Why do we curse? [Archive]

Fraggle Rocker

07-02-07, 12:55 PM

Why do curses just feel so good?It's a scream of pain or anger, uttered by a species with language who can do more than yowl.

If you're referring to actual blasphemy, using the name of gods and prophets, it goes back to the days when people believed more in the woo-woo part of Christianity than most anglophones do these days. To "take the lord's name in vain" was to dare that lord to smite you down right where you stood. To curse someone so viciously as to actually beg your god to damn them, or to ask for Jesus Christ to get the horse manure off of your boot, while flirting with being turned into a pillar of salt yourself, was a sign that you were not merely angry, but REALLY PISSED OFF.

There was a time when epithets like "zounds" were in use, a contraction of "god's wounds," meaning presumably the nail holes on Jesus's body. An oath: "By god's wounds, I will get that foul mosquito if I have to chase him to the ends of the earth." By eliding the "god" out of it, people hoped that it would not actually call down the wrath of same, as well as not offending polite company quite as deeply. "Gadzooks" is a similar sanitized version that was even permitted on radio shows.

Mere profanity such as words for excrement, body parts, sexual acts, etc., is a similar struggle to find new, effective ways to express how hurt or angry you are. To get people's attention through outrage. "Oh heck," or "a pox on both your houses" (Shakespeare) just don't do it after a few generations. Our screams of pain and anger lose their force when they've been uttered and heard too many times, so we're in a constant struggle to find fresh, offensive new words. "Damn" and "hell" lost their edge 30-40 years ago. Now "crap," "piss" and several other "bad words" that would have gotten me in serious trouble as a kid are PG-13. Half the population, probably including my half, use the F word and the S word so often that they're practically meaningless noise words like "the" and "uh."And who says being a gutter mouth is poor speech?In a democracy, the people decide. Today most city-dwelling Americans don't raise an eyebrow over an occasional "four-letter word." But they look down on people who overuse profanity, for the very reason that those really are noise words that weight their speech down with meaninglessness. A steady stream of curse words sounds to most of us like an attempt to extract the last bit of outrage from those words before they become next year's "hell" and "damn." Why does this person need to express so much anger and pain, so constantly? And if so, why is he so inarticulate that he can't do it with real words and tell us why he feels so much anger and pain?

That's why many of us are impatient with rap music. Okay homie, we get the point that you're angry. How about increasing your vocabulary by just a few dozen more words so you could tell us why?

People really don't want their children learning to talk in excessive profanity because they don't want them to grow up like inarticulate rappers who can't express themselves. (Yes yes I know some rap stars have a decent command of the language.) In recognition of that we have a (possibly new) policy of not allowing SciForums members to include obscenities in their screen names. We don't want parents looking at their kids' screens and seeing that the most recent post in the Geology subforum was by M-----F----- and deciding to block the site. There are people out there who really want to be known by names like that. I guess they're not all rappers. :)

John J. Bannan

07-02-07, 01:02 PM

So, we curse because our emotions don't give us the patience to find better words to describe our emotions? Sounds good to me.

iceaura

07-02-07, 01:24 PM

mikenostic

07-02-07, 01:43 PM

Cursing is hostile, like a dog barking. Continual hostility, like a dog that won't shut up, is tedious and irritating. It's also weak, unless really creative: someone who needs to get fired up to deal with minor difficulties is not necessarily someone I would count on in real trouble.

Not that I'm advocating it, but I'm pretty sure someone who is swearing incessantly at you at any given moment, really doesn't give a rat's ass what you think of it.
I wasn't taking a shot at you; I was just saying that a person who's pissed off to the point of swearing every other word; the last thing that is on their mind is whether or not someone is offended.
I've been pissed to the point where I was swearing incessantly, but it's usually when I'm by myself or not directing it towards anyone. If I'm pissed at customer service or someone like that, I'll let them know that I'm upset, but will hardly ever use swear words and will still treat them with respect. I for one, don't like dealing with or even talking to pissed off customers who can't stop swearing.
"golly gee whiz", "shucks", "dangit/darnit to heck" just doesn't seem to get the point across as well as..."@#%$%@#$^%^%^*&@!" sometimes.

darksidZz

07-02-07, 02:09 PM

f*i*ng mo*f*ers I at** ya to dea**th f*ing get me a *ob from *irl !!!

Baron Max

07-02-07, 07:52 PM

So, we curse because our emotions don't give us the patience to find better words to describe our emotions? Sounds good to me.

Why take the time and effort to search for other words when the curse words will do the trick? And usually at those times, one doesn't like to take extra time to get their thoughts out.

One of General George Armstrong Custer's last words were: "Oh, shit! Look at all them fuckin' Indians!" Now what other words could have conveyed that same, desperate, fearful situation so effectively? :D

Baron Max

shorty_37

07-02-07, 08:01 PM

"oh faeces! Look at all them fricken Indians!

Baron Max

07-02-07, 08:16 PM

"oh faeces! Look at all them fricken Indians!

Those are curse words, Shorty, whether you want to admit it or not. You're just using different words as if they're "nice words" ....they ain't. Everyone knows the translations, and they know what you were/are thinking, so ....you're swearing, simple as that.

Baron Max

Orleander

07-02-07, 08:21 PM

I'm thinking a calmly stated "Heaven Help Us" would have been more bone chilling that an angry "F%^K!!! Look at them damn Indians!!"

Just because you can swear, doesn't mean you should. Its called MANNERS. Its why some men get laid and others don't.

shorty_37

07-02-07, 08:23 PM

Those are curse words, Shorty, whether you want to admit it or not. You're just using different words as if they're "nice words" ....they ain't. Everyone knows the translations, and they know what you were/are thinking, so ....you're swearing, simple as that.

Baron Max

lolol :p

Baron Max

07-02-07, 08:27 PM

I'm thinking a calmly stated "Heaven Help Us" would have been more bone chilling that an angry "F%^K!!! Look at them damn Indians!!"

But others don't think so. See? You have to learn to be more tolerant and understanding of the behavior of others if you ever expect to get along in a society full of ...well, rapists, murderers, drug addict, drunks, whores, bullies, jihadists, fanatical Muslims, ..., and other such fine examples of the human specie.

Just because you can swear, doesn't mean you should. Its called MANNERS. Its why some men get laid and others don't.

Well, geez, ....next thing ya' know, you're gonna want to censure even the fine behavior of rapists, murderers, drug addict, drunks, whores, bullies, jihadists, fanatical Muslims, ..., and other such fine examples of the human specie.

Orleander, you simply must learn to be more tolerant and understanding of others. :D

Baron Max

shorty_37

07-02-07, 08:29 PM

Just because you can swear, doesn't mean you should. Its called MANNERS. Its why some men get laid and others don't.

