is devastating. You will also meet really stupid people.

The key here is to understand your own capabilities and accept what you are. Don’t try to be like the super intelligent, since you are not likely to get there and that type of failure will make you depressed. And look at the more stupid people and realize you don’t have to live with their confusion. IOW try to know who and what you are and then work within those assets and limitations.


Five, I'm a useless part of society, and always will be.

Six, I will never make an impact on society.

Seven, I started to realize all the faults in society. Who cares? You don’t owe society anything and society does not owe you anything. Live for yourself and do what makes you happy. Society will always exist and really has no interest in you, never has, and is unlikely to ever have.

If you think that helping other people is a good thing then do that but only if it will make you happy. There is no such thing as true altruism and everyone who helps others are doing so because they enjoy it.

The best and happiest approach to life is simple egoism. Everyone ultimately only do things for themselves but many pretend to themselves that their actions are for others. That simply isn’t true. So don’t pretend. Figure out what things do and might make you happy and create a plan to get there. However, there are two objectives that many strive for and end up very disappointed – (1) sex, and (2) money. If you end up with either of these then just see them as bonuses but they should never be seen as targets. They are transitory and should be allowed to come and go without any hold on your ultimate happiness.


So I ask, to you, which is better; pain and intelligence or ignorance and bliss?Intelligence on its own is useless, it is how you use intelligence that determines whether you achieve pain or bliss. If you remain ignorant then you will only achieve bliss through chance. If you use your intelligence to acquire knowledge then you can determine for yourself and discover true bliss.

Sorry for the lecture but I hope that helps.

Oh and don’t do what other people expect you to do, generally they don’t know any better than you. Determine your own life and goals and build your own plans.

Cris

[Cris]

Tyler,

I posted my main post before I saw your latest.

I think you've just realized what I was advising.

Good stuff.

Cris

[Cris]

Tyler,


Think of how many people have something bad happen to them and worry about contimplate it for ages. People who just feel bad for the longest time.So true.

Most things that people worry about never happen. So worrying is a real waste of time.

If something is going to happen then worrying about it won't change it. Again worrying is a real waste of time.

And lastly many people worry about things that have already happened. And again worrying about such things can never change what has already happened.

You get the idea - worrying about anything is a real waste of time and can and does cause real physiological illnesses.

Have fun
Cris

[Tyler]

Thanks Cris!

"LOL. It isn’t thinking too much that is depressing but rather that your thinking doesn’t lead you to many answers. I suspect you have reached the point where you realize how little you really know."

YES! That is it! When I started reading philosophy and starting to analyze myself and the people around me (and later, humanity in whole) I first came to this conclusion - 'everything is simple, nothing is complex'. And I truly believed I could explain most (not all) of human nature. A short while later, I realized what complete bull this was. They may be simple, but human nature and the universe are still not simple enough for me to grasp!!!


"I have to admit I seriously screwed up my school life and spent most of my time playing chess, mainly during regular lesson times (pocket chess sets)."

Chess, go, hockey talk, philosophy, sleep... These are the things I do during school.

I go to the top ranked public high school in Toronto (a big city, for those who don't know!). With the new curriculm MANY kids in my grade are failing (even more in the grade above us). The overall average in the school is 67. My estimates for the average for kids who actually do their homework is 75. There are 2 kids with 90 averages (two kids who, literally, work for 3 hours after school AT the school then go home and do homework all night - I have no respect for these people). My average's in two years have bveen 87 and 86. My most recent term I had a 98 in Computer Programming, including a 100 on an exam I didn't study for. I haven't done homework since term 2 of grade 7 (there is a funny story to go along with this if you want to hear why I stopped) unless it's a major project (does it need a bulliten board? - that's the test). I have not studied for a test. For 5 exams I studied two hours; one math, one science.

Over the years I have figured out how to simply 'play the game' as my history teacher says. I know how to get a mark that's in th top 3% of my school without working. Literally, everyone with above an 80 besides me does the required minimum of an hour and a half of homework a night.

I laugh!

So why work when I can do absolutely nothing and get 86? And yes, I realize that all this will likely change on day one of university!!


"Make an effort to excel at everything that is presented to you. The actual subject isn’t important. You are an intelligent individual with little knowledge of anything. If you find something hard then figure out what is causing the block and overcome it. See every issue and problem as an opportunity and a challenge to make yourself wiser and more knowledgeable."

Words of wisdom Llyod, words of wisdom.
- Jack Nicholson, shortly after going insane in The Shinning


"Compared to what? Intelligence is entirely relative. You are likely to meet people in your life who are far more intelligent than you; they are a real joy to meet – usually very humble and incredible insightful and with a speed of thought that is devastating. You will also meet really stupid people."

I cannot wait to meet someone that smart. I am begging for the day!


"Who cares? You don’t owe society anything and society does not owe you anything. Live for yourself and do what makes you happy. Society will always exist and really has no interest in you, never has, and is unlikely to ever have."

Shortly after I came to my conclusion (this is about 7 months ago) I decided that if by the age of 70 I have done nothing to make a large impact on society, I will assassinate a few important people and kill myself. Then I'll go down in the history books anyway! hahaha


"However, there are two objectives that many strive for and end up very disappointed – (1) sex, and (2) money. If you end up with either of these then just see them as bonuses but they should never be seen as targets."

Sex shouldn't be a target? Damn.....now I gotta rewrite my whole life's plan.

Damn.


"Oh and don’t do what other people expect you to do, generally they don’t know any better than you. Determine your own life and goals and build your own plans."

But my goals and plans all revolved around sex and money. And you said not to do that. But you also said not to listen to people. I'm confused.......
hehehe


"I think you've just realized what I was advising. Good stuff."

Thank you!

