Two stupid questions: (There are no stupid questions, only stupid people who ask them Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image!) When light encounters a black hole, what exactly happens? Is it bent so severely by the gravitational field that the photons cannot escape? My second question is, does a gravitational field that does this violate relativity theory? I thought that nothing could exceed the speed of light, but here is somthing stronger than the speed of light.....
"My second question is, does a gravitational field that does this violate relativity theory? I thought that nothing could exceed the speed of light, but here is somthing stronger than the speed of light....." it is said that their velocity changes, so no violation of relativity the second part i don't get: force <--> speed of light ... doesn't make sense besides, many people here will start telling you about space curvature here photons follow the shortest way there is no force involved
Light, which is comprised of photons, follows geodesic paths; ie straight lines. Massive objects such as black holes bend the space around it such that the paths, or straight lines the photons travel, are bent so severely they are warped back towards the mass and wrapped around it. Hence the photons travel these paths back towards the mass. This does not violate any laws because the photons are still traveling at c.
There are no stupid questions, only stupid answers. Courts out on that one, Q's answer is a good one, as is C'est Moi's, except that a force is involved. That's right. I'll go aginst the grain here, inside the event horizon of a black hole Relativity is probably violated. Is this a problem, no! In the same way that Einstein supplants Newton in extreme cases, a newer theory will supplant Einstein. Hopefully it will explain the guts of black holes.
Xev, To answer your second question, if light had an infinite mass, and if it travelled at the speed of light at the same time, nothing could stop it. Not even black holes. But, light does not have infinite mass. The mass of a particle of light is very small(some people on this board will tell you that light has no mass), so the gravity from a blackhole can curve lights path even though it travels at such a high speed. Tom
some people on this board will tell you that light has no mass Others will tell you light has mass, however when questioned as to where this mass is and what happens to it, cannot account for said mass.
Tom If I am following your argument, light takes a curved path in a gravitational field beacuse it has mass, that mass is extremely small. So what of larger masses? That is, by your reasoning a larger mass will take a more curved path in the same gravitational field, yes? If so, that would give a severely different spectrophraphic signature as larger mass objects would be accelerated more. So why is this not seen?
Light can be thought of as both photons and waves, right? Photons do not have mass, correct? Neither do waves, correct? So, light does not have mass. But energy and mass are interrelated.....and light is energy, for it is radiation..... Thanks, c'est moi, Q, Thed and Joe. That clears a lot up for me.
Thed, "If I am following your argument, light takes a curved path in a gravitational field beacuse it has mass, that mass is extremely small. So what of larger masses? That is, by your reasoning a larger mass will take a more curved path in the same gravitational field, yes? If so, that would give a severely different spectrophraphic signature as larger mass objects would be accelerated more. So why is this not seen?" You surprise me. I thought you knew this!!! The answer is: Because the mass in the acceleration formula eliminates the mass in the force formula. That is why all mass accelerates at the same rate towards Earth. Thed, this is elementary school physics. If you still don't understand, I can show you the formulas. Tom
Xev, You have to consider that we are discussing particle physics. Particle physics is still mostly theoretical. You can't touch and feel a particle of light or an electron, you have to measure them indirectly most of the time. These indirect measurements are one of the reasons that there are so many different theories regarding subatomic particles. The true answer is that we don't know, we are just making educated guesses.Please Register or Log in to view the hidden image! Tom
Tom you are delibrately obfuscating. Just answer the question, does a larger mass see a larger curvature of spacetime?
Thed, No it does not Force=g*mass1*mass2/d^2 A of mass2=Force/mass2 When you replace "Force" in the second equation with "g*mass1*mass2/d^2" You get : A of mass2=g*mass1/d^2 As you can see, mass2 is eliminated from the formula. In other words, acceleration is NOT dependent on mass2 Tom
Xev, Maybe it does, but in the previous post I was describing mass that is moving much slower than c. Tom
Tom But we are not talking about acceleration. Does a larger mass cause more curvature of spacetime, than a smaller mass? Yes or no.
Q, I apoligize that I didn't answer your question, but I'm being bombarded by questions from all sides. So, what does happen to the mass of a photon... I'm not sure, under certain circumstances the photon would bounce of the particle keeping it's mass intact. At other times, it might be absorbed by the particle and the mass of the photon gets added to the mass of the particle. Or there's absorption, but the photons mass gets converted to energy. I'm really not sure. I never thought about it.
Thed, I DO NOT believe in the curvature of space. No mass can cause the space to curve. What you call curvature, I see as the result of gravitational force, and inertia. Tom
Xev, Some of the previous responses are confusing. Black holes are a creature of relativity, and so can only be explained in the context of relativity. Newtonian explanations do not apply. The spacetime both inside and outside a black hole is well described by general relativity. What happens inside the event horizon of a black hole is that all possible trajectories in spacetime, for every particle and for light, lead to the singularity at the centre of the hole. Once you're inside the event horizon, you <i>must</i> hit the singularity. In fact, no outwards radial motion is possible due to the extreme warping of spacetime. Light still travels at its normal speed, but its path through spacetime becomes constrained by the geometry of the hole so that it (along with everything else) cannot escape once it crosses the event horizon.
Xev, Be carefull!! Some of the people on this board believe that theoretical physics and real physics are the same thing. You can recognize these people by their attempt to illustrate that they know everything(like what's inside a blackhole). Tom