In some circumstances the last thing on my mind is fucking manners!

Orleander

07-02-07, 08:30 PM

...Orleander, you simply must learn to be more tolerant and understanding of others. :D

Baron Max

No I don't. They must be tolerant of me or else I'll tell. And then I'll cry. A lot! LOUDLY!!

shorty_37

07-02-07, 08:31 PM

No I don't. They must be tolerant of me or else I'll tell. And then I'll cry. A lot! LOUDLY!!

oh no you're not a crybaby WUSS are you?:bugeye:

EmptyForceOfChi

07-02-07, 08:38 PM

for shorty
http://www.sendcurses.com/007.htm

for oli
http://www.sendcurses.com/011.htm

for dark
http://www.sendcurses.com/001.htm

for baron
http://www.sendcurses.com/002.htm

peace

shorty_37

07-02-07, 08:51 PM

for shorty
http://www.sendcurses.com/007.htm

peace

lolol hey i got it waxed not long ago:eek:

Baron Max

07-02-07, 08:54 PM

lolol hey i got it waxed not long ago

Ooh, that's an organized crime term meaning "to be killed". "Hey, Joe, did ya' wax that bitch for us?" "Oh, yeah, boss, and I gutted her for ya', too!"

Baron Max

shorty_37

07-02-07, 08:58 PM

hehe......Baron.....did you read chi's curse for you:eek: lol

Baron Max

07-02-07, 08:59 PM

hehe......Baron.....did you read chi's curse for you:eek: lol

No, I typically don't click on links that people put up ...I consider it a waste of my time and effort.

Baron Max

EmptyForceOfChi

07-02-07, 09:21 PM

lolol hey i got it waxed not long ago:eek:

lol :) well now your cursed and your upper lip is destined to be as hairy as a french womans armpits. it will be like you just ate don king feet first.

peace.

Baron Max

07-02-07, 09:23 PM

lol :) well now your cursed and your upper lip is destined to be ....

Upper lip??? Geez, I thought they were, ....ahh, like, ....side by side??? :D

Baron Max

EmptyForceOfChi

07-02-07, 09:35 PM

Upper lip??? Geez, I thought they were, ....ahh, like, ....side by side??? :D

Baron Max

if you turn your head sideways.

peace.

iceaura

07-03-07, 12:27 AM

Not that I'm advocating it, but I'm pretty sure someone who is swearing incessantly at you at any given moment, really doesn't give a rat's ass what you think of it. I'm absolutely sure that you are correct, there.

Neither does a barking dog. All night, all day, doesn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks. Which makes it a moronic, worthless nuisance that everyone has to babysit and walk eggshells around and make allowances for, until we can get rid of it.

People, of course, we can't get rid of, exactly. The constantly hostile, like the autistic and the Tourette's sufferers and other mentally crippled folks, are all God's children. Responsible adults try to make allowances for them, and give them jobs they can do and roles they can succeed in.

Then we go off and enjoy life, at a distance.

madanthonywayne

07-03-07, 02:41 AM

I believe I learned in Psychology that "cursing" is a way for the ego to rebel against the superego.

"

ntgr

07-03-07, 05:55 AM

That 's interesting..

Orleander

07-03-07, 07:35 AM

would swearing at someone be considered a verbal assault?

sandy

07-03-07, 07:49 AM

For me, swearing comes out of anger and extreme frustration. The Bible says it's what's in our hearts that comes out of our mouths. :eek: I obviously have severe disdain for: anything against my God and country, and cruelty to animals and children. Most of everything else doesn't faze me.

Saying "In the name of Jesus" will p!ss off more people than most swear words. Liberals have made saying "Jesus Christ" so "offensive" and politically incorrect, it's scary. :(

Baron Max

07-03-07, 08:54 AM

would swearing at someone be considered a verbal assault?

Yes and no! Remember, swearing AT someone can be considered verbal assault, but just swearing as they TALK to someone is not.

But, as you might guess, being able to prove such things in court is more difficult than you might imagine ...and it would cost a fortune in legal fees.

Baron Max

Fraggle Rocker

07-03-07, 12:41 PM

Neither does a barking dog. All night, all day, doesn't give a rat's ass what anyone thinks. Which makes it a moronic, worthless nuisance that everyone has to babysit and walk eggshells around and make allowances for, until we can get rid of it.While some dogs--and perhaps some breeds--are just wired wrong or deliberately bred to be high-strung, most dogs that bark too much have a reason. Never made to feel like a useful part of their mixed-species "pack," suspicious noises in the neighborhood that are beyond our hearing, or most commonly a non-alpha dog left alone without pack-mates. A reason we place so many of our Lhasa Apsos with people who live alone. They're almost all alphas and thus comfortable with solitude.

A family's dog is a good window into its level of dysfunctionality. If all else fails, dogs can be de-barked. As breeders with usually a dozen of them around, we routinely have ours de-barked; they can still bark but it drops by 20-30dB so we're all happy. (Twelve of any breed can be noisy.) We can't do that with humans, but in most cases we do have the ability to find out what's bothering them.would swearing at someone be considered a verbal assault?Not in most American cities, as long as you don't overdo it. The controversial new laws against "hate speech" are ripe for abuse. Of course if you go into the Bible Belt you're in a 200-year time warp. And corporate policies vary widely as to what's "respectful" in the workplace so you could be fired if not arrested.For me, swearing comes out of anger and extreme frustration. The Bible says it's what's in our hearts that comes out of our mouths.I enjoyed the scene in The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho when the shepherd for the first time meets the man who turns out to be the alchemist. The boy is invited to have some wine with his dinner, and having now been in North Africa for several months he says suspiciously, "I thought that violates your religion." The man answers, "It's not what enters men's mouths that's evil. It's what comes out of their mouths that is."

Orleander

07-03-07, 01:26 PM

Here in Michigan you can get a ticket for profanity (http://www.theinternetparty.org/commentary/c_s.php?section_type=com&td=20020404153739).

STANDISH, Mich. - Boater Timothy Boomer recently ended up in hot water after falling out of a canoe. A sheriff's deputy says Boomer exploded into a three-minute tirade of profanity loud enough to be heard a quartermile away. Citing an 1897 Michigan law that prohibits cursing in front of women and children, the deputy ticketed Boomer.

Boomer, 24, says the incident has been overblown. "There's no way it was three minutes," he says. "It was with a group of friends, just having a good time. There was no anger, hostility, of any kind."

William Street, Boomer's attorney, says even a boorish outburst is protected speech under the First Amendment. "Are we now going to have language police?" he asks.

Baron Max

07-03-07, 01:42 PM

..... Citing an 1897 Michigan law that prohibits cursing in front of women and children, the deputy ticketed Boomer.