[Cris]

tyler,


But my goals and plans all revolved around sex and money. And you said not to do that. But you also said not to listen to people. I'm confused.......
heheheCheeky brat aren’t you? :D

Let me put it this way – all my plans at your age were also all about sex and money (hmm well mainly sex) and it took me several decades to realize other things are more worthwhile. Are you likely to believe me? Nah I doubt it. I guess you will have to have your perceived fun before wisdom arrives.

And I did say ‘other people’, and I am definitely not ‘other people’, so I don’t count. :D

Take care
Cris

[Xev]

You like chess, Tyler? Let me review: Chess, hockey, philosophy, and dogs....

Day-amn!

I like your philosophy, Cris. Although I do feel a sense of public duty, I think egotism is a good way to live.

Back on topic:

Pain and intelligence. I am not intelligent, but I am 'brainy' enough to stand out. When I was younger, I didn't know anyone my age who felt the same way. So, I used to really hate my brainyness, and try to hide it.

Eventually, I got over that, and on the whole, I am happy. I know the situation is not at all the same, but - intelligence is worth it.

[Cris]

Xev,

Did you mean to say egotism? That is quite different from egoism -

1 a : a doctrine that individual self-interest is the actual motive of all conscious action b : a doctrine that individual self-interest is the valid end of all actions.

It is simple and very honest.

Cris

[Cris]

Xev,


Although I do feel a sense of public duty..Why?

Is it because you feel it is important to help others no matter what?

or

Is it because helping others makes you feel good?

Be honest?

Egoism is simply an acceptance that everything we do is really about ourselves.

Even so-called unconditional love is egoistic since it is done to make the person giving feel good about themselves.

Egoism is honest because it removes the pretense and hypocrisy that others claim for their apparent altruistic acts.

Cris

[Counterbalance]

Cris wrote:


The best and happiest approach to life is simple egoism

And Counterbalance, grinning blissfully, replied...

"Ahhhh, Cris... that was a good one."

Thanks.

(& good night, all)

CB

[Cris]

CB,

But of course, thats the spirit - whatever turns you on my friend.;)

Cris

[Tyler]

You forgot guitar Xev! Not sure if I mentioned it before but the two things in life that I do to wipe my mind clear of every problem is play some shinny (outdoor hockey) or blast my guitar and play some good rock.

And like I said, we're still engaged right?


"Cheeky brat aren’t you?"

Oh without a doubt!


"Let me put it this way – all my plans at your age were also all about sex and money (hmm well mainly sex) and it took me several decades to realize other things are more worthwhile. Are you likely to believe me? Nah I doubt it. I guess you will have to have your perceived fun before wisdom arrives."

More worth while than sex and money? I'm not sure I want this enlightenment :) ! Life is here to do whatever you want to do with it (as long as in the process you do not gravely hurt anyone), that's my theory. I believe it was Ambrose Bierce who said 'An egotist is someone who cares more about himself than me.' and I think that sums it up. We're all here to do what makes us happy, that's it. If helping starving kids makes you happy, go ahead. If making tons of money makes you happy, be my guest. If making sweet, sweet love all day is what makes you happy and you're an attractive woman, can I have your number??....er....I mean.....do it!

Back to Xev;
"I am not intelligent, but I am 'brainy' enough to stand out. When I was younger, I didn't know anyone my age who felt the same way. So, I used to really hate my brainyness, and try to hide it."

I think one of the things that bothers me most in school today is that there are intelligent (at least somewhat) girls who purposely act ditzy or dumb just to fit in. There's guys who do it to, but not nearly as many.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying all intelligent girls do that....just far too many.

[Xev]

Darling, you would have to put up with my taste for classical.

Although I love rock!

P.S: Beatles or Stones?

Cris:

Why?

Is it because you feel it is important to help others no matter what?

or

Is it because helping others makes you feel good?

Be honest?

Good question. I might say a combination of both. I honestly don't care much about others....on the other hand, I feel a sense of obligation to...somthing.

I don't know. I enjoy a good fight, that is definitly part of it, but....

My thoughts are as disorganized as this post. I'll shut up now.

[Tyler]

Now this is starting to get scary. Xev I'm on my way to michigan to find you!

My mom is a pianist so I grew up with classical music and definetly like it!!!!

Beatles or Stones? Both. Depends on my mood. I like the later Beatles stuff (i.e. White Album, Abby...) but I also looooove Stones because it's more bluesy.

[Xev]

Uh oh

My mum was a pianist.

Just as long as we don't get as bad as Asguard and Temporary Illusion....:D

Stones. Although the Beatle's later stuff is good.

[Adam]

My grandfather was a pianist. But he wasn't very good. Couldn't reach all the keys you see, since he was only about a foot tall. He got all the ladies though, a different woman every night. How? Well, he was a 12-inch pianist...

[Xev]

I think that gag is one of the oldest in the history of sex jokes. People were probably telling it over mastadon roasts....:p

[Adam]

It's called mastadonation, and back then they did it far too much. Not only hairy palms, but all over their bodies!

[Xev]

That's bad. :D

[Tyler]

Agreed!

[Xev]

This is worse:

Astronomers do it Charging, Coupling and Devising.

There are, like, zillions of these, all bad:
http://www.xs4all.nl/~jcdverha/scijokes/2_14.html#do.it_4

A little neurological put down:
You've only got two neurons--and one of them's inhibitory.

[lwilson96]

I think that Intelligent people feel comfortable around an non egotistic ignorant person.
And Intelligent people feel comfortable around an egotistic intelligent person.
And egotistic ignorant people can be comfortable around egotistic ignorant people.

So I assume “Ignorance is bliss” depends on who you are and whom you are speaking to.

[Syzygys]

Give me ignorance, or give me death!

Of course ignorance and bliss are prefered....