I think a law enacted in 1897 might be just a tab out-dated, wouldn't you?

And if I recall correctly, that case AND that law was thrown out in the trial, wasn't it? If not, it sure should have been!

However, just so you know, I think the guy should have been cited for something like "disturbing the peace" rather than swearing in public in front of the delicate ladies and little kids.

Baron Max

Orleander

07-03-07, 01:44 PM

Agreed Baron. I always wondered how the officer pulled a 1897 law out of his hat.

I know most stadiums/theme parks have rules against profanity. They will kick your butt right out.

Baron Max

07-03-07, 01:49 PM

Agreed Baron. I always wondered how the officer pulled a 1897 law out of his hat.

Actually, if I remember correctly, he didn't "pull it out of his hat" ...he arrested the guy, THEN discovered the law! ...LOL!

I know most stadiums/theme parks have rules against profanity. They will kick your butt right out.

Private property ....laws/rules/etc are different. I.e., they can kick a person out of the property, but they can't arrest him for anything.

Baron Max

madanthonywayne

07-04-07, 02:30 AM

That 's interesting..
The superego is considered to be your assimilation of societies/your parents morals while your ego is your primal urges. So by swearing you're rebeling against society/your parents.

sniffy

07-04-07, 10:33 AM

We swear because we hear our parents/peers/people on the telly/at the movies do it. More pseudo rebellion than actual?

Orleander

07-04-07, 12:47 PM

At work, my husband swears like a sailor. My husband says our son swears like a sailor.
I rarely hear my husband swear and I have never heard my son swear. Neither one wants to feel my wrath. lol

Baron Max

07-04-07, 01:01 PM

At work, my husband swears like a sailor. My husband says our son swears like a sailor.
I rarely hear my husband swear and I have never heard my son swear. Neither one wants to feel my wrath. lol

Interesting. Does that mean that they're hiding who they really are from you? Lying to you about their characters?

Or is it the other way around? ...they lie to their peers, but are truthful about their character to only you?

Don't it make you wonder?

Baron Max

S.A.M.

07-04-07, 01:05 PM

Why do curses just feel so good? And who says being a gutter mouth is poor speech?

Its a sign that you're aggravated; which means you have no control over whats happening and no notion of how to deal with it, so you vent.

Basically its a way of imposing an illusion of control where none exists.

Baron Max

07-04-07, 01:05 PM

We swear because we hear our parents/peers/people on the telly/at the movies do it. More pseudo rebellion than actual?

Or perhaps more like trying to fit in with their peers, with society?

Just thinking about it, I know very few, if any, people who DON'T swear ...even if some do it only ocassionally, special situations.

However, I know of lots of people who "claim" that swearing is a bad thing, or that people shouldn't do it. In fact, even many of the people who swear like sailors will often make claims that swearing is a bad thing. Hmm?

Baron Max

Baron Max

07-04-07, 01:09 PM

Its a sign that you're aggravated; which means you have no control over whats happening and no notion of how to deal with it, so you vent.

Basically its a way of imposing an illusion of control where none exists.

What's that bullshit, Sam ....just more psycho-babble crap that you read somewhere and now think it's true ...and so you pass it on to us as if it were, in fact, true?

Is that how old wives tales come into being ....just keep sayin' 'em enough and sooner or later, they'll all become "truth"? ...LOL!

Baron Max

Nikelodeon

07-04-07, 01:09 PM

Its a sign that you're aggravated

What's that bullshit, Sam

Hehe.

S.A.M.

07-04-07, 01:10 PM

What's that bullshit, Sam ....just more psycho-babble crap that you read somewhere and now think it's true ...and so you pass it on to us as if it were, in fact, true?

Is that how old wives tales come into being ....just keep sayin' 'em enough and sooner or later, they'll all become "truth"? ...LOL!

Baron Max

Let me guess, you don't need to be aggravated ot frustrated to curse. :)

Neildo

07-04-07, 01:13 PM

The superego is considered to be your assimilation of societies/your parents morals while your ego is your primal urges. So by swearing you're rebeling against society/your parents.

Leave it to psychologists to over-analyze things, heh.

Why do we curse? It adds emphasis. Good-fucking-luck. Fuck off? Same thing as Leave me alone, but if you said leave me the fuck alone, that shows you really mean it. Not really a curse, but since it has the F word in it, people think it is.

Like Baron said, you can tweak the words all you want to make it sound nice, but you're still trying to insult someone or are making a generalized swear out loud. And then like Fraggle said, when you curse in pain, it's the same as an animal howling in pain, we're just able to do a more complex screech.

But here, this explains it all:

http://www.funlol.com/funpages/historyoffword.html

:D

- N

Baron Max

07-04-07, 01:18 PM

Let me guess, you don't need to be aggravated ot frustrated to curse.

Fuck no! Language is simply words that we put together to mean something to others. "Fuck" or "shit" or "goddammit" are some of those words, why the fuck not use them in communication?

It's just like contractions .....it's, I'm, we're, she's, he's, it's, ....... those are words that we use every single day, thousands of times, yet when we write out sentences, we say, "I am going to the store, honey." instead of "I'm goin' to th' store, honey."

Fuck, shit and damn, etc are just words ...no more, no less. Some people use those words in communicating, ....and some people don't like to hear those words. Big deal.

I don't like Mexican-Americans using Spanish words, or Indian-Americans using Indian words, around me, so should I tell them to stop? Or tell them that those words are wrong?

Baron Max

Fraggle Rocker

07-04-07, 02:18 PM

What's that bullshit, Sam ....just more psycho-babble crap that you read somewhere and now think it's true ...and so you pass it on to us as if it were, in fact, true?Max really believes that comedy slogan, "Everything important that I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten." Anything that is taught in later years, particularly about relationships, he dismisses as psychobabble. :)Let me guess, you don't need to be aggravated ot frustrated to curse. :)Fuck no! Language is simply words that we put together to mean something to others. "Fuck" or "shit" or "goddammit" are some of those words, why the fuck not use them in communication?Max is always aggravated about something! Q.E.D.It's just like contractions .....it's, I'm, we're, she's, he's, it's, ....... those are words that we use every single day, thousands of times, yet when we write out sentences, we say, "I am going to the store, honey." instead of "I'm goin' to th' store, honey."Most of us use contractions in notes or e-mail to our friends and family. The bar between formal and informal is set a little higher in writing than in speaking, but that's [edit--there I just wrote one myself!]typical of most people and most languages. When we set our words down in a permanent medium so that people outside our circle of intimates might come back and read them later, out of context, we tend to be more careful. As for spellings like goin' and th', those are just the way we pronounce those words. Most people don't deconstuct their language consciously the way we're doing, and don't even realize that they pronounce those words that way. Similarly, in recent years we've taken to writing "gonna" in dialog passages, particularly the Brits when they want to make fun of American speech. They also spell out our "wanna" and "I dunno," which we almost never do. We'd need a whole glossary to do that for their dialect: "Jawn, con't you heah muh-ee when I toke on the pheh-oon todie?"I don't like Mexican-Americans using Spanish words, or Indian-Americans using Indian words, around me, so should I tell them to stop? Or tell them that those words are wrong?Living in Tejas, I should think with your penchant for profanity that by now your speech would be laced with words like puta and jodido. Ever since I fell out of my chair laughing when Chávez called our beloved Religious Redneck Retard a pendejo, I haven't been able to stop using the word.

Baron Max

07-04-07, 07:23 PM

Max really believes that comedy slogan, "Everything important that I needed to know, I learned in kindergarten."

That's not comedy, Fraggle!

Anything that is taught in later years, particularly about relationships, he dismisses as psychobabble.

Well, Fraggle, look at it this way - since the advent of "psycho-babble", and people learning all about, the problems of relationships, including marriage, has all gone to shit in a handbasket. In the days before the psycho-babble bullshit, marriages were pretty solid; children weren't taking drugs for depression at the age of five; people generally got along and formed pretty cohesive and peaceful societies. Perhaps we all should have dismissed all that bullshit psycho-fuckin'-babble, huh?

And as usual, the rest of your long, involved post is nothing but bullshit to make people here think you know what the fuck ye're talkin' about. I.e., psycho-babble bullshit.

See? That's why you have to type so much ...you can't just say what you think or mean, you have to cover it all up with ...bullshit.

Baron Max

shorty_37

07-04-07, 11:26 PM

That's not comedy, Fraggle!

See? That's why you have to type so much ...you can't just say what you think or mean, you have to cover it all up with ...bullshit.

Baron Max

lolol Just like that Dr PHIL I think he is full of what you call it baron
psycho-babble bullshit. I agree some ppl talk too much just get to the point.

ntgr

07-05-07, 07:04 AM

madanthonywayne what you said about ego-superego and cursing makes sense, I just never thought of it that way before that's why I thought it was interesting :)

And I agree that when we are very angry or experiencing very strong emotions our control and logic are minimum. A different part of the brain is used, which is much faster (in order to respond to e.g. possible danger) but also less intelligent. If anyone is interested in scientific proof of that there is plenty of research mentioned in Daniel Goleman's book about EQ.

Fraggle Rocker

07-05-07, 12:07 PM

What you said about ego-superego and cursing makes sense, I just never thought of it that way before that's why I thought it was interesting. And I agree that when we are very angry or experiencing very strong emotions our control and logic are minimum. A different part of the brain is used, which is much faster (in order to respond to e.g. possible danger) but also less intelligent.I've been trying to relate this to the difference between the brain hemispheres. Our speech center is in the left hemisphere, where thoughts tend to be processed in a linear, logical fashion. The thinking is more holographic in the right hemisphere, where most artistic processes are centered.

It's hard to Google any good information on this subject related to swearing or impulsive speech in general. Perhaps I need to get an advanced degree and join a professional society first. I would hypothesize that the phenomenon we call "speaking without thinking" is the fast-track transmission of emotionally-grounded ideas from the right hemisphere over the corpus callosum into the speech center, shortcutting the left hemisphere's reasoning. This is consistent with the limited vocabulary we draw on in these situations. It seems like a verbal analog of our fight-or-flight decisions, in which there's no time for complicated reasoning. If that's true, it's an atavism, since there seems to be no advantage--evolutionary or otherwise--to speaking without thinking. If anyone is interested in scientific proof of that there is plenty of research mentioned in Daniel Goleman's book about EQ.One of the few things Max and I agree on is that life is too short to follow URLs in SciForums postings. So you can imagine how I feel about having to track down a book. :) Nonetheless I did read the Wiki articles on Goleman and Emotional Intelligence. (Originally abbreviated EI, but a Dutch sci-fi author had coined EQ for the same concept twenty years earlier, so that abbreviation already had momentum outside the anglophone world.) My own hypothesis, deduced from what we all already know about the workings of the brain, so far does not seem to be inconsistent with his theory. And BTW there's some controversy over whether it's really "his" theory or is based largely on the work of others.

sandy

07-05-07, 12:27 PM

I want to know how many infractions I would get for starting an FU thread?:D

I could say FU to all the personal attackers that WON'T stop. I could say FU to all the PMers who say nasty things.

Does anyone know how many infractions would be given by a mod for an FU thread? Does it depend where I put it? Would it be deleted? Would I be banned?

Almost serious here, folks. This is getting very old. :(

shorty_37

07-05-07, 01:26 PM

Fraggle Rocker

07-05-07, 01:31 PM

I want to know how many infractions I would get for starting an FU thread? I could say FU to all the personal attackers that WON'T stop. I could say FU to all the PMers who say nasty things. Does anyone know how many infractions would be given by a mod for an FU thread? Does it depend where I put it? Would it be deleted? Would I be banned? Almost serious here, folks. This is getting very old.I am the moderator of this subforum. We are free to discuss profanity, including spelling out the words and giving examples of their usage, since after all it is language and that's what we're here for. However, I edit profanity out of postings if it is an insult directed at a specific member, group or idea. Even when it's in a foreign language and is grammatically incorrect. :)

The majority of our members are young, and many are very young. I believe I speak for a consensus of the moderators (and I am paraphrasing one of them) when I say that we don't want a parent to ask his child why she is on the internet instead of doing her homework, the child to answer, "I found a great website where this really bright grad student is helping me with my linguistics project," the parent to say, "How wonderful, let me see what he's posting," and then discover that the subforum in question is peppered with spurious four-letter words.

If your FU thread is about the origin of the term FU and the emotions it evokes in people to whom it's directed, that's scholarship and that's what SciForums is all about. If your purpose is 1. Not to add anything substantive to the scholarship on this website AND 2. Merely to provoke an angry reaction from other members, that is our definition of "trolling" and I will delete the thread.

I'm pretty stingy with infractions, I've only given one or two in the months that I've been a moderator, and none in my own subforum. But other moderators are free to give infractions outside of their own turf, and we're reluctant to overrule each other. As for banning, the subject has come up three times since I've had the executive-restroom-key to the Moderators subforum and in all three instances I spoke out against it, but in one case I eventually changed my mind in exasperation. Nonetheless banning is more or less by consensus so it's not entirely up to me.

Linguistics doesn't get a lot of action so I'm able to be a pretty hands-on moderator. If I don't like something I just go in and change it rather than complaining about it.

As for your problem with personal attacks, I suggest that you read the name of the website: SCI Forums. We are currently working to make that emphasis on Science clear. Surely you've noticed that Free Thoughs has been demoted to the bottom of the table of contents. This is a meeting place for scientists and people who are interested in science. That includes off-duty scientists and future scientists seeking advice for the lovelorn, sharing their favorite music and shooting rubber bands at each other. But even discussions of art, history, current events and dating are expected to respect the principles of science, or at the very least not flout them. Occam's razor, peer review, disprovable theories, observation-based reasoning, etc. If you don't like our bias in favor of the scientific method and against non-science or sheer anti-science, such as religious fundamentalism and 19th-century theories of "racial" supremacy (both of which I personally define very broadly), I don't know what to tell you except that you may have come to the wrong website.

ntgr

07-06-07, 09:26 AM

Fraggle rocker,

I didn't say that EI is Goleman's theory :) and yes, maybe he did try to take credit for it, I don't really know. However, he mentions dozens of other scientists and their work in his books as all researchers do.

If you are interested in EI, there is an online book (free) by Steve Hein (not so much about brain function but very interesting imo):
http://eqi.org/eqe96_1.htm

iceaura

07-06-07, 05:39 PM

While some dogs--and perhaps some breeds--are just wired wrong or deliberately bred to be high-strung, most dogs that bark too much have a reason. So do most people who swear. I didn't mean to blame the dog, exactly, just point out the parallel.

There are people who regard swearing as more honest - more real - than other speech.

A family's dog is a good window into its level of dysfunctionality. As is a human's use of curse words ? In this limited context, I mean.
In the days before the psycho-babble bullshit, marriages were pretty solid; children weren't taking drugs for depression at the age of five; people generally got along and formed pretty cohesive and peaceful societies Oh baloney.

SagaciousMind

07-18-07, 12:33 AM

SagaciousMind

07-18-07, 12:35 AM

People 'curse' because they don't have a big enough vocabulary to say what they mean, or they're just too lazy to say what they mean, or they think they become cool, or seem more threatening by doing so.

Also, resorting to sounding threatening to get your message across is another sign of lack of volcabulary and/or anything to back up what you're saying as right.

Grantywanty

07-18-07, 03:13 AM

People 'curse' because they don't have a big enough vocabulary to say what they mean, or they're just too lazy to say what they mean, or they think they become cool, or seem more threatening by doing so.

That's a pretty limited set of alternatives. People also curse when no one is listening. I know, I have. I was not trying to impress anyone or threaten anyone and my vocabulary is rather large. I also said exactly what I meant. The words have an expressive power. Sometimes they are an effective way to express how I feel. As far as content goes I could replace them with a long piece of psychological self-analysis of my mood, but there is no reason to. Language is not simply a container for information; it has an expressive role.

SagaciousMind

07-18-07, 03:24 AM

That's a pretty limited set of alternatives. People also curse when no one is listening. I know, I have. I was not trying to impress anyone or threaten anyone and my vocabulary is rather large. I also said exactly what I meant. The words have an expressive power. Sometimes they are an effective way to express how I feel. As far as content goes I could replace them with a long piece of psychological self-analysis of my mood, but there is no reason to. Language is not simply a container for information; it has an expressive role.

Indeed, I should not make lists that seem definitive.
Doesn't that fit into the category of being to lazy to say it all? :)

Grantywanty

07-18-07, 03:32 AM

(this was a general response to the thread and not a response to SagaciousMind's last post)

This whole idea that we should substitute other words for curses is ridiculous. Curses are part of the speaker's and the writer's palettes. They contain meaning in very efficient forms. They are expressive.

To make general rules saying they should not be used seems 1) a waste of time 2) confused about language.

Many of the curses in English are actually Anglo-Saxon everyday words. They were considered coarse by those portions of the upper classes who had Norman blood or wanted to appear just so precious. (I believe I have this right but the real linguists can jump in and correct me). Curse words are not inherently bad. They do not damage the ear drum.

And 'fuck you' can be an appropriate and in a sense mild rebuke. If someone says that to me, I know they are angry AND I do not come away with some judgement. That person could have insulted my weight, said my wife was a whore, made fun of my looks....etc. In other words they might have found a something to say that would stick with me later. What do I come away with? That guy was really pissed off. Clean.

I get fired. My car breaks down. I break my big toe. I limp home and find I lost my front door key. 'How was your day?' 'Shitty.' Should I replace that with 'Today was so significantly below the norm that I am not pleased and should perhaps be left alone.'

Give me a break. (see, right now this is all hypothetical so I could leave out the participle form of 'fuck' in that sentence)

Grantywanty

07-18-07, 03:38 AM

Here's a scary question (preceded by a couple of assertions).

Some of the expressive power of these words may be because some people think they are bad words. Some people feel they express more because they feel they are transgressing.

Are those of us who do not disapprove of the use of curse words in some way dependent on those who do?

(I actually find that an unpleasant question)

This does not mean that they need to be around when I use the curse words.

SagaciousMind

07-18-07, 03:44 AM

laughing weasel

07-18-07, 04:30 AM

I think that swearing is a form of laziness. I resort to profanity when I am comfortable with the group I am with and am in a hurry. I am more inclined to tell someone that they are diseased leppers or aberrant spawn of liverflukes and small rodents than to say that they are @$!() bag scum. I was taught as a child that swearing was for the lazy and the illiterate.

M.A.R.K

07-18-07, 06:11 AM

I'm of mixed mind when it comes to swearing/curses.

I don't think they're really offensive though. They're just noises. Y'know.

But this.......

Perhaps one of the most interesting words in the English language today, is the word fuck. Of all the English words beginning with f, fuck is the single one referred to as the "f-word". It's the one magical word. Just by it's sound it can describe pain, pleasure, hate and love. Fuck, as most of the other words in English, has arrived from Germany. Fuck from German's "fliechen" which mean to strike. In English, fuck folds into many grammatical categories. As a transital verb for instance, "John fucked Shirley". As an intransitive verb; "Shirley fucks". It's meaning is not always sexual, it can be used as an adjective such as; John's doing all the fucking work. As part of an adverb; "Shirley talks too fucking much", as an adverb enhancing an adjective; Shirley is fucking beautiful. As a noun; "I don't give a fuck". As part of a word: "abso-fucking-lutely" or "in-fucking-credible". Or as almost every word in a sentence: "fuck the fucking fuckers!". As you must realize, there aren't many words with the versitility such as the word fuck,as in these examples used as the following words;
- fraud: "I got fucked"
- trouble: "I guess I'm really fucked now"
- dismay: "Oh, fuck it!"
- aggresion: "don't fuck with me, buddy!"
- difficulty: "I don't understand this fucking question"
- inquery: "who the fuck was that?"
- dissatisfaction: "I don't like what the fuck is going on here"
- incompetence: "he's a fuck-off!"
- dismissal: "why don't you go outside and fuck yourself?"

I'm sure you can think of many more examples.
With all these multipurpoused applications, how can anyone be offended when you use the word?
Use this unique, flexibel word more often in your daily speech. It will identify the quality of your character immediately. Say it loudly and proudly:
FUCK YOU!

Is Great.:D

SagaciousMind

07-18-07, 06:16 AM

Grantywanty

07-18-07, 06:18 AM

Indeed. It is the 'laziness' factor :) people don't much feel like talking when they are angry etc., so they resort to short words or phrases to get out a general meaning. Saying your day was 'shitty' is expressive, sure, but not so detailed or explanatory.

It is literally not laziness in many cases. I am not in the mood to explain, as one possible reason. I cannot explain, is another example. Besides, the longer way of explaining should have the onus for justification. Just why should I have to go on at length in ALL situations?

Again: language is not simply a bunch of containers for information. You are restricting language use unnecessarily.

Laziness implies that I am not willing to put in as much effort as you think I should put in. You would listen in on such a conversation between me and a friend of mine and feel like I showed moral weakness - however slight.

I find that odd in the extreme.

Do you think people are lazy when they say they are fine? When in fact they have mixed feelings that perhaps sum up to around the median?

Should they IN ALL CASES give a more detailed explanation of their state of mind and emotions?

Grantywanty

07-18-07, 06:26 AM

I think a related issue is poetry, oddly enough. The idea that one can sum up a poem in a paraphrase seems connected to this idea that one 'should' explain in greater detail and 'more clearly'. To me 'shitty' 'fucked up' convey very precise impressions and communicate very accurately and effectively in certain situations.

If the other person needs to know more information, I can, of course, add this. Or if it is one of those situations where I must be explanatory right from the start, fine, I'll do that.

I would not say to the other neurosurgeon: quick do something, it's fucked up over here.

If you want to narrow down your own options for vocabulary use, well, go ahead, restrict yourselves?

But assuming that you are now less lazy or are more ethical speakers than those who do not wish to restrict themselves in this way is simply that: an assumption and one based on nothing.

SagaciousMind

07-18-07, 06:35 AM

It is literally not laziness in many cases. I am not in the mood to explain, as one possible reason. I cannot explain, is another example. Besides, the longer way of explaining should have the onus for justification. Just why should I have to go on at length in ALL situations?

Again: language is not simply a bunch of containers for information. You are restricting language use unnecessarily.

Laziness implies that I am not willing to put in as much effort as you think I should put in. You would listen in on such a conversation between me and a friend of mine and feel like I showed moral weakness - however slight.

I find that odd in the extreme.

Do you think people are lazy when they say they are fine? When in fact they have mixed feelings that perhaps sum up to around the median?

Should they IN ALL CASES give a more detailed explanation of their state of mind and emotions?

That's just the point of it. You don't want to go on at length so you swear to get the general idea out. That's what I just said. I also see you applying a negative meaning to my choice of the word 'laziness' which it does not have. Maybe, like you and your swears, I do not have another word for it. In my own 'laziness' I also chose the word 'laziness'. Because it does not contain the whole meaning of what I want it to, you do not get it. So I will now have to respond in length. I suppose it's quite similar to summarizing a movie instead of telling the whole story, or 'paraphrasing' your answer.
And yes I find the whole question of 'how are you' typically annoying and pointless because people give one word answers that mean nothing. I personally don't like saying fine and only say it because I can't very well say nothing in reply.

Fraggle Rocker

07-18-07, 09:59 AM

And yes I find the whole question of 'how are you' typically annoying and pointless because people give one word answers that mean nothing. I personally don't like saying fine and only say it because I can't very well say nothing in reply."How are you" is a formality. To paraphrase Loni Anderson, formalities are formalities and that's why we call them that. The formality is not to be observed in its literal meaning. It is a social convention, all connotation and no denotation. Many languages have it: Cómo está usted -- Ni hao ma -- Wie geht es Ihnen? In all cases it is the initiation of a ritual and its only purpose is to reassure our species's pack-social instinct, ten millennia after we began violating that instinct every day by building a civilization and living among strangers.

We don't wake up in the cave every morning and look around to make sure none of our pack mates--extended family members who have been by our side since birth--was eaten by a bear during the night, and then go on about our collective business side-by-side. We have to reestablish the pack structure with dozens of people whom we haven't seen lately, and establish it with dozens of others we've never seen before. They reply, Muy bien, gracias, y usted -- Hen hao, xie xie, ni ne -- Sehr gut, danke, und Ihnen? It's a ritual. It means nothing except, "We both acknowledge that we are pack mates in this increasingly virtual pack called civilization. The spirit of the Mesolithic hunter-gatherer that lives deep inside each of us is satisifed that we are not competitors for scarce resources who must now fight to the death."

Every pair of human beings who say, "How are you?" -- "Fine, thanks. And you?" are two human beings who are very unlikely to go to war with each other today.

I find it interesting that there are two paradigms of greeting. Cómo está usted? requires an answer. It begs to establish a dialog, to draw us together as virtual pack mates, to revert us fleetingly to the Mesolithic Era when life was easy to understand. Zdravstvuytye does not. (I'm not picking on the Russians, it's just a language whose greeting, "health to you," I happen to know. And can even pronounce. :)) I wonder how that subtly affects and is a representation of the cultures? In English we have both types. We say, "How are you?" and expect a response, but we also say "Hello," "hi" and all the variants of "Good morning," and merely hope for one. What causes us to choose one over the other in a particular situation? (To be fair, the Russians I maligned can also say Kak vash?, "How is it with you?")

Note that because of the ritualistic nature of these formalities, they lose their power and fade away. "How do you do?" became "how d'ye do?" then "howdy do" with no question mark, and finally "howdy." After migrating into the class of greetings that urge no reply, it has faded away completely except in regional dialect. "How are you?" is starting to sound like "Hawaii" and will probably undergo the same fate.

So when someone says, "How are you?" and you say, "Fine," it is not a question and an answer. It is the initiation of ritual contact followed by the acceptance of the contact. Two hunter-gatherers who have found a way to coexist peacefully on the same hunting and gathering territory: this planet.

As long as I'm citing my favorite female TV stars, I'll go with Martha Stewart on this one: "It's a good thing." :)

Grantywanty

07-18-07, 11:40 AM

That's just the point of it. You don't want to go on at length so you swear to get the general idea out. That's what I just said. I also see you applying a negative meaning to my choice of the word 'laziness' which it does not have.

Then you should have no problem with 'concision' 'brevity' 'succinctness' 'efficiency'.
Even without the value judgements in laziness, it implies that if one had more energy one would go the full nine yards.
Me, I'm a babbler. I love to talk. Sometimes I do, however, express myself in just a few words. It has nothing to do with my energy levels, focus or lack of ambition.

But I am much more open to your position if the moral stance I inferred from laziness is not a part of it.

And yes I find the whole question of 'how are you' typically annoying and pointless because people give one word answers that mean nothing. I personally don't like saying fine and only say it because I can't very well say nothing in reply.

So a curse word answer is no worse, at the very least, than 'fine' or 'great'?

If someone asks me what it wrong and I say 'my car brokedown', would I also be being 'lazy' in your sense of the word, since I did not mention it was my transmission (or any of a wealth of other possibilities). Can it not be true that the shorter, rather plain and general answer I gave is the perfect answer given our relationship and the situation and so on.

In some contexts single curse words seem appropriate to me. They communicate precisely what I want. Perfectly. In fact to answer more fully would sometimes be misleading. These longer more detailed answers would imply that my reaction to the event was other than it was.

To me using curse words gives sentences nuances that are not found in other sentences without these curse words. I can look at most words and imagine paraphrasing them and adding detail. Curse words are not alone in this.

It is almost as if you think there is a Platonic realm where complete communicative understanding is met and we can or should compare this real world slapdash one to that.

I am still finding it strange. But I am more relaxed about it now.

nietzschefan

07-18-07, 11:55 AM

Why do curses just feel so good? And who says being a gutter mouth is poor speech?

Fuck you John Bannan!

I gotta admit that feels good to type.

John J. Bannan

07-18-07, 03:12 PM

Right back at you!

Benauld

07-18-07, 03:23 PM

Why do curses just feel so good? And who says being a gutter mouth is poor speech?

Because it's taboo... (Man I like that word!) As for the second question at a guess, Society?

SagaciousMind

07-18-07, 06:29 PM

"How are you" is a formality. To paraphrase Loni Anderson, formalities are formalities and that's why we call them that. The formality is not to....

If I ask how someone is I usually actually want to know how they are, not get a 'fine' or 'good, you?'. But I guess that's just me.
But, to the point, what does your statement have to do with cursing? :) And I wasn't the one who brought up the example of '"how are you?" "fine"' in relation to cursing. Maybe you should direct your comment to Grantywanty.

Grantywanty

07-19-07, 03:11 AM

If I ask how someone is I usually actually want to know how they are, not get a 'fine' or 'good, you?'. But I guess that's just me.
But, to the point, what does your statement have to do with cursing? :) And I wasn't the one who brought up the example of '"how are you?" "fine"' in relation to cursing. Maybe you should direct your comment to Grantywanty.

And just to add to the irony: I generally answer that question as if it was a real question. If I am not in a good mood, I say it. If I know them well, they may find a curse word coming back - not directed at them, of course, unless they just ran over my foot.

With people who get used to this directness on my part, I have found that many enjoy just laying out the truth of their own states back at me. If we are walking past each other, often we don't have time, the urge, interest in greater detail.

'Shitty'
'Yeah, me too.'
Two smiles, little bright lights in an otherwise shitty day.

SagaciousMind

07-19-07, 03:24 AM

And just to add to the irony: I generally answer that question as if it was a real question. If I am not in a good mood, I say it. If I know them well, they may find a curse word coming back - not directed at them, of course, unless they just ran over my foot.

With people who get used to this directness on my part, I have found that many enjoy just laying out the truth of their own states back at me. If we are walking past each other, often we don't have time, the urge, interest in greater detail.

'Shitty'
'Yeah, me too.'
Two smiles, little bright lights in an otherwise shitty day.

Haha, I love irony :).

Grantywanty

07-19-07, 06:19 AM

1) We use language to mean things. The words refer to other things.

2) We use language to do things. The word are like tools or moves in a dance.

I can't see restricting language to 1). I assume there is a 3) (and more beyond) but curses strike me at first as working very well in 2).

Fraggle Rocker

07-19-07, 08:44 AM

If I ask how someone is I usually actually want to know how they are, not get a 'fine' or 'good, you?'. But I guess that's just me.It's not just you, but you're certainly in a small, misunderstood minority. People who respond to formalities as if they're meant literally are perceived as iconoclasts. Or perhaps you are an iconoclast, in which case you're not being misunderstood. :)And I wasn't the one who brought up the example of '"how are you?" "fine"' in relation to cursing. Maybe you should direct your comment to Grantywanty.My bad. Guess I got tangled up in the quote links.And just to add to the irony: I generally answer that question as if it was a real question. If I am not in a good mood, I say it. If I know them well, they may find a curse word coming back - not directed at them, of course, unless they just ran over my foot. With people who get used to this directness on my part, I have found that many enjoy just laying out the truth of their own states back at me. If we are walking past each other, often we don't have time, the urge, interest in greater detail. -- 'Shitty' -- 'Yeah, me too.' -- Two smiles, little bright lights in an otherwise shitty day.So you've adapted the formality of greeting to your own community, your own "virtual pack mates." It still serves its primary purpose of reassuring each other that you're still willing partners in civilization even though you didn't wake up in the same cave.1) We use language to mean things. The words refer to other things. 2) We use language to do things. The word are like tools or moves in a dance. I can't see restricting language to 1). I assume there is a 3) (and more beyond) but curses strike me at first as working very well in 2).I would say that primarily we use language to communicate with other people, and that encompasses all of these things. It's a multiple-order of magnitude improvement over gestures, grunts, and all other non-verbal communication. In my opinion language is the key technology which advanced us so far beyond the rest of the animal kingdom. Some linguists suggest that it was the technology which allowed us to plan and successfully execute the diaspora out of Africa.

But it also serves another purpose that has nothing to do with other people. I'm not sure what to call it: blowing off steam, expressing our feelings to the universe, I suppose the religiously-minded would classify it as "communication" with their gods. Cursing especially falls into this category, just yelling, "Oh crap," or something stronger, in an empty room, when Windows destroys your document or you drop an anvil on your foot. A lot of people sing to themselves. Quite a few people write poetry that they never intend to share with anyone. Many of us talk to our pets, knowing full well that they only understand half a dozen words. We use language in a way that has nothing to do with communication. In this context, I've always felt that we are a little too hard on people who walk around talking to themselves in public. It's not that far removed from our own behaviors. They may be distracted and a little weak on etiquette, but I don't think they're necessarily crazy.

As I said in another discussion, the Department of Mental Health should simply give each one of them a cellphone headset--a discard from the landfill that doesn't work--and they'll suddenly be perfectly normal. :)

Grantywanty

07-20-07, 04:28 AM

.So you've adapted the formality of greeting to your own community, your own "virtual pack mates." It still serves its primary purpose of reassuring each other that you're still willing partners in civilization even though you didn't wake up in the same cave.

No, it's more than that. It has become a real question. Yes, passing quickly it looks similar, but negative and positive and neutral responses have meaning related to emotional states. When it is not in passing, when we have a minute or more, it is the opening of a real honest expression of that state and from there perhaps analysis, shared mulling, suggestions, problem solving, support etc.

But it also serves another purpose that has nothing to do with other people. I'm not sure what to call it: blowing off steam, expressing our feelings to the universe, I suppose the religiously-minded would classify it as "communication" with their gods. Cursing especially falls into this category, just yelling, "Oh crap," or something stronger, in an empty room, when Windows destroys your document or you drop an anvil on your foot.

I see cursing a potentially much more refined tool and not limited to the uses you are saying here. A very simple example: I come home from work. My wife asks me how the day was. I say 'Shitty' and coupled with my body language she knows: 1) I had a real bad day 2) I don't want to talk about it now. 3) Give me some space for a while.

On another day I come home. I answer with the same word, but tone has a hint of a whine. My body language is more open. She knows: 1) I had a bad day. 2) I want to talk about it. 3) I want her to ask questions.

I could even take the body language differences out because she can tell the difference from another room. (And I can in relation to her.)

And 'shitty' 'it sucked' 'SOS' and other signifying short phrases convey different things, just like other words do.

This is a simple example, but for me it points out that curses can be effective parts of speech (or writing).

Many of us talk to our pets, knowing full well that they only understand half a dozen words. We use language in a way that has nothing to do with communication.

I disagree. We are addicted to word thinking and communication. To speak on topic to an animal aligns our tone of voice and body language in ways that can be picked up by animals. (I also had a dog that could recognize and react separately to about 1 hundred words, so he, at least, might also get a few direct linguistic clues). I am sure one could substitute other words - like praise the dog while expressing in content distaste for racism - but I think it would be a struggle. I see the use of words in this context as a way of deepening the expressive non-word communication from our side.

In this context, I've always felt that we are a little too hard on people who walk around talking to themselves in public. It's not that far removed from our own behaviors. They may be distracted and a little weak on etiquette, but I don't think they're necessarily crazy.

I agree. They are simply doing out loud what we all do mentally and/or subvocally.

As I said in another discussion, the Department of Mental Health should simply give each one of them a cellphone headset--a discard from the landfill that doesn't work--and they'll suddenly be perfectly normal.

Since people do not seem to mind my hearing them talking into their cellphones about their bosses, their boy/girlfriends, their herpes, their..... and this list goes on, I have started to think of the situation as: the phone is an excuse to share with the community. It is the person on the other end of the line who is extraneous.

whitewolf

07-22-07, 12:54 AM

I glanced through this thread and it appears you've all missed another aspect of cursing. Curses are used in humorous speech as well. We curse not only in distress, but in a good mood also.

I have always said this and I'll repeat again. In order to fully master a language, in order to be in charge of the words you say and not the other way around, you must be eloquent in all forms of language: literary, speech, and cursing.

Grantywanty

07-23-07, 04:21 AM

, body language, thinking sounds (um, er...), and more...

peta9

07-23-07, 06:45 AM

I used to speak so nicely and politely to everyone and nobody LISTENED. I, ripley's believe it or not, never cursed and was puzzled why others do it. Even if I had a valid point or something to offer because I wasn't physically animated or posturing I was discounted or ignored. Strange but true. Then I realized in this egoist society the best way to be heard was to get thier attention through it. Because everyone has it and a few curse words here and there will get thier attention quick, they may not have been interested in what you had to say but they will end up hearing you just because they are listening out for a dent in thier 'ego' and what makes them 'stupid' as you claimed.

I remember that line in Star Trek where Shatner says something to the tune of "It's a primitive and paranoid society. If you don't curse every other word, they just don't listen to you here." I guess he was onto something. I guess I learned it from dealing with people on a day to day basis. I should work on my manners again though but it seems to hold true a lot of the times, it's just more effective when dealing with assholes as that's the only language they respect, aggressive. The problem is you can end up insulting or hurting the feelings of someone who didn't deserve it or wasn't trying to be deceptive. It's a bad habit I've got to break, I'm really not a mean person at heart.:D

Grantywanty

07-23-07, 06:51 AM

It's a bad habit I've got to break, I'm really not a mean person at heart.:D

I found your story interesting. I do wonder if perhaps when you, as an individual curse, it allows you to express yourself more forcefully. Not simply the word itself, but perhaps your feelings, which you normally ALSO restrain when communicating, are more likely to be expressed when you curse.

I toss this theory out because, while I do curse, most of the time I don't have trouble getting someone to take me seriously. (this includes humourous use of curses in speech.) I tend not curse with people I don't know unless they've really crossed a line. I can remember of course switching to a pointed sentence with a curse when nothing was getting through, but this is rare.

peta9

07-23-07, 07:01 AM

I found your story interesting. I do wonder if perhaps when you, as an individual curse, it allows you to express yourself more forcefully. Not simply the word itself, but perhaps your feelings, which you normally ALSO restrain when communicating, are more likely to be expressed when you curse.

I toss this theory out because, while I do curse, most of the time I don't have trouble getting someone to take me seriously. (this includes humourous use of curses in speech.) I tend not curse with people I don't know unless they've really crossed a line. I can remember of course switching to a pointed sentence with a curse when nothing was getting through, but this is rare.

I've noticed at least in america, unless you are conversing within a most thoughtful and open-minded group, your kindness or politeness is often taken for weakness even in speech. When you are dealing with the general public, need to affect an action, or defend yourself you do have to put some force or seriousness into your speech. People tend to not to listen to what you say as much as read your body language and presence and conclude your intent as serious or not. I've also noticed that larger males tend to not have this problem but for a female especially younger it is, the erroneous perception of pecking order and that the younger have less knowledge or insight. Hence, I think that was a way of compensating not for my lack but for society's perceptions.

Grantywanty

07-23-07, 09:32 AM

Hence, I think that was a way of compensating not for my lack but for society's perceptions.

All well said.

But then aren't you wandering into other areas of being judged being a young female who curses. I know a lot of americans - it sounds like there are quite a number in this thread - who would disregard what you say BECAUSE you cursed. And then there are others who would not think it was OK for a woman to curse while accepting it in a man.

I am not trying to say your interpretation for why this works is not true, but I still get the impression that it is not simply the use of curse words that is getting you listened to now. That certain individuals might now listen, sure. But that in general this strategy is working makes me think other things are going on as well, because curses alone as an addition, especially for a woman, would seem to open some ears but close at least as many.